Everything Only Looks Like a Thing: Neil Theise
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- čas přidán 31. 08. 2017
- Neil Theise is Professor of Pathology and of Medicine at Mount Sinai and a leader in the fields of liver diseases, liver stem cells, and adult stem cell plasticity. In this interview he talks about complexity theory's applications to biology and explains how the self-organizing principle depends on randomness. He advances the dialogue between science and spirituality, reminding us that non-duality implies duality, and that nothing is independent or permanent.
www.scienceandnonduality.com
Wow! This is kind of a 'random internet self organiing thing' that this popped up on my algorythm today...when I have longed to come across exactly this topic to be addressed, bringing together exactly these purviews! This guy is so clear...brilliant! Thank you
He's a joy to listen to. I love his humility before the facts.
This talk is the most easily understood way of knowing the Oneness that is the entangled web of existence. Kudos to Neil. If you stay with this talk 'til the end, Neil explains why we cannot know nonduality without experiencing duality. This implies the ages old truth of the Tao symbol the yin/yang circle of form/life/The Universe/AllThat There IS.
Rupert Spira.
One of the most interesting talks I've listened to, probably, in my life
REALITY IS NOT BEHIND A VEIL
IT IS THE VEIL.
Nice statement
Then what's real?
@@nupraptorthementalist3306 Phenomenal consciousness is the ultimate reality. There are no things, strangely enough.
Reality is that which exists.
Existence comes in different flavours though.
Instances of differently flavoured existents include
matter, movement, pattern, self and
the meaning of this sentence.
I could listen to this man all day long. Fascinating!!!
Thanks, Neil, for this beautiful sharing. It increases in me that felt sense of wonder at this remarkably deep, deep experience of being human.
Thanks to all for this message!
Really enjoyed this, well spoken and presented. Thank you.
Thank you Neil, for explaining the convergence of duality and non-duality!
This is the 1st explanation that makes sense of the theory, “emptiness of inherent existence”. Well explained! Ty
Didn’t he then go on to say that it is not empty but full? There is a Sanskrit mantra
ॐ पूर्णमदः पूर्णमिदं पूर्णात्पूर्णमुदच्यते ।
पूर्णस्य पूर्णमादाय पूर्णमेवावशिष्यते ॥
ॐ शान्तिः शान्तिः शान्तिः ॥
Om Puurnnam-Adah Puurnnam-Idam Puurnnaat-Puurnnam-Udacyate |
Puurnnasya Puurnnam-Aadaaya Puurnnam-Eva-Avashissyate ||
Om Shaantih Shaantih Shaantih ||
Meaning:
1: Om, That (Outer World) is Purna (Full with Divine Consciousness); This (Inner World) is also Purna (Full with Divine Consciousness); From Purna is manifested Purna (From the Fullness of Divine Consciousness the World is manifested),
2: Taking Purna from Purna, Purna indeed remains (Because Divine Consciousness is Non-Dual and Infinite),
3: Om, Peace, Peace, Peace.
His explanation of separateness implying the passage of time makes a lot of sense to me. I experienced this first hand on psychedelics, which have a tendency to dissolve the boundary of the "self". At the moment this dissolution happens, the passage of time seems to stop, and you get a so-called "moment of infinity" or "infinite time loop".
nbfdmd I know what you mean, happens to me with high doses of LSD and DMT
Yeah, didn't quite get time stopping, but it was dissolving along with ego. Oneness was apparent. Nothing/everything mattered. I was "God". This was so clear. All spiritual traditions were pointing to this in their broken way.
You are so intelligent and articulate...you are absolutely fascinating. Thank you for sharing your wisdom!
I went out of body one time and was faces with a planet staring at me right in the face. The perspective was enough for me to wonder how I could possible have this particular perspective. THEN IT said " cause you are bigger". That OBE showed me what total awareness was. There was no BODY I was just isness, existing in this vast space, I was all of it and nothing all at the same time.
Exactly.......with a zero turtle quotient!! N’est pas?
I loved this.
amazingly lucid person. loved the interview!
Loved this thank you!
