Progression in Geometry Dash: a Sickness of the Soul

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  • čas přidán 8. 05. 2024
  • you could make a religion out of this
    Note: I forgot to credit Goober Tunnel by Fofii but I didn't want to rerender the video over it. 13:20
    patreon: / wherwin
    discord: / discord
    twitter: / where__win
    twitch: / wherwin
    All music used in this video is from the Super Paper Mario soundtrack
    #geometrydash
  • Hry

Komentáře • 168

  • @S3rios
    @S3rios Před 27 dny +19

    Great video as per usual. I wish you’d talked more about how this mindset hurts the game in general. Most of the video was focused on how stat grinding is bad for the soul, and while that’s true, the post pernicious consequence is that stat grinders have an outsized influence over what’s considered “good design”, and so not only do they generally have a bad time playing, but they also pressure creators to appeal to their kink, making things marginally better for them while ruining the fun for everyone else.

    • @WHErwin
      @WHErwin  Před 27 dny +7

      Yeah, I did briefly mention it, but I think youre right it wouldve been good to elaborate on that point more and put more emphasis on it. I'll just pin this comment to compensate lol

  • @mindcap.
    @mindcap. Před 29 dny +196

    This is why I enjoy working with Insane-Extreme Demon levels more, because when someone plays a level of that difficulty caliber, they're not just playing it for stats anymore but for the achievement of passing the level itself

    • @skinksies
      @skinksies Před 29 dny +15

      for me, a hard demon is an absolutely enormous commitment. there's so many extremes and insane that i love but it's just completely inaccessible to players like me

    • @phantasmal9735
      @phantasmal9735 Před 29 dny

      exactly, like go big or go home

    • @NeedlefishGames
      @NeedlefishGames Před 29 dny +2

      @@skinksies Exactly, I want to beat insane/extremes, but hard demons feel like just a solid wall right now

    • @ceyros27
      @ceyros27 Před 29 dny +1

      Personally I think you can apply that to the demon difficulty in general, the difference is that there are more or less people who admire the level depending on the difficulty

    • @cinasek4263
      @cinasek4263 Před 29 dny

      ​@@skinksiesand that is a reason i decided to get better
      There were so many extremes that i looked at and went "this looks so cool i wanna beat it one day" back in 2015
      2 years ago i thought that it was time to get better and it was surprisingly easier than i expected
      Hell it's even easier now (I had to do it on 60 fps cuz of setup limitation)
      The most important thing is to keep challenging yourself
      You don't have to beat a new hardest every few demons
      But personal top 2-4 is nice every now and then
      If you are looking for people that could help you with progression there are plenty willing to help on like discord servers etc.

  • @MagooAP
    @MagooAP Před 29 dny +82

    The journey to the top itself is enough to fill a man's heart
    One must imagine Erwin happy

  • @Zaylic
    @Zaylic Před 29 dny +19

    me when the number goes up: 🤤
    me when the number stays the same, or worse, decreases: ☹️

    • @WHErwin
      @WHErwin  Před 27 dny +9

      average stockholder

  • @liketocodev
    @liketocodev Před 29 dny +31

    that balatro example is a complete misunderstanding of the game, there being no indicator of how many chips a hand will score is meant to encourage you to experiment instead of optimizing

    • @WHErwin
      @WHErwin  Před 28 dny +2

      i didnt misunderstand the game, i know thats what the dev was going for. i just disagree with their design philosophy

  • @percent3767
    @percent3767 Před 29 dny +29

    Two things you neglected to mention: new players, and the impact of the community.
    New players have no experience with the game, so they need all the incentivizing they can get to actually stick with it and improve, eventually seeing the game for its insanely creative community. I have seen so many ‘playthroughs’ of GD where they go through the main levels and that’s it. They never once interact with online levels, and never get to experience the full extent of the game. With a mountain of progression clearly visible, new players are teased with stuff they could be getting, and are encouraged to play online levels because of that. So progression is rather helpful for getting past the hurdles of inexperience.
    Secondly, the community. Robtop has made so much of this progression specifically to serve the community. The reason there so many long-winded achievements is because so many people have dedicated so much time to this game, and Robtop wants to reward that. Now, there are probably better ways that could have been handled, such as the addition of new mechanics instead of the extension of old ones, but hey, introducing new mechanics can cause problems by itself. Another example is with the 2.2 update. The community collectively agreed that they wanted more things to do with their orbs, keys, and diamonds. So in 2.2, wanting to please the community, Robtop added massive expansions to just those things. New shops, new demon chests, all with huge price tags to push the currency issue into the far future. All the progression has been created with the sole purpose of serving those that stick with it.
    Overall, while I may not agree with all your game design takes, I think you touch on some pretty prevalent topics, especially your argument about star-grinding.

