Experimenting with VIKING SHIELDWALL
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- Jason looks back at our shield wall experiment day that we filmed in the summer of 2017. We put shieldmaker Luke’s handiwork to the test with a group of twenty brave volunteers, who clashed together in various formations of shield wall. In doing so, we explored some of the events recounted in ancient sagas to determine whether they were flights of narrative fancy or genuine reports of the flow of battle.
• Executive Producer: Jason Kingsley OBE
• Executive Producer: Chris Kingsley
• Senior Producer: Brian Jenkins
• Producer: Edward Linley
• Director: Dominic Read
• Presenter: Jason Kingsley OBE
• Director of Photography: Ed Mash
• Camera: Andy Berryman
• Stills Photographer: Kasumi
• Associate Producer: James Howard
• Production Manager: Kevin Case
• Sound Design: Liam Flannigan
• First Assistant Director: Lucy Barnes
• Audio: Julian Wallinger
• Shield Wall Participants:
• Noel Smith
• Barry White
• Chris Johnson
• Haydn Roger Dobby
• Peter Pedrero
• Russell Macleod
• Luke Woods
• Paul Cocks
• Lee Bradley
• Toby Thomas
• Neil Blackler
• Gareth Busby
• Mark Docherty
• Jasper Russell
• Alex Berryman
• Ben Turley
• Martin Gill
• Mike Fogg
• Theofil Masnikak
• Alfons Trendowicz
• Ben Moss
• Location Paramedic: Kate Tully (Location Medical Services Ltd.)
• Catering: Green Man Inn
• Music licensed from PremiumBeat
• Additional Camera: Darren Cook
• Additional Camera: Neil Phillips
• Additional Sound: Elizabeth Carlyon
Special Thanks:
• Chris Payton
• Ed Savage
Facebook: modernhistorytv/
Twitter: @ModernHistoryTV
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Shields produced by Luke Woods
I can't even imagine having twenty friends, let alone participating in a shield wall battle with them
Imagine having friends that would be willing to do that!
imagine having friends
Try LARPing or joining a historical reenactment group. You can pull off some cool things if you get enough like-minded people together. And you may even make some friends along the way.
There are loads of re-enactor groups you can join and do this.
If I was having a shield battle, I bet I could make 20 new friends :)
On one hand, adding sharp pointy objects would probably change the game. On the other hand, you could also take the shields away and add an oval ball.
Even for the wearer. It's better not to be crushed between shields holding a sword in the hand.
As an extra on Vikings I've done so many small sheild walls everything from twenty on twenty to 600+ on both sides it's so tough and eve n the small walls are insanely strong when done right . Putting a curve in the shield wall works really well to cover flanks also u can concave the curve using it to encircle the enemy Great series of videos keep it up pal
It'd be so fun to be on Vikings!
Great info Chris, sounds like hard work but good work and interesting. Is anyone doing anything to capture the info learned here? Particularly the large scale stuff.
That’s awesome. You’ve essentially got a small percentage of the battle experience our ancestors would have had.
Wow that must have been so cool.
I envy you!
Hey Chris, I was a 3rd AD on set. Can't recall your name, or using that high number on set!
As other comments have said, I think adding weapons to the mix would change things. You could get into a shoving match, but it would end quickly, and your front line would have a very high chance of dying regardless of skill level. No one would want to be in the front line if that's all that would happen to them. It seems far more likely that they'd only strike head-on when forced to, and otherwise would try to outflank the enemy. That's why the bulk of military training manuals from history are about moving in formation, you're not expected to fight that much and when you do it's against people who aren't ready to fight back.
Even reenactors probably don't have a good understanding of this, since they don't have an adequate fear of death. People don't want to pretend to outmaneuver each other for hours on end, they want to rush in and pretend to fight. But battles aren't sports, they're life or death. That's why sieges are more common historically, given the choice between fighting and sitting on your ass for a couple months, everybody chose the latter. The same goes for battles, given the choice between deadly combat and marching around until your odds improve, most people chose the latter.
@MichaelKingsfordGray *tips fedora*
@@JDahl-sj5lk actually mail isn't very common in that era, most people would only have had a helmet and only the most wealthy would have used mail. And even them would most likely not have mail on their legs and forearms and their faces and throat would be exposed. So most weapons would have been able to arm post people pretty easily, which is why I think it's more likely that people fought with their spears at a bit of a distance for most of the battle where they could effectively defend themselves. That shoving match that'd end up in a quick slaughter on both sides, so was probably usually avoided. What I could see happen is an elite unit well armored using swords and axes could try to break the distance with some less armored spearmen and get in that range. But then it's less about pushing and more about getting in an advantageous range to kill the enemy. Exception being the boar stout but that's not a prolonged shoving match and the aim is to break the ennemy line quickly, not stay shoving while other people can slip sword and axes strikes beneath or above those shields.
i understand that during wars, only a few actual battles take place. most engagements are just skirmishes, using a few people to make a quick drive by then rinse and repeat, right?
