Luhmann & Cybernetic Identities w/ Hans-Georg Moeller
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- čas přidán 24. 01. 2021
- Hans-Georg Moeller of the channel "Carefree Wandering" @carefreewandering opens our series on the thought of Niklas Luhmann. Prof. Moeller is especially apt for introducing this complex thinker as he has written two books on Luhmann, "From Souls to Systems" and "The Radical Luhmann."
We also discuss the theory in an up-to-date context, discussing Prof. Moeller's newest book, "You and Your Profile" which deals with identity in the age of social media. The book can be viewed here: cup.columbia.edu/book/you-and-you…le/9780231196017
Carefree Wandering: / @carefreewandering
The theme music was composed by the always amazing Graeda. Visit his page here: / graedamusic
In Undisciplined we speak to experts from all fields whose research is exciting and novel. The tone of conversation is relaxed, and is intended to stimulate and intrigue anyone who is interested in learning more about cutting-edge developments, and looking at the world in new ways.
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1:05:52 "No hope, but also no fear: that's where theory, philosophy, finds its home"-what a surprisingly inspiring quote. It could almost be a philosopher's manifesto...I love it
"No hope, no fear." It was a Stoic motto, "Nec spe, nec metu."
I have a hard time imagining there ever was a time since societies emerged that humans haven't relied largely on second order observations to understand their world. It seems to me a side effect of us being social creatures, instead of tasting every berry we use second order observations and ask someone which ones are safe to eat.
Keep in mind that that doesn't affect the fact that we use second order observations a lot in current society
Moeller is a very clear educator of profound ideas. The host too asks great questions. The end comments on politics today is particularly useful.
I have followed Prof Moeller on Carefree Wandering and am drawn to his views. A word I was expecting to hear linked to Prolificacy is Credibility which at least in my mind is linked with Credit, Credential, Accredited, which I suppose is about qualification, suitability, fitness. These concepts have existed for a long time as in academic or professional qualification which are of course social system institutions. So I wander whether it is more an extension to a existing system than something new. I liked the point about critical vs dogmatic perspectives and first and second order observation and it seems to me that maybe dogmatic is itself second order thinking. Anyway, lots to chew on here for an amateur like me! Good podcasts. Thanks. 😊
Thank you for sharing your thoughts! I am glad that you found it interesting.
Interesting and challenging!
I think an important difference between the western 'social credit system' and the state run Chinese one, is the fact in the west placing your identity in profolicity is at least semi-optional.
A bit late to class, but a Magnificent Presentation!! Boatload of takeaways!
Never late! If you found it interesting, that's all that matters!
Here's a second-degree observation: the idea of profilicity and second-degree observation is really illuminating. It seems to helpfully facilitate self-critical thinking about how many of us nowadays increasingly appear to reflect in the world and build our identities.
Excellent interview! Congratulations!
this channel is such a gemm, quality interviews and wide range of topic, not too click batty as such
Thank you for the kind words. I wish I could upload more, but quality over quantity, right!
Love seeing more people talk about Luhmann!
I enjoyed this :) glad to have found your channel
the thumbnail is insaNE!
Similar sentiments here. It's truly living room wall poster stuff.
Fascinating! However, The problem I have with Luhmann and the like is, that you do not seem to gain much that could not have been said with simple words. Once you translate social structures into Luhmanns constructs they just echoes back simple insights but now on steroids and you allured to believe you got some profound insights by using His academian toolbox. Luhmann’s system is in this way just a system within a system that seeks Darwinian self justification.
Luhmann is trying to be purely descriptive in terms of society. In other words, he's trying to he scientific. So his goal isn't to be profound in a spiritual sense, though he could be said to be profound in the same way discovering the conservation of energy is profound.
46:36
Carefree wandering?
S. Puric: "Hobbes, Gauthier, and Moeller" - C. S. Lewis: THE LION, WITCH and THE WARDROBE [Forward-backward (looking), or...] Fan, fanatic, fanatical... "Cat Food", Cascade and Cadence.
Alasdair MacIntyre, "A narrative conception of the self". Niklas Luhmann? No, I'm going to the wrong address...
Yes! The one and the same.
Habermas was a crypto-normativist.
1:01:05 … moral posturing … has replaced politics and is thereby ... corrupting politics
This sounds like prof. Moeller is concerned about the authenticity of politics, which is corrupted by a new profile with an emphasis on morality that is stronger the prof. Moeller is used to. Is posturing not an inevitable element of politics? Morality is more intense in current politics than in the last decades. Born in 1971, to me it looks like the last decades have been especially quiet - at least in Kohl-,Schroeder-, and Merkel-Germany. In face of the global climate crisis and the inability of the current power system to handle it, todays politics look rather corrupted to me. My hopes are on those moral claimants rejuvenating und strengthening politics so we can deal with todays global challenges in a more appropriate way.