So The Truth Finally Comes Out...Kylo Ren Adam Driver
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- čas přidán 13. 12. 2023
- Adam Driver appeared on the @RichEisenShow and reveals the depths of Kylo Ren's origins from JJ Abrams, only to have Rian Johnson change the whole original plan around for fit his The Last Jedi movie...
I think JJ's original idea would have been better.
No Ben Solo. No Dyad in Rise of Skywalker. No Rey vs Palpatine. Nothing.
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The writers truly hated the OT trio. They just disrespected those characters from start to finish. Had the only offspring from the Skywalker/Solo family kill and or abuse them all and then in the end wiped out the entire family. What absolute garbage
And in the end, the Skywalker bloodline has ended, while a Palpatine lives on.
The Emperor won.
Personally, I don’t mind that Kylo did the most extreme actions to try to earn his seat in the dark side proper. It speaks to his insecurities and the lengths those without true power will go to prove themselves. Han definitely had to die though, regardless because I doubt Ford would have signed on for another, so I appreciate his death in this way instead of some rando death gang or old age hehe
And to add insult to injury, they made him make out with his cousin 💀
I think they disrespected Carrie and Mark, on a professional level, clearly.
@@grandmasterg8572 Star Wars has always championed familial make-outs 😂
Kylo Ren was poised to be one of the best characters of the sequel trilogy. Amazing actor in Adam Driver, grandson of Anakin Skywalker, great planned character arc. So sad that Disney failed such an amazing opportunity.
I'd argue he's still the best character. That isn't necessarily saying much, but he remains top.
@@KiddDaPhoenixYeah, we're not talking about a high bar here. With how the characters started and their concepts were presented, Finn and Kylo were my favorites. Straight into the toilet, though.
Given there are no good, memorable and meaningful characters from the sequels other than the OG trio, that's a pretty low bar.
Adam Driver’s performance is the best thing about the Sequel trilogy. They definitely wasted a potentially great villain.
I don't think so 🤔 kylo was an example of how to create a menacing character without the menace. He had no presence. I honestly thought he was a funny joke and that's before the mask came off and them big ole ears came out.. 😅 seriously they couldn't have given us a character so far removed from the mencing, intelligent and nuanced Vader...
Adam knew how much potential his character truly had
😢😢😢😢
The characters only have the potential that the author gives them. And J. J. Abrams was never a good writer.
I liked the actors in the new trilogy! They all did good work.
@@stevesmith9617they did great! It was the writers that sucked
just rewatched TFA today and after hearing this interview I really think Adam did a better job than I previously thought. He is almost childish in TFA because he's trying so hard to be bad. if they had kept his arc going i have no doubt Adam would've delivered very well
That’s the only Kylo I like is that one movie. Then they massacred my boy.
It’s the best of the three, still not really that good but I really liked Kylo in 7. I also don’t get why they changed his outfit, his robes in TFA looked SICK
They are all childish, it felt like I’m watching power rangers with Star Wars music in the background
At least John Williams didn’t write a rap song for the credits theme
Good actor given garbage material.
It’s sad how one of the biggest movie franchises was basically was made up on the fly. No plan at all.
“Uhhhhhh, then Finn and Rose go to a casino and ride animals”, “who cares if it has no affect on the plot, film it”
@@stringer2295 “corporate greed is like bad. Ignore the fact that this movie is made by a major corporation. Ok now back to the plot!”
@@daveblackman816 exactly lol
Not only did they disrespected the legacy characters, but they also did Finn really dirty. He was one of the most promising characters in the franchise and they made him into a bumbling joke.
The plan was to make the force feminist and the actual trilogy plot didn't pique Disney's interest cause the propaganda takes precedence over content for the mouse
Kylo is compelling mostly because of Adam, not because of the writing. Imagine if he had a really good script and consistent direction to work with lol
Honestly I can imagine him in the first 6 cannon movies before Disney and he could've been a much more compelling character next to Vader with a more profound writing than what we got from Disney's feminist-force conceived from some basement writers
This. Kylo was a whiny brat a lot of the time. But Adam still managed to make him captivating.
I couldn't agree more, Adam got me through those awful movies.
That's a huge part of the tragedy of the Disney Sequels. All of the actors and actresses in the main cast are extremely talented and they were given shit to work with. Daisy Ridley is a very good actress and now is tied forever to these crap movies. At least Adam has gotten other high profile roles since his tenure as Kylo Ren.
