How It Started
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- čas přidán 14. 01. 2024
- In episode one of this important series, we take a look at how the Protestant Reformation was started, and the lens in which it was created. We will take a look at Martin Luther and John Calvin, the founders of Protestantism, and what their motives were behind the movement. It’s incredibly important to know where something went off course because you can’t correct something if you don’t know where it’s been broken. I entitled this series “Where Our Tree Got Bent” because through years of study and observation of where the Protestant movement started and where it’s at, it’s safe to say something has gone awry.
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Former 21 year Protestant here.. converted to orthodoxy and became a catechumen in December. I asked myself all these same questions.. went through all the same things.. knew I no longer fit the Protestant paradigm. Once you truly study the early church.. the apostles.. and what they believed.. you can’t ever go back.
Amen. Amen. Amen. Once you learn the fullness of the truth, there's nothing to go back to.
I wish more Protestants valued church history and tradition. We need more of that. I think where I fall off the wagon is when this additional authority is given to the Church which I do not believe is there. They are not the replacement or continuation of apostolic authority.
You said "where I fall off the wagon is when this additional authority is given to the Church which I do not believe is there. They are not the replacement or continuation of apostolic authority."
I'm not following your reasoning. Where was the authority if not in the Apostles' successors and the church?
@@billlee2194
The authority would be with the apostles' words they left us in NT scripture.
thapack45, it makes no sense that the Apostles' words left in the NT possesses authority. The Scriptures still must be interpreted. That means there has to be an outside Jesus appointed authoritative interpreter of the word. Otherwise, it's becomes a he said/she said book. Who decides to settle disagreements? What essentials are the true essentials?
This takes a lot of courage and I have nothing but respect for you and your parish as you discover the ancient apostolic Church. Glory be to God!
Thank you!
@@ScottKlaudt People are finding clips of your video online everywhere. It is making waves. Alas the people who publish clips don't seem to post a link to this video, which is a shame, though as I am here, I found it from one video that did. You will not believe the waves it is making on Catholic CZcams.
May God bless and guide you and your church, and hopefully, if God wills it, guide you all home.
As a Calvanist that has become Orthodox, let me say that a lot of what you're saying are things I said to myself during my journey.
So many times during my journey I've said "How could I have 'known so much' and been so wrong."
Calvinist who became Latin Catholic here. Totally relate.
Because as Calvinists we were trained that our theology actually saves us not God‘s grace. It’s all a ruse.
In my case, I was just always confused shifting back and forth between once saved always saved and never saved in the first place. That was me for 70 years before I finally came home.
@@ScottKlaudtThat shows you don’t understand Calvinism then. No clavinist theologian has ever said such a thing. They teach we are saved by faith in Christ and that all who have true faith are saved.
@@matthewodonnell6495they say that but don’t believe that. That’s why they’re so fixated on theology. All you have to do is look at a John McArthur study Bible and at the beginning it says “here’s how you know if you’re saved” and then it goes on the list of a bunch of Bible passages. I was Calvinist, mentored by a Calvinist, I know exactly how this goes. I’ve always wondered why they’re not the most humble people on the planet if they actually believe it’s grace and grace alone. They should have sympathy for sinners, since God has open their eyes, or chosen them as you say.
May you return to Christs One Holy Apostolic Catholic Church.
The Orthodox faith is the faith of Christ which endures forever!
Amen, the Holy apostolic church founded by Jesus Christ 🙏 Viva Cristo Rey ! 👑
Thanks!
@@jstrugglin4404 The Church isn’t fragmented between different earthly nationalities and submits to Christs Vicar on Earth.
@@texasforever6950You literally have 24 different sui iuris Churches. The true Church submits to Christ through his Vicars, who are all the Bishops of his Church and not just one in a single city.
Praying you and your church continue your journey home. Come home to the Catholic Church. We love you and welcome you!! ❤️🙏🏻
He has confirmed he is working with Fr. Andrew Jarmus of the E. Orthodox church
Thank you! We Catholics don’t worship Mary or the saints. Praying for you and everyone else to covert and come into the true Catholic Church
All of us Catholics are watching clips from this go viral! We are all praying for you and hoping to see you and your Church return home to Christ's Holy Apostolic Church. God bless you my brother 🙏🏼
Amen 🙏
It takes tremendous courage for you to do what you are doing. As a Catholic I very much hope that you "come home to Rome", but if you end up in Eastern Orthodoxy, your soul will still be greatly improved by being in a church of valid sacraments and orders.
Since we all seem to be fighting for you now, I'll make our case by quoting St. Jerome's words when he found himself in a similar situation to yours in the 4th century:
_"The church here is split into three parts, each eager to seize me for its own. . . . Meanwhile I keep crying, ‘He that is joined to the chair of Peter is accepted by me!'"_
-St Jerome, 396 AD
Rome is Apostate
Seeing that you used the timeline from Becoming Orthodox by Fr. Peter Gilquist. This book was the veil taken off of my eyes
I am blown away by your honesty. God is truly working in your life. Continue to be honest. Being Protestant or Catholic should not be the aim of our lives, but seeking Christ, seeking God
The Catholic Church actually teaches this but, if one's theology allows them to continue practicing din believing they are saved by a one time decision, I thinks it's safer to come home to the Catholic church. You have 24 churches to choose from so you dont have to go for the Roman Rite. There are 23 Eastern Catholic churches, all in union with the Bishop of Rome. God bless.
First Francis Chan's sermon in the alley, now this pastor and his message. You made my year already. I too have returned to the Catholic church. Thank you for your boldness. May God bless and protect you.
Ave Maria - the Ark and Mother of the New Covanent, Jesus Christ.
This is awesome. Your video is going around in a lot of Eastern orthodox circles right now. We have quite a few parishes in Montana. And we have a annual conference called Montanika every year for Orthodox. Fr. Dcn. Doctor Ananias is out in Butte Montana I believe.
Father Russ in Butte is awesome
May God bless you for your courage in speaking out about this. I pray God brings you, and many others through you, home to the One, Holy, Catholic, & Apostolic Church.
Thanks!
So far this has been a great sermon. Praying for your congregation and yourself. I finished the sermon and that was a lot for me to take in and im Orthodox myself. I can only imagine what all of you are experiencing right now as a church but it looks like you as a church are taking the right path. In my youth I mostly attended a evangelical church and there was truth there but not the fullness of the truth. Godbless.
Read Dr. Scott Hahn
Rome Sweet Home
I pray that you may come home to the Church!!
A step in the right direction is - a step in the right direction. My favorite apostolic father is Ignatius of Antioch, who was a disciple of John the Apostle with Polycarp of Smyrna. Ignatius’ seven letters, which he wrote while in custody on the way to his martyrdom, are a must read for any Christian; along with the Didache. Peace
I noticed the Orthodox cross on the back wall and heard the pastor mention Fr. Jarmus. Is he referring to Fr. Andrew Jarmus of St. Nicholas Church in Ft. Wayne, Indiana?
Hello! Yes, that is correct!
Awesome.
This pretty much summarizes most of our Protestant-to-Catholic conversions in a nice tidy hour 😂
Thank you for your courage.
