Also, if enemy team has Rammus, Malphite or K'Sante you should prioritize black cleaver as % penetration item because they have armor scaling so by reducing their armor you'll also reduce their damage.
To summarize shortly. Lethality is better against low armored targets aka Assassins onto squishies. % Ignore or Reduction is better onto higher armor targets or late game (most champions have 90+ base armor at Lv18) Defense Ignore is for yourself and does not lower the targets armor for others. Defense Reduction applies as a debuff and it benefits your team overall if they are mostly physical dps, in addition it also lowers the scaling onto armor champions like Rammus Malphite K'Sante etc making them deal reduced damage/scaling as well.
Hey, I was wondering how does Yasuo Ult's %bonus armor pen functions with other penetration items and if it's ever worth building, this is assuming you can ult targets.
If I recall whichever has the higher number is the only one that will work , u can experiment on the practice dummy as well to confirm. Nowadays Riot makes sure that your armor never goes Negative value 😂
its only on yasuo crits that he gains 50% bonus armor pen for 15 seconds after ulting and having multiple armor pen instances stack multiplicatively. so if you had lord doms the targets armor would get reduced by 50% because of your ult then that new value would get reduced by 40%. if the target had 100 armor it would be reduced to 30 effective armor. if the calculation were additive, the 50% and 40% would add to 90% but this is not the case.
Percentage armor penetration stacks multiplicatively, i.e. with Pantheon's ult passive (30% pen) and LDR, damage will be calculated as if target had (1-0.3)*(1-0.4)=0.42 (42%) armor, which means 58% armor penetration, and not "higher number the one that will work". With bonus armor pen it will be the same, except that only bonus pen would be multiplied. Yasuo's R and LDR: (1-0.5)*(1-0.4)=0.3 bonus effective target's armor or 70% bonus armor penetration and 40% base armor pen from LDR. So against armor stacking champs it will be definitely worth building, also LDR and Mortal Reminder combined have 9% popularity on him.
Why isnt lethality just called "armor penetration" because now that they changed it to grant instantly 100% of its value, then it makes it basicly the same as armor penetration
hey man can you explain why lethality is better against lower armored targets? Tecnically armor doesnt have diminishing returns, so having +10 armor is always as effective no matter if you have 50 armor or 250 armor, so the same logic should apply to -10 on 50 armor or 250 armor no?
If you have 100 lethality against a 100 armor target, you end up doubling your damage because 100 armor reduces physical damage by 50% and you're going from 50% reduction to 0%. If you have 100 lethality against a 200 armor target, you are increasing your damage by 50% because 200 armor reduces physical damage by 66% and you're going from 66% reduction to 50%.
The damage you deal is always multiplied by 100/(100+armor). You can easily now understand how that changes in enemy armor when it's value is low, are wayy more impact full (that's why also early armor/Mr is very strong)
Wdym bean armour doesn't haved diminishing returns? Coz it does, going from 0 to 100 armour brings you from 0 to 50% DMG reduction, going from 100 to 200 gives you a total 67% reduction, which is a 33% reduction on the 50% DMG you took at 100 armour
i just came up with interesting video idea "how expensive are league skills" like skills that grant stats such as twitch r, vayne r grant ad for example and twitch r is technically a free 1300g for a couple of seconds
Hold. Im still in shambles. % pen reduces/ignore armor way further than lethality. Then why %pen builds as last items? Does the %pen only reduces base armor and Armor sbred reduces all armor?
there is just way to much % armor pen in this game my idea butt ldr up by 5 ad and - 100 gold but reduce the armor pen to 30% on mortal reminder same + 5 ad -100 gold but 25% armor pen abilitys like nasus e or darius e passive down by 10% per level black cleaver down back to 25% armor shred seryldas back to 20% armor pen flat but - 100 gold ... in exchanche nerf the damage on heartsteel a bit but give it back 10 haste nerf sunfire damage hp scaling from 1.75% hp to 1.25% hp but give it 50 hp and 5 armor LESS DAMAGE ON TANKS BUT LET THEM NOT GET ONESHOT
Firstly, it's not a passive, it's a buff that lasts 15 seconds after he ults. Even though it only works against bonus armor, it is %penetration so it's calculated at the same time as other %penetration sources.
Black Cleaver reduces enemy's armor by up to 30%, so it multiplies it by 70% (0.7). Lord Dominik's Regards ignores 40% of the remaining 70%, so it multiplies it by 60% (0.6). 0.6*0.7 = 0.42 (42%). You deal damage as if the enemy had 42% of their armor, it ignores 58% of it.
