If you kill Ulfric before going to Sovngarde, you can encounter his ghost. And after death, when Ulfric can see clearly what he has done and what were the consequences, he regrets it.
@@Smileyreal The difference is when Stormcloaks fall, the Empire gonna hand Skyrim to the Thalmor on a silver plate, and Tulius gonna be licking Elenvens feet. Even if Skyrim couldn't stand Thalmors invasion (which they could, with Dragonborn on their side) I would rather die fighting for my home than become a slave to some puffed up elf.
I wonder if Ulfric will be in Sovngarde in my game. Hes currently one of my dead thralls. He retains his shouts and all of his speech. I wonder if the game recognizes that I brought him back, and rempve him from Sovngarde? Or will he be both in Sovngarde and as my dead thrall, essentially cloning him? Anyone else tried this before?
@@jizzyg1559 Not just the dragon born, if you complete the quest "in my time of need" in favor of the A'likr, their leader will tell you that the resistance against the Dominion in Hammerfell is alive and eager to see Saadia punished for her treason. There's some alliance potential there.
"I'm a Vampiric Lord, the Archmage of the College in Winterhold and the Dragonborn, with equipment so powerfully enchanted that I can cast all types of spells at no cost, and that enhances my health and stamina to insane levels incomprehensible to you. I can and will destroy each and every one of you if you dare to step in my path on my way to become High King of Skyrim."
No public schooling? GOOD! Your family doesn't need all that globalist- I mean, thalmor propaganda and brainwashing, you can teach your brood how to swing an axe all by yourself; the traditional Nord way!
that's what the Stormcloaks are trying to do, the Imperials don't rule anything, they're fighting to be the bitches of the thalmore and slowly be opressed, stripped of rights and dominated.
@@meginna8354 but when the empire gain force and recover his strengh he will make a 2nd war against the thalmor. Speak with rikke if she considers the thalmor enemies or not.
Exiled? Haha no. Execute every last one of them and send their severed heads back to the Summerset Isles, just like the Thalmor did to the Empire with the Blades. The Empire is planning to go to war with the Dominion anyway after they’ve recovered their strength, so why not do so with style.
@@peryite9979 the empire is still the same empire though the rulling line is not. Why did Talos create the empire to begin with. Ulfric if he really was true to his beliefs should aim to restore the empire as Talos once did, instead he looks only to Skyrim and ironically his cause brings more disruption for both empire and Skyrim.
Remember however that even though Talos created it, they banned the worship of him in the white gold concordant. Now we know why it's to preserve to fight another day, but the Nords are simple, and the outlawing of their deity did not sit kindly.
I guess they thought the current system didn't represent Talos. Makes sense since it outlawed his worship. I remember reading a book in the game; it attracted me because it was pro-Empire despite appearing in Windhelm. It was a scholar who insisted that worshipping Talos as a god undermined his human accomplishments, and went on to say that the men of Skyrim should be grateful to the elves for showing the error of their culture. It's that kind of writing that puts a lot of ordinary people off to academia and high society, provoking further rebellion-even if mostly out of spite.
@Ford Fairlane the nords were before the imperial invaded Skyrim so he wants it for the nords and ulfric was betrayed by the imperials at markarth after he saved their asses from the forsworn
Ulfric is rather dishonourable from the start. 1. He was chosen by the Greybeards, to be taught in the Way of the Voice and to become a Greybeard like them. After only ten years and learning two Shouts (Unrelating Force and Disarm), he joined the war and used those Shouts to fight, Forsaking the Way of the Voice, only to be captured by the Thalmor, being turned into an asset and causing needless conflict. 2. Ulfric staged the Markarth Incident, turning Markarth into a Nordic city, which proves valuable to the Thalmor since now they can subjugate it since it belongs to Skyrim. 3. Ulfric was massacring and executing native Reachmen on such a scale that it got the Empire's attention, prompting an investigation. After the Empire uncovered the full-scale massacre of the Reachmen under Ulfric and Jarl of Markarth's hand, the Empire called for the arrest of Ulfric, Hrolfdir and the militia (who then hasn't started using the term 'Stormcloak' to identify themselves) responsible. Thus, leading to Ulfric's imprisonment and deep resentment towards the Empire. 3. Ulfric's militia turned rebellious after his imprisonment, taking the title 'the Stormcloaks.' After Ulfric's father, Hoag's death, the Empire allowed Ulfric to be released. After taking the throne as Jarl of Windhelm, Ulfric forced the Argonians population outside the city walls via a decree, segregated the Dunmer population to the Grey Quarter. Ulfric also did not act if an Argonian or Dunmer of his city was attacked, threatened or was being discriminated, only sending aid or investigation if a Nord was in that situation. All the while, skirmishing against the Empire rather unsuccessfully due to High King Istlod's efforts. 4. After High King Istlod's death, despite Toryyg having a traditionally justified claim to the throne, held a Moot where the Jarls of the cities of Skyrim could make the decision to elect a High King. The Jarls of Skyrim elected Toryyg to be the High King. 5. Ulfric then asked for an audience with the High King Toryyg, where he challenged Toryyg to a Traditional Nordic Duel, to which Toryyg had the choice to accept the challenge or rearrange another moot. Toryyg accepted the challenge and Ulfric unleashed the voice to disorient or disarm Toryyg, though Ulfric claims that he killed Toryyg with his sword. His use of thu'um against someone who can't use thu'um was considered by many as an unfair advantage and blasphemy in the Way of the Voice, since you are forbidden to use the Voice to fight, leading to many accusing Ulfric of murder and alienating many against him. 5½: the Duel doesn't have to end in death, you can best the opponent and banish him. But Ulfric knew Toryyg was a better leader, therefore he eliminated the threat by outright killing him. Also a reason why many consider him a murderer. 6. If he had asked Toryyg to declare independence from the Empire, which judging from the deep respect Toryyg has for Ulfric, he would've accepted. Instead, Ulfric killed Toryyg and started a Civil War. 7. When the Jarls of Skyrim demanded a Moot, Ulfric did not allow it to meet as he did not want Jarl Elisif, Widow of the High King Toryyg to become High Queen. In conclusion: Ulfric has no honor, has a track record of genocide, is highly discriminatory against anyone who isn't a Nord, highly anti-authoritarian even when the authorities are doing the best possible thing, used the voice to his advantage, has dictatorial tendencies and is prone to violent means to get what he wants, and is overall brutal, selfish, insecure, authoritarian and stupid.
This one small part of a conversation changed my mind forever. Tullius: "Enough... enough..." Ulfric: "This is it for you. Any last words before I send you to Oblivion?" Tullius: "You realize this is exactly what they wanted." Galmar: "What who wanted?" Tullius: "The Thalmor. They stirred up trouble here. Forced us to divert needed resources and throw away good soldiers quelling this rebellion." It doesn't matter who wins.. it matter that the fighting keeps going to the Aldmeri Dominion. I always believed that the Dragonborn can easily become the next Tiber Septim and lead Skyrim into independence successfully like Hammerfell fought of the Thalmor but we have to make sure we don't lose good MEN for when the MER come back.
If General Tullius knew this, why didn't he respect the Nord's culture? Why does it seem like he's doing everything in his power to crush them completely? If engaging in Civil War is going to destroy the world, why wouldn't he let the Nords rule THEIR OWN LAND and then ally himself with them? Tullius is a POS and it shows at the beginning of the game when he's about to execute you, an innocent person, without a trial.
Mr Reasonable If you talk to him in windhelm he says that he used the voice to shout him to the ground, but that’s not what killed him. Ulfric’s sword is what actually did the killing.
Ulfric challenged the king to a challange according to the old nordic traditions, that includes the voice aswell, due to all the draugr (Dead nords) who is able to shout at the player, the voice was used by many nords, and used for challengeing each other to take power, kind of like in a wolf pack, where you have to kill the alpha to become the alpha. So he did beat him fair and square.
These pretzels Suck ass well to be fair the presence of the Empire in Skyrim is really small, and it’s the only reason why Ulfrics rebellion wasn’t destroyed at the beginning. From what I have dug up from the lore only a single small Legion of the Empire is in Skyrim. The other I think nineteen legion are at the borders of the Dominion preparing for war
These pretzels Suck ass Maybe the empire in the province but not the empire as a whole, the legion in Skyrim is mostly a bunch of rag tag farmers and stuff like that, not highly trained soldiers like the rest of the legion.
No he killed his previous wife ( that's the skeleton under the bridge to dragonreich) it's a theory in one of epicnates videos. Theirs also a side quest where you find out one of his son's has a different mother and a dadric God has been talking to him. Theirs a lot more to this theory so check out the video if y'all are interested
General Tullius will flat out admit the empires plan to regroup and rebel later. Also Ulfric making a big deal about the markarth incident was the reason Talos worship actually had to go underground, before everyone still did it and still had their shrines. After ulfrics tantrum the aldmeri steamrolled in and started purging it.
The markarth incident is Ulfric getting arrested for talos worship after freeing markarth of the forsworn in exchange for being allowed to worship talos. The Thalmor found out and the empire handed over Ulfric. Ulfric didnt have a tantrum he made a deal with the jarl of markarth to retake the city in exchange for free worship and the jarl agreed. He retakes Markarth and is shortly afterwards turned over to the thalmor by the empire and the thalmor begin investigating talos worshipers with the approval of the empire. The empire reneged on the deal. Ulfric was in the right.
@@gheleonthedriven649 yeah but the Empire also turned a blind eye whenever someone worshipped Talos and wasn't cracking down which infuriated the Aldmeri Dominion. Hell even Tulius turned a blind eye away from his lieutenant when she mentioned Talos. Ulfric then had his idiot rebellion and the forced the Empire to crack down. If Ulfric was smart and patient then eventual Talos worship would have returned after the second war
@@drakashrakenburgproduction5369 Yeah but before the Markarth incident there were no freaking Thalmor arresting people left and right, that only happened because of the Markarth incident.
It's been over twenty years since the great war at the point of Skyrim. All the while, a key member of the Nordic pantheon is illegal to acknowledge. I'd want to distance myself from that empire as much as possible too if I worshiped Talos.
@@redgeoblaze3752 what people don't see is that skyrim does not stand a chance against the dominion on her own, an independent skyrim would just get conquered by the domininon, and then even underground worship of talos would be wiped out.
I don't know why we can't have the option to persuade him to side with Ulfric. He says he won't side with either side: "I'm on the side of Whiterun" but then somehow justifies returning Ulfric's axe & accepting Imperial soldiers in his city. The best of both worlds would be to KEEP Balgruuf as jarl & help to free Skyrim.
@Tupac Shinji- Balgruuf is doing what he believes is best for Whiterun . Joining the Stormcloaks is not what’s best for Whiterun ( In his view) and the don’t think he has the kind of character to switch loyalties so easily .
He's a good man, but he cannot understand even the most basic non-physical combat strategy.... U lose the war? u stop it and prolongue the peace at any way untill u grow stronger....
@These pretzels Suck ass Then who is he fighting against. If he wanted to fight the white gold concordat he would take the fight to the Thalmor. Even though the band of idiot stormcloacks would never stand a chance.
@@blu3d3vil97 He is everything but a good man. He is a racist power hungry savage who only wants chaos. He has blinded the people into fighting for so called freedom but really he only cares for himself.
Elves live for hundreds of years. The Thalmor are playing a divide and conquer game, on a larger and longer scale. They egged a stupid radical to do what stupid radicals do, provide reasons for enemies to attack on their own people. The redguards "secession" was a ruse to send reinforcements and kick the Thalmor out of Hammerfell. But Ulfrik's actions are far more damaging in the long run. He might have his fun watching the Thalmor trounce the Empire, but the end of the imperials means one less human ally when the Thalmor finally show at Skyrim's door.
While I agree that ulfrik can’t beat the AD by himself, since for him to win against the empire he would have the help of the Dragonborn so wouldn’t he/she also help ulfrik fight the AD
There are many reasons why I'm against the stormcloaks, they're racist, egotistical assholes who can't see the bigger picture. If the empire falls, the thalmor win. And if the stormcloaks can't repel a smaller imperial faction, what will they do against the thalmor themself?
@@rumor-936 well. For starters the Cyrodill the only way to enter skyrim via land is blockaded by imperials anyway. The only way the AD could invade is via Sea. Skyrim shores is the in-game equivalent of bermuda triangle, regardless I highly doubt the DB would let the AD invade at all.
I'm selfish too. Their system was bouta have me headless. A system similar to the one that helps the fake get ahead. I'm in the game innocent and on death row. I took it personal.
@@smokenmirrors63 You should take it personally. The Empire is shown to be evil from the very first cutscene of the game. You can't be the good guys if you execute innocent people without a trial.
@@macggnore They are not shown to be evil. That wasn't the Empire that was one commander who gave the order. Hadvar regretfully obeyed and had it been up to him you would have been set free. He also tries to protect you during Alduin's attack and Gen. Tulius screams "Protect the citizens" when Alduin attacks Helgen. Ulfric has the "my way or high way" attitude which certainly doesn't help his cause.
@@smokenmirrors63 They are not shown to be evil. That wasn't the Empire that was one commander who gave the order. Hadvar regretfully obeyed and had it been up to him you would have been set free. He also tries to protect you during Alduin's attack and Gen. Tulius screams "Protect the citizens" when Alduin attacks Helgen. Ulfric has the "my way or high way" attitude which certainly doesn't help his cause.
It makes more sense considering the Dragonborne fights the dragons, risk his/her life in Dwarven Temples and Caves, Either tried to avoid making deals with daedra or only with the good ones, help out Raven Rock, Take care of the Vampires in Morthal and the large group of vampires (or joining them), helping orc strongholds, becoming a companions leader, Becoming Thane to towns, Fighting Mirrak, Defeating the World Eater and all such, The Dragonborne did so much more as everyone asks him/her so many favours including whether which side of the war you choose to get the Jagged Crown even though you are with some help but both sides do nothing unless you are involved, Which concludes that the Dragonborne should be the High King/Queen as all was done and resolved by one person all along.
That's a very irrational reason not to choose him, he as a person is flawed but his side is the right side, the imperials are just fighting to be the thalmores bitch and slowly be oppressed and dominated by them.
@@meginna8354 The Imperials are not in shape to fight the Thalmor yet, do you honestly believe that seceding will help Skyrim? The Thalmor are doing the smart thing, divide and conquer, once Cyrodill falls, Skyrim is next, then High Rock, then Hammerfell... What do you expect a bunch of divided and weak nation-states to do again a well prepared Aldmeri army? Win? You people are just insane, Ulfric is just a power hungry traitor, nothing more.
@@raiderfox7229 they've already conquered the Empire. Ulfric is all those things but his side is right, it's the duty of the Dragonborn to overthrow the Thalmor, not help them dominate.
@AuRtHoR That's a pretty immature and irrational response to someone who just stated a perfectly acceptable choice in a *video game* You could just give a reasoned counter argument without insulting him over something that isn't even real.
@Jaded Old Joe I'm interested to know how the stormcloaks are "racist" ? I'm genuinely curious as to why they are labelled as such but no one else in the game is. A reasoned response just concerning the game would be appreciated.
@@54356776 Its mainly reflected in two ways. Their warcry "Skyrim belongs to the Nords" and the way Windhelm is governed. Argonians are not permitted to take up residency inside the city walls while the Dunnmer are badly treated with either the city guard participating or at the very least turning a blind eye to it. Further more many Stormcloak allied Jarls will spew all manner of anti elven slurs at *any* given opportunity. Their zealous hatred of elves of course being somewhat justified given that the ruling government of the allied Elven races is actively persecuting them for worshiping their deity. I would play devils advocate and suggest that actually they have a genuine greivence.
@AuRtHoR Well you could look at is as the stormcloaks are absolutely right. The ONLY reason anyone should support the empire is because they're the only ones powerful enough to hold their own against the thalmor.
@aurthor Lol your super triggered reaction was WAY more immature.... so if a group of people tried to kill you and you were barely saved, you really think it would be an immature reaction to have a grudge against a group of people that were literally about to cut your head off for seemingly nothing. Really? So you would sympathize with the people that just tried to kill you. Do you have a weird form of Stockholm or are you just a bitch 😆
@@marcm7009 Not really, he's judging them based on their actions, the thalmor are racist assholes, and when ulfric calls them out you're all like he's a racist, wtf.
@@marcm7009 no, not all elves. Just high elves. He clearly doesn't hate the dunmer or bosmer as they take residence in his city. If he hated the dunmer, than why would he let them step foot in windhelm? Sure, they live in the slums of the gray quarter, but it's still windhelm. Clearly ulfric doesn't mind them being there. And the bosmer are practically always peaceful towards nords and really anyone they talk to. The bosmer are very peaceful people and therefore everyone treats them fairly even if they don't admit it. Now, the khajit and argonians on the other hand, they may be relatively peaceful but they also tend to be the troubled kind.
@Gaming Lemming This is evident when the city guard threaten two Hammerfell soldiers when you enter the city. The guard telling them they aren't allowed and lucky they weren't arrested on the spot. As the city won't tolerate outsiders stirring up trouble. This being said, Thalmor agents would likely be told the same thing. They would stir up trouble if they entered the city and thus would be banned from passing the city gate. Any that do would likely be arrested.
Heimskr the priest (not to mention the flippin' huge Talos statue behind him) is evidence that Whiterun is actually pro-Talos worship. I think it's a real shame that there's no option to persuade Balgruuf to side with Ulfric against the Empire without bloodshed.
One man does not Simply hold the name of “Dragonborn,Thane of all Holds,Listener,All God’s Champion,Harbringer,Chief of Thirsk Mead Hall,Killer Miraak, Killer of Alduin,Married to Aela,Rider of Shadowmere,Vampire Lord Wrontit
I feel that siding with the Empire is the right decision all along, and that having you nearly executed by them mistakenly at the start is the game asking you to do the same as Ulfric. Let go of your own personal grudges and issues for the bigger picture.
i play since begining , after years of modding and play again and again i never chose stormcloak ,cuz the begining Todd make u hate empire i knew he up to smthing
Kevin Nash same, out of all of the characters in the game I think Balgruuf is not only the best candidate, but also really the only reasonable one. All of the other Jarls have weaknesses that you don’t want to see in high king, and many of the non-Jarl characters are in the same boat, like being too old or too weak willed.
@@ethanhess8230 I like Balgruuf, but he would be a bad choice for High King either. He can't make up his mind without some arrogant prick (Proventus) and bossy bitch (Irileth). All he would do is depending on others to make choices for him.
Jizzy G I don't think that's a bad thing. He makes his own choices and isn't pulled one way or the other by advisors. The fact he is intelligent enough to hear opinions from others and make his decision only AFTER hearing multiple angles and considering the options, that's a far better trait than being impulsive or selfish with decisions, especially as a king.
I think the Dragonborn should unite what's left of the Empire and the remainder of the Stormcloaks into one force along with any allies the Dragonborn has (mages from Winterhold, if the Dragonborn leads the Dark Brotherhood, bring them too, also if they sided with either the Blades or let Pathummax live, that would be a good one!). Imagine the Dragonborn leading all of these people, dragons, or whomever against the Thalmor! They wouldn't stand a chance. Then at the end of at all, have the option of becoming Emperor. At least, the Dragonborn would be strong with the people in his/her mind.The Dragonborn should as hell wouldn't bend knee to ANYONE!
Actually no, unless the Dragonborn is a descendant of Tiber Septim, or somehow Martin conceived a child before becoming Emporer, they do not have any legitimate claim as the Emporer/Empress.
Inconsistently lore-wise, the last Dragonborn is supposedly canonically powerful enough to decimate whole armies without breaking a sweat, since he/she is literally going through the process of becoming a god. The Dominion’s birth rate is really low, so their armies haven’t replenished very much since the war. The power of Lorkhan through the Numidium was enough to bring the elves to their knees in just a few hours in the past, and Lorkhan just so happens to be the god that the last Dragonborn is mantling. With the help of just a few legions, the last Dragonborn could potentially conquer all of Tamriel, just like Tiber Septim did. Tiber Septim was Dragonborn, but he wasn’t the last Dragonborn and was also not as gifted in the voice. Supposing the dragonborn decides to fight the dominion, they’ll be screwed.
@@fenrisvermundr2516 The Dragonborn is not a descendent of Tibet Septim. The Dragonborn is an inheriter of the old magics. Your blood has nothing to do with it. What is required however is exposure to the old magics which happens at your execution.
If you beat the civil war quest line with the Stormcloaks every npc who is neutral will tell you “yeah man shit sucks with the Stormcloak in charge now”
Ulfric's lack of foresight shows at the end of the Civil War quest-line if you side with him. He thinks the Empire is beaten and now he can focus on the Aldmeri Dominion. Plz correct me if I am wrong but wasn't the Imperial Force sent to Skyrim like 1 Legion out of 20 or something like that. He has now made Skyrim an enemy of the Empire and they WILL HAVE TO deal with them as such. So if they struggled this much against the force sent to Skyrim, how could they hope to beat the Empire AND the Dominion. Like seriously, remove the dragonborn from the equation and what chances does Ulfric really have. Plus his xenophobic tendencies will definitely alienate potential allies. Argonians - Nope. Dark Elves - Nope. High Elves - LOL. Orcs - who knows with them. Imperials - LOL, Bsomer - Dominion, Khajiit - Dominion. That leaves the Bretons - Whose political landscape is something else entirely, and The Redguards - But they might not be so keen to enter another alliance with their fellow men after the whole Empire thing.
Yeah, but now he has all Skyrim's resources behind his back, all the cities AND forts. If the Empire wants to take Skyrim back they would have to do so by force, as in, marching through Pale Pass (which is blocked by an avalanche and is easily defended). During the Civil War they had half of Skyrim helping them and Tullius was recruiting the locals to fill his ranks, it was far beyond just a "legion" by the time of the game. Titus Mede (or whoever controls that shitty Empire back home) ain't Tiber Septim. If Ulfric wins, Skyrim stays independent. There is no "Dark Elves" to do alliances anymore anyway, so that point is invalid as Morrowind is a wasteland by this point. The Imperials would not attack again as that would only drain Cyrodill's resources, so a mutual cease fire is not that difficult at least. And the redguards might ally themselves with Ulfric no problem, Hammerfell don't have any beef with Skyrim as far as I know.