100% 🙏
Praying for you and your folks journey. As a former Protestant (charismatic --> calvinist), I'm home and started the journey in 2015, and was baptized in Feb 2020 c: Glory to God, and I pray that your Church finds its way to Holy Orthodoxy when He wills!
Amen! Jesus defeated death by death!
Keep going....Orthodox Christianity is an action, not an object of learning to obtain....Evagrius of Pontus’ famous saying: “The one who prays is a theologian; the one who is a theologian, prays.” This means that the one who prays is a theologian in the deepest and most fundamental sense of the word. Prayer, even the desire for prayer, is always a movement, drawing us to God; it is the mysterious action of the Holy Spirit in the human heart. May God bless you on your journey. ☦️
And death was a judgment from God for our sin.
God bless you. As someone who came home to the one, true Church in the last year I just want you to know you're on the right path. The sacraments are real, they were instituted by Christ and we do receive grace from them. This is what courage looks like.
Pastor, you are incredibly brave. You’re also right to do what you are doing. It’s time we all abandoned churches made by men and join ourselves to the church made by Christ our God.
your misread the Council of Trent. It is not faith alone, it's not work alone. It's BOTH faith and works! You can't seperate them.
right on, nonetheless, God is still using this protestant pastor to preach His (God's) true will and true Church, so lets pray for him and pray for each other. God bless
So you are affirming Luther's concerns and showing why Luther could not have reconciled thus undermining a crucial point in this sermon and this pastor's claims.
Came to catholicism from agnosticsm. If it wasn't for the intellectual tradition of the fathers, the office of the pope, and the magestirium, I would have never came to Christianity. Those offices used the Word and God-given logic to answer hard questions.
Pastor, I am not trying to convert you. You're a "better" Christian than most I know. You are doing God's work. I do hope you "come home" someday but I know CS Lewis never did and he is still my favorite modern Christian thinker.
You should do a live show with Fr. Mike Smitt or Dr. Scott Hahn.
Incredible stuff man, may God have mercy on us!
Thanks!
A good read is: The Foundation of Augustinian-Calvanism by Ken Wilson. See where Calvin got his info.
I want to say this in charity but you should not take communion if you are not confirmed Catholic but please continue on researching. Peace be with you.
Agreed
Yes! The priest is doing wrong for offering. Now those that watch this will be misinformed and upset when they are denied.
Catholic doctrine states if a person comes forward in good faith they can’t be turned away. 👍🏻
Regretfully agreeing.... giving communion was a kind thought, but I think it's better to face the sad reality that the way things stand at the moment, we are not in communion with one another in the deepest and fullest sense, even though we may have very open, kind and honest conversations. Taking communion like this is rather like "papering over the cracks". When I occasionally visit a Catholic mass, I go to the front when the folk are going up for communion but with my arms folded over my chest, which indicates that I'd like a blessing rather than receiving the Eucharist.
That's really sad that he's given the communion. I have been waiting for more than a year now and cross my arms in front of the priest desperately waiting for Easter vigil this year when I'll be in full communion with the church.
I don't understand why priest is giving him the communion when he's not in communion with the Catholic church
I'm awestruck by your sincerity and bravery in sacrificing so much to get closer to God. መድኃኔዓለም ይርዳህ
Praying for you! 🙏
Pastor - In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy spirit, Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, Have Mercy on us and save us. Lord, if it is your will, I pray that your grace and spirit will continue to descend and move the leaders and the followers at zootown church in Montana, for whom I humbly pray and commend to thy gracious care and protection. Be though oh God their guide and guardian in all their endeavors. Lead them in the path of Thy Truth, and draw them nearer to the that they may lead a Godly and righteous life ever in thy love and fear; doing thy will in all things. Give them grace that they may be industrious, devout and charitable. Defend them against the assaults of the enemy, and grant them wisdom and strength to resist all temptation and corruption of this life; and direct them in the way of salvation, through the grace and love of thy Son, our Saviour Jesus Christ, and the intercessions of the most holy Theotokos and thy blessed saints. Amen.
Amen
Praying for you. This takes a lot of guts and Gods wisdom will lead you. We left the Roman Catholic Church and found the Orthodox Church- we are home❤️☦️🙏🏼
You were always home, you could have gone Byzantine Catholic and maintained the traditional unity
There is nothing traditional about the modern papacy
@@4963AMwhich church are you in may I know
God bless you sir!
Deo Gracias. Keep learning & praying. The Catholic Church is the Church Christ established. The "eastern orthodox" Churches are in schism, but have valid orders and sacraments however they are illicit.
We are not in schism but your Pope accepts multiple creeds which include literal Christological heresies. This proves faith is not the motivation of the Pope but worldly power.
When I was young and growing up, the Catholic Church was "The Great Whore of Babylon". Since I became Eastern Orthodox (from the Baptist Church) two and a half years ago, I see Catholics as "separated brethren" - Brethren, yes.... but, sad to say, separated.... But at least I have a new found respect and affection for Catholic folk now which I didn't have previously, but based mainly on misconceptions and wrong information.
Amen brother
about 47:00 you bring up the atonement. May i suggest the Shameless Popery podcast episode on the Cathploc view og the atonement film a couple months back? It has a much more positive view than Calvin's.
Fantastic! May the Good Lord bless you and continue to use you! Preach it brother!
Oh my word! Great preaching. Finally!!!!! We confirm to Him. He does not conform to us.
I can feel the raw emotion and appreciate your candidness. It takes a lot of courage to admit one is wrong, never mind to admit it in front of everyone you know. Kudos to you and may the Lord guide you down the path of truth.
I would like to encourage you to reach out to an Eastern Catholic mission in Missoula. You mentioned you're being mentored by two Orthodox priests and one Catholic (I assume Roman Catholic) priest; I figured adding an Eastern Catholic priest would balance the mix. My concern here is that the Orthodox p.o.v. seems to have influenced your view of St. Augustine, but his theology was not rejected by the pre-schism Church (not even the filioque). He may have become gnostic for a while, but he returned into full communion with the Church and became a bishop of Hippo. He is just as important a Church Father as any of the Greek, Syriac, or Coptic Fathers. As you discern your path forward, please keep in mind that the Church was not Greek-centric or Latin-centric; it was universal.
Uniates prove Orthodoxy. The Pope did this deceitful move to steal Orthodox Christians away from the one true faith and accept everything they believe as long as they accept the Pope. It is only a few hundred centuries old, back to the Council of Brest. You venerate St. Gregory Palamas which alone refutes Uniatism.
Praying for you Pastor as you seek Truth and share it with others.
Great sermon!!!
Praying for You to Embrace The Fulness of Truth, That Is One True Holy Catholic and Apostolic Faith
This is glorious ☦️
This is incredibly brave. May the Holy Trinity continue to protect & guide you as you seek more of God's will.
One thing that helps me is to recognize that it isn’t church that is bad, it is individual humans who sin that cause problems within a church. When someone hurts others we often find it easy to blame the structures in place that we feel allowed things to happen instead of recognizing that sin is a reality.
As a Catholic, we have had to reckon with this for hundreds of years. Scandals will always be present, it is how you move forward as a believer in Christ that matters. Staying true to the faith and not going astray on your own.