It used to work in season 2, the reduction was flat and therefore you started dealing true damage at 5 cleavers. With old pantheon it basically made him a hyperscaler. Back then all items could be bought multiple times and most effects weren't unique
Welcome to the league of cleavers. This was back then as well and remember when you reduced their armors by stacking. Everyone just stacked 5 black cleavers + boots, your armor penetration was 150% meaning you dealt +50% bonus damage while ignoring the armor stat entirely as if it never existed. This was patched ages ago and then limited to unique passive and then eventually now limited to one copy per item.
Also, if enemy team has Rammus, Malphite or K'Sante you should prioritize black cleaver as % penetration item because they have armor scaling so by reducing their armor you'll also reduce their damage.
That is correct. I've talked about this on my "How to counter Malphite" and "How to counter Rammus" videos.
Count Ornn into this as well if he goes mostly Armor. Reason being that his E damage scales with resistances.
Thanks for that!!
Black Cleaver is very much underrated. I rarely see anyone building it.
@@SkinShowcase-zm3rs low elo? black cleave is a really strong bruiser item that usually gets built
Love this explanation bc my brain cant process all the info on the wiki about lethality and armor pen
True damage nasus is not real it cant hurt you
Great video, now i can actually be sure im building correctly and not wondering whether im right about which one is calculated first
I think about 4 years ago I thought that flat pen goes before %, so you should almost never build both void stuff and shadowflame, etc
To summarize shortly.
Lethality is better against low armored targets aka Assassins onto squishies.
% Ignore or Reduction is better onto higher armor targets or late game (most champions have 90+ base armor at Lv18)
Defense Ignore is for yourself and does not lower the targets armor for others. Defense Reduction applies as a debuff and it benefits your team overall if they are mostly physical dps, in addition it also lowers the scaling onto armor champions like Rammus Malphite K'Sante etc making them deal reduced damage/scaling as well.
Thanks for explaining it man, it definietely helps optimizing builds now! Keep up the good work! ^-^
Thank God. Now people can understand basic math - seriously though, for some reason people are unable to do basic math in League. It hurts my soul.
Honestly I think it’s because they still think lethality has that weird scaling pen. I mean that’s what I thought bruh
Context?
@@hata6290 Yeah, that's reasonable. It was super janky for a while back then.
I like how in arena any lethality build turns your damage into true, sometimes even against 1k armour rammus
Hey, I was wondering how does Yasuo Ult's %bonus armor pen functions with other penetration items and if it's ever worth building, this is assuming you can ult targets.
If I recall whichever has the higher number is the only one that will work , u can experiment on the practice dummy as well to confirm. Nowadays Riot makes sure that your armor never goes Negative value 😂
its only on yasuo crits that he gains 50% bonus armor pen for 15 seconds after ulting and having multiple armor pen instances stack multiplicatively. so if you had lord doms the targets armor would get reduced by 50% because of your ult then that new value would get reduced by 40%. if the target had 100 armor it would be reduced to 30 effective armor. if the calculation were additive, the 50% and 40% would add to 90% but this is not the case.
Percentage armor penetration stacks multiplicatively, i.e. with Pantheon's ult passive (30% pen) and LDR, damage will be calculated as if target had (1-0.3)*(1-0.4)=0.42 (42%) armor, which means 58% armor penetration, and not "higher number the one that will work". With bonus armor pen it will be the same, except that only bonus pen would be multiplied. Yasuo's R and LDR: (1-0.5)*(1-0.4)=0.3 bonus effective target's armor or 70% bonus armor penetration and 40% base armor pen from LDR. So against armor stacking champs it will be definitely worth building, also LDR and Mortal Reminder combined have 9% popularity on him.
@@exiledwolfchTrundle has entered the chat.
@@redtwerd скорее всего сначала Ясуо пробьет 50% бонусной брони, а уже из оставшейся высчитывается % лдр
Waow I didn't know this applied for all teamates, I thought it was "local" for my damage, that's insanely good then in teamfights.
This is Interesting.. (I'm a Mage Player)
Somebody should send this vid to naayil, he's been wondering why riot didn't let him buy both black cleaver and serylda
This is explain in a such easy way thanks a lot !
Could’ve sworn %pen was calculated after lethality, hence why back in the day BC was better for assassins because shred is calculated before
THIS BUILD IS VERY HUMAN.
Can you show when it is smartest to go the %pen item (2nd? 3rd? 4th?) based on how high enemy base armor will be at a certain time
Why isnt lethality just called "armor penetration" because now that they changed it to grant instantly 100% of its value, then it makes it basicly the same as armor penetration
hey man can you explain why lethality is better against lower armored targets? Tecnically armor doesnt have diminishing returns, so having +10 armor is always as effective no matter if you have 50 armor or 250 armor, so the same logic should apply to -10 on 50 armor or 250 armor no?