@@johnwill4135 Let's remember that the main enemy here is the Aldmeri Dominion, not the Empire. If Ulfric wins, the best case scenario is a cease fire with the Empire they just rebelled against. But no trust means no alliance. Also Skyrim's resources aren't as abundant as you are making them sound. They just went through a civil war. They NEED to rebuild, and unify. Because not all citizens will be on board Ulfric's crusade. So Skyrim needs time. And any time they have is time the Empire also gets. They can now defend they home better, maybe. But the Pale Pass is not impenetrable. Especially when your opponent could be magic using elves which the nords hating of magic puts them at a disadvantage. The Dark Elves are broken, yes but not out. This would be the perfect time to recruit them to your side, when they down. Ulfric has less chance to recruit them than the Empire. But let's remove them as well from the equation then. The force Tullius had to work with probably couldn't match one legion. Because it lacked experience and discipline. Most were untrained farmers and ordinary citizens. The same as at least half of Ulfric's current force. How many soldiers has he lost at this point because of his rebellion. So in summary, Ulfric's best bet is that the Empire doesn't hold a grudge and attack with full intent. That means that he is the lesser option. He even notes something like this himself when you are at the Dark Brotherhood questline to kill the cousin at the wedding and also at the finale of the civil war. He holds off attacking because it would have the empire up in arms. But the worst part is what stops the Dominion from crushing a weakened Skyrim. The empire can't, shouldn't, and won't intervene if the elves attack. And Skyrim CAN'T beat the Dominion currently, they ain't no hammerfell.
Good points, it's good to see imperial arguments that don't include "racism111!", well done. So let's get going. Skyrim needs to rebuild, it's true, but it will not take like, five, ten or thirty years to do so like the Dominion and Cyrodiil. The rebellion just begun as Torygg was just killed, it's not like they are fighting for years or centuries. In fact, as I pointed out, Cyrodiil is the one that needs to rebuild the most as all it's southern cities got sacked by the Thalmor, not Skyrim. Morrowind don't have any beef with Skyrim, mate. Raven Rock was given to them by a High King of Skyrim, Ulfric's father allows them to live in Windhelm and more. At worst they would agree to a trade agreement, even if it's minimal. The Empire on the other hand, what does the Mede Dynasty do for Morrowind? Yeah, nothing. Now on the Empire invading Skyrim thing. Both the nords and the imperials took losses in the Great War, but just Cyrodiil's cities got sacked and it's population killed, which means that they have, AT BEST, the same amounts of men that Skyrim does. Now, IF the Empire throws everything they got at Pale Pass they COULD score a victory there, but even that I'm not sure. Ulfric has the Thu'um, it's the most simple thing to create another avalanche by using that on the pass, he's on another level entirely. I stick to my point that the Empire cannot attack Skyrim so easily as you put it, that's ridiculous. And that's if they choose to do a full scale assault, because you know, there's a bunch of angry elves on the other side of you empire just waiting to strike? Ulfric said that on the Dark Brotherhood quest because by that point the Empire had a foothold on Skyrim, so invading it it's more managable (and even then they were blocked in Pale Pass by an avalanche, lol). If he has all the cities and forts under Stormcloak control, it's another thing entirely. "They ain't no hammerfell." I agree. Because Skyrim >>> Hammerfell. Hammerfell it's on the backyard of Summerset Isle, divided forever by two factions by culture and politics (Crowns and Forebears), and Skyrim is on the other side of the continent. If you know even the simplest thing about warfare you would know that what holds an army together is SUPPLIES. It's not on the White-Gold Concordant that the Dominion can march it's army through Cyrodiil. In fact, they are being held in check on the southern borders just by some imperial legions, mate. Going by land to Skyrim? Yeah, good luck with that. Going by sea? Where? On the pirate's infested western sea or by the Sea of Ghosts? I bid you welcome, bitches. That's so easy to cut off it's not even funny, Skyrim is basically a frozen wasteland with dragons, trolls and undead wandering the land. They can't invade it, can't take it, can't hold it even in their deep elven dreams. And then you put the Dragonborn on the whole thing, done. He's the protector of Skyrim (It's in the Main Quest to oppose the Thalmor). He alone can take on the Thalmor with Bend Will, Storm Call and etc. Would love to know what you think about those, cheers.
@@johnwill4135 The great war was about 25 years ago by the time of Skyrim. Since the empire is still engaged in a cold war of sorts with the Dominion, replenishing their legions would be a top priority. So in essence they have had time to rebuild. For more info on this topic, I can direct you to this video by FudgeMuppet: (How Strong is the empire really) czcams.com/video/FAN_pmxY_dU/video.html. I can concede on Morrowind not having beef with Skyrim, though if anything that might not take sides. I would like to remind you that forts in Skyrim aren't 100% but with time they can rebuild sure. Also Pale Pass isn't the only path into Skyrim. I could be wrong but isn't there supposed to be one near Bruma which would Riften side. Also what Ulfric would have just done would have been a coup. Not everyone is on board obviously so expecting his "reign" to go unapposed is wishful thinking. Heck his rebellion started from similar roots. And there is still the forsworn and bandit problem Skyrim has. Also you give Ulfric took much credit. He can't create an avalanche from windhelm's throne meaning he will need to be at the pale pass. Only a foolish commander goes to the frontlines. If he dies, its chaos. I don't which pirates you are thinking of but no pirates with common sense would attack a Dominion Armada. There's no hope of victory there. The Dominion wouldn't send one ship at a time when attacking because that's not how warfare works. Plus they already have all the reconnaissance they need, at least for the time being given the free reign they have had in skyrim. Heck they could even be sleeper agents. And if you look at the example of the dragon of the North, Ysmir or Talos (to our non-nordic brethren), clearly distance, travel, supply lines are all part of war and not instant deal breakers. Your move.
Ulfric's short-sightedness is one of the most dangerous threats to Skyrim. So caught up in his "honor" and lust for power that he can't see that his actions play right into the hands of the Thalmer.
I love how even if you execute him, he’s literally the only one that gives you anything more than a fucking “Thanks, lol” for saving the fucking universe
I always join the Imperials. Don’t get me wrong, I was pretty salty at first when they tried to kill me, but I just love the feel of it. The imperials were based off of Romans, and Rome’s culture is insanely interesting to me.
@@nino1397 though given the course of canon. DB would beg to differ. Even then AD can't invade skyrim due to its harsh climate. Who knew Skyrim's cruel weather could be such an advantage for either a Farmer's revolution, or a dead Empire.
Let's not forget that the Empire didnt really enforced the talos ban as long as it was kept private. But no, the stormcloacks couldnt see that, Ulfric in this matter is too..... Angry, too irrational to see that the empire is trying to play the long game. While both the dominion and the empire suffered similar loss it's been what 30 or so years since the great war ? That's more than enough to repopulate and rebuild the Empire.
@@elephystry I'd say he was more about disliking the fanatism if anything. If the stormcloaks worshipped talos secretly like anyone with brains the entire war won't even occur
@PythonFalls a reminder that there weren't any thalmor agents around before Ulfric started shit up in markarth and there wouldn't be any had he not done it,as righteous as his cause may be his actions are not making things any better
@PythonFalls those nothing wrong actions caused the thalmor to come kicking into skyrim to enfore their rules, the Jarl of Markarth even chose to side with the Empire because he threatened the safety of his people. if that isn't wrong for you guys i don't know what ever will be. besides you can't just catch someone openly without evidence,if you worship them openly like the morons who call themselves stormcloaks no wonder you get caught
IMO Ulfric, like, dropping all the joking tones and such about supporting one side or another, is a great general. And by that what I mean is, he can inspire his armies. Say what you will about the Stormcloaks, but they are FULLY devoted to their cause. The entirely believe that their cause is right and just, which is impressive and a good quality. But what Ulfric is NOT...is a good politician. Whether or not he's a good tactician is another matter, because it's hard to say since the questline in the game is kinda bland and both sides seem equally terrible. What I mean though, is that Ulfric is only interested in driving out the Thalmor and Empire, while installing Jarls that are on his side, but not necessarily good ones, let alone actually providing for the needs of Skyrim. Said other Jarls might only be in it for themselves (see: the Silver-Bloods), or only doing it because they see the tide turning. Now again the Empire side literally does the same thing, which is again an issue of the game mechanics, but if anything is proves both sides are equally shitty at trying to actually BE rulers anymore, but it doesn't excuse it at all though either. Even so, just within Windhelm itself, Ulfric allows blatant discrimination against the Argonian and Dunmer populations of his city, instead of helping them out of their bad situation. Hell he could even help them out and maybe use that to encourage alliances with Morrowind and Black Marsh, suggesting a new Ebonheart Pact, to curve the rising tide of the Dominion, three kingdoms/countries stronger together, than they are apart. Or just something. Cuz none of that exists in the game unfortunately. So to answer your question: I agree. Ulfric should die, not for religious reasons or ethics or anything else, but merely because IMO he's doing more harm to Skyrim, even as he believes he's doing right. Honestly I agree with a lot of what he and the Stormcloaks say and believe: The Empire is old and dying, the Thalmor and Dominion cannot be trusted, religious freedom is important (I seriously doubt that the Dominion is gonna stop with JUST the worship of Talos) and so on. His biggest flaw is that he thinks he's the one who should rule Skyrim and kick out everyone else, instead of making trying to find allies where he can find them, not to mention it's better to have the 'Devil you know', as in the Empire, versus standing against the Dominion alone.
Interesting. Finally someone who can give a normal reason for wanting Ulfric dead. I salute you. Now onwards though. While Ulfric allows discrimination in his city, lets have a real look at this issue. A lot of people seem to think that the Stormcloaks are the only racist faction in Tamriel. Uuuh.... Every race, and yes I mean every race thinks they are the best race that walks Tamriel. The Nords believe that they should rule over their own lands instead of foreigners who don't know and don't care about Nordic culture and traditions. While the Argonians and Dunmer are treated poorly in Windhelm, it is clear that they don't do anything to make it better for themselves. A Dunmer follower even states this himself. They just complain and do nothing to make things better. The entire discussion if they should help with the rebellion, I believe that they should. They have called Windhelm home for many years now, yet when their home needs them, they say that it is not their fight. Ulfric and the Jarls that came before him didn't have to take the refugees in. Yet they did. The foreign population in Windhelm is bigger than the entirity of these races in all of the Empire controlled cities. Ulfric isn't such a bad guy, especially if we compare it to other factions. Lets have a look at the Empire. The faction that conquered the world with blood and death, and basically forced every living being on Tamriel to their knees because the Imperials believe it is their right to rule over all. Why should the Empire control Skyrim? The only real reason you get is because Skyrim has always been part of the Empire. The only reason that the Thalmor are worse than the Empire is because the Thalmor want to eridicate all the humans on earth, while the Empire just wants them as servants. The Empire and the Thalmor are probably the most racist factions on the continent. And Ulfric throwing out alliances is false. While I agree that Ulfric should have allied with the Dunmer instantly when he came to power and make friends with the Great Houses, that is more an oversight of Bethesda than of Ulfric. The entire civil war hasn't been completed, while a Dunmer embassy in Windhelm would have been a pretty logical idea. But even in-game Ulfric and Galmar have a discussion over asking aid of the Breton kingdoms, who will not send support. The Bretons not being involved in the civil war speaks loud and clear. The kingdoms of High Rock should bt any means join the Empire, they are a part of it after all. They should be 'forced' in the war. Yet they do nothing. They are keeping their options open. They refuse to join their Empire in times of war, that is... well, treason. The human alliance is certainly an option, and in my opinion a waaay better option than the crumbeling Empire.
I agree with most of what you say but I have to disagree with the thing about the Bretons. No province of the Empire really has an own army, they have most of their soldiers in the imperial army. Many Bretons and even many Nords fight for the Empire, just not in Skyrim but instead are stationed at the border to the Aldmeri Dominion. Most people fighting in Skyrim are either veterans or commoners but not trained soldiers.
@@lukasosterloher9105 Some actually do. In fact, most provinces did. Morrowind was an exeption to this rule. Especially High Rock, which is made up of multiple kingdoms, barony's etc., High Rock has a huge standing army if you manage to combine all those forses (good luck with that one tho). And not a single one came down to join.
Those armies you mentioned cant leave because if they do, the other armies will just take the kingdom whose armie left for Skyrim. Every province does have a standing army yes, but those armies are still Empire legions and most of their soldiers are currently stationed at the border to the Dominion. The army in High Rock is needed there in order to keep the situation there under control because the last thing the Empire need at the moment is that High Rock decides to become independent.
@@lukasosterloher9105 The High Rock standing army is not Legion. They can be called up to serve as Legionaires, but the Breton Kings have their own armies that serve under them, not the Emperor. The Emperor commands the Kings, the Kings command the armies. If the Kings decide to go to war, the armies follow. If the Kings decide to stay, the armies stay, no matter what the Empire says. Of course the Legionaires stationed in High Rock serve the Empire, but the Knightly orders and standing armies of the Kings are a different deal.
We'll drive out the Storm cloaks and restore what we own, With our blood and our steel we'll take back our home, Down with Ulfric!! The killer of Kings, On the day of your death we'll drink and we'll sing!!
We'll drive out the empire from this land that we own With out blood and our steel we will take back our home All hail to Ulfric, you are the High King! In your great honor we drink and we sing! We're the children of Skyrim and we'll fight all our lives, and when Sovngarde beckons, everyone of us dies.
@PythonFalls What are you doing here. You can't even spell Sovngarde correctly. By the way we are trying to do our part in tamriel. Sovngarde does not concern us.
While I hate the Thalmor more, I do not like Ulfric. When I side with the Imperials, I still kill every Thalmor on sight, and I NEVER offer Ulfric the dignity of being killed by the Dragonborn. He dies, but not by my hand. I. Cannot. Stand him.
mitchan3763 or just murder all the thalmor burn their bodies and use their blood to forge a blade stronger than wuuthrad then make your own army using mods to kill more thalmor it sounds great
@@leepreston9637 which is pretty shitty as a tradition. hey,you might be better than me at negotiating,politics and everything else,but i challenge you to a duel. a duel you can't win,but it's according to traditions so i am king now
When I started Skyrim, I always chose Stormcloaks, then I discovered the game's huge lore, and realized that Empire was the best solution for Skyrim, is that awareness or treason? I don't know.. All I know is.. SKYRIM BELONGS TO THE NORDS!!
The moment I first played skyrim I seen ulfric as a threat; I'm mad the Stormcloaks where blue, I felt the need to defeat Ulfric I just don't like him, empire forever
@@theprobigdady5656 what? Really dude pay the attention to the lore. Titus mede II only 3 years in power, was attacked by the AD that was preparing for the war for almost a century and have a powerful daedric artifact Titus manage to do the impossible thing survive not glorious but still a magnificent task given his situation and not only survive but manage to make a deal to buy to the empire to recover and reorganize. In the meantime ulfric was captured ( surrendered instead of dying in battle very glorious nord hypocrisy) and betraying the empire by telling the thalmor how to enter the imperial city, really ulfric is the hero and the emperor a coward? How can you come to that disturbed conclusion do you read the lore or just hear the ulfric speech( that oblivious make him the most brilliant person on earth and the emperor a coward) it's disgusting really to see the injustice committed to the lore on this game.
This one of the greatest most underrated stories in a game. At the beginning I thought I was in the right support a rebellion but as the story unfolded I questioned whether I had made the right choice. But I think the question I ultimately asked myself was would I rather live on my knees or die on my feet.
There is no way you can say the Empire is doing the right thing. If Tullius wanted a united Skyrim, then let the Nords rule themselves and ally yourself with them. Assimilating an entire populous into your culture is wrong on every level. Not to mention that at the beginning of the game, Tullius is about to execute you, an innocent person, without a trial. The Empire is clearly and comically evil in Skyrim.
@@macggnore The Empire is not comically evil they are absolutely doing the right thing. You want perfection where it doesn't exist. If the Nords wanted an independent Skyrim Ulfric would not have and should not have killed Torygg, a sympathizer to his cause, through diplomacy he would have gotten independence instead he got people killed and killed people himself (he doesn't take dissent lightly killing those who do not support him), he ruined the chances of Talos worship (banning it was never enforced until Ulfric made a stink about it and the Dominion started to crack down further), he is, according to a Thalmor dossier, a Thalmor asset so he is being used by the Aldmeri Dominion to harm Skyrim, half the population of Skyrim is against him because he killed Torygg using a Thu'um which is seen as dishonorable to some, no, assimilating an entire population into your own culture is not wrong: 1). Every culture has been assimilated to some degree or another even in the USA. People CHOOSE to come here and assimilate as with many nations. You have to or the country can no longer function if they just live there but do not accept the values. 2). There is no evidence that I have seen that leads me to believe the Empire force-ably assimilated the Nords into their culture or others for that matter. The provinces were unified and up until now that was not a problem. Supporters of the Empire like the Empire and when the Nords win they knock things over in a drunken stupor, get loud and make quality of life hard for some of the locals. Assimilation is not bad (unless it is forced) Skyrim was either conquered or chose to assimilate and either way it benefits being part of the Empire, who Tulius admits, is regaining its strength to rebel against the Dominion. Tulius himself even said he would settle in Skyrim in his later years he respects the Nords for their patriotism and fiery spirit. Ulfric actively SEGREGATES his city with Dunmer and Argonians at the very bottom and his city looks like shit. I'd say that's worse than any assimilation of a populace that for the most part, probably chose to assimilate and if not, many generations have passed where life to them is normal. Oh, and Tulius was not about to execute you that was one Commander who made the decision. If you recall, Hadvar didn't want to kill you and tried to protect you during Alduin's attack. Tulius also screams "Protect the citizens" when Alduin attacks Helgen. Lastly, let's not pretend Ulfric would have given them a fair trial either his hot headedness almost got him and his followers killed at the start of the game. For all intents and purposes, Tulius and by proxy, the Empire, won. In the short time Tulius and his legion were there they routed, ambushed, and captured Ulfric. Game, set, match. Alduin was sheer coincidence. Ulfric is an asset to the Dominion meaning his victory is the Dominion's victory. Tulius even says that when you kill him "Don't you understand? This is what they want." I'm all for independence but Ulfric is not in the right on this one. Especially since he was willing to compromise diplomacy at the peace treaty because he didn't get everything he wanted. Skyrim was apart of the Empire for years he could have waited until after the Aldmeri Dominion was defeated, in good graces with the Empire working as an ally with them much like the other provinces and earned independence that way instead he compromised his own cause. Plus we have no way of knowing if the other provinces would back him up against the Aldmeri Dominion if he was high king since no one knows, trusts or likes him. He alienated the Empire and now Skyrim is on its own. If they back him up it's ONLY because they don't want the Dominion to gain more power but the Talos worshipers who died because they were discovered by the Thalmor when Ulfric dropped the ball and revealed the ban was not enforced is ENTIRELY on Ulfric. Oh and he attacks Whiterun,a neutral city, for no reason other than to take it over when the Empire was ready to use diplomacy plus Ulfric regrets what he did in the game when you kill him and talk to him in Sovengarde.
@@TheUnseenPath You're gaslighting to make the Empire seem like the virtuous ones. Ulfric challenged Torygg fair and square... and Torygg accepted. Torygg lost. There is no punishment that needs to be dealt. That was part of the traditions that Ulfric wanted to preserve. Talos worshipping was banned by the Empire. FULL STOP. It wasn't anybody else's fault aside from the Empire. I don't care what excuse they have, it was banned because of them. The Empire wants to assimilate every culture and homogenize the entire world. Ulfric just wants the Nords to keep their identity and not be ruled by a 1 world government that resides in a different country. Ulfric attacks Whiterun because Whiterun is the center of Skyrim and their Jarl chose to side with the Empire. Balgruuf made this decision simply because he thought it was the winning side. He was a spineless coward who doesn't deserve to govern anything. There is no diplomacy to be had when 1 side wants to govern themselves and the other wants to dominate and assimilate you. Why should Ulfric compromise? It's not the Empire's country to begin with-- they should get absolutely nothing and go back to their own land. "I'm all for independence..." no you're not. You think the Empire is right to come in and rule a land that isn't theirs. If the Empire truly wanted to unite Skyrim against the Dominion, they should respect the culture and traditions of the Nords while aiming to ALLY THEMSELVES WITH THEM, not rule them. Oh, and it definitely was Tulius that sentences you to die at the beginning of the game. He's standing right there while people are being executed and does absolutely nothing to stand up for you.
Skyrim’s independence isn’t a bad cause... but it is poorly timed. The empire needs all of its strength to fight back the thalmor (which I believe they are planning to do after they rebuild their strength). Skyrim’s independence can be discussed/fought over after the larger threat of the thalmor are dealt with. Also he’s a bit of a racist so... yea he doesn’t have my vote.
Jacob Hartman Yeah, the xenophobic aspect of the Stormcloak side is what really turned me off to their cause, all lore- and logic-based war-related arguments aside. I see a lot of their supporters as really stupid, racist brutes who would use any opportunity provided to better themselves and their station versus help their own people. Considering their whole cause is basically headlined as being for THE PEOPLE, this comes off as EXTREMELY hypocritical to me and leaves a bad taste in my mouth. So, just...no thanks.
@@oskorinn284 i dont know why everyone thinks the dragonborne is a god , yea ur strong af but this id a war , ur not gonna stop an entire country from invading , ur strongest ability is yo summon one dragon that's it , even shitty whiterun guards managed to kill one
since I played oblivion i’ve liked dark elves because of how they look lol so when I heard someone was hating on my fav race I joined up with the legion in a second
Is it me or Rolff and Angrenor were actually right to suspect the dark elves were on the Imperial side? If you go to the Cornerclub I think, and go up the stairs, you'll find an Imperial flag and Imperial heavy armour.
@@octavianpopescu4776 i don't think this is clearly a sign that he is a imperial spy but rather just a imperial sympathizer who wants the cosmopolitan empire to do something to the situation in windhelm.
No. The Thalmor want the war to continue the war ending means empire and skrim if independent can stop wasting resources and plan against the dominion. If the rebellion is successful the Thalmor now have two highly motivated enemies to fight off.
> You are exiled son of High Elven royalty, your father was envy of your Auriel blessing > After Helgen you go to Falkreach to gain gold on bandits and obtain Masque of Clavicus Vile. You are using it every time you serve as Dragonborn > You save the world by destroying Alduin, vile son of Auriel (if you don't know, Akatosh doesn't exist, Akatosh is just Auriel and Shor combined as imperial lie) > You become Vampire Lord and defeat Harkon > You gain Bend Will and beat Miraak > You help Stormcloak > You reveal yourself without a masque > You betray Stormcloak by using Bend Will on Ulfrik and become High Tyrant of Skyrim > You act like a villain, drink blood from your subjects and support Thalmor > You say to Serana that she must kill you in public disguised as "Real Dragonborn" with Masque of Clavicus Vile > You die by a spell that looks like a Shout, entire Skyrim unite to fight against Thalmor that "ruined the land by lying about being a Dragonborn" > Just as planned
@@indrickboreale7381 akatosh does exist tough, this is nirn not earth, words and symbols have tangible powers in this mythopoeic world thus akatosh is no mere white lie thrown away for a technicalitie but a litteral merging of two deity spheres of influences
Kill Ulfric for feeding Alduin (which he only realises when you meet him after he's dead). AND kill the Emperor. Because he paid the Dark Brotherhood to do it so he'd be a martyr & the new & improved Emperor can kick Hell out of the Thalmor. Rexus! The items...