I like this guy! Thank you.
I use self organization to shapeshift so yeah its pretty awesome
Very interesting comment!How exactly do you apply this wisdom? Thanks
EXCELLENT! Awareness alone/ is our true NATURE ,,!!!!!!!
If it was literally randomness, then there would be no genetic data. Which there is a major existence of for heritage in evolution and natural selection.
So this is primarily philosophical bogus.
The key is aetherial cosmic "geometry". That is why nature has for example quantum fields and the golden ratio.
Excellent.
In one of my first Economics lessons a profesor (a Phd. From Chicago) explained why all the jewlers concentrate in one single street in the city. The benefits of a lot of people going to a known place outweigh the costs of increased competition.
Hotellings law explains this phenomenon
mind blowing explanation of our existence
!
It turns out that there is still more to discover that changes our understanding of what we observe about reality.
Beautiful !!
Mind-blowing ...
Thanks for blowing my mind!... I needed that. 😂😎🤩
I relate
So, if we are going to talk about something simple, let’s call it complexity!
When it comes to the complexity theory, I prefer unpredictability over randomness since it got a pattern and yet it's unpredictable.
Very profound. It made me wonder, could synchronicity in the Jungian sense be associated with the self-organizing tendency of the Universe?
Inextricably.
Experiences with Jungian synchronicity is what made me give up atheism/materialism. They colored my world with a new set of paints. Reductionism is easy, if maybe a bit cold, but transcendentalism requires a kind of "faith" that can leave one with an uneasy kind of faith to live within. My life experiences have preceded my knowledge of Jungian theories, which in turn validated his insights/discoveries.
@@travislawrencemusic BS
Again someone is misinterpreting quantum mechanics: it is not the concious observation but ANY MEASUREMENT or Interaction that leads to collaps of the wavefunction (forces the quantum to have discret parameters). The measurement does not need to be made by a concious mind
could you please elaborate ? I find your point seriously interesting.
@@Privacy-LOST There is a general misinterpretation about the term "observer" in quantum physics, the term misleads nonphysics people to think of it as a conscious beeing watching the experiment, but it simply means "something that measures quantum parameters". For example double split experiment: when the exact position (slit) of the quantum is measured the wavefunction collapses and you can't measure the exact momentum and if you don't measure the slit/position you get the wave-interference pattern with conclusions about momentum. But this measurement can be automated and done by computers, it doesn't need a conscious beeing watching it! This is approved by many experiments. Measurement is in the end interaction of the quantum with other quants, so the same goes for any interaction between quants/particles, in the moment of interaction the "uncertain" quantum nature needs to put the cards on the table. So the moon and "reality" is there, even if no conscious beeing is watching/perceiving/interpreting it.
Seems like alot of research on the object , happy to see you have something to explain , sometimes we no need to research juss borrow everyone eyes not mind , and you become live channel
Very interesting !
I like this guy. Very cool
I'd like Niel to explain this to more scientists of today
Wonderful video, very interesting-would love to listen to more...
It boggles my mind how ancient Indian wisdom arrived at thousands of years ago what you seek to understand.
It slowed down because of cultural influences, if you were labeled a mystic or stepped outside the collective ego or (culture) you were burned at the stake.
Evolution, our progression of how human/mainstream culture thinks, understands conceives relates to the cosmos/Self..., has taken us away from the simple mystic truths and into physicality, external orientation.. As we reach the end of our paradigm of duality we turn back as we journey forward. happy auspiciousness all! "Language isn't very good at this".
@@allisonsaupe quite so.
@@priortokaraew7569 i don't really know but yes it is mind boggling... And fun and beautiful to watch and undergo the changes. Grateful. To be a tiny speck of earth, or this solar system, or all that is. Enjoy!
All we've ever been doing is studying our own perception.
The fundamental thing is everything.
This explains why less government - or top down organizing - works better and supports freedom better than big government, which gets in the way more than it helps.
or not. One might look at intelligent government as successful self organizing of the society. Whether that intelligent self organized government is larger or smaller than one might imagine it should be, is a separate issue.
