NEW Best Top Tier Jet? | War Thunder
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- čas přidán 19. 09. 2023
- Happy to see the AIM-9M isn't AS bad as it was on the dev server. The F-16C is going to be a real contender for top tier jets.
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Do you think the flare resistant missiles are too strong? Let me know in the comments 😎
I think the whole idea behind IRCCM in air rb is just incredibly dumb as a whole. There is no fun in what is essentially an “I win” button in a lot of circumstances, and of course it’s not fun to be on the receiving end either. Especially considering the low amount of countermeasures most planes get at top tier
@@commitselfdeletus9070 ITS WHAT IT IS MAN if you dont like it, leave top tier, me and a lot of people dont want stupid IR missiles that can be flared with 1 flare button, we want missiles that works like it suposed to work IRL, missiles that needs effort to evade, if you dont like that dont play anymore in top tier and if you dont want to leave top tier adapt to the new meta and keep going and improving yourself. stop with the complain.
@@geeno_ms5233 “just don’t play top tier” is such an incredibly stupid thing to say. Nowhere did I say it needs to be evaded with a single flare either, but there is a difference between the crap we get now, and say, how the old 9L behaved. Still required a little effort, but was very much reliably evaded if you just did it right
I was playing the F-14B a lot and didn't find them much of an issue until I started to use the F-16 ADF to grind and would run out of flares until I stopped taking mixed
Hi G limiter is for F16A only apparently
Also if you did not know the AGM-65D also is smokeless
AIM-9M flare resistance works next way - when seeker detects flares it turns off and uses inertial guidance, I already saw two other WarThunder youtubers made competent videos about dodging AIM-9M - first you pop flare - then make sharp turn and change direction, this way AIM-9M with turned off seeker will fly where you could have gone pre-flare and will loose you. It's not that hard. Unlike R-73 that uses other meas of flare resistance and much more hard to flare and dodge.
Simply flaring and turning is often not enough.
Op is correct. You can see this when you try to lock a target that's preflaring and instead of locking onto the flares, it flies off instead. Properly decoying a 9M requires enough flares to keep the inertial guidance of the 9M going so you can maneuver out of that flight path. Apparently this IRCCM was already present in the game on the TY missles on the Chinese z19 helicopter.
@CreEpeRneSs125 I think Stingers have this as well. As that seems to be the only way to flare them
@@SeekerHead No it is enough. You flare first and then turn and the seeker will lose you everytime. Sure you probably can't one flare it but I have seen a good number of times that 2-3 pops of flare is good enough. Oh and side aspect can be harder due to seeker not having enough time to even detect the flare if you try to do a one flare.
This is opposed to R-73 that is literally impossible to flare under 1.5km distance.
@@CreEpeRneSs125those TY-90s are stupid fucking op
Its hilarious seeing all the people complaining about flare resistance like they ddint just beg for newer planes and more modern missiles. What did they think was gonna happen? there would be no point in adding new missiles if they didnt have new features.
They wanted the r73 to win of course
@@LewisB3217 lol
Smokeless IRCCM 30G missile is going to terrify sim players
Missile: Requires more thought than "Pop one flare" to shake.
WT CC's : "iS tHiS mIsSiLe GaMe BrEaKiNg?????"
That logic would be fine if we had 1v1 or 2v2 engagements, but we don't.
What we actually have is 16v16 matches that inevitably deteriorate into mindless furballs as soon as contact is made. That's 16 planes after you, each armed with 6 missiles, and now you need actual effort to evade even one, all while there's several other people constantly launching at you from multiple directions. See the problem here?
The player count in the match needs to be halved, with the ability to respawn several times, and actual meaningful objectives spread across the map instead of being dead center. That would hopefully make any semblance of tactics more manageable.
@@lunarcultist6214 I whole heartedly agree. The 16 v 16 change was a massive mistake imo, but that's its own issue. These missiles with new systems are going to continue to roll out bigger and badder over time and the last thing I want to see is Gaijin gimping them.
