Archery | The Thumb Draw
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- čas přidán 4. 07. 2019
- A brief introduction to the thumb draw, as used in many forms of Asiatic archery.
Bows:
Istvan Toth Mongolian Bow
Kaya KTB
Thumb Ring:
Vermil Archery Classic
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Twitter:
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Ha! That's the way I drew my home made stick and string bow when I was a kid. When I was told later that I was doing it "wrong" I wish I had known this!
The first time I've seen exactly where the string goes on the thumb ring. Thank you. 👍
Aha one small correction for once, a mounted archer is an archer who normally gets of the horse to shoot, quite common in English history. A Horseback archer is one that shoots from the horse.
In western culture, asians just called it mounted.
I doubt that was standardized in western culture, let alone globally back in the times when we weren't obsessed with being specific & many couldn't even read.
I really appreciate how you really explained how it works, i’ve always wanted to try it but nobody shows exactly how it works, until now thank you
A very intriguing method. Now there's, again, something new I want to try out myself. Thanks for the short albeit informative video.
seeing the thumb draw on this channel is very cool & I have to appreciate the time that was put in to study this now more unorthodox technique.
Love your recurve bow! Ive been doing archery for 3 years now and never used the thumb draw.
I have just purchased my first horse bow, as recommended by my friend, for fun and mental health benefits. This video was extremely helpful for me as a beginner before I head to the range and make a fool of myself. Thank you for making this.
Thanks for your guide especially for the new archer
Your vids are great. You present the info really well and with perfect pacing.
_Ishi,_ an American native of the Yahi tribe, was raised from birth in the northern Californian wilderness during the late 1800's (dying in 1916). He drew his bow thumb draw, covering his nail with his middle finger and using his index to hold the arrow in place. His is noted for not using a thumb ring, due to the decades having so thickened the skin of his thumb.
I LOVED your explanation for the thumb draw. Thank you for this valuable insight. Would you please explain how your aiming?
thanks sir i was searching for this a lot .everywhere i only finds the finger draw .I thought what iam practicing is wrong.Finally i got what i wanted .Thanks a lot
Always educational, thanks!
I shoot compound bow, but I really can't give up my Korean bow , I love thumb shooting . Actually the whole compound idea is based on asian archery. Thank you , nice video ! 🙏
do you use thumb ring aswell ?
It's new, you put a little music during your video clips. Kind of music we hear when we wait in the elevator.. 😃
thatnk god, I was looking for this everywhere
This was awesome! Thanks a lot!
this is truly epic
The Angry, Greedy Draw!
Great Show Nui.
Thank you very much for this video. I recently purchased a light bow (about 30 pounds) and am very interested in this type of arrow release. Could you make a video about buying the thumb rings? Many times manufacturers ask for strange measures and it is not pleasant to wait months and then have rings delivered in the wrong size.
Very nice and very clean technique...
I’m always having a problem with keeping thing as relaxed and open ...
Working on it, though 🙂👍🇨🇦
Some indigenous tribes here in Brazil that still use bow and arrow shoot with a thumb draw while others shoot with a variation of the mediterranian draw.
And watching some videos I've noticed that it's very common among some of the tribes near the Amazon Forest to use extremely long arrows and I'm talking about arrows that can be more or less 150 cm long. They do have shorter arrows too.
Bows in the amazon tend to be huge, generally taller than the user, might be to compensate in power
@@kyomademon453 that's what I think but I know very little about archery
@@drogadepc could also be the wood or the height of the people, i once "used" one in a trip but could hardly pull it back, def a high draw weight
Great video
great tutorial man...tx,,
could you do a video on the 'dagger' technique please
Great info
I have been shooting with my homemade horn thumbrings for a couple years and far prefer it to the mediteranean draw. My accuracy is about equal to the med draw.
I must point out that modern Mongolian archers still use the thumb draw, but put the arrow on the inside of the bow.
I've noticed that.
I think in the contexts they shoot today that’s more viable than in the context of combat which requires more speed and stability than extreme precision. That’s just my guess
Thanks for this video, Nu. I got a Turkish style bow about a year ago and have been using the standard Mediterranean draw which requires me to cant the bow clockwise a good deal. When I switch to thumb style will I need to cant the bow in the other direction or hold it vertically like a target recurve?