    • @kirlian5399
      @kirlian5399 Před 29 dny +1

      What if RobTop added new main levels that are unlocked with orbs/keys/whatever? Non secrets like the challenge, I mean full-length and well-designed main levels like RobTop can make. The reward for beating a level would be another fun and enjoyable experience like the one you just had.
      Note that this is the first thing that came to mind, but I'm sure there could be even better ways to let players spend their collectibles. Removing orbs from the game would upset many people, but instead "redirecting" the progression towards the game itself instead of towards stats for stats sake could be a healthy game design decision. I didn't think through this much though.

  • @laserslime
    @laserslime Před 29 dny +21

    I feel like the main issue with the progression system is that it doesn't really encourage you to beat harder levels. Instead it encourages grinding the same generic easy levels over and over again. A step towards fixing this could be to make demon difficulty actually matter. Like what if medium demons gave 20 stars, hard demons 30 and so on... This could help resolve the jump indicator problem that you mentioned, since playing harder levels that you have to learn anyways becomes worth it.
    But in the end I don't think this matters that much since the community already has a huge culture built around beating hard levels and most players really only interact with the progression system to get a few icons they like and then never again.

    • @justaguy4575
      @justaguy4575 Před 29 dny

      that wouldn't work since demon difficulty's move around many times, and it would be stupid for your stats to move around. also if this happens the top list grinders would be the top star grinders and that's stupid.

    • @laserslime
      @laserslime Před 29 dny

      @@justaguy4575 yeah of course demon difficulty would have to be determined by robtop instead of players. Also beating list demons won't be worth it for stargrinding since easy extremes exist.

    • @justaguy4575
      @justaguy4575 Před 29 dny +2

      @@laserslime robtop deciding demon difficulty's would suck since he isnt good at the game really

    • @laserslime
      @laserslime Před 29 dny

      @@justaguy4575 that's just the reason the entire rating system sucks really

    • @ejxhx
      @ejxhx Před 28 dny +1

      @@justaguy4575 I kinda disagree with this view (I see the point of it yes) because beating an extreme that later was downrated was an achievement back when it was an extreme, so just let them keep the stats. When icdx was an extreme, it deserved to be one and beating it was considered a big achievement, but now it's just a hard insane demon and not as impressive. Riot beating bloodbath is now "easy" I guess? It wasn't at the time. Tidal wave will be considered easy in the future, but rn it's top 1. Idk if my point makes sense its hard to explain sorry. I'm not trying to argue im just presenting my point of view.

  • @yourlocalgoat
    @yourlocalgoat Před 29 dny +7

    What I've gained from this video: play the game however the fuck you want. If you enjoy it, good. If you don't enjoy it, not good. Simple.

  • @adderalladmiral
    @adderalladmiral Před 29 dny +25

    geometry dash feels like a game that’s supposed to be swarming with microtransactions

    • @Blx3B3rry
      @Blx3B3rry Před 29 dny

      NO

    • @RealMysticalMan
      @RealMysticalMan Před 27 dny +2

      If you removed the micro, you'd be right. People buy monitors, mouses, keyboards, other devices just to have a better shot at being pro

    • @mad_huntress_8796
      @mad_huntress_8796 Před 12 dny

      honestly it does, but to me its really nice to have a game with all of these different ways of leveling up and getting different stats with multiple different currences while having genuinely fun gameplay at its core. I HATE cookie clicker because the only thing you do is watch a number go up and thats it. But with Geometry Dash, you have to be skilled to have that number go up and there is real effort as a player you have to put in. I personally really enjoy the progression system and also love the game to death at its core.

  • @RichConnerGMN
    @RichConnerGMN Před 29 dny +49

    did you ever find win?

  • @GeckoGD
    @GeckoGD Před 29 dny +5

    The mindset of "wanting to beat levels faster to progress more quickly" is actually a massive problem a lot of people in this game have. Even myself and some others who play extreme demons almost exclusively fall into this mindset occasionally due to being able to beat the lower end ones within 2-3 hours.
    As someone who has gotten very frustrated with this mindset, I can absolutely agree that it's a very large issue in the stargrinder community that ends up promoting toxicity among them as I know from personal experience that I end up disliking levels more if I expect too much of myself and don't meet those expectations.

  • @hexergaming19
    @hexergaming19 Před 29 dny +9

    kind of disagree with you on this one???????? you kind of not mention the fact that a person can enjoy both the metagame and the game, and adding more to the metagame adds more to the playing gd part to them

    • @coocoo3336
      @coocoo3336 Před 29 dny +3

      I think the point is that your not enjoying gd if you just seek out levels to mindlessly beat in 4 attempts and get mad when you cant sight read a level.

  • @NighthawkGD
    @NighthawkGD Před 29 dny +9

    Tbh the only stat I actually care about is my demon count. Reason being that it is a physical value representing accomplishments I have done in the game. And once I actually get around to beating extreme demons I might start caring about that too. On the other hand, stars/moons are a completely artificial value, diamonds and mana orbs don't mean much too me, and coins are so plentiful that I don't care too much about them and I often forget I have a stat for them. For the most part, I just ignore my stats and pay attention to what I have accomplished in the game. After all, the best people in the game aren't the ones who have the most stars, but rather are the ones who beat the hardest demons.

