The truth about China's economy: Debunking Western media myths
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- čas přidán 14. 06. 2024
- Political economists Radhika Desai and Michael Hudson are joined by Beijing-based scholar Mick Dunford to discuss China's economy and debunk Western media myths, addressing accusations that consumption is too low, fears of "Japanification", the role of exports, and the new Chinese growth strategy.
This is part 2 of their discussion. Watch part 1 here: • What is China's future...
You can watch other episodes of their program Geopolitical Economy Hour here: • Radhika Desai & Michae...
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People don't know about China, but talk about China all the time.
Westerners only
And only to downplay it because they're afraid
@@jihigh482western influenced easterners, as well.
@@jihigh482 very true
@@jihigh482 as an american it's pretty common seeing how much and how many fear china
Not only that; the diehard anti-Communist middle & upper classes which are quite afraid of the rising of China as an economic superpower & the corresponding decline of their colonial masters are too!@@jsc3417
Unlike the West, China doesn't want to beggar their neighbors. China has learned that enriching your neighborhood increases your business opportunities.
"High tide lifts all boats." (ships). 🌊🛳 Think, Win-Win.. Confucian principle?
China constructed the tributary system and it propelled the Silkroad forward which enriched the entire continent. China's experience with warring nomadic tribes in the North/West, Japanese pirates to the East, and disgruntled Southern mountain tribes in its long and ancient history has given them wisdom on how to maintain stable and peaceful borders. Notice how when Afghanistan was taken over by the Taliban, China stepped in with humanitarian aid, economic activity, and integrated it with its neighbors quickly. In Asia, mass refugee crises has led to civilizational collapses and major geostrategic fallouts. Think the Turks, the Mongols, the Indo-Aryans, the Tai-Kadai, and the Tibeto-Burmans. China has the most stable borders it has ever had in history, better than to even that of the Tang Dynasty. The Dark Ages of the Jin Dynasty and Later Qing Dynasty were dark times for China and that was when China had weak neighbors.
You are all too funny lmao
BRICS+
And also, enriched neighbours, equal stable and happy neighbours. Who wants threat of war and ill feelings?? The USA is so shortsighted.
May I express my deep appreciation of the clear analysis of geopolitics without the narcotic flavour of neoconservatives baggage. Thank you all for enriching and truthful information.
The western view of China experiencing "Japanification" is based more racist assumptions than it is based on rational analysis.
What happen now in tye west is a real time japanification. 😂😂
@walhdamaskus2408 that is correct 😂🤣😂
Western elites And investors know the truth ，just use the media to badmouth you
the westerns talk about China based on their western mindsets , ,published dates and their imaginations. they probably never been to China. Feels like chicken talk about how birds lives, totally out of touch.
So it's essentially the same question as "Why is Haiti so poor?' or "Why does Cuba need help?"
(The West robbed them.) China right now is "the big one that got away."
China has the greatest manufacturing capacity. US has the greatest clown production capacity.
The US is the world's largest debt producer.
😂😂😂❤
😂😂😂😂
Us has the worlds greatest propaganda and military production
You guys have been great! You are intelligent, expert, and objective on the world economy and geopolitics. China's economy has been growing in the last few decades and will continue to grow in the future. Thank you for showing us the truth so we have a realistic picture of China and the world's economies.
Every time I watch Geopolitical Economy Hour, I am blown away by the generosity and dedication of Radhika, Michael, Ben and everyone involved. Your insights via this platform and format with the simple goal of expanding human understanding about the world in which we live is nothing short of remarkable. Thank you.
Agreed. Rare gems. They’re real journalists with integrity, objectivity stating facts without establishment propaganda, gaslighting and dumbing down.
I've been listening since the beginning. Thank you to all of you for what you do.
I done read many of Hudson's books as well.
China and the Global South have a bright future!