But yes, the 16 v 16 needs to die
I will be okay with powerful missiles when they get rid of 16v16. Until then, it should not be difficult to flare stuff when most jets have just 15 total pops
@@SeekerHead fully agree. 16 v 16 is just an all around miserable experience at the top
The 9M is a very interesting missile tbh and its very nice the F-16C has more CM's especially in 16v16 but the maps need to be fixed more, more objectives that are also spread so you can have multiple dogfights/furballs across the map so you at least dont get 1 giant furball in the center. Plus more matches should occur in toptier where the player count is 12v12,10v10 and even 6v6 as you see more commonly in lower tiers. But great video once again Seek, 3:54 nice discord ping btw
The G limiter is there as a setting that you can turn on if you use Full Realistic Controls. Its basically for the Sim players
Some info on the R-73
The missile is practically what people did research on the R-27T, it has IRCCM which shrinks it's seeker cone as it flies off the rail there was a specific number that I forgot about but it is very very VERY small, if a player lets the missile fly for more than 1.2 seconds, it is impossible to NORMALLY flare the missile, I've used the R-73s and I'm telling you that this missile paired with 40gs of pull is something that you do not want to have to face while doing tasks that make you tunnel vision especially in top tier air rb. The R-73 can be countered by pre-flaring or flaring as soon as you see the missile diamond icon "MSL."
It is most easiest to dodge the missile front-aspect because you are most aware of the missile when you are in front of the SMT user and your heat-signature isn't as hot... unless you're an F-14.
For anyone wondering what the radar difference is it’s like the f14 where if u have some one locked in pd you can switch to search mode mid lokc
The reason the aim9m is hard to flare from side aspect but easy from front and rear is because when it sees flares it turns off its seeker and goes to wherever it thinks your plane is going which means if you just flare once then change direction it will just miss which is how most people flare rear and front aspect but from side people just flare and keep flying straight which is why it always hits
Can't wait to see you cover the mirage 2k-5F after the magic 2 and super 530D buff
Very unimportant buff, it doesn’t change much at all
@@SeekerHead the magic 2 getting eccm and basically the same flare resistance as the r73 is unimportant? that + the mirage 2k-5F getting HMS, i think it could be good, but u the youtube man, not i :p
Because the magic 2 is still the worst IR missile at top tier. It’s range is pathetic, it flies like it has a parachute attached to it, having shorter range than even the R60M. It’s short range capability is all it is useful for, but the fuse timer of 1.8 seconds means short range shots often times won’t even fuse and the missile will fly right past. What you’re stuck with is a missile that can’t go past 2km on a supersonic target, but also won’t fuse until roughly a kilometer depending on the aspect. Your launch window is extremely particular compared to every other top tier missile. The flare resistance is good, but not quite R73 good. Similar in rear aspect but that’s pretty much it.
I think it might be more flare resistant from the side because of the way irccm works. Like, since it udes a very small fov, in a side aspect flares light up outside the fov and are ignored, but from the back they get tracked? Maybe? This is a theory. A game theory
I suspected that too
FoV isn't per se very small. It's one of the largest still for IR missiles, at 3.6°. Not as big as on the R-60 (5°) but still. AIM-9M's IRCCM works kinda perfectly against how people tend to flare in the side aspect. When people go side on and flare, they often fly in a straight line and rely on the missiles to lock onto the flare. With the very fast spatial seperation you get from the view of the missile in that aspect, most missiles will not be able to reacquire the plane. AIM-9M however counters this by not locking onto the flare at all, instead it just shuts off its seeker and continues going the way it was going without any new input. Because most people just fly straight when flaring like this, the AIM-9M will find the plane again once the flare has left its FoV.
That's why front/rear aspect the AIM-9M is more easily flared as well. People will actually turn away from their flares in these aspects often. In addition flares just linger around longer in the seeker FoV, which keeps the missile from actively tracking for longer. Of course you need to flare first and then turn, not turn and then flare, or you get the same problem as in the side aspect scenario. Overal very similar dynamics as you'd have with small FoV seekers, except that this method on the AIM-9M (and all manpads) is just more effective most of the time. Another way to look at it is, smaller FoV scale with overal seeker quality (detection ranges/ratios) whilst the IRCCM on the 9M does not (as much).
@@Wotplaya4 that makes a lot of sense
I don't have it yet, but I have the F-16ADF, and ima say, the F-16C is probably going to be the king of air SIM for a while
Yeah old adf in sim balls out I can’t imagine the C
2 month later, I've Spaded the thing and played a day or two with it in air SIM, and goddamn it's crazy, the only thing that poses any sort of threat is a MiG-29G, or an SMT if they sneak up on you with an R-73
what is disappointing 'bout F16C is that it doesn't have HMD radar locking as Mig29 has. i know HMD locking is not so much helpful than everyone think, but having it ain't waste.
