How to take perfect FLAT FRAMES and DARK FLAT FRAMES with the Asiair Pro / Asiair Plus
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- čas přidán 30. 10. 2022
- Hi Everyone,
In this video I talk you through the method I use to capture flat frames and dark flat frames using the Asiair pro / asiair plus. I highlight a little known trick to get the dark flats exposure perfectly matching the flat frames.
Here is a link to the LED light panel that I use:
www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...
Any questions, please ask
Did you know I also have a wedding photography business? If you're looking for a wedding photographer in the UK, please check out my website: www.russelldiscombe.com - Zábava
Ha! Thanks for the tip! I usually go to image management and look up the exposure time from the flats file name.
Super helpful, especially for matching exposure on the darks. Much appreciated, thanks for sharing!
Thanks Russell! Just took delivery of the ASIAIR Plus & a ZWO guider. Found your video at the top of a search as I fill in my knowledge of the ASIAIR. Cheers Sir! Great content.
The dark flat method is great. Thanks!😊
As others have commented, that tip about the exposure length for darks is great! Thank you!
Thank you for the video. Nicely done and very easy to understand.
Russell, thank you so much for this video! I have a 200mm Skywatcher Quattro that I'd been struggling for a long time with light frames. I never even realized such a thing as a light board even existed until I saw your video! Got mine from Amazon for $20 and it's been a GAME CHANGER for flat frames! Once again thank you so very much!
Great tip on tapping the button to the side of the exposure. I have always done it manually to match the flat frames.......thanks Russell
You’re welcome Paul. I was doing it manually too for a long time, before I stumbled upon this method. It does save a bit of time.
Outstanding, One of the easiest videos to understand, that I have watched. Thank You.
You’re very welcome Robert, so glad you found it useful. Thanks you very much for watching. Clear skies 👍
I have started using a similar panel for my flats and it works great. Great video, and now that I know how to match my dark flats to my flats, I will begin to use auto exposure, thanks mate
Thank you, glad you found it useful. Thanks for watching
Very useful tutorial. I also use one of those same flat panels and they work really well. Great tip about tapping the button to show the time of the flat frame exposure - I did not know about that, thanks
Thanks very much Logan, glad you found it useful 👍
Thank you so much upbto this point I have only been capturing flats with the asiair plus. And ovcourse normal dark frames but not flat darks because I didn't know what the exposures were......very informative...thank you thank you!!!!!!
You’re very welcome, glad you found it useful. Thank you for watching
Brilliant! Thank you!
Great tutorial Russell, thanks for doing this 👍🏻
Thank you very much Olly 👍
Fantastic - what a useful tutorial 👏🏻
Thank you Victoria
Great reference tutorial, thanks for doing this 🎉
Cheers mate, glad it was useful 👍
Well done Russ!
Thanks Bill
Very useful. I am a newbie in ASIAR, and I just took my first set of light frames with it. I will do the flat and dark frames this evening before I switch filter (manual filter drawers).
Thank you, glad you found it useful. Good luck with the flats
Great tutorial Russell! I also use a tracing panel, but I use a t-shirt as well to make sure it diffuses the light. Interesting on the ASIAIR, NINA has a flat wizard that comes back after the flats and does the dark flats to match, but great trick for the ASIAIR users for sure.
Thanks very much Joe. Yes, a few people have suggested they also use a t0shirt, so might give that a go just to be safe. I'll let you know if there is any difference with the flats.
Great informative video! I also use a tracing tablet for flats. I nice cheap upgrade is to add a slab of white acrylic which acts as a light diffuser. ND paper can also be used to further dim the light.
Thank you very much, glad you enjoyed the video.
Very useful! I didn't know there was an auto option for flats. I don't like them as I feel like I screw them up every time. Auto is a nice change of pace for me. Thank you! Subbed and liked!
Thanks for that tip regarding pressing the button on the screen didnt know that
You’re welcome Nik, glad you found it useful 👍
Thanks again for a great video. I now switched from a bulky flat panel to a similar, thin light pad and it works well using some layers of paper between, otherwise it's too bright even on the first of three dim levels.