Such clarity, backed with a wealth of data, and tackling head-on the critical questions regarding China's structural transition amidst a titanic struggle against US containment and technology embargo. There's incessant voodoo and hexxing from the Western media, 'analysts', trolls and commentators about China's imminent collapse, and this fact-based assessment across a wide variety of domains and perspectives is really useful.
Thank you.
US wanted to make a fool out of China. But instead, the US made a fool of itself. Let that be a lesson.
Nice tô meet you! Thank you from Brazil!
Brazil is such a great leader of the times. I hope to continue seeing your country shine and stand up against colonialism, while helping the rest of the global south prosper. (From a US citizen who is ashamed of my country, and looking for the next really opportunity to change it.)
Olá, prazer em conhecê-lo! Eu amo Brasil!
Me too Brazilian. We need to debate maintenance of power in Brazil. Reactionary voices speak so loud in Brazilian media and social media that is hard to foreseen future where a left wing government will have time to do something for our country. We need severe laws against fake news.
@@dannydenison6253 saddly Brazil's leadership is at the mercy of the party at the power in the moment. We just dodged a coup last year.
Our country has many fascists lurking around just waiting for an opportunity to jump in. Keep your eyes open everyone
@@apoena-allnitemusic7203 , In many "developing" economies, strong and well intentioned leaders are vital. Just take Singapore as an example, when the late LEE shed tears when Singapore was evicted from the Malaysian Federation but he then went ahead to provide the tiny state a way forward with steel leadership which the West was not comfortable with, in fact calling him a dictator but he did it " My Way!" with Singapore being one of the richest per capital in the world. It is clear that benevolent but even dictatorial leadership may be required!
GEOPOLITICAL ECONOMY REPORT is absolutely the Most informed, well analyzed with comprehensive data that supports their findings!
With their analysis, the world can learn from China and apply some of its strategies to be used in their respective countries, for example, what strategies used to remove poverty; apply and implement them for our own country!
As a Canadian, I wish our Leaders can put aside their bias and start focusing on our own people’s needs, and using some of the strategies China is using to help our own citizens!
The whole thing about China crippling the developing the world with debt is the ultimate in neo-colonial double standards given the reason for the 4 plus decades of stagnation in the African Continent was the result of them being shackled by debt from Western powers. Botswana the perfect outlier that exemplifies the point, they were one of the least developed nations in Africa and recorded the best continued growth of the Continent during the same period by not taking on debt !!
The West's strategy is to shackle the countries in Africa with debt and extract their natural resources.
America bites the hands that feed it.
Other economists should watch this and take note.
These three experts had debunked all the Gordon Chiangs and Zeihans with their facts!
A very insightful discussion with very impressive facts!🤗👍💙
I think the main difference between China and Japan is that China has a lot of nukes.
So, Japan is a complete vessel state of the US.
Perhaps, Japan is still paying the US some money, like old colonies did to England.
yes...they cannot be against with 🇺🇸
Thank you Radhika and Michael .
Michael's Peace Prize sarcasm was top-notch.
Excellent piece as ever.
Much appreciated 👏
56:14 “Confessions of an Economic Hit Man” by John Perkins
Excellent discussion! Many thanks to you three.
great video 👍
USA will be strong with people like these guys being fair and objective. Win win cooperation.
So informative, thank you ❤
Great folks , on top of the economics of the world, a must to understanding our world.
Thanks for clarifying the situation with China. 👍👍👍
Excellent work as usual and I am very glad that they addressed the significant different definition of China's use of the word "globalization" like it could be clearly seen in their paper "A Global Community of Shared Future: China’s Proposals and Actions". This is something that more academics should definitely pay more attention to and take into consideration in the future when talking about the world's economic relations instead of surrendering themselves to solely use the meaning of Neoliberal schools of thought or the various other nebulous meanings in social sciences regarding this concept.
This was an excellent discussion. Well done!