    • @asdfoifhvjbkaos
      @asdfoifhvjbkaos Před 15 dny

      eventually you stop caring about demon count once you get good enough and realize how easily you can beat easies / mediums

    • @NighthawkGD
      @NighthawkGD Před 15 dny +1

      @@asdfoifhvjbkaos This is a fair point. Tbh I know as soon as my I beat my first extreme demon I will likely stop caring too much about my demon count. The only reason I will likely pay any attention to it is when I am getting to a multiple of 50 and want to do a specific demon for that number (e.g., for my 50th demon I am trying to beat my first extreme demon).

  • @CygnusGD
    @CygnusGD Před 29 dny +8

    I had somewhat mixed feelings in regards to your original tweets, but this makes a lot of sense now--I often notice that I open GD, play a few 4-7 star levels, and close the game and never think about those levels again. A lot of the progression system is antithetical to appreciating the work and artistry put into GD levels. For quite a while I've had a similar belief in regards to creator points. In my opinion, there shouldn't be any ratings besides a standard star rate--having more than that encourages creators to grind out mediocre levels for the sake of increasing a number, and it discourages players from appreciating levels on their own merits. "This level doesn't have a rate/is only a star rate, so I won't play it." "This level is rated epic/legendary so that means it's good." (I don't think most people are actually saying these things; it's more of a subconscious thing.) Now I think it makes sense to apply that belief to other stats as well--they discourage appreciation levels too, after all. Thanks for making this video.

  • @william3264
    @william3264 Před 29 dny +4

    this is an awesome vid and kinda everything i had in mind and more - i always have loved this game but i remember the leaderboards being unfrozen a few years back and i was sitting somewhere around #600 or so in stars and balancing your love for the game with trying to improve this rank by beating levels you don't really want to play is probably the most fruitless endeavour i had ever found in the game. i find the idea of exemplifying it with a progression mod quite patronising as well, because finding out that the levels themselves are more often than not just made for the stat rather than the merit of having a level out is so evident, making the stars and stuff you get that more monotonous because its just an endless cycle of creator point grabbing creators appealing to star grabbing stargrinders. i like how u mentioned the progression thing being separate to the actual game because ive never seen a game be this polluted with progression in the same environment such beautiful creations come from which just hurts both sides

  • @luvsgreen10
    @luvsgreen10 Před 29 dny +17

    I have noticed this. I hardly play demon levels because they frustrate me in a bad way and I do not want to fall into the star grinder's trap. Now, using Xanadu as an example. I love Xanadu so I would play that level to get the stars instead of something like Liberation because Serponge levels always have bad gameplay. My daily goal is to beat 2 demons, beat 2 five moon platformers, beat the daily level and to beat 15 five star side-scrollers to level up a path.
    I tend to avoid user coin grinding despite the rewards simply because *it isn't enjoyable*. It is annoying and it prevents me from liking the levels which is a shame, since a lot of these levels with easy user coins are great. Demon grinding has gotten worse overtime too so I stop doing it as often. Anyway I am rambling.

  • @tessal6555
    @tessal6555 Před 29 dny +3

    I personally lost the need for stats as soon as I got one medium demon. The achievement felt far more important than 10 stars.

  • @tessal6555
    @tessal6555 Před 29 dny +3

    The sight reading part is so true.
    Hey remember when levels had fake orbs and pads?

  • @aepuns
    @aepuns Před 29 dny +15

    13:18 OH DUDE YOU CANNOT CREDIT EVERY LEVEL BUT THAT ONE IT LOOKS SO SICK
    also i'm very glad i haven't fallen into this rabbit hole yet lol

  • @ideac.
    @ideac. Před 29 dny +14

    disagree with most points tbh
    i like grinding levels simply because i like discovering new levels. if i wasnt moon, star, coin grinding i'd only play levels i see on youtube that really grabs my attention
    i have already made a lot of lists just compiling (mainly) non demon levels that i enjoyed. If anything, the amount of stuff you can do in game when it comes to collectibles is what made me get interested in gd again in 2.2. I already completed the path of powers, have opened a lot of chests and im almost done with the diamond shop
    but yeah i mean i just like discovering new stuff and thats it yea

    • @dobi2447
      @dobi2447 Před 29 dny +1

      I guess it just depends from person to person. Like I can't imagine grinding easy levels, but I can imagine spending 20k attempts on a medium demon (yes im actually serious) and still find it enjoyable 😭