I respect Adam for the sheer fact that he didn't participate in any of the drama from disneys bullshit vs the fans. He showed up for work did his job as an actor. Nothing more, nothing less, and other than that kept his mouth shut. A quality that many actors are missing these days.
Also remember: George was going to get a royalties percentage from use of the OT characters, and so Disney being the greedy 🤡's they are did not want to use them any more than they had to. Tossing George's original 7,8,9, episode outline treatments ensured they didn't have to share that much profit with him for using those characters.
Lucasfilm continue to use Luke and C3PO
Ironically they would have made more as the films would have performed better they played themselves.
That is absolutely NOT TRUE. George sold SW and he makes zero royalties from it. That "fan theory" has never been verified by any source. Total BS.
No matter what, George wanted more midichlorians and science sperm flying around through everyone for his og plan for the force for 7, 8, and 9. Nah, I definitely didn't want that dumb shit either 🤣
Disney and George should have given Star Wars to A24
I'm soo glad that you and my boy Mauler have set aside elementary playground rules and linked up for some of the most compelling and highly relatable content I've listened to in a VERY long time. Cheers to both of you well spoken gentleman, and here's to hoping that we will experience a proper continuation of the Star Wars Cinematic Universe in our lifetimes. Carry On Boys!
It’s such a good point made. EVEN IF YOU LIKE THE SEQUEL TRILOGY, you CANNOT pretend that Disney handled the property well and with care and with forethought. There wasn’t a plan. We know, quite literally, they made a 3-part movie series - part of a wider 9-part series - without even an outline. How can anybody pretend that’s handling the property with care?
"lets wing it!"😜
@jamesarnold7253 clickbait is just the way of internet content in fairness, not anything particular to the Star Wars fandom. If you’re making a point that it’s 4 years on and people should stop complaining about the sequel trilogy… well, yeah. Maybe. But it’s not like Star Wars just ended with the sequel movies. Lots of content is still being produced which is tied to the movies, so it makes sense - especially for an IP this large - that people will still talk about it.
@jamesarnold7253 yep, that’s a fair observation then. It certainly is anger beyond your usual ‘wow, that film was bad.’ Think that’s the nature of fandom, as opposed to fans, if you take my distinction. Fandoms react and feel a lot more about an IP than an ordinary ‘fan’ would.
Then there’s the whole culture war stuff, with lots of people saying people who hate the Sequels only hate them because they’re sexist and yada yada yada. That generates even more conversation and argument, even with the movies being 4 years ago.
But yeah… clickbait will clickbait. It is the way.
Anyone who likes the sequels is part of the Disney Alliance and a traitor.
The thing is it sounded like Abrams did have an outline for the sequels, but then they threw it out so they could bring in Johnson. I want to see Abrams’s original plans
The scene where Kylo and Finn look at eachother so intensely after Hans death was the best scene in Episode 7. They ruin it with Finn not being the Jedi.
They ruined everything
fr fr
Their lightsaber duel in the snow when Kylo starts it off screaming traitor is the best fight in the sequels.
Finn not being a jedi is the biggest missed opportunity in media since the death of Raditz in DBZ.
The only ORIGINAL scene in the entire sequel trilogy... and it was amazing. The rest was trash.
I think Kylo Ren going full dark side would have been pretty cool. One possibility I considered was having Kylo take on a pseudo Anakin role, opting for a total gray route versus Rey going entirely dark side. It'd form a new parallel with Kylo and Rey where rather than something as black and white as dark and light, Kylo Ren represents those shades of gray-- that wide spectrum between light and shadow. He is the one who eventually attains balance within the sea of gray. Rey represents the extremities. She is either all in on the light or all in on the dark. No in-between with her. It works with their characters as is too. Rey is very rash and all in on whatever she sets her mind to. She deals in absolutes. Kylo Ren is passionate, but has enough of an analytical mind on things to take a step back and look at what's happening around him. Example: with that weird dyad stuff, Rey spends that whole thing freaking out. Kylo Ren spends the moment briefly fascinated and immediately working to understand the mechanic.
The ending of episode 9 is a cataclysmic clash that doesn't end in anyone winning. Both sides are effectively forced to flee, setting the stage for the new fresh slate they clearly wanted focusing on these new characters. Rather than the ending focusing on Rey, it ends with Kylo, teasing that when we revisit the Saga, Kylo's gonna be the main character from now on. This in turn makes Episodes 7-9 Rey's villain origin story. The new "Skywalker Saga" ending opts to build off of what we had from these two from episode 7 (because 8 is a travesty and is not canon). These two held promise but currently lack the power of the people they live in the shadows of. The last Skywalker's destiny remains haunted by the dark side and the new "hero" turns out to be the beginning of a new era of darkness for the galaxy at large. The Chosen One ended Palpatine's era of darkness. We keep the prophecy in place and don't mess with it. No Palps resurrections here. This era is a totally new chess board with a new darkness and no clear light side wielder in sight for our two leads. At least at first.
