Karina's "dating scandal" and the issue with Parasocial Relationships
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- čas přidán 8. 03. 2024
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Some sources talking about the situation further:
www.independent.co.uk/asia/ea...
www.republicworld.com/enterta...
www.koreaboo.com/news/netizen...
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#kpop #aespa #karina - Krátké a kreslené filmy
when taejiu comes back from hiatus you know it’s serious
fr
Can we talk about the lesbian gg Stan’s who where mad cause she wasn’t gay tho 💀 Like that is crazy
it was so sad because they made a bad name for the other lesbian stans who supported her.... and unfortunately, because of the generalisation, it caused a bunch of lesphobia and it was quite triggering to see honestly
@@loverlutionAnd a lot of lesbian fans joked about her being gay, and they were also verrry blindsided by the fact that some of these fans were actually delusional and not just messing around.
@@gemmamoon5998 regardless, i think this generalisation is quite harmful tbh. what about when a male idol has a girlfriend and a lot of straight female fans are quite upset? i don't see people going around saying stuff like: look at all the straight people being mad and delusional etc
I'm obviously not condoning this behaviour at all. But we need to seriously check our wordings because targeting a minority like this is going to do more harm towards the lesbian community, a minority group already oppressed in society.
gay shipping is weird in kpop when it’s taken so seriously, the only gay couple i believe in is Yves & Chuu, and twices 2Yeon. People who are genuinely mad need to grow up.
As a lesbian, I apologise on behalf of those delusional people. Of course, not all of us Karina fans are like that. Lots of lesbian fans, including me, support her love life. She's free to date who she wishes. It's just there will be delulu people everywhere.
The fact that K-Netz are calling Karina an embarrasment for THEIR reaction to Karina dating is sending me. Like we've lost the plot
Poor Karina. All this girl did was date a man and people got offended for what reason?? Because she “betrayed them” it’s not even embarrassing like atp it’s straight up creepy that these people are so into her sexuality or life in general. To just assume she’s a lesbian or to think that she’s betraying fans is just gross. We are fans. Not friends. We do not cross that border because it’s not our business. People need to grow up for real.
Being lesbian is not gross 🙄
@@frvrrr7 No, it’s not, but assuming someone is a lesbian is gross. Especially when some fans came up with this fantasy and got mad at her when they found out she was dating a man.
@@frvrrr7 learn how to read,oh no ,you can read but you lack f*cking comprehension skills
before this video even drops, i want to say that this “scandal” is perfect evidence that the community/industry has not changed in the slightest in regards to humanizing idols, and even a good portion of the fans who claim to be above this kind of behavior really aren’t
excited to hear your commentary as always!!!
I'm a lesbian and these unhinged "lesbian" fans pissed me off so badly. These people make lesbian fans look bad and these people put us at risk of now being hated within the fandom. This is extremely unsafe. I don't feel safe now. Please let any idol date whoever they want to date. As a real queer person you should be the FIRST person to understand this.
For real!!
never put the blame of homophobia on queers, yes they did wrong, that does not allow people to be homophobic. And kpop fans where already homophobic, as a queer person you dont need to do anything for people to hate you. And when you do, the hate is not because you deserve it, they where just looking for an excuse to explain why they are homophobic. It's respectability politics, lets all act well because we represent a community. But we are not a monolith, there are boy delulus and straight girls delulus, as they say: be gay do crime because your sexuality should never be of define. People should just stop being homophobic cause there is no way straight man are the ones actually sending trucks and menaces to karina but the ones everyone is talking about are the lesbians on the internet crying over her.
btw i’m in different fandoms and lesbians LITERALLY do the same thing. they headcanon the most straightest mf of being a lesbian and then proceed to CRY and make delusional takes when she starts dating a man. they’re so pathetic and make us look weird and desperate. they act like there’s no actual queer artists to support instead of obsessing over a straight woman bc she fits their standards.
Being mad at lesbians doesn't make ppl homophobic. Ppl have every right to be mad at queers for doing stuff they tell us not to do, assuming sexuality and hating ppl bc of who they love. I'm not on other platforms but so far no one has been terribly disrespectful on CZcams. @@natalipoland4482
Yes the community was a part of it but blaming it all on the community is wrong. Most bl shippers have always been straight girls and it's the same thing here. Just open one of their comment section and every comment is like "I'm so gay for you karinaa".. I didn't expect this from a queer person.. yes some of the community is part of it but it's not just the community!!
The fact Zach sang talked about it is insane, we’ve lost the plot
When
@@lamamohammed226 oh his channel
He was actually the first channel I found out from
@@lamamohammed226 "Karina from Aespa apologies for having a boyfriend"
the wildest thing is those people who are like "karina is making us look bad by apologizing!" like ok maybe you shouldnt have sent protest trucks and demanded and apology from a popstar for daring to have a personal life
also there's this thing of kpop fans projecting sexualities on idols . like there were a lot of her own fans who were upset she wasn't gay.
kpop fans has a serious issue of projecting their sexuality fetish on idols and i find that very weird
and then call you homophobic when you call them out on that behavior 🙃
Right. And it’s weird how they do it based off how they look. Like idols like Wheein or Ryujin who aren’t girlish are automatically lesbian or pretty guys like Hyujin or Sunoo are automatically gay.. Let the idols come out themselves, not force a sexuality onto them.