There is no randomness in todays Colleges. Hell there is no free speech on College campuses that is turtles all the way down.
Mind Blown
Check out Jed McKenna theory of everything: CRex vs Urex. What comes first consciousness or the universe?
Very nicely expressed. I appreciate the depth of detail in Neil's understanding. Although I have read much of quantum mechanics and quantum physics over the years and have meditated for a very long time, it was natural psychedelic ceremonial experience over two decades that tied it all together for me in a way that allows me to follow Neil's organization of the information..
Excellent.... explained TRUTH in a very beautifull & simple way.... in a layman's language but at the same time in authentic approach , with deep details of various facts & metaphors.... thanks 🙏.
Thanks Neil. Wouldn't it be nice if the pattern shown to Moses called 'the likeness' turned out to be the unit of organisation that connects everything in the quantum matrix.
From our limited view point nature seems spontaneous, but all the processes of nature are completely determinedly by a causal chain.
So cool
What may seem random may not be at all. Who's to say?
The body is a self organising system. If this is fundamentally true, would it not have similar bearing on groups of more highly evolved "members" like political, social, and religious groups etc. which to my personal understanding tend more often than not to end up dysfunctional or even corrupt in some form or another? Any ideas?
They are. And just like human bodies, are finite in duration - the question isn't how do they end (cancer, car crash/corruption, bureaucratic collapse), perhaps, but what do they accomplish before the final "mass extinction"? And can corruption or collapse, or whatever the conditions of final demise are, be ameliorated (for a time, only) by life prolonging therapies as we do in some human diseases...?
Good antidote to rampant anthropocentrism - and, can we finally repeal the Second Law?
All is Qualia ... works for me
I found this fucking incredibly interesting. What a great way of looking at reality
it's not random at all, but rather results and following of processes.
Non duality is itself a form of duality but on a separate level from duality. It encompasses duality to form it's own duality as the duality formed between duality and non duality. Similar to a three dimensional space being able to encompass a two dimensional space. You can transcend duality but you cannot escape it.
Why does sense come out of field of awareness, what’s behind that ‘action ‘? Why does action happen in this field of so-called non-duality?
fractals baby! infinite fractals!
process fractals
I remember coming out of a heavy DMT trip and I said to my girlfriend, “if there is a God, he fuck’n loves fractals”!!!
The intent of convincing all that their lives would be better if it were embraced that nothing is actually physical, is a worthy accomplishment , , for what purpose?, to what purpose? To try and be relieved from the stress of dwelling upon posessions, owning stuff, losing stuff, dying,.?
Interesting
The definition of consciousness .
Consciousness is a 6th sense.
It allows us to know we can “experience” something from the 5 other senses…
“Long, long ago, physicists stopped asking the question 'What is matter?' They began that way, they wanted to know, ‘What is the fundamental substance of the world?’ And the more they asked that question, the more they realized the couldn't answer it, because if you're going to say what matter is you've got to describe it in terms of behavior, that is to say in terms of form, in terms of pattern. You tell what it does, you describe the smallest shapes of it which you can see. Do you see what happens? You look, say, at a piece of stone, and you want to say, 'Well, what is this piece of stone made of?' You take your microscope and you look at it, and instead of just this block of stuff, you see ever so many tinier shapes. Little crystals. So you say, 'Fine, so far so good. Now what are these crystals made of?' And you take a more powerful instrument, and you find that they're made of molocules, and then you take a still more powerful instrument to find out what the molocules are made of, and you begin to describe atoms, electrons, protons, mesons, all sorts of sub-nuclear particles. But you never, never arrive at the basic stuff. Because there isn't any.”
- Alan Watts “The Nature of Consciousness”
Encompassing emergence.
I like clever people. This is probably because when you've been a shmuck all your life like me, the prospect of learning something cool may offer the prospect of a more shmuck-free future. Crossed fingers.
Maybe in the next life , eh
sweet!
You're already clever. You're learning to know yourself and that's the best you can do for your future. So you don't really need your fingers crossed, just keep on learning, things will happen and come to you. Godspeed.