But then how'd Luke die? They don't kill him. That's for sure. I am a firm believer that outside of every cop out under the sun that Episode 8 threw at Luke, there was no way either of them could have killed him even IF their lightsaber combat skills weren't at the level of a literal youngling. He dies saving them both after their clash causes a massive explosion or meltdown that would've certainly killed them otherwise. Luke forgiving and saving Kylo Ren forces him to re-examine his entire view of Luke, but now his unintentional hand in killing Luke gives him his own spin on Vader's self loathing. Rather than portraying him as some fanboy who wants to be Vader, this gives him an actual arc that gets him there emotionally on some level.
Thereby, Episode 9 is not Rise of Skywalker, but Fall of Skywalker. Meanwhile for Luke, it's a better death than force ghost projection after a weird arc of deciding he's just done having force powers. He forgives Kylo for falling, but also re-asserts one of the major themes of the OT: no one is ever really gone. That final act is his last attempt to reach out to Ben, and whether Ben wants to admit it or not in that moment, it plants the seeds for the journey we're about to walk with him. Meanwhile with Rey, her fall had already begun by this point and her ultimately having a hand in killing Luke is what finally pushes her over the edge. No more hesitation. No more regrets. No more holding back. The galaxy is safer if she's in charge of it. The lust for power is there and it's off to the races. Once again, this highlights their duality. Someone drifting in between and someone who rages on either extremity like a smoldering flame. I will say this admittedly is crummy for anyone who really wanted Episode 9 to be the cut and dry end of Star Wars, but I was trying to factor in the idea that it ends the Skywalker Saga, but not necessarily the tales of the Galaxy far, far away. That and doing so without killing off the entire Skywalker bloodline since Kylo Ren makes it out alive. It also gives Luke a better ending because... It's Luke freaking Skywalker. If we have to kill the man, it's gonna serve a meaningful purpose, and we're gonna get treated to an actual display of Luke's abilities post time as a fully trained master. Frankly, I'd try to avoid doing that entirely if it were up to me, but I think with this particular set of events, it's the most effective way to get Rey and Kylo where they need to be on the chess board for what follows.
This whole chain of events sets up your next trilogy after a time skip of training and several clashes between the two. Bonus points if Kylo's introduction scene in Ep 10's trailer has a lightsaber fire up scene as badass as the Episode 7 trailer. Maybe give him a new saber type to go along with the grey theme. You can have him learn from Anakin's force ghost. Send him on a totally new character arc. Anakin's been there. He gets it. He can start Ben down a new path. Then perhaps after a journey of self discovery as his whole conflict with Darth Rey goes on, he finally gets to a point where he meets and reconciles with Luke's force ghost for the final leg of his training. Not so much to receive some final power boost or force skill, but for his final lesson as a balanced force wielder: forgiveness. Forgiveness in others and forgiveness for himself. Perhaps emerging from this journey properly balanced, Kylo Ren finally squares up with Rey one last time and wins. What happens from there, honestly I don't know. Thematically, it makes sense to spare Rey. Plus, it affords them the cheap option of keeping the romance sub plot. I guess.
Completely irrelevant side note: but I'd hope that by this hypothetical ep 12 fight, Adam and Daisy would have had enough time to learn lightsaber combat to give us a Revenge of the Sith tier lightsaber battle.
Love it! One "👍🏿 " for the thought (and typing...😮💨), and a bonus "❤️🔥❗️" for the passion!
To quote the Green Hornet : "I would totally see the $#!+ outta it!"
You said that Kylo Ren (Ben) and Rey are not Youngling level when Kylo Ren easily killed a Zillo Beast? Something that Yoda, Anakin and Obi Wan couldn’t do?
My favourite bit of acting from Driver was actually his (nearly silent) performance as Ben Solo near the end of ROTS. I liked that so much that I was asking myself "Why couldn't we have THIS for the majority of the Trilogy?" Like, he starts off good, falls to the Dark Side in Ep.VIII but turns back in IX.
He wasn't in RotS. Leia was barely in RotS.
