It absolutely baffles me that this video only has 31K views 8 years later. Detailed teardowns are literally a deduction on non-recurring engineering costs!
400hz is common in aviation (less metal weight in alternators and transformers,and high engine speed), and a 50/60Hz PSU will usually run on 400Hz with no mods, so they might as well include it in the spec to catch a few more orders
As an expat Brit I have no trouble following Mike; from 3:47 (pointing at Analog Devices Blackfin DSP, which Rigol are fond of using) "It's interesting they use that rather than using, say, an FPGA that's got a DSP on it - one reason for that is that FPGA silicon space is quite expensive, so that's why a lot of manufacturers are moving away from this idea of integrating, uh, producing a soft-core processor on the FPGA just 'cos it's quite expensive, and they're now moving to put things like hard ARM cores on" (for example the Xilinx ZYNQ, which EEVBlog just found inside a National Instruments all-in-one scope/analyzer/psu/etc)
I always wondered if the regulators were fast enough to cope with the noise, but I guess the decoupling caps get rid of that? Very impressed at the build quality!
If you need lots of pins, a CPLD can sometimes work out cheaper and simpler than a microcontroller. Especially if you need to keep it quiet for EMC - no keyscanning, and controllable edge rates
That was my first idea too. The company I worked for a year ago did the same, but in English. It's easier to explain to assembly personnel to put black wire in the holes marked with "Black" then to explain the technical background.
Interesting thing that they've populated the programming/jtag interfaces. Usually thse pads are populsted ionly suridn development, and in series production everything gets programmed with bed-of-nails style adapters.
I love the shirts you wear sometimes. NO I WONT FIX YOUR....... lol that one was my favorite. if you sold shirts like that I and more and likely everyone else who watches your channel would want one too. have a good day mr mike.
Epcos manufactures most of their capacitors in Hedinheim an der Brenz, Germany. From what I understand, some of them, particularly certain sizes of supercaps for use in electric vehicles, are being made elsewhere, like in China or Malaysia.
Either they are deluding themselves into thinking it makes it hard to copy, or disguising that chips are being overclocked, or possibly from a dubious source. Rigol have used overclocked ADCs in scopes the past
Th eonly difference on the higher models looks like the output stage risetime, but unless there are also hardware differences (e.g. faster amp) I wouldn't expect it to be encoded with hardware buils options - these are more likely so that software knows about any hardware changes that need different software behaviour - alternate parts, chip revs, omitted LAN etc.
Probably. I had a quick look at the usual suppliers but didn't see anything other than the usual brands. Do they come in much cheaper than Tek or Agilent stuff?
love your t-shirt Mike :o) Eek, if I'd forked out for one of them, I'd be scared to take it apart, because with my luck, I'd bugger it :o( Wow, finally, something out of China that is well built, designed and built to last :o)
Frequencies as high as 400 Hz are used in aircraft, spacecraft, submarines, server rooms for computer power, military equipment, and hand-held machine tools. Transformers and motors for 400 Hz are much smaller and lighter than at 50 or 60 Hz. United States military standard MIL-STD-704 exists for aircraft use of 400 Hz power.
Wow, I am amazed about the *fiberglass* PCB in the power supply. I've only ever seen paper or paper hybrid PCBs in Chinese power supplies. Goes to show that the Chinese CAN deliver good quality products, if they want to.
The Chinese on the PSU is the color of the wire colors (or the first sign if several in the Chinese name). Similar to markings like BLK, YLW and so on.
The 14W shown by the meter are presumably caused by the fact, that the standby-operation turns of the pfc and therefore the chep meter only reads the peaks of current when the capacitor charges, you should look with an oscilloscope to get better readings...
I don't know Chinese, but Japanese uses similar characters (got them from China a few hundred years ago; the language itself is completely different though). The characters on the board seem to be the colors of the corresponding wires. At least the ones for black, white and yellow are very similar to the japanese ones.
I'm not sure if somebody mention it but it looks like same power supply than for Rigol DS2072 osciloscope. So it meean they are using same design for osciloskope as for this signal generator. Even power supply is same. That is good idea also...Unfortunatly it isn't cheap generator..but you will pay for quality.
I don't read chinese really but near the white one it looked like 白 -- white and near the black ones it looks a bit like 黒 which is black in Japanese.. so maybe it's the wire colours for the people that solder the loom on. Overall all it proves that the Chinese can produce decent products.
Using Google Translate will show you (English > Chinese) the symbols on the power supply PCB are actually just labels for the colors. As such something tells me it uses good parts with Chinese labor maybe? lol
I saw this video and thought, hmmm, looks nice. Such a waveform generator must a couple thousand euro's! So I looked it up on google, clicked first shop, 650 euro. Hmm, that's very good.. I think you only get 1-ch 10MHz from a well established brand with that money. Maybe Rigol equipment isn't that bad after all. I saw some complaints about Rigol DS1052E having noise issues on the last batches, does anyone know those issues are legit or resolved? Seems quite interesting for the hobbyst!
