TF2 - Why Dustbowl is GOOD
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- čas přidán 27. 06. 2024
- Many TF2 players are quick to label Dustbowl as bad, but what reasons might there be for why Dustbowl is good?
In this video, I go through three reasons why Dustbowl is a good map- not a bad one.
0:00 Excerpt from Uncle Dane
0:32 Excerpt from Red Robot
1:13 Introduction
2:52 Reason 1
5:53 Reason 2
7:41 Reason 3
8:31 Outro
Excerpts from Uncle Dane and Red Robot:
Uncle Dane: • The Best Bad Map In TF2
Red Robot: • TF2 - Is Dustbowl real...
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Check out my other Dustbowl-related content: • Dustbowl
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Dustbowl = Basedbowl
Real
Real Based Masterpiece. ITS MASTERPIECE+ ! ALL OF TIMES ! FPS Game History Map !
Based on what?
2fort better 🥱
painted gibus = based gibus
I've played over 2000 hours of TF2 and almost every single hour was spent on dustbowl. The reason I like dustbowl is because it forces your team to work together to overcome the choke points. When I play other maps I feel like I'm playing some sort of deathmatch type game where everybody is spread apart doing their own thing.
While this is true, such a design philosophy is dangerous in any casual shooter. For example, Overwatch's decline was/is primarily due to the game relying too heavily on coordination amongst strangers.
While Team Fortress 2 is a great deal better designed around ensuring players unconsciously work together, there's still a reason why Dustbowl's match timers are as long as they are: it's giving the attackers enough time to throw themselves at the defenders until they accidentally form a coordinated push.
While that's an undeniably clever way to deal with a team's lack of coordination, it hardly excuses having to fight through the same chokepoint for 20 minutes.
@@PotatoPatatoVonSpudsworth Overwatch had a good degree of staying power and enjoyability for several years, even if that is the reason for its decline. The stakes aren't as high in tf2 since you don't have 6v6 but rather typically 12v12.
Hoodoo has the same vibes and is great for the same reason : "blu, red, organize or loose !"
the only change i would like to see is more spawn exits. one phlog pyro can control all of them on any stage
Dustbowl has its quirks, yes. But these types of things usually only happen when one team completely overpowers the other. Having a medic with stock uber is a necessity when fighting against good teams on this map, but you could argue that this applies to any map.
Sorry, but valve doesn’t make changes to their maps. And it’s best to leave dustbowl the way it is anyway. Otherwise, go play another map
@@LEDs well it happens way too frequently
@@LEDs but spawn camping is inherently easier on some maps
Take it from an avid dustbowl enjoyer, phlog camping is so easy on this map
@@heavenandhello6629Sorry, but they do, look at steel
The newer maps have spoiled everyone that says 2Fort, Dustbowl, Gravel Pit, CP_Well, Granary, and Hydro are bad maps. These maps are full of wacky weirdness because they were all the very first to exist in the game. And you can’t beat the classics anyway
I mean you can, process and sunshine beats granary in any way possible.
5 words: you can’t beat the classics
3 words: yes you can
3 words: no you can’t
1 word: nuh-uh
I'd argue Dustbowl-style chokepoints are perfectly fine for maps, provided they're coupled with open areas. Look at Badwater and Upward for an example of this. Both of those maps alternate between narrow chokes and wide open spaces. And yes, while these are both payload maps, there remains certain crucial spots on each that function very similarly to control points.
Dustbowl DOES do this to some extent as well. That's what stops it from being Junction.
Interesting perspective.
The 20 minute timer while defending the 6th point is indeed epic!
The brutal truth is that TF2 has a lot of maps made to give certain playstyles their time to shine. While some maps go for an even playing field of sorts (viaduct) many others like swiftwater, harvest, and dustbowl are spotlight moments. In dustbowl's case if you like engineer, the phlog, and especially demoman dustbowl is your moment you are the most valuable player and it is your time in the spotlight. The map is ideal for those 3 classes to really get to strut their stuff and other classes that benefit from tight corridors get moments as well. Ultimately dustbowl isn't... my moment so I find myself gravitating away from it, but unlike others I understand maps are map with specific purposes. Saying dustbowl is bad because it is demoman heaven is like saying hightower is bad because its the perfect goof off rocket jumping map, sometimes maps are made for those very reasons.
