Fr Robert J. Spitzer, S.J., "Why Would an All-Loving God Allow Evil and Suffering?", 2/8/2023
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- čas přidán 8. 09. 2024
- One of the most important challenges to the Christian faith is the classical theistic problem of evil. It figures centrally in the work of critics of traditional Christianity, such as David Hume, who for example cites a classic formulation of the problem in his Dialogues on Natural Religion:
Is [God] willing to prevent evil, but not able? then he is impotent. Is he able, but not willing? then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? whence then is evil? [Dialogues on Natural Religion X, 63]
Of course, the problem is not of interest only to critics of Christianity. Those who wish to explain the truth of Christianity and to defend Christian claims against critics such as Hume can and should examine and reflect on the problem. This is why St Thomas Aquinas sketches out the problem and a line of response to it in his monumental theological handbook, the Summa Theologica. Perhaps most importantly, every person committed to the claim that a loving, powerful, and omniscient God providentially governs the cosmos must join Job in reflecting on the reality of evil and suffering, and finding a way to make sense of it as part of our experience of living the human life.
The Gonzaga University Faith & Reason Institute presents well-known speaker, author, & former Gonzaga University President Fr. Robert J. Spitzer, S.J., back to the Gonzaga campus in Spokane for a talk, “Why Would An All-Loving God Allow Evil and Suffering?” on Wednesday, February 8, 2023. His talk offers words of wisdom concerning the problem of evil for all interested groups: critics, defenders, and believers.
Rev. Robert J. Spitzer, S.J. Ph.D., is a Jesuit priest, teacher, author and lecturer on topics ranging from ethics, philosophy, and the relationship between modern physics and Christian faith. Fr. Spitzer has academic degrees from the Gregorian University and the Weston School (Cambridge), and a Ph.D. in Philosophy from the Catholic University of America. After teaching at Georgetown University and Seattle University, he served as President of Gonzaga University from 1998 to 2009, at which time he founded the Gonzaga Faith & Reason Institute. Spitzer is currently President of the Magis Center and the Spitzer Center. He has made many television appearances and currently appears weekly on EWTN. Among Fr. Spitzer’s many works are the books, The Soul’s Upward Yearning: Clues to Our Transcendent Nature from Experience and Reason; The Light Shines on in The Darkness: Transforming Suffering through Faith; New Proofs for the Existence of God: Contributions to Late Twentieth Century Physics and Philosophy; and Evidence for God from Contemporary Science and Philosophy. Fr. Spitzer is skillful at presenting complex philosophical and theological ideas in a clear and accessible way, and his scheduled talk will explore the theological problem of evil and suffering in a fresh and engaging way.
Fr Robert J. Spitzer, S.J., and the Magis Center:
www.magiscente...
Gonzaga Faith & Reason Institute: www.gonzaga.ed...
Thanks for all good and love 💕 GOD Bless always hope for all good
What a joy and spiritual uplifting to listen to Fr. Spitzer. Thank you.
Such a refreshing and inspiring talk by Fr.Spitzer.
Keep it coming father 👍🙏
My grown daughter and I have a standing telephone appointment once a week to discuss philosophical issues. (This is a child who at age seven asked “Why is everything in the world, in the world? Wouldn’t it be more normal if there wasn’t anything?”) Our last topic was precisely this, with a slight twist: What does Catholicism say about suffering? In our talks, I take the Catholic perspective, and Adriana challenges my faith. When we talked about suffering, then, I mentioned redemptive suffering, and Job, and “no pain, no gain,” and so on. But now, having heard Dr. Spritzer’s banquet table example, I believe I’ve come across the best answer I can give to the question of Catholicism and suffering. Does holy Scripture directly put forth this answer? Is it in the Catechism, or in the patristic writings? No, but it fits perfectly into the sensus fidelium because the motivation for it is love, just as when, Jesus tells us, someone gives up his life for his friends.
This is what I will tell my daughter, and I cannot wait to get her reaction.
How did she react?
Thank you Father. I am so anxious to hear from a priest that has the Joy of the H.S. Praise God for your gift of explaining the difficult things.
Thank you for this wonderful talk!!!!
Fr Spitzer - you are a true blessing... Thank you !
Thank you. I found the same understanding. The best people I've ever met were well aquainted with suffering. The fruits of suffering speak for themselves.
This World has problems so when we get to Paradise we can appreciate our Heavenly Father and Perfection and we learn to have emphasis for others and learn to Love Others 💘❤ and have Compassion for Others We learn to Appreciate each other LOVE is learned through Experiences! 🥰😍💖💞💖💞
How did you get so happy?