@@aeeeeeeeecid don't get me started on male + male pairings...The disgusting art on Pinterest, tiktok, X, etc. is so crude and disrespectful and you can tell it is not from an "innocent shipping" perspective, it's just from lust. And I kinda get a huge kick out of the reactions of people finding out the "Gayest member" has a wife or even has children.
@@jiroanmatesanething7295 Ohh yeah those are terrible, especially if they are actually groupmates..And like you said, it’s not even the ship were they are as friends or brothers/sisters, all purely from their own lust and desires..
It's actually scary how speculating and assuming a celebrity's sexuality (and gender identity) is very normalized. Whether it's ''this idol is definitely straight'' or ''this idol is definitely gay'', it's all very weird. Someone's sexuality is no one's business and to invade their privacy like that is disgusting behavior and could even be dangerous.
This is a recurring issue that happens in the Kpop community and it needs to stop. These idols have lives and shouldn’t be scrutinized ans have to apologize for dating, marrying, having kids, etc. MYs were literally saying stuff like “praying this relationship doesn’t last” and I’m like… First off, you don’t own her and she is not for you to feed your own fantasies. Second, stop projecting sexualities onto idols. Not only is it weird, but it’s very disrespectful. Even another idol is currently being hated on for secretly having a wife and kids. This needs to stop.
0:30 this is actually some psychopath level shit 💀 these people are so insanely delusional to think that Karina owes them anything like I can’t get over how crazy and sad this is. I hope Karina doesn’t think about it too much and continues to pursue what makes her happy instead of listening to these batshit insane “fans”.
i really want to know what kind of person comes up with something like that. How does anyone dating betray their fans? What love? WHAT IS GOING ON INSIDE THEIR HEAD?
Yeah like its good its getting into western media but also its embarrassing because i KNOW haters of kpop are going to use this as a way to say we are all these crazy obsessed kids who think theyre datig the idols when while yes a few of us are that way not even close to all of us are
But can you blame them though? People always say stupid things about kpop Stan being child and even though it's make me made I can't really blame them when at least half of the fandome act like one
you really can't blame them though... i'd argue that close to half of the fans act in really fucking ridiculous ways. i'm an adult fan and do not care to ascribe to any fandom bc of how annoying fanbases are.
@@hamilcross yeah only fandom name I really call myself are the calm fandoms like seventeens, a.c.e's, etc otherwise I tell hardly anyone I'm a fan of them lol
These parasocial relationship are so disgusting and weird. I've been studying Korean for 6 years and when I read that protest truck, it looked like a deranged fan wrote the message on it. It looked like someone truly losing it. Karina should NOT have to apologize for falling in love. The idol industry profits and benefits HEAVILY on parasocial relationships and making fans feel as if they can legitimately date them. OWN them, even. By relying so heavily on these types of relationships, it contributes heavily to stalking and just overall entitlement from the fan bases.
It also helps to contribute to the mental illnesses of people who are so far into these parasocial relationships (Not bashing anyone with mental illnesses as I have them too). I can't tell you how happy I was when I found out that Karina's in a relationship. SO happy, SO grateful for her. I love her so much and I'm so happy for her. Unfortunately, a LOT of "fans" are proving that they couldn't care less about her and just want to own her as if she's a toy. Like she doesn't have any actual feelings or her own desires.
The people who send protest trucks to idol companies for the stupidest of reasons, convince themselves that they have a chance with these idols, convince themselves that these idols know them when they have no idea who they even are, convince themselves that Karina's a lesbian for the most strange, minute, miniscule reasons and say horrible thing's about her because she "Ruined their fantasy"...I feel like these people live in their own little world. They don't live in the real, actual world. There's just no way they can. These are truly empty, lonely people and Kpop and these idols that they're so fixated on is all they have in their lives that give them some semblance of joy. There's a loneliness and emptiness that they feel deep within their souls that they believe only these idols can fill. They base EVERYTHING that they are and their entire BEING on these idols and what they believe these idols think about them based upon their actions and doing something as normal as dating. And so that leads them to form an obsession.
Karina's such a sweet, wonderful, beautiful soul and I have the biggest crush on her BUT I know that I'll never have her because um, I'm not delusional and I respect this woman. Just like I respect every other idol. We don't know these people and we just need to accept that. We need to start respecting these people because they bust their asses for US and we disrespect the shit out of them in return. The idol industry has themselves to blame for why "dating scandals" are such a headache to deal with. I love Karina and I'm so happy that she's happy 💞💞💞💞💞
As a Korean this is spot on. Parasocial relationships are no different to paying for onlyfans. I understand it’s how money is made in the industry but it’s a disgusting culture that needs to go. Americans would laugh at this idea. American celeb culture is not perfect but it’s far more reasonable than that of Korea. Like you don’t see American fans get mad at Taylor Swift, or Harry Styles or Zayn for dating.
@johnpark7972 I've been trying to write a response to you but CZcams hates my guts, for some reason, and refuses to let me post it. So I'll just say that I absolutely agree with what you're saying and that I think that deep down inside, companies secretly wish that these idols could just date freely like western celebrities because all of the stalking this and written apologies that and just all the drama that comes with it has got to be a massive headache for these companies. I bet they wish things could just be normal. But at the end of the day, the only thing they seem to care about is making as much money as possible and if they have to endure brain-crushing headaches from their greed and lack of self-awareness in order to make more and more money, then so be it.