That Brennenstuhl meter is just bad, really bad. A Dutch consumer tv show (kassa) tested a couple of these plug-between watt meters, the Brennenstuhl is the second worst as far as I can remember. It has a average deviation of 210,30% compared to a calibrated laboratory meter.
紅 - red
綠 - green
黃 - yellow
黑 - black
灰 - gray
白 - white
褐 - brown
橙 - orange
It absolutely baffles me that this video only has 31K views 8 years later. Detailed teardowns are literally a deduction on non-recurring engineering costs!
400hz is common in aviation (less metal weight in alternators and transformers,and high engine speed), and a 50/60Hz PSU will usually run on 400Hz with no mods, so they might as well include it in the spec to catch a few more orders
Very thorough tear down, and evaluation with good news to boot, well done.
That unit looks fantastic. Phenomenal video as well.
Great piece...I could listen to Mike all day long.
Wow, nice piece of test equipment.
Good teardown.
It does correspond fairly well with the DMM current reading
Looking forward to the full review.
Good video, really nice build quality in there.
As an expat Brit I have no trouble following Mike; from 3:47 (pointing at Analog Devices Blackfin DSP, which Rigol are fond of using)
"It's interesting they use that rather than using, say, an FPGA that's got a DSP on it - one reason for that is that FPGA silicon space is quite expensive, so that's why a lot of manufacturers are moving away from this idea of integrating, uh, producing a soft-core processor on the FPGA just 'cos it's quite expensive, and they're now moving to put things like hard ARM cores on"
(for example the Xilinx ZYNQ, which EEVBlog just found inside a National Instruments all-in-one scope/analyzer/psu/etc)
Yes - will be doing a full review when I get time but looks good so far
Good voice he has, sure! Clear and understandable.
Prepared, nice and calm... I agree!
I always wondered if the regulators were fast enough to cope with the noise, but I guess the decoupling caps get rid of that?
Very impressed at the build quality!
If you need lots of pins, a CPLD can sometimes work out cheaper and simpler than a microcontroller. Especially if you need to keep it quiet for EMC - no keyscanning, and controllable edge rates
I will do a review when I get time - very busy at the moment!
Linear supply for analogue stages is common - a good way to filter noise cheaply.
That was my first idea too.
The company I worked for a year ago did the same, but in English.
It's easier to explain to assembly personnel to put black wire in the holes marked with "Black" then to explain the technical background.
Interesting video. Thanks for sharing!
That's incredibly high standby power consumption. I was expecting around 0.5W with that dedicated standby power supply.
I don't think those measurements are very accurate -- likely a bad power factor.
Although the fuses are probably not properly rated for DC at this voltage (arc extinguishing issues), and some PSUs' PFC circuitry might get confused.
"If it isn't broken, fix it until it is"
:-)
Interesting thing that they've populated the programming/jtag interfaces. Usually thse pads are populsted ionly suridn development, and in series production everything gets programmed with bed-of-nails style adapters.
I love the shirts you wear sometimes. NO I WONT FIX YOUR....... lol that one was my favorite. if you sold shirts like that I and more and likely everyone else who watches your channel would want one too. have a good day mr mike.
I like to think of Rigol as the Toyota of test gear, affordable and solid.
Epcos manufactures most of their capacitors in Hedinheim an der Brenz, Germany. From what I understand, some of them, particularly certain sizes of supercaps for use in electric vehicles, are being made elsewhere, like in China or Malaysia.
Either they are deluding themselves into thinking it makes it hard to copy, or disguising that chips are being overclocked, or possibly from a dubious source. Rigol have used overclocked ADCs in scopes the past
Th eonly difference on the higher models looks like the output stage risetime, but unless there are also hardware differences (e.g. faster amp) I wouldn't expect it to be encoded with hardware buils options - these are more likely so that software knows about any hardware changes that need different software behaviour - alternate parts, chip revs, omitted LAN etc.
They could do more to raise their profile here. I think some of the established UK distributors have been put off by direct imports via ebay.
Probably. I had a quick look at the usual suppliers but didn't see anything other than the usual brands. Do they come in much cheaper than Tek or Agilent stuff?
love your t-shirt Mike :o) Eek, if I'd forked out for one of them, I'd be scared to take it apart, because with my luck, I'd bugger it :o(
Wow, finally, something out of China that is well built, designed and built to last :o)
@ the Chinese markings . . .
If I had to guess, I would say they are color labels for the wires to assist the Chinese assemblers.
Frequencies as high as 400 Hz are used in aircraft, spacecraft, submarines, server rooms for computer power, military equipment, and hand-held machine tools. Transformers and motors for 400 Hz are much smaller and lighter than at 50 or 60 Hz. United States military standard MIL-STD-704 exists for aircraft use of 400 Hz power.
Wow, I am amazed about the *fiberglass* PCB in the power supply. I've only ever seen paper or paper hybrid PCBs in Chinese power supplies. Goes to show that the Chinese CAN deliver good quality products, if they want to.
In case you were interested, the bits in chinese on the power supply just say the color of the wire connected to them.