But I don't get the AUTO exposure values pop up in the exposure section while tapping on the edit icon, it remains just empty with the blinking cursor. So I still have to look at the filenames in the image management section where the exposures are part of the filename. Not a big deal but your way of reading out the seconds is fancier anyway...☺️ Cheers and clear skies, Nico✨
Many thanks Russell. Didn't realise these existed (I'd only see the far more expensive dedicated flat panels). Have ordered one. Will be using with NINA rather than the ASIAir though.
You're welcome Rob, I'm sure you will love it. Lots of people seem to use them with good success. Clear skies
Russell, I continue to enjoy all your videos…they’re very informative and encouraging. I have an off topic question. I noticed that you have an ASKAR FRA 400 as one of your scopes (I have the 600). The filter wheel you have seems large. I’d like to get into mono photography and my next purchase will be a filter wheel. A lot of people bemoan the fact that unmounted filters are a monster to install. I’m leaning toward the 2” FW, but I fear it will look ridiculous on the 600. I enjoy the esthetics of my kit, and I’m afraid the 2”, 7 position holder may cause regrets. My question is this, should I forgo my need for symmetry and get the 2” FW? Just looking for your opinion. Much thanks.
Useful info Russell. I think I’ll look into buying a similar light panel. Dr B from Manitoba, Canada 🇨🇦
Thank you Brian. The light panel works really well and is A LOT cheaper than a dedicated astro flat panel. Clears skies mate
Good stuff Russell!! I have the same LED panel and I'm a little OCD when taking flats as well. CS.
Thanks mate, it’s a great LED panel, works so well! Clear skies 👍
I've been trying to suss out how to do simple dark flats with the ASIAir for ages, resorted to going into the files to find the exposure length. Thank you for making my life easier. HD8 is a great scope isn't it, one of my best purchases.
You’re welcome Jody, glad you found it useful. I kind of stumbled upon it myself. I was doing what you were which was a bit of a pain, this way is so much easier. Thank you very much for watching.
Yes loving the edge, such a great scope. Clear skies
@@RussellsAstrophotography clear skies... I'm in Somerset so just a bit south of you. Currently in a deluge!
Excellent video
I had had trouble stacking with different bin at the same time
My question is when do you use bin and how do you process them .
I agree with you Russell, great tutorial.
However, we need to make sure that the intensity of our light panel is sufficient so that the automatic exposure does not exceed 10 seconds. Otherwise the number of ADUs will be lower than the average you want.
Great video. I have a question about flats which no one seems to be able to answer - why do we recommend an exposure time of 3 seconds? I have done some experiments, and varying the exposure time (with different light source brightness) does not seem to make a great deal of difference. If you consider that normal lights exposure may be as long as 300+ seconds, how does the 3-second flat rule apply?
Thanks for an excellent video. I assume that you put the cover back on the dew shield for the flat darks.
Good tutorial, Russell, for the ASI AIr users.
To me, the FLAT and its companion, the DARK FLAT, are the most important calibration frames. Don't leave home without them ... Ha. I use a LED sketch pad as well, but I also throw a folded-over XL white T-shirt just to be certain. Call me old-fashion.
Thanks mate. The LED panels are so useful, it really makes me wonder why the dedicated Astro flat panels are hundreds of pounds! Yes I agree, definitely the most important calibration frames, I might try your t-shirt method, see if it helps 👍
There seem to be some people saying dark flats are not needed, and indeed some stacking apps don't use them.
Very useful video Russell thankyou. I've purchased 3 of these tracing pads and all returned. They were bright by the LED's but the light faded towards the opposite side. About 50% as bright. So I've given up on that idea till possible new stock. Maybe try again or wait for a sunny day and T shirt. 😂 Clear sky's to you.