I am so sorry for Karina, I am afraid she won't be the same again. The series of events that happened with Karina's dating case is not a surprise. protest trucks -> apology letter -> overseas media notice, and now what? everyone knows how K-pop is built on parasocial relationships and fandom is possessive of idols.
This is how K-pop has been for quite some time, and I don't think it will change even if it changes it takes time, at least one generation of K-pop for it to change.
There is a comment under another video (from Nabi core) on the same topic.
They said:" why can't idols pretend to like someone of the same sex to make us happy? We as a community struggle a lot already and why can't they do it for us?"
Those kinds of thoughts are unhinged. I and other reasonable people and other queer commenters don't agree with it
How is it normal to think that a person should possibly do something that is uncomfortable for them only to satisfy someone's desires.
Karina is a person first of all. Not a fantasy
Omg I know which comment you’re talking about!!! As much as the lgbtq+ community suffers, it’s gonna sound bad but she literally owes them NOTHING. If anything this is doing more harm than anything to the community.
The gay accusations are crazy... Because there really will be some gay idols. But clearly they don't want to be out in public, and that's *their business*. Can you imagine the mental health issues that could arise from people constantly accusing you of being gay, when you are closeted?
Frrr
As long as it's fan service, everybody's going to be okay
(They're hypocritical like that)
But not if it's real
In that case, majority of people and their momma are going to tear the idol to shreds
As her fan, i was so happy when i found she was dating him because he was so cute around her in that prada show but i was also kind of anxious about the public reaction.
I still think people have mostly been supportive and others have been saying that her chinese fans sent the trucks but that isn't true since her china bar started a whole project in support of her. My guess is that an extremely rich minority of korean fans did thw truck thing and sm made her apologize. Basically f sm and those weirdos who sent the truck. I just dont understand why korean people are so against their own people.
Literally… I really wish someone could ban protest trucks since as of late, “ fans “ have been taking advantage of it, and it has been doing more harm than good :( I really hope they aren’t facing too many hardships within their relationship rn. It’s insane how only dating could create this big of a reaction really
As a Korean this is spot on. Parasocial relationships are no different to paying for onlyfans. I understand it’s how money is made in the industry but it’s a disgusting culture that needs to go. Americans would laugh at this idea. American celeb culture is not perfect but it’s far more reasonable than that of Korea. Like you don’t see American fans get mad at Taylor Swift, or Harry Styles or Zayn for dating.
It's not actually a scandal, she's just dating someone.
The fact that these things are called "scandals" is ridiculous in the first place.
It is a scandal because it’s 4 years in her career and if the fans was going to know before the news come out they would have supported her
@@vim2339 It's still ridiculous to call it a "scandal." Dating is a normal, healthy adult behavior. The problem is not Karina, it's not Lee Jae-wook, it's not even Dispatch - it's idol culture. The fact that something as normal as dating can be considered a "scandal" is a damning portrait of what the industry has bred fans to expect from celebrities.
The Karina situation and now the Hyeri/Sohee situation has proved that kpop/kdrama fans are not mature enough to handle news of their favorite celebrities dating. Fans are too invested in these people's personal lives and are convinced they know what's best for them, when in reality, they don't know anything about them beyond what's been selectively shown online.
as a longtime kpop fans its so sad and frustrating everytime a dating news broke out we have to witness the toxic cycle of so called "fans" crying of betrayal and then idols apologizing for "commiting the greatest sin" aka falling in love like a normal human being. Its just suck because suddenly being an idol means you cant have the right to love. The more i witness so many crazy ridiculous behaviours and audacity of some kpop stans the more i m aware and detached myself from some kpop marketings of forming parasocial relationships and the marketing of boyfriend girlfriend materialization of kpop idols. This topic and issue has been one im the most interested of about kpop and always wanted to see more of this discussion, so im glad that you - one of the ktubers has made a video about it. thank you for taking time making it and i enjoy it.
While I wish Karina didn’t have everyone’s eyes on her for just having a relationship, I’m kinda glad that people outside of K-pop are looking at this and giving the fans and the community a reality check over how STUPID we are behaving and how ridiculous it is to even call this a scandal. I hope Karina stays with Jae and that they prove to the community that they don’t own them and their personal lives.
The thing is these fans don’t treat wlw or mlm relationships as real relationships, they think that being gay is just getting touchy with the same gender or making flirty comments that are probably a throw away joke. A lot of guys think wlw is just two straight girls “experimenting” whilst they’re drunk or something, only to go back to their boyfriends the next morning. This does more harm for the community than good, it feels invalidating to actual lgbtq people and also gives us a bad reputation.
Exactly. It's why these same stans don't even care for openly gay artists. All of a sudden their little "fantasy" is shattered.
@@hope3290 it’s like it’s a competition for who is gayer. I always see K-pop stans saying x group is the gayest and trying to one up each other. It’s a different group each time as well
For clarification (not that this negates anything you said):
The Korean word 스캔들 (scandal) holds a different meaning to the english word, “scandal”. In Korean, people use the word to more or less refer to an important or interesting event (like a breakthrough news story).
So when you see a Korean article that translates 스캔들 to “scandal”, it’s (most likely) not actually an event worthy of outrage as the english definition would suggest.