Faith comes by hearing, Hearing by the WORD OF GOD, not by the words of men. And it is His Gift, and He has given it to US All, for without It is IMPOSSIBLE to please Him. And finally We are justified by Faith in the Finished Work of GOD through Christ without the deeds of the law of Moses. Amen.We speak the Truth ln Love, just as Fr. Spitzer has in this momentous talk that he gave at Gonzaga. He has made me see the "Catholics" ain't all bad.LOL. We Love and Forgive All people everywhere by the Love 💕 of GOD shed abroad in Our Hearts by the Holy Ghost! God bless Brother Spitzer!👍💜❤
1:02:21 Prayers during Times of Suffering.
The bible passage which I am having trouble with most right now too is Ezekial 14: 14 - 20. Another reminder that human free will on earth for the time being does not have to be subject all the time to our higher power's will who has thoughts often far higher than any of us can ever fathom. That paradox is both a blessing for us and a curse whenever we fall short of the Lord's best will for us. Maybe that is so every one of us can learn how to be merciful to others while each of us and collectively we are growing in wisdom too. Which we will be doing forever after we accept the Lord's grace to do so. I am thankful that 11 of the 12 apostles who continued to follow Christ after their brother John was told to care for Mary mother of Christ. They continued to follow Christ after his death and resurrection while according to ancient Rome at the time they were allegedly alienating everyone while they were according to the sanhedrien at the time deserving to die alone while accepting the Lord's grace no matter what. If it wasn't for both the Lord himself and those 11 apostles would there be any places today where us Christians can meet in without fearing to get arrested too?
I have been abused in every way possible by evil people since I was a very young child. To this day, at 64 years old, these people have been cruel and sadistic toward me in so many ways. I was hoping this talk would give me some insight, but it did not. I could not derive anything meaningful to help me understand why I have been subjected to so much pain and suffering for my entire life. I am beyond disappointed.
I’m so sorry for your suffering... Life is so cruel in general that even a very optimistic Christian view can’t reasonably explain it, here’s what I like to think to truly believe in the absolute goodness of God.. I like to visualize that some lesser god created this world in the image of the real amazing world of the heavens, and messed up each and every part of it and somehow managed to trap our souls into this decaying body and keeps torturing us up until we leave this earth.. However, the one True God is always trying to clean up the mess and therefore sent Jesus to suffer with us and tell us to keep strong and I promise you this shitshow will end and I am waiting for you on the other side so you can go back home.. ❤
@@HeavenlyMe1111 Thanks for kind words sharing your thoughts with me.
God Bless You. I have suffered similar. I recommend listening to John Lennox. Amazing man. 🙏😉
@@ladyj3474At times it's felt like hell on earth. I ask God why me? I don't get an answer no matter how hard I pray. I am.still here so I try to move forward the best I can.
Do you go to church every week?
Questioning God has no place .Jesus I trust in You.
Questioning God is the only place. Every thing you do is at the behest of a snake oil salesman.
English is not God's language
If there is a God any God they are not all loving or caring about anything.
because He created man with free will....
Did God also give the earth itself free will so it could deliver earthquakes, tsunamis etc when ever it wanted ?
Actually it has been demonstrated that free will doesn't exist. That undermines the foundation of all religion.
@@bluegtturbo I want to start by saying that I agree that free will probably doesn’t exist.
HOWEVER. It hasn’t been conclusively proven - there’s still a lot we don’t know about the brain. And also, not all religion depends on free will, such as Calvinism. I think Calvinism is actually a lot more coherent of a doctrine than more traditional forms of Christianity (although imo it’s also morally abhorrent).
The reason why God is different in Life is Love.
God does not send suffering unless hes trying to save someone. He doesn't delight in sickness or suffering. Hes compassionate
I sure hope so!
@James Of 7 I'm so very sorry for anyone who suffers with cancer. It is never Gods will. Jesus Christ wants to heal the suffering xx
@James Of 7 I can assure you God did not give cancer . God cares, Hes a loving Father
@James Of 7 sorry I dont understand. I'm dyslexic and I've been unwell lately please explain
Wow thank you Father you have really opened my own eyes!🤎✝️
Middle of any plant has it's transmission line of plant life's abbility growths basic property's " and outer explorations and it's Beauty's of a plant"
How on earth did Gonzaga allow itself to become a "woke" University???😞
Where’s the unorthodoxy in any of his points?
@@minui8758 I apologize, not referencing him. But others teaching there. How on earth did it happen.
@@minui8758 They teach, as a degree, critical theory and gender studies....