Hmd locking is super useful you can 100% lock the target you want with no problems vs acm where it can lock on some randoms plane just existing somewhere else
Imo the radar HMD would be more useful than IR HMD specifically for the F-16. AIM-9Ls don’t really let you take a huge advantage of the HMD, but being able to lock with radar before you get all the way around a turn would be huge
But wouldn’t flares reinforced be a much more viable option if we as F16’s would be flying low? That way in the older versions we could get 60. Just asking as a question, just wanna know.
Chaff is kind of needed. Sure you can fly low, but not always.
HMD other than on the SMT is just a nice touch Imo. Not massively useful but it’s appreciated and can help you get locks sometimes
I think the 9M is in a pretty good spot, so is the R73, we can’t have 1 flairable missile forever, it is easy to dodge the 9M if you know what your doing, the F-16 you shot at 1:55 has no idea how to dodge it. The R73 is also in a good place I think, not as good as the 9M at range but really strong at short range, inside 1.5km you can’t flair the 73 outside front aspect. Both these missiles are good and should not be changed
I agree with the 9m I think in its current state it feels pretty balanced. The R-73 im unsure just because of its flare resistance combined with the best flight performance now I don't mind it on platforms other than the smt tbh I think the smt is just very op rn as its really the best in every way but turning
Would you consider doing a vid on the state of top tier ARB? Do you think the current meta of hugging the deck is sustainable or even how the game should play going forward into the modern era of planes?
What’s the fix to change that meta?
Smaller matches, and missiles like AMRAAMs dont care as much about being low.
@@SeekerHead😏😈 soon
@@SeekerHeaddid gaijin gave you an answer to your Recent poll about the smaller matchmaker?
@@SeekerHead This isn’t true at all though, the solution is more EC maps and extending engagement distances. Reducing player count is an objective downgrade and does nothing to allow for more dynamic games. This also solves nothing for attackers/bombers at high BR.
@@thebean8255 Or just making Air RB EC, with objectives actually spread out instead of all the objectives being in the center, forcing placers to converge regardless of the intended engagement distance.
Didn’t know it was called flare flower, but was gonna say flare and roll tends to work against 9M
Just an unofficial nickname
From my own personal experience the 9m has been making a bigger impact than the R73. I don’t think it’s necessarily stronger I think just due to a bunch of smaller details lining up it’s become a gremlin of a missle.
That and nobody fucking plays the SMT. I think out of 20 games I maybe saw like 4. Vs the 6-8 f16c’s per match.
And that the SMT although has the r73 it’s still just basically an 27ER slinger.
Overall it’s strange cause I would think the mig 29 SMT would hit the ground running a decent bit vs the F16C but it really hasn’t. Then again the same thing sorta happened with the other mig29 and it just got clouded by F16s.
This 16 vs 16 shit is aweful. Team sizes need to be reduced for non-EC maps. My RWR looks like a note from the Zodiac Killer. 16 vs 16 renders their new RWR mechanics useless 90% of the time.
lol and it’s crazy that now 6 months later we’re gonna get the f22 raptor
I thought the F-16 Block 72 was the most recent? Or has that just not been released yet
dunno why till now gaijin still doesnt let us drop chaff and flare separately, pretty sure IRL it's is configurable
im watching this 3 months later do u have any tips for 9ms now?
I believe G-limiter is for sb full control with dempf on. If u turn dempfing off u won`t have this limiter.
The SMT is a boat atm and dumps all of its speed in a 90 degree turn so tbh the f16 is a bit better atm
That being said the 29 has the best weapon systems in the game atm just a shame that it has the same turn rate as an f4e
I think we need a new game mode or a decrease in player count of lobbies, to like 10-8, 6 would be pleasant but you then depend more on rng of getting good teammates with good aircraft, which in a way would be good
edit: fixed typo (from we think need -> I think we need)
the av8b is at 11.7 with aim9ms so it faces 10.7s
Actually right now all MiG-29s have become literal bricks, they bleed way more speed than they used too anytime they are above 10 degrees AoA. The MiG-23MLD rates FAR better than it now.