The kpop fan culture is really toxic, I think it's mostly because the vast majority of fans are very young and just post things without really thinking about what they're saying, and haven't learned enough about life to look at the business objectively, but as long as we love the music and respect the artists we are promoting a positive view and culture that hopefully others will listen to
These labels should be held just as liable as the crazed fans, they exacerbate parasocial relationships for the idols because they WANT YOUR MONEY. It's bad for everyone in the equation (idols and fans) except for these labels raking in the cash and dealing with none of the backlash or fall out. It's infuriating when I see ALL of the blame fall on the said fans, when these labels continue to add fuel the fire and take advantage of vulnerable people looking for connections and community. Like 2 things can be true at the same time. It's a complex issue where I'm tired of it being boiled down as black or white. My commentary is in no way a defense of said fans who act in an unhinged manner, I'm just saying that said behavior is VERY much fostered and accepted by the industry. Even as idols get stalked, abused and killed over the years.. nothing changes. SM is complicit and exploiting both Karina and her fans.
It even was on the national news of the netherlands
I’m glad it broke out outside Korea and made it to the western media so the delulu fans can get a reality check.
While this whole situation is honestly BONKERS, simply absurd and I really feel for Karina for dealing with this mess... I also would like to let you know that it was so cool to see your video pop up in my sub section; I'm genuinely looking forward your yt comeback whenever you're ready!!
Was wanting for you!! this scandal shows we still are same but we just like to show as a community that we changed and fans are so egoistical(future video plug lol) that since they buy something from an idol they want something in return and that’s there delulu land of wanting the fantasy of them to be their gf or bf even in the way bubble works it complies to that fact and now that delulu breaks they go
c-r-a-z-y Modu da michyeo
i don’t even know why people are interested in people’s sexuality just by clips i feel ryujin from itzy is also kinda put into a similar bracket which is sad
The part that make less sense, for me, is if you like / admire someone is more normal to wish for their happynes then for their hardship.
I found some knets comments weird, like calling HER out for posting the apology for making her fans and the korean industry look crazy
I saw a comment from a K-netz that compared this situation with Taylor Swift saying how her fans were so happy when she was dating Travis Kelcie while Karina's fans were against it. It got a lot of positive up-votes but there was a rebuttal that got a lot of up-votes too, saying the comparison is dumb because Taylor Swift is a professional singer who runs her career like a businesswoman while Karina is an idol who sings, dances and smiles at her companies' wishes. I've seen other comments saying that she's an idol, so she should expect this. If she was a ballad singer, she wouldn't be getting this.
@@MrSuperjam789 i know the comment ypu are talking about, its insane
As much as I have liked an idol, actor or even influencer I never got mad when they dated or were married to someone because I knew there was never a chance of us being together anyways. That's why I find these people to be so sad and unhinged. People who actually have stuff going on in their lives and actually have plans for the future don't act like this. I wouldn't be mad at a celebrity for not being single because I plan to find someone meant for me who I don't have to watch from a distance. These people just want to play pretend wife all day with someone who doesn't know them.
It’s like people who ships hyunlix if they start dating I’m scared for the person
Been listening to kpop for more than 10 years and it's baffling to me that this is still an issue...
Taejiu just wanna say I rlly appreciate the fact that you keep uploading despite your hectic schedule. Love listening to your thoughts on Kpop matters haha, helps me and others out here get more perspective on things.
Insatnces like this anger me but then i remember thats how the industry works .
Also many fans praise their idols for doing the bare minimum
Honestly I’m not attracted to woman at all, but I’m a ggStan. So seeing so many people get outraged that karina is dating someone actually got me so shocked.
She's being covered on western news soo much and people I follow who've never had anything to do with kpop even talked about it. The international coverage makes me think this is somewhat a marketing strategy? If so, it really worked but still a very weird thing
I've always found this parasocial relationship thing between idols and fans so fucking creepy. Like can you imagine having to APOLOGIZE to a bunch of people you don't even know just because you FELT INTERESTED FOR SOMEONE ELSE?? I get so mad when I see shit like this in kpop, these entitled "fans" gotta go look for a job and leave the idols alone cause this is getting ridiculous, and I'm glad more people are talking about it and realizing how unacceptable it is to ruin someone's relationship just bc you build this fanfiction in your head with that person. WAKE UP!!
Some people say that because they wanted to date this idol so they act like that, but I don't think they noticed that if they ever got to date this idol, they'll most likely not like the fans doing what they do with them
I've come across really delulu fans who are literally writing wattpad novels that south Korea is using karina and jaewook relationship as a distraction from their political issues 😂🤣 like they just cannot accept that their idols could actually be dating so they come up with these absurd theories that the Korean president himself chose karina personally to use as a distraction 😂
Ah youre back! Welcome back! And i hate that karina "needed" to apologize for being in love and happy! Like wtf? Who cares shes a human being as is he! I hope theyre both ok!
Honestly if they're real fans and good people they would have compassion for their idols. Why be mad at Karina for dating? Like i'm sure many fans have a crush on her but if your crush irl started dating somone else, or you were rejected. Be mature and don't mind it, be happy for them, move on, life goes on, you'll be ok.
Most fans have compassion when it comes to their strict dieting and long training hours. We know they're human and they have to eat, drink and sleep too but they can't when they're in a brutal enviroment. But you can't find it in your heart to have compassion that they too hear love songs all the time and wonder what it's actually like? You're the brutal enviroment.
If Karina apologizes for having a relationship then I apologize for existing, I apologize for stepping on the germs while I am walking....She is a talented leader and she should be given the freedom....🙂As fans we want to see her happy no matter the situation.....I am a aespa fan MAN....