In real life i couldnt care which ever faction someone chooses, as i’ve completed both, but i personally use the nord race more than others, so i like to join the storm cloaks. Occasionally i use the imperial race, and therefore join the imperials. But either way the only thing that matters is having fun in skyrim.
The Thalmor don't help the Stormcloaks in any way because they don't want him to win. The Thalmor only want the two sides to keep on fighting. In fact, the Stormcloaks winning would screw the Thalmor, because they could no longer run around Skyrim arresting people for Talos worship.
@@hydrocannons7573 But the Storm cloaks winning means that the Empire won't be in Skyrim anymore. Seeing that the only thing that's keeping the Thalmor from invading Skyrim is the White-Gold Concordat. With the empire influence and army in Skyrim, this gives the Thalmor a chance from invading Skyrim. If the Empire itself couldn't withstand the Thalmores, what hope does Skyrim have?
@@IMTHEMOTHERFUCKINGMAILMAN The Redguards of Hammerfell beat the Thalmor by themselves when the Empire threw them under the bus at the end of the war, so Skyrim is not as hopeless against them as you think. Also, Skyrim can easily form an alliance with Hammerfell (who have no love for the Empire or the Dominion) and High Rock.
@@hydrocannons7573 the thalmor do help the stormcloaks it's in the ulfric dossier in the embassy. They help them enough so that they are equal to the empire but not too much so that they would win the civil war.
@@hydrocannons7573 agreed. Not to mention Cyrodill is blocked by imperials, so the Dominion *has* to invade by sea. No Sane person would ever invade skyrim by sea. Not to mention the ores in skyrim.
Many people never read in-game info, the Imperial forces in Skyrim are *not* the army, it's mostly local militia, the main forces are stuck clearing the mountain pass, so even if Ulfric by some miracle wins against local garrison, which is unlikely, soon enough the main Imperial army will arrive and his exhausted and diminished forces would easily lose anyway.
@@walterlems402 The note is found at Fort Neugrad it is were the called the Imperial missive / Stormcloak missive depending on which side you're on in the Civil War. to give a answer your question the person is referring to the Stormcloak missive. this message makes it very clear even if Ulfric wins the Civil War he still going to lose because the full might of the Empire is going to invade Skyrim. Stormcloak missive: Lord Ulfric, Though we drove the Emperor's dogs from Fort Neugrad, they still nip at our heels. The chaos in Helgen is bad enough, but now I have word of a new Imperial force assembling in the south, ready to advance on our position as Pale Pass is clear. Send reinforcements, or all our gains will be for naught.
Assuming everyone who isn't part of your faction is with the enemy is ignorant. You believe that living your life is a crime, worthy of a painful death, if you aren't part of the Empire? That's what the Empire showed themselves to believe since they just assumed you and the horse thief should also be killed along with Ulfric because you were captured in the same vicinity as someone else.
@@TruOnyxfire Two years late but whatever. Both sides do it unfortunately that's the sad thing about war. And Hadvar does help you escape if you go with him. These are supposed to be people at the end of the day who have their own lives. It's not exactly black and white or red vs blue in this case.
@@ROMULUS8384 the thing is that tullius was rushing ulfrics execution because if you saw when you entered helgen the thalmor were already there and it’s common knowledge that the thalmor are funding the civil war so if they had waited to trial ulfric then the thalmor definitely would’ve made a move to recover him to continue the civil war
@@daviddavidson505 No, that was Ulfric, were it not for him the Imperials wouldn't rush the executions to kill Ulfric as fast as they could, were it not for Ulfric you would not get caught in an Imperial ambush, and even if you were, if not for Ulfric, you would at worst get thrown in jail. Ulfric is a traitor that causes nothing but trouble, the blame for the war and subsequently your execution (Mind you, it was an officer that ordered your execution, you were not on the list) which wouldn't happen were it not for him.
@@raiderfox7229 The incompetent officer of the empire was being directly overseen by General Tullius, who was personally present at the execution. He was easily within earshot of the discussion about the list and could have intervened. If Ulfric was his aim, he should have executed him immediately, rather than wasting time shooting runaway horse thieves and random travelers who got caught in the ambush. Better yet, Ulfric should have simply been killed at the ambush site, if the matter was so urgent. Further, if Ulfric was able to cause such panic and poor decision making in the imperial chain of command, then Ulfric is right about the weakness of the Empire, and the revocation of its right to rule over Skyrim is a fair claim for him to make. The Empire lost a war against the Thalmor, and gave them surrender terms which are intolerable to the Talos-worshipers of Skyrim. Neither the foreign Thalmor nor the defeated Empire have any rightful claim to the territory. If we are to also take into account the Thalmor's exploitation and fueling of the rebellion, then imperial intelligence is so shoddy that they don't even realize, or can't even stop, the Thalmor from conducting all sorts of subversive acts of espionage in imperial territory. If this is tolerated out of ignorance, the Empire is criminally incompetent and unfit to rule. If this is tolerated out of fear, the Empire is criminally weak and unfit to rule.
Honestly the whole reason I don't like Ulfric. I don't like him and I don't trust him. I'm not an imperial because I love the Empire and think it's perfect, I'm on the imperial side because the stormcloaks are lead by Ulfric Stormcloak, who I think is manipulative, selfish and a bad leader.
Because there were many other reasonable ways to fight back against the dominions growing influence but he picked the absolute worse way which has in turn aided the dominion in keeping skyrim under its thumb. In short his not sharpest sword in the chest but he gets an A for effort and a pass to sovngarde i suppose.
Aaron Brown He’s not straightforward with his people and as far as military leadership goes, if it weren’t for his lieutenant, he’d lose far more than he does. Not to mention he takes credit for all the wins despite the fact that the only reason he ever wins the Dragonborn but he acts like it was his amazing leadership and strength.
@@luxurious_lemon2736 kahjiits are part of the aldmer dominion due to something the thalmor took credit for and potentially didn't do anything to resolve which is sad to say the least, poor Kahjiits being tricked by the tall elves
Also Irish, to make one tiny correction about the population of Skyrim: Remember, many of the Nords are IN the Legion too. So the people we see back home are the ones 'left' behind. The more 'uneducated' ones since most of the actually strong, skilled, and most likely, smart, people all joined in with the Legion or are otherwise a part of the Empire elsewhere. Ergo, the majority of the remaining population being things like farmers, miners, and so on, makes a lot of sense.
Wow. Showing a lot of ignorance here aren't you. Being a farmer, miner, or other laborer does not mean a person is "uneducated" (which is just a modern, pc way of telling someone that you think they're stupid and need to shut up). If you ever actually talk to people who hold these jobs you will find that they are smarter than you think and have a different way of looking at the world because they live in a different manner. It is very foolish to assume that just because these Nords didn't join the empire that wants to let an outside force control them, that they are stupid or should be ignored.
Uhm....yes, that is a very true thing, for real life. And in real life, you'd have a point. But this isn't real life, and there's very big difference between real life and fiction. There's very little to no evidence (primarily because I doubt that the game-devs thought about it) to show that Skyrim has much of an education system beyond people teaching their kids to read. Above that, what higher education that exists still appears to be primarily for mages and the upper class, who probably were tutored, and how many upper class homes and mages tend to have lots of books. But aside of that, there appears to be a very low education level on the whole. As I said, many of the more talented, strong, and probably educated Nords are in the Legions. Hell, look no further than after you kill your first dragon. A guard says to another guard, "There were no dragons back then, idiot!", referring to the time of Tiber Septim. And in fact, there WERE. Yes, I know that's only one example, but I feel it is indicative of the misunderstanding and misinformation that might plague the population of Skyrim that's still there. Even if they aren't as uneducated on the whole as you say, it also doesn't mean their mindset is right. I seriously doubt they were told the whole story about the Great War, beyond Imperial propaganda or the scattered stories told by returning soldiers. So to many Nords, it could be that one day they were told the war was over, then the next, suddenly all this Altmer in armor started walking around telling people they could no longer worship Talos, all because people at the top made a treaty that the people had no idea about. Balgruuf even states his frustration about how the treaty was signed without the Jarls even being asked their thoughts on it.
When I first played Skyrim, I always sided with the stormcloaks. But recently I have been leaning about the lore. And definitely suggest going the imperial way.
The weakened imperial legion decides to wait longer to gather strength. I think that's rather idiotic considering elves live for hundreds of years and are already more advanced in technology. Pretty stupid of them to bend the knee if you ask me
When I first played skyrim I sided with the Imperials. But after knowing that you end up killing the emporer, Elisf don't no jack about government and realising at the start of the game they were going to chop my head off for getting a free trip in the wagon I kinda changed my mind.
1. Create a personal division of warriors named Dragonborn's Fist 2. Kill elves while ignoring Imperial-Stormcloak civil warm 3. Prove yourself more by killing Thalmor and taking elven territory. 4. Choose who you'll serve... High King or Emperor? 5. Perform well as faction general. 6. Eliminate High King/Emperor and become ruler of the nation. 7. Go mad and commit elven genocide. 8. The dream no longer needs it dreamer... Enlightenment... Sanity. 9. Sanely destroy Aldmeri Dominion 10. Die in glorious battle. Countless Elven chieftains vs lone Dragonborn. CHIM... Apotheosis... Godhood.
Historically speaking, the devs are most likely to have something catastrophic happen to Skyrim within at most a few years after the plot ended, so that the next game doesn't have to factor in thousands of unknowable and contradictory player choices. The dragons might of been defeated, but Skyrim itself was doomed the moment the writers thought it was a good idea to have the player pick a side in it's little civil war.
I felt so bad when you attack Whiterun as a stormcloak. Jarl Balgruuf is nice and he respects you. That's why i once joined the Empire but, they are Dickheads. BUT i really like Balgruuf. there needs to be a option that Balgruuf side with the Stormcloaks. so sad,
Balgruuf is so likable because he's a lot of what Ulfric should be. Though, in some ways, Ulfric is a lot of what Balgruuf should be. They're the Yin and Yang of Nord Culture in Skyrim. Balgy is more concerned about his hold and his people than he is about the war. He's experiencing the devastation most of all between all the Jarls because White Run is Skyrim's focal point of Trade. It's the central Hub of the Country. So Balgruuf has a greater idea about the situation than the other Jarls. However, because he tries so hard to stay Neutral, it's what makes him seem weak. Balgruuf, like Ulfric, is aware of how horrible the Thalmor are and the effect they're having on Skyrim. Yet is unaware of the Empire's plan to one day strike back at the Aldmeri Dominion. Kept out of the loop for HIS own good, but it in turn isn't for the good of Skyrim. If the Empire could have found a way to spread that news like butter on hot toast throughout Skyrim then the Holds and their people would chill and start working together to get ready for that day. But Thalmor agents and poor decisions made by the Imperial Military are the fly in that batch of ointment. As well as any leaks in the system. Hired assassin's who kill messengers and snag the info, or thieves that do it without bloodshed. Or someone who gets drunk under the table and starts blabbing. As well as fiery patriots who bark anything close to that truth at condescending Thalmor agents in the area.
@Hlombe Mpuntsha Kind of? Though, let's face it, the Blades you have to work with in Skyrim suck. "We serve the Dragon Born. But kill Parthunax or we won't help you anymore, even if you don't want to kill him. Because we're here to serve you but not respect what you want...." Yeah, makes total sense. Fuck the Blades. Dragonborn should make a better organization. That kind of hypocrisy and short sighted thinking will only lead to that organization failing again.
There was nothing stopping Ulfric from just creating an army and enacting guerilla warfare on the Thalmor and protecting shrines with the Imperials willingly turning a blind eye to Thalmor fights. It wouldve set the stage for the 2nd Great War, had Imperials changing uniforms and arguing about helping their comrades but, being stuck in politics and Cyrodiil still regrouping. Man should have never fought man. I would argue that Reachmen ownership of the Reach was immensely more peaceful and fair than Stormcloaks.
I've been reading a lot of (ingame) books and getting a feel for the history... And if you ask me, the *Emperor Himself* is not only an ally of but is actually _an asset_ of the *Thalmor* directly!! (0_0) My case: The Thalmor made their demands against the Empire through a political emissary allegedly hoping to avoid a war in the first place... The Emperor is said to have refused to bow to the demands of the elves (such as banning of Talos worship)... but according to written accounts, the Thalmor already anticipated this rejection (...curious...), where they turned over their cart (that was allegedly filled with diplomatic "gifts") and dumped it on the floor - revealing over a hundred severed heads of former Blade agents... The Great War begins in earnest - and many end up dying and/or making a permanent move to Sovngarde... but the Emperor himself is never killed (long story short - curious events transpiring)... And finally, after both sides are exhausted and suffering from major war fatigue - what happens? ...The White-Gold Concordat is signed... and? *The Thalmor get exactly what they asked for in the first place!* So - you're telling me a war was fought _to a stalemate_ and then the Empire just gives in to the very demands it went to war over in the first place _without blinking an eye_ at all??? (0_0) Moreover, one cannot say this makes a lot of tactical sense either... the Thalmor are spread thin and are fighting a war on multiple fronts as well... Hammerfall *refused* to sign the treaty along with the rest of the Empire - and they have managed to push the Thalmor back... Why is it so hard to imagine Skyrim doing the same on it's own? Or perhaps in an alliance with Hammerfall and others? ...What really sucks the most though (IMHO), is how both sides seem to have very valid arguments and intentions that are in the right places! Everybody hates the Thalmor... But one side is ready to fight them directly, and the other side appears to be bidding it's time... In this manner, it's the Empire itself that appears (and is evidenced) to be very complicit in Thalmor operations, turning a blind eye to it's own citizens being dragged off in the night to be tortured and likely to never be seen again... All arguments made by Imperial Apologists seem like propaganda when it's *your* loved ones being dragged off in the night to be tortured by foreigners, for no other reason other than their practice of the local religion that's been around for centuries... Either every political adviser in the Empire went brain-dead (i.e. feigning ignorance over what kind of turmoil this would thrust the Empire in), or... there are Thalmor infiltrators within the Empire... Infiltrators who _knew_ the Concordat would never be signed without a war, and thus not only allowed this war to take place but _orchestrated it_ so that the lives subsequently lost would be used as a bargaining chip for a "temporary peace" that would have never been accepted otherwise... Ulfric isn't the messiah - and he's made his share of mistakes... But an Imperial-Conquered Skyrim would be weaker over-all and would eventually begin to lose it's national identity... At which case - the Thalmor will have easy pickings over the Empire they infiltrated through deceit and cunning... Just food for thought :-D It IS interesting and funny to view how other people view the Skyrim Civil War situation... I wonder if it parallels to real life? ;-P
But if the emperor *is* as such trying so hard to handle Tamriel over to the Thalmor, why would he literally kill himself in order to put forth a stronger sense of revolt in his fellow men? I don't see the decision for the Concordat as a blunder at all, because unlike the Dominion, Tamriel is a vastly varied place. Argonians, humans and orcs, all these races reproduce at rates that make elves look like turtles. Any war between the Empire and the Dominion that ends with a temporary peace treaty is inevitably going to lead to a final human victory. Because 40 years from now, there will be around 9 times more humans than before, but as long as elves go, they're likely to still be in the same generation, with the exact same numbers they were before. What regions like Skyrim and Hammerfall are doing with their pointless civil wars that only end up killing nords, redguards and imperials is wasting the advantage Titus bought at the cost of his own life.
@@mordirit8727 --- Firstly, thanks for reading my comment and adding to it. (^_^) TBH, I had to double check what you were talking about because I honestly didn't know - I've played several days worth of Skyrim (...not all at once, mind you), but as-of-yet I still haven't done any Dark Brotherhood quests or contracts (just not my personal style - and if it was possible to SUBDUE opponents rather than kill them, that's what I'd be doing) ... So the fact that Titus makes an appearance and you get to kill him (via the Dark Brotherhood quests) is completely new news to me! He (Titus) seems like an upright guy - he believes in what he's doing and what he's done... In and of itself, it's only speaking of his character, though, and _not_ about any alliances that took place behind closed doors... If my theory is accurate (and likely, we'll never know either way), this either makes him _more_ sinister in the sense that his betrayal of _his own empire_ is something he truly believes is necessary and just - or it means he's so far under some form of mind control that he's unaware of his actions and is more of a puppet on a string to the Thalmor... and oddly enough - the latter would explain his complicit nature in the assassination as well... ...However, if his submission to the Thalmor is exactly as it's been presented to us, and the signing of the White-Gold Concordat was truly his best effort to prevent more bloodshed... Then I have to say that the Thalmor deserve to rule all of Tamriel - because they outfoxed the Empire on all fronts... Skyrim: Birthplace of Talos, Home of the Warrior-Nords... They'd rather die than give up their hero-god... and would even view such a conflict as a holy crusade in and of itself. There would be HONOR in fighting such a battle - even if it meant Sovngarde... ...And if the Emperor and his advisers didn't realize this, and didn't think that allowing the Thalmor to kidnap civilians _of their own empire_ would result in a civil war... Then I'm sorry to say it - but they're a bunch of stupid schmucks - they deserve their empire to fall apart because they're not capable of holding it together... Either way... If it was me in this game, I'd stand with the independent Hammerfell *OR* Skyrim... The Empire just isn't what it used to be - and the last Emperor to be Dragonborn died with the last age, so who's to say that the gods themselves even approve of such an Empire anymore?? And who knows? If Ulfric and the Stormcloaks canonically win the civil war, the likelihood of a Hammerfell-Skyrim Alliance against the Thalmor is much less a possibility and much more of a guarantee... And with that kind of message being sent to the Thalmor (i.e. "We fight for our own Sovereignty - and not even the defeat of the Empire will bring us to our knees."), it's also just as likely that they'd back down themselves - as many High Elves only support the Thalmor out of fear, and if they ever loose their swagger... methinks the Summerset Isle itself would be having a civil war of it's own... :-]
@@NemaselsNeo I'll read the rest of your post later, but for now I'd like to point something out: You are assuming that the Empire has been completely outfoxed by the Aldmeri, and it's hard not to think of it that way, but if you look closely you can see that there are embers of a future insurgency against the elves already in Skyrim. My main point for not believing the empire and emperor are already under the Dominion's... well, dominion, is the Redguard rebellion. See, a little time before Skyrim started it's civil war, Hammerfell also rebelled against the Dominion and the Empire. After getting the peace treaty in Cyrodil, the elves were immediately challenged by Hammerfell. When this happened, they committed what is likely the biggest tactical mistake the Aldmeri have made in this entire story: they sent what survived of their army to take Hammerfell by force. Their tacticians believed it to be more than enough, and it *would* have been... But the Empire pulled the rug under them, in a rather nice way too: see, when Hammerfell decided not to accept the White-Gold Concordat, Titus decided to renounce Hammerfell as part of the Empire. This is *seen* as a weak minded move, but look at what actually ended up happening. With Hammerfell no longer being considered a part of the Empire, all redguards and other citizens of Hammerfell who had been part of the Imperial Legion up to that point were free to disband. Some chose to stay with the empire but what we hear is that a good number of them, bitter with what they saw as a betrayal from Titus, left the legion and went back home... Where now the Thalmor were dealing with a much stronger force than they had prepared for. This completely wrecked the plans the Aldmeri had for conquering Hammerfell, and they were eventually forced to accept the Treaty of Stros M'kai and retreat from Hammerfell to, so far, not yet return. If the Empire *was* so far under the Thalmor's boot, they'd never have taken an action that so clearly stabbed them in the back. Titus managed to, with one political move, save Hammerfell from conquest *and* free the province from the Thalmor altogether, without ever being questioned by the Thalmor... At the cost of his public image, since the redguard ended up thinking he abandoned them when, in reality, all he did was find the perfect way to free them. I tend to look at Titus as a tragic hero. When you look at the reports of the war and what took place after it, he seems like a man who is willing to always take the best possible road for the Empire, no matter what taking those paths ends up costing him. I guess you could say I have faith in him when he says his death will lead to a better chance in the war.
