STOP Doing This To Batman.
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- čas přidán 7. 04. 2023
- Why the Batman: The Animated Series understands the true nature of Batman, and some others, just don't.
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Music:
"Night On the Docks" - Kevin McLeod
All footage in this video was compiled and edited by me, although clips were used from Warner Bros. Inc, Fox, and CW. - Hry
Hello everyone! Just an update, parts of the video had to be cut out do to copyright. So, in some parts it may seem like I didnt finish a thought, or idea! (This will be fixed in future videos, only this one will have removed footage!) Sorry for the inconvience!
I think the Batman 2 will have him become this Batman You talked about in this video
Spider-Man would literally never mock a villain for crying over the loss of a loved one. In fights he pokes fun at the enemy to screw with them and make them angry which makes them mess up and it gives him an opening.
Peter knows when to take things seriously and he always has some empathy for his villains, enough so that if something happened which caused a villains outbursts, he can help.
i didn’t mean for the death of the loved ones, i meant while locking criminals up in general. I understand how it could get confused though.
There was the case of Mindworm. He'd never make that mistake again.
Peter's quips are typically two sided. They can be away for him to alleviate his own anxiety, but can also give him an edge because it can make his enemies make mistakes.
And Peter is usually trying to help his enemies overall. Lizard, Sandman, Doc Ock in some versions, Harry, he's still going to quip with them but he also wants to get them help or get through to them. Compassion is one of Peter's greatest strengths.
If Spider-Man's not joking, you're a dead man walking.
@@SeleneDethly Another reason he constantly taunts his villains is so they will focus their anger at him rather than bystanders or hostages.
We tend to forget that Batman lives in the darkness so others dont have to, without succumbing to it himself.
That is THE whole point of his character in my eyes.
He merely adopted the dark. He wasn't born in it, molded by it.
Mmmmm…. He kind of DOES succumb to it…. It’s just that he never goes over the edge.
@@Darth_Bateman That's pretty valid actually, but I dont see Batman the same way as most do. To me it's not just the trauma that drove him to being Batman, but the understanding that came with that trauma.
That someone has to use the darkness that plagues a place like Gotham to do something greater, even if that leads to the loss of self. (Which it did because as he says, he is Batman)
@@masquerader101 that’s fairs
@@masquerader101 yes thats what the Gotham TV show version does perfectly.
I miss the days of the humanized heroes, not these... "gods". Seeing Batman stop to console a child, The Flash help move furniture for an elderly woman, or Superman stopping a teenager from taking her life means far more to me than how they're gonna stop Alpha Reincarnated Thanos of Earth 2099! Lol
DC would be Alpha Reincarnated Darkseid, but your point still stands. XD
@@rhunter42dragon fair point
Well… maybe you should pick up some comic books then…?
@@CaptainRockoBD No, cuz all of the newer ones are terrible and all of the older I've read a lot of. Terrible advice from someone who clearly hasn't been paying attention to the most recent comics from DC and Marvel absolutely fail. Dark Horse maybe isn't as bad, but at this point Manga is beating all American made comics hand over fist.
Respectfully disagree. That outlook is very dated in my opinion. I'm not saying they shouldn't do all that, but I personally feel these stories told in the last decade are also very interesting and engaging.
if your batman can't comfort a child then you created a punisher with long ears
I like that in the beginning of BvS Bruce Wayne is comforting a child that he had saved from being crushed who had just lost there parents.
@@91MoonKnight same
90s Punisher was like that, though.
the punisher is perfectly capable of comforting a child.
I understood that reference
That’s what I kinda like about the ending to The Batman because Bruce realizes that if he lets himself get consumed by vengeance he’d end up like Nigma. So he has to represent hope and not fear for Gotham.
There a cut out scene where batman goes to the joker and joker says that barman and the riddler are thr same person. That's is why batman and the riddler never meat in physical person unless separated by a glass window. The window represents them being a reflection of eachother. The joker even points out that batman believes that the people the riddler killed deserved what they got. He believed in what the riddler doing but he was cought up in his bo kill rule to gall thru with it. Batman was even useless thruout the movie, too cought up in playing the riddlers game to save anyone and not indie he fail to stop the city from being flooded but people died because of his negligence. Barman's criminals are a reflection of his psyche and his illnesses
Yes, I feel like a lot of people don't get why i LOVE the batman, and it's my favorite batman movie.
It's because he let go of the vengeance and become a hero for people to look to for hope.
The villain's should fear hin, but the citizens should be hopeful when they see the batsignal in the sky.
He represents fear to criminals. In one fan movie he says hope is fickle and you have to take that away from people so they can grieve and move on.
Let's himself get consumed by vengeance? It's in his audio card "I am vengeance, I am the night, I am BATMAN!"
Who's Nigma
@@mjsugod1385 Edward Nigma (sometimes spelled Nygma (and sometimes Nashton… for… some reason…)) is the real name of Riddler, a play on the word ‘enigma’.
I want to add something to the comments already written... Writers of Batman seem to leave out the Man part. Batman IS just a man with training and gadgets. He is NOT infallible. However, he does his best to LOOK that way. So you have scenes where he shrugs off hits that would completely incapacitate lesser men, but you should also have the scene where he goes back to the Batcave and takes off the suit and see him with deep bruises and broken ribs, Alfred already there with bandages and pain meds that Bruce always refuses because it makes his mind slow, but Alfred always finds a few missing when he checks later.
You do need the scenes where Batman kicks the crud out of cronies and henchmen but also the scenes where he sits with the traumatized child who he just saved.
As I said earlier, Batman is the ideal Human. He can be hurt, he can be killed ,and he knows it. That's why he goes out of his way to make Contingencies and plans to stop everything. He fears death just as anyone else, but his mission must be completed. And what is that mission? To make sure the world gets to the place where no child has to watch his parents killed in front of them. No child has to witness the things he did.
I agree. Batman's greatest strength is his mind. Despite the fact that he is limited by his humanity, he always finds a way to outsmart his opponents without using brute force.
People have to remember the "Knight" part of the Dark Knight. A great example of that was an old comic where a couple of cops share stories where Batman is just saving people from "normal" problems, such as suicide, PTSD, and child endangering. It shows a much more compassionate side that not many get to see.
