If you are measuring components that will be used at frequencies far removed from the test frequency, the results can be terrible. 100khz is the maximum because it is the highest frequency a simple bridge can measyure accurately. Higher spec instruments like the HP 4275 multi-frequency LCR meter go up to 10 MHZ which gives accurate results for RF uses of the component. The differences in readings between the 1733 and the HP 4275 can be quite startling!
Cool. That was interesting about calibrating the leads at the end. Have you considered doing a video, or even a series of videos, on crystal radios. This would probably be highly educational, and I am sure everyone would be interested in your take on them. I am making a crystal radio now. So far it is not working. I got ripped off buying 1N34A germanium diodes on Amazon. They sold me Schottky diodes instead. I know that because while the forward voltage is about the same at 0.3v, the leakage current is around 10 nano amps instead of being about 50 micro amps. I am not sure if this is why the radio is not working, but there is one good thing about all this. I now know a lot more about diodes than I did a couple of months ago. Cheers :-)
What really clicked for me was seeing a simple cartesian X/Y chart, where you model resistance in +X, inductance +Y and capacitance in -Y. It's not perfect but helps to give you a model of how these three core properties intertwine with each other. Could you write software for any of the Lite/TinyVNAs to be half-decent LCR meters?
ideal components do not change with frequency but real world components are not perfect. a capacitor also has resistance and inductance and so will act differently at different frequencies
@@IMSAIGuy That makes sense. You had me a bit perplexed or as one of my previous coworker’s would say all Corn Fused. I have a Keysight U1733C and you made me go back and reread the manual. I enjoy all your videos.
@@timgraham8975 The lower the ESR, the better. 0.3 ohms is better than 0.9 ohms. Electrolytes often fail by going to high ESR, in other words, the series resistance has greater amount of ohms.
Long ago I bought a B&K 878B LCR meter. I decided then to save $50 and not buy the 879B. Here is the difference: L, C, R, (and Z, 879B only) primary measurements Automatic calculation of secondary parameters D, Q, Theta, ESR (Theta/ESR for 879B only). My question is, is there a way to mathematically derive Theta and ESR from the L,C, R, D and Q that the 878 measures? I do have a Blue ESR meter if I need ESR. (And it cost me more than $50!) Thanks.
Question, I’m building a project that specified a non inductive resistance of 600 ohms. Will this meter measure the inductance of a resistor? If the resistors had inductance, could I combine multiple resistors in parallel to decrease the inductance?
Just use a resistor with a small package. 0603 for example. All resistors have some inductance but the vast majority of that comes from the shape of the device. A large through hole resistor has a lot more inductance than a tiny surface mount resistor. That is definitely what the "noninductive resistor" is getting at. Use a smd component and you'll be fine, no need to try and measure it.
yes, it will measure the resistor inductance. no you can't use multiple resistors in parallel or series to cancel it. there needs to be mutual inductance. so the windings need to be on top of each other or on the same magnetic core
guards are used to shield. consider a cable with two conductors and one shield connected to the guard. it keeps any outside electrical noise from corrupting the measurement.
I've understood these measurements much better after making measurements and comparing results to what I get using nanovna. The frequency relationship to the impedance is much clearer to me. The great thing is I now have two sets of kelvin leads, the full sized clips, and the tweezers(you found at great price).
That was really great. Thank you! Makes me want to wander down stairs and play with my DER EE LCR meter that I bought 3 years ago.
I dug mine out a few days ago!
Thanks for the great video. I always learn something watching your explanations. Thanks again
I enjoyed this video, great explanation on LCR meter...
Thanks for great explanations 👍
Excellent, thank you very much for a great overview!
I have one of these at home, and use it regularly. I also have one at work, which is used often.
Very nice presentation, thank you
If you are measuring components that will be used at frequencies far removed from the test frequency, the results can be terrible. 100khz is the maximum because it is the highest frequency a simple bridge can measyure accurately. Higher spec instruments like the HP 4275 multi-frequency LCR meter go up to 10 MHZ which gives accurate results for RF uses of the component. The differences in readings between the 1733 and the HP 4275 can be quite startling!
4275 will be coming in future videos
I really enjoyed the content as I got enlightened along the way.
