It’s a Spear. So use it like one..
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- čas přidán 17. 06. 2022
- We’re stressing a POINT here. For… reasons.
Cheers
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The modern recreation of Medieval Combat based on the Art of Fiore dei Liberi.
Wrestling, Grappling and Striking
Dagger
Sword in one and two hands and halfswording
Spear and Poleaxe
Improvised weapons
All Armoured and Unarmored
#MartialArts #Fioredeiliberi #HEMA - Sport
It's not a staff with a pointy bit. It's a pointy bit with a staff.
I’m sooooo glad I found this video! Had a gut feeling the way I was writing a spear fight scene was inaccurate and whoooo boy! Was it ever 😂
Glad it was helpful!
From my experience in the field, there are exactly two reasons why you'd hit someone with a spear instead of stabbing them: 1) you messed up something and your point is off line, might as well smack them on the way to getting it back on, 2) they got past your point and are too close for a good stabbing. I'd say that one of these happens maybe once in four fights, unless your opponent has a shield - in that case, the buttstrike is your go to technique for when he inevitably tries to close rapidly.
That Fiore buttstrike you showed is something I only do if my opponent is fairly close - at the distance you were standing, a disengage or a forceful bind works just as well, is much faster and doesn't leave the bind so much. I know Getty is showing it with the distance you were at, but I'm leaning towards error in drawing on account of copying 'standard spear section poses' by the illustrator here. I'm usually wary of doing that, but I have gotten stabbed one too many times here to not consider it.
I see your points and agree, with the context in mind.
I feel that Fiores suggestion leans more towards getting to a place (through movement and Posta) to very quickly get your point back online as efficiently as possible. We should bear in mind that Fiore wouldn’t have expected his students to be on the field, in the lines, but rather in the barriers and with spears - so, more space to move, essentially.
But yes, from field experience I’m with you - if it works, hit them. Especially if otherwise it’s a wasted action!
Really, the video should have been titled:
Use it as a spear FIRST.
:)
If you can beat your opponent at range, i.e. the safety of being far from danger and the time buffer it brings, then for me that's the logical way to do it; that's the reason spears are essentially as long as they can be while remaining mechanically viable, and have been so popular on the battlefield. Plays at closer range, in my humble opinion, are for when neither combatant "succeeds" at range and one of them can get an initiative at a closer range.
While I try (rather unsuccessfully) to maintain the same general philosophy with the longsword (generally KdF discipline, to be precise), full-range attacks, point control etc. are not quite ideal for maintaining maximum range, so getting closer is frequently desireable. With a polearm though, if I can get the job done at the maximum range, I will do just that.
I knife, with a really long handle.
greetings from greece
Well, historical sources say quite the contrary :P Among others, Talhoffer and Nurymberg Codex teach strikes with spear's staff, as it it was staff with a point. Of course this require bigger swing, since the damage is blunt, and the rest, surely, as you've said, is just two-handed epee.
Yes, Fiore does also. And we show that within.
However, the sentiments of this video is that the temptation is to try and use the spear like a staff. Which, in armour, isn’t going to get you very far at all.
Cheers
Take note, Warzecha
It makes me wonder why double ended spears weren't more common. Why have one pointy end when you can have two?
When I started playing around with a spear I found that adding a butt made the point a lot slower. It's the old "adding mass anywhere on the weapon in the end always adds mass to the weapon" conundrum. So you _can_ put a spike there, but it will make the front spike a little bit worse.
That's why you grab the the spear closer the the butt when a counter weight or butt spike is added. This will allow you to move the spearhead more swiftly and extend your effective striking range due to the shift of the center of gravity. The butt spike or counter weight always protects the butt end of the spear from damage and also gives you an immediate auxiliary weapon in the event that your spear shaft is broken or for some reason your spearhead is already occupied with another attacker.
@@jonathanchark5291 Adding mass anywhere on the weapon always adds mass to the weapon. You can compensate by holding closer to the center of mass or being mindful of the moment of inertia... but it's still a more massive weapon and will be less responsive than it would be without that extra mass. It's just physics.
@@Sinistralian So why not just get stronger and develop more stamina?
@@jonathanchark5291 There is an upper limit to how much mass you can realistically handle in a fight; what you sacrifice in putting a metal butt you sacrifice in reach, or a thicker, more durable shaft, or perhaps langets, or a hook or spikes on the business end of the weapon. Muscle mass and conditioning may raise that upper limit, but it doesn't make up for a sub-optimal design.
You got a point
May I know where you get those spear tips??
Couldn’t tell you I’m afraid, no idea. We have about a million of these. These are just the ones we grabbed. Apologies
@@theexiles7919 not a problem, thx anyway
Who makes the spear at 0:51?
czcams.com/video/7ElJB2cgDqQ/video.html
crossed hold is not usefull for a weapon that short
Fiore shows that grip in both the short spear and sword.
@@shineonsunbeam its slow, you can swing really long poles with it, but for shorts it slows you down
@@flyfin108 no it doesn't.
@@shineonsunbeam im sure you have pole somewhere to try it, either your hands needs to make bigger movement or tip of the pole/spear needs to make it, compared to not crossing your hands
just bring your hands forward from that position and you see
@@flyfin108 over the years I've done it more times than I can count with poles of all sorts of lengths, plus swords ranging from montante/Schlachtschwert size to short longswords. Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Spears n halburgs r supiour weapons in the field until the ranks clash - miyomoto musashi there no such think a fixed grip nore is there any room for extra Play in the operations of such weapons - miyomoto
It's amazing how you're saying smart and right things half of a video and then taking those stupid stances like playing a flute. That's should've been text/audio only, not a video...
You know that these… “stances” are literally based on manuscripts from when these things were used right?
As in, literally, stand here like this, with the weapon like this and for this reason, to use it like this because of that…
… that type of deal?
So, you realise that we’re not just making this shit up right?
@@theexiles7919if people 500 years from now will look martial arts videos of our time they will get much more bullshido than real useful techniques. The fact that it was written or drawned in that time doesn't mean it was good. Marketing was always a thing and we must use common sense and experiments, not just some holy book.
Common sense… yup. I’m sure you’re right!
Definitely more common sense required here. 100%.
It’s not my job to convince you about the practicalities of this weapon or how it’s used. There are LOTS of sources to do that. All pretty similar. All showing guards like this. Would suggest you do some research. And you know, bear in mind that common sense thingy you mentioned.
Have a good one. Train safe.