@@nerychristian Also, I would say that Batman's greatest strength is his empathy and his capacity for love. While "love" is not the first thing that comes to mind about Batman, it is the foundation of his character. It is his empathy for the downtrodden that gives him the strength to fight back against those that seek to endanger them. It is his compassion for his villains that allows him to give them a second chance, a chance not many would extend. Finally, it is his love for his family that makes him try to prevent them from becoming Robin or Batgirl, because he wants to keep them safe and loved. However, he loves them so much that he knows that he can't stop them, and thus offers the best training and protection he can, even though he worries every night.
Well-said, sir!
To me, the most annoying thing is when Batman is shown as "the smartest man who ever lived" rather than as "the world's greatest detective". If Batman is the smartest man who ever lived, then what is the point of him being a "vigilante". The character will instead be similar to Ozymandias from Watchmen (but a sane version). If he's so smart, then Batman won't have to bother getting his hands dirty eradicating crime directly from place to place in Gotham, because he will definitely think of the most effective solution.
Batman should not be the smartest, but he supposed to be the most clever. That's what makes him as one of the greatest detective in all of comics.
His IQ is 210 (if I remember correctly), which is inhumane
I think the problem is narrative escalation. He's routinely put beside peers who are more powerful than he, so they have to keep Flanderizing him as some superhuman who's super smart and super strong. Which defeats the whole purpose of Batman who is supposed to be a superhero in spite of being a mere man with limitations
He works better as a standalone hero, not someone who has to struggle to stand shoulder to shoulder with demi-god like beings
@@SonofTiamat Actually, there is proof showing that Batman can stand side by side with superheroes in the Justice League animated series. Thankfully though, he's usually a part-time league member in the DCAU seeing how his priorities are mostly in Gotham. In terms of a scenario where the struggle is Bruce having to measure up with these demi-god-like heroes whom he works alongside with, this message was actually tackled in the two-part episode "Injustice For All". That episode showed off Bruce's actual strengths without coming across as patronizing or pandering. DCAU Bruce is smart, but he's mostly clever and perceptive, not downright god levels of intelligent.
Whilst he did initially attempt to take on the villains of that two-parter by himself to secretly make up for his earlier defeat, he was quickly apprehended by them, no thanks to Joker of course. However, he was able to get out of the situation via his wit, not his intelligence (even though it's sometimes synonymous). He managed to trick both Solomon Grundy and Cheetah, and managed to make a secret ally out of Ultra-Humanite. And even when one of these tricks did ultimately allow him to free himself, instead of just taking the villains down by his lonesome, his first action was to contact Martian Manhunter, so that the League could arrive to help deal a much more grander blow. Batman has defeated powerful villains before, but he isn't dumb enough to take on several super-powered ones all by himself, especially when he's deprived of most of tech and weapons.
The entire episode was meant to show that Bruce did have a role to play when it came to being a part of a team consisting of superheroes. Plus, it was never about Batman trying to one-up the League, but to make up for whatever he failed to do earlier that hurt the team's actions. It was almost like Bruce was trying to prove to himself that he can support the group against such extreme endeavors in his own way, even though to us, there wasn't much he needed to prove. Heck, he's proven to be such a valued member of the League that he's managed to make later members self-concious about their own contributions and capabilites.
An example of this would probably be with Wildcat in an episode of Justice League Unlimited, The Cat And The Canary. It's mentioned that despite Wildcat being just as physically capable as Batman, he doesn't possess the utilization of gadgets like the dark knight. The entire episode was about Wildcat struggling with a similar problem that Batman went through in the previous series, but it's all about contributing to the League and being a personal matter for the person in question (in Ted's case, he was also going through a mid-life crisis). None of the other heroes ever judged them for what they lacked and they do see value in their capabilities.
The entire series also shows that Batman can play well with others and is able to come through for his teammates when they themselves, who are far more powerful than he is, are in peril. And that's mostly because the series, and the DCAU as a whole, likes to play on both the strengths and weaknesses of all it's characters. And in terms of the main Justice League members, each one has something to contribute where the others may lack in, helping in giving a rather balanced dynamic between all of them (even if it doesn't appear noticeable superficially).
@@wiggard and they say he doesn't have superpowers ahah
@Bastien Millecam well pretty much he doesn't. He's the smartest human being sometimes and sometimes he's just a great detective, we'll never know.
One thing you forgot to mention though, was the ending of the new batman movie. The whole point of that movie was to convey exactly what you said here. Batman's entire arc is based on the fact that he realizes he can no longer just be fear and vengeance and he has to grow and become more empathetic and a symbol of hope for the people of Gotham.
He added text that said the new movie was “Good as hell”.
@happy little trees 239 you are definitely right, this movie definitely wanted to tell its own story like they always do. I guess this one just resonated with me the most. I wonder if they'll ever make a comic book movie that's accurate to the character and stories lmao it feels like its impossible for a filmmaker to just love a character and not want to personalize it. So far the only adaptation that seemed to get batman right has been the arkham games but even then its shaky.
I love the character of Batman, but, hate him as a symbol of hope. His whole persona is to instill fear. For the public to be comfortable with him , betrays his whole scheme. Bruce Wayne, can be a charitable philanthropist. Batman , must be feared .
I'm glad you brought up the comparison between Batman and Punisher. There's nothing inherently wrong with the Punisher as a character, but that's not who Batman is as a character, and more media needs to start showing the kinder, gentler side of Batman that we all know is there and love it when it's allowed to be shown, and not just have him be edgy, grimdark vengeance-man all for the sake of seeming "cool."
Allow me to reference the line that perfectly sums this up; "Can you imagine your Batman comforting a scared child? If yes, congratulations, that’s a genuine Batman! If no, you haven’t written Batman, you’ve just written Punisher in a funny hat."
wow another black and white mindset... fantastic
imagine thinking that it's all for seaming 'cool' lil bozo, batman is an insane individual who's obsessed with taking down crime...
and you're wrong about the last part about the punisher with him scaring a child especially having a black and white mindset of batman not scaring a child therefore he's a genuine batman... punisher goes out his way to explore the darkest parts of humanity and with him going across the world to kill human traffickers etc. batman is such a stuck up and that he uses the fear of death to criminals as he tortures them but can't kill one person that is irredeemable
@@ooneybird27 That reminded me of one panel from a comic (I can't remember which one) but Batman is going to have a talk with Red Hood. Beside them is a kid that I believe they had just rescued. In order to distract the kid, Batman gives him a lollipop. When Jason asks him about this, he says that it helps keep children occupied and quiet if they happen to be close to a crime scene.