@@mordirit8727 --- Thanks, I appreciate it if you do! ...And I do understand that time is of the essence, and is arguably the most important resource we have to spend... So, I do hope we're both spending it wisely here. (^_^) I completely comprehend your perspective... and much of it is speculation - much like my own perspective appears to be... Honestly, we're both just viewing events and then positing what might be happening behind the scenes... Who knows the actual reason behind _why_ these events happened? Perhaps not even the writers themselves had thought about it - or perhaps laid it out neutrally (and unfinished) so that us players could choose which side sounded like the most righteous to us... Truth is, I wanted to like the Empire because I thought Hadvar was a badass and much more of a likable character than Ralof (other than the fact he just goes along with your execution until it's interrupted)... I even spent an entire time on one character being strongly allied with the Empire because it felt right at the time and was on par with what seemed right... ...But as I did more research and talked to characters, I ended up changing my mind... And starting a new character. Ulfric (IMHO) is just as equally the tragic hero as Titus - and feels obligated on behalf of his entire heritage to fight and win this war... otherwise, all who have fought and died thus far will all have been for naught. In his introduction dialogue (when you meet him the "first" time in Windhelm), he doesn't seem to be the arrogant, self-serving tyrant that so many make him out to be. He seems deeply troubled about this war - resistant to spark conflict that will cost lives unnecessarily - while his advisor, on the otherhand, is anxious to start bashing heads... I was able to dig up this portion of it: _"I fight for the men I've held in my arms, dying on foreign soil! I fight for their wives and children, whose names I heard whispered in their last breath. I fight for we few who did come home, only to find our country full of strangers wearing familiar faces. I fight for my people impoverished to pay the debts of an Empire too weak to rule them, yet brands them criminals for wanting to rule themselves! I fight so that all the fighting I've already done hasn't been for nothing! I fight... because I must."_ And! ...At the end of all this dialogue, he (and I'm paraphrasing here) admits that he'd rather step down and not have to take this role - that he'd rather this conflict not be here in the first place... but that he feels it is his duty to his fellow countrymen and his obligation to those who followed him and died to do the right thing - and for him, this is standing by his country and his countrymen... And sure - I'm taking him at his word here... but I suppose we're taking Titus at his word here as well, aren't we? ;-) IMHO... Truthfully... I hate this civil war. It seems unnecessary and completely fabricated from miscommunications (at best) and prideful arrogance (at worst)... The Empire *SHOULD* have looked the other way on as many Talos related "crimes" as was possible for them - even at the possibility of provoking the Thalmor... They should have made secret outreaches to the Nords (in particular), letting them know this "treaty" is only a means to an end and show them through their actions that they have no love for the Thalmor any more than the Nords do... The Talos-Worshipers *SHOULD* have just kept their worship secret - biding their time in the shadows as the Empire gives them hints that this "treaty" with the Thalmor is temporary and aiding them in whatever way they can in an official capacity if any of them are caught doing something as innocuous as worshiping Talos... But _Cest La Vie_ - and sometimes so is the works of fiction as well... But since we're being forced to take sides in this fictional conflict (more or less), I identify more with the Nords and with Ulfric - not because I'm a Nord myself, but I identify with their stance on the sovereignty of their people and their right to regulate their own affairs... And despite me not being a Nord myself (character-wise) - my actions have proven me as one of their countrymen, and they see me as such! ...Even when I'm playing as one of those damnable elves... ;-D
@@NemaselsNeo I'm sorry to say but I think your reading of Ulfric is a little bit naive. Yes, his speeches are quite heroic and good willed, specially the last one if you win the war with him. At the same time, Titus doesn't get any great speeches in Skyrim, only one very sad soliloquy as he waits for you to murder him for the Dark Brotherhood. But in politics one should always look towards results and ignore words as much as possible, for words hold no weight in the hands of politicians. For example, Ulfric *does* talk about wishing to avoid any sort of unnecessary bloodshed: those are his *words* . Then, when the time comes to fight Whiterun, Balgruf's adviser asks if he would face Ulfric Face to Face (like Ulfric did High King Thorig) and Balgruf states that he would be glad to, but believes that after proving himself against the King he would prefer to prove his army. So, if Ulfric was *truly* honest about fighting only when necessary and avoiding bloodshed wherever possible, you'd expect him not to care about showing people his army's power, and simply default to challenging Balgruf to a duel, saving thousands of nord lives in the process. What does Ulfric do? He never even considers a duel, and simply sends in the Stormcloack to face Whiterun. Because that's what Ulfric is. A lot of empty, beautiful words, but if you peek behind the curtain of what he says he's doing, there's just cowardice and hatred. If your reasoning for not trusting the Empire is the fear of them being influenced by the Thalmor, know this: Ulfric is the greatest ally the Thalmor have in Skyrim. Just read their report on him at the Embassy. Pretty much all of his actions in this war are a result of the torture the Thalmor imposed on him, and *everything* he does goes perfectly according to their plan. Thanks to Ulfric they have an excuse to have a much stronger justicar enforcing troupe in Skyrim than before, thanks to him an entire legion of the Empire can be lost (if you kill them by joining Ulfric), leading to a weakened Skyrim *and* Empire, and thanks to him even that segregated Skyrim can't really do much, because the way he rose to power makes sure nords are the only ones on his side, so even if he gets to sit in the High King's throne, nearly every Breton, Khajit, Argonian, Redguard, Altmer, Bosmer, Dunmer and Imperial in Skyrim will stand against him, guaranteeing more and more years of civil war. The fear the Thalmor had at the end of the Great War was that their losses were comparable to the Empire's, and humans reproduce much, *much* faster than elves do so it'd be likely that, in a few generations, the Empire could destroy the Aldmeri with fully renewed force. Ulfric Stormcloack is making great attempts at guaranteeing that this will never happen, and that the next scene of the Great War will be the genocide of mankind, just like the Thalmor, the people pulling his strings behind the scenes, wanted all along.
Ulfric is not a bad guy, but yes, he is misguided and thinking too much about revenge. As for a fair fight between him and Torygg, it was not. According to the witnesses at the duel, all Ulfric did was shout at Torygg then went right up to him when he was down and stabbed him. That is not an honorable act much less a duel. Even if the Thum is an ancient Nord art it's an art that most Nords don't know anymore so Stormcloak supporters don't have an argument to claim it had "honor".
@@axeldornelles5292 I'm talking in the context of his best intentions and love for Skyrim. Whether you or I like Ulfric or not is irrelevant only facts. FACT: He truly loves and wants what is best for Skyrim. But his methods, and such as you say a racist, I disagree with. I may choose the Empire, but despite Ulfric's flaws I can still recognize his good intentions even if I wholly disagree with him.
It is a fact that he is a racist. That FACT is the reason he is disliked by me. Also he doesn't want whats best for Skyrim, but for the nords in Skyrim only. He is a racist and a xenophobe and that is more than enough to make him a shitty person and, most definetely, a bad guy. There is no such thing as being a racist and not being a bad guy. If you're a racist, then you're bad and that's it. Fantasy or not, racists are shit and should be treated as such. Having him killed was a moment of joy in Skyrim.
@@axeldornelles5292 And just what is best for Skyrim? What this simple question means to you, to me and a whole bunch of other fans (and Ulfric) almost everyone has a different worldview. To Ulfric, wanting the best for Skyrim is EQUAL to what's best for the Nords. To him, it means the same thing. This is the characters' worldview and there are fans who share this view. Are Stormcloaks likely to be racist? Yes. But so can elves and I am an elf. Are ALL Stormcloaks racist? No. Just angry.
In my first play through I pick the imperials. After learning most of details I realize Ulfric didnt understand the full situationand the fact he didnt help the dark elves put that nail in coffin.
The Empire clearly did not realize that Ulfric can start a rebellion this size. If they do, they will execute him when they prisoned him. And it is the empire that betrayed its own people at the Markarth accident. The Empire can either refuse Ulfric's request for Talos worship or support Ulfric against Thalmor after they allow him to worship Talos. But no, they let Ulfric worship Talos in Markarth, then let Thalmor enter Skyrim to arrest its own faithful and Ulfric. And for those who blame Ulfric, remember that Thalmor never gives up on destroying the empire. It is not like without Ulfric, Thalmor will never enter Skyrim. No, they will because there are so many people who refuse to turn Talos down, Talmor can always catch one in Skyrim and demand to enter. That is why Stormcloaks had many ex-legionnaires because they are not just upset by white gold concordat. but the empire sold out very easily after they bleed for the empire without a second thought. And Skyrim under Empire control will have a puppet high queen ( I can't tell if any imperial jarl actually supports her like those who support Ulfric ) with half of its region under control by Legion, which will be summoned back and abandon Skyrim when the war resumes. As they abandon Morrow Wind during the oblivion crisis.
High king Torygg was raised by a vampire which is solitudes court wizard and a master illusionist. Shes the one pulling the strings she even has some audio lines that says jarl elisif is expandable and will be replaced in months. Im no elf hater but i only think its fair that skyrim and the nords deserve freedom of religion!
Another interesting detail is that the Empire only sent sent one legion to skyrim to put down the rebellion they keeping the rest of its Legions in Cyrodiil. Preparing to fighting Aldmeri Dominion
Does it matter who dies in the end when our Altmer overlords finally succeed in weakening the provinces enough to wipe out the beast races and take control of all others? Even the elder scrolls themselves can't stop the horrid Thalmor. I guess you could say the Thalmor are like... a feeble but deadly plague.
"When the empire surrendered to the Aldmeri Dominion, they shamed us all." Ulfric may be wrong, but that doesn't make the Empire right.The White-Gold Concordat should have never been signed, now they are weaker than ever because of it. Hammerfell rejected it, left the Empire, and drove out the Thalmor by themselves. Now imagine what the EMPIRE could do had they stuck it out a bit longer. They are not the great war time strategists you are making them out to be, and why the fall of the empire will be sooner than we think.
@@troller8680 I'm sure many Redguards in the Legion left the Empire to fight for their homeland, just like the Stormcloaks, but this doesn't change the fact that the Empire betrayed Hammerfell and fought against them after they refused to submit to the Dominion
@@thoruszwolf4153 It was actually an imperial general who was ordered to get back to Cyrodiil (in order to support main army in retaiking Imperial city) who left behind many soldiers on purpose (called them "invalids" and discharged them), and this soldiers later became a core of resistance against dominion. Also empire let Hammerfel go when it came to Concordat agreements and redguard refusal to give in and never attacked them. The only thing that empire did wrongly was concordat, but again, they didnt knew that Dominion was weakened too much because of war.
@@troller8680 The forces General Decianus left in hammerfell against direct orders from the Emperor, aided in pushing Arrenelyas forces from Skaven during the Great War, there is no indication that they continued to serve Hammerfell against the Empire. The Empire didn't let Hammerfell go so easily, just like in Skyrim, they fought back. Bjartur in a conversation with the redguard Ahtar says hammerfell fought both the Empire and the Dominion, and this also explains why the Imperial Legion wasn't able to aid in retaking Markarth, and only came back to Skyrim in 4e181, after Ulfric put down the native uprising in markarth
You may prove some good points but I still have to side with the Stormcloaks because well let’s be real here, the imperials tried to kill you which you later find out your Dragonborn and therefore I wouldn’t join the imperials because they almost killed the worlds hero.
i hate having to choose..i mean both sides want the dominion gone, and they want to protect their home, but one side is banishing worship, and the other side is hateful to elves, if i join the stormcloaks the people of whiterun will hate me, but if i join the empire the man who helped me escape helgen will feel betrayed...AAAAAAAAA MORAL DILEMA
I dont completely disagree, but what every imperial supporter fails to mention is, If the stromcloaks were to win, they arent as hopeless against the Elves as some might think. One reason for this is because the Stormcloaks have the Dragonborn on their side. Why am I assuming this? Well TES:V is canon and if the dragonborn were to side with the legion, there wouldn’t be an independant Skyrim and we wouldn’t be having this conversation. So if the Stormcloaks ever had to defend Skyrim against the aldmeri dom. It is safe to assume the Dragonborn has sided with them. The Dragonborn is insanely powerful. Having several dragons on his side, being the champion of “and therefore being supported by” almost any daedric prince. Being in command of almost al guilds in Skyrim, also dawnguard/vampires. The second big reason is religion. In the ES universe, the “gods” actually exist and actually influence things, unlike in our world. The more people believe in a certain divine, the more powerful and influential this divine becomes. The elves dont want to erase Talos worship without a reason. If nobody would believe in talos anymore, it would actually be like Talos didn’t exist. The power the nords would have with Talos on their side is what the elves fear. Nords fighting without knowing that sovngard awaits them are absolute trash. When discussing ES lore you have to stop thinking in real life military logic.
The Divines very rarely intervene in mortal affairs unlike the Dadrea that get involved at every chance they get. If all they needed was faith to win then the war would have been over before the Dragonborn had even arrived. An how do you know the Dragonborn canonically sides with the stormcloaks? Where is the evidence? There is also the fact that Ulfric is actually just another Thalmor puppet as his dossier says in the embassy and is just creating this conflict to weaken the empire even further.
49mozzer I dont say the DB canonically chooses the SC, but if the debate on whether or not the Stormcloaks can keep skyrim liberated after driving out the empire, You have to assume that the db sides with them. Cause if he didnt, we couldnt have this debate
I remember when you meet Ulfric Stormcloak in Helgen Keep after escaping from Helgen, he will urge you to get moving. He will say, "Up the stairs! Quickly!", "Move! Up the tower!", "Come on! Before the dragon brings down the whole tower!", and "What are you waiting for? Up the stairs! Now!
If Player Character get Fus-Ro-Dah'd he will lose too Stormcloaks and empire should make truce, because in the end thalmor wins no matter if stormcloaks or empire kills the other.
@LockNES The ledger in the embassy clearly regards him as an agent. Whether he was brainwashed or cut a deal in order to become High king. Either way he is still playing you and Talos only knows what the end game is.
Hey man, just going to point oot a few things, I wasn't sure if you intentionally ignored them as a kind of Imperial role play, but, here they are -'J ~Tullius wasn't in Skyrim until after Toryggs death, and except for Toryggs wife who doesn't like the nords foolish culture, it is agreed by his council that it was a legitimate challenge that was ratified by the High King... also, I doubt it was fought in the throne room, as a gate guard to the city was witness ~ When Ulfric escaped the Thalmor, the Great War had not ended, for he took part in the Battle of Red Ring when the Empires forces destroyed the Dominion forces and retook the Imperial city ~ Ulfric *is* right, general Tullius even admits that most of what he says about the Empire is true when you meet him at the Thalmor embassy ~ The Markarth Incident was when the Thalmor came to Markarth and ordered the arrest of Ulfric and his men, to which the Empire obeyed.. this was the founding day of the Stormcloaks ~ It was while Ulfric was imprisoned by the Empire that his Father died, Ulfric only became Jarl after his release and the people insisted he take the seat of Jarl, even though he gave up that path when he joined the Greybeards... it was kind of a democratic election, voice of the people. ~ The Empire was victorious over the Thalmor in the Great War, in well over half a year everything the Thalmor could throw at the Empire was put down and regarded as piecemeal, partial and unsystematic... the Dominion had effectively lost and was just throwing every thing they could at the empire in desperation.... lucky for them the Emperor started the negotiation for peace by saying he was desperate for peace at any price... Advantage; THALMOR ~ The Thalmor could not have defeated the Empire, as can be seen with their incredible difficulty fighting and losing the war in Hammerfell after the Empire told the Redguards to Eff off... how can the Thalmor defeat the Entire Empire if they can't even defeat the most heavily devastated province that had been in the midst of a long civil war right when the Aldmeri invaded? ~ You say one of Toryggs Vampire Nannies quotes, but you left out how Ulfric was continuously talking about Skyrims independence at the moot, and when asked why Torygg didn't declare independence, she tells you straight up "Torygg would Never Betray The Empire"... seems to be a bit of a contradiction to her statement that if Ulfric had just asked 100 times instead of only 99, he may have agreed with him ~ The taxes and tariffs the Empire has set on the people has driven them into poverty, that money being funneled to the Thalmor as stated in the White-Gold Concordat. - And the Imperials oppressing the religious freedom of the people, and handing them over to be tortured to death by the Thalmor is probably a more pressing concern... a few thousand people tortured to death in exchange for peace may seem like a great bargain for the Empire who see people as a mere renewable resource, but to Ulfric and the people being sacrificed, not so much ~I'd say Ulfric seeking to make alliances with the surrounding provinces is thinking about the future, heck, Hammerfell has the same objectives and resentment for the Empire, their likeliness to join the Stormcloak alliance is almost a given ... one last thing, with how much the Imperials have been fighting the Thalmors enemies to enforce their will, it would not surprise me if in the next game if the Thalmor launch another invasion into Hammerfell, the Empire aids them in its conquest, after all, they did promise them southern hammerfell in the White-Gold Concordat... the same treaty that led them to persecute Talos Worshipers like Ulfric... could be interesting, suffice it to say, I am no supporter of the Empire, after Titus Mede conquered The Empire that we all loved from the previous Elder Scrolls games, it just hasn't been the same
While Ulfric was spending 10 years locked in a castle to master the voice, the High King was chasing maids and y'all call it unfair that he tore the King with his shout. Milk drinkers.
If you kill Ulfric before going to Sovngarde, you can encounter his ghost. And after death, when Ulfric can see clearly what he has done and what were the consequences, he regrets it.
Either side winning is bad for the Thalmor, its obvious that they want the war to keep going for a while.
@@Smileyreal The difference is when Stormcloaks fall, the Empire gonna hand Skyrim to the Thalmor on a silver plate, and Tulius gonna be licking Elenvens feet. Even if Skyrim couldn't stand Thalmors invasion (which they could, with Dragonborn on their side) I would rather die fighting for my home than become a slave to some puffed up elf.
I wonder if Ulfric will be in Sovngarde in my game. Hes currently one of my dead thralls. He retains his shouts and all of his speech. I wonder if the game recognizes that I brought him back, and rempve him from Sovngarde? Or will he be both in Sovngarde and as my dead thrall, essentially cloning him? Anyone else tried this before?
@@jizzyg1559 Not just the dragon born, if you complete the quest "in my time of need" in favor of the A'likr, their leader will tell you that the resistance against the Dominion in Hammerfell is alive and eager to see Saadia punished for her treason. There's some alliance potential there.
@Prich319 Unless the Dragonborn sides with the imperials, smart guy.
Man, this comment section got as bad as *actual politics*
that's impressive Skyrim.
this is why I stay out of it :D
You gotta admit, despite being bad at coding, Bethesda certainly knows how to write a story.
I just wish that they kept the advanced siege system
@@zekeram129 It's Todd's fault really, he keeps putting "Bugs" as a way for people to not steal the engine of the game.
@@zekeram129 bruh, you roasted Bethesda!
Fantastic job.
Elisif: I’m a legitimate successor
Ulfric: I won in a fair duel
Dovahkiin: Unfortunately, I’m High King of Skyrim
Its more like
Dovakiin:HAHA GODMODE ENABLED BITCH I'LL BEAT YALL ASSES
Fus Roh Dah
"I'm a Vampiric Lord, the Archmage of the College in Winterhold and the Dragonborn, with equipment so powerfully enchanted that I can cast all types of spells at no cost, and that enhances my health and stamina to insane levels incomprehensible to you. I can and will destroy each and every one of you if you dare to step in my path on my way to become High King of Skyrim."
The Shorian Shezarrine should be High king in a union with the empire.
I love to get high too
Ulfric:Make it quick. I'm a busy man.
You: What ya doin' today?
Ulfric: Sitting on my throne.
You: But you said you were busy...
Ulfric: Do you have any idea how cold it gets here? My ass is working 24/7 to keep this chair warm!
@@Firestar4041 Good one xD
@@Firestar4041 You God damn right it's cold! I just need some tasty nachos then I will be satisfied.
Dragon_Slayer that shows he's lazy therefore is not fit to rule
Explain to me if I'm lazy how did I manage to wonder over to solitude and put torygg to the sword?
A bit sad the only proper education facilities in all Skyrim are the Winterhold College and the Bard College, as a foster parent of 2, it concerns me.
No public schooling? GOOD! Your family doesn't need all that globalist- I mean, thalmor propaganda and brainwashing, you can teach your brood how to swing an axe all by yourself; the traditional Nord way!
@@alaskamark4562 Home schooling it is then.
@@alaskamark4562 Oh woaw. That's the most horrible thing i've read so far in this comment section. Congrats. You are a true American- I mean, Nord.
@@Kidomaru222 it's called a joke.
Greybeards too
I think the Empire should rule, but the Thalmor should be exiled from Skyrim.
Yeah m8
that's what the Stormcloaks are trying to do, the Imperials don't rule anything, they're fighting to be the bitches of the thalmore and slowly be opressed, stripped of rights and dominated.
@@meginna8354 but when the empire gain force and recover his strengh he will make a 2nd war against the thalmor. Speak with rikke if she considers the thalmor enemies or not.
Yes please
Exiled? Haha no.
Execute every last one of them and send their severed heads back to the Summerset Isles, just like the Thalmor did to the Empire with the Blades.
The Empire is planning to go to war with the Dominion anyway after they’ve recovered their strength, so why not do so with style.
Talos: creates the empire
Ulfric: we should fight the empire to honor Talos
Talos:wtf!?!
mathew riedhammer talos created the septim empire which ended in oblivion
@@peryite9979 the empire is still the same empire though the rulling line is not. Why did Talos create the empire to begin with. Ulfric if he really was true to his beliefs should aim to restore the empire as Talos once did, instead he looks only to Skyrim and ironically his cause brings more disruption for both empire and Skyrim.
The empire doesnt want to praise talos but he made them
Remember however that even though Talos created it, they banned the worship of him in the white gold concordant. Now we know why it's to preserve to fight another day, but the Nords are simple, and the outlawing of their deity did not sit kindly.
I guess they thought the current system didn't represent Talos. Makes sense since it outlawed his worship.
I remember reading a book in the game; it attracted me because it was pro-Empire despite appearing in Windhelm. It was a scholar who insisted that worshipping Talos as a god undermined his human accomplishments, and went on to say that the men of Skyrim should be grateful to the elves for showing the error of their culture.
It's that kind of writing that puts a lot of ordinary people off to academia and high society, provoking further rebellion-even if mostly out of spite.
Brought to you by the Imperial Legion Ministries of Warfare and Propaganda!
I totally agree
@Ford Fairlane spoken like a true imperial thamor book licker hail ulfric the true high king
@Ford Fairlane the nords were before the imperial invaded Skyrim so he wants it for the nords and ulfric was betrayed by the imperials at markarth after he saved their asses from the forsworn
Ulfric is rather dishonourable from the start.
1. He was chosen by the Greybeards, to be taught in the Way of the Voice and to become a Greybeard like them. After only ten years and learning two Shouts (Unrelating Force and Disarm), he joined the war and used those Shouts to fight, Forsaking the Way of the Voice, only to be captured by the Thalmor, being turned into an asset and causing needless conflict.
2. Ulfric staged the Markarth Incident, turning Markarth into a Nordic city, which proves valuable to the Thalmor since now they can subjugate it since it belongs to Skyrim.
3. Ulfric was massacring and executing native Reachmen on such a scale that it got the Empire's attention, prompting an investigation. After the Empire uncovered the full-scale massacre of the Reachmen under Ulfric and Jarl of Markarth's hand, the Empire called for the arrest of Ulfric, Hrolfdir and the militia (who then hasn't started using the term 'Stormcloak' to identify themselves) responsible. Thus, leading to Ulfric's imprisonment and deep resentment towards the Empire.
3. Ulfric's militia turned rebellious after his imprisonment, taking the title 'the Stormcloaks.' After Ulfric's father, Hoag's death, the Empire allowed Ulfric to be released. After taking the throne as Jarl of Windhelm, Ulfric forced the Argonians population outside the city walls via a decree, segregated the Dunmer population to the Grey Quarter. Ulfric also did not act if an Argonian or Dunmer of his city was attacked, threatened or was being discriminated, only sending aid or investigation if a Nord was in that situation. All the while, skirmishing against the Empire rather unsuccessfully due to High King Istlod's efforts.
4. After High King Istlod's death, despite Toryyg having a traditionally justified claim to the throne, held a Moot where the Jarls of the cities of Skyrim could make the decision to elect a High King. The Jarls of Skyrim elected Toryyg to be the High King.
5. Ulfric then asked for an audience with the High King Toryyg, where he challenged Toryyg to a Traditional Nordic Duel, to which Toryyg had the choice to accept the challenge or rearrange another moot. Toryyg accepted the challenge and Ulfric unleashed the voice to disorient or disarm Toryyg, though Ulfric claims that he killed Toryyg with his sword. His use of thu'um against someone who can't use thu'um was considered by many as an unfair advantage and blasphemy in the Way of the Voice, since you are forbidden to use the Voice to fight, leading to many accusing Ulfric of murder and alienating many against him.