It is currently Lent and we are asked now to fast, pray, do works of charity and give alms. These are the ways of Christ, not progressive or liberal politics. When things start to go off, coming back to these practices and our relationship with Christ centers us back to what is most important.
I love what you said about church not being a ted talk. It’s a place to worship God. Praying for you and your community! ❤
Give Scott Hahn a call.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of GOD, have mercy on us.
As an evangelical I appreciate the sincerity and courage of this pastor. It takes resolve to stand up like this and say things which could result in your own church members dismissing you your post. While I commend that, I still would like to offer thoughts about some of the things he stated which do not seem to add up or which should be questioned and further considered and discussed. I will try to be concise but seeing as how I watched this for an hour think it is only fair that there is some length to this answer and some of his claims.
The overall concern that I have is that most of what he said is a very Catholic-slanted view of history. What I mean by that is not necessarily that he is lying or misrepresenting everything, but that he is highlighting things that look far more favorable to the Catholic Church and which cast a negative light on Protestants. And while I appreciated the grace he had toward Protestants, he seemed to intentionally avoid any historical, scriptural or logical information which would give his hearers any kind of due consideration for their position. Now, moving on to more specific points he made.
I'm not sure why he thinks it is so relevant that Luther and Calvin were trained lawyers. It is not like being a lawyer summed up the full extent of how they understood the world and the gospel. As with most men, there were able to look outside this narrow avenue and didn't necessarily use it as some kind of exclusive filter through which they understood everything. Besides this, Paul the apostle was a Pharisee, which means he was highly trained in the Law of God and this is what gave him such an advantage as God leveraged his talents for the Kingdom.
He gave a lot of alarming quotes from Luther about the Jews as if these invalidated everything Luther believed. Look, these quotes were probably shocking to a fair number of people who heard them but that actually demonstrates why we should not be so concerned. These teachings from Luther are what has not been passed on or inherited by evangelicals. One is hard-pressed to find a larger group of supporters of Jews or Israel than evangelical Christians. Negative comments on a single subject do not translate to an invalidation of the entirety of Luther's points or his movement. I wonder how many priests, bishops or even popes have made alarming comments about any given subject which people would find unfavorable..yet he has not searched for them or highlighted them here. Neither would he accept the argument that people ought to break away from the Catholic Church simply because of such comments from individuals. He would likely encourage people to disregard only those specific opinions as a reflection of how everyone is still a product of their own time period and invariably has a lens by which he sees the world; and that is totally reasonable. It's just inconsistent with what he's doing here.
I haven't seen any evidence that Luther claimed to somehow be infallible or unquestionable. On the contrary, both he and Calvin would have stated that they were subject to the authority of scripture. I don't see a lot of evidence that they wanted to "be the new pope." Perhaps they developed an over-inflated sense of self-importance, sure, but it seems a stretch to claim they were mad dog cult leaders. For a fair listen and scholarly analysis of what they believed about what they were accomplishing I would recommend the book, "The Reformation as Renewal" by Dr. Matthew Barrett. As for putting people to death for disagreeing with their theology, that was fairly standard in a time period when church and state were so much in step together. The Catholic Church did the same thing on numerous occasions and there is debate about how much Calvin actually took part in some of this with people disagreeing over the historical accounts.
I understand that it is weird to make the gospel about people’s sex lives or to pretend that it is the only sin that people are committing to the point that we ignore other sins such as excessive greed and neglect for orphans etc. However, one thing to note is that pride, greed and sexual licentiousness tend to be lumped together and any of them are usually sure signs of the others. Sodom and Gomorrah were said to be prideful and rich, but also grossly immoral sexually. What has gone on in society with regard to normalizing grotesque sexual behavior is a very big deal and the truth is that the church is not who made it that way. We have been in a defensive spot on this for almost two decades. It is not us (generally) but a dying world that has obsessed over sex and demanded that everyone adjust their lives, careers, conversations and even their private thoughts and religious convictions to line up with their hostile demands.
I continue to see this fallacy that since there has been some form of continuity of the Catholic/Orthodox Churches since the inception of Christianity that this necessarily means one of them (or both somehow, which is not logically possible) is the true and authoritative church. I understand that this position and the Protestant one both stand on presuppositions about how this all works but the fact of the matter is that the Catholic/EO churches now practice and do things which were not practiced by the early church. This is incontrovertible. It is difficult to understand any argument which says that we should now do something different than what was done by those early Christians or to make anything else normative in worship which was not modeled as such by them. This includes things such as praying to dead saints, use of icons etc. Perhaps one would conclude these things are permissible at best, but to state they are binding or necessarily blessed parts of Christian living or liturgy is to equate later church tradition with scriptural precedent. Other than a large number of people in the church just insisting that this is the case there really is no case for doing this. In the days of Moses the opinion of the tribal leaders in Israel would not be on par with the Torah itself and the opinion of bishops 200 years after Christ is not on par with the Gospel or epistles. This brings me to the following point below.
Catholics may or may not worship Mary depending on the individual Catholic. According to official Catholic doctrine it is my understanding that they officially claim not to. However, instead of splitting hairs about the label of what it is that they do and how they honor her it is easiest and most concise to just say this; the Catholic Church has unscriptural views of Mary which lack historical grounding and violate theological truth. Whether they want to accept the term “worship” or not, their stance toward her is that they esteem her too highly. To be fair I will say I believe that Protestants have swung the pendulum too far the other way, almost never mentioning her except at Christmas time. Mary should be remembered through all generations as scripture says. And she is very special. Perhaps the most special woman to have ever lived. But later tradition has made a functional idol out of her in a very unhealthy way. I have seen, firsthand, the negative consequences of this as certain cultures have latched onto Mary to the virtual exclusion of Christ. In South America some groups of people formerly had a strong connection to a mother goddess which they turned to for all things. In Catholicism they saw a replacement of this mother goddess in Mary and have made many hundreds of variants of her. They treasure virginity in literally a superstitious manner, and exalt the many versions and names of Mary to the point of having a thousand goddesses. I don’t believe most American Catholics would be comfortable seeing how they practice their devotion to her; because it is just thinly veiled statue worship and animism. Why would anyone turn to Mary instead of Jesus when Peter, Paul, etc never did? I can’t understand it. Elevating the opinion of the majority of early church leaders who came after the apostles this much is dangerous and adds unscriptural beliefs and requirements to Christianity.
The idea that “God speaks through His church” is a common misnomer. The truth is that “the church” was rarely involved as what it actually was in most instances was several dozen or at most a couple hundred church leaders. These representatives acted on behalf of the whole church across the entire ancient world and then people claimed that “the church” had come to a certain point of view. These men, who were not apostles, added on practices and theological requirements which became dogmas of the church proper. It is a tough sell to make someone who is analyzing this agree that something these guys believed in the year 220 or 470 is necessarily binding. They may have been correct and scriptural most of the time (I believe they were) but the Catholic view of their authority is one notch too high. There is no authority on the level of Christ or his apostles and churches are always subject to being corrected for wrong theology. I cannot understand the belief that bishops in the 200s had an authority on equal footing with the 12 apostles. Maybe someone can explain it to me. If they can’t pen new scripture then they don’t carry the same level of authority.
Are saints in Heaven dead? Jesus says he is the God of the living.