Just hold it as your body feels. Either vertical, or tilt clockwise. With traditional archery, almost everything that feels right will be right
I know all of this, but it's still interesting to watch 😁
One warning to people who try this, though. If your thumb ring is too large, swap it for a tighter fit. I tried stuffing mine with leather, to make it more tight, but it just doesn't work. I have 'string catchers" on my bow, and even with them the string derails. Never had that problem on a tight leather thumb guard.
Those would be called bridges. If you are unstringing, there was more going wrong than just an ill fitted ring. The ring probably was the trigger for what ever else was happening.
@@ehisey It doesn't happen in any other case. It happened a few times and I stopped using that ring. I ordered a smaller one. Been shooting leather no problems. Mediterranean as well.
Sensei please tell us about the thumb ring!
Are there any right handed draw bows that also knock the arrow on the right side of the bow??
Thanks, i think this is better on horse archery
My nation did it so i need too :D
were did you get your left hand glove?
I'd also like to know
ayyy giving us koreans a shoutout! keep up the work sensei!
i read your comment with an accent..sorry for pointing that out to ya
hello nu sensei. is there any differences for 'the aiming' with the three finger draw and the thumb draw? i kind of losing my accuracy when aiming with the thumb draw, the arrow goes a little bit to the right of the target. thank you for the lesson.
Hey!
Indeed, there is a difference. If you don't have an arrow window carved into the handles middle, you will always shoot off center.
Mediterranean is usually going to the left (if the arrow is shot from that side, of course), while the same archer would shoot a bit to the right instead, when using the thumb draw. So you feel maybe like compensating the 20cm the arrow would usually go to the left, but it might also be another 20 cm when going to the other draw.
@@preppmatic9543 it's all about compensating i guess. the more i play, the better result i get. thank you so much for your answer.
Thanks a lot.
Where did you get the hand guard that you're using in the bow hand?
Great video! I want to get into Chinese horsebow archery in the UK, how would you suggest finding a coach? I have done some search on the internet but nothing comes up
This is Mongolian
Thank you
I have read that a thumb ring is considered a release aid under World Archery Barebow rules. Is this correct and if so do you know why? How would it be different from using a tab or glove?
The thumb ring, by design, acts as a "hook" for the release.
@@NUSensei Would that give a significant advantage to a competitor though? It seems like a pretty minor thing that basically restricts this style of shooting from competition.
It is a sore point among thumbring archers. It is not more an aid than a tab or glove. All three are meant to provide a cleaner release.
@@ehisey thats kind of my thinking as well. Where is the line between release aid and digit protection? Personally I think they drew the line incorrectly in this case.
Where did you get your hoodie?
Some great beard there
How about a video on Slavic release?
Is there any reason or situation to use one draw style over another, or is it pretty much just preference?
With a longer, western style bow, I don't see any practical benefit to either style. With a shorter Asiatic horse bow, thumb draw has a definite advantage because since the bow is shorter, the string is drawn to a more acute angle, which can pinch your fingers in a three-finger draw. Since only one digit is on the string with the thumb draw, it's more comfortable for the shooter, as well as allowing the bow to be drawn just slightly further.
Cleaner release
That’s a slick hoodie. What brand is it!?
It should be faster to notch arrow with thumb draw, since the shooter can skip the step of moving arrow to inside of bow
Thank you, very clear. So the knock point of this bow is higher than the middle of the string?! I have my Mongolian fiberglass/wood bow since two days and if I put the arrow in the middle of the string it passes through the middle of the leather handle, obliging me to hold out of it..
Yes, it should be higher.
how did you build that target?
Great video. I dunno if you look at your 2 year old videos. Hopefully you do see the comments. I have a question if I may. I am practising thumb draw with a ring and I am consistently firing to the right. With Mediterranean I feel like I am aiming and hitting where I am pointing but with thumb draw I need to aim left to hit the target I am aiming at which is a little confusing. Am I doing something wrong? Thanks!
Shooting off to the right is a fairly normal problem that people encounter, especially transitioning from Mediterranean. Remember that the arrow is pointing in the other direction, your vision is different, etc. Just as flaws with grip and release will make an arrow deviate left with a Mediterranean draw, the same mistakes will make the arrow drift right with a thumb draw. Focusing on a clean release and examine how you are gripping the bow (depending on your style, you may or may not be using khatra).