@@ooneybird27 Character defining. That line is why I wish to see the blue and gray suit in live action. Thankfully Batfleck is wearing a blue and gray suit in The Flash. Hopeful Batman supremacy!
I do wish to see a suit very close to the 1970s Neal Adam Batsuit though. Something like the version from Batman: Arkham Knight. I always loved when Batman's utility belt was darker, with the capsules and pouches being brighter
That actually reminds me of a book I really enjoyed called JLA: Pain of the Gods. It's about most of the league dealing with loss: Green Lantern can't be two places at once, Flash isn't faster than smoke inhalation, Diana almost dies, and Superman allows another hero to help and inadvertently allows him to die.
There's a scene where the league visits the family of the falle hero and while all the other characters are focused on the wife, Batman kneels down next to the toddler and helps her with her blocks/toys.
I always really enjoyed that moment, especially since he kinda doesn't get much to do in the book. It shows his compassion.
I think “The Batman” did a good job tackling this because at the end he ends up acknowledging and accepting that now he’s a symbol of hope to the people in contrast to the beginning of the movie where the guy he saves tells him not to hurt him
Ben Affleck’s Batman is what if Batman went wrong. If Batman went too hard into the paint, that why he’s so different in Snyder’s justice league because he kind of comes back to reality, it doesn’t happen immediately because he kills people in the warehouse scene but at the funeral you can tell something is different. I still understand why people didn’t like that take on him, but I feel like Zach had a clear reason for that in his mind that just didn’t quite translate to the audience.
It's because we have nothing to compare that fall into darkness against. We don't see him in the role of proper batman before he descends into the villain killing madness. And he takes a back seat in both Justice leagues, though the snyder cut did give him a bit more time.
In short, it was a rush Job. I'm sure that Ben Afflek would have been a great batman if given proper time to be fleshed out. Instead the poor man got jerked around and rushed, which has probably turned him off of superhero movies for good. Apparently daredevil made him weary of them to begin with. It seems like the DCEU team struggled to treat its actors well overall (Henry Cavill?)
@@thecreatornooj1328 there was way too much Superman (the character that was already set up) in a Batman&Superman film
The problem is that people have to like a character to grow attached to him and to follow him on his changes. Zach Snyder's Batman starts off as an incredibly judgemental monumental dick. If we saw him being a better person in the past it would be a different story, but this is how we are introduced to him. And then its very hard to care when he becomes better.
If Snyder shower more of HOW batman got to that point it'd be more understandable, but even with that idk. When batman does kill in series, it's a one off thing that is a massive issue to him, not something he just does to thugs willy nilly. I loved how it was portrayed in miller's the dark knight animated 2 parter, he never kills anyone, and is still proactively against guns, however he says when fighting joker in the tunnel of love, "All the people I've murdered, and I let you live" and he ends up basically killing joker by paralizing him and injuring him enough for joker to snap his neck on his own without the use of his hands. So batman pretty much killed joker and you can see the immense impact it has on him for "breaking". Once you take away his moral compass without solid reason and make it something so normal for him to do, you loose batman.
So... Snyder's Batman isn't the real Batman and was pointless, because it defeats the purpose of Batman?
We knew that.
This is why The Batman was a perfect Batman movie. He began as a symbol of fear. But he found, through his mission to keep Gotham a safe place, that what the people needed more than anything was hope. What takes place in the story after the credits roll is pure head-cannon, but we can assume, knowing Batman, that he continues with his new hopeful resolve, regardless of the coming day in which that resolve will inevitably get him hurt or killed.
I can see your point, and I really enjoyed the Batman, but and yes here comes the inevitable but, I don’t like Batman being seen by a large crowd. It removes the effectiveness of the character. Batman fighting in broad daylight in the streets of Gotham, was one of the things I hated most in the dark knight rises. Similarly with the Batman walking around between the rescued.
Batman has no powers, his effectiveness largely relies on being an unknown, and yes that entails the fear of the unknown. In my personal opinion, the only time there was a proper fight, how Batman would have to fight, shown on the large screen was the dock scene in Batman begins. Being outnumbered and outgunned doesn’t mean anything, if the enemy doesn’t see you coming.
Batman striking fear into the hearts of his opponents, is half the way to beating them. The Batman even shows criminals reconsidering their actions, due to their fear of the dark.
Batman is undoubtedly a hero, but I cannot see him as a symbol of hope, or at least not how this term is commonly used. I’m very glad for the police and their work in keeping us safe, but that doesn’t make the police into a symbol of Hope.
Gotham has a population of around 10 million people and you’re a little upset because a couple thousand got to see the legend
@@keyoskss615 relax.. the guy gave a valid point.its not like bats is your dad or something
@@wambokodavid7109 relax… the other guy gave a valid counter point
@@keyoskss615 yeah but that scene felt out of place....its his first two years and now people know him.atleast it wouldve made sense if it was like at the end of this trilogy( if they plan going that far)but early on???wheres the whole batman mystique criminals fear that makes him legendary???remember this aint superman
Yes, human and compasionate Batman is much, much better than angry and brooding Batman. And the more time passes, Mask of the Phantasm cements itself as the best Batman movie ever.
Under the Red Hood Was brillant too.
its insane how so much people think batman is just a one dimensional character whose only about vengeance but its not the case at all batman is a symbol of fear to the corrupt but a symbol of hope and strength to the people of gotham and has seen the worst of crimes but still believes that people can change and that killing only breeds more violence in gotham and batman wants to break the cycle with justice but also compassion
I always loved Batman’s no kill rule. Showed that you should never judge a book by it’s cover
What missing from a lot of modern adaptations of Batman is simply put compassion. As Amanda Waller put it in jlu “I’ve never met someone who cares more about his fellow man then Bruce Wayne”
You should’ve used the clip of Batman saving the human trafficking victims from BvS cause he even scared the shit out of people he should be saving and giving hope to
fully agree, biggest problem i have with this movie is the fact that some scenes nail batman, like for example when he runs into the smoke to save people. In other scenes it seems the writers just gave up
@@lunauzies it’s an old bitter Batman that almost gave up, the main issue was the dceu got dropped before he could have a proper arc
@@51UM he got his proper arc : he was too damn good at his job, alienated all of his friends and family and was left a cold and bitter old man because the Justice League? His only friends left? Are still young and powerful and he’s old and useless.