Thapack, though I don't agree with some of what you said, I think you were cordial and thoughtful in what you said and I commend you for that.
Concerning your statement followed by a question ie..."There is no authority on the level of Christ or his apostles and churches are always subject to being corrected for wrong theology. I cannot understand the belief that bishops in the 200s had an authority on equal footing with the 12 apostles. Maybe someone can explain it to me."
The best I can explain it and the reason I accept the reality and need for an authoritative church passed on from the Apostles is based on two things:
1) Everything Jesus and the Apostles passed on (for protestants that would be contained in the 66 books of the Bible) still must be interpreted. You and I both could list examples: does baptism save?, Can salvation be lost, what essentials of the faith are essential?, Who decides if there is disagreement?
2) Paul gives a clear example of his authority being passed on to and through Timothy when he told Timothy (paraphrased) 'the reason I (1st. generation) left you (2nd. generation) in Crete was so you could appoint other men (3rd. generation) who can teach others (4th. generation). Even if we disagree on the # of generstions, it still makes the point that Paul knew that his teachings would have to be entrusted to future generations. All subsequent generations in the church still have to interpret what was passed on to them either by word of mouth or by letter. I have no problem with doctrine development which has been the case for both the original Church as well as Protestantism since the 16th c. I could cite more but 3 church teachings that I see in Scripture that have been preserved till today in the Catholic church is Baptismal Regeneration, Real presence in the Eucharist and church hierarchical church government to maintain unity.
God bless
@@billlee2194
Of course those teachings of the NT must still be interpreted. And I will grant that an attempted interpretation which is ignorant of what the original followers thought and believed about them and attempts to attribute some new meaning to them is misguided and can lead to deviant groups with wild-eyed theology. An careful or sincere reader would have to understand that the meaning of the text isn't going to be discovered now as opposed to what the earliest believers understood. That is to say, the early believers would have known what it meant. Now, that doesn't mean all of them knew what it meant or that none of them ever made any errors; it just means the right way of looking at it would be somewhere among them. But there is simply nothing that states that a council will always be correct anymore than there was any reason to think a majority of authoritative rabbis would have always been correct about the Mosaic Law. It might have been safe to say that innovative and completely foreign ideas from theirs would not been where truth would have been found but they were not infallible and God did not promise their opinions to always be so.
I understand what you are trying to say with Paul and of course all Christians believe that some necessary and core truths must be passed down from generation to generation. That in an of itself just cannot seem to be stretched to be seen as a defense for as robust a belief as you have for the level of authority you're stating you have in the Orthodox (or Catholic) Church.
(I think you may have said more and I have previews of other comments but don't see them here for some reason? Sorry, I can't make a full reply without seeing everything.)
Thank you for your sincerity. God bless you as well in Christ.
@@thapack45 Thanks for responding. We all have to come to our own conclusions. For me (not forgetting my Road to Damascus encounter with God on January 8, 2018, which made the scales fall from my blind eyes for the first time in 70 years), after coming to the dead end road I was on and knowing there were countless Christians denominations I had to chose from, I asked God to show me the right one. I had the thought to research what the original church was. Even the most basic search only turned up the Catholic Church. I was able to trace it's documents back to circa 50-70 AD beginning with the Didache. I continued from there with 1 Clement (80 AD), The Epistle of Barnabas, Ignatius of Antioch (107 AD), the Papias Fragments (early 2nd C.), Justin Martyr (150 AD) and Irenaeus of Lyon (180 AD). Funny thing. I chose to stop, so to speak, at Irenaeus simply because he is the last documented person to know someone who knew the Apostle John. I noticed the one thing they all had in common. They were all 100% Catholic Church either in teachings or name or both. I have come to a place where I use these early church writings as my commentary on Scripture. So, when they say that the Eucharist is the same body and blood that was crucified for our sake; that 'born again' means Baptism, when they say Baptism is regenerative and that infants are to be baptized, that salvation can be lost, that nothing is to be done or considered proper worship w/o the Bishop and that the Bishop is to be honored as those he were Christ on earth, etc., I, for my own purposes, can go no further in seeking clarification of what Scripture has to say.
Now, having said that, I realize and the church teaches that God is able to save anyone who is sincerely seeking God even though they don't have access to the Sacraments Christ left His Apostles and church. I can think of Protestants I've know who get more mileage out of their 2 sacraments/ordinances that I will probably ever get out of the 7 Sacraments the ancient churches embrace.
You know, that brings another point to mind. All the ancient churches, both east and west, Catholic and Orthodox, all believe and practice most of the same things including the Sacrifice of the Mass or Liturgy or Mystery, priestly confession and hierarchical polity in church government. They also all wear funny clothes :). They all use incense during worship (see Malachi 1:11 concerning a pure offering [Jesus Christ] and incense). You know, we even have records listing all the bishops and patriarch of some of these ancient churches. I know, for a certain that we have the list on the bishops in Rome from Peter through Francis and in Jerusalem as well. I once thought that the bishops in Jerusalem stopped around 431 AD (??) but, on closer examination, I found that what had occurred is that, after that year, the name was changed from bishop to patriarch in the East and that list continued from there and I'm assuming it goes through till today but I would have to check.
As far as Councils making mistakes, I see that as a two edged sword. On one hand, men can make mistakes but, for me, certain things have to be assumed on faith. For example, if the Councils are not to be considered reliable, that begs the question as to whether the Biblical canon itself is reliable. What if those Catholic bishops allowed some books that should not be there (like the disputed books of James, 2nd & 3rd John, Hebrews and Revelation if I have them all) and what is they left some out that should be there (like the book of Enoch [which is in the Ethiopian Orthodox Bible], The Shepard of Hermas, 1 Clement, The Didache just to mention a few). If we cannot trust that the Holy Spirit led those Councils correctly [Councils of Rome in 382, Hippo in 393, Carthage in 397 and Trent in 1546], how can we be certain the basis for Protestantism (Scripture) is even valid?
In conclusion, I know that God is working in many hearts and souls around the world and through generations to bring people to salvation. I believe there will be many Protestants who make it and many Catholics who won't. The bottom line, for me, is I believe the Catholic Church to be the very church Jesus built and left us and that's the church that contains the 'fullness' of the faith that can be easily traced back to the Apostles through the writings we have from the beginning. For me, if the Catholic church cannot be trusted, there is no hope for any of us. After all, they gave us the very Bible that we are trust to be correct. God had to have had a reasonable plan in mind and not a free-for-all with interpretations.
One more point. For me, it had to be the Catholic Church. I was raised Baptist and we believed OSAS with no loss of salvation possible. That always left me confused and did nothing to solve my problem. I was still a broken and wounded man inside. I can tell you that the graces of God including the Sacraments of Confession and the Eucharist have healed the addictions and wounds of sin that had me down for 70 + years. Now, there are many Protestants who might achieve the same outcome but I now know that I needed the full treatment, the ICU Church that addressed all that was wrong with me. The Catholic Church was the first church to even tell me I needed to actually stop practicing sin. IN my OSAS faith, it was not a topic of conversation. We were simply told Jesus paid it all and we were going to heaven. It just never set right with me. I know not all Protestants teach this but this is the understanding I came away with in my church with as nice , sincere and loving as those folks were. God bless.