@@NUSensei thanks for the response! Yeah I was practising the double draw you mentioned in one of your videos which you mentioned was pretty much khatra. It definitely felt like it was better. But it’s really inconsistent still. Whereas when I switch back to Mediterranean with same bow and arrows I consistently hit the target which is in this case is a drawing pin from just 2 metres near the ground. With Mediterranean it feels like I know what I am doing to adjust placement. With the thumb draw I’m sure it’s my technique which is making it so inconsistent. I removed the thumb ring and I got it working a little better but this is on a low poundage sipahi bow to just get the technique right. When I do switch to the main sipahi bow of much higher poundage I have to use a thumb ring but it’s too much for my thumb and arms still but the arrows do seem to hit centre more consistently albeit I am not really getting a full draw due to the poundage.
Nice ! But I shoot thumb release with a manchu bow, and I struggle to aim. I can't align the arrow and the target because I don't see the arrow tip. Any advices ?
Gao Ying mentions a method of estimation that goes along the lines of following the shaft with the eye and tracing an imaginary line to the target
@@abdullahyusof4739 Thanks for the advice, i'll try !
Thanks
Great mini lesson, Nu Sensei! Can you do a Khatra video next time and how it effects the performance of thumb draw? Anyways, thank you and your beard is looking awesome!
Khatra is a style specific thing. Not all thumbdraws use or benefit from it.
@@ehisey style or technique? the only one with any validity is kyodo however newtons 3rd law so why does it work or not ? hypothyreose need testing
@@mortenjacobsen5673 Manchu and other agressive dashao bows will unstrung with rotational khatra, so the methods for shooting them developed with out it. Xiashao bows on tge other hand can take it just fine and most khatra systems were developed with them, The yumi is the only big bow I am aware if that expects, to the degree the bow is baised to left or fight usage for it. Whether it actually improves speed or distance a statistically signifucant amount, I have not seen evidence to really suppport it.
And I total did not answer the question. In this case I think both is the answer. Some styles use it and not all atyles use the same techniques that do use it. Agrre about the yumi, also low braced Korean need a bit, but like the yumi it is an effect of proper draw rather than an addon.
@@ehisey www.shuitsukankyudojo.de/publications/downloads/manual.pdf czcams.com/video/nS1L1Ez1pZ0/video.html
Nothing on the thumb ring ?
It's probably a better idea to use those three fingers that come after the thumb with the arrow on t left side.
When I do it this way with my self bow the arrow just goes wacky and hits almost sideways nock right
Is the thumb draw feasible without the thumb ring?
I think I'm having an issue with my draw style or the bow is not that great (which I doubt). Everytime I pull back and release, the string goes "off-track" or basically the string flies forward infront of the bow derailing it. It's happened a lot on a few livestreams and during practice. I've not grown up with this style so I'm not sure what's wrong. I usually practice or stream barebow, as I've grownup with it, but I'll occasionally try the Korean bow and am very interested. But it more than often malfunctions now. Not sure what to do, or what I'm doing wrong.
I noticed that you do not anchor at the corner of the mouth, is that normal with the thumb draw?
Do you know if Chinese archers held extra arrows in their draw hand (like with the last two fingers for example) or if that was mainly Middle Eastern?
This would seem to be rarely - if ever - mentioned in Chinese sources, both textual and visual.
@@NUSensei That's what it seems like, 'cause I've been looking and yeah it seems to be one at a time there. The closest I've seen is the Japanese with one extra between the ring finger and pinky so yeah, figured I'd ask one of the "experts" for a 'second opinion' or something. Thanks man
A question. I shoot with a traditional bow and as of late my arrows are hitting my target at an angle. The point of the arrow is pointing left when hitting the target. Sometimes the shaft hits entirely. What am I doing wrong? How can I correct it?
If all your arrows are pointing left, then your arrows are not correctly matched. If _some_ arrows are off and some aren't, it's to do with your release. It's likely a combination of both if some shots are so bad that the shaft hits instead of the point.
did you use your knocking point? in one frame it looked like you didnt.
love the vids man. I like to practice thumb draw with a fixed crawl with the arrow on the left of the riser ( Im a right handed shooter). the fixed crawl doesn't push the arrow off the rest and it works surprisingly well.
@Chris C any barebow archer knows what that is.
@Chris C you could just be a big girl and type in fixed crawl in the search bar.
@Chris C your a barebow archer 😂😂😂.....sure u are
Why in mongolian archery do they put an arrow on the left side despite using thumb draw?
In that style of target shooting, the arrow is placed on the left side so it's possible to aim using the arrow head (normally not very visible since it's blocked by the bow). Obviously, care must be taken to not press the arrow with one's index finger, since that would knock the arrow off its rest. A clean release is also a bit more important, but that's the case anyway with precision target shooting.