The Chinese on the PSU is the color of the wire colors (or the first sign if several in the Chinese name). Similar to markings like BLK, YLW and so on.
Oh, okay, just found it a bit curious, as you usually see CPLDs for more complex stuff. :p
Thanks!
He says "remember things putting the halt on called sawmill" acording to the annotations. I listened 10 times, and I had no idea what he said either.
No major complaints but I've not used it for anything demanding, Lack of a wide-range pulse mode is an annoying omission.
Yes - just google them - you'll find suppiers and prices
The 14W shown by the meter are presumably caused by the fact, that the standby-operation turns of the pfc and therefore the chep meter only reads the peaks of current when the capacitor charges, you should look with an oscilloscope to get better readings...
Mike, what is the output stage IC under the heatsink? I would like to know how does boosting of DAC output signals. Thanks in advanced.
Some of the Agilent low-end line are (were?) rebadged Rigols
I don't know Chinese, but Japanese uses similar characters (got them from China a few hundred years ago; the language itself is completely different though). The characters on the board seem to be the colors of the corresponding wires. At least the ones for black, white and yellow are very similar to the japanese ones.
Mike, is the monitor on the right showing an IR image from a camera outside your home?
I'm not sure if somebody mention it but it looks like same power supply than for Rigol DS2072 osciloscope. So it meean they are using same design for osciloskope as for this signal generator. Even power supply is same. That is good idea also...Unfortunatly it isn't cheap generator..but you will pay for quality.
Mike, where can I get one of those shirts, its eye-catching.
What are those graphs in the monitor behind you?
version numbering with smd, good thinking.
Hah. Mike, at 18:40, you actually said streets ahead! Levar was a maybe.
what about the software ..are you going to test it ?? thanks for the nice video.
Yeah, I was aware of aircraft using 400Hz, but thought it was ~50V. Apparently it's 115V though so I guess that makes sense. Thx.
I don't read chinese really but near the white one it looked like 白 -- white and near the black ones it looks a bit like 黒 which is black in Japanese.. so maybe it's the wire colours for the people that solder the loom on. Overall all it proves that the Chinese can produce decent products.
If I remember correctly, some of the big boys rebadge Rigol gear for sale at a large markup.
I need me one of those t-shirts.
What would be the purpose of having the unit accept 400Hz power? Military spec?
Hello mike, what editing program do you use?
@1:39 what is this Ext. Lock (external lock??) thingy?
Using Google Translate will show you (English > Chinese) the symbols on the power supply PCB are actually just labels for the colors.
As such something tells me it uses good parts with Chinese labor maybe? lol
your thermal camera, is it for wildlife or security?
45-440Hz mains input. Interesting. Can you think of any reason for it?
If somebody wants to send me one, sure!
The Chinese labels on the power supply are just for wire colours. For example "红" is red.
I use spreadshirt for custom t-shirts
Never heard of Rigol in the UK.
oooh so that was the waranty void from
Airplanes run on 400Hz from memory, so that the transformers on board the plane are smaller. This is probably why.
I saw this video and thought, hmmm, looks nice. Such a waveform generator must a couple thousand euro's! So I looked it up on google, clicked first shop, 650 euro. Hmm, that's very good.. I think you only get 1-ch 10MHz from a well established brand with that money.
Maybe Rigol equipment isn't that bad after all. I saw some complaints about Rigol DS1052E having noise issues on the last batches, does anyone know those issues are legit or resolved? Seems quite interesting for the hobbyst!
This one hell of a device. Most stuff you tear apart is funny to watch because of how dodgy it is. This is surprising.
Why do they do that then? Lasering off the number? That to stop companies reverse engineering?
those Chinese markings on PCB are for wire colours.
i think that black wire next to the sense .the chinese character was definetly an ant
I suppose so :o)
Did they need a CPLD just for the buttons? Huh.
B1
I wonder if those laser-erased chip labels are actually Chinese chips
440hz power input? Sweet. You can take it on a plane. Haha
Firefighting, for finding people in smokey rooms, buildings...
4:05-4:09 What did Mike say?
They should have just used a pure metal case without the plastic outer cover.
You should register some sort of approval for manufacturers, and then sell royalties for usage:) "Approved by MikesElectricStuff"!
it looks like they recycled the casing from their oscilloscopes. at first i thought it WAS a 4 ch o'scope
What naughty things could one possibly do with a function generator?
reverse engineer it
Huh, this thing has 500ps. jitter, in comparison Agilent function gen is
Sure, if you want to pay 4-5x as much, you're going to get that much better performance.
That Brennenstuhl meter is just bad, really bad.
A Dutch consumer tv show (kassa) tested a couple of these plug-between watt meters, the Brennenstuhl is the second worst as far as I can remember.
It has a average deviation of 210,30% compared to a calibrated laboratory meter.
Why do they laser the chip numbers off? To thwart reverse engineers?
...expensive, and they are now moving to put things like hard ARM cores and so on on.
I also believe the chinese characters are corresponding colors.
Compare with this 'video' watch?v=8p1l2_UhkKE