Thanks Mel, oh that’s such a shame, what bad luck. Mines worked really well, I do hope it doesn’t fade as yours did! Clear skies 👍
This is a SUPER helpful video! I am waiting on my first ever monochrome astro camera (ASI2600MM and Asiair Plus) to arrive so the whole concept of filters - and separate flats per filter - is new to me. Question - when I do my stacks - do I stack JUST the flats/dark flats that go with the particular filter in the filter specific stack? That seems intuitive to me, but I have looked at some videos in the past few days and it appears they may be stacking ALL flats (for all filters) together with each stack. Thanks!
Thank you very much, glad you found it useful. Yes, filter requires separate flats and dark flats. Most software will recognise the different exposure times and do this automatically for you. I use PixInsight to stack my images and I load all of my calibration frames (Darks, flats and dark flats) into the programme alongside my light frames and the software stacks them all for me. I hope this helps? Thanks for watching and good luck with the 2600mm, it really is a fantastic camera. Clear Skies
VERY GOOD, SALUDOS DESDE REGION DE ATACAMA EN CHILE
Thank you very much
I don't have a dimmer on my panel, so the auto exposure is well below 3 seconds. What advantage is there in dimming the panel to achieve an exposure over 3 seconds? Or is this method just a best practice? Thank you for this great tutorial!
Thanks for this...I am relatively new to this, and what I have been able to glean from other YT videos is that "darks" is accomplished by placing the cap over the scope and exposing for the same length of time your lights used. So, if your lights were 180 seconds, your darks would be 180 seconds with the cap on the scope/lens. Are "dark flats" the samw as "darks?"
Great tutorial Russell I use NINA for flats & find it a very hit & miss process, I have a light panel but I have to use the rear of it on a T shirt as it's to bright otherwise so not sure what I'm doing wrong, they do still calibrate well afterwards though so it's probably errors on my part.
If they calibrate out well sounds like you’re doing a good job to me! I’ve heard a lot of people use a t-shirt with their LED panels of it’s too bright and they get good results 👍
Thank you Russell. Very useful. I like information about how to find the exposure length. Quick question. Do you leave the light panel 'on' when doing dark flats?
Thank you, glad you found it useful. You need to turn the light off for the dark flats as no light should hit the sensor.
If I’m taking the frames at night, I will just leave the flat panel (turned off) on top of the scope. This usually works well as it’s so dark outside. If I’m shooting them during the day, then I add the scopes lens cap to make sure that no light gets in.
Great Vid - do you know which calibration frames are useful for EAA? And, ooh-er.. I just have one filter on my cam all the time - an Optolong l-enhance. What do I tell the ASI? I guess the filters are on a wheel and that is an AP thing? And, last question, does the ASI Air+ apply these frames during Live Stacking?
Great video…. What camera are you using? I have a ZWO294 Mc pro. I do same thing as you do with panel on top of dew shield, shot with same gain as lights, etc. BUT, even at the lowest levels of my panel I get overexposed flats and have to put on a tshirt and a piece of 11x14 sketch paper to get adu to 30k. I’m surprised you don’t have to do same thing. Also, I’m assuming for your darks you’re turning off your panel right?
Thx for this. Can i ask why you just don’t go to Live mode and select the flats and darks to be autocalibrated and made directly into master flat and master dark fits?
Awesome video. Why do you keep flats over 3 secs? I saw another videos that say 2 sec is better. Thank you 🖖🏼
Thank you Russell ! I really appreciate the tips & tricks you shared! Two quick questions: Is the ASIair Plus capable of turning on/off & changing the brightness of your flat panel? Any rumours floating around that ZWO will be producing their own flat panel?
Thanks Derek. No the aisair can’t turn on/off the flat panel, however I do power it from the Asiair using a different power cord I had lying around. It would be great if it could adjust the brightness, but unfortunately this one is just a cheap generic LED panel, so it can’t communicate with the Asiair. I’ve not heard any rumours about ZWO making a flat panel, but if they did and it ‘talked’ to the Asiair I’m sure it would sell like hotcakes! T
When I use the panel, I take the sun shade off the Edge HD. Have you found better results with the shade on?