Insightful comment, thank you
My brother's first favorite was Upward, mine was Dust bowl. You can indeed guess our mains of the time from these two infos alone :')
3:20
Looking at the scale, I guess Junktion would be off the chart for chokiness.
Unfortunate that there isn't more official pyramid a/d maps then it and Gravel Pit.
I think junction is the furthest left too
Holding the last point for 25 minutes is like an injection of dopamine. I love it.
I like how you brought up that the longer round timers end up making a game of dust bowl feel more impactful than a similar map with a short timer. It results in this huge feeling of satisfaction that I don't get from other maps, except maybe badwater or something since I also like that map.
The long timers are awesome
Yes!!!
Like them bc unlike ctf maps you know when the round ends, and its not an infinite time
I don't think dustbowl is bad, I just think the general perception of what makes "Good TF2" has changed a lot over the years to favor a different, more mobile and flanky style of play. I don't think the game around dustbowl has changed in a way that makes it obsolete mechanically, but player tastes have shifted away from it. I like this map a lot! Perhaps it's due to me playing a ton of it back in vanilla TF2 on the Xbox 360, or perhaps I just like shoving spam down a hallway. I just simply don't try to do things like wild rocket jumps and scout flanks because they simply don't work, and I don't expect them to.
Very well said, I agree
You raised some very good points in this video! I hope you plan on tackling a similar video for 2fort, because I'm curious if there's more to the appeal of the map than some people give it credit for.
Glad you liked it! I'll consider it.
I love all 6 og tf2 maps. They feel so raw to me, like they werent custom tailored to be good for any class, they were designed for simplicity, and for all classes to be able to perform well
I have always loved choke pointy maps.
And I love fighting for almost an hour in a near stalemate until a victor arises.
I get all of this from dustbowl,
Only complaint is spy is stupid hard to play on dustbowl
The problem with dustbowl Is that it's too narrow most of the times, making soldier and demo especially very powerful. When you try to play other classes like scout, you just feel useless, especially on last. I don't hate it, but it really deserves name spambowl.
Get good
Spam can be circumvented with the proper timing
I deleted my unwritten comment 3 times already because i can't describe my feelings about the Dustbowl good enough, so i will just say this: playing on any other TF2 map feels like participating in a very intense and dangerous tournament or competition, while playing on Dustbowl feels like going through small but very hot and bloody war.
🧐
@@LEDs It just feels much more brutal and "serious", gives much more adrenaline and makes you take more responsibility for objectives, because losing after 19 minutes of constant warfare is not the same as losing after 8 minutes of badwater cart pushing.
Oh, and if you thought that it was a criticism for a Dustbowl - no, this is the very reason why it's my favourite map in game, i spent about 2000 hours on it with total 4000 hours in TF2. It's very unique because of it's oldschool brutality, and i love that!
Tbh, Dustbowl is kinda frustrating because explosive spamming is very rewarding, and the way that the time adds up, it is just a joke - I mean, c'mon, 24 minutes to defend a point when you are being steamrolled doesn't seem right. We all like the game, but not everyone has the time to play a 20 minute attack phase, hence why so many quit when this happens.
To each his own.
dustbowl focuses more on positioning and game sense along with teamplay and less on individual skill and deathmatch which newer maps tend to facilitate. you are forced to play with your team because you can only be in a few certain spots and you always fight a few other enemies at the same time. newer maps tend to be more open and more focused on small 1v1/2v2/3v3 fights.
This is a great point.
sneaking in the final cap as spy on the 3rd stage is also fun too
This is so sick 😂
I was thinking that dustbowl is just a tiny map. But your video changed my opinion. Thanks for this video i really liked it 👍
I just wishing if in this SF XIV, they are gonna add, the Dustbowl halloween Event, DeathBowl.
Remember the Classics are always the gold ones.