Karina's 'apology' is classic sorry-not sorry. As a casual American Kpop fan for 15 years, I'm excited about the (painfully slow) changes I've seen in the last few years. With success comes scrutiny. To me, the toxic stans are a symptom of the corporate feudalism at the heart of Kpop. Support Karina, support Aran, Sio and Saena, support BP solos, support Hyuna, support 20+ year old idols, support progressive companies and groups. Stick it to the system.
Dating scandal aside, this was not the first time it happened. This has happened over and over again, because that’s the whole selling point of Kpop itself, they somehow make the idols seemed available for you (in whatever capacity you want them to be) to entice you to support them. A little bit off track, but company especially as big as SM, they would have known if their idol is caught in any kind of scandal and they could have easily spend some money to have it shut down. The fact that they don’t and knowing SM history with dealing with scandal coupled with the mass exodus of SM older artists, it is not hard to tell that some bigger story is coming out very soon probably.
P.S.: I found it very terrible that some people believe that Karina is lesbian and attack her now because apparently she is not. First thing, Korea is a very conservative country and in general, being anything but straight affects your career in bad manner. There is a reason why we don’t have any idols (at least from major companies) coming out even though statistically we are sure there should be some. We must remember that all of these idols sacrifice literally almost everything to train, to be where they are today. They will not jeopardise it by coming out.
At first, I`m glad you are back and second, I`m also kinda glad that this scandal left the kpop bubble because now we kpop stans have to feel embarrassed how we behave and i think it`s time to finally feel this way. it`s embarrassing how we overreact with stuff like this, how we never like seeing someone being happy, how we always act childish etc. I think we need this embarrassment now to know it better next time. Hopefully.
I'm shaking my head thinking how something like this will never really change from both a human nature perspective and how our hyper consumerist culture capitalizes off of unrequited desires with kpop being no exception. As someone who's had a few celebrity crushes in the past (and yeah, I'll admit to having a bit of a crush on Karina too, lol), I think the key to cultural change would be to somehow find healthy outlets for people to grieve gracefully en masse.
Since I tend to think of grief becoming a relevant part to the human condition whenever cognitive dissonance comes into play (the reality that I desire doesn't mix with the reality that is), and when part of a kpop product is to kind of sell a kind of "fantasy" depending on how the consumer sees it, it's that tipping point from the stage of denial to anger when such people realize that the personal fantasy is crushed. I feel like we as a society would have to help younger generations find humility in accepting how we can't always have what we desire or $#!+ like this will continue.
SME, you just lost Taemin. The EXO members are also looking towards leaving. And Sunny left recently. You do NOT want to lose Taeyeon. Learn from how you neglected to protect her. If you don’t, she’s going to leave.
Taeyeon’s been very open about not wanting her future child(ren) to enter the entertainment industry (especially if she has a daughter). Seeing Karina experiencing what she’d wan to protect her own children from is going to make her furious. And I don’t know about you, but I wouldn’t want to stick around when a company does that.
Here's a timeline of my reactions on this:
*Karina and Lee Jaewook are dating*
Me: Huh... i wonder how long this is going to last, but I'm happy for her.
*Jaewook threatens to sue fans for malicious comments on his socials*
Me: it hasn't been a week since this announcement has marinated and people are already starting bullshit.
*Karina posts an apology on her insta for dating*
Me: ... disappointed but not surprised.
I mean, this is not the first time stuff like this has happened. It happened to Hyuna and Dawn. It happened to Chen. And it happened to Taeyeon and Baekhyun. It happened to Bobby. Heck, it even happened to IU.
Me personally, i want to see these idols in relationships. I wanna see them be with someone who makes them happy. I can never imagine myself being a y/n in their lives coz cringe.
I hate that CZcams doesn't allow gifs because I'd give this video a virtual standing ovation if I could. You'll just have to imagine it I guess. 😂
Good to see you back! Hope the time off was enjoyable and refreshing.
The number of people saying they were devestated by this (looking at kpop fanfic enjoyers) was just astounding. The delusions... People need to separate fantasy from reality. Let Karina (and other idols) live her life
I don't think the issue is parasocial relationships. It's the specific expectations around sexuality and dating that caused this. People have really parasocial relationships with vloggers as well, but those relationships are rarely oriented around potential dating fantasies. I think categorizing this as an issue of parasocial relationships undersells the problem by categorizing romantic fantasies in the same manner as any relationship one has with a famous figure in the same way.
I see what you're saying and I agree in a sense, however the expectations of dating an idol forms through para social ties, like you can't get there without at least forming some sort of para social relationship. People can have para social relationships with any celebrity or influencer, what matters is how far you take it and this example shows what happens when people do take it that far, which makes it a para social issue on top of a dating expectation issue.
@@Taejiu One thing the agencies might do - but I have absolutely NO idea how this could happen - is get it understood by fandom that when idols say they "adore" or "cherish" their [insert fandom name] that said affection is not directed at them 'personally.' Again, how to do that is beyond me. I'm neither a marketing expert nor psychologist.
@@TaejiuI wouldn't frame romantic parasocial relationships as being further on a one-dimensional scale of intensity than friendship. Like, Trump cultists have quite an intense parasocial relationship without the need for a romantic angle.
And to look at this from the other direction, I think someone casually complain that Karina is dating a guy is still in the wrong. What's wrong is the specific expectation of idols giving up on dating, and then intensity is a multiplier on top of that.