Orthodox and Catholics waiting with baited breath to see which direction this goes
Very good
Catholic priests can be married in the Eastern, ordinariate, marionite rites, etc.
I have some questions (I'm a devout traditional Catholic, tuned in out of curiosity, after seeing a preview commentary on this sermon). Definitely some fascinating and wonderful things said here!
Wow, these Martin Luther quotes! 😳 I knew he had some shady sketchy qualities but dang!
Follow up - I understand there's a process of conversion, but this gentleman is preaching in a non Catholic Church, but receiving the Eucharist in a local Catholic Church? I hope he understands, knows and believes and has professed that the Eucharist isn't just symbolic in the Catholic Faith and tradition!
Sad that there aren't follow up questions about Luther and disciples taking nuns for wives, that feels gross.
17:51 does anyone have a link or names and authors of the books he mentioned here?
Seconded. I would really want to see sources with these large claims.
(1) "Living Faith" by Lawrence Farley
(2) "Reformation Myths" by Rodney Stark
@@PeteWalde thank you, kind sir!
Great video. I wish you well on your journey back home. I will make two observations. The first one has to do with your reference to the ongoing Reformation effort you’re undertaking. It is this: words are important. Reformation is what got us into this mess in the first place, so it has negative connotations. It seems to me that Restoration better describes the task you’ve undertaken. You’re trying to restore your church and align it back with the early church. Just an observation.
My second point is in a separate post.
Hello. I'm a former calvinist and have now been Orthodox for almost 4 years now. Best choice I ever made. I wanted to say though that I think you mean well and are going down the right path but I think you may have some misunderstandings about Orthodoxy and the early Church. For one thing, we would never give a practicing homosexual communion and to do so would be incredibly malicious toward them. Also, it is not true that the early Church never excommunicated people. In Orthodoxy, you may hold heretical beliefs but you will not be excommunicated unless you try to form your own sect within the Church or without Her. All in all, you are on the right track. Keep seeking the Truth!
You seemed to imply that Celibacy had a big part to play in the recent sexual scandals in the Catholic Church. Well, that is a fallacy, because it is known that the percentage of Catholic priests that are sexual predators, is about the same as in other Christian denominations, including mainline Protestant and Orthodox Churches. So, it’s obvious that celibacy makes no difference, in general terms, to the inclination to abuse. Teachers, for example, have a higher percentage of sexual abusers than religious organizations - and teachers aren’t generally celibate, last time I looked.
There is another important fact for the requirement of celibacy for Catholic priests, and that is that the Church requires them to be “soldiers” for the Lord. Throughout the last two millennia, catholic priests and nuns have been sent everywhere, anywhere, anytime, at short notice, into very tough situations sometimes - something that couldn’t be done if they had wives and children to be responsible for. In your talk, you rightly referred to the billions of Christians outside the USA. How do you think Christianity spread to the entire world? It was done mostly by celibate priests, who dedicated their lives to spreading the Good News.
Think about this: do you think that it is an accident that, most Christian denominations that allow their priests and pastors to marry have all become National Churches? The Greek Orthodox, the Russian Orthodox, the Church of England, etc.? Do you think that Christ intended that His Church was divided by nationalisms? No. There is only one Apostolic Church that is truly universal on earth, and that is the Catholic Church. That would never have been possible without the service of countless men and women who, throughout the ages, dedicated their lives entirely to spreading God’s word.
Celibacy is a good thing, but it isn’t for all. It is a calling.
Anglicans aren't Orthodox and so-called national churches are there for administration. The Orthodox Church allows for multiple cultures, not just Roman. One can be a Greek in the Russian church or a Romanian in the Serbian church. It makes no difference as we all have the same faith.
@@ElonMuskrat-my8jy I agree that Anglicans aren’t Orthodox. I wasn’t trying to say that. They’re Protestant and they’re an English church - its head is the King of England. It is not correct to call Catholics “Roman Orthodox”. Orthodox is a term usually associated with the Eastern Apostolic Churches - all of which are national churches (even though they might have some foreign nationals in them). The Catholic Church is also Apostolic and it’s true that it’s based in Rome (it had to be somewhere) but it is truly universal in nature. It is also not correct to say “Roman Catholic” (as if there were other types of Catholics) - Catholics are just Catholics.
@@ricorodi7085 They're Roman Catholic because their head is the Pope of Rome. Your semantics are unimportant.
@@ElonMuskrat-my8jy Sure, that’s correct, but no one outside the English speaking world uses that term. It’s an English thing because they wanted to call themselves Anglo-Catholics … but it didn’t work. Semantics ARE important. There are no other types of Catholics, so no other distinction is necessary.
@@ricorodi7085 We Eastern Orthodox call ourselves the Eastern Orthodox Catholic Church. The truth is Rome doesn't have the faith or the ecclesiology of the first millennium. The Papacy admits in their official Vatican documents of Chieti and Alexandria that the first millennium had a conciliar ecclesiology, not a Papal monarchy.
This is wild !!!!
You need to contact Keith Nester. He would be a great person to mentor with. You remind me of Keith. Full of zeal.
I will leave you with a quote from Ignatius of Antioch who was a disciple of John and ordained by Peter:
"Wherever the bishop shall appear, there, let the multitude of the people also be; even as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. (Letter to the Smyrnaeans, Chapter 8. Written in 107 AD).
Nope. Jesus isn't the church. He saved the church and is the head of her. Conflating these things together has led to people historically equating the decisions of bishops as being the teachings of "the church" when the entire church was not really involved.
@@thapack45The Orthodox Church is the Body of Christ while Christ is the Head. Can you separate the Head from the Body? No. So they are One just like the Apostle Paul said about marriage. The Church and Christ are one.
@@ElonMuskrat-my8jy
I agree with the exception of the word "Orthodox" being used instead of just the Church.
Yet I don't understand how this is relevant to the OP or my objection.
@@thapack45 The Orthodox Church is the Incarnation of Christ in every generation since Pentecost 30 AD. History and our saints prove it. The Ecumenical Councils which clarified dogmas in responses to heresies of the times they were held were approved by bishops of the entire Church. The original quote by St. Ignatius shows the unity of Christ and the Church and the authority of the bishop to represent Christ to the Church and rule the Church in his jurisdiction.
@@ElonMuskrat-my8jy
Ok that is your stance. There are a lot of assertions there but they are ultimately circular and will not be convincing to anyone not already buying into a lot of the claims you are assuming.
Good take on things. The Gnostic aspects in Protestantism come from the Cathars having been forced into Catholicism. It basically made a hybrid religion, a sort of semi-Gnosticism. They claim to follow Augustine, but they already believed everything they believed, they just used his erroneous semi-Gnostic writings to support their doctrines.
You are on your way back to the ancient church brother! Though I would rather see you end up in the original church that still maintains the unity Jesus called for under the steward He chose to feed His sheep until His return, you will still have a close connection in one of the Orthodox Churches should you choose to go with one of them. Their only drawback I see is, just like Protestants, they still lack a final earthly authority to settle disputes. If you're not aware, you can also go to one of the Eastern Catholic Churches that offer the Eastern Churches' rich spiritualism and have maintained unity with the steward Jesus left to feed His sheep. Between the Western and Eastern churches all in unity with the Pope, you will be able to have a final earthly authority in Rome. You may have a schism like occurred in 1054 but no more church splits and no more personality pastors. It's all about Jesus, United with the Father and Holy Spirit. Praise God!
