The Role of Prep in Rapid Finals vs Le Quang Liem and Fabiano Caruana
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 28. 02. 2022
- The Role of Prep in Rapid Finals vs Le Quang Liem and Fabiano Caruana
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Fabiano is amazing! And he used this line simply coz he didn't think it was worth using OTB so I don't know what people are talking about.
Fabi prep is otherworldly.
31:10 It's not usual you see Hikaru flabbergasted.
It was fun watching the game and Hikaru getting beaten because it's rare for him to get beaten like that đ
@@omni-man3137 yeah that was absolute pwnage but, as he said, hopefully this helps him in Berlin
@@joonpak True.
Watched this match live. Kudos to fabi for the hardwork and effort he put into the pteparations
32:38 "Games like this are why I sometimes hate chess" Fabi took Hikaru into Tal's Forest for a field trip đ
I think it was old prep that the computers no longer like. Stockfish has undergone changes recently where it is less optimized for hyper bullet but much better longer. That translates to much better deep stuff. Caruana probably was having all his prep tested with the new version, and some of it had changes. He probably did not consider it good enough for serious tournaments.
You don't necessarily want to do what Naka is describing to discover lines. You want to automate the process, then you get much more out of the hardware you have. And, you are not sitting there all day, as he suggested Caruana is. You look at what it comes up with after it has done it.
You use "blunder check" with 0 "threshold". Then, if it sees any improvement, it will record that line. I use 300 seconds. 300 seconds per move with a high-end computer; say a AMD Ryzen 9 5950X, with 128GB of RAM, 2TB SSD (for 6-man and less endgame tables), ho-hum graphics card, and decent power supply, is going to be much better than 60 seconds with anything you can buy, even for $20,000. And if you are only interested in opening then you can use PGN tools to truncate the games to say 25 moves, or 30 in the Ruy Lopez or other very analyzed openings. For this approach, it is better to just have several somewhat high-end computers, rather than one beast. Okay, I selected components for a machine like I was describing. Search "public Wish Lists at New Egg" and once you have found that, search for "2022 Chess Machine". I think there is a 24-hour delay from the time I made it, before you can see it. With taxes and such, it is around $2,300. You can cheap out on the video card even more than I did, if you are only ever going to run Stockfish. Of course, a few of these machines will take a bit of electricity, so having some solar might help. Depending on climate, you might want more case fans. You also have to download the 6-man endgame tables. Unless you want to try to generate them. Yes, you want them even for openings research. Machines like these will hit tables from before move 1. They don't need monitors, keyboards or mice, they can be used on a network. You can use another computer for that. Probably something not as high end.
True after the game I calculated the exact position in the intro and it took a very long time for h4 to become a candidate move for the computer. This is a flaw with analyzing with browser engines because they are much slower in finding high depth moves. Using cloud computing such as Chessify allows you to analyze at high depth much faster but these are of course paid services which are only really an option for competitive masters. Even then you need high level intuition for finding these options in critical positions. Fabiano's level of prep for this game was very impressive on that move alone, but he understood thoroughly many of the resulting dynamics in the position which allowed him to snowball, blitzing out almost every move and use the rest of the time to finish up the game accurately, converting to a winning endgame.
Chess masters might be incentivized to build either really good computers specifically geared for deep calculation, or use professional cloud services to analyze the games together with a team of people skilled at finding valuable lines.
"Fabiano sitting at home all day" Lmao
Interesting how Caruana used his reputation for consummate prep to discomfit Nakamura. Against another player Nakamura might've said, "That's a weird move," and gone on with the game, but against Caruana he knew that there was some deep, nasty surprise waiting for him and it threw him off.
This is what real competitive chess means; insane.
fabi "this isn't even prep"
Why doesn't white fork Nc7+ around the 36:00 mark in response to Ke8? Hikaru doesn't even mention the fork, so I was sweating while he was calculating thinking he missed it. But then white never went for the fork either. Obviously way more likely that both GMs dismissed the idea than me finding a brilliant move two GMs missed. So why no fork?