    • @zmitter4844
      @zmitter4844 Před 29 dny +6

      imo if you like grinding levels because you like discovering them, that's playing GD, not the metagame. The problem comes from the fact that you (in your own words) wouldn't be doing this thing that you find fun if it weren't for numbers going up, which is the problem being pointed out in the video; that instead of enjoying the game because you enjoy it, you're only playing for numbers _despite_ enjoying the game on its own

    • @ideac.
      @ideac. Před 29 dny +1

      @@zmitter4844 yeah lmao, i quit a lot of levels too even though i grind every stats frequently

    • @ytDuelsDewd
      @ytDuelsDewd Před 29 dny

      Based

  • @GiordanoLiporati
    @GiordanoLiporati Před 29 dny +2

    These videos just keep getting better! The script, the editing work... Just great. I think the distinction you made between the core game and the metagame helped clarify some of the weird behaviour I've seen from the community towards level creation. I agree with point fundamentally, that being people shouldn't play the latter unless they enjoy the former, in spite of some people's misinterpretations in this comment section.

  • @HyperX755
    @HyperX755 Před 29 dny +2

    i’m a stargrinder and i don’t exactly stick to playing easy levels, I do try to challenge myself into beating harder levels (currently working on Windy Landscape).

  • @pakhrom
    @pakhrom Před 29 dny +2

    Great video! I was actual planning to make a video on the same topic, but your video has already explained everything very broadly. The only thing that's different are our mindsets. You play GD to experience others people creative works, as there I play the game just to increase my stats. But I don't feel that I waste my time beating harder demons than easy ones and that's because, as you said, I acknowledge the mindset that I have and have no problem with forgetting about all that stats number increase and just appreciate the work of others, the effort people put in their levels. Once again, great video! Keep up the good work! ❤

  • @gmdFrame
    @gmdFrame Před 29 dny +2

    Mod idea: fully hide all stats from the game

  • @Rrainbox
    @Rrainbox Před 28 dny +2

    Sometimes I see myself replaying levels that I’ve already completed, this means you enjoy the levels for what they are, instead of the rewards cuz you only get rewards for levels the first time you beat them

  • @Kirbey
    @Kirbey Před 29 dny

    this video completely made me turn to your side compared to your tweet which I initially didn’t agree with
    The progression system, for me, is something I’m able to appreciate alongside the main game. Overall it’ll just get me to play the game more often, which I think is good. I’ll play whenever I have a spare minute on my phone to beat the daily level and then a few other random levels just to get closer to whatever goal, and I’ll give up whenever a level just sucks and I can move on after that short period. Then I’m also able to get actual playing in whenever I get a chance to actually play on my laptop and at that point I’m able to grind out an insane or extreme demon solely for the enjoyment of how the game works. You’re completely right that that all of the progression really doesn’t need to mean anything, but I’m all for having it and being able to have both work with one another.

  • @polarizing
    @polarizing Před 29 dny +1

    I think you have some good points here, I also don’t see any problem with kibas mod purely because again, it’s a mod.

  • @jonathanunova2856
    @jonathanunova2856 Před 16 dny

    I see your point and even though I'm a stargrinder myself, I do think the best experience you can have in this game is when you take the time to enjoy each level as it is.

  • @nayR5
    @nayR5 Před 25 dny

    "I criticize it because I care about it"
    -Forrest Valkai (roughly)

  • @redacted9280
    @redacted9280 Před 5 dny +1

    15:09 you might be right but that tweet is literally the most condescending tweet of all time. Like no wonder people were mad at you.

  • @katsueri
    @katsueri Před 29 dny

    Me watching that dopamine rush devour my soul as my taxes increase exponentially:

  • @dooshii
    @dooshii Před 29 dny +3

    now i want a mod that removes all progression from the game. no more cp, leaderboards, stars, achievements, paths and chests, gauntlets and mappacks, hell even showing every level as just rated so you dont know what youre getting into. i derive infinitely more fun from creating than playing though so what do i know haha

    • @kirlian5399
      @kirlian5399 Před 29 dny

      showing every level as rated (or not rated) would honestly be pretty interesting.

    • @zomg7841
      @zomg7841 Před 29 dny +1

      someone should really make this mod, it would really encourage people to look at levels for what they actually are

  • @gablor
    @gablor Před 29 dny

    Sometimes i tell myself i need to grind 100 stars a day so i can reach my goals but honestly more recently ive just been getting 500-1000 in a single day 2-3 times a week because some days i just dont feel like playing GD and other days I genuinely love playing the game and as you said if i come across a level that starts getting annoying i just skip it and move on to find another level! Banger vid once again!