Can someone please reply to my comment with the name and author of the second book he recommended?
God bless you man. Please speak to more Catholic priests on what you have difficulties grasping and definitely take it to prayer. Eastern Orthodoxy can be enticing to Protestants since the authority structure has similarities, but we cannot let our biases compromise our pursuit of Jesus.
Based
The authority structure in the Orthodox Church is identical to the first millennium Church.
@@TyrannicalReignerThe Chieti and Alexandria documents from the Vatican confirm this.
@pintswithaquinas needs to interview
or Scott Hahn.
Just out of curiosity, why start with the Protestant Reformation? What about the schism between the East and West?
I’d love to have you on my channel pastor. Holy Smokes: Cigars, Catholicism, and Conversation:)
Ok 👍🏻
@@ScottKlaudt how can i get in touch with you brother?
I’ve said many times that when atheists criticize Christianity they’re really just criticizing Calvinism.
Praise be to you Lord Jesus Christ. Continue to seek the truth, I pray everyone comes home to the Church our lord established. Sirach 4:28
One, Holy, Catholic (Universal) and Apostolic Church is one full of sinners that need the grace and mercy of Jesus unified and protected in her Sacraments. The seven sacraments of the Church: Baptism, Reconciliation (Confession), Holy Communion (Eucharist), Confirmation, Announting of the Sick, Matrimony, Holy Orders (Priesthood).
Pastor Klaudt, Thank you for questioning some of the assumptions. Yes, the Early Church Fathers show the practice and teachings of Christianity before there was any bible to revere: Christ built "My Church", He did not write "My book." A few things: first, regarding the descent into "hell." From the earliest times Christianity has understood what we translate as "He descended into hell" as Christ's descent into Sheol/Hades, i.e., the "abode of the dead." The Jews affectionately referred to the abode of the righteous dead as “Abraham’s bosom.” This is Holy Saturday. “It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior in Abraham’s bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell” (Catechism of the Catholic Church ---633). So God did not go among the devils, and He did not deliver the damned. He went to the faithful dead. Not sure what you meant when you referred to this, actually.
As to faith/works, there is a very careful, nuanced and sophisticatel sense in which Catholics can conditionally agree to "salvation is by faith alone." It is not a Catholic way of approaching the tension. We note that the idea that man can be saved by intellectual belief alone is dogmatically condemned by The Council of Trent. In Galatians Paul teaches that through good works, or continuing to “sow to the Spirit,” we will be rewarded with eternal life, but only if we persevere. We have here the Catholic both/and: we are saved by grace in faith through love, and love means living as we believe, doing the will of the Father--co-operating with His Grace in which we believe.
The graph is obviously prepared by the Orthodox. I've seen graphs where Luther is the main trunk, so silly. The Christianity tree I am familiar with shows the Catholic (not "Roman") Church as the main line, with the Orthodox as the departure. And it is the Catholic line which is more than a billion members. The Orthodox Churches appear a refuge for those who see that Protestantism is false but who will not look straight at Catholicism, and think the Orthodox, in a thousand-year-old schism, are the compromise: Catholic but not. The Orthodox have the valid priesthood and therefore the sacraments, but no unity, no magesterium, and no head: there is a reason they have never succeeded in convening for a doctrinal counsel. "And upon this kepha I will build My Church," is what Christ declared over the man he renamed Kepha. You can't jettison the office of Kepha and be in that Church.
I enjoyed your talk and was grateful for your disabusing people of some (really ignorant) urban myths about Catholicism. Thank you.
I wish the Holy Spirit to descend up you, renewing you in His insight and wisdom.
I can recommend the Catechism of the Catholic Church (free and searchable online). It's 2000 uninterrupted years of theology, so it's worth consulting on the grounds of historicity and clarity at the very least. I also recommend, whenever you search on a theological or philosophical topic, that you try appending the phrase "catholic answers"": such a search will immediately open to you the most apt, orthodox, succint and clear Catholic viewpoints on the matter. Blessings.
This was beautiful, very well written. Thank you for the time and effort to write it down!
Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam †
Scott claims the Roman Catholic Church believed and still believes exactly what Luther believed about salvation - that it is by grace alone, through faith alone but our works prove our salvation. This claim is false. Rome and Luther did NOT have the same view on justification and the role of good works in salvation. Council of Trent, session 6, canon 24 says this:
CANON XXIV.-If any one saith, that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema.
yes.
Come home brother!
Truth is one
“...And here are St. John Chrysostom’s words against those who without discrimination attach themselves to people who fall away from the Church.:
"If those persons have dogmas contrary to ours, then on that account one should not have intercourse with them; if, on the other hand, they hold the same opinions, the reason (for avoiding them) is greater still. Why so? Because this is the disease of lust for authority. Do you not know what happened to Kore, Dathan, and Abiram? Were they the only ones to suffer? Did not also their accomplices? What wilt thou say? ‘Their faith is the same, they are Orthodox as well.' If so, why are they not with us? There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism. If they are right, then we are wrong; if we are right, then they are wrong. Tell me, do you think this is enough that they are called Orthodox, while with them the charism of ordination has grown scarce and done away with? What is the advantage of all things else, if this latter is not observed? As we must contend for the faith, so must we for this also. For if it is lawful for any one, according to the saying of old, to fill his hands, to be a priest, let all approach to minister; in vain has this altar been raised, in vain the Church order, in vain the assembly of the priests: let us overthrow and annihilate all this.”
In his first canonical epistle to Amphilochius, Bishop of Iconium, St. Basil the Great adduces the opinion of the "ancients” concerning those who had fallen away from the Church. “Although the separation had been initiated through schism, those who had separated themselves from the Church no longer had the grace of the Holy Spirit in them, its communication having failed because of the breaking of the lawful continuity.”
We shall discuss these and subsequent words of St. Basil later on in greater detail. For the time being, I merely wish to note that St. Basil did not by any means reject the idea of the ancients concerning the complete absence of grace in all those who had separated themselves from the Church, including even the schismatics.