@MichaelKingsfordGray ah yes, people not being scared of death and being happy with their lives and dying for something greater, and dying in a heroic way that will go down in history = baaaad! damn fraudster priests who definitely weren't noted for typically fighting in the front-line of battle as chieftains amongst their men!!
Vikings had a whole economy based on rough linen cloth which they could have and probably did use to make very sturdy cloth armor like gambeson.
You'd think pretty much everyone would have at least that. Also getting hit in the face in a shielwall is such a big risk they'd be willing to invest and a rudimentary nasal helmet don't take anything near the time or skill to make as mail.
I have the biggest smile while watching the shield wall experiments, it's so cool to see play out!
The big guy in the blue plaid shirt is a beast! I would not want to be on the receiving end of a charge from him
You're a braver man than me Jason lol
Evan the bigger they are, the more honour to be had in the struggle!
Why do you think he got to go first in the Boar's Snout? :D
That's probably a big part of the boar snout's successfulness. Much of it is psychological.
Probably about 50/50 psychology and "having a huge beefy man stomp you"
I believe that’s Luke Woods, the guy who builds their shields.
That looks remarkably similar to a rugby scrum. I'm guessing that's not a coincidence.
Except instead of a rugby ball, you toss out a blokes severed head
No it probably is, seeing as rugby was created in the late 1800s and shield wall fights had been dead for about 700 years
@@booj3432 Yes, but rugby and soccer weren't invented the way basketball was. They were a codification of rulesets that were based on a hodgepodge of traditional games.
My thinking is that ancient war games may have evolved over time into the games we know today, nit that they directly influenced them.
@@DanGolag Right, I think so. There is a game still played annually in the English town of Aethelstone that dates to the Anglo-Saxon period. It's basically rugby meets king of the hill, and the man who has the ball by the end of the day wins. But it's full contact and old depictions are full of broken arms etc.
That was my thoughts. It's looks like a match. (I read too much Andy Capp as a kid.)
"Hey, let's go get tacos. It's taco tuesday!"
Jason: "HEY GUYS COME OVER IT'S SHIELD WALL WEDNESDAY.
Her: he's probably seing other women
Him:
😂😂 good channel name
FACTS
Shield-wall!!!
HIm
3:47
This channel really is the best living history/archaeology. Entertaining, educational, thought provoking.
Thanks!
Lindebeige had a great video where he talked about shield walls and I believe it was the same video where he talked about what we know about battle lines from classic sources and studies of bayonet charges and 1800s battles as well as tribal warfare.
Those might have been separate videos but what he said was that battle lines would often keep distance between each other, surging towards or away as men discovered their courage or sought rest. So several parts of the shieldwall may be fighting while the rest is disengaged, and the whole formation twists and shifts like a serpent as men struggle to cover friends moving forward or backward.
He also mentioned accounts of tribal warfare that worked the same way, but without formal formations. The two sides would form rough groups across from each other, often in smaller clumps of men or as two great masses of people. Braver warriors would charge across the gap and their friends would often go with them. They would skirmish and then fall back. If they pushed the enemy back, others from their side would move up, and perhaps it would inspire someone else to lead a charge. Charges could be met with force or the opponent might fall back.
Its an interesting video and I would recommend it!
On the last day of my freshman year, my history teacher organized an event where he invited anyone in the school who’s willing to join to participate in an Athens vs Sparta hoplite phalanx battle. Oh, we had actual armor on, plywood shields and bamboo poles as spears. I’ll remember that day for the rest of my life.
sounds brilliant K
Duuude! I'd stay after school for that.
That's, where rugby came from?
Ha ha yeah that's what I was thinking as well
Was gunna comment this
Never thought of this but the similarities are uncanny
I believe so. I world build and in the one society that uses shield walls they play a ɡame as children called Rover* where that utalizes wall like formations with people in the rear throwinɡ balls at the opposinɡ team, so kind of a combination of ruɡby and dodɡeball. But the point I'm takinɡ forever to make is ɡames are often used as traininɡ.
*the name's from the childhood ɡame of red rover red rover come on over
Very possibly! Also, a shield wall protecting the archers? That sounds pretty much like gridiron (I'm UK so can't call it football).
Except everyone would have spears, axes, and maybe swords. The spears would especially make a difference. Shield walls wouldn't touch each other throughout most of the battle, until one side or the other made a mistake, or over-committed, or psyched themselves up enough to charge. You might charge in for a press if you significantly outnumber the enemy, but that's a waste of spear lengths.
It would be a poking match, like a shorter-ranged "push of pike" but with more shields. Essentially, it's like a match between two phalanxes, but with bouts where hand-to-hand combat breaks out (especially if a breach is made). The sagas even spoke of "piles of the dead" where breaches happened.
When both sides got sufficiently tired and couldn't combat each other effectively (or before the battle even started) the toughest and fiercest men would challenge each other to duels. Then everyone else would watch while they rested, sometimes jumping in for vengeance, and melees sometimes resulted. This tradition stretched back to the ancient world, and Homer's epic poems lead us to believe such duels took place during the battles for Troy.