I meant TROS, damn acronyms…
You know what?
I would have liked the ST to have been about Ben Solo aka Kylo Ren because he was the last Skywalker, and it was the Skywalker saga.
I made the mistake of saying this on a SW fan forum in a thread dedicated to John Boyega's Finn character. I was banned after being told that I was 'racist' for 'putting a white character in front of the Black male lead.'
Like Adam, I am now done with SW.
Though I despise the sequels even I will concede that for the most part Adam Drivers performance was the major aspect of the sequel trilogy
How? I couldn't take him seriously. He wasn't menacing and the fact that his character was void if any mystery with taking off the mask...
@@patdawg1980it wasn’t his fault. With better writing it would’ve made Kylo’s character more compelling and just better overall. Adam Driver did his best with what he had
@@texas-red8457 I agree with you
@@patdawg1980 Blame it on the writing and the directing.
@LaraA55 they could've just adapted the superior legends story but we know why they didn't. As I said, kylo is a trash character from a trash trilogy.
Listening to this, it just dawned on me how little to no dark side struggles there were in the sequel trilogy. One of the central themes of Star Wars was about resisting the dark side of the force and that's barely touched upon through Kylo Ren and even there it's not really a struggle so much as things just happening. It felt more like Marvel villains/heroes switching sides than fighting temptation.
A cheap knock off of starwars
They had the opposite, Ren was the sith being corrupted by the light side.
Uh yeah that's because there was the INVERSE. Kylo Ren spent the trilogy resisting the LIGHT. That was the entire point. He believed through the dark side he would find who he was meant to be. He talks about feeling the pull to the light, and murders Han Solo in an attempt to sever himself from that struggle. Instead, the act merely brings himself more into conflict and with Rey there's even more further conflict and by the end of Episode 8 he has abandoned the path of the sith or Jedi, dark or light, and forged his own path through taking control of The First Order. In Episode 9, Rey is resisting the dark side but she succumbs to it multiple times in her conflicts with Kylo. Whereas Kylo no longer gives a shit and he fights her calmly and taunts her without emotional outbursts. He's balanced. It's through Rey and Leia that Kylo realizes he's at the end of his path. He doesn't so much turn to the light, as much as he accepts this is who he is meant to be. While Rey needed Luke to convince her to face the emperor, he didn't.
@@Radb707 So yeah, I get what you're saying and that it was likely their intent, but compare any of this to the end of RotJ with Luke and Vader or RotS with Anakin.
None of it felt impactful or like a genuine struggle. Okay, the Kylo and Han scene in FA did, I'll give it that. The rest were just "this scene needs to exist, okay, moving on".
You explained it well, it just isn't felt, so let me amend my comment with: "... how little the struggles are depicted..."
Kylo's struggle is supposed to be the tug toward the light to make it different, yet you probably complain the sequels are the same so idk wtf you want
you probably also complain about CGI luke but say they should've de aged Anakin in the Obi-Wan show 😂
I'm with you on Rey going to the Dark Side, Theory. She looked angry practically every time she used the Force!
Yeah I agree, Rey should have also been drawn to the dark. I think she should have fallen and become Kylo’s apprentice and then Finn becomes the hero. Maybe he redeems her in the end but Kylo should have definitely become darker and darker and a level of threat Vader would have been if he hadn’t been burned.
This would’ve been cool
Exsactly, imagine a Vader with no limitations. THAT would have been a threat. And a worthy final duel.
If JJ had directed all 3, and Kylo had had this arc, it might have made the whole Kylo losing to Rey thing slightly better. Not great, but better. If he had come back in 8 and absolutely mucked Rey during a confrontation at the end of the film, it would have helped tell this story of Kylo fully embracing being on the dark side and turning into a true threat for the conclusion of the trilogy for episode 9. It would have helped make his first defeat to Rey be as a result of his inner turmoil he was feeling at the time.
after seeing how he directed the star trek films, i doubt it
@@medalgear654 You don't know what you're talking about. J.J only directed Star Trek - and he did a dam good job. He is a great director. The 'writing' is the problem. There are plenty of movies out there with great directing and poor screenplays.
Abrams very DELIBERATELY stepped out after 7 because he doesn’t know how to continue and conclude stories in a satisfying way. Hiring him in the first place was a mistake
@@GreenFalcon926 "only directed Star Trek"? Exactly WHO doesn't know what they're talking about? lol
True it would’ve been better if Jj directed all 3 though what would have been if Dave faloni did all 3 movies
The Original Trilogy made changes along the way. However, there’s a big difference between changing plans and making it up along the way.