  • @asdfoifhvjbkaos
    @asdfoifhvjbkaos Před 15 dny +1

    I've always said that games can have one of 2 types of grinding
    the firs type is like grinding an extreme demon. you're playing over and over and putting in hours of your time, but it doesn't feel like time wasted because your reward is that you're actually getting better and more consistent at the level. the game doesn't directly reward you with a number or anything.
    the other type of grind is doing something easy in large quantities. instead of a *real* reward (i.e. skill boost), you just get a number going up. you aren't proving anything, you aren't getting better at the game. you already know that you're technically capable of beating 10000 5-star levels, it's just the matter of actually doing it which is obviously a waste of time

  • @flyingrafts7287
    @flyingrafts7287 Před 29 dny

    I agree with pretty much everything said here. I think having flashy reward animations is fine if it doesn't obstruct the playing experience at all, and if the mechanics at work are good in their own right.

  • @BelfryClock
    @BelfryClock Před 29 dny +1

    There’s something about the way he starts every video that makes me think he’d kill it making short form content - but I also want to assume he’s wise enough not to make short form content

  • @apt1313
    @apt1313 Před 29 dny +5

    Your are polish, right? You should be

  • @twandash
    @twandash Před 29 dny +17

    cant you just play the game and enjoy that? if you guys wanna watch meaningless numbers go up you can play cookie clicker or something. go play runescape. those games are all about shit like this

    • @ytDuelsDewd
      @ytDuelsDewd Před 29 dny

      Bro numbers are part of the game though?

    • @twandash
      @twandash Před 29 dny

      @@ytDuelsDewdits a j o k e

  • @llertt
    @llertt Před 28 dny

    This video freaking woke me up bruh

  • @burron2059
    @burron2059 Před 28 dny +1

    bless you

  • @fruithats
    @fruithats Před 29 dny +1

    as someone who nearly exclusively plays soulslikes I guess that's why I never felt drawn to the gd metagame, beating levels I liked felt like enough on its own

  • @nomu5873
    @nomu5873 Před 29 dny

    You raise a really good point. Youre very intelligent, thanks for making this video

  • @rajanslee
    @rajanslee Před 29 dny

    I was hoping you’d talk more about the map packs and the gauntlets because I feel like those are a particularly egregious example of this. It’s pretty much guaranteed there are going to be levels you hate which you have to beat in order to open the new shiny chest or whatever

    • @ejxhx
      @ejxhx Před 28 dny

      I didnt even think of that, that is so true. Although my friend got into improvement by beating the demon gauntlet so idk

  • @mrtobi7801
    @mrtobi7801 Před 29 dny +1

    I have lost my gd account data from wipes too many times to care about icons and stuff anymore

  • @AdyaGD
    @AdyaGD Před 29 dny

    great video

  • @fornax985
    @fornax985 Před 29 dny

    Im stuck in this trap of not wanting to use the icon hack, and i want the freaking 25k stars ufo

  • @garbagegamertag
    @garbagegamertag Před 28 dny +1

    WHErwin boutta use Colon's fursuit like a mop

  • @irisdiva
    @irisdiva Před 29 dny +1

    New video 🔥🔥🔥

  • @apollo1493
    @apollo1493 Před 29 dny

    Haven’t watched the video yet but I heard you went through all the levels you needed to for the hard demons video. Do you expect Watch The Throne by Ratquesadilla to make the list? I found the level when it came out and loved it so I was curious

    • @WHErwin
      @WHErwin  Před 29 dny +2

      its on my initial list, but i need to cut it down a lot still. dont want to give too much away either lol so thats all youre getting

  • @Norhkuna
    @Norhkuna Před 29 dny

    good video! I'm ngl I still believe people should do what they enjoy and if a silly mod that adds skinner box progression mechanics to gd makes them enjoy the game more, they should go for it. For me though, I interact with the game's mechanics in what I assume is the intended way, they're side objectives to sometimes pay attention to, but the main objective of the game is to play levels and see yourself improve

  • @soundlolgmd614
    @soundlolgmd614 Před 29 dny

    5:12 where do i find this list???

  • @SilentNyan
    @SilentNyan Před 29 dny

    Yeah this video makes much more sense because the main problem with your tweets was how "radical" it sounded, even tho I don't agree with some details (for example, I've played a lot of VS and was surprised how I never got bored of chest animation, and I think the break that you take during the animation perfectly fits the gameplay).
    The only big problem I have is how you haven't explained why exactly the mod makes the game worse. Imo, it even makes the progression better judging by the problems you've talked about in the video (having a lot of stats to keep track of) , because it simply summarizes the main stats into 1 number, instead of adding another way of unlocking another set of achievements with icons. With the mod installed, I only need to look at one number if I want to compare profiles, instead of 6. Isn't it simplifying the progression system?

  • @uberkatt8223
    @uberkatt8223 Před 29 dny

    Well made video, personally my rule of thumb is to ask yourself why youre playing a game when you get to a point where its unenjoyable, and if your answer doesnt correlate in some way to liking the actual core gameplay itself then there might be an issue.