And that's leaving out all the missile combat that went on before, during, and after all the fighting. As other comments have mentioned, much of the fighting was about maneuver and morale.
This is interesting as an ancient historian.
Greeks would often put their most experienced fighters on the ends of a phalanx, because those areas were weakest and veterans would know how to compensate for that. I presume medieval armies would do the same.
I agree, it takes a lot more organisation to do well.
@@ModernKnight And a lot of discipline also. The formation is pointless if even one man panics. The formation will just collapse in on itself.
I've always thought the shield wall style of warfare (where armies would line up and have a sort of shoving match against each other til one side breaks) was the ancient equivalent of gentlemanly warfare. This formation only works if both sides really agree to fight in that way, so to speak. You demonstrated the Viking approach of putting critical mass behind one single focal point and smashing right through, the Thebans at Leuctra demonstrated that you can overload one flank by stacking men dozens of ranks deep and approaching the wall at an oblique angle so as not to present your weakened opposite flank. The enemy flank collapses and surrounding commences. The inflexibility of the shield wall was likely a contributing factor to it falling out of favour as a battlefield tactic.
But when factors went in the shield wall's favour and it worked well, it was virtually impenetrable until it broke. Casualty numbers were relatively low because of this.
It's probably my favourite battlefield formation of all time, there's so much to discuss.
Thank you for doing a video on it :) Glad I found the channel!
That dude at the front of the board snout was bezerker sized
Also worth noting, they wouldn't just be clashing shields, but trying to kill each other at the same time, absolutely brutal
As a Roman re-enactor here in the US, I have always enjoyed doing the Testudo wall and taking the brunt of the impact. Of course, it turns into a scrum but as we all know, the swords, axes and spears would have obviously had a HUGE impact on the tactics. What I was amazed at with my re-enactments is how good the Roman Sandals really were at holding the ground and incredibly comfortable....till my one dog chewed it lol. Brilliant video thanks to all who took part.
As a young man I went to Pennsylvania to fight in an epic battle... the SCA's Pennsic Wars. With a large shield in hand and an invite to join the front line I was very excited. An old Roman told me to bring a short sword with a thrusting tip and to carry it below my waist as the shield walls clashed. I did as told to amazing results. With a charge of about 8-12 men deep on either side I found that the force of the two armies suspended the front lines in mid-air for the first few moments of the battle. Shields and swords went up in the air as men where flattened against men. However, with my short sword held low I was able to stab all the bellies I could see and make a nice hole for myself as I took the ground again. This created a wedge with me at the tip. With a few polearms in the third rank or so we managed to clear to the rear of the enemy. At this point I wished I could have traded my short sword for a longer weapon to sweep the rear ranks but I learned a lot about shield walls that day.
I tought you were joking (considering your profile pic), but I looked it up and damn that shit is wild. Thanks for helping me find it. Might consider do it one time, you know, just one of those things you want to have done once in your life :).
One day... one day I will be able to afford Pensic
I participate annually, and Pennsic is probably the best place to practice and study large formation medieval tactics and warfare. Though the rules aren't terribly realistic for single combat, on the macroscopic scale, it's likely quite close to reality.
Americans are crazy..... How many injuries happen every year?
@@SirPano85 Pensic is international... people from Europe come to fight too. There are injuries and medical staff standing by. There are plenty of minor injuries but a few bruises is worth the rush and thrill of the experience. There are also very strict rules on armor and conduct and fighters must practice and qualify to join battles or tournaments.
You and your mates are awesome! I hope you continue to grow this and create bigger and better walls each year!
I've spent some considerable time in shield walls and smaller tactical shield units during my Police service in the UK, both in training and very real action. The lessons from history transpose very well to the modern era, albeit the kit's a little different. A well trained shield unit is hugely versatile and effective in open urban public-order situations, by dividing and ultimately dispersing large groups or singling out particular protagonists for capture, building entry and clearances etc etc. The team is the key, knowing what to do and when to do it, and doing it quickly (shock and awe!) so a great deal of regular training is needed to stay proficient. I wonder just how much on the job training went on in medieval times?
Great channel, love what you do, keep it up.
Great info, thanks. We just don't know how much many people trained. My guess is, as usual, some were dedicated to it, others did as little as they could get away with.
This channel is criminally under rated! I have been systematically watching your videos, and I am very grateful for the effort put in to them! :)
Thanks for watching
I would love to have a play around with shields charging people and getting beaten up like this! I am very new to your channel and can't wait to binge watch all your stuff. Great content.
It’s so educational! I am so glad I have CZcams premium so that I can binge watch videos like this without any interruptions!
The deeper the rank of a shield wall, the more resilient the formation----kinda like depicted at the battle of Leuctra whereby the Thebans deployed one of their flanks to be doubled their rank's depth than the Spartans, which ultimate lead to the collapse of the whole Spartan line of battle....