Thanks for posting the video.
De VU2RZA
in ABQ, NM.
Very interesting, I'm definitively bookmarking that. Thanks ! :)
Cool. That was interesting about calibrating the leads at the end. Have you considered doing a video, or even a series of videos, on crystal radios. This would probably be highly educational, and I am sure everyone would be interested in your take on them.
I am making a crystal radio now. So far it is not working. I got ripped off buying 1N34A germanium diodes on Amazon. They sold me Schottky diodes instead. I know that because while the forward voltage is about the same at 0.3v, the leakage current is around 10 nano amps instead of being about 50 micro amps. I am not sure if this is why the radio is not working, but there is one good thing about all this. I now know a lot more about diodes than I did a couple of months ago. Cheers :-)
czcams.com/video/I2M8YuM2Yew/video.htmlsi=MctQG0W_A1hyBetQ
What really clicked for me was seeing a simple cartesian X/Y chart, where you model resistance in +X, inductance +Y and capacitance in -Y. It's not perfect but helps to give you a model of how these three core properties intertwine with each other.
Could you write software for any of the Lite/TinyVNAs to be half-decent LCR meters?
VNAs are designed around 50 ohms so they do well with LCR around that value but get too far away you introduce errors.
Why does it say "OS - Factory" ? Do people install linux on it? 🙂
At 15:49 (and/or just previous talking about manual calibration), he explains this directly in the video
@@ivolol it was joke
So I don’t understand the relationship with frequency? I can see the meter allows you to change it but I don’t understand the why or when?
ideal components do not change with frequency but real world components are not perfect. a capacitor also has resistance and inductance and so will act differently at different frequencies
@@IMSAIGuy so you would need to know the frequency of the circuit that the capacitor is going into in order to know what frequency to test it at?
how do you get .3 ohms being greater than .9 ohms? Lower ESR is better right?
you are right, greater conductance.
@@IMSAIGuy That makes sense. You had me a bit perplexed or as one of my previous coworker’s would say all Corn Fused. I have a Keysight U1733C and you made me go back and reread the manual. I enjoy all your videos.
@@timgraham8975 The lower the ESR, the better. 0.3 ohms is better than 0.9 ohms. Electrolytes often fail by going to high ESR, in other words, the series resistance has greater amount of ohms.
Long ago I bought a B&K 878B LCR meter. I decided then to save $50 and not buy the 879B. Here is the difference:
L, C, R, (and Z, 879B only) primary measurements
Automatic calculation of secondary parameters D, Q, Theta, ESR (Theta/ESR for 879B only).
My question is, is there a way to mathematically derive Theta and ESR from the L,C, R, D and Q that the 878 measures?
I do have a Blue ESR meter if I need ESR. (And it cost me more than $50!)
Thanks.
tan(theta) = D
ESR = X * tan(theta)
OK. Thanks/ I thought so. Just have some Math cobwebs in my brain! (Wish I had an HP35. though !) @@IMSAIGuy
BTW Dave Jones' latest vid on a wireless ESD monitor is quite interesting. @@IMSAIGuy
Question, I’m building a project that specified a non inductive resistance of 600 ohms. Will this meter measure the inductance of a resistor? If the resistors had inductance, could I combine multiple resistors in parallel to decrease the inductance?
Just use a resistor with a small package. 0603 for example.
All resistors have some inductance but the vast majority of that comes from the shape of the device. A large through hole resistor has a lot more inductance than a tiny surface mount resistor. That is definitely what the "noninductive resistor" is getting at.
Use a smd component and you'll be fine, no need to try and measure it.
yes, it will measure the resistor inductance. no you can't use multiple resistors in parallel or series to cancel it. there needs to be mutual inductance. so the windings need to be on top of each other or on the same magnetic core
So.... Could you please explain what the guard is?
guards are used to shield. consider a cable with two conductors and one shield connected to the guard. it keeps any outside electrical noise from corrupting the measurement.
I've understood these measurements much better after making measurements and comparing results to what I get using nanovna. The frequency relationship to the impedance is much clearer to me.
The great thing is I now have two sets of kelvin leads, the full sized clips, and the tweezers(you found at great price).