5½: the Duel doesn't have to end in death, you can best the opponent and banish him. But Ulfric knew Toryyg was a better leader, therefore he eliminated the threat by outright killing him. Also a reason why many consider him a murderer.
6. If he had asked Toryyg to declare independence from the Empire, which judging from the deep respect Toryyg has for Ulfric, he would've accepted. Instead, Ulfric killed Toryyg and started a Civil War.
7. When the Jarls of Skyrim demanded a Moot, Ulfric did not allow it to meet as he did not want Jarl Elisif, Widow of the High King Toryyg to become High Queen.
In conclusion: Ulfric has no honor, has a track record of genocide, is highly discriminatory against anyone who isn't a Nord, highly anti-authoritarian even when the authorities are doing the best possible thing, used the voice to his advantage, has dictatorial tendencies and is prone to violent means to get what he wants, and is overall brutal, selfish, insecure, authoritarian and stupid.
Ulfric's actions helped the Thalmor more than it hindered them. *facepalm*
This one small part of a conversation changed my mind forever.
Tullius: "Enough... enough..."
Ulfric: "This is it for you. Any last words before I send you to Oblivion?"
Tullius: "You realize this is exactly what they wanted."
Galmar: "What who wanted?"
Tullius: "The Thalmor. They stirred up trouble here. Forced us to divert needed resources and throw away good soldiers quelling this rebellion."
It doesn't matter who wins.. it matter that the fighting keeps going to the Aldmeri Dominion.
I always believed that the Dragonborn can easily become the next Tiber Septim and lead Skyrim into independence successfully like Hammerfell fought of the Thalmor but we have to make sure we don't lose good MEN for when the MER come back.
The dragon born can do so with ulfric and galmar at his sides
LETTS GOOOO ELF GENOCIDE
If General Tullius knew this, why didn't he respect the Nord's culture? Why does it seem like he's doing everything in his power to crush them completely? If engaging in Civil War is going to destroy the world, why wouldn't he let the Nords rule THEIR OWN LAND and then ally himself with them? Tullius is a POS and it shows at the beginning of the game when he's about to execute you, an innocent person, without a trial.
It does matter who wins Ulfric doesn't have anywhere near the man power or resources to fight the Aldmeri Dominion.
You forgot the fact that Ulfric killed the King with the voice. That's about as fair as bringing a cannon to a boxing match.
Mr Reasonable If you talk to him in windhelm he says that he used the voice to shout him to the ground, but that’s not what killed him. Ulfric’s sword is what actually did the killing.
@@aarondebor7486 It's still an unfair fight either way.
Ulfric challenged the king to a challange according to the old nordic traditions, that includes the voice aswell, due to all the draugr (Dead nords) who is able to shout at the player, the voice was used by many nords, and used for challengeing each other to take power, kind of like in a wolf pack, where you have to kill the alpha to become the alpha. So he did beat him fair and square.
You have to understand war is war you use any means to come out on top or your useless
He knew the rules
His heart is in the right place but his brain ...
Well thats not even there
I was about to see "it's missing"
Then i clikc the "Read More" XD
These pretzels Suck ass well to be fair the presence of the Empire in Skyrim is really small, and it’s the only reason why Ulfrics rebellion wasn’t destroyed at the beginning. From what I have dug up from the lore only a single small Legion of the Empire is in Skyrim. The other I think nineteen legion are at the borders of the Dominion preparing for war
These pretzels Suck ass true, I must agree with you there
Jesus! I've Never Laughed So Hard at a Comment.
These pretzels Suck ass Maybe the empire in the province but not the empire as a whole, the legion in Skyrim is mostly a bunch of rag tag farmers and stuff like that, not highly trained soldiers like the rest of the legion.
Ok show of hands Who else thinks Jarl Balgruuf should be High King Of Skyrim?
Not many. I vote for ciccero
Balgruf would be a terrible high king.
No he killed his previous wife ( that's the skeleton under the bridge to dragonreich) it's a theory in one of epicnates videos. Theirs also a side quest where you find out one of his son's has a different mother and a dadric God has been talking to him. Theirs a lot more to this theory so check out the video if y'all are interested
@Eugene Flores Ysgramor wasn't dragonborn. WTF are you talking about.
Broke my heart when that bastard sided with the imperials
Because he's just using this war to steal the empire's tasty nachos.
I was just watching that a little bit ago
Did you read my diary?! I've never told anyone the true reason why I fight... mark my words! *ThE dAmN nAcHoS wIlL bE mInE!*
Date Masamune they're quite cheesy but with a little spice
Ulfric Stormcloak hello friend! U want a real snack eh?
@@icantthinkofagoodname392 Fruits and vegetables are quite tasty and fresh!
General Tullius will flat out admit the empires plan to regroup and rebel later. Also Ulfric making a big deal about the markarth incident was the reason Talos worship actually had to go underground, before everyone still did it and still had their shrines. After ulfrics tantrum the aldmeri steamrolled in and started purging it.
The markarth incident is Ulfric getting arrested for talos worship after freeing markarth of the forsworn in exchange for being allowed to worship talos. The Thalmor found out and the empire handed over Ulfric.
Ulfric didnt have a tantrum he made a deal with the jarl of markarth to retake the city in exchange for free worship and the jarl agreed. He retakes Markarth and is shortly afterwards turned over to the thalmor by the empire and the thalmor begin investigating talos worshipers with the approval of the empire. The empire reneged on the deal. Ulfric was in the right.
@@gheleonthedriven649 yeah but the Empire also turned a blind eye whenever someone worshipped Talos and wasn't cracking down which infuriated the Aldmeri Dominion. Hell even Tulius turned a blind eye away from his lieutenant when she mentioned Talos. Ulfric then had his idiot rebellion and the forced the Empire to crack down. If Ulfric was smart and patient then eventual Talos worship would have returned after the second war
@@drakashrakenburgproduction5369 Yeah but before the Markarth incident there were no freaking Thalmor arresting people left and right, that only happened because of the Markarth incident.
It's been over twenty years since the great war at the point of Skyrim. All the while, a key member of the Nordic pantheon is illegal to acknowledge.
I'd want to distance myself from that empire as much as possible too if I worshiped Talos.
@@redgeoblaze3752 what people don't see is that skyrim does not stand a chance against the dominion on her own, an independent skyrim would just get conquered by the domininon, and then even underground worship of talos would be wiped out.
Side with the Imperials because I like Balgruuf to remain Jarl of Whiterun as he is a great and wise man.
Balgruff should be High King...
I always loved him. He's a good Jarl.
I don't know why we can't have the option to persuade him to side with Ulfric. He says he won't side with either side: "I'm on the side of Whiterun" but then somehow justifies returning Ulfric's axe & accepting Imperial soldiers in his city.
The best of both worlds would be to KEEP Balgruuf as jarl & help to free Skyrim.
Holla if ya need him.
@Tupac Shinji- Balgruuf is doing what he believes is best for Whiterun . Joining the Stormcloaks is not what’s best for Whiterun ( In his view) and the don’t think he has the kind of character to switch loyalties so easily .
Ulfric seems like a good man going down the wrong path.
He's a good man, but he cannot understand even the most basic non-physical combat strategy....
U lose the war? u stop it and prolongue the peace at any way untill u grow stronger....
Bogdan Mavrodin yep, your right it worked for the French in WWII. Oh wait, no it didnt. Never is surrendering a viable strategic plan.
@ColdWolf That’s why we needed to end him and lead the new Skyrim empire.
@These pretzels Suck ass Then who is he fighting against. If he wanted to fight the white gold concordat he would take the fight to the Thalmor. Even though the band of idiot stormcloacks would never stand a chance.
@@blu3d3vil97 He is everything but a good man. He is a racist power hungry savage who only wants chaos. He has blinded the people into fighting for so called freedom but really he only cares for himself.
Elves live for hundreds of years. The Thalmor are playing a divide and conquer game, on a larger and longer scale. They egged a stupid radical to do what stupid radicals do, provide reasons for enemies to attack on their own people. The redguards "secession" was a ruse to send reinforcements and kick the Thalmor out of Hammerfell. But Ulfrik's actions are far more damaging in the long run. He might have his fun watching the Thalmor trounce the Empire, but the end of the imperials means one less human ally when the Thalmor finally show at Skyrim's door.
While I agree that ulfrik can’t beat the AD by himself, since for him to win against the empire he would have the help of the Dragonborn so wouldn’t he/she also help ulfrik fight the AD
@@jsucker2280 Why not just add the feature to fight the Thalmor yourself and ally both sides then
@@sambradley9091 they don't want to ally and Empire is a bitch about fighting back
There are many reasons why I'm against the stormcloaks, they're racist, egotistical assholes who can't see the bigger picture. If the empire falls, the thalmor win.
And if the stormcloaks can't repel a smaller imperial faction, what will they do against the thalmor themself?
@@rumor-936 well. For starters the Cyrodill the only way to enter skyrim via land is blockaded by imperials anyway. The only way the AD could invade is via Sea. Skyrim shores is the in-game equivalent of bermuda triangle, regardless I highly doubt the DB would let the AD invade at all.
The problem with the Stormcloaks is that even if they win they're not gonna last very long
I'm selfish too. Their system was bouta have me headless. A system similar to the one that helps the fake get ahead. I'm in the game innocent and on death row. I took it personal.
@@smokenmirrors63 You should take it personally. The Empire is shown to be evil from the very first cutscene of the game. You can't be the good guys if you execute innocent people without a trial.
@@macggnore They are not shown to be evil. That wasn't the Empire that was one commander who gave the order. Hadvar regretfully obeyed and had it been up to him you would have been set free. He also tries to protect you during Alduin's attack and Gen. Tulius screams "Protect the citizens" when Alduin attacks Helgen.
Ulfric has the "my way or high way" attitude which certainly doesn't help his cause.
@@smokenmirrors63 They are not shown to be evil. That wasn't the Empire that was one commander who gave the order. Hadvar regretfully obeyed and had it been up to him you would have been set free. He also tries to protect you during Alduin's attack and Gen. Tulius screams "Protect the citizens" when Alduin attacks Helgen.
Ulfric has the "my way or high way" attitude which certainly doesn't help his cause.
Rule should belong to the Dragonborn, isn’t it obvious?
Googlybop exactly why I have the High King mod Lol
@@crusadergodx9795 how do I get the high king mod on xbox?
@Gizio SKSE?
@Gizio I mean what a SKSE?
It makes more sense considering the Dragonborne fights the dragons, risk his/her life in Dwarven Temples and Caves, Either tried to avoid making deals with daedra or only with the good ones, help out Raven Rock, Take care of the Vampires in Morthal and the large group of vampires (or joining them), helping orc strongholds, becoming a companions leader, Becoming Thane to towns, Fighting Mirrak, Defeating the World Eater and all such, The Dragonborne did so much more as everyone asks him/her so many favours including whether which side of the war you choose to get the Jagged Crown even though you are with some help but both sides do nothing unless you are involved, Which concludes that the Dragonborne should be the High King/Queen as all was done and resolved by one person all along.
on surface levels ulfric seems like the better option but anyone that digs into the lore realizes ulfric is entitled and somewhat unstable
"Somewhat"
That's a very irrational reason not to choose him, he as a person is flawed but his side is the right side, the imperials are just fighting to be the thalmores bitch and slowly be oppressed and dominated by them.
Doesn't matter, Skyrim belongs to the Nords
@@meginna8354 The Imperials are not in shape to fight the Thalmor yet, do you honestly believe that seceding will help Skyrim?
The Thalmor are doing the smart thing, divide and conquer, once Cyrodill falls, Skyrim is next, then High Rock, then Hammerfell... What do you expect a bunch of divided and weak nation-states to do again a well prepared Aldmeri army? Win?
You people are just insane, Ulfric is just a power hungry traitor, nothing more.
@@raiderfox7229 they've already conquered the Empire. Ulfric is all those things but his side is right, it's the duty of the Dragonborn to overthrow the Thalmor, not help them dominate.
Listen I'll just give you the best reason right now
Let's be honest
His clothes are dope
Edit: the fact 51 people agree with me is kind of disturbing
We sound so insane we kill people for their clothes
yes but so is Tullius's special armor, both look fantastic tho so perfectly agree.
Mr. Sqeekz 113
Mr. Sqeekz I just master pick pocket him in his sleep
Tbh i think ya can roleplay as him cuz nord on start looks kinda like him
I would join the stormcloaks just for the fact that imperial soldiers tried to kill me for no reason at the beginning of the game
@AuRtHoR
That's a pretty immature and irrational response to someone who just stated a perfectly acceptable choice in a *video game*
You could just give a reasoned counter argument without insulting him over something that isn't even real.
@Jaded Old Joe
I'm interested to know how the stormcloaks are "racist" ?
I'm genuinely curious as to why they are labelled as such but no one else in the game is.
A reasoned response just concerning the game would be appreciated.
@@54356776 Its mainly reflected in two ways.
Their warcry "Skyrim belongs to the Nords" and the way Windhelm is governed. Argonians are not permitted to take up residency inside the city walls while the Dunnmer are badly treated with either the city guard participating or at the very least turning a blind eye to it.
Further more many Stormcloak allied Jarls will spew all manner of anti elven slurs at *any* given opportunity.
Their zealous hatred of elves of course being somewhat justified given that the ruling government of the allied Elven races is actively persecuting them for worshiping their deity.
I would play devils advocate and suggest that actually they have a genuine greivence.
@AuRtHoR Well you could look at is as the stormcloaks are absolutely right. The ONLY reason anyone should support the empire is because they're the only ones powerful enough to hold their own against the thalmor.
@aurthor
Lol your super triggered reaction was WAY more immature.... so if a group of people tried to kill you and you were barely saved, you really think it would be an immature reaction to have a grudge against a group of people that were literally about to cut your head off for seemingly nothing. Really? So you would sympathize with the people that just tried to kill you. Do you have a weird form of Stockholm or are you just a bitch 😆
Damn Elves. I bet they had something to do with this.
Lmfao because ulfric is racist as fuck against the elves
@@marcm7009 who wouldn't, f those high elves
@@niles1492 shit who knows
@@marcm7009 Not really, he's judging them based on their actions, the thalmor are racist assholes, and when ulfric calls them out you're all like he's a racist, wtf.
@@marcm7009 no, not all elves. Just high elves. He clearly doesn't hate the dunmer or bosmer as they take residence in his city. If he hated the dunmer, than why would he let them step foot in windhelm? Sure, they live in the slums of the gray quarter, but it's still windhelm. Clearly ulfric doesn't mind them being there. And the bosmer are practically always peaceful towards nords and really anyone they talk to. The bosmer are very peaceful people and therefore everyone treats them fairly even if they don't admit it. Now, the khajit and argonians on the other hand, they may be relatively peaceful but they also tend to be the troubled kind.
Isn't Whiterun under Imperial domain? The same Whiterun with a Talos priest giving his sermon in broad daylight?
@Gaming Lemming This is evident when the city guard threaten two Hammerfell soldiers when you enter the city. The guard telling them they aren't allowed and lucky they weren't arrested on the spot. As the city won't tolerate outsiders stirring up trouble. This being said, Thalmor agents would likely be told the same thing. They would stir up trouble if they entered the city and thus would be banned from passing the city gate. Any that do would likely be arrested.
Balgruff a true Jarl just wants his people to be happy simple as that
Heimskr the priest (not to mention the flippin' huge Talos statue behind him) is evidence that Whiterun is actually pro-Talos worship. I think it's a real shame that there's no option to persuade Balgruuf to side with Ulfric against the Empire without bloodshed.
Even the empire hates the Dominion you may have noticed that from a conversation with Tulius
He's nutrual
One man does not Simply hold the name of “Dragonborn,Thane of all Holds,Listener,All God’s Champion,Harbringer,Chief of Thirsk Mead Hall,Killer Miraak, Killer of Alduin,Married to Aela,Rider of Shadowmere,Vampire Lord Wrontit
And destroyer of alduin and also the grey fox
😂😂😂not part of house telvani tho
“Married to Aela” 😭😭
I feel that siding with the Empire is the right decision all along, and that having you nearly executed by them mistakenly at the start is the game asking you to do the same as Ulfric. Let go of your own personal grudges and issues for the bigger picture.
i play since begining , after years of modding and play again and again i never chose stormcloak ,cuz the begining Todd make u hate empire i knew he up to smthing
even then, going with Hadvar during the dragon attack at Helgen shows him to be extremely reasonable as he assists you in the escape.
@@StardustLegend So does Ralof
@@spikey288 Ralof doesn't even unbind you untill you go into Helgen Keep. He let you jump off the tower before even cutting your cuffs. Screw him lol.
@@east90nine Cos there was no time dumby, hadvar coulda help let you go since he knew you weren't on the list but he didn't do nothing either did he?
Whether you side with the imperials or stormcloaks, we all know the real answer...
The Dragonborn is the true king of Skyrim.
Facts
I genuinely wish for the option to just fight the thalmor, unite both sides and fight the REAL enemy, those bastard elves....
Both Ulfric and Tulius should get it!.. I always wanted Balgruf to be high King.
Kevin Nash same, out of all of the characters in the game I think Balgruuf is not only the best candidate, but also really the only reasonable one. All of the other Jarls have weaknesses that you don’t want to see in high king, and many of the non-Jarl characters are in the same boat, like being too old or too weak willed.
@@ethanhess8230 I like Balgruuf, but he would be a bad choice for High King either. He can't make up his mind without some arrogant prick (Proventus) and bossy bitch (Irileth). All he would do is depending on others to make choices for him.
Jizzy G I don't think that's a bad thing. He makes his own choices and isn't pulled one way or the other by advisors. The fact he is intelligent enough to hear opinions from others and make his decision only AFTER hearing multiple angles and considering the options, that's a far better trait than being impulsive or selfish with decisions, especially as a king.
This guy gets it
yaas thats a good idea
I think the Dragonborn should unite what's left of the Empire and the remainder of the Stormcloaks into one force along with any allies the Dragonborn has (mages from Winterhold, if the Dragonborn leads the Dark Brotherhood, bring them too, also if they sided with either the Blades or let Pathummax live, that would be a good one!). Imagine the Dragonborn leading all of these people, dragons, or whomever against the Thalmor! They wouldn't stand a chance. Then at the end of at all, have the option of becoming Emperor. At least, the Dragonborn would be strong with the people in his/her mind.The Dragonborn should as hell wouldn't bend knee to ANYONE!
The Dragonborn does have a claim to the empires throne as Tiber Septim was a Dragonborn.
Actually no, unless the Dragonborn is a descendant of Tiber Septim, or somehow Martin conceived a child before becoming Emporer, they do not have any legitimate claim as the Emporer/Empress.
Tiber Septim himself was not the child of an emperor. He ruled by an even greater right than heredity, the right of force.
Inconsistently lore-wise, the last Dragonborn is supposedly canonically powerful enough to decimate whole armies without breaking a sweat, since he/she is literally going through the process of becoming a god. The Dominion’s birth rate is really low, so their armies haven’t replenished very much since the war. The power of Lorkhan through the Numidium was enough to bring the elves to their knees in just a few hours in the past, and Lorkhan just so happens to be the god that the last Dragonborn is mantling. With the help of just a few legions, the last Dragonborn could potentially conquer all of Tamriel, just like Tiber Septim did. Tiber Septim was Dragonborn, but he wasn’t the last Dragonborn and was also not as gifted in the voice. Supposing the dragonborn decides to fight the dominion, they’ll be screwed.
@@fenrisvermundr2516 The Dragonborn is not a descendent of Tibet Septim. The Dragonborn is an inheriter of the old magics. Your blood has nothing to do with it. What is required however is exposure to the old magics which happens at your execution.
If you beat the civil war quest line with the Stormcloaks every npc who is neutral will tell you “yeah man shit sucks with the Stormcloak in charge now”
Ulfric's lack of foresight shows at the end of the Civil War quest-line if you side with him.
He thinks the Empire is beaten and now he can focus on the Aldmeri Dominion. Plz correct me if I am wrong but wasn't the Imperial Force sent to Skyrim like 1 Legion out of 20 or something like that. He has now made Skyrim an enemy of the Empire and they WILL HAVE TO deal with them as such. So if they struggled this much against the force sent to Skyrim, how could they hope to beat the Empire AND the Dominion.
Like seriously, remove the dragonborn from the equation and what chances does Ulfric really have. Plus his xenophobic tendencies will definitely alienate potential allies. Argonians - Nope. Dark Elves - Nope. High Elves - LOL. Orcs - who knows with them. Imperials - LOL, Bsomer - Dominion, Khajiit - Dominion. That leaves the Bretons - Whose political landscape is something else entirely, and The Redguards - But they might not be so keen to enter another alliance with their fellow men after the whole Empire thing.
Not to mention Hammerfell already has a lot of problems with Skyrim.
Yeah, but now he has all Skyrim's resources behind his back, all the cities AND forts. If the Empire wants to take Skyrim back they would have to do so by force, as in, marching through Pale Pass (which is blocked by an avalanche and is easily defended). During the Civil War they had half of Skyrim helping them and Tullius was recruiting the locals to fill his ranks, it was far beyond just a "legion" by the time of the game. Titus Mede (or whoever controls that shitty Empire back home) ain't Tiber Septim. If Ulfric wins, Skyrim stays independent.
There is no "Dark Elves" to do alliances anymore anyway, so that point is invalid as Morrowind is a wasteland by this point. The Imperials would not attack again as that would only drain Cyrodill's resources, so a mutual cease fire is not that difficult at least. And the redguards might ally themselves with Ulfric no problem, Hammerfell don't have any beef with Skyrim as far as I know.
@@johnwill4135 Let's remember that the main enemy here is the Aldmeri Dominion, not the Empire.
If Ulfric wins, the best case scenario is a cease fire with the Empire they just rebelled against. But no trust means no alliance.
Also Skyrim's resources aren't as abundant as you are making them sound. They just went through a civil war. They NEED to rebuild, and unify. Because not all citizens will be on board Ulfric's crusade. So Skyrim needs time. And any time they have is time the Empire also gets. They can now defend they home better, maybe. But the Pale Pass is not impenetrable. Especially when your opponent could be magic using elves which the nords hating of magic puts them at a disadvantage.
The Dark Elves are broken, yes but not out. This would be the perfect time to recruit them to your side, when they down. Ulfric has less chance to recruit them than the Empire. But let's remove them as well from the equation then.
The force Tullius had to work with probably couldn't match one legion. Because it lacked experience and discipline. Most were untrained farmers and ordinary citizens. The same as at least half of Ulfric's current force. How many soldiers has he lost at this point because of his rebellion.
So in summary, Ulfric's best bet is that the Empire doesn't hold a grudge and attack with full intent. That means that he is the lesser option. He even notes something like this himself when you are at the Dark Brotherhood questline to kill the cousin at the wedding and also at the finale of the civil war. He holds off attacking because it would have the empire up in arms.