Nice Russell this is exactly
How I do it but I heard recently you can capture just one set of dark flats for Ha say then optimise them to use on S and Oiii not sure if this true but less storage and time if it is.
Thanks Simon...Oh wow that's very interesting, I might try that as see if it works. any tips would be great. Thank you 👍
Hi, I have been using the same panel for a while and found that the flat calibration leads to heavily red tinted images. It just comes from the flat calibration, without the images dont have that color tint. I believe its the way those led-panels work, spectrum wise. Did you notice that flaw as well? Shouldnt we consider real flat panels?
Great video Russell . I was hoping you would do one in the ASIAIR ! Helps a lot as I don’t like doing flats . Do you shoot them the same night or the next day ?
Thank you Stephen, I do often take them the next day and the good thing about the light panel is that this is nice and easy. I always take them after I have collected the data though. You just need to make sure that you take them before you rotate the camera or change anything in the image train in any way.
Thanks Russell . When I use the darks created in Asi Air pix complains it’s does not match the light frames of 240 secs , Am I missing something or do you process these a different way ?
i dont see a filter field for auto run and am i suppose to cover lens with cap
Many thanks for this workflow. Especially the trick to find exposure times for flat darks. Which asiair filter selection is required in case of flats for duo nb filter like optolong extreme?
You're welcome, so glad you found it useful. It should be the same process for the Optolong filter, you should just be able to select which position on the filter wheel the LExtrerme filter is and follow the same process.
@@RussellsAstrophotography Many thanks. I assume the filter selection tab in the flat settings appears in case of using EFW to rotate to the correct position and has nothing to do with exposure pre settings, right? So this is not applicable and required in my case using OSC and a simple filter drawer with attached duo nb filter.
@@mr.f.9672 yes that’s correct. The EFW drop down will only appear if you are using a filter wheel 👍 everything else should be the same
What camera are you using? I have a similar tracing pad and at the lowest settings I can't take flats with longer exposures than 0.5 with a 533MC PRO and a 3600MC PRO.
Learned something new about the ASIAIR.... and I am supposed to be a beta-tester of that device... :P It might also be because I never shoot dark flats. I just don't find them useful.
Russell, great video and I'm enjoying your channel. Quick question: I have a 925 Edge HD, same as yours and all the ZWO kit. I'm struggling with the EAF to get good focus. It takes a long time, it constantly overshoots and then takes a long time to get back to a focus point, which is then a completely different number than before, etc. All very problematic. Any tips?
Thank you very much Steve, glad you’re enjoying the channel 👍
I’ve not had any issues with my EAF on the edge. Did you get the specific adapter for SCTs and the EAF? I did have an issue a while ago on my Askar, which turned out to be a lose screw. I just tightened all the screws on the EAF and that worked well.
One thing that worked well for me and a friend of mine (Olly) was increasing the exposure time. I use 8second exposure during focus for SHO and 5 seconds for RGB.
What settings are you currently using?
@@RussellsAstrophotography I’ll take a look and make sure it’s nothing as simple as that! Thanks.
@@sdy30 The other thing you might want to try is increasing the calibration steps (both fast and slow) as this might speed up the EAF routine
I see all these lines on your image - i have the same issue - especially at fast exposure times .
Is this ok ? If I take longer exposures , dim the light and lower the ISO - the lines go
Away
Can you elaborate please
What, no stretched white cloth for an even light source? Now I'm even more confused.
Does ASIAir stack the flat frames and dark flat frames with the lights? Or is that done on the PC?
Hi Russell, I am new to this field of astrophotography and I have a question about the shots with the filters, do you use them because you also use them physically with your equipment? Thanks for the video and your great input.
Yes mate. You got it.
Hi Russell, I ordered a light panel and wanted check I've not ordered something cheap and unusable 🤔
Does your light panel have some kind of tiny dot grid on the surface? I can switch it on and it's got 3 brightness settings, but I was sort of expecting a uniform 'brightness' across the surface, not a grid pattern. Perhaps this is how they all are and it doesn't matter?