If you have 100 lethality against a 100 armor target, you end up doubling your damage because 100 armor reduces physical damage by 50% and you're going from 50% reduction to 0%. If you have 100 lethality against a 200 armor target, you are increasing your damage by 50% because 200 armor reduces physical damage by 66% and you're going from 66% reduction to 50%.
The damage you deal is always multiplied by 100/(100+armor). You can easily now understand how that changes in enemy armor when it's value is low, are wayy more impact full (that's why also early armor/Mr is very strong)
Cmon dude, 1 lethality = 1 armor
Wdym bean armour doesn't haved diminishing returns? Coz it does, going from 0 to 100 armour brings you from 0 to 50% DMG reduction, going from 100 to 200 gives you a total 67% reduction, which is a 33% reduction on the 50% DMG you took at 100 armour
@@tommo4356no one gets this it is what it is
i just came up with interesting video idea
"how expensive are league skills"
like skills that grant stats such as twitch r, vayne r grant ad for example and twitch r is technically a free 1300g for a couple of seconds
only real ones recognize the soundtrack 🥰
Very nice and effective video
+1 sub! 🫡
Love ur videos. Keep it up.
Can you do a video on attack speed and attack speed ratio on champs? Like when a champ should prefer to build attack speed over AD, etc.
ty my one and only Saviour lol havoc
Hold. Im still in shambles. % pen reduces/ignore armor way further than lethality. Then why %pen builds as last items?
Does the %pen only reduces base armor and Armor sbred reduces all armor?
%pen is indeed very strong. It works on all armor
Does this build work for Nasus too?
Is it the same for magic pen?
Lufia 2 ost in the video? :O
Please, put a calm game in the next one, I couldn't pay attention because I kept focusing on the irelia X aatrox 😂
I miss lord dominik's regards passive it was the best anti-tank item
Now it's the best item every time, even against squishies 💀
Honestly if your character can build dominic just always build it even if the target has 100 armor it gives basically 40 lethality is juts stupid
there is just way to much % armor pen in this game
my idea
butt ldr up by 5 ad and - 100 gold
but reduce the armor pen to 30%
on mortal reminder same + 5 ad -100 gold
but 25% armor pen
abilitys like nasus e or darius e passive down by 10% per level
black cleaver down back to 25% armor shred
seryldas back to 20% armor pen flat but - 100 gold
...
in exchanche nerf the damage on heartsteel a bit but give it back 10 haste
nerf sunfire damage hp scaling from 1.75% hp to 1.25% hp
but give it 50 hp and 5 armor
LESS DAMAGE ON TANKS BUT LET THEM NOT GET ONESHOT
1.Garen support with black cleaver (e removes 60% armor)
2. adc build % penetration item (40% armor penetration).
3. True damage
4. Problem?
Thats not how it works
%100 zırh delme etmez 100 zırhlı rakip
1. 60 zırh düştü 40 kaldı
2. 40 zırhın %40 görmezden gelindi
100 zırhın %40 değil 40 zırhın %40
true, they would be left with 24 armor@@osmanoyunda8406
The numbers obviously don't work that way, but I like your meme.
Does yasuo r's passive works last?
Firstly, it's not a passive, it's a buff that lasts 15 seconds after he ults. Even though it only works against bonus armor, it is %penetration so it's calculated at the same time as other %penetration sources.
So i was right, im not schizo, pen really calculates before leth
Yep.
Ao if you have 80 lethality and enemy has 79 do they get negative? Or 0?
Its basically true damage it also doesnt go negative only 0
Why 58%? How is this calculated?
Black Cleaver reduces enemy's armor by up to 30%, so it multiplies it by 70% (0.7).
Lord Dominik's Regards ignores 40% of the remaining 70%, so it multiplies it by 60% (0.6).
0.6*0.7 = 0.42 (42%).
You deal damage as if the enemy had 42% of their armor, it ignores 58% of it.
The numbers are multiplicative, not additive. Like Havoc said.
Only on lvl 18
Now lethality gives 100% of its value as flat armor pen at level 1
Nice vid but that Aatrox play was unbearable to watch.
Masters elo Aatrox 💀
What if 5 black cleavers ?
Passive does not stack. One enemy can only have 5 stacks of shred.
@@ShadowRaZeV1 oh , my bad
It used to work in season 2, the reduction was flat and therefore you started dealing true damage at 5 cleavers. With old pantheon it basically made him a hyperscaler. Back then all items could be bought multiple times and most effects weren't unique
Welcome to the league of cleavers. This was back then as well and remember when you reduced their armors by stacking.
Everyone just stacked 5 black cleavers + boots, your armor penetration was 150% meaning you dealt +50% bonus damage while ignoring the armor stat entirely as if it never existed.
This was patched ages ago and then limited to unique passive and then eventually now limited to one copy per item.
@@NepNeppy i remember seeing that ! It was good on MF and Pantheon ! I have also seen 5 infinity edge jhin