But the worst part is what stops the Dominion from crushing a weakened Skyrim. The empire can't, shouldn't, and won't intervene if the elves attack. And Skyrim CAN'T beat the Dominion currently, they ain't no hammerfell.
Good points, it's good to see imperial arguments that don't include "racism111!", well done. So let's get going.
Skyrim needs to rebuild, it's true, but it will not take like, five, ten or thirty years to do so like the Dominion and Cyrodiil. The rebellion just begun as Torygg was just killed, it's not like they are fighting for years or centuries. In fact, as I pointed out, Cyrodiil is the one that needs to rebuild the most as all it's southern cities got sacked by the Thalmor, not Skyrim.
Morrowind don't have any beef with Skyrim, mate. Raven Rock was given to them by a High King of Skyrim, Ulfric's father allows them to live in Windhelm and more. At worst they would agree to a trade agreement, even if it's minimal. The Empire on the other hand, what does the Mede Dynasty do for Morrowind? Yeah, nothing.
Now on the Empire invading Skyrim thing. Both the nords and the imperials took losses in the Great War, but just Cyrodiil's cities got sacked and it's population killed, which means that they have, AT BEST, the same amounts of men that Skyrim does. Now, IF the Empire throws everything they got at Pale Pass they COULD score a victory there, but even that I'm not sure. Ulfric has the Thu'um, it's the most simple thing to create another avalanche by using that on the pass, he's on another level entirely. I stick to my point that the Empire cannot attack Skyrim so easily as you put it, that's ridiculous. And that's if they choose to do a full scale assault, because you know, there's a bunch of angry elves on the other side of you empire just waiting to strike?
Ulfric said that on the Dark Brotherhood quest because by that point the Empire had a foothold on Skyrim, so invading it it's more managable (and even then they were blocked in Pale Pass by an avalanche, lol). If he has all the cities and forts under Stormcloak control, it's another thing entirely.
"They ain't no hammerfell." I agree. Because Skyrim >>> Hammerfell. Hammerfell it's on the backyard of Summerset Isle, divided forever by two factions by culture and politics (Crowns and Forebears), and Skyrim is on the other side of the continent. If you know even the simplest thing about warfare you would know that what holds an army together is SUPPLIES. It's not on the White-Gold Concordant that the Dominion can march it's army through Cyrodiil. In fact, they are being held in check on the southern borders just by some imperial legions, mate. Going by land to Skyrim? Yeah, good luck with that. Going by sea? Where? On the pirate's infested western sea or by the Sea of Ghosts? I bid you welcome, bitches. That's so easy to cut off it's not even funny, Skyrim is basically a frozen wasteland with dragons, trolls and undead wandering the land. They can't invade it, can't take it, can't hold it even in their deep elven dreams.
And then you put the Dragonborn on the whole thing, done. He's the protector of Skyrim (It's in the Main Quest to oppose the Thalmor). He alone can take on the Thalmor with Bend Will, Storm Call and etc.
Would love to know what you think about those, cheers.
@@johnwill4135 The great war was about 25 years ago by the time of Skyrim. Since the empire is still engaged in a cold war of sorts with the Dominion, replenishing their legions would be a top priority. So in essence they have had time to rebuild. For more info on this topic, I can direct you to this video by FudgeMuppet: (How Strong is the empire really) czcams.com/video/FAN_pmxY_dU/video.html.
I can concede on Morrowind not having beef with Skyrim, though if anything that might not take sides.
I would like to remind you that forts in Skyrim aren't 100% but with time they can rebuild sure. Also Pale Pass isn't the only path into Skyrim. I could be wrong but isn't there supposed to be one near Bruma which would Riften side.
Also what Ulfric would have just done would have been a coup. Not everyone is on board obviously so expecting his "reign" to go unapposed is wishful thinking. Heck his rebellion started from similar roots. And there is still the forsworn and bandit problem Skyrim has. Also you give Ulfric took much credit. He can't create an avalanche from windhelm's throne meaning he will need to be at the pale pass. Only a foolish commander goes to the frontlines. If he dies, its chaos.
I don't which pirates you are thinking of but no pirates with common sense would attack a Dominion Armada. There's no hope of victory there. The Dominion wouldn't send one ship at a time when attacking because that's not how warfare works. Plus they already have all the reconnaissance they need, at least for the time being given the free reign they have had in skyrim. Heck they could even be sleeper agents. And if you look at the example of the dragon of the North, Ysmir or Talos (to our non-nordic brethren), clearly distance, travel, supply lines are all part of war and not instant deal breakers.
Your move.
I want to start a new series on another bethesda game studios game!What fallout or elder scrolls game should we start doing hardest decisions for?
New Vegas
It may be overdone, but New Vegas has a lot of hard decisions. Fallout 4 has a few too, but not many imo.
StraightUpIrish dure
Fallout 4 dllc babyy
Oblivion
Ulfric's short-sightedness is one of the most dangerous threats to Skyrim. So caught up in his "honor" and lust for power that he can't see that his actions play right into the hands of the Thalmer.
I love how even if you execute him, he’s literally the only one that gives you anything more than a fucking “Thanks, lol” for saving the fucking universe
proof of humility
This isn't Stormcloak propaganda either...
Irish, if you're being held hostage, blink twice
I always join the Imperials. Don’t get me wrong, I was pretty salty at first when they tried to kill me, but I just love the feel of it. The imperials were based off of Romans, and Rome’s culture is insanely interesting to me.
However entertaining it may be to you you're neglecting the actually save Skyrim for the people who have saved Skyrim the last one thousand years
@The Pro big dady - ? I’m finding it difficult to properly read what you’ve written so I don’t understand what you’re trying to say .
@@theprobigdady5656 stormcloaks couldnt save skyrim if they managed to defeat the empire
@@nino1397 though given the course of canon. DB would beg to differ. Even then AD can't invade skyrim due to its harsh climate. Who knew Skyrim's cruel weather could be such an advantage for either a Farmer's revolution, or a dead Empire.
Same with me, and i was glad to know they are the right side afterwards
Let's not forget that the Empire didnt really enforced the talos ban as long as it was kept private. But no, the stormcloacks couldnt see that, Ulfric in this matter is too..... Angry, too irrational to see that the empire is trying to play the long game. While both the dominion and the empire suffered similar loss it's been what 30 or so years since the great war ? That's more than enough to repopulate and rebuild the Empire.
And the elves reproduce more slowly than men
Tullius was obviously very against Talos worship, which kinda matters.
@@elephystry I'd say he was more about disliking the fanatism if anything. If the stormcloaks worshipped talos secretly like anyone with brains the entire war won't even occur
@PythonFalls a reminder that there weren't any thalmor agents around before Ulfric started shit up in markarth and there wouldn't be any had he not done it,as righteous as his cause may be his actions are not making things any better
@PythonFalls those nothing wrong actions caused the thalmor to come kicking into skyrim to enfore their rules, the Jarl of Markarth even chose to side with the Empire because he threatened the safety of his people. if that isn't wrong for you guys i don't know what ever will be. besides you can't just catch someone openly without evidence,if you worship them openly like the morons who call themselves stormcloaks no wonder you get caught
''For the glory of the Empire!''
-Random Imperial Legionnaire
Ulfric: *exists*
Me: *You. Everytime i see you, my blood boils*
Hungarian Gamer9 I agree with Ulfric them elves need to DIE
Not all elves are bad though .
J 19 The Empire is the thalmor puppets
I think you’re confusing the empire with the Stormcloaks .
J 19 you are
IMO Ulfric, like, dropping all the joking tones and such about supporting one side or another, is a great general. And by that what I mean is, he can inspire his armies. Say what you will about the Stormcloaks, but they are FULLY devoted to their cause. The entirely believe that their cause is right and just, which is impressive and a good quality. But what Ulfric is NOT...is a good politician. Whether or not he's a good tactician is another matter, because it's hard to say since the questline in the game is kinda bland and both sides seem equally terrible.
What I mean though, is that Ulfric is only interested in driving out the Thalmor and Empire, while installing Jarls that are on his side, but not necessarily good ones, let alone actually providing for the needs of Skyrim. Said other Jarls might only be in it for themselves (see: the Silver-Bloods), or only doing it because they see the tide turning. Now again the Empire side literally does the same thing, which is again an issue of the game mechanics, but if anything is proves both sides are equally shitty at trying to actually BE rulers anymore, but it doesn't excuse it at all though either.
Even so, just within Windhelm itself, Ulfric allows blatant discrimination against the Argonian and Dunmer populations of his city, instead of helping them out of their bad situation. Hell he could even help them out and maybe use that to encourage alliances with Morrowind and Black Marsh, suggesting a new Ebonheart Pact, to curve the rising tide of the Dominion, three kingdoms/countries stronger together, than they are apart. Or just something. Cuz none of that exists in the game unfortunately.
So to answer your question: I agree. Ulfric should die, not for religious reasons or ethics or anything else, but merely because IMO he's doing more harm to Skyrim, even as he believes he's doing right. Honestly I agree with a lot of what he and the Stormcloaks say and believe: The Empire is old and dying, the Thalmor and Dominion cannot be trusted, religious freedom is important (I seriously doubt that the Dominion is gonna stop with JUST the worship of Talos) and so on. His biggest flaw is that he thinks he's the one who should rule Skyrim and kick out everyone else, instead of making trying to find allies where he can find them, not to mention it's better to have the 'Devil you know', as in the Empire, versus standing against the Dominion alone.
Interesting. Finally someone who can give a normal reason for wanting Ulfric dead. I salute you. Now onwards though.
While Ulfric allows discrimination in his city, lets have a real look at this issue. A lot of people seem to think that the Stormcloaks are the only racist faction in Tamriel. Uuuh.... Every race, and yes I mean every race thinks they are the best race that walks Tamriel. The Nords believe that they should rule over their own lands instead of foreigners who don't know and don't care about Nordic culture and traditions. While the Argonians and Dunmer are treated poorly in Windhelm, it is clear that they don't do anything to make it better for themselves. A Dunmer follower even states this himself. They just complain and do nothing to make things better. The entire discussion if they should help with the rebellion, I believe that they should. They have called Windhelm home for many years now, yet when their home needs them, they say that it is not their fight. Ulfric and the Jarls that came before him didn't have to take the refugees in. Yet they did. The foreign population in Windhelm is bigger than the entirity of these races in all of the Empire controlled cities. Ulfric isn't such a bad guy, especially if we compare it to other factions.
Lets have a look at the Empire. The faction that conquered the world with blood and death, and basically forced every living being on Tamriel to their knees because the Imperials believe it is their right to rule over all. Why should the Empire control Skyrim? The only real reason you get is because Skyrim has always been part of the Empire. The only reason that the Thalmor are worse than the Empire is because the Thalmor want to eridicate all the humans on earth, while the Empire just wants them as servants. The Empire and the Thalmor are probably the most racist factions on the continent.
And Ulfric throwing out alliances is false. While I agree that Ulfric should have allied with the Dunmer instantly when he came to power and make friends with the Great Houses, that is more an oversight of Bethesda than of Ulfric. The entire civil war hasn't been completed, while a Dunmer embassy in Windhelm would have been a pretty logical idea. But even in-game Ulfric and Galmar have a discussion over asking aid of the Breton kingdoms, who will not send support. The Bretons not being involved in the civil war speaks loud and clear. The kingdoms of High Rock should bt any means join the Empire, they are a part of it after all. They should be 'forced' in the war. Yet they do nothing. They are keeping their options open. They refuse to join their Empire in times of war, that is... well, treason. The human alliance is certainly an option, and in my opinion a waaay better option than the crumbeling Empire.
I agree with most of what you say but I have to disagree with the thing about the Bretons. No province of the Empire really has an own army, they have most of their soldiers in the imperial army. Many Bretons and even many Nords fight for the Empire, just not in Skyrim but instead are stationed at the border to the Aldmeri Dominion. Most people fighting in Skyrim are either veterans or commoners but not trained soldiers.
@@lukasosterloher9105 Some actually do. In fact, most provinces did. Morrowind was an exeption to this rule.
Especially High Rock, which is made up of multiple kingdoms, barony's etc., High Rock has a huge standing army if you manage to combine all those forses (good luck with that one tho). And not a single one came down to join.
Those armies you mentioned cant leave because if they do, the other armies will just take the kingdom whose armie left for Skyrim. Every province does have a standing army yes, but those armies are still Empire legions and most of their soldiers are currently stationed at the border to the Dominion. The army in High Rock is needed there in order to keep the situation there under control because the last thing the Empire need at the moment is that High Rock decides to become independent.
@@lukasosterloher9105 The High Rock standing army is not Legion. They can be called up to serve as Legionaires, but the Breton Kings have their own armies that serve under them, not the Emperor. The Emperor commands the Kings, the Kings command the armies. If the Kings decide to go to war, the armies follow. If the Kings decide to stay, the armies stay, no matter what the Empire says. Of course the Legionaires stationed in High Rock serve the Empire, but the Knightly orders and standing armies of the Kings are a different deal.
We'll drive out the Storm cloaks and restore what we own,
With our blood and our steel we'll take back our home,
Down with Ulfric!!
The killer of Kings,
On the day of your death we'll drink and we'll sing!!
We'll drive out the empire from this land that we own
With out blood and our steel we will take back our home
All hail to Ulfric, you are the High King! In your great honor we drink and we sing!
We're the children of Skyrim and we'll fight all our lives, and when Sovngarde beckons, everyone of us dies.
@These pretzels Suck ass Without our "sorry hide" you wouldnt be able to fight the thalmor
@@riften1229 Everyone of you will die by the hand of my righteous Empire! Your cause will be for nothing when youre all dead in sovngarde. Idiot.
All hail clavicus vile!
@PythonFalls What are you doing here. You can't even spell Sovngarde correctly. By the way we are trying to do our part in tamriel. Sovngarde does not concern us.
I agreed with you before making my choice, but I tought "The hell, it's just a game", so I joined the rebellion XD
While I hate the Thalmor more, I do not like Ulfric. When I side with the Imperials, I still kill every Thalmor on sight, and I NEVER offer Ulfric the dignity of being killed by the Dragonborn. He dies, but not by my hand.
I. Cannot. Stand him.
mitchan3763 or just murder all the thalmor burn their bodies and use their blood to forge a blade stronger than wuuthrad then make your own army using mods to kill more thalmor it sounds great
FACTS! Get you the clean up your corpses mod and put all your thalmor bastards on stakes!
Glad I’m not the only one.
A very retarded statement
Why?
I *really, reeeeally* hate that you're right.
Why? He's a bitch
Never fear, under Nord tradition the Dragonborn could challenge Ulfric for the throne.
@@leepreston9637 Unless the Dragonborne is not a Nord.
@@leepreston9637 which is pretty shitty as a tradition. hey,you might be better than me at negotiating,politics and everything else,but i challenge you to a duel. a duel you can't win,but it's according to traditions so i am king now
@@xignum life's not fair.
When I started Skyrim, I always chose Stormcloaks, then I discovered the game's huge lore, and realized that Empire was the best solution for Skyrim, is that awareness or treason? I don't know.. All I know is.. SKYRIM BELONGS TO THE NORDS!!
true
skyrim belongs to the falmer
No it belongs to the companions… because those werewolf tales were true
I chose the imperials at the start because I thought the stormcloaks will doom skyrim and I don't not see this video yet
@@lo11163 Skyrim belongs to the redgaurds
The moment I first played skyrim I seen ulfric as a threat; I'm mad the Stormcloaks where blue, I felt the need to defeat Ulfric I just don't like him, empire forever
Congrats on killing the only good choice for the land the Empires too weak and will never recover forever doomed to serve the Thalmor
@@theprobigdady5656 what?
Really dude pay the attention to the lore.
Titus mede II only 3 years in power, was attacked by the AD that was preparing for the war for almost a century and have a powerful daedric artifact
Titus manage to do the impossible thing survive not glorious but still a magnificent task given his situation and not only survive but manage to make a deal to buy to the empire to recover and reorganize.
In the meantime ulfric was captured ( surrendered instead of dying in battle very glorious nord hypocrisy) and betraying the empire by telling the thalmor how to enter the imperial city, really ulfric is the hero and the emperor a coward? How can you come to that disturbed conclusion do you read the lore or just hear the ulfric speech( that oblivious make him the most brilliant person on earth and the emperor a coward) it's disgusting really to see the injustice committed to the lore on this game.
“Listen I’m not interested in your politics.”
-Cloud Strife
This one of the greatest most underrated stories in a game. At the beginning I thought I was in the right support a rebellion but as the story unfolded I questioned whether I had made the right choice. But I think the question I ultimately asked myself was would I rather live on my knees or die on my feet.
There is no way you can say the Empire is doing the right thing. If Tullius wanted a united Skyrim, then let the Nords rule themselves and ally yourself with them. Assimilating an entire populous into your culture is wrong on every level. Not to mention that at the beginning of the game, Tullius is about to execute you, an innocent person, without a trial.
The Empire is clearly and comically evil in Skyrim.
@@macggnore The Empire is not comically evil they are absolutely doing the right thing. You want perfection where it doesn't exist.
If the Nords wanted an independent Skyrim Ulfric would not have and should not have killed Torygg, a sympathizer to his cause, through diplomacy he would have gotten independence instead he got people killed and killed people himself (he doesn't take dissent lightly killing those who do not support him), he ruined the chances of Talos worship (banning it was never enforced until Ulfric made a stink about it and the Dominion started to crack down further), he is, according to a Thalmor dossier, a Thalmor asset so he is being used by the Aldmeri Dominion to harm Skyrim, half the population of Skyrim is against him because he killed Torygg using a Thu'um which is seen as dishonorable to some, no, assimilating an entire population into your own culture is not wrong:
1). Every culture has been assimilated to some degree or another even in the USA. People CHOOSE to come here and assimilate as with many nations. You have to or the country can no longer function if they just live there but do not accept the values.
2). There is no evidence that I have seen that leads me to believe the Empire force-ably assimilated the Nords into their culture or others for that matter. The provinces were unified and up until now that was not a problem. Supporters of the Empire like the Empire and when the Nords win they knock things over in a drunken stupor, get loud and make quality of life hard for some of the locals.
Assimilation is not bad (unless it is forced) Skyrim was either conquered or chose to assimilate and either way it benefits being part of the Empire, who Tulius admits, is regaining its strength to rebel against the Dominion. Tulius himself even said he would settle in Skyrim in his later years he respects the Nords for their patriotism and fiery spirit.
Ulfric actively SEGREGATES his city with Dunmer and Argonians at the very bottom and his city looks like shit. I'd say that's worse than any assimilation of a populace that for the most part, probably chose to assimilate and if not, many generations have passed where life to them is normal.
Oh, and Tulius was not about to execute you that was one Commander who made the decision. If you recall, Hadvar didn't want to kill you and tried to protect you during Alduin's attack. Tulius also screams "Protect the citizens" when Alduin attacks Helgen.
Lastly, let's not pretend Ulfric would have given them a fair trial either his hot headedness almost got him and his followers killed at the start of the game. For all intents and purposes, Tulius and by proxy, the Empire, won. In the short time Tulius and his legion were there they routed, ambushed, and captured Ulfric. Game, set, match. Alduin was sheer coincidence. Ulfric is an asset to the Dominion meaning his victory is the Dominion's victory. Tulius even says that when you kill him "Don't you understand? This is what they want."
I'm all for independence but Ulfric is not in the right on this one. Especially since he was willing to compromise diplomacy at the peace treaty because he didn't get everything he wanted. Skyrim was apart of the Empire for years he could have waited until after the Aldmeri Dominion was defeated, in good graces with the Empire working as an ally with them much like the other provinces and earned independence that way instead he compromised his own cause.
Plus we have no way of knowing if the other provinces would back him up against the Aldmeri Dominion if he was high king since no one knows, trusts or likes him. He alienated the Empire and now Skyrim is on its own. If they back him up it's ONLY because they don't want the Dominion to gain more power but the Talos worshipers who died because they were discovered by the Thalmor when Ulfric dropped the ball and revealed the ban was not enforced is ENTIRELY on Ulfric.
Oh and he attacks Whiterun,a neutral city, for no reason other than to take it over when the Empire was ready to use diplomacy plus Ulfric regrets what he did in the game when you kill him and talk to him in Sovengarde.
@@TheUnseenPath You're gaslighting to make the Empire seem like the virtuous ones. Ulfric challenged Torygg fair and square... and Torygg accepted. Torygg lost. There is no punishment that needs to be dealt. That was part of the traditions that Ulfric wanted to preserve.
Talos worshipping was banned by the Empire. FULL STOP. It wasn't anybody else's fault aside from the Empire. I don't care what excuse they have, it was banned because of them. The Empire wants to assimilate every culture and homogenize the entire world. Ulfric just wants the Nords to keep their identity and not be ruled by a 1 world government that resides in a different country.
Ulfric attacks Whiterun because Whiterun is the center of Skyrim and their Jarl chose to side with the Empire. Balgruuf made this decision simply because he thought it was the winning side. He was a spineless coward who doesn't deserve to govern anything.
There is no diplomacy to be had when 1 side wants to govern themselves and the other wants to dominate and assimilate you. Why should Ulfric compromise? It's not the Empire's country to begin with-- they should get absolutely nothing and go back to their own land.
"I'm all for independence..." no you're not. You think the Empire is right to come in and rule a land that isn't theirs. If the Empire truly wanted to unite Skyrim against the Dominion, they should respect the culture and traditions of the Nords while aiming to ALLY THEMSELVES WITH THEM, not rule them.
Oh, and it definitely was Tulius that sentences you to die at the beginning of the game. He's standing right there while people are being executed and does absolutely nothing to stand up for you.
@@TheUnseenPathI couldn't have said it better
Skyrim’s independence isn’t a bad cause... but it is poorly timed. The empire needs all of its strength to fight back the thalmor (which I believe they are planning to do after they rebuild their strength). Skyrim’s independence can be discussed/fought over after the larger threat of the thalmor are dealt with.
Also he’s a bit of a racist so... yea he doesn’t have my vote.
Jacob Hartman
Yeah, the xenophobic aspect of the Stormcloak side is what really turned me off to their cause, all lore- and logic-based war-related arguments aside.
I see a lot of their supporters as really stupid, racist brutes who would use any opportunity provided to better themselves and their station versus help their own people. Considering their whole cause is basically headlined as being for THE PEOPLE, this comes off as EXTREMELY hypocritical to me and leaves a bad taste in my mouth. So, just...no thanks.
Calling Ulfric "a bit racist" is probably the understatement of the year.