Not to mention they left story threads open for sequels.
The original Star Wars is pretty self-contained but it left enough for Empire Strikes Back to be a thing.
Each sequel somehow contradicts the prequels with a sudden change of plans with an interior motive to make Rey sublime in all plotlines who was merely an amateurish padawan with little to no combat training and went solo against Kylo on each encounter cause y'know the force is feminist
Exactly. Luca made changes to fix the story, and improve as it went. The target was always there, even if it altered because of the changes. There was still a plan.
@@cerousmutor7606 I'm a Special Education teacher, but I tell ALL students: never start a project without a plan. Three paragraph response? Plan the three topic sentences before writing. As Villeneuve quipped, "Fix it in prep!"
George Lucas turned the love triangle into a father son/sibling thing after shooting. He had an overall arch but he was also making stuff up along the way.
I remember leaving TFA realizing it was similar to ANH but was so intrigued by all the characters and where they’d go. I left TLJ feeling there was no way you could possibly wrap this up with 1 movie. I do feel Rian would have made a good original movie or trilogy, but he was a poor choice for a middle part with the established characters. I really feel bad for sequel trilogy’s actors.
When Kylo’s helmet came off I laughed out loud in the cinema. It was such a story killer. At least wait until the redemption part.
Kylo being Vader 2.0 for 3 movies. Never revealing who he is only to see in the final act of the 3rd movie that he is Ben Solo...That just gives me chills thinkin about. I personally think that would have been so great. Could have been this generations version of "I am Your Father". But Imagine its reversed "I'm Your Son." or something. I just love the idea of NOT seeing who he is until the final act in the final movie. Makes his character hit way harder and be way more mysterious. We would be guessing the whole time as to who he is and be in shock to see its Han's son in the end. Oh well!
Can you get out of here with common sense and great story telling, there’s no place for that at Disney….
Interesting take that I didn't think about.
Yeah same. When they showed kylo’s face in TFA, and saw the dude from “Girls”, it took away the entire intimidation factor. Just seemed like some geek obsessed with his awesome grandpa.
This means Han Solo needs to be the main character and that story doesn’t work
@@setokaiba3458 I dont think he needs to be the main character but if Leia and Luke were part of the movies, Han would obviously also be apart of it. Im not trying to think of the entire plot and story line of a Starwars Trilogy to make my idea work lol I just like the general idea of Kylo being a faceless Sith badass the whole movies then reveal hes some main characters son or cloned from one of the main characters DNA or something at the end of the trilogy, not in the first movie or second. Just ANYWAY to have a reveal that he was some how part of the Luke/Leia blood line. Maybe hes talking to LEIA when he says "Im Your Son". That would hit just as hard. Just brainstormin!
"what we were supposed to get is much more compelling"
That's the one phrase that captures the entirety of the sequel trilogy.
😑
I thought we would see a progression of Kylo from where he was in 7 to becoming the big bad for 9 to give us an idea of how a Sith progresses, killing the master to become the master. And now that he's a master with an apprentice, could he still come back to the light? That is something I thought would be very interesting to see.
You described Revan, who was a Jedi Knight who became a Sith Lord, who then returned to the light redeemed as a Jedi once again.
The actor selection combined with the build up leading to the release of Force Awakens had me insanely excited for Kylo Ren. I was so fired up for the potential I saw in this character and the actor bringing him to life. Then...well...the actual movie happened.
I still don’t like the idea of their original idea for kylo because it leaves Han Luke and Leia as failures. I think all of this just shows even more that KK really was a coattails talent. Spielbergs comments about her saying “how about he (Indy) doesn’t get the girl but he gets the dog.” interrupting in that meeting , along with many other decisions like this can confirm she might be able to get things done for a movie because of the clout she now has but has not decernable talent and still has a massive attitude a ego.
I will say, in the novels (the not cannon anymore ones), Han and leia’s son Jason does turn to the dark side, but it’s done a lot better lol. There’s a way to do it where the original characters don’t look like a bunch of incompetent morons.