His proper arc is his redemption arc in Batman Beyond.
Terry, his son and the only child who still stays with him after being grievously wronged by him.
And Bruce who doesn’t push his son away or hurt him for once.
@Lunauzies gave up? It's pretty obvious batman is the one who gave up. The killing makes no sense but everything else does. Although an explanation would have helped. This is batman if he
@51UM its Snyder's excuse to blow shit up lmfao. He tried to decostruct a Batman he never bothered to construct in the first place. Affleck was amazing and could have done so much better if he had a good script to work with. Bruce being an old tired badass whos taking a harsher look at crime after the death of robin doesnt work as an introductory movie. When Joker killed Jason Todd in the comics, did Batman want to kill him? Yes. Did Batman do it? No, because he's Batman and Batman doesn't kill.
Killing is the easy way out of getting shit done to Batman, Batman doesnt make the easy choice of using a goddamn CoD score streak on random goons. Batman doesn't kill no matter the arc or the purpose.
I like your points on Batman and what the character is supposed to be or represent. I do think your points on Affleck’s Batman are valid, however I think with all the trauma that Bruce went through as a child and being Batman that Jason’s death was THE last straw for him and he said fuck it. But with the arrival of Superman and the hope he brought along with forming the JL, he remembered why he started doing this in the first place. It’s like that Batman Beyond episode where Terry was going to hand himself over to Shriek to save the city, after hearing Bruce tell a story where he didn’t know if Robin was going to save him or not. Bruce finished the story (while repairing Terry’s Batsuit) by saying sometimes there is no way out. Bruce is trying to disregard Terry’s questions by saying we have a suit to fix here. At the end of the episode the suit is damaged again and Bruce thanks Terry for reminding him why he got into this. Terry says you never do forget, do you? Bruce looks at the former suits from The New Batman Adventures and says no, you really don’t. He proceeds to ask Terry if he was really going to hand himself over and Terry responds in case you haven’t noticed we have a suit to fix. It to me, is a representation of how Batman will always put the greater good above himself. The mission.
P.S. Kevin Conroy as old Bruce and his acting in those scenes really hit home ❤😢
RIP Levin Conroy
Rip kevin conroy also what episode was that?
@@aligaddi7941 Babel I believe
The fact that is was Dick who was killed by Joker is a salt in the wound.
I mean in any other media Jason got tragically killed but Batman never gone nuts. Even in BTAS comics they established Red Hood there. Speaking of Batman Beyond, in the first episode Bruce got a heart attack while fighting a goon. He fell down and in a moment of desperation he held and pointed a gun at that goon to survive. He didn't just retire because of that heart attack or his old age. He realized that his old age made him slower, weaker to a point he needed to hold a gun to survive which is against his code. He'd never hold "a cowards weapons" because the same weapon killed a child's parents in that dark alley.
Every time I heard some fans say Batman should just ditched the no kill rules due to the effectiveness, I will just roll my eyes with frustration.
The problem is that some of his villains REALLY need to die, particularly the Joker, who has blatantly filled entire graveyards as a result of his crimes. If Batman won't kill them, he needs to step aside and let someone else do the deed, like a vigilante who feels it worth sacrificing their freedom to end the reign of terror, or even just the legal system putting a needle in him. But Batman won't let anyone do either of those things either. Arkham Asylum is the worst prison on earth, and it never holds his Rogues Gallery longer than a week. So why bother locking them up when they'll just escape again in time for the next episode?
Rolling your eyes doesn't make the no kill rule any less stupid.
Yet Batman was still created with guns, and killed, and what more funny, hé live in America, usa, where some country have death pain, other have not, i know Batman live in a country where it is not ok, there still solution, oh and you are a fanboy to by rolling your eyes because of what you sayd
See, Batman to me is both Vengence and Justice. Hope and Fear all of these aspects are apart of him. Bruce cannot be batman without them. However, a lot of the time when people make a movie of batman what they tend to do is make the vengeance and fear halves of him so big it makes the justice and hope halves seem to small. That to me is the issue.
justice is cringe... that's not batman
@@godzillazfriction explain please
@@crap9105 No.
@@godzillazfriction being a vengeful killer isn't batman either
@@thenobody7509 tf is your point
That scene, where he say "I'm finally happy. Please tell me it's OK." That was Kevin Conroy coming out. It had a tremendous impact on my heart. You can hear him asking the viewers if it's ok. Man....😥yes, it's OK.
im glad you pointed out Robert Pattinson's batman is really good. honestly i feel he's the best live action interpretation, hes not this insanely perfect killing machine, hes a complex deep nuanced character, emotionally disturbed but not heartless, and that movie really showed his priority of wanting no kid to end up like him. and its honestly the first real liveaction depiction that takes us through his process of detective work.
He did a fine job... but I'm just going to replace all that shit you said about the character with "brooding"... and call it a day ;-)
The image of Batman holding a girl in his arms she she dies . .her last words "I dont want to die" still brings a tear to my eyes.
Batman has been reduced from going to someone who wants to preserve the law and make sure what happened to him never happens to anyone else again to the joke where he beats your ass for jaywalking. The worst offenders of this are the Nolan films, Arkham games and BVS. The interrogation scene in the dark knight is enough for me to think he's going too far in beating Joker's ass for information. He's just clobbering away without a thought. Arkham games literally has batman breaking arms and has a guy under the batmobile, like a deranged man. It may seem cool in hindsight, but that's literally pushing it to the absolute max. BVS literally starts off with batman branding people???? You can write an older Who's slipping and losing his ways without just flat out torturing and killing his criminals like animals. They've set a standard that batman is this psycho who just rocks your shit and potentially kills without a second thought about human life or the law he's supposed to uphold
In defense of Arkham knight, you could make the argument that the joker illness is taking over
@@josephikrakowski1137 that's fair, but also very contentious. Pretty up in the air about that, whether that's just batman being excessively violent or joker toxin influencing him.