Thanks to all of you, brilliant well documented to the point presentation. I am Greek, and talking about western debt traps the debt of Greece created by IMF and European Central Bank according to the Data that Professor Radhika Desai presented is bigger than the debt of the whole African continent. Of course the same privatizations of state property were enforced by IMF to Greece, shrinking its economy. There are also the European Unions neocolonial policies towards the periphery, which turned Greece into a tourist monoculture. This debt shrunk the greek economy by at least 30% and caused huge migration and loss of workforce. The hypocricy of the West is immeasurable when they talk about Chinese debt trap.
Maybe you could consider making an episode about neocolonial practices within the so called developed word where European Union countries are supposed to belong, with cases like these of Greece, Romania, Bulgaria, Poland etc.
Agree with you. Any help from the IMF, the World Bank, and other Western financial institutions is a debt trap designed to make a country stay poor forever.
Thank you for helping me to better understand China's economic policy. It seems China strives to adhere to the mandate of Heaven, that is Harmony. US seems to strive to adhere to the mandate of Hell, that is chaos.
Radhika could advise Michael about what camera filters to use. 😁. Joke aside loved this chapter! "Harmony" concept was debated deep! Yep pragmatic. Applause
Girl Michael has seen the Beatles play live at your age😀
@@Breakfast_of_Champions I am 43 years old male by the way but I definitely get your point. We Brazilian hardly miss the opportunity of a joke 😁
China has prepared itself for transitioning its next phase of [advanced] economy that its economy is about to collapse is laughable. It may suffer a serious setback during the phase transition is however quite possible. No economy can escape the ups and downs of economic cycles.
just a "serious setback" - LOL, this reminds me of when Herbert Hoover said the economy was not in a crisis or a panic, merely a "depression."
@@michaels4255 the only reason GDP growth was ''only'' 5% and not 7% is real estate market... but that is one industry not linked to other countries. (can't really import and export homes... unless you live in a trailer park in redneck America. 😆) - the rest of the industry is booming... i guess you did not get the memo that China become largest car exporter in the world in 2023. 🤭🤪
Great technical analysis. Watched it from beginning till the end. The West is trying to construct a two-phase narrative on China’s economy. First it advocates China is about to collapse economically. When that fails they will argue that China’s consumption is weak. It is over investing in building surplus capacities and trying to export its way out of trouble. What it will never admit is that China is undergoing a structural revolution to a much higher tech AI based green economy. The key question here is what it means for job creation and how this will spill over to all sectors of the economy.
Thanks for another intelligent talk!
Thanks again. Looking forward to more
34:20 He said it with a straight face😂. I almost missed the sarcasm.
mick seems like the sweetest guy, such a refreshing scholar that doesn’t sound so full of themselves
Another excellent discussion. I stumbled upon your xhannel looking for a discussion with Michael Hudson on China, and was very pleased to discover this channel. I watched part 1 and just concluded this video, part 2.
Exceptionally informative. Thank you.
Thanks!
Thanks for the analysis as always
Guys, you're doing an Amazing job at enlightening your Audience. Your analysis is precious to me. The reason is because your analysis is well balanced and truly objective. You really allow the Audience to form a clear idea about China's evolvement economically and politically speaking.
I just started listening to that second part I have been waiting for impatiently. I am going to have a very Pleasant day today.
Thanks again for your work.
I will make sure to contribute to the channel.
Both Ben Norton's pieces and the exchange of the panel are simply precious to any Educated individual who's looking for a solid analysis based on facts and solid sources.
Great job Lady and Gentlemen !!!
No enough people in the West is seeing this wonderful data backed discussion. Thanks
thank you
Thank you so much for three outstanding knowledgeable scholars, so fresh state so fairly correctly about Chinese economy, and the part of a foreign policy countries, philosophy, the keyword harmony
Awesome discussions. Thanks for sharing.
Excellent! Congratulations, I am used to read you both, I have most of your books, but I didn't know Mick Dunford. Thank you very much.
Great! Thanks!
Absolute top quality geopolitical economic analysis.