  • @Mid-Finity
    @Mid-Finity Před 29 dny

    This is a great video. Once 2.2 came out, moongrinding took over my life. After getting burnt out, I started playing harder levels and increased my skill. I felt that was more rewarding than any collectibles. This video has a great point and shows that the game is about having fun

  • @falkster4045
    @falkster4045 Před 26 dny

    the only progression im looking at is the gddp, because it actually helps me improve

  • @abztract_
    @abztract_ Před 29 dny

    imo betterprogression feels just like a calculated reskin for your stats and an unneeded bowtie to your profile

  • @joylechanceux4805
    @joylechanceux4805 Před 23 dny +1

    To me
    The achievements should cause the stats and not the stats that cause the achievements

  • @roguegamingvoid4854
    @roguegamingvoid4854 Před 12 dny

    in 2020 i was a star grinder, i stopped playing in like 3 months, i came back in october 2023 and haven't stoped since, i came back to beat demons, i beat my first demon after a week and since then i got much better at gaem and the only reason i play its because i like the hard levels (inside my skill range of course) im currently at crimson clutter difficulty at least other people can see i beat insane demons and not 90 easy demons

  • @aiapihud4344
    @aiapihud4344 Před 29 dny

    Every single person in the GD community needs to watch this video right now

  • @souljynx
    @souljynx Před 29 dny +1

    Use icon hack or become a stargrinder, which way western man

  • @a05polzar
    @a05polzar Před 29 dny

    For me, I mostly Demon grind, not for stats or anything, but because I like beating a large quantity of Demon levels and that's the most fun thing for me in this game. Recently, I've been mainly grinding high-end Hard Demons.

  • @SSuser-go7jm
    @SSuser-go7jm Před 24 dny

    Well, Balatro was never really trying to make a strategy game. GMTK made a great video about it, but to summarize, showing the score you’d get goes against the vision of the game. If you’d like it another way, there are plenty of mods that change that.

  • @lazerlemurGD
    @lazerlemurGD Před 29 dny +2

    I feel like progression metagames will sometimes ruin a game, and sometimes improve it, the progression system completely ruined asphalt 8, a game with very fun gameplay, for me, but some games, such as osu, are more fun for me because of their progression.

    • @zomg7841
      @zomg7841 Před 29 dny

      this is probably because osu's progression system is really good at basically forcing the player to improve through deweighting. yeah, you're still just chasing extrinsic motivation (pp), but in doing so, you will beat harder and harder maps, which will naturally lead to a sense of accomplishment

  • @Aquakabi
    @Aquakabi Před 29 dny

    I hear "sickness of the soul" and I think of carmen from lobcorp/ruina

  • @Mr_Reggie
    @Mr_Reggie Před 29 dny

    "Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game." - Soren Johnson

  • @bradens.3125
    @bradens.3125 Před 29 dny

    100% agree. i personally play the game purely to play the levels i want to and make the levels i want to. ik plenty of others enjoy the numbers though. i may not get it, but, that's whatever

  • @ThanatosGMD
    @ThanatosGMD Před 28 dny

    This is the most based video ever. I feel like 90% of the community doesn’t play the game for enjoyment anymore, only stats or hard completions

  • @rahj0
    @rahj0 Před 29 dny

    Long and probably incoherent comment incoming, as I have a LOT to say about this subject.
    I used to not care about stats, only playing the game for fun. My list of hardest levels beaten has a lot of unrated levels, and I used to love them because they didn't care about a certain standard, and in doing so they felt very sincere. But a few months ago (2 months before 2.2), I finally got fully burned out of the game. Stubborn, and not wanting to quit however, I tried star grinding to see if it was as "fun" as many people were saying, and now I am trapped in these progression systems and stats. Goals of reaching certain numbers, playing so many levels that it's physically impossible to distinguish between them, and the feeling that I can't quit a bad level because I've already sunk time into it, and I don't want to waste time. There are also so many stats and achievements possible, that you are probably bound to not like some of them. I hate shards and I despise silver coins, but I still have to force myself to get them to obtain all the achievements in the game. I don't think this is fun, but it is very addicting. I don't feel fulfilled when achieving a certain number that I've been working towards for days, but I still remember my difficult achievements in the game to this day. Perhaps I should have quit the game when I was supposed to, and this video reminded me of the mentality I used to have and strive towards. After seeing this, I feel like I want to quit stargrinding, but I'm already so deep within the rabbit hole, that I don't want to quit, because even if it has it's bad moments and motives, it still serves me a purpose. The same purpose youtube has for me, but in video game form. Something that I can boot up for 5-10 minutes, play a bit, get instant dopamine, and close the game. I don't think that's a bad way of seeing the game at all. I know that by seeing it like this I could avoid a lot of cool community projects, but I actively search for them to ensure that doesn't happen. Plus, if I have a lot of short sessions, that doesn't mean I still don't have longer sessions like I used to, they are just rarer, as I've gotten busier and have grown up.
    My conclusion is that you can play within these progression systems if you find them fun, but please for the love of god don't let them get to you. If you actually read this the whole way through, I hope you have a great day!

