My thoughts on the Lynch film (which I do enjoy) - It seemed like if I hadn't read the books, most of those characters would've been meaningless to me. It was cool that I recognized them but it felt like it should've been adapted better in a way that simplified things.
There's definitely some streamlining and creative license in Lynch's version. The biggest thing for me from that movie is how it feels like mostly organic spaces that people are inhabiting, big sets. Event when the special effects are compositing shots together it still looks like physical things they are interacting with.
You're right about the 84 movie having charm. It also had a way better soundtrack and better exposition explaining things to non book readers. The new movies look great, but lack the charm and add unnecessary modern social commentary. Lasty, Zendaya was insufferable. No talent and she just glares angrily at everyone, even Paul lol.
I like the soundtracks in both films, should have mentioned that. The new movies gloss over a lot of the political and economic mechanisms in the universe - maybe they’ll address more of that in the new Prophecy series? Agree about Zendaya, really unfortunate what they turned Chani into - really doesn’t make sense in this telling or within what Herbert set into motion. Really curious how they will have it make sense in Messiah and really given how the Paul/Chani relationship has revolved it doesn’t surprise me that he isn’t interested in developing beyond the second book as well as the TV series going deep into the past to address the meddling and scheme setup
@@mdf_365As much as I love the Lynch movie-It had massive problems. It didn’t explain that Paul wasn’t the hero. It went all Star Wars with the “Weirding Modules.” The good. Sean Young was a much better Chani The politics were present and shown. The Spacing Guild was shown to be the massive power that it is!
@@richlisola1 I’m of the idea that Paul was the hero and Herbert retconned that aspect with Messiah and the added forward for the original after the fact. I’m not a scholar of the work, just reporting my view. Yeah, Sean Young Chani makes sense, Zendaya doesn’t but I sense they’ll use her as a foil to play up the dictatorial aspects in Denis’s third film.
@@mdf_365 -There’s some Herbert interviews online in which he talks about why he made Dune Messiah. Essentially, he always thought Paul would sort of become the bad guy in the tale. Although not because of some Anakin Skywalker switch to darkness. But rather even as a super being with prescient foresight. He was still one man buffeted about by the forces of time and human society. The Known Universe had grown stagnant and instability was inevitable. Humbling that Paul achieved power, but was powerless to stop his Fremen fanatic followers. Herbert always had that intention and he wrote Dune Messiah to dispel the idea that Paul was “the hero.” /
@@richlisola1 if you have a reference that illustrates this point from before Dune was originally published I’d love to get a look at it I’m not familiar enough with his notes so if you have something from before the serialized version was released that would be ideal. I’m aware of what he has said in the years following when it came out but it feels disingenuous like he was subverting the hero trope after that fact without something dated in advance of it coming out
Good stuff, man
Thank you - glad you had a look at it. Been a while since I did one of these
My thoughts on the Lynch film (which I do enjoy) - It seemed like if I hadn't read the books, most of those characters would've been meaningless to me. It was cool that I recognized them but it felt like it should've been adapted better in a way that simplified things.
There's definitely some streamlining and creative license in Lynch's version. The biggest thing for me from that movie is how it feels like mostly organic spaces that people are inhabiting, big sets. Event when the special effects are compositing shots together it still looks like physical things they are interacting with.
@@mdf_365 I agree about the physical spaces! Love the overall vibe of it for sure.
You're right about the 84 movie having charm. It also had a way better soundtrack and better exposition explaining things to non book readers. The new movies look great, but lack the charm and add unnecessary modern social commentary. Lasty, Zendaya was insufferable. No talent and she just glares angrily at everyone, even Paul lol.
I like the soundtracks in both films, should have mentioned that. The new movies gloss over a lot of the political and economic mechanisms in the universe - maybe they’ll address more of that in the new Prophecy series?
Agree about Zendaya, really unfortunate what they turned Chani into - really doesn’t make sense in this telling or within what Herbert set into motion. Really curious how they will have it make sense in Messiah and really given how the Paul/Chani relationship has revolved it doesn’t surprise me that he isn’t interested in developing beyond the second book as well as the TV series going deep into the past to address the meddling and scheme setup
@@mdf_365As much as I love the Lynch movie-It had massive problems.
It didn’t explain that Paul wasn’t the hero.
It went all Star Wars with the “Weirding Modules.”
The good.
Sean Young was a much better Chani
The politics were present and shown.
The Spacing Guild was shown to be the massive power that it is!
@@richlisola1 I’m of the idea that Paul was the hero and Herbert retconned that aspect with Messiah and the added forward for the original after the fact. I’m not a scholar of the work, just reporting my view.
Yeah, Sean Young Chani makes sense, Zendaya doesn’t but I sense they’ll use her as a foil to play up the dictatorial aspects in Denis’s third film.
@@mdf_365 -There’s some Herbert interviews online in which he talks about why he made Dune Messiah. Essentially, he always thought Paul would sort of become the bad guy in the tale. Although not because of some Anakin Skywalker switch to darkness.
But rather even as a super being with prescient foresight. He was still one man buffeted about by the forces of time and human society.
The Known Universe had grown stagnant and instability was inevitable. Humbling that Paul achieved power, but was powerless to stop his Fremen fanatic followers.
Herbert always had that intention and he wrote Dune Messiah to dispel the idea that Paul was “the hero.”
/
@@richlisola1 if you have a reference that illustrates this point from before Dune was originally published I’d love to get a look at it
I’m not familiar enough with his notes so if you have something from before the serialized version was released that would be ideal.
I’m aware of what he has said in the years following when it came out but it feels disingenuous like he was subverting the hero trope after that fact without something dated in advance of it coming out
I think the new films veer away from the source material in a way that's faithful to the spirit of Herbert.