Thank you Radhika, Michael and Mick ✊🏼
Radhika's point about the western conception of harmony - it being a good that emerges from free markets - is well made. The argument that unbridled capitalism will produce harmony and peace is about as compelling as the argument that "wealth will trickle down" to the less well off. The latter claim was repeatedly made during the firsts decades of the neo-liberal era, and has since been exposed as an absolutely fraudulent one.
Just like the notion of democracy in a neoliberal capitalist country, which is as absurd as a warm ice or virgin pr**titute. How can you ever be really democratic when the vast majority of that population is indebted to its richest elite.
Excellent.
Radhika and Michael are the GOAT. I remember in the 80s and 90s when I was studying economics as an undergraduate I came with the idea the manufacturing economies showed capitalism’s progressive face and financialism and service (servile) economy showed capitalism’s retrograde, premodern face. Of course, my thinking was not developed or sophisticated enough as an undergraduate to carry the argument through and I was shot down in flames by my professors. Now I see that these ideas are being developed into a powerful critique and I am so chuffed to see that others are succeeding where I didn’t. The vital ingredient I didn’t have then was a developed view of imperialism. More power to you guys.
Great analyzes
Mic is awesome, his method of explaining things are very clear and concise. I hope he is invited back on the program .
RADHIKA, you have the presentation to an artform!
It worked and flowed really well. ❤ Lots of tasks well executed.
Thank you all.
After your laugh 🤣, you were in so much flow that you forgot to machine-gun your comments. That level of prep is what you need for yourself.
You guys forgotten something about Japan? Japan is a company of America Black Rock, not a country, just like 300 hundreds years ago when the United kingdom went to India
Spot on. The US moved its industry to Japan during the 60s and did the same with Korea. Samsung and other Korean names are practically US companies.
Refreshing truths.
I think Michael Hudson deserves more Kudos and salutory deference as you go along, Radhika.
at least some economies are doing well
❤
@ 5:18 "decline in the share of household consumption expenditure has occurred as GDP has increased... so the actual 'real value' of consumption in China has increased..."
Will someone explain how this conclusion is reached? Perhaps I don't fully understand the meaning of household consumption expenditure. I would understand this if the latter is expressed as a percentage of household income (i.e., incomes have obviously increased).
Thanks!
These are the two wise men and one woman.👍
And one very wise woman.
When your base is low almost zero and when you start to grow even at a low rate it would show a big growth comparatively. When your base is bigger your annual growth would reflect a smaller growth comparatively.No country in the world would have double digit growth when your base is large.
I love your reports and find you people very helpful.
I do think that Chinese help in Africa is very unwelcome to western interests but things keep changing.
Great keep up the good work.
"China is a sleeping giant, when she wakes she will shake the world", or "China is a sleeping dragon" or China is a sleeping lion, is a phrase widely attributed (albeit without evidence) to Napoleon Bonaparte
Investment is critical - but ROI is necessary. Current investment has gone to negative return territory.
Now - investment will just create fiscal instability as returns will be less than the interest payments.
Historic graphs don’t tell us anything about expected investment ROIs
Discussions backed up by DATA.
Excellent discussion
❤❤❤❤
It should be obvious that even though the United States of America has some of the most advanced technology in the world, much of their society doesn't benefit from it. The technology simply hasn't diffused to the whole of the American society and productivity hasn't benefited as much as it should have.
✌✌✌
China's poverty line is different from that set by the United Nations and the World Bank.
Poverty in China refers to transport, medical care, education and clean water security.
Even before 2000, Chinese farmers did not worry about food.
The main problem is still the lack of medical care, and many people will be impoverished because of the cost of medical care.
The difference between China's international lending and lending by the collective west is the difference between George Bailey from the old It's a Wonderful Life movie and a mafia loan shark.
How dependent is China on foreign capital? I remember when everything in Walmart was made in China. This is starting to change. Is this why Chinese growth has slowed?