I mean the criminals in arkham universe are perfectly fine getting their arm broken by batman, in arkham city u can hear them joke about "batman broke my arm once in the asylum " but they fully aware batman does not kill, that's why they have balls to joke about it. BVS is just dumb, why didn't batman kill the joker or his rouge gallery ,Joker should be the first person that deserves to die, why going for low tier thugs, does batman know if any of them have a family to support? BVS makes no sense. A batman who doesn't treasure human life, is ain't Batman more like the punisher.
I'm no expert on Batman but I don't really agree with snapping limbs making him deranged. My understanding is he's mainly a symbol of fear to the criminals in Gotham. That and Arkham is a video game, so they just wanted a cool looking takedown.
Bad take on Arkham Batman. He isn't just a violent aggressive guy like in BVS. His just a bit of a more mature take on the Batman from the Animated series. Its the same itteration basically. To me Arkham Batman and Joker is the definitive versions of the characters
I just started watch the batman animated series and Im surprised how adult themed this show is for kids and i mean that in a positive way. They actually tackle mental health in a way that can be genuinely helpful for people today and this was almost 30 decades ago. It just shows some lessons are timeless and it makes me sad we dont have more shows like this now.
I honestly envy you. I wish to be able to watch Batman TAS for the 1st time xD. And yes, that serie show us the perfect Batman: What Batman is and what every characterization of him should strive to be.
This is a fair point, but what about the Nolan films? Remember at the end of the Dark GOAT that he takes the blame for all of Harvey Dent’s killings. He takes the punishment that should go onto others just to inspire hope.
Yup, it’s odd that he discards all film adaptations of Batman in this video when this seems to be an issue that he mostly has against Batfleck. In the Nolanverse, we’re shown that there are dozens of kids who literally look up to Batman, one of whom grows up to presumably take up his mantle at the end of the trilogy.
I think it’s proper to have Batman be very Punisher like in his early years but later on after truly learning to live with the fact that his parents died and no matter what he does nothing will bring them back he only puts on the costume whenever a huge threat comes to Gotham
Gotham has insanely high crime rates, not only that but there are some dangerous villains out in Gotham. If Batman only came around when there were huge threats then the city would fall in the next night or two. The biggest threat to Gotham is the crime anyways so he would still be Batman.
@@ribsmeat2333 true. I got so used to the movies lol where during The Dark Knight crime rate has fallen and Batman is only on the hunt for Joker then Bane
Okay, Spider-Man would NEVER mock one of his villains for crying. This is the guy who swapped his consciousness with Doc Ock just so he could live. Spider-Man would never mock one of his villains for crying, never.
I loved that the new Batman movie focused so heavily on detective work. So many other iterations recently have forgotten that he is the worlds greatest detective. His fights were always one sided and there was no question he would win, but the detective work was the real fight. And while he heavily relied on fear, I feel that they really set the stage for him to start changing what he stands for. And thanks for showing The Batman some love. That show is severely underrated and a big part of my childhood.
Thank you for making this video. The core of his character lies as a figure of hope, and the best iterations (Batman The Animated Series and The Batman) understand that.
Zack Snyder’s Batman was roughly based off of Frank Miller’s Batman and we all know as Batman fans that that Batman is drastically different than the Batman we have all grown to love who does not kill people and that does not use guns. I do welcome a day where we get a more Batman, the animated series version of Batman on the big screen perhaps that’s what we will get with the new James Gunn universe.
This is why The Batman 2022 has a fantastic ending. Gave us the superhero that can walk into the police station and get dossiers from Gordon type Batman. The civilians can go to Batman for help. All while still be terrifying. Also it seems they are going with the route where the villains and Batman associate with each other as people.
Also Batfleck was a great performance but the writers didn't understand Frank Miller's Batman. If Batman were to kill, the Joker would be dead and Gotham would've been in better shape tbh. Or else he was just a shitty vigilante. Would've much rather had Affleck direct and lead the DCU, I was the only one excited when he was cast as Batman for "Man of Steel 2"
A bro you can't lie though that BvS warehouse fight was probably the best live action Batman fight ever.
While I appreciate your thoughts and genuinely don't disagree, Batman DID kill before. Both directly and indirectly. Used to carry a firearm too. It was a decision from the editor Whitney Ellsworth, who put their foot down back in the 40s, and told Kane and Finger to never let Bruce kill again. For the most part, that rule has been fairly well-protected. The Silver Age of comics and great writers like Denny O'Neil helped flesh out what it meant for Bruce to use fear as an intimidation tactic, but never let it drive him to that point of no return ever again...Dini and Timm made the best rendition of the Batman because they took the best parts of him, including this very rule, and further explored the psychological reasons for them.
Of course, there were outliers...like Frank.
And coca cola use to put cocaine in their drinks. Is that the definitive version? Stop teyna be a smart ass
@@mr.j410 Wasn't trying to be a smart-ass at all, just saying that all aspects of the character, though not as significant now, still temper the psychology of the character throughout iterations.
The fact that he killed before IS still a part of his history.
The anger and aggression that Frank Miller saw to highlight in his definitive versions was still informed by the OG creators as well as O'Neil's, which undoubtedly informed Burton's adaptation, which inspired Dini's/Timm's, and so on.
There absolutely can be many definitive versions and do indeed inform the meta and contexts of future adaptations.
I love talking Batman, sorry. Not here to argue, just wanted to nerd out as Lunauzies clearly loves the Bat too.
No need to get bent out of shape....Puddin'.
@@SundayReplayjp because well Batman back then was a blatant knock off the underated iconic anti hero The Shadow. it’s funny cause contrary to popular belief franks Batman didn’t kill in the og TDKR story outside of maybe one goon and the joker which is Batman lying to himself anyway.
@@mr.j410 and yet it is still the reality, also thé rule was broken a lot of time, and more importantly, don't be agressive
I also love the LEGO Batman movie, because it directly calls out Batman's brooding and his wrongful justification of trying to protect the people close to him, when he really is protecting himself.
I love seeing small creators make make great content! Great job man🙌
Kinda sad there's only 3 videos here. Looking forward to more though, I enjoyed this a lot.