@@laydownlays ah! An entire degree! It’s perfectly fine for a Catholic curriculum to reference these ideas and explain them in depth - indeed it’s a good idea because they are dominant ideas in the culture. But always with a note of apologetics against - we want to raise up skilfully equipped defenders of the faith not folks to undermine it!
@@minui8758 So, skillful defender of the faith... how did the talking donkey get into the OT? ;-)
Is worshipping a need unfulfilled in God whilst demeaning the worshiper?
I think God just wants us to be grateful. Imagine he works day and night for us. Worship is the thank you. The Holy Spirit is sanctifying us so we need challenges.
We are where God isn’t.. Therefore we, along with the innocent animals are in a realm where the immediate ruler isn’t God the Almighty.. we are where we constantly wonder and battle with each other whether God is even Real.. when a baby is with mom getting all his/her needs met they’re not constantly wondering whether mom exists or is real because they are with her.. We are not With God, our souls have departed his kingdom for some reason (Maybe even against our will? ) and is trapped here on earth.. On the other hand, we know who rules this realm and this earth .. it’s the fallen ones, it says so in the bible that God cast Lucifer to earth along with those who chose to follow him - about a third of the angels - and we along with animals and all creatures are in almost constant suffering... wouldn’t this at least tell us that we are in a place that is either created or severely damaged by the fallen angels/demi gods to suit their evil nature, thus trapped our souls and made us suffer, and the one true God is trying to get us out of this mess, and this is why he sent his only son to tell us not to despair because we can go back home .. And therefore the one True God is ALL LOVING ALL MIGHTY AND ALL GOODNESS, and we are in hell maybe for a brief moment in eternity, where we experience what separation from God is like.. full and utter chaos and ugliness even if the place looks good and majestic
How about this as a possible answer !
As a Christian can you even wrap you head around this idea ?
"Why Would an All-Loving God Allow Evil and Suffering?"
God does not exist !
Be an honest person for its own value - not from fear of spending eternity in hell. Success in life requires hard work and logical thinking, and these are the values you must strive for.
@@Bugsy0333 have you considered that what the world deems as a loving God is actually the devil himself and thus "Why Would an All-Loving God Allow
Evil and Suffering?" does not come from the highest loving power in the universe but from a lower form that the previous civilizations used to call the gods .. And that our souls are trapped in this human body for some reason related to free choice that is imposed by evil on us.. and when we do choose good and leave this realm, then we are back with the Real all loving God and not the creator of this chaotic reality, or brought back to be tortured again as in recycled into earth to relive suffering over and over unless we choose Jesus Christ and ask him to get us out of here
@@HeavenlyMe1111 Yes, that is just another form of delusion. ;-)
@@schmetterling4477 Physics proved that reality as we know and perceive it Is an illusion down to the particle and nucleus of an atom.. The question was never if it’s an illusion, it’s why the illusion and who trapped us in it
Didn't know about Gonzaga, so had a look at their website....they teach critical theory and gender studies as a degree....Jesuits...lol
He wouldn't!
What a long winded intro. Geez
All sophism,
All ideas connect to our origin as a universe
Well, look on the bright side, if it is sophism, one day you will be able to fact-check him. Of course if your wrong, it might be too late. Maybe that is where reincarnation comes in, you get to come back and take the test all over again.
Ok, this gets off to an appalling start. He totally ignores the fact that countless babies have and continue to suffer horribly. These innocent humans lack the capacity to choose anything.
He also ignores the fact that he believes that god designed us and in doing so gave women a womb "designed" to spontaneously slaughter close to a quarter of all the unborn from the dawn of humanity.
Finally and most disappointingly he does nothing more than regurgitate the same old apologetic trope without making any attempt to address the many current objections to his "solution" to the problem of evil.
The points you bring up are good but you can't expect him to address everything.
With babies who suffer, some of that is due to human free will.
Another point you bring up is evil coming from natural sources (such as spontaneous abortions, natural disasters, etc).
All of these instances can also allow for humans to exercise virtue in response to these events. To comfort others. To assist them. To empathize with them. And in the end, God can award those who suffer in this life with everlasting life and happiness.
That answer may not satisfy you, but it at least can serve as a starting point for further discussion. Other theologians have addressed your concerns as well, which you may or may not find adequate.
Peace be with you.
@@dakotadustin3556 I don't expect him to address "everything" but I do expect him to address the fundamental problem of evil/suffering. That is the suffering of the innocent and the suffering within the animal kingdom which humanity has absolutely no control over but an all powerful all loving god absolutely does.
I also find it disgusting that you should suggest that babies and the unborn need to suffer just so that they can be awarded with everlasting life and happiness. An all loving god could simply place them directly into paradise without sending them to be horribly tortured first.