I think the problem is the white knight is too active. Trading it for a bad rook is a great trade for Hikaru, giving him chance to draw the game
like long ba said, that knight has an insane outpost and can be utilized much more. games arenât all just about material advantage, position is more important especially in high elo
piercing knight is more powerful than a rook in the corner, especially with a bunch of other threats Fabi can bring it to crush hikaru
Because that knight is way way way too strong on that outpost there are kind of ideas to checkmate black or restrict the movement of black peices so why fabi just waste that knight for a rook and give hikaru a little bit of counter play I doubt magnus against Wesley so have the very good knight outpost and magnus even sacrificed his own rook to remain on that outpost with knight so that how strong knights are got it ??
Hikaru not only mentioned but explained why it would give him drawing chances.
Bro i had people that a backseat gaming. These players understand any position better then us within 5 seconds even if we get like 30 minutes to think. I've seen like 20 comments on a fork that isn't even worth playing cuz that knight is actually worth almost as much as a queen. The bind that fabi had with thee knight was actually impossible to play against. Also that calculation in the first game was actually insane, immediately understanding that this was the best line . Chess is soo fucking cool to watch in this fashion. I mean I like Gotham chess and stuff, but this is actually Soo cool to watch
32:41 this is exactly the point Bobby Fischer made in that old video you saw. I seem to remember you not agreeing...
Lol yeah because Hikaru contradicts himself all the time and also he has no respect for Fischer who is far superior than him.
@@matterickson503 Hikaru ranked Fischer 'God of chess' in his player tier list vid. He also spoke highly of his influence and ability in chess, iirc saying many players he encountered in his youth had started to play because of Fischer. Check the vid out when you can.
This is stunning!: I let my (fairly strong) Stockfish NNUE run on that position and although it neither particularly likes h4 nore explicitly recommends h4, it says after 1. h4 d6 2. h5 h6 3. O-O-O that all is zeros. It goes down to a pretty weird kingside attack where blacks constantly hanging in there by just one move. As soon as I myself tried a move I instantly blundered. Again, the computer draws it but as a human I think it's practically lost, unless you're very strong.
Wow great video watched the whole thingđ
Yes, I as well have seen the durationđ
Indeed, consumed and am relaying that I have in-fact seen this video.
I am in agreement, we have all processed this picture in the totality of its format.
I have come to concur with this statement, myself and others have been found receiving this audio visual experience with its intended total run time.
bots love to write this exact same comment all around YT
The whole Fabiano game was a huge bluff. HE WAS BETTING YOU WOULD THINK THAT HE WOULDN'T BLUFF! But in a rapid game he just might :)). It was a total bluff. He was giving you the advantage so, that you would crawl around with your king, with dubious thoughts! Plugg the game in and you will be enlightened, but I urge you to use your consciousness and rely on that even better.
Even if Hikaru played correct move order the opening gives each side equal strength based on eval bar. Itâs not a bad opening itâs just Hikaru wasnât aware of it so he came up with some excuse
@@rabailey10 Well I know their tricks and mind games. It's not chess.
very nice games. It's beautiful to watch the logic unfold.
One of the best streams; thanks.
I think it's nice to see the growth of you as a person in these moments. Compared to previously. You should be proud of yourself Hikaru. Great job dealing with the Fabiano game.
"It's either good for me, or it's not.."
-GM Hikaru Nakamura
@Tynan Media wtf, what does that have to do with chess
The first game was awesome, very nice calculation
i think Fabiano might have used a supercomputer for this prep
It should come as no surprise a desktop 16-core CPU with the latest Stockfish dev build finds h4 is the primary move after mere seconds (in regards to the preview clip).
No it doesnât
I just realized Le Quang Liem's middle name and Hikaru's first name are the same.
You should play to become the world championship. I love watching you win.
He does not like classical chess
lol Fabulous Fabiano
I read Le Quang and instantly thought of Sarks vietnam rant from machinima inbox. I wonder how many people actually know what im referencing or if thats too old for the younger generation.