You do realise Kathleen Kennedy doesn’t make every single individual decision right? 😭 blame the writers just as much as her. Besides, Lucasfilm as a whole is just a division within Disney. KK has bosses to answer to. She’s not the one making every final decision. When anything bad happens in Star Wars its KK’s fault. But when anything good happens it’s thanks to Filoni lol. Funny how nobody gives her any praise when something good comes out of SW, only when it’s something they don’t like. I don’t even like KK that much but it’s insane how deluded some SW fans are lol
@@gamestation130 they aren’t real star wars fans lol they just are a bunch of grifters who want stuff to fail and hate it when people do find enjoyment in things. They also pretend like its not a common opinion that the Sequels sucked, but they also make it into a political or other similar issue. SWT is just Doomcock or Geeks + Gamers 2.0, aka a liar who is making up shit or purposefully misleading people.
@@SobaOfPulaski facts. And then they say something like “Andor isn’t real Star Wars” like first of all, that’s cap lol. And second of all, explain to me how something that isn’t “real Star Wars” is the best Star Wars content in literally decades. They complain when we see the same story over and over but complain when we see something completely new. It’s also hilarious to me because if the originals came out today they would be crying it’s “woke” and running that narrative. Star Wars has always been “woke” (whatever that even means) but they just use it as a way to try and validate their own prejudice
@@SobaOfPulaski I used to absolutely love star wars theory, now I can’t get through a video without cringing. He complains about anything and everything in Star Wars to the point where I wonder if he even likes star wars unless it has Anakin / Vader in it. Also hilarious how he will absolutely shit on Disney / KK / modern SW but his entire career is based on star wars. Just biting the hand that feeds him. Not that he can’t have valid and genuine criticisms, because of course he can, but that’s not what he’s doing nowadays
Imagine a trilogy in which Luke actually trained Finn and Rey to be the next generation. They had Mark Hamil and couldn't wait to push him aside. That was my major issue with the 3 movies, not Rey herself (I actually liked her introduction with John William's score)
That's what makes her mysterious character cause if that song like who is she?
@@Eohll Yea, the first scene with her was great. Here is a new character and the music with the backdrop of the old walkers and star destroyers I loved as a kid broken in the sand. It gave me a feeling of "OK, there is the old about to be replaced with something good and new." Well, I was um... wrong. But a little hint of that theme played when Rey took Luke's Xwing to Exegol, (that scene when she was mistaken for Red 5) and Rey's theme played, it was momentarily emotional because they mentioned Luke (the guy who should have had more time in the movies) and William's Rey score. I thought to myself "If they could make me feel emotional for Rey and Luke for just a moment in a trilogy I hated, imagine what could have been.
the thing about Rian Johnson is that he is a good director, if he has full creative liberty, with little to no need for continuity. Give him a random story in the star wars universe and it will be less good than other of his films, but better than episode 8, he is good at making films with little demand for following established canon or ideas.
I also agree, Kylo Ren was so close to being perfect. Adam Driver was a good fit for Kylo, he did most of the job hold the sequels above water.
Totally agree on your comment on Adam. Love him. He's was the best part of the sequel trilogy, despite being mistreated so badly
It’s very difficult at this stage for me to believe Kennedy wanted Star Wars to continue to exist in its Lucas incarnation. She wanted it destroyed and replaced, and worked quite deliberately to undermine and sabotage the fictional universe.
"Somehow Palpatine returned". I still trip on that sentence. I did like Kylo though, especially the scene where he didn't fire on Leia, that small facial acting he did was memorable to me.
It really should have read "The idiot that written and directed the past movie killed the lead baddie and the only person that could take his place was turned into a bumbling fool so this is the next "best" thing".
You can tell Oscar Isaac looked so dead inside when he had to say that god awful line. He even sounded angry by the tone of his voice in that moment.
Right !!! Listen, TLJ infuriated me so much I walked out the movie. Never even bothered with ROS. But earlier this yr SW marathon was on . I think it was ep5 or 6. I leave for hrs n leave the TV on. Me n my gf walk in and its literally on that part. "Somehow Palpatine returned" ? Me and her jst looked at each other and bust out LOL even she was like wtf was that n she's not even a fan. I immediately turned it off 😅😅😅
Same, i checked out totally at that same scene.
Killed any “seriousness” in that film. Pretty sure most the “resistance” wasn’t even alive or older than 2 when palpatine died 30 years earlier let alone while he was ruling… I bet most of them would have been like “who??”
Unforgivables:
1. Big 3 never in the same room together.
2. Luke being pathetic.
3. Not leaning into the idea of a "New Jedi Order"- Your whole plot could have been Luke tried it the way the old Jedi did, realizes that removing attachments resulted in Vader and Kylo Ren, and makes changes to the Jedi Code before he dies.