My theory with shield walls, particularly in Anglo Saxon England is that they would have two distinct components. The first would be the Fyrd, part-time soldiers full-time farmers with fairly basic kit. Shield, spear, seax, maybe a helmet. Their job was not to fight. Their job was to stand in back and provide a solid defensive formation that the professional soldiers could retire behind. I mean remember, these guys aren't professionals. They don't have the equipment or the mentality to fight properly. They'll do it in a pinch, but it's pretty far down the list of things that they want to do. Somewhere below ploughing a field and above mucking out the privy.
The other component would be the huscarls and other proper fighting men. Guys with swords, axes and mail. Men who are trained to fight. These guys would be the offensive force. They would adopt formations like the boars snout, or smaller shield walls and pop in and out of the shieldwall formed by the fyrd skirmishing with other huscarls in a sort of 'no mans land' between the fyrd's. If they needed to withdraw, something I think would be absolutely essential if they were in melee combat for any length of time they could fall back to the fyrd which could give them a few minutes to catch their breath, tend minor injuries, get the seriously injured attended to and head back out.
The overall goal of these small 'units' for lack of a better word would be to punch into the enemy fyrd and break that wall while at the same time keeping opposing huscarls from hitting their own shieldwall.
The Fyrd was made up of Freemen, small-holders, farmers etc. They would all have had weapons. Some would be improvised, but all would have owned axes, spears, long knives etc. Maybe not swords of the type that thegns & huscarls owned, but every freeman would own an axe, even if it was for lumber. Spears were cheap to make and used as a very effective mid range weapon for a non-trained warrior. Whilst they would absolutely not have the armoury, kit, or training of the Huscarls, these men would be no walkovers, and absolutely would know how to protect themselves and fight...
That's an interesting theory, although it'd require some historical elements as hints to confirm it, but that's possible, although that relies on both commanders following the same pattern. If one decided to commit his entire force offensively, because he had higher numbers or an opportunity to outflank his opponent, the opponents would have no choice but to commit all of his men as a response.
I like this theory.
I believe Lindebeige kentuoned that shield walls were reported to move in and out of contact with the enemy so this could explain how that worked.
And to the other commenters, the men of the fyrd could and would fight, but the vast majority of people are likely to be more concerned with staying alive than with fighting and would live to hang back. The benefit of the shieldwall (and formations in general) is men will want to stay in it to be protected by their neighbors shields. You don't need to be a great warrior to huddle behind your shield and pray, but the better able you are to defend your section if the line, the less likely the enemy will want to advance on that section.
The shieldwall is pretty flexible in terms of how straight the line must be and this can allow braver sections to engage the enemy...
Love your videos. Always interesting. The only thing missing from your clash of shield walls is, while they are pressed together, pushing on each other, they would have axes, swords, and spears in the other hand going over and under the shield walls. I'm finding it hard to believe two shield walls coming together would last very long once you add in combatants being taken out like this.
Right. I think they wouldn't even approach each other, there were fucking spears everywhere and you wouldn't like to be exposed. And the second line attacking with axes if you come closer? As much as I liked previous videos, this one is completely pointless and out of context.
Unfortunately you didn't consider the amount of men available to replenish the shield wall
@@piotrwojtyra7766 "I think they wouldn't even approach each other, there were fucking spears everywhere and you wouldn't like to be exposed"
The ancient-Greece shield walls (phalanx) fights were described as pushing/shoving matches, similar to what you see in this video. There, they mostly used spears. Spears are probably better for such fights than other weapons because it allows people in the second/third row to participate in combat (but people up front are probably better off with shorter weapons).
We also know the Romans used shield walls and they too did the pushing/shoving matches (their strategy evolved from the phalanx). The Romans had short swords. So, it seems no matter what weapon people used, the pushing/shoving strategy was always considered to be useful.
We don't know that much about the specifics of the shoving matches. But thinking about it logically, you cannot keep it up nonstop. That means that if no side managed to break through, there had to be a pause at some point. Allowing people at the front to be relieved and catch their breath. If you take that in account, then it becomes quite plausible for the fighting to go on for many hours.
In addition, if your formation pushes hard enough, it becomes physically almost impossible to use your weapon, for both sides. In such case, you have to focus on pushing or risk falling down.
This is an amazingly underrated channel. I hope more people will find this. You guys need to seriously think about some form of marketing - the content is amazing! How come I never heard of you?
My experience from fighting as an outsider in several reenactment huscarl battles (helmets a must - headshots allowed) , all over germany, is a feeling of unity. Being part of a unit. You do heroic shit - you "die". So the best way to come out of it alive is to protect the brothers next to you, blocking spears and dane axe blows from the backlines. Frontrows are basically meatshields - or in the boarsnout a "meathammer". No matter what ...pain, injuries, etc... the rest is like all the other contact sports. Afterwards there are rarely hard feelings and at the after battle party everyone can praise himself and is a hero. Some people argue they dont believe in shieldpushing but in my opinion they underestimate the advantage of momentum on the battlefield. Its some much easier to fight going forwards than backwards and its so much easier to encircle or do other tactical shit when you have the control of the frontrow and the flanks.
in hooliganfights they have dudes running around in the back with the job of pushing where it needs pushing
if those people do it, proffesionals hundreds of years ago probably did it too. just a guess
My favourite scenes from Cornwell's Last Kingdom series of books is always the battles, but mainly the shield walls. So exciting.