I think the best gm hikaru
I thought there would be a new game in the last 15 min of the video
This man has never smoked weed in his life
Fabi explained his opening had been played 20x before. Hikaru was incorrect stating it was a novel opening that Fabi spent hours onâŠ.
sitting at home alone LOL
wheres the part where hikaru said "hours"? and wheres the explanation by fabi?
tone doesnt translate well over text, so i just want to clarify that i am asking this naively and genuinely lol
@Nintendo Players do you think I remember exactly what he referenced? And do you actually believe Hikaru when he said Fabi used a super computer? Thatâs kinda naive
@@rabailey10 its hard to tell if youre actually trying to parody and make fun of hikaru haters by pretending to show how their flow of logic and understanding of the modern chess game sounds
@@shucklesors Iâm just making the point Hikaru was incorrect when he stated Fabi probably used a super computer and hours of work for his prep for this particular game. Itâs poor sportsmanship not only because Hikaru assumptions are false but also because Hikaru should have just said GG and acknowledged he was outplayed
tl;dr version, caruana burned prep against me and I'm angery
the thing he said in the first minute, it takes less than 1 second for stockfish 14 to see the position as equal, with a normal i7 cpu.
22:35
First game with Quang Liem was so sound, was really easily to follow until late mid game, so i tried following along Hikaru. Love these videos! I definitely need to improve my mid and end game.
Ah yes here we go... 9:40
Commentating while playing against fabiano? Wow... not sure if ballsy , disrepectful or foolish... but cant complain the awesome content. Real time top level GM analysis.. cant get better than that.
It does not matter.
Hikaru fed you a bunch of bs by stating Fabi probably spent hours for his prep. Fabi explained this opening had been played 20x before. Hikaru was just simply outplayed
@Seanzky even if that particular move was novel what makes you think Fabi spent hours on it or used a super computer? These are just ridiculous assumptions made by Hikaru. Instead of showing respect to his opponent and saying âgood gameâ Hikaru comes up with excuses. Itâs poor sportsmanship
@Seanzky It doesnât really matter it isnât in the same move order. Itâs called a transposition (I think). This particular idea has been played over 20 times so he definitely wasnât going to use it OTB. Itâs also too risky to play it in a classical game since Fabi is sacrificing a pawn with no real advantage except faster development. Itâs also not hard too equalize if given enough time or if opponent came prepared. This was a perfect opening to use in a Rapid game since Hikaru has said repeatedly that he had no time to think. If he had time Iâm sure a great player like Hikaru could equalize. Fabi is known for his great preparation and his play in the opening phase anyways so heâs definitely got more preps in his pocket. Hikaru acknowledged that Fabi beat him but he was kind of coping with the loss by giving himself reasons to think it was worth it to lose.
I love naka..But remember boys. The game is more than a game for him. Its about content..
what does he mean by prep like hes mad Fabiano was prepared? can someone explain please
He's just a bit salty and he's saying fabi should have used his prep in a more important tournament but in reality he's just kinda mad
Boils down to the fact that often when Hikaru loses instead of saying good game by opponent he will come up with some excuse. Fabiâs opening had been played 20x before
@@rabailey10 If Hikaru says he hasn't seen that line before I believe him. Afer all he was very well prepared for the Grand Prix so it's not like he's not studying theory lately. He obviously underestimated Fabiano's preparation. He's so used to fast time controls that he doesn't expect to be surprised by anything, regardless of the level of competition.
can U run an engine on AWS?
This is a great idea
Why did Caruano show one of his preps? Now he can't play it in a really important tournament! đ€Łđ€Łđ€Ł
Fabi didnât show prep he explained his opening was done 20x before. Donât believe everything Hikaru saysâŠ
I love hikaru trying to act like fabi was foolish to reveal prep because in the ârealâ tournaments it is now useless. Like it isnât these guysâ job to prep lines. Cry baby got crushed and heâs mad
Tf are all these comments roasting Hikaru? Go back to be 800 and chill đ
You repeat yourself a lot. I guess it was too hard to play with no time. Fabi didn't waste any prep, the idea was already beginning to be tested before Fabi uncorked it here.