There are also healthy types of parasocial relationships, like the relationships idols have with their idols that drove them to become idols. The intensity is separate from whether the parasocial relationship is of a good type or not.
@@bopete3204 I look at Parasocial relationships as an umbrella to the rest of what we are seeing, like you said it doesn't have to be romantic but it can be. There can be healthier para social relationships which is why I specify the "intensity" of them in this video, I mean in small part a lot of us all have para social ties whether we even realize or not.
@@TaejiuIt's only gonna get more intense with the readily available access to celebrities' personal lives over the internet. Loneliness and isolation also need to be addressed.
So happy to see another video from you!! :)
I'm prepared to be informed
i am almost 40.. I entered the kpop rabbithole thru Girls Generation videos about 3 weeks ago.. Now my absolute favs are ITZY, aespa and G-IDLE.. This video is so sad.. the saddest part being that the people who really need to hear this will never will.. i personally think kpop fans in Korea are a different breed.. MANNNNN they can force people out of their groups and companies thru comments.. they know countries all over love their idols too but they be like "you're a kpop star bitch u belong to us.." THOSE are the people who need to hear this.. but i bet they never will.. keep going man.. you are doing a great job..
Remember the cut for beiber thing? K-pop hasn't got that bad yet and I genuinely hope it doesn't
It's the exploitation of the idols and the fans. The level of intensity of the para-social relationships are getting worse.
I think parasocial relationships are pretty natural. It's how we all interact with celebrities, streamers, artists that we like. For as long as the relationship is positive and it makes you happy, absolutely go for it. As soon as you start having negative feelings associated with that parasocial relationship, step back and reassess the way you're engaging.
TAEJIU IS BACK
You make some compelling points; dating is a personal choice and shouldn't require an apology. Sadly, the agencies are also complicit in creating these parasocial relationships because of profit.
Anyone who think they own these idols or live through them should get help immediately because it isn't healthy
i will admit, its because of the parasocial relationships i stan groups. but at the end of the day, idols are not you friends. THEY DONT EVEN KNOW YOU EXIST. the virality of karinas dating scandal will cause stereotypes to kpop fans that is just so disheartening becuase not everyone is like that. you think its getting better but its back to square 1
the fact karina never said nything about her being apart of the lgbt,but kpop stan convised them selfs that she was and then got upset when she was dating a man like......this whole thing is 100 and 10 % there flaut lmfao
one company that angers me a lot is SM ent. they need to learn how to actually protect their idols, the RIIZE scandal and then the taeyeon thing. SM really doesn’t deserve these idols, i hope SM actually speaks up and protects their idols instead of telling them to write apologies for the stupidest reasons ever. and those type of k-pop stan’s really need to grow up cause they are NOT gonna date their favs at all.
This has always been such a weird phenomenon to see happen. I'll never understand that part of kpop culture where the dating lives matter that much. Here in America, sure people like to talk about the personal lives of celebrities but the idea of "betrayal" isn't really a part of it. It's more gossip based than anything else. Beyond the gossip, no one really gives a shit who's dating and who isn't. But kpop culture is just bizarre in that fans act like the relationship between artist and fanbase is personal.
But more than anything, there's no way Karina should have apologized and I can only assume it wasn't her own decision. Which makes the company very much at fault here. Kpop idols apologizing for their dating lives will simply continue perpetuating that kind of culture. The company is validating the actions of these fans when they shouldn't be.
Oh my ur back!💜
can’t wait for this omg
I would’ve forgotten she was dating someone by now if people weren’t making such a deal about it literally saw the announcement and was like oh ok cool for her and went on with my day. I don’t understand why anyone is upset people need to get a grip
I have never thought about any idols s3xuality. I have never been s3xually or romantically attracted to idols. I dont idolize any of them either. When i listen to k-tubers about idols, im just there for the drama or commentary. Most of my Spotify list is K-pop, but i dont think much of the idols (except for bts, ateez, Jonghyun in an inspo way, and Ningning in like i want her to be successful way.😊). I didn't even know people were out here assuming s3xualities (its kpop stan culture, i should have known😮💨). I just thought they were doing fanfics only (still weird because its real people. Leave that ish to fictional characters, please. Do they not feel embarrassed or shameful? I wouldn't be able to look myself in the mirror😵💫). Anyway, im not an Aespa fan, but i hope Karina holds her ground cause these people have lost their damn minds (some never had it to begin with🤭)
I love your videos. One of my top commentary channels.
Future video Suggestions? Take your time with them, tho:
1. Why can't some K-pop stans ever take criticisms or opinions and always take it as hate? (Maybe part of it is because they live vicariously through their idols? So, if you criticize the idol, you are criticizing them? And the fantasy runs deep, too.
2. K-pop companies are never changing ish because of k stans (like, y'all are screaming into the void. Talking to a wall. Why? Because most K-pop stans complain about a wrong/disturbing thing, but they never back it up with their actions. How are you going to complain about lack of content/music from Blackpink, but turn around and eat everything YG throws your way like a pack of pariahs? If you want more, let your demands be known. Stop listening or buying things, and they'll feel it. When they feel their money dicrease, that's when they will listen. Or how cube is still standing even after how many times they've screwed over multiple groups. Why is that company still standing? Or Minors in groups. Why are you people complaining when you still turn around and support them? These companies know their consumers, and they know they will still be around because the consumers refuse to stand on business.)