Skyrim doesnt need the empire's protection with the dragonborn on her side lololololol
@@oskorinn284 Neither does it need Ulfric with the dragonborn so what's the point of that argument again?
@@oskorinn284 i dont know why everyone thinks the dragonborne is a god , yea ur strong af but this id a war , ur not gonna stop an entire country from invading , ur strongest ability is yo summon one dragon that's it , even shitty whiterun guards managed to kill one
since I played oblivion i’ve liked dark elves because of how they look lol so when I heard someone was hating on my fav race I joined up with the legion in a second
Is it me or Rolff and Angrenor were actually right to suspect the dark elves were on the Imperial side? If you go to the Cornerclub I think, and go up the stairs, you'll find an Imperial flag and Imperial heavy armour.
@@octavianpopescu4776 i don't think this is clearly a sign that he is a imperial spy but rather just a imperial sympathizer who wants the cosmopolitan empire to do something to the situation in windhelm.
Good sera
Yeah me too
I'm level 48 and still haven't discovered riverwood
Wow skip the fun stuff and won in 10 mins???
I'm level 85 and still haven't escaped Helgen
I'm level 92 and still on that wagon talking to that horse thief
level 100, still haven’t woken up yet
the stormcloaks are the right choice when youre roleplaying an aldmeri dominion spy
No. The Thalmor want the war to continue the war ending means empire and skrim if independent can stop wasting resources and plan against the dominion. If the rebellion is successful the Thalmor now have two highly motivated enemies to fight off.
> You are exiled son of High Elven royalty, your father was envy of your Auriel blessing
> After Helgen you go to Falkreach to gain gold on bandits and obtain Masque of Clavicus Vile. You are using it every time you serve as Dragonborn
> You save the world by destroying Alduin, vile son of Auriel (if you don't know, Akatosh doesn't exist, Akatosh is just Auriel and Shor combined as imperial lie)
> You become Vampire Lord and defeat Harkon
> You gain Bend Will and beat Miraak
> You help Stormcloak
> You reveal yourself without a masque
> You betray Stormcloak by using Bend Will on Ulfrik and become High Tyrant of Skyrim
> You act like a villain, drink blood from your subjects and support Thalmor
> You say to Serana that she must kill you in public disguised as "Real Dragonborn" with Masque of Clavicus Vile
> You die by a spell that looks like a Shout, entire Skyrim unite to fight against Thalmor that "ruined the land by lying about being a Dragonborn"
> Just as planned
@@indrickboreale7381 akatosh does exist tough, this is nirn not earth, words and symbols have tangible powers in this mythopoeic world thus akatosh is no mere white lie thrown away for a technicalitie but a litteral merging of two deity spheres of influences
Kill Ulfric for feeding Alduin (which he only realises when you meet him after he's dead).
AND kill the Emperor. Because he paid the Dark Brotherhood to do it so he'd be a martyr & the new & improved Emperor can kick Hell out of the Thalmor.
Rexus! The items...
In real life i couldnt care which ever faction someone chooses, as i’ve completed both, but i personally use the nord race more than others, so i like to join the storm cloaks. Occasionally i use the imperial race, and therefore join the imperials. But either way the only thing that matters is having fun in skyrim.
Your the leader of the rebellion but if they captured you...OH GOD'S WHERE ARE THEY TAKING US!?!
efren 938 I don’t know where we’re going but sovengaurd awaits
No I’m not a rebel YOU CANT DO THIS
SK_127 *HALT!*
@@tewch Your not going to kill me!
ARCHERS
Ulfric stormcloak = sponsored by the thalmor to weaken the empire
The Thalmor don't help the Stormcloaks in any way because they don't want him to win. The Thalmor only want the two sides to keep on fighting. In fact, the Stormcloaks winning would screw the Thalmor, because they could no longer run around Skyrim arresting people for Talos worship.
@@hydrocannons7573 But the Storm cloaks winning means that the Empire won't be in Skyrim anymore. Seeing that the only thing that's keeping the Thalmor from invading Skyrim is the White-Gold Concordat. With the empire influence and army in Skyrim, this gives the Thalmor a chance from invading Skyrim. If the Empire itself couldn't withstand the Thalmores, what hope does Skyrim have?
@@IMTHEMOTHERFUCKINGMAILMAN The Redguards of Hammerfell beat the Thalmor by themselves when the Empire threw them under the bus at the end of the war, so Skyrim is not as hopeless against them as you think. Also, Skyrim can easily form an alliance with Hammerfell (who have no love for the Empire or the Dominion) and High Rock.
@@hydrocannons7573 the thalmor do help the stormcloaks it's in the ulfric dossier in the embassy. They help them enough so that they are equal to the empire but not too much so that they would win the civil war.
@@hydrocannons7573 agreed. Not to mention Cyrodill is blocked by imperials, so the Dominion *has* to invade by sea. No Sane person would ever invade skyrim by sea. Not to mention the ores in skyrim.
Many people never read in-game info, the Imperial forces in Skyrim are *not* the army, it's mostly local militia, the main forces are stuck clearing the mountain pass, so even if Ulfric by some miracle wins against local garrison, which is unlikely, soon enough the main Imperial army will arrive and his exhausted and diminished forces would easily lose anyway.
Pretty sure the imperial army is spread thin and tulius is designated with defending skyrim with weakened forces. Not sure backup is coming
@@charlesmartiniii1405 There's literally an imperial report about main forces being stuck clearing the pass.
@@Mr.Heller where can I find this report
@@walterlems402 The note is found at Fort Neugrad it is were the called the Imperial missive / Stormcloak missive depending on which side you're on in the Civil War. to give a answer your question the person is referring to the Stormcloak missive. this message makes it very clear even if Ulfric wins the Civil War he still going to lose because the full might of the Empire is going to invade Skyrim.
Stormcloak missive: Lord Ulfric, Though we drove the Emperor's dogs from Fort Neugrad, they still nip at our heels. The chaos in Helgen is bad enough, but now I have word of a new Imperial force assembling in the south, ready to advance on our position as Pale Pass is clear. Send reinforcements, or all our gains will be for naught.
We'll drive out the stormcloaks and restore what we own ,all hail to M'AIQ and his glorious dishes!
this comment is so underrated lmao
The Dragonborn would not have been captured and put on the block if it where not for the rebellion. Down with the Stormcloak!
Assuming everyone who isn't part of your faction is with the enemy is ignorant. You believe that living your life is a crime, worthy of a painful death, if you aren't part of the Empire? That's what the Empire showed themselves to believe since they just assumed you and the horse thief should also be killed along with Ulfric because you were captured in the same vicinity as someone else.
@@TruOnyxfire Jesus fuck it's a Bethesda game calm down
@@TruOnyxfire Two years late but whatever. Both sides do it unfortunately that's the sad thing about war. And Hadvar does help you escape if you go with him. These are supposed to be people at the end of the day who have their own lives. It's not exactly black and white or red vs blue in this case.
1. The empire started it first by being incompetent
2. The dragon born was put on the block because the empire leadership is also incompetent
@@ROMULUS8384 the thing is that tullius was rushing ulfrics execution because if you saw when you entered helgen the thalmor were already there and it’s common knowledge that the thalmor are funding the civil war so if they had waited to trial ulfric then the thalmor definitely would’ve made a move to recover him to continue the civil war
I joined stormcloaks as a wood elf not because ima huge fan of Ulfric, but because I hate the empire and the collusion with the thalmor.
The empire always strikes back
Ulfric never put my head on a chopping block.
True dat
Yeah, he just got you there.
@@raiderfox7229
No, that was General Tullius.
@@daviddavidson505 No, that was Ulfric, were it not for him the Imperials wouldn't rush the executions to kill Ulfric as fast as they could, were it not for Ulfric you would not get caught in an Imperial ambush, and even if you were, if not for Ulfric, you would at worst get thrown in jail.
Ulfric is a traitor that causes nothing but trouble, the blame for the war and subsequently your execution (Mind you, it was an officer that ordered your execution, you were not on the list) which wouldn't happen were it not for him.
@@raiderfox7229
The incompetent officer of the empire was being directly overseen by General Tullius, who was personally present at the execution. He was easily within earshot of the discussion about the list and could have intervened. If Ulfric was his aim, he should have executed him immediately, rather than wasting time shooting runaway horse thieves and random travelers who got caught in the ambush. Better yet, Ulfric should have simply been killed at the ambush site, if the matter was so urgent.
Further, if Ulfric was able to cause such panic and poor decision making in the imperial chain of command, then Ulfric is right about the weakness of the Empire, and the revocation of its right to rule over Skyrim is a fair claim for him to make. The Empire lost a war against the Thalmor, and gave them surrender terms which are intolerable to the Talos-worshipers of Skyrim. Neither the foreign Thalmor nor the defeated Empire have any rightful claim to the territory.
If we are to also take into account the Thalmor's exploitation and fueling of the rebellion, then imperial intelligence is so shoddy that they don't even realize, or can't even stop, the Thalmor from conducting all sorts of subversive acts of espionage in imperial territory. If this is tolerated out of ignorance, the Empire is criminally incompetent and unfit to rule. If this is tolerated out of fear, the Empire is criminally weak and unfit to rule.
I usually side with the stormcloaks, because the empire in the beginning tried to chop off my head. If not for a dragon intervening. lol
same
I never read 'The Bear of Markarth' so I always assumed it was about the actual bear that hangs out near the orc stronghold. Idk why
Honestly the whole reason I don't like Ulfric. I don't like him and I don't trust him. I'm not an imperial because I love the Empire and think it's perfect, I'm on the imperial side because the stormcloaks are lead by Ulfric Stormcloak, who I think is manipulative, selfish and a bad leader.
Why you think that.
Because there were many other reasonable ways to fight back against the dominions growing influence but he picked the absolute worse way which has in turn aided the dominion in keeping skyrim under its thumb. In short his not sharpest sword in the chest but he gets an A for effort and a pass to sovngarde i suppose.
@@cathedral1375 The Civil War is good for the Thalmor as long as neither side wins.
Jolly Duck okay, but we're talking about why ulfric, regardless if he was right or not to fight against the thalmor, was a bad leader.
Aaron Brown
He’s not straightforward with his people and as far as military leadership goes, if it weren’t for his lieutenant, he’d lose far more than he does. Not to mention he takes credit for all the wins despite the fact that the only reason he ever wins the Dragonborn but he acts like it was his amazing leadership and strength.
Ulfric: All hail the Nords!!!
Me and everybody except for Nords: Ummm...nah
Khajits r better
@@luxurious_lemon2736 kahjiits are part of the aldmer dominion due to something the thalmor took credit for and potentially didn't do anything to resolve which is sad to say the least, poor Kahjiits being tricked by the tall elves
Redguards be like: "Fuck waiting around for the ponderous Empire to get it's act together. Clean up your own lands".
Hammerfell is the America of Elder Scrolls. Everyone is armed and they are all corrupt.
@@mhuh Everyone's armed everywhere in Tamriel. Ever start a fight in a tavern? Even the little old lady in the corner is packing an iron dagger!
Also Irish, to make one tiny correction about the population of Skyrim: Remember, many of the Nords are IN the Legion too. So the people we see back home are the ones 'left' behind. The more 'uneducated' ones since most of the actually strong, skilled, and most likely, smart, people all joined in with the Legion or are otherwise a part of the Empire elsewhere. Ergo, the majority of the remaining population being things like farmers, miners, and so on, makes a lot of sense.
Ulfric and Galmar were both part of the Legion initially IIRC.
Also nords are based off Vikings. Much like today’s military those who are not front line infantry must do other jobs to keep the infantry going
I think they've picked the weakest. I've had civilians beat my ass. But takin down whole camps of soldiers
Wow. Showing a lot of ignorance here aren't you. Being a farmer, miner, or other laborer does not mean a person is "uneducated" (which is just a modern, pc way of telling someone that you think they're stupid and need to shut up). If you ever actually talk to people who hold these jobs you will find that they are smarter than you think and have a different way of looking at the world because they live in a different manner.
It is very foolish to assume that just because these Nords didn't join the empire that wants to let an outside force control them, that they are stupid or should be ignored.
Uhm....yes, that is a very true thing, for real life. And in real life, you'd have a point. But this isn't real life, and there's very big difference between real life and fiction.
There's very little to no evidence (primarily because I doubt that the game-devs thought about it) to show that Skyrim has much of an education system beyond people teaching their kids to read. Above that, what higher education that exists still appears to be primarily for mages and the upper class, who probably were tutored, and how many upper class homes and mages tend to have lots of books. But aside of that, there appears to be a very low education level on the whole.
As I said, many of the more talented, strong, and probably educated Nords are in the Legions. Hell, look no further than after you kill your first dragon. A guard says to another guard, "There were no dragons back then, idiot!", referring to the time of Tiber Septim. And in fact, there WERE. Yes, I know that's only one example, but I feel it is indicative of the misunderstanding and misinformation that might plague the population of Skyrim that's still there.
Even if they aren't as uneducated on the whole as you say, it also doesn't mean their mindset is right. I seriously doubt they were told the whole story about the Great War, beyond Imperial propaganda or the scattered stories told by returning soldiers. So to many Nords, it could be that one day they were told the war was over, then the next, suddenly all this Altmer in armor started walking around telling people they could no longer worship Talos, all because people at the top made a treaty that the people had no idea about. Balgruuf even states his frustration about how the treaty was signed without the Jarls even being asked their thoughts on it.
When I first played Skyrim, I always sided with the stormcloaks. But recently I have been leaning about the lore. And definitely suggest going the imperial way.
The weakened imperial legion decides to wait longer to gather strength. I think that's rather idiotic considering elves live for hundreds of years and are already more advanced in technology. Pretty stupid of them to bend the knee if you ask me
When I first played skyrim I sided with the Imperials. But after knowing that you end up killing the emporer, Elisf don't no jack about government and realising at the start of the game they were going to chop my head off for getting a free trip in the wagon I kinda changed my mind.
"Dont you see ??!!! all that matters is Elven Supremacy"
"Skyrim belongs to the Snow Elves!" - semiquote
You just changed my mind about who to side with
Sooooo did anyone else kill ulfric useing the soul tear shout? I sent his ass to the soul caren. NO SOVNGARDE FOR HIM!
you are not a brother nord
1. Create a personal division of warriors named Dragonborn's Fist
2. Kill elves while ignoring Imperial-Stormcloak civil warm
3. Prove yourself more by killing Thalmor and taking elven territory.
4. Choose who you'll serve... High King or Emperor?
5. Perform well as faction general.
6. Eliminate High King/Emperor and become ruler of the nation.
7. Go mad and commit elven genocide.
8. The dream no longer needs it dreamer... Enlightenment... Sanity.
9. Sanely destroy Aldmeri Dominion
10. Die in glorious battle. Countless Elven chieftains vs lone Dragonborn. CHIM... Apotheosis... Godhood.
Historically in the elder scrolls universe the empire is doomed regardless of this decision
Historically speaking, the devs are most likely to have something catastrophic happen to Skyrim within at most a few years after the plot ended, so that the next game doesn't have to factor in thousands of unknowable and contradictory player choices.
The dragons might of been defeated, but Skyrim itself was doomed the moment the writers thought it was a good idea to have the player pick a side in it's little civil war.
Shgon Dunstan facts 95% sure neither ending is cannon. Just gonna place my bets on the seasons unending theory.
I think the choice the dragonborn makes is more important than a single line of text that can be changed
I felt so bad when you attack Whiterun as a stormcloak. Jarl Balgruuf is nice and he respects you. That's why i once joined the Empire but, they are Dickheads. BUT i really like Balgruuf. there needs to be a option that Balgruuf side with the Stormcloaks. so sad,
Balgruuf is so likable because he's a lot of what Ulfric should be. Though, in some ways, Ulfric is a lot of what Balgruuf should be. They're the Yin and Yang of Nord Culture in Skyrim. Balgy is more concerned about his hold and his people than he is about the war. He's experiencing the devastation most of all between all the Jarls because White Run is Skyrim's focal point of Trade. It's the central Hub of the Country. So Balgruuf has a greater idea about the situation than the other Jarls. However, because he tries so hard to stay Neutral, it's what makes him seem weak. Balgruuf, like Ulfric, is aware of how horrible the Thalmor are and the effect they're having on Skyrim. Yet is unaware of the Empire's plan to one day strike back at the Aldmeri Dominion. Kept out of the loop for HIS own good, but it in turn isn't for the good of Skyrim. If the Empire could have found a way to spread that news like butter on hot toast throughout Skyrim then the Holds and their people would chill and start working together to get ready for that day. But Thalmor agents and poor decisions made by the Imperial Military are the fly in that batch of ointment. As well as any leaks in the system. Hired assassin's who kill messengers and snag the info, or thieves that do it without bloodshed. Or someone who gets drunk under the table and starts blabbing. As well as fiery patriots who bark anything close to that truth at condescending Thalmor agents in the area.
@@MetalMoose13 so what you are saying is 'if only the blades were still around'
@Hlombe Mpuntsha Kind of? Though, let's face it, the Blades you have to work with in Skyrim suck. "We serve the Dragon Born. But kill Parthunax or we won't help you anymore, even if you don't want to kill him. Because we're here to serve you but not respect what you want...." Yeah, makes total sense. Fuck the Blades. Dragonborn should make a better organization. That kind of hypocrisy and short sighted thinking will only lead to that organization failing again.
@@MetalMoose13
Oh , you mean those two traitors?
Well they died recently before i stopped playing skyrim.
Balgruuf for high king! We should start a campaign now to see if we can make it cannon
There was nothing stopping Ulfric from just creating an army and enacting guerilla warfare on the Thalmor and protecting shrines with the Imperials willingly turning a blind eye to Thalmor fights. It wouldve set the stage for the 2nd Great War, had Imperials changing uniforms and arguing about helping their comrades but, being stuck in politics and Cyrodiil still regrouping. Man should have never fought man. I would argue that Reachmen ownership of the Reach was immensely more peaceful and fair than Stormcloaks.
I've been reading a lot of (ingame) books and getting a feel for the history... And if you ask me, the *Emperor Himself* is not only an ally of but is actually _an asset_ of the *Thalmor* directly!! (0_0)
My case: The Thalmor made their demands against the Empire through a political emissary allegedly hoping to avoid a war in the first place... The Emperor is said to have refused to bow to the demands of the elves (such as banning of Talos worship)... but according to written accounts, the Thalmor already anticipated this rejection (...curious...), where they turned over their cart (that was allegedly filled with diplomatic "gifts") and dumped it on the floor - revealing over a hundred severed heads of former Blade agents...
The Great War begins in earnest - and many end up dying and/or making a permanent move to Sovngarde... but the Emperor himself is never killed (long story short - curious events transpiring)... And finally, after both sides are exhausted and suffering from major war fatigue - what happens?
...The White-Gold Concordat is signed... and? *The Thalmor get exactly what they asked for in the first place!*
So - you're telling me a war was fought _to a stalemate_ and then the Empire just gives in to the very demands it went to war over in the first place _without blinking an eye_ at all??? (0_0)
Moreover, one cannot say this makes a lot of tactical sense either... the Thalmor are spread thin and are fighting a war on multiple fronts as well... Hammerfall *refused* to sign the treaty along with the rest of the Empire - and they have managed to push the Thalmor back... Why is it so hard to imagine Skyrim doing the same on it's own? Or perhaps in an alliance with Hammerfall and others?
...What really sucks the most though (IMHO), is how both sides seem to have very valid arguments and intentions that are in the right places! Everybody hates the Thalmor... But one side is ready to fight them directly, and the other side appears to be bidding it's time... In this manner, it's the Empire itself that appears (and is evidenced) to be very complicit in Thalmor operations, turning a blind eye to it's own citizens being dragged off in the night to be tortured and likely to never be seen again...
All arguments made by Imperial Apologists seem like propaganda when it's *your* loved ones being dragged off in the night to be tortured by foreigners, for no other reason other than their practice of the local religion that's been around for centuries...
Either every political adviser in the Empire went brain-dead (i.e. feigning ignorance over what kind of turmoil this would thrust the Empire in), or... there are Thalmor infiltrators within the Empire... Infiltrators who _knew_ the Concordat would never be signed without a war, and thus not only allowed this war to take place but _orchestrated it_ so that the lives subsequently lost would be used as a bargaining chip for a "temporary peace" that would have never been accepted otherwise...
Ulfric isn't the messiah - and he's made his share of mistakes... But an Imperial-Conquered Skyrim would be weaker over-all and would eventually begin to lose it's national identity... At which case - the Thalmor will have easy pickings over the Empire they infiltrated through deceit and cunning...
Just food for thought :-D
It IS interesting and funny to view how other people view the Skyrim Civil War situation... I wonder if it parallels to real life? ;-P
But if the emperor *is* as such trying so hard to handle Tamriel over to the Thalmor, why would he literally kill himself in order to put forth a stronger sense of revolt in his fellow men?
I don't see the decision for the Concordat as a blunder at all, because unlike the Dominion, Tamriel is a vastly varied place. Argonians, humans and orcs, all these races reproduce at rates that make elves look like turtles.
Any war between the Empire and the Dominion that ends with a temporary peace treaty is inevitably going to lead to a final human victory. Because 40 years from now, there will be around 9 times more humans than before, but as long as elves go, they're likely to still be in the same generation, with the exact same numbers they were before.
What regions like Skyrim and Hammerfall are doing with their pointless civil wars that only end up killing nords, redguards and imperials is wasting the advantage Titus bought at the cost of his own life.
@@mordirit8727 --- Firstly, thanks for reading my comment and adding to it. (^_^)
TBH, I had to double check what you were talking about because I honestly didn't know - I've played several days worth of Skyrim (...not all at once, mind you), but as-of-yet I still haven't done any Dark Brotherhood quests or contracts (just not my personal style - and if it was possible to SUBDUE opponents rather than kill them, that's what I'd be doing) ... So the fact that Titus makes an appearance and you get to kill him (via the Dark Brotherhood quests) is completely new news to me!
He (Titus) seems like an upright guy - he believes in what he's doing and what he's done... In and of itself, it's only speaking of his character, though, and _not_ about any alliances that took place behind closed doors... If my theory is accurate (and likely, we'll never know either way), this either makes him _more_ sinister in the sense that his betrayal of _his own empire_ is something he truly believes is necessary and just - or it means he's so far under some form of mind control that he's unaware of his actions and is more of a puppet on a string to the Thalmor... and oddly enough - the latter would explain his complicit nature in the assassination as well...
...However, if his submission to the Thalmor is exactly as it's been presented to us, and the signing of the White-Gold Concordat was truly his best effort to prevent more bloodshed... Then I have to say that the Thalmor deserve to rule all of Tamriel - because they outfoxed the Empire on all fronts...