  • @soddabebra
    @soddabebra Před 29 dny

    5:22 I SEE YOU SLAY THE SPIRE FAN HEHEHEHEHE

  • @dhavzr23
    @dhavzr23 Před 29 dny

    i haven't watched the video yet but i see bill wurtz reference and i like

  • @Eagleleadsmc
    @Eagleleadsmc Před 28 dny

    What was that one thing he said about religion on twitter 😭

  • @sirbennn
    @sirbennn Před 29 dny

    I say everything needed to be said on twitter

  • @purpleopaia4580
    @purpleopaia4580 Před 27 dny

    i dont like how you didnt mention leaderboards cause i feel like its one of the biggest reasons to why people just dont play levels to enjoy it. its really not that hard to understand why. like compared to the metagame most people dont really care about achievements or icons its mostly just higher stats to get to the top like you mention. also for the fact that the metagame is temporary while chasing for leaderboards is forever

  • @GadoGD
    @GadoGD Před 29 dny

    Do you think people would ACTUALLY play 7* levels a lot without the progression system? I think that's worthy thinking about. Without a progression system people don't really have much motivation to keep playing. I think it's a personal thing, people should maybe stargrind for a bit, and then mix in some levels they like. that's what I do with top demons and challenges. I do agree when you say that stargrinding ruins enjoyability, but at the end of the day, not everyone wants to do that (like myself). Using icon hack bypasses all of this progression system and using that is totally fine, it's just a select few idiots that make fun of people for it, likely because they worked hard doing something they didn't enjoy, and this person can now get it for free. I don't think the geometry dash progression system is particularly good, maybe having a hardest demon showcase or something could encourage another playstyle? integration with the aredl or something would be great.

    • @kirlian5399
      @kirlian5399 Před 29 dny

      You're assuming that most 7* levels are bad and not inherently interesting to play. While that might be true today, I guarantee you that it doesn't have to be. There are many 7* levels I play over and over again, knowing very well they won't give me anything new, because I just enjoy beating them. If Geometry Dash was really just about creating and beating levels, I think levels would be completely different than what they are today, so who knows how good they would be.

    • @234zuscoutjango9
      @234zuscoutjango9 Před 29 dny

      If a level is not worthy of being played if it doesn't offer a shallow reward at the end, then maybe it's ok if it doesn't get played

    • @kirlian5399
      @kirlian5399 Před 28 dny

      @@234zuscoutjango9 good point

  • @-Error404usernotfound-

    I don't grind, or care about my own stats, but like the mod. Why? I like to be able to see how good other players are by checking their level, and also soo I can see their unspendable diamonds.
    After downloading the mod the first thing I did was work on a new hardest, ironically enough.

    • @ejxhx
      @ejxhx Před 28 dny +1

      The mod doesn't show skill tho, they can have high stats with their hardest being decode or something (no offense to people who think decode is hard, not everyone wants to or has had the time to beat really hard levels )

  • @ejxhx
    @ejxhx Před 28 dny

    I dont really care about progression and i totally agree. I just play the game for improvement and fun. I just use icon hack idgaf.

  • @TrulyAtrocious
    @TrulyAtrocious Před 29 dny

    Solution: make your own texture pack, now you don't need to grind but you are still rewarded by your work :troll:
    I started stargrinding for apth of light and it severely hindered my enjoyment of the game, but I've been playing a lot of levels that I would've never checked out on my own. Whenever I'm frustrated when I stargrind, I calm myself down with the "hard level is hard" mindset

    • @TrulyAtrocious
      @TrulyAtrocious Před 29 dny

      Hey you're right I should uninstall better progression, it got me into this in the first place, since I was so close to level 35

  • @dobi2447
    @dobi2447 Před 29 dny +5

    wherwin really drops tweets like "hitler was low-key kinda right", and then drops a video explaining how when he said right he meant politically right, and not actually right 😭

  • @mollof7893
    @mollof7893 Před 29 dny

    I think there are too many unlockables and collectables.
    Most players will never beat 500 demons or obtain 25000 stars, or be able to unlock all chests.
    The amount in 2.1 was mostly good enough.
    Also Map Packs and Gauntlets suck but we all know that.