Something tells me you'll stay a schmuck for the rest of your life. But ditch your cap anyway.
@Jeff Peate I was just trying to be constructive.
I tend to agree to the speaker but in another way see his or my view as the true nature of a fifth dimension perspective on the other four. What do you say?
there is also the UNconscious which is just as involved as, no more involved, than "consciousness"
Rich people living in a particular neighborhood wasn't some magical self-organizing, unplanned happening. Some guy had a plan and built luxury apartments in an area that he chose because of centrality, convenience, pretty views, etc. Rich people moved into those apartments. That guy's success inspired further investment in similar apartments in the same neighborhood. It was a successful plan made by a conscious mind that correctly predicted how others might act, not some adorable accident where randomly-meandering rich people all happened into the same neighborhood simultaneously. Do you also think that large, luxurious homes just happen to spring up on pretty coastlines?
Is the "Game of Life" conscious? Or does it not need to be?
Turtles? No, it's actually self organizing systems all the way down
All things are not reducible to qualia. Qualia only represent order. They do not create order. Yet order exists. Therefore ...
☯️☯️☯️☯️☯️☯️☯️☯️☯️☯️☯️☯️☯️
There seems to be a little bit of the opposite in everything, as though it is a potential for a spark to ignite the seemingly opposing force...everything seems to be cyclical, waves of opposite pattern creating dynamics...have we evolved to be fine tuned in "riding" those waves...☯️☯️☯️☯️☯️☯️☯️☯️
🙏
Sholem Aleichem - a groyzn dank - fascinating and comforting..........
Maybe light is neither a wave nor a particle.
A wavicle
i do not have a 'science mind' . too hard to grasp the whole nature of the universe . what side of my brain doesn't understand? duality? IDK
This is the view of Christian mysticism as well...Jesus was all about the non-dual(I and The Father are one). Unfortunately most people don't seem to grasp the deeper implication that they're also one with The Father, the ground of being, paramatman. Eastern Orthodox, with their emphasis on theosis, might be an exception.
Sikhism also hits hard with the non-duality. The number 1 is literally the first thing in their scripture. ੴ implies a singular source from which all of creation is vibrated or emanated. Sorta like a field of conscious energy churning and foaming and waving all that is.
💚
I don't think that there is something so small that there is nothing smaller or something so large that there is nothing larger. Infinity is infinity.
We can explain objectively the quantum measurement problem with GRW spontaneous collapse but it doesn't feel right. I may be wrong. Nothing explains consciousness anyways.
Once last thing, science needs to talk to more of the qudandaros, like myself. Sometimes when I just casualy interact with wanting an energy shift to help people out of stuff, I get what I want. WHY and how do miracles happen? When you believe in science and spirit are both engagged. It then becomes a belief system?
We share the same last name. So rare
Then we are cousins. Who are your grandparents? Or great grandparents?
@@neiltheise the Theise side of the family all lives in and around Regina Sask. Grandfather was Adolf Theise and Anne Theise. German background
There are no things, only seemingly.
24.30 nice❗️
This is cosmic anthropomorphism at its best. The presumption that observation dictates the outcome of situations (like the dual slit experiment) is false - it is a fallacy of language. It is not observation, but measurement that alters the outcome. The "spiritual" interpretation that it is our conscious mind, reflecting a "cosmic" mind, that observes and thus dictates the outcome is simply incorrect. A conscious mind is not necessary to alter the outcome of the dual slit experiment or any of its derivatives. That is a self-serving rationalization. And as pointed out, rational arguments are inevitably inconsistent, so it is not fruitful to attempt to understand consciousness on a rational basis. Regarding duality, and why our mind is inherently dualistic, it is very simple. The brain is a pattern detector. The basis of cognition is comparing and differentiating sensory patterns. Identifying different faces, cars, streets, on and on. That is fundamentally what our brains are designed to do. Duality is not something that "arises" in us out of consciousness - it is the basis of our consciousness. Can you be aware without being aware of something (not you)? The universe may act conscious, like the energy "foam" from which matter arises. But then are we to compare that process with our own mental process and say that the universe is therefore conscious? That is a rational dualistic comparison which our brains are designed to do - to "make stuff up", to fill the vacuum of our ignorant search for "truth". If that gives you comfort, enjoy it.
oh shit I think he's implying that unconsciously our cells are communicating to other organisms of the same species and organizing without us consciously being aware in more than just our neurons.