Me too
I remember on casual dustbowl this happened
We steam rolled an easy win and it felt fine but then we got put to red team and the most crazy game of dustbowl ever happened
We get pushed to last by spam, my team is dying but I get kritz’d, we clear a choke and our team pushes up, we get pushed back with an uber and our engi nest dies, our roamer soldier dies to a flanking gibus scout, me and my med are the last ones standing. With my tracking and healing I defend until my team can push up and we push to the area right before the rocket, we trade ubers and destroy engi nests, we push them back with multiple ubers all the way to spawn, from what seemed like an easy win with 20 minute long game for them, we end up clutching and winning the game.
Thank you for stepping up to defend this misunderstood masterpiece. Dustbowl is quite enclosed, but unlike junction or turbine, there is enough room for movement to matter, and for the reasons you mentioned, there's a lot more strategic and tactical depth to it. As for the argument that older, chokier maps are "outdated," I've never understood it. The minigun, median, construction PDA, rocket launcher, and sticky launcher were around at launch. Sure, the kritzkreig and the phlog can make a huge difference, but they can be countered if the teams are balanced (the former moreso than the latter). Same deal with the wrangler; pushing would probably be a bit too easy without it, considering the amount of time BLU gets on this map. The banners, too, add some super fun strategic possibilities for soldiers and their teams. A group (or even just a pair) of experienced friends in comms coming together to coordinatedly stomp a game isn't exactly a new or fixable phenomenon, and it's a problem no matter what map it's on. The only problem with this video is your showing mercy to ridiculously-open maps like Egypt and Swiftwater - sniper can safely instakill you from far away, and there's nothing any other class can do in return (especially when the sightlines are so extreme, and even moreso on PL/AD/KOTH when the battle lines are more static than 5cp, and when the game mode is so engineer-friendly in the case of the first two), so long distances are inherently bad IMO. I suppose maps like process, foundry, and snakewater are partly able to mitigate and compensate for this deficiency with their other strengths. If the only "counter" to sniper is not to peek/fight him or to go sniper yourself, that's essentially admitting that the class is on unequal ground with the others.
Dustbowl is the equivialent of Battlefield's Metro and Metro is the equivalent of TF2's Dustbowl.
And I enjoyed and love both of them
I agree it's made me better at some classes like spy. I played dust bowl for about 3 months or so and when I went back to casual payload I found myself doing better.
I think that a good amount of people who don't like the map are playing the game wrong, they're taking too seriously.
Like the 3rd part of the map on defense I never play the 2nd point. There's always too many engineers on offence so as demo I like to try and sneak past going under in the tunnel.
I don't know why but as demo if you some how get to blue spawn with out notice it's such a great feeling. You see 4 or 5 teleporters and you start laying your stickies. A sniper and solider come out at the same time always looking down at the teleporter. Boom. They are dead. Hopefully all talk is on and you hear people freaking out. "Demo at spawn demo at spawn."
It is really rewarding pulling things like that off.
Like you said if people don't like it that's fine.
I like it. If I only have a small amount of time to play i always choose dustbowl with barnblitz as a second choice.
Barnblitz is another favorite of mine
Fuck yeah, at 8:00 you make the perfect argument : 10 minutes stalemate shit shows on last section are fun. Hell it's even a specific point I identified explaining why I like certain games like Hell Let Loose or PlanetSide 2 : some parts of the map are exactly that : a shit show, spamming, hiding in cover most of the time, cover fire for your teammates, coordinated pushes or bust... Team play and constant stress.
Dust bowl is the first map I really enjoyed playing when I still had a crappy computer btw, for that very reason : there is a place for cover / supression / harassment fire, in TF2. Which is great.
To the left of dustbowl: Junction
I think the same thing
So, I think you nailed the first 2 points. As someone who has about 600 hours on the game, I never knew about the first 2 prop jumps, so thank you for that. However, I am going to have to disagree with you on the long rounds. TF2 is an arcade based shooter, which usually favors short games. Having the longer games in my eyes tends to make it drag out. While it does help that the last point where you normally see the 20+ minute rounds is normally favored by red, that can really help blu team there. However, after about 5 minutes it starts to feel stale to me. Otherwise, great analysis!