Now imagine this happening with guys in the second and third lines trying to poke through gaps with their spears. Truly frightening ! Great channel !!
Yet another fantastic example of experimental archaeology.
thanks for your support
I watched all of these shield episodes. Very very interesting, thank you Jason and thank you to your friends♥️
Our pleasure!
From eperienece in my job some of these tactics are still used today in riot control situations ect. Very effective. But the other side doesn't tend to have a shield wall (luckily for us.) Very effect great to watch.
I love shieldwalls. As a softcombat enthusiast I can tell you that one of the most important roles of the shieldwall was to protect the men against throwing weapons, arrows, slinged stones, javelins, and simply anything a person can throw with his hands. We see in movies that arrow shots are always deadly, but the truth is that one really just need to make a person's eye bleed to stop him from fighting, it was much more like what you see in modern day riots in that sense; you're just trying to not get a flying object in your face or head.
criminally underrated channel
Medieval Warrior:"We have perfected the Shield Wall fighting style!"
Spartan:"Hold my wine."
Spartans and his commander are very tactical so they mastered and discovered shield wall first (i think)
Spartans and their commander
I find that warriors tend to gravitate to certain techniques by a bloody form of natural selection. Physical techniques such as a shield wall would also use some principles we still use today but instead of battle we do sports. The two that immediately come to mind are stamina techniques used across sports where two individuals or more meet; the rugby scrum being the most applicable whilst individual skill and strength follows the principles found in wrestling, judo, arm wrestling jujitsu where holding someone holds a position to conserve energy and attacking to expend it but gain ground/momentum. The group dynamic of a shield wall seems fundamentally the same as a scrum in rugby. I was fortunate to play at a good level so I can immediately see parallels and things that would not be common knowledge. Now that the rules scrums engaging at a distance has changed to stop injuries, it is less prominent but prior to this there was a complicated game of subtle outmanoeuvring where the best props who effectively hold the shields are not judged by how much they can push back their opponent but rather whether they can put the other person where they need to be. The actual power behind the scrums pushing ability are the people just behind who as I mentioned before have the job of holding or pushing but requires a lot of core strength. The sides and back keep the shape most importantly for battle, communicate was is going elsewhere and deliver force as necessary. If a shield wall is indeed the same functionally as a scrum/maul in rugby then it stands to reason that the same tactics are implemented; weakening the certain so you can peel away with the ball, counter pushing as soon as you feel weakening, a boar rush as mentioned is also employed in rugby and more.
Not surprised that his friends are as crazy as he is.
Vikings, raise the Shield Wall, hold the front line, fight til death.
Kevin Mora amon fucking amarth
It would be interesting to see this experiment replicated with 10x the men.
I was in a shield wall in a reenactment. I can only describe it as like being in a meat grinder. It's hard to swing, hard to defend against anything coming under or over the shields, hard to even see if something is getting through. The world shrinks down to the person you're pressing against, the people you've locked your shield with, and whoever is pressing against your back. There's not as much noise as you'd expect: it's mostly the clattering of the shields against each other, the grunts of effort, and maybe a few shouts of encouragement from a few people on either side. If it had been an actual medieval battle, and not a reenactment, I probably would've been terrified.
these videos always manage to make me smile
It is refreshing and a joy to learn about history from someone with such enthusiasm and I thank this channel for hours of great videos.
I really appreciate the little experiments you do to try and gain a realistic frame of reference. The best Shield techniques I've seen for individual combat come from a reconstructive historian; Roland Warzecha aka Dimicator. As for group formations though this is the first I've seen that really analyzed it in detail. Love the Great Work!
It was a start, all fairly inexperienced people, like a hastily assembled fyrd, and no weapons or armour, but we learnt a lot by just doing it. I’m sure we made many mistakes, but that was the point.
Why would they even get into shoving range like that? They had spears! Stay out of spear range!
During a charge that's kind of what happened. One side or the other would charge, and as they charged they would hit with their spears first. Then they'd be in close enough for the shoving match.
Well, they never shove like THAT. They'd be trying to hit each other with axes and swords, at this range, not bury their heads in their shields. This probably happened when so many spears were broken/lost that the spear line was thin enough to push through. Especially if both sides were eager to engage.
Agree, it seems unrealistic to get so close to an enemy like that so he can just stab a knife in your groin. Think this kind of situation was an exception. People probably preferred to take jabs at each other from a distance.