Overthinking everything.
Not convinced by any of this. Very interesting on self organising animals. Everything else sounded like self justification. The double slits experiment apparent consciousness altering duality is likely due to quantum decoherence. Whenever a wave is detected it has a location and becomes a particle (wave particle duality).
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_decoherence#In_interpretations_of_quantum_mechanics
I realise there is a debate here but I am not qualified to argue it.
Well, some quantum physicists like Sean Carroll, recently on Joe Rogan's podcast, will say the 'electron' is in reality a probability function. IOW, not a thing at all but rather relationship between knowing and known. (Choose your own linguistic metaphor.) The point: things aren't things as we conceive them, rather they are made of knowing.
The wave function itself is a probability function.
Yes. Although that is a matter of labels. Here is another approach to the same question: czcams.com/video/8hrwPpIpW0Q/video.html
Saying that it is likely due to quantum decoherence doesn't explain away consciousness' direct impact on the result of the experiment. Your argument against consciousness' direct impact is actually an argument for the position that consciousness does have a direct impact. Whether or not there is coherence or decoherence would be irrelevant to making an observation if consciousness was irrelevant, so what is your issue here? Just trying to clarify.
The issue of consciousness in quantum mechanics is so widely misunderstood that it is beyond laughable now. Observation in a quantum experiment had nothing to do with consciousness. It means using an instrument to detect what you are looking for.
What is also overlooked is that emission and detection are events. I think we have made a huge mistake in calling these events things. Certainly, atoms are quantised but to identify quanta as particles has never been justified.
We see that light and charge behave as waves except when they interact with atoms. That is, they are diffracted by narrow slits and they can be polarised, for example. So if they only seem to behave as particles when they meet atoms in our detectors or leave atoms in our sources why do we attribute particle-like behaviour to whatever is emitted or absorbed and not to the atom with which it is interacting?
Notwithstanding his expounding the idea of Emptiness and the way it behaves ("Things are just processes.") Neil falls into the trap of talking about particles as things. They can't be and this is why QM gets its knickers in a twist about wave-particle duality and the imagined 'collapse of the wave function'. We think we are looking at particles in exactly the same way we think we are looking at any object when all we are doing is witnessing behaviours of Emptiness. We can never locate particles exactly because they aren't there. They're only what we think we see when we witness detection events.
came here to say this guy looks like the dude from the stock footage that says "noice"
The rabbis from thousands of years ago and possibly to this day haven't got the real meaning of 'I am'. That's the reason they crucified JC, who was showing them nothing but this.
The romans were the ones who crucified JC.
By homicide.
MRJ The whole thing was to demonstrate “victory” over death ie that we are all deathless, if you can accept it.
@@robertthomas2673 I accept it more than you know for I see it as I live. If one hasn't seen it, it's just theory and they believe it because they need something to hang on to.
MRJ hallelujah!
26:17 He is describing Gnosticism. Finally, science is catching up with what the Gnostics have grokked for thousands of years.
Except Gnosticism is another belief system with a whole lot of baggage.
How does he have a job??
I am sure I can get a autograph on my copy. errrr, right?
yes. you can. :)
That's wassup!
I am you. Will is who I am. I am your will. I control you completely. I am God of it all. Don't you feel the same?
The string like structures of the Universe look a lot like how the nerves are strung about in the human brain. I wonder if this is coincidence or not.
Are we an enormous thought?
Mark Keller That's like saying cars and ants are a lot alike because cars go along roads and ants go along chemical trails. There's more difference really than similarity. R.e. Comment below, "Are we an enormous thought?" Actually, our thoughts are kind of like ants in our brains going along "neuronal trails" (connections of brain cells), retrieving "food" (memories), bringing them to the "Queen" (frontal lobe, seat of executive processing), and ... well, you get the idea.