Being guided by vengeance doesn’t change his thirst for justice lol
SPOT ON! Another show that I can say that got Batman's traits down beautifully is not even a Batman show. But David Boreanaz's underrated masterpiece Angel. He uses his powers not to strike fear into demons. But he also uses them to help the helpless. FANTASTIC series that I think any Batman fan can enjoy no problem.
Angel was basically "Batman in L.A." Great cast. All of them.
oh ye torturing criminals to near death an he uses fear will surely bring the hope into the hopeless immediately?
Genuinely makes me mad that writers have done this to batman. The whole point of him being dark and menacing is that's just what's on the surface. You have to dig deeper in order to find the real batman. Making him a raged, murdering lunatic is NOT batman.
Interesting conversation to have! Appreciate the video!
In defense of Ben Affleck’s Batman, I think what Zack Snyder was going for was that this version of Batman had been pushed so far that he’d forgotten how to be the hero he once was. Based on how he was portrayed in Zack Snyder’s Justice League (and even by the end of Batman v Superman, for that matter), I think it’s pretty clear that his whole arc was going to be re-learning how to be the hero we know Batman to be. In fact, he was already acting more like the Batman TAS Batman in Zack Snyder’s Justice League, and I’m sure, had Zack Snyder been able to make them, the subsequent Snyderverse movies would’ve seen him act yet more and more like the heroic Batman we all know and love as he went further down that arc.
The main problem with BvS is that Bruce Wayne is shown as being stupid. For not good reason, they decide to make Bruce dislike Superman, even though Superman hadn't been shown to harm anyone. And then he decides to lure Superman into a trap and fight him. Instead of talking to Superman first and trying to get to know him. He just starts fighting him. The real Batman would not have allowed himself to be manipulated by Lex Luthor. He would have discovered Lex's plans and then tried to warn Superman about the kryptonite.
There was a reason; they show it right at the beginning of the film. He saw the destruction that was caused in Metropolis by the battle between Superman and Zodd. As a result of that destruction, he lost a friend and colleague, one of his employees permanently lost the use of his legs, and a little girl was nearly killed and lost one - if not both - of her parents. Bruce didn’t know that Zodd was bent on destroying humanity; all he could see was two indestructible aliens fighting with no regard for the collateral damage they were causing or the lives being lost as a result. Add that to the cynicism and jadedness he’d developed after twenty years of fighting criminals, losing loved ones, and being betrayed (to name a few), and I can kinda see why he would be reluctant to give a godlike, indestructible alien who, for all he knew, was there to kill everyone a chance.
@@Stardweller1 EXACTLY!!!. And that´s why the "Save Martha" is really important to Batman. When Superman said that, Batman realize he´s just a thug. Not a hero. That godlike alien was someone son and he has the fear of losing his mother, the same fear that Batman suffered decades ago in that alley.
The Snyderverse was about redemption. In fact every Justice League characters started lower than they ended.
Batman from Punisher-ish to The Batman
Superman from alien protector to Mankind protector
Wonderwoman from Amazonian warrior to Amazonian queen/savior
Cyborg from a nihilist machine to a human cyborg
Flash from an unbeliever of hope to a believer of hope
Aquaman from a cool dude with power to a King of the people.
Martian ManHunter from an alien on human clothing to an human alien
Perhaps the verse would have been better if the cast were younger, but to me Cavill and Affleck cast were perfect. Sadly WB didn´t give Snyder a chance to show his idea and began a sabotage even from MoS, editing and cutting essential scenes. This was specially worrying in BvS were if you see the Movie release and the UnCut, they´re 2 different movies.
I am a Snyder fan with all my heart but I am really looking forward for Gunn´s DC Universe. He got the passion and knowledge to create a masterpiece.
@@claudiocontrerasgomez2949 I have to confess, I'm not as excited for it, partially because of how much I love (and was invested in) the Snyderverse, but also because I think they did Henry Cavill dirty. To me, MOS, BvS, and ZSJL, plus some of the tie-in movies like Wonder Woman and Aquaman are the DCEU, and if we're not getting more, then I think ZSJL was epic enough to be considered the climax under the circumstances. I dunno; maybe Gunn will make something amazing enough to change my mind. But unless and until that happens, I plan to stick to the Snyderverse (though I am looking forward to the Flash).
The Batman was so damn good. The arc he goes through is so crucial to him, but it isn't heavy-handed. The movie doesn't tell us that Batman needs to be hope rather than just vengeance; the movie shows us. They got the childish Bruce still growing into the cowl.
As a die hard Batman fan I completely agree these live actions versions of Bruce just aren’t Batman to me to the breaking the no kill rule to being all vengeance no moral compass no compassion for some of the villains he puts away like I said these live action versions of Batman were never Batman to me these little changes to Bruce make him who he is and why we love him so much and when you take them away to me all you have is a block buster movie with a man in a bat suit doing stuff not the broken yet compassionate man behind the mask that we all know and love.
Even Robert Pattinson version?
I disagree Robert Pattinson was arguably the only live action iteration who is accurate to the character
amen brother
@@jaylenjayden9305 I agree with you and his Batman is still growing so who knows maybe with time we’ll see what a true Batman looks like on screen
@@jaylenjayden9305 Robert is not the best adaptation of the character but he at least understands the character, he literally fought for the No Kill Rule in his movie. So, he is at least doing something right.
Man that scene from mask of the phantasm gives me chills. It’s such a horrible feeling losing or even thinking of losing your parents
Batman was already over his loss and happy in the 1950s. He had found Robin and raised him as a son, while Alfred had essentially become his father. He had a family again.
An absolute hidden gem! CZcams should recommend these types of channels that have triple a quality that are better than some 1+ million sub channels!
I felt Ben Afleck was on his way to being closest to the animated version but over time. With what can be seen from the Flash combined with the rest of his character arc you can see he may be brutal, but as a result for his compassion for others. In this case children. His arc is one of a mentor who loss his protege and his traumas from that inform his later actions and brutality. (Imagine if that Ace girl in the swing scene from the animated series died for some BS how would Bruce treat crime after that?) Superman could’ve been mentored by the veteran hero but Batman isn’t a team player anymore because of his loss and the vulnerability it created. He sees kryptonians as a danger to children (seen when Wayne tech falls on a little girl in he opening of BvS). You could suggest him growing to see Superman as a lost boy looking for the right choices to make may be one of the reasons why Batman hesitated to kill a man asking to help his mom. He lightens up after meeting Barry and you see his transition eventually
Exactly! What we were seeing was a Batman who you could tell had once been exactly the hero we see in the Animated Series, but who by that point had seen too much pain and cruelty and lost too many friends and allies. As a result, he’d found himself in a much darker place, and his entire journey was now to find his way back - to once again become the hero he was born to be. I feel like his critics usually either don’t understand that, or they do but think it was badly handled (which I can understand, but ultimately still don’t agree with).