If I knew with absolute certainty that a child of mine would suffer horribly and then die. I would not have that child. Your god however creates knowing that countless innocent lives will suffer horribly and has the power to stop that suffering yet chooses not to.
If I, as an atheist, stood back and watched an innocent suffer, you would rightly condemn me as an immoral monster, yet when your god does it you sing songs in praise of this, and threaten me with extreme eternal violence if I don't kowtow and sacrifice my humanity on the alter of your deity.
Wake up, the answer is simple, the reason that suffering exists is because the god you believe in doesn't.
@@downenout8705 There is no problem in the Christian understanding. There is suffering in the world because we dont follow God's will. God being Truth and Beauty and Goodness, if we do our wills instead, it destabilizes everything, it introduces lies, ugliness, evil. Imagine being in a sparkly pure waters pool and vomiting on it, then it isnt as pleasant to be there. That is the effect of sin in the world, and there is no private sin, 'im not hurting anyone' doesnt cut it, all sin injures the world, the material and the spiritual are entangled.
We can see this in the Eden story, life is a paradise, even for animals, then we introduce sin, thus soiling everything. God says that now there will be toil and thorns. God being wonderful then uses this for our benefit, the tribulations and sufferings of life become a purification of our souls, from coal into diamonds, bending our wills to God's will. Everyone gets what is the best for their souls, if a child died, it was for the best of souls. Now this could be complicated, why would a child dying be for the best? Maybe it would grow to be a terrible person and so its mercy to take it soon? Who knows. Trying to peer into the intricate net of providence is above our intellect, imagine sewing a matrix that is the best for every single person that ever lived. Which is why God says to Job when he complains about his circumstances: 'where you there helping me measure the galaxies and stars when i made everything?' Its just above our intelectual capacity to grasp that matrix. Everything that happens to us is an opportunity for growth in holiness. We will be shown this when we die, so there will be no room for complaint. The spiritual good is the highest good, and we are given the highest good. And the sufferings of this purification compared to the joys of eternity are so disproportionate that people would gladly come back to suffer more if they could gain a tiny degree of more closeness to God.
But is there an empirical way to attest this? yes. Just read the saints, those people embrace everything providence sends at them and in doing so they live in a joy and peace that the rest of us dont have. So if you start doing like they do, you will grow in holiness too and gain that peace. MAximilian Kolbe was put in a cell to starve to death with 10 others in a ww2 concentration camp, and instead of the typical screams of horror and distress and insults that would come from those cells, he put everyone singing hymns of praise to God. This episode also shows that even in suffering, we add to it if we rebel. Like the scene in the crucifiction, there's the bad thief and the good thief besides Jesus. They have the same circumstance, but one humbles himself and goes to heaven, the other blasphemes, insults, resents, thus adding to his suffering and wasting the opportunity.
This whole thing doesnt mean God is oblivious to our suffering and simply says 'just deal with it', as God lowered Himself to the human state through the incarnation, to be able to suffer the effects of sin with us, showing His empathy towards our plight, although He was totally innocent and didnt need to suffer a purification at all. What does someone signal when they show they are willing to suffer for us - love. A dad abandons his kids and wife to go to casinos and be with hoes - no love. A parent sacrifices himself working a job he doesnt even like so that his kids have food - love.
Ok I can count, I trust that the blocked comment was spam, because I have read 41 mlasP (my comment will be blocked) so I know, and don't require protection from, the disgusting things that many Christians believe about me.
How do you know that what you are criticizing about the horrors of this world(which they are), are in fact evil, and horrors? What is it, in you, that senses this? And "knows" without any doubt that there are evils and horrors in this world?
Why does this guy have to ramble for over an hour to answer a single question and not very well? Someone got a link to some Fr Spitzer Shorts? Does the guy have any answers that are convincing in under 60-90 seconds?
There isn't a useful question that takes 60-90 seconds to answer. You'd have to ignore centuries of people struggling to answer that question. Unless you believe in destroying history then carry on
I submit these "questions" people struggle with for centuries to answer are the same because the religion is no more factual or true than the mythology that the greeks pondered 2,000 year ago before the discovery of the scientific method, printing press, and modern science. Mythology, which apparently is the root of all religion, needs things which are by definition unverifible to be taken as fact and absolutely true, when in fact there are no or scare facts to be found supporting the foundation of the ceaseless arguments in support of the religions. But yes, let us continue to construct ridicliously elaborate rambles to occlude the fact there are no facts being revealed only conjecture and assumptions asserted as facts. @@journathan
A loving god would not allow little children to suffer...
At seven, I was almost killed in a bombing. I have had two severe disabilities since. I don't think I was ever closer to God than in the six months after I was injured.