It slowed down because of the covid. It slowed down because of the US trade war with them. It slowed down because as you get richer, the more it gets hard to maintain that growth. It slowed down because of their redirection of their economy from purely export driven to also take care of the home market. There are a lot of reasons why, there is not only one.
the planet is primary.
money addicts are destroying our very "ability to exist"
perhaps communism (NO MONEY) is winning.
can you even grasp that possibility?
Trying to simplify; China is _trying_ (dynamically) to maintain a ‘working’ or thriving holistic economy. Not without competitive elements, but they are also bound to realistic changes - not ideology itself.
This is a bit like how social democracy was in Scandinavia mid 1970’s (several caveats). Our current political economy is WAY more idealistic and no longer connected to (serving) _our own_ realism (ord. people’s needs). The OECD is driven by beliefs in the past economic models - while we accuse China of being idealists.
Well, they were, but if there’s one important value in socialism, it’s the certainty of change and adaptation (deliberated through dialectics). The OECD doesn’t _want_ change, even as our own societies are changed by _our own_ idealistic stuckness.
Conservatism competes with itself now, and fascism has historically ensued…
Cheryl Payer - The Debt Trap
Why is "consumption" supposed to be a good thing. That's capitalism, not human nature. And "growth" is not always good.
Japanification is actually "amerikkanization": i e, the plaza accords that US made Japan sign and which then destroyed their economy
Amazing China full of energy and dedication to the mission ahead👍
Fockin 1st
The idea that China can have "too much" production of consumables is sort of ridiculous.
They produce everything in the world. Not to get too MMT, but if they stopped being able to sell abroad, much of their excess stock could be purchased domestically with a simple welfare scheme.
It's not like the businesses depend on using USD to get their inputs or pay their labor. Almost the entire supply chains for these manufacturers are entirely within China.
There would be some inflation if this happened, for sure. Some goods will not be able to meet demand from new purchasing power increases if they went this route.
There's also the issue that some of these firms produce things not used for consumption. Factories producing intermediate or industrial goods for export would be affected quite harshly.
There is a difference between communist, socialist and capitalist minded economist. This article is excellent and a combination of 2 socialist economist thinking verses 1 partial capitalist thinking economist. It’s 100% true that % GDP into investment is astonishing a reason why it grew at a rate that astonished world. I do not agree GDP growth based on high % domestic investment works out economically straight forward in this era when nations are getting protective on jobs, security, realisation of intellectual copy right violation. Over all it’s an excellent model of socialism, an envy of capitalism and the world needs it for higher happiness index as well as a balanced society. Economy will always be in the hands of capitalists few no matter how powerful is Govt, it cannot take over world economy based on socialism spending.
Is it possible for the guess to talk about his ideas (lectures etc) by himself in his own flow instead of the current being led format? We viewers can get a much better idea of the coherence of his research and thoughts process.
And who runs the western media? Don't ask, or you'll disappear 🤫
im from mexico and i dont understand why latin american goverments dont follow your assestment about the external debt
It is not Western prediction. It is more about lying to themselves in order to sleep well.😂
What about "truth tellers" in USRAEL about BOOMING economy . USARAL ,UK ,EU path to the 3 or even 4 World.
This interview reminds me of THIS SONG (less than 2 minutes) from "The King and I:"
czcams.com/video/WGS029Peq7k/video.html
Is the goal of a classless, stateless society still on the agenda in China? Seems like the state if more powerful than ever. Could we see a shift if the bully is dethroned?
The worst thing China could do now would be to liberalize or weaken state authority.
By bully you of course refer to america, yes?
The question, as I see it, is:
- Is the CPC genuinely a workers' party?
- Does it systematically oppress the capitalist class?
- Are there indications that the capitalist class will gradually be eliminated, as indicated by the Manifesto, by having their capital "levered away by degrees"? Or is the PRC merely seeking a social-democratic stalemate?