Thank you
I can agree, Dustbowl=Bestbowl
Personally I really like Dustbowl, that's when I'm on the winning team, since most of the time when you are on the losing team it's just you waiting for 9 minutes to end
good video dude
i always loved dustbowl and base tf2 maps
2:44
Twitter users: *Dear God*
this vid is 4:40 am gold, keep it up
im from brazil btw, if you read comments, so you're international, good job
Thank you
I remember SpaceGuyOnline's video on it where he said something interesting: the map is not playable by all classes. Good luck playing Spy or Scout when you need to capture the last points 😢
I don't see that as a problem.
lets go new LED vid
💡
oh yeah og man its like tf2s d day its so fun and crazy sometimes.
-Good, Awesome- IT'S NOT ! ITS MASTERPIECE+ ! ALL OF TIMES ! FPS Game History Map !
*Act Man*
Sinces 1999-2000 TO Present !
I think it's too small for 24 players, but perfectly fine for sixes.
I just don't like to play it because I hate the visual theme. If it randomly alternated between a Day and Night version, I'd probably be more interested in playing it. As is it's just something I throw on while I wait for a better map that isn't bot infested because I know I can pretty much always find a Dustbowl lobby basically full with few, if any, bots and unlike 2Fort it's not offensively bad where very little ever actually happens and you get attacked just for trying to play the game.
dustbowl is nabler approved
Good to know that I got the nabler group on my side!
Personally, i think that Dustbowl is here to stay just like any other map but i won't queue for it either. As soon as the timer goes up to 20 minutes everyone (especially on red) seems to go into full tryhard mode with 3 Snipers and Engies on last which makes it a pain to capture even if you have uber.
This just boils down to personal preference. I enjoy stalemates, but others do not
thats good
Id say, Dust bowl is Terrible when the teams are not even at ALL. But I do agree/understand ur point tho
One phlog Pyro can destroy a game !
6:11 Plus, there also used to be a bug in 2007 of where you would VERY easily be able to build a tele exit behind that fence to trap your team. And while you were trapped, it was still easily possible for you to shoot through the fence as well as for sentries. Then in January 2008, valve patched it by adding nobuild triggers in there. But that doesn’t mean the WHOLE spot doesn’t have nobuild though. If you noclip to get in there and go to the far left, you will see that valve didn’t add nobuild there mainly because it was still impossible for players to build in there without noclip after they did the patch. Anyway, as I said before, just like every possible exploit that the game had on the release year including this one I mentioned, it’s still possible to do with tf2 on the Orange Box game bundle pack for Xbox 360 since it’s the 2007 version of the game with the same exact build, and it never got updated for 15 years unlike the pc version. Tell everyone who wants to play the 2007 version about it. Most people say you should play tf2 classic if you want the 2007 experience but I’d recommend not listening to them since tf2 classic was made by a noob that never knew you could just play the version I said
Shut up
@@papadane6807 EXACTLY!
Bro just deleted his comment! I think he started crying because I ROASTED him! 🤪
@@heavenandhello6629 what are you talking about I didn’t delete a thing
@@papadane6807 Then I don’t know why I can’t see it even if I wear some nerdy glasses
sweet
my favorite map xd
Cool
Also first
Grats, you get a flash!
this made me wanna play dustbowl lol
That's good!
Cringebowl + arena better
I hate dustbowl because of the phlog + pocket med
love*
@@LEDs definitely not what he meant.
For me, Dustbowl is a good map
Why are you Based:
( Dustbowl is my fav map :>)
i dont really care about muh map good or muh map bad, i just think bringing up the "middl gron may not alway b gud????" logical fallacy was a bit unnecessary. you can just say your tastes are different without bringing those memes into the equation
That’s called logic, and it’s not a meme…
The movement and shots point is silly. Any map forces you to be good with how you play. You only get punished more on dustbowl because its harder to dodge rockets in a corridor. Plus you get a false sense of satisfaction. Since your win is entirely dependant on how good the enemy soldier is.
As for props giving slight reroutes. Every other map does this, its just integrated into the map better than with a single prop.
This is false. When a map like Dustbowl has less area, you have to be more conscious of your movement for the very reason that you are more likely to run into spam.
And to your second point: also wrong.
Upward has only 1 shortcut that can be accessed from jumping off a rock and doesn’t really matter in the first place, Badwater has nothing, and 2fort has nothing.
Uncle Dane is Nerd. Screw it Him
ambitious boomer map
ah yea
cp_goldrush. i love that map 24/7 dustbowl is my jam