Ben afleck is the furthest from the animated series out of any live action bat man. Even batman forever is closer
This was a great watch, I hope to see more
If you can't picture your depiction of Batman naturally giving comfort to a dying child, you don't have Batman. You have the Punisher in a Halloween costume.
Wasn't it the point of Snyder's Batman? Batman is shown as the shell of his former self, a twisted verison of himself because of the years of Gotham taking a toll on him and his son, Dick Grayson dying. A lot of people hate it when Batman killed. That is the point. Superman is against Batman's actions as so Gotham.
A lot of people say that Batman would never killed but yet in the comics he came close to it. When Joker kills Jason, he wanted to kill Joker but Superman stops him. Under the Red Hood, Batman confess that he has thoughts of torturing and killing Joker. When Batman was given Superman's power, he almost kill Bane.
Imagine a situation that Batman lose Dick Grayson, a son that he never had and his best robin. I pretty sure Batman would turned into the Punisher not caring anymore. A lot of people say that Batman that kill isn't Batman or it isn't his character. However that is the point of the movie. He isn't Batman. He is the man that brand people. He is the man that wouldn't care about hurting criminals. Snyder's Batman is a broken man.
I think that's what the batman got really right. I loved that movie so much, my favourite batman movie. I loved how the two monologues at the start and end of he movie. the first is about just the thought of his presence is enough to scare the the criminals of the city. the fact that batman could be lurking in any shadow. to then the next monologue being in the day and about how he's now brought hope to the people of Gotham. for me matt Reeves and Pattinson got batman down to a tee
That was a great video bro 🤝🏼 I’m happy too hear other Batman fans love Batman for his compassion more then him being angry and violent.
That’s why when people ask me what is my favorite Batman I always tell them Batman, the animated
I was gonna comment on the fact tha Pattinson's Batman literally has an arc about being more than vengeance and then you brought it up. Also I like that you used clips from the 2005 Batman show too, even if you didn't talked about it. It's such an overlooked show and a personal favorite.
For me, my favorite Batman is the myth, cold, fearsome, PTSD suffering asshole, psychogenius, manipulative type. It just fits pretty well with his traumatic childhood and being a vigilante who gives his foes CTE for fun [I mean justice] as I always view him as an anti-hero at best yes, even when he's not killing [because he does lots of questionable shit besides that] and it fits more with the darker atmosphere that I like in his stories.
Take Batman making fun of Croc. and Penguin in the Broken City story for example...That shit was hilarious.
Batman's good end and growth for me is for him to see a shrink, settle down, and leave this whole viglantism behind, and have a stable family to get over his trauma while he participates politically in law making, and reconstituation of the police force and justice system to serve Gotham well in the long term.
But as long as you will have Bruce putting on a cowl and going out to do outlaw shit and engage in violence with criminals then yeah, I like him to be an asshole vigilante.
I usually find it that when people say ''Batman in X isn't Batman or X doesn't understand Batman'', they simply just mean that he isn't their favorite version or the one they grew up with. Hell, according to Bob Kane Batman isn't Batman anymore since they took away the guns and gave him a no kill rule, but I'm sure many fanboys will disagree because many people seem to not know what a take on a character is these days and like to only deal in absolutes when those characters are designed to not be absolute and that's how they have this long and rich history.
That a fair point
Anytime I see a Batman movie/video where he kills, I always think “well he should t have a rogues gallery”.
This is litteraly the character growth Robert Patinson goes trew in The Batman. He starts out acting on fear and embodying vendgence and he ends up representing hope
The Batman is about vengeance, but at the end he forgoes vengeance for justice, stops being a weapon to condemn the guilty, and becomes a tool to save the innocent... i believe reeves understands batman, and he was as faithful to his story arc as he could be with the time limititions that time with making a movie and not a tv show
yes that’s why i love that movie
Well said. Matt Reeves understands Batman more than any of the directors that came before him. Sure there's been good movies about batman, but his imo is the best batman story told on film
@@trevondenman7385 i disagree slightly, before reeves there were good batman, but they were more about bruce wayne then they were batman, and reeves understands batman because unlike the guys who came before him he's a batman fan, so he made the batman movie he wanted
@@whatskickin5989 that's a fair point
DCAU Batman is perfect.
This is why I think Pattinsons Batman is the most comic accurate Batman ever depicted in film.
Especially with the last scene of The Batman where he realises he can’t just be vengeance it’s great!
Thank you SO MUCH for making this
If only Bruce knew that if his parents could answer him, they'd say "Yes, son, we understand. You don't have to torture yourself like this in order to avenge us. We want you to move on and be happy. It's okay."
The Tragedy of Batman the Crusader
Great quality video! Keep it up!
OMG HOW DID I JUST SEE THIS NOW! Thank you so so so much!
I think Batflick is the closest we come to a live action Batman. He can fight but should not kill.
I don't understand why it is so hard to do a live action batman right, the new one movie was good but didnt really sell Batman for me. Same with the Dark Knight trilogy, the movies were good but there was no Batman in them, just some rich vigilanti.
I'm really glad that YT is recommending me videos from smaller channels :D Excited to see you grow!
Hey, thanks!
I like the new the batman 2022 that he learned from his mistake and can't just be vengeances he has to be hope as well
The best batman will always be Kevin Conroy
RIP Kevin Conroy.
Batman has killed people. This current modern version hasn't killed anyone.
"Batman doesn't kill people."
That's the exact point of Batfleck's character arc.
Thank you all so much for your comments and support! It genuinely means a lot!
Absolutely agree to your video.
You got a new subscriber.