Here's the bottom line: China had 15 years of malinvestment on a historically unprecedented scale and feel good real estate speculation also on an unprecedented scale, its true (not just admitted to) aggregate debt level cannot be financed (basically insolvent), the working age population is permanently SHRINKING, birth rates have fallen like a rock into the abyss, a large part of the country's land and water has been polluted to the point that it is dangerously unsafe for consumption or food production, and the government has in recent years turned back to repressive policies typical of the Maoist years which is scaring off both foreign residents and foreign investment. On top of that, the CCP is clearly preparing for offensive operations against Taiwan, which the mainland's megalomaniacal Communist dictator has been personally obsessed with seizing control of for decades. This is not a mere bump in the road. It's the end of the road.
Ok thanks Peter Zeihan, make sure you report back to your CIA cutout think-tank Stratfor before your shift in the comment section is over today
💯🐉🇨🇳🐉💯
Sino sphere
🧞☯️🕉️☸️🧞
lol
Please do a pure political analysis of CR period and the Marxist debate inside CPC during 1966-86 period....and also please do a comparative analysis of the improvement in workers and peasants living standard of the two period 1949-1978 and 1978-2007..Most of the left is affected by.ultra left dogmatic analysis of China reform and opening up as "capitalist restoration"....They claim that CPC serves the interest of capitalists class, workers are exploited just like in other capitalist countries and CPC's Marxism is a facade to misled the masses...Thanks
Along these lines, I asked in Part 1 of this video if they could point to concrete evidence of the DOTP in modern China. I think they are uniquely qualified to analyze this question.
Do not take the words of predecessors as the answer, because The Times can not be done before the change, why can not be done now, Marx's definition is only the enlightenment of China, but Marx said is the idea of their era, The Times are changing so the policy is changing.
I am not sure why there are three speakers all repeating each other’s points in an echo chamber. Can’t the organizer be a little less lazy and invite a more diverse guest list
This is a sad face-saving attempt, probably employed by the middle kingdom's government. The western media does sometime exaggerate about the state of China and its economy, but the overall narrative is true. China's economy is in dire straits, and it much more heavily dependent on the US than vice versa. I've lived in China for over 6 years, and to pretend that poverty and housing isn't a huge problem is equally delusional. In the rural areas, most people don't even have any running water, plumbing, refrigeration, etc.. This is not debatable. Chinese people readily admit this. Furthermore, China is headed toward demographic collapse (although western media exaggerates how soon it will happen). And I don't know by what metric China is considered an "upper middle income country", but whatever. Btw, I love China. But lying about the situation in China and misrepresenting the economy to make it seem better than it actually is, is pointless. And people who talk about "debt to China" or a "trade deficit" have no idea what they're actually saying. No, the US doesn't 'owe' China trillions of dollars. All that it means is the US is buying more than they're selling. That's literally all that means.
I think you are a sham.eless liar from the United Snakes..
What I've learned over time of listening to all of what Michael Hudson says, it's clear he's an anti-black racist that "sounds kind", so that it's subtle. But I hear it, like in past videos where he's dismissed Jim Crow and other anti-black measures
How is he anti black?
Citations needed
@@NotAPacifist825 no problem. Gotta look thru about 20 hours of content with him again. Give me a few weeks. I used to have it time stamped. He brushed off him crow and muttered under his breath with her on one of the geopolitical economy hours in the past. I wanna say number 4 or 5, could have been 6.
But I'll come back with receipts. This comment I been holding back, but as someone told me just yesterday, we shouldn't allow people to say things without responsibility.
@@angrycrypto465 please do. Him making a racist comment would be extremely surprising, to say the least.
No problem. Racism is both overt and covert. I would consider his covert, and if I didn't pay attention to them, I wouldn't have noticed. but I will be back with a receipt of at least that. ttyl@@NotAPacifist825
Appears to be just not rational. Lot of meandering discussion without actually talking about the impact of issues in the economy
7:07 "$1.96" c'mon man 2 decimals!? just say 2 dollars a day! who cares about the 4 cents!?
anyway, that's just my 5 cents. keep it simple. y0u confused me I thought you said 96 a day
Tons of propaganda on this topic
see the Asian faces in the academic fields - there are a lot more in China. In denial much?