Sorry, confused 😕
Hi Russell great video I tried to do the flat dark frame but when I press the button but nothing happened and can you explain why it happened.Thanks
Oh, that is strange. I'm not sure why that is the case. Are you using the IOS app or android? Maybe they are slightly different? I know it works for me with my iPad.
@@RussellsAstrophotography I saw the same behavior when I tried to set the dark flat exposure about an hour ago. That 'button' is to enter a number other than the presets. Russell, you were using V1.9 in the video. I now have V2.0. I suspect that the new version removed that functionality. Maybe it was a bug previously that was 'fixed' in V2. Maybe that functionality was broken in V2. Who knows? I am using Android and a Canon T6i.
So you do not shoot bias frames? Ok so now when all of your frames get added to pixinsight, you add your lights, flats and do you add the dark and dark flats together?.. I am confused
What if you used one shot camera with just light pollution filter.
would you put the dark flats in as bias frames when stacking ?
I use APP so there is a folder to add flat dark frames. I think if you’re using PI then you add the dark flats in the dark section along with your normal dark frames and PI matches them to the flats.
Great video! My only feedback is to maybe remove the spa music in the background, it was a bit distracting. Thanks so much for the effort!
Thanks Ash, I'll try to make sure it's not distracting in future videos. Thanks for watching
I would warn anyone thinking of buying one to take your time and do your research because you could find yourself getting on a never-ending cycle of upgrades.
That telescope that worked straight out of the box gets a camera attached and all of a sudden you can't focus it. So you have to spend hours on the internet trying to learn about back-focus before you buy adapters. Then you see a youtube video about an automatic focuser and you buy it only to discover that you need something to mount it on your particular telescope as well as something to drive it.
Then you discover that your Alt/Az mount just doesn't suit your new purchases so you spend a few thousand more on a new and improved equatorial.
Then you see the sort of pictures other people are producing so you decide to get a new and bigger telescope with a whiz bang new guide scope and you realise that the planetary camera needs to be upgraded to one more suited to deep sky photography.
Then you discover that you're using the telescope even less because, now that it weighs half a ton, it's not worth taking it outside because you don't have enough blood in your veins to feed all the mosquitos. Then you see a CZcams video on building an observatory so, a few thousand dollars later, you have a place to put your gear.
After a couple of weeks you start to notice how bad the light pollution is in your area so you sit down with the wife/husband and discuss moving to a less polluted site.
Six months later your partner has moved out because they're sick of having to commute for four hours a day to a job it used to take them 15 minutes to get to and you're health is failing because you have to set the alarm to go off every hour so you can check for rain.
If you're a novice at this hobby be very careful because devices like this have very unfriendly menu systems and absolutely no support from manuals. In fact it's obvious the manufacturers assume a previous level of experience with devices like this.
Devices like this are only intuitive for people who are familiar with the technology.
Have to disagree, this is not a complicated part of this hobby if you watch great tutorials like this, anyone can do this important part of Astro; additionally, most of the fun of Astrophotography is looking at upgrades and deciding how far down the ‘rabbit hole’ you want to go… I personally would advise people to just ‘go for it’… 👍🏻
I found my soul mate!
But we are smart enough to know this before getting into the hobby.....its called researching....I'm sorry if you bought a lot of stuff and don't know how to use it maybe sell it to me
Nice video. I don’t have the Asiair Pro and I use a reflex as a camera for astrophotography. When I put on my telescope my flat panel, I turn it on as low as possible but the exposure is always shorter than that. 1/80 and I have to go down to iso 100; if I stay with the same iso of the light frames, my exposure time is 1/640. What am I doing wrong?
Thanks,
Fabrizio
Hi Fabrizo, I’m using Narrowband filters in this video so they will block out a lot of light. If your not using filters, they you’ll probably need something between the telescope and light source. Some people use white t-shirts or even paper to dim the light. Hope this helps 👍
@@RussellsAstrophotography ok, thanks.
Turn of autofocus on filterchange, if using EAF?