It seems to me that these patristic statements reveal enough of the attitude of the ancient Church, although testimonies similar to those cited could easily be multiplied. The ancient Church did not consider dogmatic agreement to be the only condition for belonging to her. Separation from the Church on account of rebellion and schism was also considered a departure from the unity of the Church. Communion with and humble submission to the Church were regarded as a necessary condition for belonging to the Church. The falling away from the Church was, moreover, regarded as that from Christ and Christianity as well. The idea that it might be possible to belong to the Church invisibly and enjoy all the grace-filled gifts of the Church while being visibly separated from her, was quite alien to the ancient Church. And understandably so. Because a contrary idea inevitably would entail destruction of the one Church. This would be tantamount to preaching complete indifference in questions of Church life and Church discipline. And indeed, why should I avoid rebellion, schism, and even heresy in the Church, if separation from her, cessation of the vital unity with her would not jeopardize me in any particular way? Let me be disobedient towards the Church, let her expel me from the membership in her community, let her pronounce an anathema against me-no great harm is done; since I remain a Christian, I remain with Christ and am not deprived of the hope for eternal salvation! But then, what point was there in all the admonitions to obedience, to submission to the hierarchy, to a visible unity with the ecclesiastical community, which fills to over flowing the entire old Church literature, beginning with the Epistles of the Apostles and on to the missives of Clement of Rome and Ignatius the God-bearer? For Clement of Rome wrote his missive on account of a Church rebellion in Corinth and not on account of a heresy of some kind. All those admonitions could not have been sheer nonsense; on the contrary, they were full of meaning and significance in the ancient Church because she was unshakably convinced that there was no salvation, no Christian life, no Christianity outside the visible communion with her...”-Saint Hilarion (Troitsky), THE UNITY OF THE CHURCH AND THE WORLD CONFERENCE OF CHRISTIAN COMMUNITIES
It is absolutely shocking how utterly ignorant this person is. At minute 25 he says that Roman Catholics believe we are saved by faith alone. That is 100% false. See Trent CANON IX. "If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema."
Many evangelical pastors have become Eastern Orthodox. Its what happens when you build a house on sand and not the rock which is Christ.
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Zootown church teach Universalism salvation?
We have a sermon series called Hell-ology where we take a deeper look at three historical views of Hell (there are many more) we decided to focus on the three prominent ones. We then encouraged our congregation to go to God with their thoughts and the theories and make up their own minds. Whatever your belief is about Hell, you’re always welcome at Zootown Church.
Thanks for your kind response. I may check out your hell-ology series. I always enjoy learning new things. It often helps me better understand my our faith better. God bless.
Thanks, I listened to Hell-ology, episode 1 to just past 41:00 after the speaker said 4/6 of the Catechetical schools taught Universalism. I immediately thought about how most of the Catholic Bishops were Arian in the 4th C., but, even so, it was still condemned as a heresy at the Council of Nicaea. I also didn't understand the speaker's reasoning about Rome being politcal. The Catholic Church just had and has it's headquarters in Rome. The same Catholic church condemned Universalism around 543.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church states are n CCC 1035...'The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire." The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.'
Having shared all this, I still understand that we each are allowed to have our own beliefs. For me, I believe the Catholic Church was the one visible church Jesus and the Apostles passed on. The Didache, 1 Clement and Ignatius' letters, along with Justin Martyr, Polycarp and Irenaeus are enough proof for me especially since that same church gave us the canon that all Protestants embrace. but thanks again for suggesting the video series. God's blessings to all.
As Christians we need to convert muslims, that's it. I am Catholic but I beg all Protestants please join any of the Ancient Churches. Join the Catholic Church, the Orthodox Church, the Coptic Church and there are more. One thing the Ancient Churches have in common. They all worship the Eucharist! All of them! They all reject Sola Scriptura, all of them reject it, they have too. For the Bible didn't exist for the first 300 years it was the Church that existed. God Bless You all and please go home to the real Churches. God Bless.
Hope you come back to Catholic Orthodox Christianity, and bring lots of people with you ☦️🙏
I think it's awesome that you are studying the early church and the claims of Catholicism. I will pray for you on this journey and wherever it leads you. Please do not get offended by what I will say next. It will not benefit you to receive the Eucharist in the Catholic church right now. There are many moral issues that the Catholic Church takes a firm stance on. Have you thought about those and are you ready to be obidient to the Catholic church and her teachings. Also, the priest giving you the Eucharist is not being obedient to the Catholic Church. Even if the priest is the Pastor of that parish, he does not have the authority to give you the Eucharist. You may know more about Christianity and be more holy than me. You probably are. It doesn't matter if you are the best Christian of all time, the fact is, you have not summited to the authority of the church. It makes me sad to have to write this. Even if your priest thinks he is being welcoming in giving you the Eucharist, remember he is being disobedient. Please wait until you are in full communion with the church before you receive. People who study thier way into the Catholic Church from Protestantism often have many hurdles to overcome. Mary, confession, contraception, obligation to go to Mass, the Pope and the list goes on. You certainly don't want to recieve communion in a church that is teaching something false. Communion is not just a meal that unites Christians who believe in the true presence. The body and blood of Christ are only present in the church Jesus established. Christ doesnt have many bodies. He only has one. Please continue in your journey and discern which one. God Bless you, Liz
The reason the Pope want not as prominent in the first millennia is because the church was mostly united and therefore the Pope rarely needed to exercise his authority. This authority was always there. if you go orthodox, you'll be willingly adopting a spirit of division and a broken “orthodox” system.
😂😂😂 imagine lying about something so petty "mostly unified" lmao
@@joseonwalking8666 stop using the word imagine and lame emoticons and other unoriginal internet speech patterns and then not leaving anything substantive . Your next comment will, “when you…” or “I literally”. Friend, learn some articulate English.
@Jdn717 Your comment was just a waste of time and effort. So I didn't put much time into response. You're commenting on a video where the guys clearly leaning towards orthodoxy. And your first response is to start harping on roman catholic argumentation. Which btw was incredibly weak and just a bald assertion. So no I won't response with any level of seriousness when you are unserious. Not hard to comprehend my guy.
Are you saying that everyone goes to heaven and they don’t have to accept the gift of sacrifice Jesus made on the cross or accept him as lord and savior? I’m a little confused.
I didn't pick that up from the talk, I think he was criticising the Calvinist salvation paradigm. In the Orthodox Church, salvation and the gospel is much (much much) bigger than my individual ticket to Heaven, for example. Salvation is seen as participation in the Glory of God, in an unfolding process of becoming by grace, what God is by nature, and not just that I said the sinner's prayer 40 years ago and I'm safe.
Look into the story of the Evangelical Orthodox Church and Peter Gilquist. Seems like you’re on the same path, may you find the same destination!
If Rome claims that Augustine is a saint because of his “moral life” then Rome believes he was saved by his works. Which is consistent with Roman Catholic soteriology.
Your conclusion does not follow from those two premises. Poor logic. Saint means sacred or holy. Of course it is your holiness which gets you called a saint. what else?
As James 2:10 says…”For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in ONE point has become accountable for ALL of it.” How’s your holiness holding up?
The root of all evil in the world is the SynagogueofSatan. Greed is one of many symptoms of this.
37:15 such a bad understanding of Roman’s 9. Not even close to the context of what Paul was trying to talk about
God predestined us to become like Christ. This is what Theosis means. I recommend you research this. Take a close look at Romans:
Romans 8:28-30 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
I didnt think Catholic priests were allowed to let non catholics take communion ( besides orthos which catholics allow, but orthos dont allow )
Also, lawyers ruin everything
Also also, i dont think works function simply as proof of the grace we have recived. We are not justified by faith alone so says James. I do not think it is a proof of grace thing, i think it is a both simultaneously thing. James is crystal clear on this.
You are correct on both points.
Jan Hus was burnt fee years before maybe that’s why Luther was affraid to spoke to pope? Magisterium mostly didn’t discuss ( check what’s happen to Albigens group )
10:00 i actually do see a lot of doodoo
Welcome home to the Holy and Apostolic Church founded by Jesus Christ!❤🙏🏻
I wonder how many people left his church after this. I sure would have.