@@mortenovergaard7397 no, that is pretty much how the Romans fought. Using the javelins first the sword to stab over or under the shields. The armour used during the imperial era also shows this, lots of protection in the shoulders and head because the shield would cover the legs
@@Dantick09 Yes, but the Roman method was developed to fight disorganized "barbarians" who would hack and slash at them with large swords or axes. By covering behind his large shield, the Roman fighter would draw the barbarian in and stab at his unprotected legs or abdomen with his short sword. The barbarian fighter would thus be at a disadvantage; being unable as he was to use his large weapon at such a close distance. As for clashes between European tribes armed with spears I think the most likely scenario was a back and forth spear-battle in which each spear-fighter would jab at the enemy while staying in formation with his own troops, thus receiving some cover and support from their shields. I think this to be the most realistic setup given that 1) battles usually lasted several hours, sometimes several days - thereby indicating a back-and-forth controlled exchange, rather than the hollywood brawl we are used to seeing, and 2) it's simply psychologically very hard to get a guy in the front rank to sacrifice his life with almost 100% certaintly by getting him into 1 inch distance from the enemy in the first few seconds of a fight so that each side can knife each other at the same time. Just doesn't fit human psychology as I see it.. Humans who fight want to utilize their skills, look for openings, jab and retreat, seek support from comrades etc. They want to hurt the enemy without getting hurt themselves.. Look at any controlled fight - MMA, boxing, even modern infantry engagements etc. They all resemble that pattern: It's a pick your shot/blow mentality - rather than the all-out melee (which was rare, and only very late in battles) put on display by Ridley Scott and the other Hollywood guys who know nothing about - and care nothing for - historical realism. Jesus what a long reply
I really enjoyed the whole shield series and especially find the composition and behaviour of shield walls fascinating. I have never been in one but imagine that there is both a physical and psychological strength to them. I would guess that they were particularly useful for poorly trained troops such as the Anglo-Saxon Fyrds (forgive the spelling, I mean the old hasty militias). It would be fascinating to do more trials with much bigger numbers. How about reaching out to your 256K subscribers and see if you can get some battlefield numbers together? Maybe 1000 volunteers for a weekend or something like that. I would come along.
nice idea, be a big thing to try to organise though.
Yes, I can appreciate that, I often have to coordinate things with large numbers of people. I could help out in that area if it was something that you were serious about. We would have to stress the volunteer aspect in order to keep costs down.
Watched all these and thoroughly enjoyed them, but I think this is my favourite. Thanks for making them!
i noticed as men pushed shields get higher blocking vision and leaving the legs very vulnerable.
the boar snout is a column in modern terms and must have men several deep or it will collapse upon itself. rugby type games were great for training men to push and pull.
Ok so. The method for breaking a shield wall, and crimping it (Crimping is the process whereby you double team each person on the break). First thing to understand is a good shield wall is multiple layers deep. not just 1 layer of people. But for those circumstances where a shield wall is only 1 layer, the lead person of each pulse charge (a pulse charge is where you sent 3 groups of 3 to break a hole and crimp, firmly push/pulls their sword fist into their shield edge creating a very shallow wedge, with the sword or weapon extending backward and covering their head. Then aiming for the overlap point between two shields directly in between two opposing shield bearers, charge and punch forward with both hands with the wedge created by the shield edge and the sword fist into that overlap point. Lead guy in the charge usually gets killed if they can't protect their right side, but they have to push through far enough to create a gap for the second and third charging person to take out the person to the right of the gap. Then the follow on pulses take out the guy on the left and begin the crimp. With a center grip round or teardrop instead of a strapped heater the sword fist is placed on the edge of the shield but further out from the body creating an even shallower wedge to punch through. The tension between the sword fist and the shield is maintained by twisting the shield in the center grip until the back of the shield is strongly pressing against the left elbow, with the shield being held more like a punch shield instead of a more traditional vertical center grip.
Center grip rounds work better in a wedge formation not a shield wall/line.
I love your videos so much! You are so well spoken and clearly do your research. I love how you really paint a picture of what it was like on those battlefields. Thank you for your work!
A battle between two shield-walls seems extremely analogous to World War I. It's a stratagem that's at the defensive-firepower-numbers extremity of the warfare spectrum rather than the offensive-tactics-experience end. If you're using a shield-wall as your strategy, it stagnates the battle, & so you're best off wearing the enemy down by attrition, which you can do by placing archers in the vacant space behind the shield-wall.
But why would two shield walls colapse into each other like this though? The guy who's sandwitched in the front row can't do anything. He's just sitting there forcing to move the enemy shield wall back but he's completely unable to deal any damage. Unless the enemy shield wall had their back to a cliff, I don't see the tactical advantage in actually pushing like this.
GregTom2 remember they would have weapons. If you’ve seen shield walls by reenactors, it’s fairly common to have men with spears behind them
There's a lot to criticise in this exercise and it is far from realistic. Your critical thinking functions properly, it is just as you say. If people would do this in real life, the first men would be hacked to pieces.
the single most intimidating game of red rover
Do not forget, blows would be "rainning" all over.