Instead of keeping it as it was before the patch they decided to transform the MiG-29 in what is basically a fast missile carrier (with definitely too strong missiles), but whit shitty maneuverability.
It is definitely the best plane in the game as it still can zoom around the map (speed was not changed), but it’s extremely not fun to fly imho
Hahaaha Im excited to grind to the f16c and excited to play the f16c but tbh im stil a tomcat enjoyer :D
Fair enough, it's a good jet
This is not the most modern f16 in the us arsenal.... and consider that the block 50s are all modernized, the block 70 (f16v) is the most recent.
honestly no idea why they went with the blk 50, they shouldnt have even added another F16 till like december
and here I am stuck with a 11.7 Viggen, not having a single top tier..
"And I'll see you later" *Ejects*
Yoo saw you in the stream last night seeker
Where F-15
Bro, I swear I get killed by 9Ls more when flaring than 9Ms and R73s.... could be that most planes still have it, but I swear I've flared 9Ms and R73s easier than 9Ls.... also, the 7M might be worse than the R27ER in nearly everything but it's also far superior to the R27R-T. so far, it's fun at top tier for me as a stock mig29SMT ( ;) ), but I've seen some differences in the radar, when locking on to targets, It's a bit wonkier especially in HMD PD mode and TWS. Mig29SMT is a flying bus as a stock, they fixed the fuel consumption for it (mig29 in general) so instead of crashing after bringing full fuel I can make it easily back to base with a drop tank and 20 min of fuel :). I agree that the R73 is just a R60M on steroids, it's got similar range to the 9M and 9L, similar speed to them and tracking (missile guidance at long range), but its far superior in a turn and can sometimes get planes at ridiculous angles but it's not nearly as good as it was when it was first introduced in the dev server forever ago, it can be easily flared from the sides past 1-1.5km of launch, but if you're going head on and launch under 1.5km I'd say it's got a 50-50% chance of hitting which is far better than most if not all all-aspects.
You forgot to mention that radar can now be switched on the fly while maintaining lock like the F14 could previously. This makes the AIM7M much more viable on the F16 now as you can switch to src when the enemy tries to notch.
Just grinding this for better top tier CAS
TWS is by far the greatest addition to the f-16, targetacquisition is 10 times easier.
The f16s op now
i cant pull any more than 9g's with the f16A.......TF
Just unlocked the mig29 9.13 man there is nothing i can do at top tier
they also buffed the R27ER to 35 gs instead of the original 30
Magic 2 with 100km range
Seeker head never fails to make my fuel probe extend ❤
try flying the ja 37d in this matchmaker 😂😂
its got the rwr of a mig 21 now
P A I N
the 11 g limit is for mouse look
og purple enemies
F-16 shouldn't have fire extinguisher.
erm actually the block 52 is the most advanced F16
I just use Aim9M as Aim7's
this is no where near the most modern f16
Common Seek W
please make gaijin put the AIM-9L on the Phantoms, i'm struggling getting uptiered being 11.3
Or... you could ask for the F-4J to be down tiered to 11.0...
@@nercksrulenot a fucking chance when it has 7Fs. maybe the british phantoms could go to 11.0, but nothing else
It’s kinda the situation the f4E was in with the non PD radar, you may need to either just rat really hard or wait till 12.7 is the new top tier
@@spectre0969 the F4 EJ needs to go down to 10.7. unlike the other E variants it doesn’t get the leading edge slats or whatever makes the E more maneuverable. and it doesn’t get Dogfight missiles. there’s no way in hell that should be fighting F16As and Mig29s
@@ShinyRIS in my case the Phantom FGR.2 is the same, no Agile Eagle slats, Skyflash missiles lacks range.