I truly don't know that many Protestants that think much at all about Luther, other then he began the Protestant reformation. I imagine Lutherans are more keen to his history but in my experience the greater Protestant church doesn't give two flips about him beyond this. Calvin on the other hand is a whole other animal and pervades many of the churches under Protestantism. I for one reject Calvin wholeheartedly and I think his doctrine is disgusting.
So in either case, I don't feel influence at all by these two men. I have accepted the Bible as my authority over finite men of the church who have their own hand in power grabbing. Whenever I listen to a speaker, preacher, pope, whatever, I do so guarding my heart. Will God protect His church. Of course He will but He has done so through the apostolic churches as well as the Protestant churches because the church was never an organization. It was the believer in Christ that made up the church.
Here is my real take on the greater Christian Community. Absolute unity would be the Godliest endeavor, but there are to many sticking points to see that happen without a miracle from God.
I think God has used all of the churches in His own way and each has their strengths and their weaknesses. If we could take the strengths of all of the churches then we would have a mature and true church of God.
I split the church into three groups.
1. The apostolic churches. Their strength is in their fear of God. Their reverence to the Almighty Holy One. Everything they do is with reverence and awe of who God is. Its beautiful and
respectful. Their weakness is scripture because they elevate themselves and their traditions equal to or above scripture and error has crept in.
2. The Conservative Protestants. These tend to be the Calvinisitc churches. They are strong in their scriptural foundation. They don't always get things right but they understand that
scripture is our final authority and our doctrines should be necessitated by it. Their weakness is the presence of God in their lives. They fear any form of emotion and are suspicious of
any display of it.
3. The charismatic churches. These churches are very strong in the presence and power of God in their lives. They have great faith and God works wonders through these churches. Their
weakness is scripture. They tend to be more emotional and experience driven. Scripture seems to take a back seat, as long as they feel good about what they are saying.
It is my belief that the perfect church, one that is mature and represents Christ in the purest way, would be a Christian or a Church that stands in awe of God, prioritizes the scripture above all else and has the faith to experience the power and presence of God in their lives. And I can only see what that would look like by combining the strengths of all three of these church types and imagining that.
Just become Orthodox and stop protesting ☦️
Just becouse someone say they dont worship Mary with there mouth doesnt mean they dont with there boddies.
Herode say the same thing when he told the wise man that when they find christ they should call him becouse he wanyed to worship too...but he actually wanted to kill him
36:17 min. I wonder how the Roman church had all does billions ? Hmmmm
This guy is all over the place. Make up your mind.
Is it that easy to make up your mind and something so important, knowing there will be life-long consequences? Is it that easy for you to make up your mind on such things?
Why bash others who believe in the gospel!!! If you brake it down, regardless , they love god regardless what denomination they are. Sorry I was a member of Zoo town and because of this I left. You need some grace!!!! Don’t bash how people worship God!!
The Catholic Church was not selling indulgences. You are picking out a strawman
From Wikipedia:
“In 1517, Pope Leo X offered indulgences for those who gave alms to rebuild St. Peter's Basilica in Rome.
The aggressive marketing practices of Johann Tetzel in promoting this cause provoked Martin Luther to write his Ninety-five Theses, condemning what he saw as the purchase and sale of salvation. In Thesis 28 Luther objected to a saying attributed to Tetzel: "As soon as a coin in the coffer rings, a soul from purgatory springs".[49] The Ninety-five Theses not only denounced such transactions as worldly but denied the pope's right to grant pardons on God's behalf in the first place: the only thing indulgences guaranteed, Luther said, was an increase in profit and greed, because the pardon of the church was in God's power alone.”
Sure did
@@matthewbostwick7266 Have you ever heard of an indulgent mother? One who gives extra good things to her children just gratuitously? The Church is our Mother. She can indulge her children. She has always done so with spiritual goods, especially as a practical tool to encourage the practice of virtue in them. She has the authority and the power to do so. It seems Protestantism doesn't think much about the practice of virtues: like any good habit, a virtue is acquired by practice and sheer repetition. Our Mother the Church asks us to do extra prayers and fasts and rewards our efforts with indulgences. This she continues to do to the current day. One good work is almsgiving: it hurts, and it is good for the soul. When the narrative refers to the "selling of indulgences," please don't swallow that uncritically.
This guy should not be doing church history.
Where was I wrong?
@@ScottKlaudt You weren't. Sadly as a Catholic it pains me when Protestants forget about history and say "you shouldn't study the early church".
God bless and you're doing the lord's work, from a Catholic down in the Bitterroot valley, you're welcome to visit our parish anytime!
@@user-zi7gd9pn3l I love when people say those things with zero substance
I have some comments about the Pastor’s historical take in the thread.
@@ScottKlaudt - I gave clear examples of where you were wrong. A quick google search would be able to show this. Like many who are frustrated with the current evangelical landscape, you are convinced that it must be wrong. This causes you to offer a bias analysis of what took place during the Reformation.
I don’t expect that this will change anything, nor that you will offer your congregation any retraction.
36:25 gross misrepresentation of Calvinism
*accurate simplification
Give me the non simplified version, we’ll see if you understand the Calvinist position
@@Gnathan96 I certainly can if I wanted to but I have better things to do with my time than argue with a random Calvinist on CZcams. No Church Father taught it ever. Your time is better spent reading them instead. You can also watch Jay Dyer. He has plenty of good material on Calvinism.
@@ElonMuskrat-my8jy 👎🏼 you’re the one who commented back. Jay dyer really?
@@Gnathan96 I don't care what you think about me. Calvinism is not historical or found in the Church Fathers as stated by Calvin himself. Its only 500 years old. It blasphemes the character of God. Jay Dyer has great content and knows Orthodox, Roman Catholic and Calvinist theology inside and out. You can call in and debate him if you want but you won't go far. If you want the Orthodox refutation of Calvinism you can read the Confession of Dositheus 1672.
If the Bible is no good then why do you quote it
You have to watch again and listen well. He did not say the Bible is no good. I think he would never say that. You need to watch and liaten with an open mind and heart to understand.
@@camilajero3409 that was a generalization and I do listen well I listened to all 3 messages. He saidseveral times that the Bible is not something we should trust bc it’s only 500 years old. If you don’t believe that God can keep his word alive and perfect then you are worshipping the wrong God. Hes all powerful and holds the world in his hand. You can’t say the Bible isn’t perfect and then quote it bc you’ve taken away any of its validity. I listened to all 3 messages and he contradicts himself often. I am a Christian and the things he says we were taught I have never even heard. Christ’s blood covers our sins. Not our wrath. We should be leading people to Christ only. Not to religion. The path to destruction is great and he mentions how all the Catholics are laughing at us. Interesting.
Wow. A lot of straw there in your straw man.
@@henrytucker7189 you see? Nice retort. Straw man. 🤦🏻♀️ good luck brother.
@@cpaget0381 if we can’t even agree on what we heard listening to the same sermon, how in the world are Christians supposed to come to agreement on the Bible? You’re just proving Scott’s point. Every man his own pope has been a disaster for the church. We need to trust the people who built the Church and were martyred for it… not guys who showed up 1500 years later and acted like they own the joint.