This video is very derivative. This video preaches to the choir and repeats things most people already know and agree with. Most of the points are additionally wrong especially regarding Spider-Man's rogue gallery. There was no advancement or new insight. This feels like a variant comics video from 2014 or WatchMojo superhero origin video from 2015 being hyped or worried about Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice. This doesn't belong in the 2020s let alone 2023.
@@christianjimmyalvarez711 sorry man first video, still working on finding myself on here, any actual criticism besides you yourself, “preaching to the choir.”
As a very long-time Batman fan (25+ years), you are exactly on point as to Batman's nature. Thank you.
I saw this too. Batman deserves better
Hey man don’t say u suck, fuckin great video
thanks man, means a lot! had alot of pressure since first video, glad you enjoyed it!
And Batman is a symbol of fear and hope. Always has been. Those two don’t contradict eachother. They coexist
He doesn't kill people now, he used to in the old comics. I think depending on the interpretation, he can do it.
Batman does inflict trauma though. That tends to happen when you fight people and use violence to stop them from inflicting trauma on innocent people. Batman can’t be too soft. He’s dark and shady in some ways. He’s a figure of controversy because of the internal conflict within himself. Batman uses fear but through justice. I get that Batman transitions over time from a vigilante full of unhinged rage to a more mature heroic figure symbolizing justice yet maintaining his ability to strike fear in a more controlled way into his opponents. But through it all he’s still always going to have a complex side to him that isn’t so extremely black and white.
Good video w w w w batman i love batman
'Batman the animated series' (1990)
and 'The Batman' (2004) animated series
were best depiction of Batman
Batman killing people is one of the most interesting concepts you could write a story with. Driven to the edge due to the mental, emotional and physical strain that Batman has put on Bruce, the line that separates Batman from the criminals is erased. Dan Snyder should have double downed on his concept of the Batman killing people since we know that Joker did kidnap and torture Robin before the events of BvS and that made Batman realise how much pain, trauma and suffering can be brought by the people he refuses to kill eventually pushed him over the edge would have made Snyder's Batman much more interesting and grounded.
It’s crazy how people wanted a battfleck solo movie when Snyder already butchered his character by making him a psychopath serial killer.
Batfleck is not a psychopath, not a serial killer. Batfleck is more of a manslaughterer in BvS:DoJ. Ha! "I'm not mad, just dissapointed.". Batfleck from BvS is always thought of when Batfleck is spoken of or comes to mind. Why does it never seem to be the one seen in Suicide Squad (2016) or Zack Snyder's Justice League?
@@thenoirknight5729 bruh he was blowing up cars with the batmobile and bat wing 😂 that’s not manslaughter.
Batman War on Crime showed how big Batman's heart is.
People seem to forget this but Batman in the 90s wasn’t some edgy anti hero. He was actually quite tame in comparison to the edgy anti heroes of the era to the point where the dark knight returns was created solely cause people wanted a darker Batman
I blame Frank Miller and Zack Snyder for Bat-Punisher.
Frank Miller created the violent Batman for his Dark Knight Returns story, and Zack Snyder built upon his bad Batman take.
You got it right about Batman, but wrong about Spider-Man.
Thank you, I totally agree with you and it's good to know that other people share that vision of the character.
Ben's Batman did become a beacon of hope in Zack Snyder's Justice League though, and got some redemption.
5:14 Spiderman wouldn't do that. He may love to tease and mock his enemies (and even his allies at times), but he still has plenty of compassion. He would NEVER mock someone in a situation like that! I agree with pretty much everything else you said though.
"He fixes what's broken, because he's broken." This is why I think "War on Crime" written and drawn by Alex Ross and Paul Dini (Oh, lookie there) is the best Batman story ever. Because it takes that same attitude to heart.
By the way, that idiot with the hand grenade and KGBeast both deserve Darwin Awards for what they do in the warehouse scene of "Dawn of Justice" (going TOWARDS a live grenade and threatening to kill a hostage who is BESIDE not in front of but BESIDE you while the guy who came to rescue her is pointing a loaded gun at you?!).
I liked the mental editing! Thought it was a nice touch. Cheers!
Less than 1000 subs? DAMN, this video is super high-quality for a YTber this small. I hope you keep growing, I'll keep watching your videos.
Jesus Kevin Conroy his performance is just so moving every time he stepped into the role his performance was perfection rip vengeance, the night, the Batman
There’s also something else about Batman that I have to clear up.
I’m sick and tired of all the people who critique Batman’s character on killing.
Batman inherently has to be someone who believes in rehabilitation and forgiveness. That is just how he was written. But also beyond that.
How disgusting do you have to be to demand someone just kills for you or the “greater good”. Batman doesn’t have to kill to be a hero. It’s the equivalent of a US Soldier coming home and people writing him off as a 🐱 because he didn’t kill any of the bad guys.
It’s disgusting and honestly selfish to expect or believe he should do whatever you think he should do. Batman is a understanding hero who himself doesn’t want to be as low as the criminals he takes down. So the expectation or desire for him to kill even the joker is ridiculous.
Batman is a character with strong moral conviction and principles that makes him a better man then most.
In a world full of nihilism and hate like we have today... I think that’s not only beautiful, but what we need to see more of in media.
the moment batman uses guns that's not Bruce Wayne that's Jason Todd
We need Batman: the Animated Series REBOOT, with Old School Talents back but also with a Little Modern Taste
"I'am Vengeance,
I'am the Light,
I'am Batman"
My Batman Catchphrase Version! Do you Like it?
I think Robert Patterson batman is going on the journey of discovering empathy for his rogues and its cool cause it's never been done in live action before
Amazing video! Wow. Very profound points about the Bat!
You really get batman most people don’t understand
You’re not the only one who’s felt that way. I remember losing my mind over Snyder’s Batman after seeing him use a gun and kill like that.
Didn't the og batman kill and use guns?
@@The_Best_Copper_Salesman yeah but he stopped anyway
I'm sort of an aspiring writer and I often think about popular comic book characters and how I'd write them. I 100% agree with you're take on the no killing rule and why it's important, and one interesting interaction I think can be born out of it is with my interpretation of catwoman. She's more than just a fem fatal and batman's tease of a love interest. She's a mirror of him she's also got a no killing rule, she also is driven by justice, she also uses her skills to help others. But unlike batman she's clearly a criminal ... right? She forces the characters and the reader to ask where's the line between vigilante and criminal.