Great punishment for those who doesn’t like to learn.
there is no learning to be had
using those new 12.3 jets in top tier GROUND RB is so janky, tanks are 11.3
Tanks are 11.7 buddy
No it needs the 40g
I miss the old top tier
Same. I really really love playing when it was Mig23 vs F5e or even F16A vs Mig29. Missiles weren’t op
@@OzzyTheWild yeah those were some good dogfights. Now it's just a clusterfuq. I loved playing sabres v mig15s where at worst you only had to worry about aim9b
@@hatoffnickel yeah I won’t play top tier for some time I think. I understand that missiles were flared way too easily before, but if cutting your after burner and putting 10 flares isn’t enough…
It's not the most modern F-16 the US has tho
finny bouter
bouter finny
Whats sad is the Aim-7M is copy paste from the Aim-7F while the R-27ER ET R they are all modeled right while warthunder hates on US/NATO players by constanly copy and pasting
The copy paste 7M is beneficial to the US. Making the 7M unique would mean a nerf to the 7F, not a buff to the 7M.
? How IS THAT Aim-7M is a direct upgrade of the Aim-7F It should be better its a more advanced missile Russia shouldnt SHOULDNT always get better missiles IM SICK OF THE BS I grinded the US tree took me half a year with the F-5C I just bought the Mig-23ML and Im already at the Mig-29 already and its only been 8 days since I got it it shows True Russian Bias Russia spends 80 BILLION a year on its military the US military Spends 870 BILLION! yes Billion on its military and in warthunder They constantly piss on my Country AND IM SICK OF IT ! Russia IS NOTHING Compared to my country thats why they are getting their asses Smacked in Ukraine for over 70 YEARS my country has profected its weapons to do one thing Kill russians and in Warthunder the Abrams is JUNK compared to the T-80BVM while Ukraine 1 JUST 1 FGM-148 Pops the turret off and makes it go into space im sick of how my country is treated Top Tier isnt balanced at ALL you got a Ka-50 PREMIUM and KA-52 that are able to kill mach 1 fighters helicopters and tanks from 10,000 feet away easily try that with another heli can tell me how it works out for you T-80BVM in warthunder is almost impossible to kill Watch Justinplays BVM gameplay he rushes the enemy and doesnt get killed and he drops a nuke try that with any other nations tank and now we got before this update and many more Russia got the Mig-23MLD which WAS OP AF ! then they got the Mig-29 which could pull 15G while the F-16 which is one of the BEST FIGHTER JETS IN THE WORLD only pulling 9G to 10G and its so bad that Gaijin didnt even model the Seat that well the F-16 seat is made to reduce G Load on the pilot making the Pilot last a LOT LONGER in high G turns they didnt model that But they give Russia Data Link F-16C HAS DATA LINK BUT IN WARTHUNDER IT DONT SO IF YOU CANT SEE RUSSIAN BIAS AND HOW UNFAIR THE GAME IS THEN YOUR JUST STUPID DUDE YOU MAKE MONEY OFF THIS GAME SO WHY THE FUK WOULD YOU GIVE A DAMN @@SeekerHead
Let me explain it better for you. The AIM 7M is indeed an upgrade over the 7F in real life. The upgrade is only a seeker upgrade though. Kinetically, they’re the same. The 7M upgraded to an inverse mono pulse seeker. This gave it better chaff resistance and just overall better guidance and harder to fool. Every missile in war thunder is modeled as if it was Inverse Monopulse. This is done intentionally, as the non-inverse mono pulse missiles, such as the R530s, all of the sparrows AIM7F and prior, R23s, etc would be garbage. Only the Skyflash, R24, R27s, and AIM7M would be usable. So, if you truly want the 7M to be an upgrade over the 7F, that would mean nerfing the AIM7F, and many other SARHs (every other sparrow, even) rather than buffing the 7M. The 7M is the one that is modeled correctly. All of the other sparrows are over performing.
👍👍👍💪💪👌👌💥💥🙏
No its not
Very broken
9M it's funny because is not Russian lol
stop relying on flares .. learn how to manipulate the missile and defeat it with flight .. jeez
Block 52 is the latest USAF F-16C
Oops
The only difference between the 52 and 50 is whether or not it uses a Pratt and Whitney or General Electric engine. They're functionally the same plane.
Bruh 1. Pls pin me
Bruh 2.
No, I don't think I will
bro please @@SeekerHead
Game looks so white now lol
Why does the gameplay from the majority of the wt creators or streamers looks like a 10 year old washed out t-shirt i mean the graphics. Everything is blurry unsharp and unbalanced in colors.
Are you sure it isn't just WT?
Probalby just youtube video compression which makes it looks that way. Some creators resort to uploading in 4K or 1440p for better quality (which is perceivable in 1080p).