Axes and swords falling on the top, seax poking by the slits of the middle and spears bitting the legs.
this is really cool, especially since I've been reading the Saxon Chronicles by Bernard Cornwell. It's awesome to see a shield wall and boar snout in actual action.
That mate of yours who formed the tip of the boar snout is one machine of a man.
He really is.
I'm sorry mate you are missing some key factors in your test. Yes you had way to few guys to accurately simulate shield walls clashing but everyone also had empty weapon hands and were using their weapon hands to support and push on their shields. You won't get the counter clockwise rotation in that fashion. Going shield to shield you would need to turn your shoulder into your shield to push or brace it while keeping hold of your weapon. You would also have a constant barrage of blows from above and below, guys constantly trying to strike over shield or slice into your legs from below. I've fought in shield walls of hundreds with thousands upon the field. If you want to get a good feel mate, come to the US. Go to Pennsic. If nothing else you would get tons of folks willing to help you properly simulate it.
Love your channel btw.
Having participated in an SCA Pennsic War and a few other large SCA battle events, I can attest that the basic shoving and bracing against the shoving is quite true to form, despite the lack of weapons used in your experiment. I can also attest that a shield-wall of large roman-style scutums will hold much longer than an equal sized wall of round shields, due to superior leg/lower body protection. I have witnessed the clockwise-rotation of a 30+ man shield-wall from within a shield-wall. But I've also seen this natural tendency stopped by our side placing all our left-handed fighters on the left flank of the formation. We did this after realizing our foe was trying to use this tendency to counter our terrain advantage of thick patches of briars on both ends of where we'd positioned our shield-wall. This tactic worked great, btw. We held our position against a larger force for long enough for reinforcements to arrive and then we used a wedge/boar's snout formation of our biggest fighters on one flank and rolled up their whole line. It was very educational being a part of this particular shield-wall!I like your vids, keep up the great work!
Agreed! Hail from Caid!
Derek 5446 Back then I hailed from Ansteorra. Pennsic was a great learning experience.
Well done, these are fine explanations of what we know and what we can assume from history; insights are given in an objective and defined, yet open ended and intriguing way.
this will help with me bannerlord straty
Sturgians got nothing on the Vlandians
That's awesome, and I love your enthusiasm!
Reminds me of a rugby scrum in many ways!
One thing during the first shield wall I noticed were that the men were lifting their shields high up trying to push through the line. You did not have weapons during these tests but that is an important factor that affects behavior. The threat of actually being stabbed would keep the shields low and make the line last far longer.
This is brilliant
This is fantastic as always, thanks so much for posting:-)
Our pleasure!
I feel like with most of your men having long spears you want to keep your distance and just attempt to stab through the enemy vanguard's defenses. Pushing in this manner seems like it would neutralize the reach advantage of a spear.
Ever norse man owns a saxe or short sword which is highly effective in a shield wall in my experience in reacting
Such a Chad, flaunting his twenty friends like that...
Cool vid. Very similar to Greek Hoplite Phalanx- even the turning of it. Closest modern equivalent- a Rugby Scrum.
Thx for this, nice video :)
man would be awesome to see a big event to bring people into a shieldwall and see how it would have look like with drone shots etc.
next time should get a drone to film this as another angle
In many cultures the shield was valued more than the sword, so corporal punishment for soldiers losing their shield was much more severe than losing their sword. After all, a shield does not just protect yourself, but when used in a shield wall, it also protects your comrades.
can't imagine hearing thousands of people war crying, and then you getting squished in the frontlines while being killed by someone trying to swing over the shields.
it's as brutal as it gets
@3:10 love your videos just wanted to add that, based of my readinɡ, it seems like another option a crafty commander miɡht consider is curlinɡ the ends of the shield wall creatinɡ a rudimentary shield fort to try and protect their flanks.
Have you heard of this ever? I know sometimes, saddly, books can be misleadinɡ so I can't say this happened for certain, but that's what I read.
I do a larp (empire) where there are regularly 1000 vs 1000 battles. Thick shield walls are common - because they work well against so many things. As its in a fantasy setting not a period one - you get match ups that aren't historical like swiss type pikes vs Saxon/viking type shield walls. Normally the people in the shield wall die horribly if the opposing group have even a small number of pikes - because they can stab further than swords or one handed spears that you can use with shields.
The role my unit has been in primarily is as a reserve unit, that smashes through shield walls where they are thin (emulating the role of cavalry - horses aren't allowed in the game as they are hard to make safe in the charge). So having never read the sagas - we have ended up using something similar to a boar snout formation.
You get lots of strange moments where the wall has broken in one place- and your now on the other side- and people are moving through the gap but only a few meters away the people in the shield wall don't know that there is a a break, and they need to face the enemy behind them.