Skyrim: Birthplace of Talos, Home of the Warrior-Nords... They'd rather die than give up their hero-god... and would even view such a conflict as a holy crusade in and of itself. There would be HONOR in fighting such a battle - even if it meant Sovngarde...
...And if the Emperor and his advisers didn't realize this, and didn't think that allowing the Thalmor to kidnap civilians _of their own empire_ would result in a civil war... Then I'm sorry to say it - but they're a bunch of stupid schmucks - they deserve their empire to fall apart because they're not capable of holding it together...
Either way... If it was me in this game, I'd stand with the independent Hammerfell *OR* Skyrim... The Empire just isn't what it used to be - and the last Emperor to be Dragonborn died with the last age, so who's to say that the gods themselves even approve of such an Empire anymore??
And who knows? If Ulfric and the Stormcloaks canonically win the civil war, the likelihood of a Hammerfell-Skyrim Alliance against the Thalmor is much less a possibility and much more of a guarantee... And with that kind of message being sent to the Thalmor (i.e. "We fight for our own Sovereignty - and not even the defeat of the Empire will bring us to our knees."), it's also just as likely that they'd back down themselves - as many High Elves only support the Thalmor out of fear, and if they ever loose their swagger... methinks the Summerset Isle itself would be having a civil war of it's own... :-]
@@NemaselsNeo I'll read the rest of your post later, but for now I'd like to point something out:
You are assuming that the Empire has been completely outfoxed by the Aldmeri, and it's hard not to think of it that way, but if you look closely you can see that there are embers of a future insurgency against the elves already in Skyrim.
My main point for not believing the empire and emperor are already under the Dominion's... well, dominion, is the Redguard rebellion.
See, a little time before Skyrim started it's civil war, Hammerfell also rebelled against the Dominion and the Empire. After getting the peace treaty in Cyrodil, the elves were immediately challenged by Hammerfell. When this happened, they committed what is likely the biggest tactical mistake the Aldmeri have made in this entire story: they sent what survived of their army to take Hammerfell by force. Their tacticians believed it to be more than enough, and it *would* have been...
But the Empire pulled the rug under them, in a rather nice way too: see, when Hammerfell decided not to accept the White-Gold Concordat, Titus decided to renounce Hammerfell as part of the Empire. This is *seen* as a weak minded move, but look at what actually ended up happening. With Hammerfell no longer being considered a part of the Empire, all redguards and other citizens of Hammerfell who had been part of the Imperial Legion up to that point were free to disband. Some chose to stay with the empire but what we hear is that a good number of them, bitter with what they saw as a betrayal from Titus, left the legion and went back home... Where now the Thalmor were dealing with a much stronger force than they had prepared for.
This completely wrecked the plans the Aldmeri had for conquering Hammerfell, and they were eventually forced to accept the Treaty of Stros M'kai and retreat from Hammerfell to, so far, not yet return.
If the Empire *was* so far under the Thalmor's boot, they'd never have taken an action that so clearly stabbed them in the back. Titus managed to, with one political move, save Hammerfell from conquest *and* free the province from the Thalmor altogether, without ever being questioned by the Thalmor... At the cost of his public image, since the redguard ended up thinking he abandoned them when, in reality, all he did was find the perfect way to free them.
I tend to look at Titus as a tragic hero. When you look at the reports of the war and what took place after it, he seems like a man who is willing to always take the best possible road for the Empire, no matter what taking those paths ends up costing him. I guess you could say I have faith in him when he says his death will lead to a better chance in the war.
@@mordirit8727 --- Thanks, I appreciate it if you do! ...And I do understand that time is of the essence, and is arguably the most important resource we have to spend... So, I do hope we're both spending it wisely here. (^_^)
I completely comprehend your perspective... and much of it is speculation - much like my own perspective appears to be... Honestly, we're both just viewing events and then positing what might be happening behind the scenes... Who knows the actual reason behind _why_ these events happened? Perhaps not even the writers themselves had thought about it - or perhaps laid it out neutrally (and unfinished) so that us players could choose which side sounded like the most righteous to us...
Truth is, I wanted to like the Empire because I thought Hadvar was a badass and much more of a likable character than Ralof (other than the fact he just goes along with your execution until it's interrupted)... I even spent an entire time on one character being strongly allied with the Empire because it felt right at the time and was on par with what seemed right...
...But as I did more research and talked to characters, I ended up changing my mind...
And starting a new character.
Ulfric (IMHO) is just as equally the tragic hero as Titus - and feels obligated on behalf of his entire heritage to fight and win this war... otherwise, all who have fought and died thus far will all have been for naught.
In his introduction dialogue (when you meet him the "first" time in Windhelm), he doesn't seem to be the arrogant, self-serving tyrant that so many make him out to be. He seems deeply troubled about this war - resistant to spark conflict that will cost lives unnecessarily - while his advisor, on the otherhand, is anxious to start bashing heads... I was able to dig up this portion of it:
_"I fight for the men I've held in my arms, dying on foreign soil! I fight for their wives and children, whose names I heard whispered in their last breath. I fight for we few who did come home, only to find our country full of strangers wearing familiar faces. I fight for my people impoverished to pay the debts of an Empire too weak to rule them, yet brands them criminals for wanting to rule themselves! I fight so that all the fighting I've already done hasn't been for nothing! I fight... because I must."_
And! ...At the end of all this dialogue, he (and I'm paraphrasing here) admits that he'd rather step down and not have to take this role - that he'd rather this conflict not be here in the first place... but that he feels it is his duty to his fellow countrymen and his obligation to those who followed him and died to do the right thing - and for him, this is standing by his country and his countrymen...
And sure - I'm taking him at his word here... but I suppose we're taking Titus at his word here as well, aren't we? ;-)
IMHO... Truthfully... I hate this civil war.
It seems unnecessary and completely fabricated from miscommunications (at best) and prideful arrogance (at worst)...
The Empire *SHOULD* have looked the other way on as many Talos related "crimes" as was possible for them - even at the possibility of provoking the Thalmor... They should have made secret outreaches to the Nords (in particular), letting them know this "treaty" is only a means to an end and show them through their actions that they have no love for the Thalmor any more than the Nords do...
The Talos-Worshipers *SHOULD* have just kept their worship secret - biding their time in the shadows as the Empire gives them hints that this "treaty" with the Thalmor is temporary and aiding them in whatever way they can in an official capacity if any of them are caught doing something as innocuous as worshiping Talos...
But _Cest La Vie_ - and sometimes so is the works of fiction as well... But since we're being forced to take sides in this fictional conflict (more or less), I identify more with the Nords and with Ulfric - not because I'm a Nord myself, but I identify with their stance on the sovereignty of their people and their right to regulate their own affairs... And despite me not being a Nord myself (character-wise) - my actions have proven me as one of their countrymen, and they see me as such!
...Even when I'm playing as one of those damnable elves... ;-D
@@NemaselsNeo I'm sorry to say but I think your reading of Ulfric is a little bit naive.
Yes, his speeches are quite heroic and good willed, specially the last one if you win the war with him.
At the same time, Titus doesn't get any great speeches in Skyrim, only one very sad soliloquy as he waits for you to murder him for the Dark Brotherhood.
But in politics one should always look towards results and ignore words as much as possible, for words hold no weight in the hands of politicians.
For example, Ulfric *does* talk about wishing to avoid any sort of unnecessary bloodshed: those are his *words* .
Then, when the time comes to fight Whiterun, Balgruf's adviser asks if he would face Ulfric Face to Face (like Ulfric did High King Thorig) and Balgruf states that he would be glad to, but believes that after proving himself against the King he would prefer to prove his army.
So, if Ulfric was *truly* honest about fighting only when necessary and avoiding bloodshed wherever possible, you'd expect him not to care about showing people his army's power, and simply default to challenging Balgruf to a duel, saving thousands of nord lives in the process. What does Ulfric do? He never even considers a duel, and simply sends in the Stormcloack to face Whiterun.
Because that's what Ulfric is. A lot of empty, beautiful words, but if you peek behind the curtain of what he says he's doing, there's just cowardice and hatred.
If your reasoning for not trusting the Empire is the fear of them being influenced by the Thalmor, know this: Ulfric is the greatest ally the Thalmor have in Skyrim. Just read their report on him at the Embassy. Pretty much all of his actions in this war are a result of the torture the Thalmor imposed on him, and *everything* he does goes perfectly according to their plan. Thanks to Ulfric they have an excuse to have a much stronger justicar enforcing troupe in Skyrim than before, thanks to him an entire legion of the Empire can be lost (if you kill them by joining Ulfric), leading to a weakened Skyrim *and* Empire, and thanks to him even that segregated Skyrim can't really do much, because the way he rose to power makes sure nords are the only ones on his side, so even if he gets to sit in the High King's throne, nearly every Breton, Khajit, Argonian, Redguard, Altmer, Bosmer, Dunmer and Imperial in Skyrim will stand against him, guaranteeing more and more years of civil war.
The fear the Thalmor had at the end of the Great War was that their losses were comparable to the Empire's, and humans reproduce much, *much* faster than elves do so it'd be likely that, in a few generations, the Empire could destroy the Aldmeri with fully renewed force. Ulfric Stormcloack is making great attempts at guaranteeing that this will never happen, and that the next scene of the Great War will be the genocide of mankind, just like the Thalmor, the people pulling his strings behind the scenes, wanted all along.
Ulfric is not a bad guy, but yes, he is misguided and thinking too much about revenge. As for a fair fight between him and Torygg, it was not. According to the witnesses at the duel, all Ulfric did was shout at Torygg then went right up to him when he was down and stabbed him. That is not an honorable act much less a duel. Even if the Thum is an ancient Nord art it's an art that most Nords don't know anymore so Stormcloak supporters don't have an argument to claim it had "honor".
He is a racist. So yes, he IS a bad guy.
@@axeldornelles5292
I'm talking in the context of his best intentions and love for Skyrim. Whether you or I like Ulfric or not is irrelevant only facts. FACT: He truly loves and wants what is best for Skyrim. But his methods, and such as you say a racist, I disagree with. I may choose the Empire, but despite Ulfric's flaws I can still recognize his good intentions even if I wholly disagree with him.
It is a fact that he is a racist. That FACT is the reason he is disliked by me.
Also he doesn't want whats best for Skyrim, but for the nords in Skyrim only.
He is a racist and a xenophobe and that is more than enough to make him a shitty person and, most definetely, a bad guy.
There is no such thing as being a racist and not being a bad guy. If you're a racist, then you're bad and that's it. Fantasy or not, racists are shit and should be treated as such.
Having him killed was a moment of joy in Skyrim.
@@axeldornelles5292
And just what is best for Skyrim? What this simple question means to you, to me and a whole bunch of other fans (and Ulfric) almost everyone has a different worldview. To Ulfric, wanting the best for Skyrim is EQUAL to what's best for the Nords. To him, it means the same thing. This is the characters' worldview and there are fans who share this view. Are Stormcloaks likely to be racist? Yes. But so can elves and I am an elf. Are ALL Stormcloaks racist? No. Just angry.
@@axeldornelles5292 I'm an argonian and i fight proudly for the storm cloaks
It's not about "paying taxes" it's about fighting the Dominion and survival. We can talk about independence after.
In my first play through I pick the imperials. After learning most of details I realize Ulfric didnt understand the full situationand the fact he didnt help the dark elves put that nail in coffin.
I dont get why it matters what happens in the "future" bc u dont get to see the long term effects of it, its like ok hes dead now what😂
The Empire clearly did not realize that Ulfric can start a rebellion this size. If they do, they will execute him when they prisoned him. And it is the empire that betrayed its own people at the Markarth accident. The Empire can either refuse Ulfric's request for Talos worship or support Ulfric against Thalmor after they allow him to worship Talos. But no, they let Ulfric worship Talos in Markarth, then let Thalmor enter Skyrim to arrest its own faithful and Ulfric. And for those who blame Ulfric, remember that Thalmor never gives up on destroying the empire. It is not like without Ulfric, Thalmor will never enter Skyrim. No, they will because there are so many people who refuse to turn Talos down, Talmor can always catch one in Skyrim and demand to enter.
That is why Stormcloaks had many ex-legionnaires because they are not just upset by white gold concordat. but the empire sold out very easily after they bleed for the empire without a second thought. And Skyrim under Empire control will have a puppet high queen ( I can't tell if any imperial jarl actually supports her like those who support Ulfric ) with half of its region under control by Legion, which will be summoned back and abandon Skyrim when the war resumes. As they abandon Morrow Wind during the oblivion crisis.
Ulfric Stormcloak: The King in the North!!
The king in the north!!
Or should I call him ... "the king who lost the north"
@@babyray5643 you shouldn't
Da king in day norf
High king Torygg was raised by a vampire which is solitudes court wizard and a master illusionist. Shes the one pulling the strings she even has some audio lines that says jarl elisif is expandable and will be replaced in months.
Im no elf hater but i only think its fair that skyrim and the nords deserve freedom of religion!
Freedom of Religon for a few months before The Dominion takes them sounds good.
Another interesting detail is that the Empire only sent sent one legion to skyrim to put down the rebellion they keeping the rest of its Legions in Cyrodiil. Preparing to fighting Aldmeri Dominion
And that is all it took to win the war before Alduin showed up.
Does it matter who dies in the end when our Altmer overlords finally succeed in weakening the provinces enough to wipe out the beast races and take control of all others? Even the elder scrolls themselves can't stop the horrid Thalmor. I guess you could say the Thalmor are like... a feeble but deadly plague.
"When the empire surrendered to the Aldmeri Dominion, they shamed us all." Ulfric may be wrong, but that doesn't make the Empire right.The White-Gold Concordat should have never been signed, now they are weaker than ever because of it. Hammerfell rejected it, left the Empire, and drove out the Thalmor by themselves. Now imagine what the EMPIRE could do had they stuck it out a bit longer. They are not the great war time strategists you are making them out to be, and why the fall of the empire will be sooner than we think.
Hammerfell never left the Empire, they were kicked out and left to die by their so called ally, the Empire
@@thoruszwolf4153 You do know that it was former imperial legioners that beated Dominion in Hammerfel right?
@@troller8680 I'm sure many Redguards in the Legion left the Empire to fight for their homeland, just like the Stormcloaks, but this doesn't change the fact that the Empire betrayed Hammerfell and fought against them after they refused to submit to the Dominion
@@thoruszwolf4153 It was actually an imperial general who was ordered to get back to Cyrodiil (in order to support main army in retaiking Imperial city) who left behind many soldiers on purpose (called them "invalids" and discharged them), and this soldiers later became a core of resistance against dominion. Also empire let Hammerfel go when it came to Concordat agreements and redguard refusal to give in and never attacked them. The only thing that empire did wrongly was concordat, but again, they didnt knew that Dominion was weakened too much because of war.
@@troller8680 The forces General Decianus left in hammerfell against direct orders from the Emperor, aided in pushing Arrenelyas forces from Skaven during the Great War, there is no indication that they continued to serve Hammerfell against the Empire.
The Empire didn't let Hammerfell go so easily, just like in Skyrim, they fought back. Bjartur in a conversation with the redguard Ahtar says hammerfell fought both the Empire and the Dominion, and this also explains why the Imperial Legion wasn't able to aid in retaking Markarth, and only came back to Skyrim in 4e181, after Ulfric put down the native uprising in markarth
You may prove some good points but I still have to side with the Stormcloaks because well let’s be real here, the imperials tried to kill you which you later find out your Dragonborn and therefore I wouldn’t join the imperials because they almost killed the worlds hero.
Or the world's most dangerous assassin and blood thirsty vampire lord. Take your pick.
Not everyone’s perfect ;)
I will never kill Ulfric. Again, anyway. I did do it once just to see what happens and then went back to the pro-Stormcloak save forevermore.
I've been a stormcloack for YEARS... and I think you just changed my mined
Lol see no fun being a pussy
JJ souls
You absolute *idot*
i hate having to choose..i mean both sides want the dominion gone, and they want to protect their home, but one side is banishing worship, and the other side is hateful to elves, if i join the stormcloaks the people of whiterun will hate me, but if i join the empire the man who helped me escape helgen will feel betrayed...AAAAAAAAA MORAL DILEMA
This is brilliant! I agree with your theory completely.
I dont completely disagree, but what every imperial supporter fails to mention is,
If the stromcloaks were to win, they arent as hopeless against the Elves as some might think.
One reason for this is because the Stormcloaks have the Dragonborn on their side. Why am I assuming this? Well TES:V is canon and if the dragonborn were to side with the legion, there wouldn’t be an independant Skyrim and we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
So if the Stormcloaks ever had to defend Skyrim against the aldmeri dom. It is safe to assume the Dragonborn has sided with them.
The Dragonborn is insanely powerful. Having several dragons on his side, being the champion of “and therefore being supported by” almost any daedric prince. Being in command of almost al guilds in Skyrim, also dawnguard/vampires.
The second big reason is religion. In the ES universe, the “gods” actually exist and actually influence things, unlike in our world.
The more people believe in a certain divine, the more powerful and influential this divine becomes. The elves dont want to erase Talos worship without a reason. If nobody would believe in talos anymore, it would actually be like Talos didn’t exist.
The power the nords would have with Talos on their side is what the elves fear.
Nords fighting without knowing that sovngard awaits them are absolute trash.
When discussing ES lore you have to stop thinking in real life military logic.
The Divines very rarely intervene in mortal affairs unlike the Dadrea that get involved at every chance they get. If all they needed was faith to win then the war would have been over before the Dragonborn had even arrived. An how do you know the Dragonborn canonically sides with the stormcloaks? Where is the evidence?
There is also the fact that Ulfric is actually just another Thalmor puppet as his dossier says in the embassy and is just creating this conflict to weaken the empire even further.
49mozzer I dont say the DB canonically chooses the SC, but if the debate on whether or not the Stormcloaks can keep skyrim liberated after driving out the empire, You have to assume that the db sides with them.
Cause if he didnt, we couldnt have this debate
I remember when you meet Ulfric Stormcloak in Helgen Keep after escaping from Helgen, he will urge you to get moving. He will say, "Up the stairs! Quickly!", "Move! Up the tower!", "Come on! Before the dragon brings down the whole tower!", and "What are you waiting for? Up the stairs! Now!
Didn’t even watch it but The Legion is the best hope for a unified Skyrim 🤷🏻♂️
If Player Character get Fus-Ro-Dah'd he will lose too
Stormcloaks and empire should make truce, because in the end thalmor wins no matter if stormcloaks or empire kills the other.
They make a temporary one in the quest season unending
Letter in the thalmar embassy proves Ulfric is actually working for the Thalmar to creat unrest before an invasion.
@LockNES The ledger in the embassy clearly regards him as an agent. Whether he was brainwashed or cut a deal in order to become High king. Either way he is still playing you and Talos only knows what the end game is.
@@johndoolan3428 An unwilling. They are just using him indirectly to weaken the empire. He is not actually plotting with them.
only thing that letter actually proves is that Thalmor consider Ulfric valuable to their efforts not that he is siding with them in anyway
@@soyouknow8207 they refer to him as their agent
Hey man, just going to point oot a few things, I wasn't sure if you intentionally ignored them as a kind of Imperial role play, but, here they are -'J
~Tullius wasn't in Skyrim until after Toryggs death, and except for Toryggs wife who doesn't like the nords foolish culture, it is agreed by his council that it was a legitimate challenge that was ratified by the High King... also, I doubt it was fought in the throne room, as a gate guard to the city was witness
~ When Ulfric escaped the Thalmor, the Great War had not ended, for he took part in the Battle of Red Ring when the Empires forces destroyed the Dominion forces and retook the Imperial city
~ Ulfric *is* right, general Tullius even admits that most of what he says about the Empire is true when you meet him at the Thalmor embassy
~ The Markarth Incident was when the Thalmor came to Markarth and ordered the arrest of Ulfric and his men, to which the Empire obeyed.. this was the founding day of the Stormcloaks
~ It was while Ulfric was imprisoned by the Empire that his Father died, Ulfric only became Jarl after his release and the people insisted he take the seat of Jarl, even though he gave up that path when he joined the Greybeards... it was kind of a democratic election, voice of the people.
~ The Empire was victorious over the Thalmor in the Great War, in well over half a year everything the Thalmor could throw at the Empire was put down and regarded as piecemeal, partial and unsystematic... the Dominion had effectively lost and was just throwing every thing they could at the empire in desperation.... lucky for them the Emperor started the negotiation for peace by saying he was desperate for peace at any price... Advantage; THALMOR
~ The Thalmor could not have defeated the Empire, as can be seen with their incredible difficulty fighting and losing the war in Hammerfell after the Empire told the Redguards to Eff off... how can the Thalmor defeat the Entire Empire if they can't even defeat the most heavily devastated province that had been in the midst of a long civil war right when the Aldmeri invaded?
~ You say one of Toryggs Vampire Nannies quotes, but you left out how Ulfric was continuously talking about Skyrims independence at the moot, and when asked why Torygg didn't declare independence, she tells you straight up "Torygg would Never Betray The Empire"... seems to be a bit of a contradiction to her statement that if Ulfric had just asked 100 times instead of only 99, he may have agreed with him
~ The taxes and tariffs the Empire has set on the people has driven them into poverty, that money being funneled to the Thalmor as stated in the White-Gold Concordat.
- And the Imperials oppressing the religious freedom of the people, and handing them over to be tortured to death by the Thalmor is probably a more pressing concern... a few thousand people tortured to death in exchange for peace may seem like a great bargain for the Empire who see people as a mere renewable resource, but to Ulfric and the people being sacrificed, not so much
~I'd say Ulfric seeking to make alliances with the surrounding provinces is thinking about the future, heck, Hammerfell has the same objectives and resentment for the Empire, their likeliness to join the Stormcloak alliance is almost a given
... one last thing, with how much the Imperials have been fighting the Thalmors enemies to enforce their will, it would not surprise me if in the next game if the Thalmor launch another invasion into Hammerfell, the Empire aids them in its conquest, after all, they did promise them southern hammerfell in the White-Gold Concordat... the same treaty that led them to persecute Talos Worshipers like Ulfric... could be interesting, suffice it to say, I am no supporter of the Empire, after Titus Mede conquered The Empire that we all loved from the previous Elder Scrolls games, it just hasn't been the same
The empire needs the dragonborn to restore the line of kings with a nord army at his back and the will of talos in heart
While Ulfric was spending 10 years locked in a castle to master the voice, the High King was chasing maids and y'all call it unfair that he tore the King with his shout. Milk drinkers.
Praise talos
In the Dossier it says that Ulfric was "allowed" to escape meaning they intentionally did nothing when Ulfric booked it.
you changed my mind.