3. Give credit where credit is do (If an idol wears good clothes, they will be considered fashion icons as if they styled themselves. But if its bad, it's the stylist fault.
If the company releases a good song, they will praise the idol as if the idol was the one who produced it. But if it's bad, it's the company's fault.
4. How do K-pop stans not see that most idols are portraying a persona? (Bad ass on MVs, but docile like a marshmallow. Trying to be a savage, but on variety shows, all aegyo and ish. Saying things in lyrics that they do not believe or follow. They are trying to fit the beauty standards they claim they are trying to break. What are they changing exactly?) Some with nasty personalities/believes (mina of AoA, the glam girl, the T-ARA girl, big bang member caught in burning sun, hyuna, etc)
5. Just because the idol produces or writes doesn't mean they are good.
6. Some idols just dont want to or should not go solo. The majority would not make it. Get over it.
7. Most K-pop stans value looks over talent (otherwise, the visual position wouldn't have even been a thing in the first place).
8. Dont ask for mature concepts if you're going to age shame adult idols. (Most of these adult idols aren't even 30 yet).
9. Stans lying to make their idols look good or trying to Gaslight people into thinking something never happened.
10. Adding ridiculous titles or achievements to their favs record or going viral for the dumbest things.
10:55 is my exact same feelings too.
I totally agree with everything in this video.
The fans you described in this video are no real fans to me. You're just too chronically online and you are toxic to the otherwise relaxing hobby that people can have and to the idols just trying to simply entertain the people and perform a simple job. Leave idols alone and keep the fandom a fun and light-hearted place. Of course some things sadly happen negatively here and there that need serious addressing, but an idol having a private life isn't one of those!!!!! You. Do. Not. Own. Idols. + They. Owe. You. Nothing.
I like that you mentioned how the companies promote their idols because I'm sure young kids and vulnerable people that can't distinguish reality can easily form unhealthy attachments and the companies benefit from people being delulu. It's downright immoral. Not to take the blame off the fans but they wouldn't be so emboldened in their delusion if the company didn't endorse it
I’m gonna be honest…people are too soft with the lgbt community when in fandom spaces. They often push the idea of people and characters being lgbt when the person has shown otherwise. In k pop every girl k pop star is seen as a lesbian. Sana from twice, Ryujin and yeji from itzy, Lisa from blackpink, and Karina are hugely affected by this. I’m also going to make the industry be accountable too as they push skinship and fake personas to make the members look lgbt to target those fans to make money. It’s a huge issue.
karina apologizing
- to ppl who have this parasocial relationship with her
- because she isn't gay
This is insane way to treat a young woman entertainer whose entertainment gives fans joy. It's embarrassing to the KPop industry that this young *adult* woman had to apologize...for living her life. She's a citizen in a free country, but the fandom who sent the truck and did the online harassment has basically imprisoned her. Or forced her to date in secret. Taejiu, thanks for the essay on this subject.
The type of "fans" that keep calling some idols gay makes me really anger and uncomfortable like no stop get a life plus also write fanfiction about them .... I personally hate fanfiction and I don't think it's okay in any way or form to write or read fanfiction about idols
Gonna vent or dump what I have seen in the years as a fan.
I’m a dude, I like girl groups when I want to vibe and work out, I listen to boy groups if I want to just vibe as well. GGs more cause they are just fun and cute and that vibe is unmatched.
However, what did we expect? Sure, we are in 4th Gen, but we have never entered a change. Sure, 2nd and 3rd Gen fans are now grown and are chilling now. As well as K-pop being more mainstream as well. We are in a different place where things are messier and larger than ever.
I tend to see that Musically kids who are now in High School run this industry. Those kids, (including me, since I am in HS) now have a place to voice their opinion. That itself should be watched. However Kpop and Parasocial relations have always been a thing. It’s just that we’ve all been busy with fanwars, disbandments, bully accusations that we forget that these idols also have romantic relationships. Now that one of the most influential idols has one, we take a turn and shun it. So we got kids and maybe even adults who has no experience or maturity towards the occurrence and is currently speaking on emotion, something the K-pop industry has taken power of.
I’m just saying, there is good in the industry, (good fans really). I’m not saying I’m not one of them, don’t get me wrong, I collect albums and photocards of my bias. (New Jeans Haerin!) and sure, I have “concerts” at 3AM, thinking I’m in MMA lol. But I don’t trash on people’s romance or sexuality. That’s a new low. You can imagine and go on with your day. That’s the fine line of K-pop. To have dreams, to help you grow your creativity of world building but you have to leave that once you are needed in the real world.
There is a fine line of being a fan. Sure, make up scenarios, such as those Wattpad ff 21+ oneshot with JK and Taehyung tags. That should be the very far thing and level as a fan. But those people also know that it’s fake. That these people are just celebs like Justing Bieber or Ariana Grands, (shoutout Ari!) it’s just that the system is more grounded than of US celebs.