I’ve never actually turned this setting off when taking flats or dark flats. Maybe the Asiair knows not to refocus when taking flats, it’s never tried to refocus for me. Have you had issues with this? If so I’ll pin your comment at the top of the video to let people know. Thanks 😊
@@RussellsAstrophotography Actually, I have never tried. I just intuitively thought that was appropriate, but it makes sense, that the Air knows, that focus is irrelevant on flats and flat darks, and it's better not to move ANYTHING.
I have the same sketch pad, just smaller, and the auto exposure times is way lower, even on the dimmest setting and with 4 layers of paper on my 6" Ritchey-Chretien and Optolong 6.5-7nm narrowband filters. Using Asi533MC.
Have you noticed a difference in the processing end result, when resting the flat panel on the dew shield and not directly on the tubus?
@@StangspringDK yes intuitively that makes sense, I didn’t actually think about that, so I’m glad that the Asiair is smarter than me 😂
From everything I read online and heard from other people, they suggest keeping the flats above 2 or 3 seconds. I have my flat panel on the middle setting for Ha and Sii and the lowest for Oiii and that seems to work well for me.
No I’ve not noticed any difference when resting on top of the dew shield. I have tried both and they seem to be the same 👍
Is the light uniform enough from that lightpanel?
It seems to work really well for me. I know a few others have commented saying that they use the same light panel and get good results 👍
Worth looking into, though the 12v you use, is hard to find in eu it seems
How necessary is it to have it halfway, not been doing that and my flats have been working fine?
Hi Mark, I think most people recommend getting the histogram around the halfway mark. It doesn't need to be spot on, you can be slightly over or under, but my understanding is that ADU value should be close to the half way point. How far off the halfway point are your flats?
@@RussellsAstrophotography I think I could be 1/4 up the histogram lol. I'd need to check. When using my IDAS NBZ I normally do 20x2 seconds for the flats, using a piece of shirt and an ipad on pages. I guess I'll need to try exposing for longer next time to get it halfway.
@@Sidecontrol1234 It would be interesting to see how it goes. I always found that slightly under exposed flats work better than over exposed flats. Anything close to that midway point works well for me thought
Another question! I though that darks should be taken using the same exposure length as the lights. Is that not correct?
Yes this is correct. For Dark frames they should be the same exposure, gain and cooling as the lights. These are Dark Flat frames. I use Darks, Flats and Dark Flats for my calibration frames.
I use Dark Flats instead of the bias frames now (as do a lot of others) and they seem to do a better job
Thanks for another great video Russell. Last night I took my auto flats using my LED panel, although the histogram was around 50% the exposure was 10 seconds. That seems awfully high, should I discard these flats, increase the light and reshoot my flats to get closer to around 3 second exposures? Also, I usually take flats with the mount disconnected-no worry about mishaps. Again, love your channel, keep up the great work especially with the ASIAIR.
@@josephluciani5531 Hi Joseph, I think the longer flats should be fine. Most people recommend keeping the exposures over 3 seconds as the images can fluctuate more with shorter exposures. I think 10 second subs should be fine. So glad you are enjoying the channel. Thanks for watching 👍
No shirt used??? Hmmmmmm see i need to play around more like this
thought yuo wanted the flats to be the same exp as your lights?
The darks frames are same settings at lights. These are flat and dark flats.
Doesn’t work on cameras like 294mm. Flats should be long >1.5-2 sec. Those panels are too bright and need neutral density films.
NINA finds zenith by push of button.
The same gain is not enough. Offset should be the same and temperature.
The camera I’m using here is the 294mm pro…it works perfectly. All flats I took in this video were over 3seconds and I always make sure they are greater than 2seconds. I was using the same gain and temperature.
@@RussellsAstrophotography Such panel doesn’t work in many people’s hands. This panels are too bright, often uneven. I use Pegasus panel.
Your individual SHO really great. Galaxies is also excellent, and resolution is very good. Why your SHO nebulas have the same palette, cyan blue inside brown-red on rims? Do you use standard processing?
Well what fucking is it? Auto exposure or using the exposure you took the light picture at ? like wtf kind of video is this?