Shield walls are fun, but I have vast admiration for anyone in real life who fought in one. From my experience whilst they might be necessary, shield wall fighting is very bloody. Like pike formations part of what the guys behind you are doing is being an obstacle to you running away when its abundantly clear you are going to die if you stay there.
great comment and quite interesting how the focus narrows in this sort of combat. You don't know what someone is doing 10 feet away.
This looks like a good source of stress relief
I wonder if a 2 handed pointed shield, "like a sword tip", would yield better results at punching through a shield wall...I mean since the lead is going to be chopped down anyway, might as well make them fully shielded
If you look at history, the tactical formations have not evolved that much. The Germans in WW1 and WW2 used a wedge formation to punch through static defensive lines. Then, things like the layout of a chess board or rugby scrum all look very similar.
The Romans and Greeks fought in shield walls........ so possibly later Europeans picked the idea up from mainly the Romans who conquested far and wide.
I also have a feeling that Shaka may have met some educated Arab traders who explained Roman battle tactics to him.......... maybe he never got the full concept of their battle formations because horses would have been rare in the tsetse fly regions............ and the role of archers were either overlooked during the explanations to him or not fully comprehended.
The Iklwa and gladius blades are a similar length.
I often look at these shield walls and think why didn't they try breaking them up by cutting the legs out from under the enemy or throw out caltraps in front of the wall if they were going to hold their position.
10/10 would follow the big lad in a Boar Snout formation to break a shield wall!
What a unit!
And it was me he was aiming for too! I didn't stand much chance.
@@ModernKnight Not going to lie, I would have aimed for you as well!
The curse of the "Main character" so to say!
Brilliant videos by the way!
Lol, and thanks.
Slightly different period but Classical historians debate whether Greek hoplites mainly fought by pushing their shields together is a sort of giant-scrum, or whether they stood a few paces apart and jabbed at each other with spears.
Have you read Bernard cornwells The last Kingdom books? they have a very good decryption of what its like to fight in a shield wall.
craig k great books, but written with no knowledge of actual fighting as far as I know. I'd be careful using it as a reference point.
My favourite author. His battle descriptions are very vivid and feel like you are there. His Shield Walls are a scary place to be with both sides hesitant to clash unless they are full of Ale or Mead. The Warlord Chronicles are my favourite but I enjoy Uhtred also.
@@jasonkingsley2762 Cornwell does pretty extensive research on his books periods but above all else he is a storyteller. I reckon he has a good grasp on what it would be like in a shield wall.
@@jasonkingsley2762 hes been reacting in Europe and England for a long time so his knowledge is very legitimate
I reckon the bloke at the front of the boar snout would be crushed to death, imagine the power of 499 men pushing you through the shield wall of an opposing team
I always liked shields, even in games. People always asked me why I play tanks in MMO, or why in my rpg games, or even mount and blade... i always have shield...
Shields are cool stuff.
now to answer the question: how to avoid being crushed by allied shields while trying to poke at the enemies with pointy objects. also, if it is indeed possible to maneuver said pointy objects with allies pushing against your backs with them shields.
Trying to imagine Hastings. An Anglo-Saxon shield wall on a hill top with protected flanks. Charge after charge for almost 9 hours. I agine the extraordinary condition those men, on both sides, must have been in. What a lovely, informstive video.
If I saw the point man in that Boar's Snout formation coming at me, he wouldn't have to break through... I'd be moving FAR out of his way!
put a big brute or three hundred in the front and look out. Great video
I have the feeling that the team where the big guy with the beard was in, always won. Seems to have to do a lot with individual strength.
They didn't push shields, because it would have been easier and safer to just stab each other from a distance. If what you are doing happened in real battle someone would pull out a dagger or sword and stab you in the face or head, etc.
To this day I still wonder why opposing armies never simply had a group of soldiers throw hooks attached to long metal chains or ropes over the enemy's shield wall and then pull them back towards their own shield wall prior to a charge; just to destabalize them.
"GET OVER HERE!"
These guys should watch the videos put out by the Society for Creative Anachronism, The Estrella and Penzig Wars.
Soldiers during those days must have been very strong
I know its a late post, but here goes. When you say, at 4:28, that the warrior at the tip of the boarsnout probably got killed, I think you forget that this warrior probably was one of the most heavily armed guys on the battlefield. My suspicion is that this warrior was one favored by the king he served, and thus, he had access to the very best arms and armor. Great and brave warriors was a rare commodity, and kings would go to great lengths to secure this resource, namely by armoring them to the best of their ability.
Nice idea, but who knows. I was at the tip and basically was lifted off my feet.
Amon Amarth: Vikings!
Raise the shield wall!
Hold the front line!
Fight 'til death!
War became an evil when individual combat was abandoned in favour of large immobile formations.
The police are trained in basic shield wall tactics. When the RIOT SQUAD. Try’s for a snatch on agitators
So this is how "Rugby "got started.
i think i read about the triangular formation once and they called it "odins arrow" in the book, but i could never find anything online really, nice that you talked about the boar snout
I wonder what was the max depth of a shield wall before people in the first rows get squeezed to death.