The reason why idols are getting younger is not an accident. They want kids to relate to idols of the same age and eventually try out to be an idol. They are fr using a child’s mindset to create the grounds of this industry. It’s crazy. So, that’s my vent. Sorry 😅
I found a article from 2019 that did a story on the "dating rules" and they also talked to current and former Idols of the big 3 labels and guess what the conclusion was... Exaggerated non-sense., JYP is the only one with a rule in place and it's fair from a business point of view, after 3 yrs of being in JYP the rule is gone, Nobody wants a slutty trainy that brings problems instead of revenue..JS, The company's aren't strict about dating society is. and these weird toxic fans control the narrative and blame the company's while the fans are the one's raising the "Scandal issues" If your wondering how that is possible it's simple... Nobody actually takes the time to research company policies for themselves, people just read a post and assume it's 100% true, once you get enough people repeating the same lie long enough you end up where we are right now. So in reality the blame falls in two places, The Idols should NEVER allow society dictate their personal lives and secondly us normal fans failed, Nobody ever takes the time to verify or question what random people say online, normal fans just hopped on the bus that the morons were driving and went along for the ride. Here is just one of many stories I found like this www.sportskeeda.com/pop-culture/k-pop-s-big-3-agencies-dating-rules
Hello Teajiu,
I love listening to your videos, please I wanted to ask if you could put the download feature back on your videos..thank you
wait does her apology mean that they broke up??? nah bro if they already broke up that would be so messed up; i can't believe these fans are fr wtf
Its very much as a kpop fan, “this is why we cant have nice things” 😂
I think it maybe becoz it's just her initial years in kpop, might be 3rd year that's why people Dobt like it. Most famous idols reveal this in their 7th year or after it, and most people admit it
yes, thank you. i feel like what most of the lbgtq fans/lesbian fans don't understand is that they've taken their "jokes" too far. to the point where the people who actually take it seriously feel sort of validated that they're right to be in disdain of karina's relationship, and even members of the lgbtq community feel weirded out by it. and if they're called out they play the "you're just homophobic!" or "you're just mad we didn't say your fave is cishet!" card. no. we're mad you even assumed anything at all. why do that? it's not your place.
A casual listener of aespa this news broke my heart because she is a HUMAN FUCKING BEEN and I do collect photocard to keep a piece of the era I experienced with them and others...man I thought kpop will change but kpop never been the same after bts came to the U.S. and many more after😔😒
Petitions should be made to make policies to track down these "love seekers" as harassment cases, on both netizens and press prying into idols' privacy.
Absolutely ridiculous people feel entitled to this info and even worse that the idols are demanded to apologize/appease them.
I hated when people equated dedicated army fandom culture as parasocial relationship but then I can't even defend kpip fandom culture when things like this keep on happening .
The fans in this comment section seem to be pretty head-on-straight. So.... not everyone is unhinged. And unhinged ppl tend to be the loudest, and that might make their numbers look larger. This reminds me of sports team fans..... Most fans are cool, but the rowdy and violent ones make international TV news....
I don’t get the hate. I understand the “it should’ve been me” meme but as long as the idol is happy and if you’re truly a fan or just a decent person you’d be happy that they’re happy.
For real. I don't even make the "it should have been me" meme (in spite, or perhaps because, of my own crush on Karina) because people might take it seriously. Kpop and its fan culture need to change.
I'm glad you're talking about this, I could care less if my faves from my ult groups including Karina is dating. If I heard that they were dating I'm doing monkey barrel flips out of sheer happiness. Parasocial relationships are dangerous I was sad when I heard she apologize y'all need to touch some grass. Kpop artists are humans too they deserve love and happiness just like us regular shmegular people!
Can we talk about how this came put once sm decided that Lucas would debut solo? Not saying it planned but it feels like she was thrown under the bus to lessen reaction to Lucas comeback as an idol. Even with allegations against him. But the reaction her dating is stupid cuz it was mad weird we do not know her same with everything happening with RIIZE.
HES BACK
Although knetz are always the problem this time not was it only knetz but also inetz acting like they have authority over Karina’s sexuality and calling her a traitor for dating a man. When she never came out or said anything about her sexuality other than being an ally supporting friends and being friendly towards her fans like any other. The whole situation was messed up and Karina should have never apologized for loving someone and living her life also her sexuality isn’t anyone’s business she can date whoever she wants.
Both Karina and Jaewook should have ignored this vocal minority, and addressed the people who were actually congratulating/wishing them well. Did her company really make her apologize?
You need to start making the volume of your voice louder. It's not the first time and I am tired to put the volume to 100% when I usually 20%.
I’m still shock about this
Not to be parasocial, but I'm glad to see you uploading a new video!
The BBC wrote an article about this. The BBC!! K-pop is barely a thing in the UK, and there was a whole article written about this by the biggest news broadcaster in the country. It's a big deal.
whole kpop and idol industry survives on parasocial bonding.without it and only judging idols based on their skill and talent,whole industry would collapse within a day.majority of kpop idols are pretty face without much skills and majority of groups are only famous because of the influence of their company and not based on their skills.
As a lesbian, these rabid lesbian girl group shipper/lesbian theorizers make me stay away from stanning girl groups, theres so many compilations of 2 members just TALKING or being friendly like just normal stuff, and somehow they frame it as EVIDENCE that they are “in love with eachother” 💀. Like when i tell you most of it is straight up grasping at straws, i mean it. Same goes for male group shippers, just shippers in general ruin kpop. Like its music and idols, not a fucking romance drama 😅 someone needs to tell those shippers that.
Like idk why people put so much expectation on idols, like all i exepect of even my favorite idol is that they are a nice person 😂 like thats it. Like if they arnt being an asshole or offensive, like 10/10 thats all i ask. Like they don’t need to be gay like me 😅 or like whatever. Like idk i dont get the projection people put onto idols. Like just appreciate them as a person, if they don’t fit some made up expectations then thats your problem, not the idols.