Interesting. Traditional archery just has a stronger appeal to me personally
Yep same here. When it comes to guns, I like it high tech. With optics, laser pointer, and angled foregrip if I’m using rifles. But when it comes to bows/archery, I like to keep it traditional. Not ragging on conpound bow users. But there’s just something so damn cool seeing someone shoot with traditional bows. Especially when you watch movies like Lord of the Rings and Legolas takes center stage.
NuSensei, love your videos. You rightly mention that there are a few different types of thumb draws, but merely drawing the string with the thumb supported by a curled index finger can be dangerous in the long run, leading to thumb joint fatigue or worse. The suggested method has the tip of your thumb (wearing the thumb ring) pressing firmly against the side of the 2nd segment of the curled middle finger. The index finger merely rests upon the front of the thumbnail but the index finger is not taking all of the force. Thus the thumbnail is not being compacted by the string and index finger which would cause discomfort and eventual injury to the thumb joint. @t
These mounted archers use the thumb draw method and suggest likewise: www.bow-international.com/features/step-by-step-the-thumb-draw/
How to aim with thumb draw method? As the arrow on the other side.
At full draw, try and follow the arrow shaft with the eye and then imagine a line tracing all the way to the target
You mostly want to aim instinctively, which is where you really don’t aim other than just knowing where it will go when you shoot from experience
Is the thumb ring easy to loose if shooting on horseback?
the I got has a wrist strap so it’s impossible for it to be pulled off.
maybe I'm doing something wrong, but when I try this draw, it feels like my thumb would break. Is the thumb ring necessary?
My thumb feels pressure as well, I’m pretty sure our thumbs are just weak from lack of use, practice is the only way to strengthen them
So it's not superior over three fingers, just different?
I have 50 pound mongol horse bow
It’s basically the bow your holding
But my question is
What’s the perfect arrow length
And the perfect string
And if I don’t have a stringerer
How do I do so without one
Every person has a different arrow length, is about draw lenght
Ray so the arrow is the draw length
?
@@shadowdeslaar pretty much yes, arrow lenght is draw lenght plus a bit more. The spine also matters a lot. I dont know whay spine youll need but you can find charts and stuff on the googles
Which nation was the first that introduced "the Thumb Draw"?
I think that is lost in pre-history. It is used on some ancient Egyptian and Assyrian reliefs, so it has been around for at least that long.
Best evidence to look for would be to find national with earliest record of some sort of thumb protection for drawing the bow. Thumb draw is impossible without a thumb ring, so therefore the nation with earliest record of thumb rings probably invented thumb draw. Unless of course early thumb rings were made of bones or leather which can be decomposed, then records can become harder to track.
@@Jake-dh9qk it is not impossible by any means to use thumb release without a ring.
@@JayBoGuitar up to 30-40lb maybe
@@Jake-dh9qk I shoot my 70lb horn bow without a ring
the main reason for drawing the arrow on the same side of the bow was for firerate, although stabilization is surely another reason.
It isn't - and the historical sources don't claim that the thumb side has to be faster. While it is generally easier to be faster and smoother with the thumb draw, in practice the rate of shooting is fairly consistent across all styles, with the exception of the shower shooting method, which is more unique to Middle Eastern archery and not seen in other styles that use the thumb draw, such as Chinese, Korean, and Japanese. Benefits to speed may be a secondary factor, one that isn't used by every culture that used the thumb draw.
Request how to aim with horsebow
30 lbs bow?
The Nubians also used thumb rings and they are massive compared to Asian thumb rings.
They look the similar ,if not the same to manchu thumb rings
try using a thumb draw with self nock s and without pinching the arrow. nightmare
Thumb shooting looks like a more efficient way to shoot
Pro-tip: before getting in the habit of shooting thumb draw with a tight 'lock' on your draw, shave that index tab off your nocks so you don't cut yourself while demonstrating the thumb draw in a renowned tri-river area traditional archery suppliers's indoor range....
It be great if u can show the Japanese Yumi and style
Yumi sucks weakass bow too large n ugly
Errrr ok so ??
Hardly. The bow has higher specs than the ELB, which is for some reason considered "godly". Yumi is a fast powerful bow when used at the weights it was designed for.
Collapse release clearly
Thumb draw has advantages when shooting from the horse. I don't find it that useful today because Mediterranean draw and release allow for very good arrow control.