4. Teasing Finn and making him a garbage character by the second movie.
5. Starkiller Base was extremely stupid.
6. Not explaining in the films why the New Republic has no means of defending itself or how the First Order was ever allowed to exist. You have to read novels for that.
7. Cancelling out the chosen one's contributions and making it feel like ROTJ didn't matter.
These movies should have been easy. They didn't require a crazy plot. The building blocks were there: PT is a cautionary tale, OT is about saving the galaxy to fix the PT, and ST should have been about establishing the new status quo. It's simple story circle/Joseph Campbell plot writing.
Food for thought: The only reason we still crave stories from these eras is because the Sequel Trilogy didn't do a good job of putting a bow on this story, and so we are unfulfilled and want more. We could have been in an era where we were mainly exploring beyond the ST or the Old Republic eras, but instead we are stuck slogging through more PT-ST era stories in hopes something makes us feel better about how it ends.
It didn't change because of Rian Johnson. Kylo's arc was still on-track as Adam Driver states. It only changed in TROS - the Abrams film.
Because something had to be done after the shitshow that was Rian Wars and ofc the last one Return of Jedi Abrahms was an even larger shitshow. If Darth Jar Jar had just done all the films in his vision however it would go, would be atleast coherent. Thats why the prequels, however bad CGI and however cheesy story telling still holds up. There was a vision of how shit was supposed to flow.
@@JarlBorg93
That'd be a first. Have you seen JJA's films? They aren't coherent and don't have good endings.
At least Johnson knows how to end his stories.
The Prequels had about 2 good ideas but they weren't well-told stories.
Well lets agree to disagree, thats cool with me :)@@ULYSSES-31
This crap is so crazy. My parents and I have been fans since the beginning. My dad and I watched the originals together. My mother joined us for the prequels. My dad passed after the prequels. So it was my mom and I who watched the sequels. I will never forget what my mother said after the last jedi. I'm glad your father never saw that. We both never saw the rise of Skywalker Skywalker. We try to remember the good times. I couldn't put her through another one of these movies or myself.
I both loved and hated how episode 9 ended up telling us that Rian messed up for the start and actively spent about 30 minutes trying to undo as much as they can of what he did which damaged not only episode 9 but the sequel trilogy as a whole. If there's any universe outside of X men that needed the whole universe hopping and undoing of bad decisions, it's the sequel trilogy.
I think iden version’a story was actually a decently well written one. It showed Luke’s strength and connection to the light side (via him saving del) and how merciful it allowed him to become while it also gave some a decent amount of character development for iden and del on how they turned to the light side, del especially.
Hey Theory. That was an interesting video. What Adam said is consistent with what Kevin Trevaro’s story was supposed to end his character with.
Back when I was doing my Star Wars rewrite, I had a plan made for the Jedi. While not explicitly stated in the initial hypothetical film, it would be revealed in the later ones. What we learn is Luke’s plan for the Jedi was to be the order has two members, a master and apprentice be stationed on a single planet. Their job was to essentially live among the people and deescalate violent situations. Even during Luke’s time, Jedi would be in both New Republic and Imperial Remnant territory. Another thing was Luke had discovered and reinvented a form of Jedi Force Martial Arts. While intended for fight, it was primarily defensive. Its ultimate purpose is that it was a set of stances, movements and forms that act as a sort of dance performance. This is something both the force and non-force using members of the ancient Jedi order would do in their temples whenever a disagreement happened. It would essentially temporarily set all minds at ease and essentially form a brief connection and understanding. It is said that if two masters of this technique, Jedi or otherwise, were to go at each other, full force, using this technique, one would embrace the other, without either side having any blood spilt or bruise left behind. This technique would be something the Jedi pass on to the people, as they seek to resolve conflicts peacefully and search for other force sensitives to pass the mantel of responsibility to. Who/ what taught the ancient Jedi this technique would either remain a mystery or be revealed in later films. I initially wanted Snoke to be a member of this race who became disillusioned as the Jedi would transform this form of expression into something else. Then later the split of the order is what sealed the deal and began his lineage’s plan to reinvent their teachings of the force to the galaxy.
Its the fact that they dont acknowledge their failures and instead continue to double down, that really pisses us all off😤
They seem to believe their audience is both morally and intellectually inferior to them. So when the audience calls something a failure, they dont feel the need to correct themselfs, but try to "educate" the audience on why they were right all along. Its incredibly condescending, and luckily, going by numbers, it also makes them loose a crap ton of money right now^^.