Maybe fabiano needed the money for his rent of february so he had no choice ;)
Great to see new idea's, very interesting.
Fabi stated after the game it was not a novel opening and definitely did not use a super computer. Be careful anytime Hikaru loses he may find an âexcuseâ for his loss. In this game he was just simply outplayed
Wow Fabi made hikaru look like an amateur
Well you need home brewed preparation and executed by a super GM if you want to take down Hikaru in any format . Fabi thought it was worth it even if meant burning a deep idea .
No it's not worth it. He said this line is known recently and played more than 20 times and not worth playing OTB.
xamse dalabay correct
gm's will be pouncing on hikaru in grand prix 2 with "known ideas" looks like
Isn't it disrespectful for a gm to play on against another gm in such an obviously lost position? Or is that only in a classical game?
Dud, Naka resigned. what ur beef?
@@GeekonaBike I wasn't talking about hikaru, I was talking about le quang. And it was a simple question because I've heard multiple gm's say that. I don't blame hikaru for playing on because he was playing against ridiculous engine prep. Instead of resigning, I'd have let the clock run all the way down out of spite.
@@DeadSezSo no it isn't ever disrespectful to play out a game of chess
@@AmericazGotTalentYT for lower rated people of course not, but I've heard hikaru, finegold and Carlson all say something to the affect of "he should just resign, it's insulting to play on from this position." Because there's a point for gms that there is literally no chance of them not converting a win. Unless time trouble is a thing which is why I said maybe sometimes it's different in rapid and blitz games. Finegold said of course a 1200 should never resign but if two 2500+ players are playing, there's a point where the other is simply wasting their time in a dead lost position
@@DeadSezSo He was banking on his a-pawn to create counterplay, which is reasonable. If he can support it well enough, eventually, Hikaru will either be tied down to the defence of the promotion square and unable to make progress, or have to sac the piece back. As soon as that pawn was lost, Le Quang resigned.
To bad, that literally a 20k USD computer from two years ago is just plain slow as heck to computers of today.
Hikaru you say a lot of false things on your stream and don't correct yourself after finding the truth.. this was not a novelty idea.. you clearly said fabi wasted his prep for this game
so why you complain...you got what you wanted...a crushing defeat....Bravo FAbi
Wen i get stuck, i push pawns? Kill his horse đ?
5th you the king hikaru!
Firstđ
First
Forth! I am a huge fan of yours Hikaru, please pin this đđđ Youâre my favorite chess player by the way!
Don't smoke crack
Sage advice
Im surprised Hikaru was so mentally defeated by Fabiano so early, complaining about a computer line. I always thought being a GM meant the pride of figuring it out no matter the situation even if you suspect you are losing. I think i understand what Bobby Fischer meant now.
I always thought Hikaru would be good enough mentally to take the world championship (especially after his recent epiphany), but i guess not.
Fabiano is such a try hard lol this isn't good chess. It's a memorization game with zero creativity. Sure, if you're only interested in making money by winning then that is fine. But it's so lame, why most of today's players don't impress me much. Engines have created a bunch of 2700s that would never have been that without engines. Especially in rapid/blitz/bullet
Good enough to beat nakamura
@@user-sv4zx4kd2p good enough to beat anyone in a rapid game so what's your point? Engines beat humans 100 times out of 100
@@DeadSezSo And Caruana is a human. Don't act like it's easy although I have to agree with you that it may not be that creative
@@user-sv4zx4kd2p grandmasters spend as much time playing chess and studying positions as regular people spend working. So no, its not impressive to remember a specific line prepared with an engine.
You take what Hikaru says at face value? Do you just believe everything he says? Fabiâs opening had been played 20x before. He did not spend time on it. Hikaru is just a sore loser
Stop crying dude đ literally prep chad hilaru you LOST
"It's either good for me, or it's not.."
-GM Hikaru Nakamura