Mongol bows are great, much better than any longbow as they feel like handling broomstick :)
I’m just getting into archery, but thumb draw also seems good if you want to be mobile while shooting rather then hold still
@@logans3365 After watching it one more time thumb draw makes sense, although i'm not sure if it works well with stronger bows from ~50 pounds up most experienced shooters have here. I hope you will not hunt animals with the bow because way too many shots are not lethal, even when they are animals suffer for quite some time, many die after days of agony...
@@codaalive5076 I would only hunt wild animals with a bow in survival situation.
I already have a thumb ring, and my Mongolian style bow arrives tomorrow, it will be cool to put all the techniques Iv been watching to the test
@@logans3365 Great, Mongolian bow is very effective weapon fun to shoot 👍 I used to compete with long bow because we didn't have enough shooters with Mongolian bows, despite preferring it to broom stick feel of the long bow. How many pounds of power does yours have? 50 pounds is a lot, probably too much because you will start shooting from several meters, then 10, 20, i don't really know if Mongolian does over 70 meters like long bow.
@@codaalive5076 it’s all a 30, I only started being physically active a couple months ago so I’m still relatively weak unfortunately. Especially when using the thumb draw a figured it was better to start small and work up. The highest draw weight I have seen for sale so far is 50, but Iv seen speed tests of Mongolian vs much higher draw long bows and they are comparable, so I’m not sure draw weight is everything when comparing the different bow styles.
Lama dah aku nak cari cara sebegini
Very much looking forward to giving this a whirl. Thanks again NUSensei.
What I noticed when shooting thumb draw on a horse bow you need to "swing" your bow to the left after your shot to give the arrow a good clearance. If you dont do that the arrow tends to fly far right of the target. Is that correct?
Yes. This is called "khatra".
Only if your arrow is not properly spined. Quatra makes a big difference at shorter ranges before the arrow has time to correct itself. At longer distances the arrow will stabilize itself the same as with western style.
@@JayBoGuitar yes. I shoot mainly at short distances with this bow. Im not rlly focused on score i shoot this bow more for fun.
@@NUSensei thank you.
JayBoGuitar That still effects arrow speed, however. Not saying that khatra increases arrow speed but with it, you can inherently straighten out the arrow's flight from the get-go. When khatrah isn't done, the arrow will usually encounter on to a lot of wind resistance pushing against the shaft when flying tilted which takes away much of the potential for what the initial velocity of the arrow could've been.
you are awesome, so wish i could get into archery but $$ is required lol ....thanks for your content ;)
Make your own bow lol
Looking forward to Nu demonstrating the feet draw, over the head while doing a handstand.
Ah yes, the "wtf how is that even possible draw" looking forward to that
Peepee draw
Use a light draw weight bow while learning. A nylon bow that can be shot left or right handed is best. It's not expensive and useful for kids to use too. Trying to learn to thumb draw with a 50 pound Hungarian bow left me very frustrated.
I just built a bow and have yet no fucking idea how to 2 finger or 3 finger draw
So. Thumb draw is like holding an automatic sub machine gun sideways while driving through San Andreas
And three finger draw is your accurate long barrel 50x magnification scope .308 rifle?
Are you willing to try other shapes of pods in Korea?
- koreabow man -
구독해요~
I think this works a lot better, I’m a beginner, so I get string slap a lot even though I have an arm guard, I’ve been improving my form but with this method I don’t get string slap that much!
I dont care about it being authentic or not. That just seems a lot easier to do than western archery, with the arrow wobbling around everywhere and stuffs
Well even the scythians used it who would by today's standards be deemed european/Caucasian .
Lol we were literally talking about this
Aaaaa. 4:29 - dry fire. xD
Not really as long as youre not drawn half way its fine
@@peezysmith5245 Know, just joke xD.
Omg, mr Nguyen
so why does he refer to china as a whole and then mention the ethnic group who ruled china most of history the Han
first
You overlap the index finger way too far over the thumb and crowd the nock. The tip of your index finger should be on the thumbnail and pointing straight down, not curled in. It will give you a way cleaner release.
How dare u disagree with the king
Your preference!
Nu has some issues with his thumbdraw, but he is much newer to it than med. And he ibviously is working to improve.
@@ehisey there are several ways to hook and lock , one finger , two fingers finger angels type of rings etc
@@mortenjacobsen5673 don't disagree, but all of them have certain similairties and common mistakes. In this case when Nu hooks he sometimes over hooks the ring. That style ring tends to promote it, along it with being a common early issue in single hook.