@@thomassoliton1482 you missed the intent.
ants are the ultimate anarchy.
some day humans might be perfect like them.
The ant social organization is a highly successful adaptation to their environment. The closest human example is perhaps serfdom (feudalism) during the middle ages. Check out the opening scene of Monty Python and the Holy Grail and see if you like that.
unfortunately the last part about the burning stick turning into smoke its not the same as dying and having a spirit. because you can test one and not the other. You are either religious or not. Having said that, you can still be a spiritual person by looking for reality through science with an open mind that yes maybe there are conscious agents that are the substance of all reality. But that's it, so you cannot live on after you die, but you can be made up again in the universe as something else that might be conscious.
There is a little more to it than that. Organized religion has diluted or twisted what the ancient teachings were about. The Mystery teachings were not a religion. They were likely the source . There is nothing wrong with religion in and of itself. It can serve a useful purpose but it unfortunately became a control mechanism. It sought to place a mediator between the individual and the universe (God) and even went as far as creating an external savior instead of revealing the inner tradition that allows an individual to save himself. Jesus was one of many in a long line of people that have actually walked the path impeccably. The church chose not to teach reincarnation for any number of reasons but that may have been for the best in the beginning.Sometimes it gives people an excuse to not be their best in this life. It is not simple to truly understand. In regards to your statement on living after death there is more to add. When people today get "saved" they are being robbed to an extent. It is not that easy. After the body dies the being will undergo a panoramic recapitulation of their life. What normally happens within 40 days(usually much sooner) after this is the disintegration of their awareness and this is called the second death. I mentioned being saved earlier because the second death does not have to happen. The purpose of the Mystery teachings was to teach an individual practical means for inner development that were not based on faith but on experience. They give verifiable results that even encroach into the objective realm. Many of these were directed toward developing what is today called an astral form. The aim was to enable it as a vehicle of coherent awareness. This is the second birth. Being born again. Saved. One of the avenues for this that is popular today is lucid dreaming. Lucid dreaming is not the same thing as having a coherent astral vehicle. It is simply a tool for teaching an individual to maintain and alter their own awareness. Once awareness is developed the day will come that the astral vehicle is discovered. There is no break in conscious awareness when leaving the body and with practice this is achieved at will. This allows the awareness to be maintained for an indefinite period after the physical form perishes but it is not immortality and it is still nearly impossible to affect the material plane by oneself. How long this can be maintained depends on several other factors that must be dealt with while still living.
"Somehow we get from here to here by way of mysticism" Sounds like a pretty iron clad argument and not pseudo-scientific at all. This guy says a lot of things and some of them in some way might even be useful.
Matt D Nope, he says nothing, really.
This guy sounds like Hayek
what gives the cell the desire to be organised?
All That There IS.?! :-)
What gives God the desire to be whatever God is?
self-replication. continuance of life. it's not willed, just evolution.
Boredom
Electrical charge drives metabolism.
Read "I Am That" Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, it will all become perfectly clear.
It is never perfectly clear for a long time. One keeps going inevitably in and out of perfect clarity.
@El Nebraskense: Telling people what to read . . . is nonsense. That's perfectly clear, for sure.
@@QED_ Telling people that "Telling people what to read . . . is nonsense." Is certainly nonsense. That's for sure.
@SuperGroob: Why should anyone have an obligation to read something based merely on a command that they do so (?) Explain the sense of that. In contrast, there WOULD be some goodwill obligation to respond to someone who makes a reasoned ethical, political, philosophical, etc case himself. The original poster isn't doing that. His comment is no better than saying "Go to the corner of 57th Street and 5th Avenue and everything will be clear". That . . . makes no sense.
@@QED_ No one is under any such obligation.
Unless this addresses, integrates the existence of the soul in governance and animation of the assembly, that being the scaffolding upon which the human being is fashioned: then there's no there there, thus no point in watching.
His description of organization in cities is oversimplified. Redlining is top down, many neighborhoods were created by real estate brokers actively zoning ethnic groups preventing them from moving into areas they might have preferred.