  • @moosewhisker8072
    @moosewhisker8072 Před 17 dny

    Bruh you’re ahead of me in cookie clicker

    • @WHErwin
      @WHErwin  Před 17 dny

      i made sure to show off seedless to nay lol

  • @Fofiifii
    @Fofiifii Před 29 dny

    the shards of power are so poorly implemented, actually despise them

  • @f4r7
    @f4r7 Před 29 dny +2

    Horse react 🐴

  • @quadsocket
    @quadsocket Před 29 dny

    good take, dont personally agree with it tho

  • @shoujocore
    @shoujocore Před 28 dny

    this is why i play stepmania instead of osu!mania

  • @cuju7865
    @cuju7865 Před 28 dny

    Water

  • @drenkata
    @drenkata Před 29 dny

    9:00 fucc no bruh

  • @plaenterprise
    @plaenterprise Před 28 dny

    Another based video

  • @sirgeohd
    @sirgeohd Před 29 dny

    what is bro yapping about

  • @peopleperson
    @peopleperson Před 29 dny

    this is why i stopped playing especially after 2.2😂

  • @nayR5
    @nayR5 Před 25 dny

    wherwin based wherwin based

  • @dominez28
    @dominez28 Před 28 dny

    finally someone talks about this, i stopped caring about increasing my stats over 3 years ago, and since then i felt like i was only improving at different aspects of the game

  • @yammez1
    @yammez1 Před 29 dny

    The bgram bunny used to be a free texture pack for for ~10 years is now locked behind 500 demons? Yeah fuck that.

    • @ejxhx
      @ejxhx Před 28 dny +2

      You can still get a texture pack if u want it

  • @numptaloid
    @numptaloid Před 28 dny

    I think the more videos you make the more you keep putting things you've done and levels you've made in the videos either as background footage or explanation footage. That's fine but I reckon you're doing it far too often. A couple times in a video is fine, but inserting yourself in what you're talking about over and over again seems 1: kinda lazy and 2: kinda self centred. Samifying got on my nerves for the same reason. I couldn't keep watching those videos because of how much he clearly wanted us to know that he made Sedulous. Hope you take this into consideration, Dad.

    • @WHErwin
      @WHErwin  Před 27 dny

      Youre not wrong, I do want people to know about the things Ive made, because I am proud of my levels and my youtube channel. I am not humble and I will not apologize for it. Maybe thats a character flaw but hey, nobodys perfect. Im pretty close tho

  • @Prometheus_Alt
    @Prometheus_Alt Před 29 dny

    13:45 There's a reason it's a mod, it's an opt-in. You do not need to opt into this specific metagame and you sure as hell don't need to gatekeep.

  • @gmdspeedie
    @gmdspeedie Před 29 dny

    I think 2.1 was a mistake, mainly because of the orbs, shards, diamonds, shops and chests and all this crap that no one actually wanted. I get why this was done, we had more icons to unlock than actual achievements. Now Geometry Dash is like the average mobile game, but without advertisements. The daily chests especially gross me out.

  • @ytDuelsDewd
    @ytDuelsDewd Před 29 dny +1

    Unc
    I'd disagree
    Stargrinding is amazing to do and I grind on any video game I've ever touch so pretty natural
    We need more sight readable levels. If they want to make it "memorable" then so be it
    But unique levels on my recent tab need to be less since I get frustrated trying to learn it more than anything

    • @natu_ure
      @natu_ure Před 29 dny +3

      not every person is going to play the game the same way you do, this might seem shocking but theres people who play gd and actually appreciate any new ideas presented in levels they play since they provide a unique experience and grow tiresome playing the same kind of level over and over again (and i say those people are not outweighed by stargrinders by any means lol) im not going to prevent anyone from deciding to shallowly and mindlessly grind out the game but the game shouldnt prioritize the needs of those people unless its some shit like Cookie clicker and not Geometry dash

    • @ytDuelsDewd
      @ytDuelsDewd Před 29 dny

      @@natu_ure not everyone can be para
      I never understood the distaste towards "generic" levels.
      Most people can't keep up with few ideas, even if they do, fewer people have the ability to actually execute those ideas masterfully. I get why creators play it safe. So expecting different things on the recent tab is unlikely

    • @sumgyeojin
      @sumgyeojin Před 29 dny

      you are a subhuman

    • @Locked101
      @Locked101 Před 28 dny

      Way to miss the point

    • @sumgyeojin
      @sumgyeojin Před 28 dny

      You are a subhuman

  • @equipDD
    @equipDD Před 28 dny

    bless you

  • @joaa3806
    @joaa3806 Před 29 dny +7

    cant you just play the game and enjoy that? if you guys wanna watch meaningless numbers go up you can play cookie clicker or something. go play runescape. those games are all about shit like this

    • @dobi2447
      @dobi2447 Před 29 dny +1

      crazy how wherwin becomes a bloodthirsty beast on twitter and then on CZcams he's like "normal" 😭

    • @codysmith8639
      @codysmith8639 Před 29 dny

      All numbers in every game are meaningless. Saying they’re meaningless doesn’t mean anything.

    • @joaa3806
      @joaa3806 Před 29 dny

      @@codysmith8639 quoted this from wherwin lmao

    • @maurofast1
      @maurofast1 Před 29 dny

      what was so memeable about his tweet I lowkey don't get it.

  • @whirl_gd7867
    @whirl_gd7867 Před 29 dny

    cant you just play the game and enjoy that? if you guys wanna watch meaningless numbers go up you can play cookie clicker or something. go play runescape. those games are all about shit like this