@random.3665 there egos need to be checked asap!!!
Thanks for the upload. I agree that Adam Driver is an incredible actor, and I am sad that Kylo Ren as a character was wasted. Abram's team did a great job designing Kylo Ren, his sword, and coming up with the Knights of Ren concept. Like you also said, I wouldn't blame Johnson for Episode 8 either, he just got thrust into this position. It really does seem like unenthusiastic managers fumbling the projects.
I’m not going to lie. How they introduce him in the movie was amazing! Him stopping a blaster shot midair. Was super badass! Then they immediately destroy it by having that guy make fun of him. How is the audience supposed to take the bad guy seriously when the other characters in the movie doesn’t. But that was like a million years ago.
With the force awakens I feel like the setup was really good, in a way it was a pretty close copy of the originals with the whole starkiller base and stuff but if they did a little story telling with that and kylo on how history repeats itself etc. it could’ve been so good if they followed through
They just deleted all the consequences of the original trilogy. The new jedi order has been wiped off off screen and Luke is nowhere to be seen, Han Solo has lost everything off screen including his character development, The New Republic which the heroes fought to establish is wiped off by the half way point of the movie with seconds of screen time having basically no impact on the world Leia whos been a politician all her adult life seems to have no pull in the republic and is left to lead a shitty rag tag group
I so wish JJ had just done all 3 films, even if they ended up being essentially a "safe reboot" of the OT, I think Star Wars would have been in a better state overall, than the disarray it is now caused by Rian Johnson's The Last Jedi.
Yeah, why didn't JJ do all three? He did the TFA and then came back to do The Rise of Skywalker? Why did he leave and then come back? Makes no sense.
I personally believe it would of been just as crappy. JJ Abrams love to use that Mystery Box Formula. One of the reasons the season finale of Lost (His first big break show) was a disappointment. He had so many Plot Holes to his story and very little to back up the plot holes by the end of the show. His "Mystery Boxes" is nothing but a fancy word for plot holes. In star wars, there was no reason we should of been clueless on who the first order was who and snoke was , or who the hell Knights of Ren were. There was no reason we should of been wondering why Luke Skywalker was hiding. We had to wait 4 years to figure that out. We still don't fully understand who snoke was even after the end of the trilogy. There was way too many "Myster Boxes" in the first movie which is why fans were divided from day 1 including myself. All Ryan Johnson did was put salt on the womb.
@patrickg5898 jj was not supposed to come back. The only reason why he came back was because of the shitshow that Ryan did. It was a panic move from Lucas film/Disney
@@patrickg5898 it was planned from the start to have three different guys doing the three movies. Colin Trevorrow was supposed to do ep 9, but he did a a movie that bombed, then the Last Jedi was very divisive, so they handed ep 9 back to JJ Abrams.
JJ Abrams is a hack. All he could do is Death Star III and Clone palpatine while undermining all the efforts of the original trilogy characters to give to his OCs. He's easily the worst thing that happened to the SW franchise, I can't believe people defend him.
JJ Abrams started to change the arc after Daisy Ridley was cast and he saw the chemistry between her and Adam Driver. That’s when he started to change his mind that Kylo would develop feelings for Rey and eventually turn. Rian went with that!
It wasn’t like JJ did NOT like where Rian was taking that character’s arc, he did. He did not like what Rian with the rest of it, most especially what was done with Snoke.
If you notice, Adam never says that JJ Abrams changed TROS only that “they” changed it. That was Bob Iger. He wanted his female hero to be the “last one standing” and standing ALONE. JJ wanted Adam’s character to be the focus at the end. He knew he had GOLD in Adam Driver.
It was just a travesty to NOT have The Last Skywalker be the end of that movie, standing up like his grandfather. I don’t mind that Kylo turned back to light - it’s very Revan-like, which I like - but a much more interesting story would have been to see the ATONEMENT that would have to be made after Ben Solo’s redemption. Not a carbon copy of Vader’s own sacrifice.
I think you could be right but it would/could have been Rey falling to become his apprentice. They could have had a great story arc
Huh what chemistry? All their scenes felt awkward as hell
I still remember the hope and excitement after seeing the Force Awakens way back. All the things I wanted to see in the next movie like Jedi Finn, Phasma in a more prominent role, the Knights of Ren, Kylo learning from his mistake and being more cold and collected like Vader. Way deep down Last Jedi still stings to think about
It was a really good analogy at the end with the car
great vid
MINDWIPE: At some point, that was a really cool theory floating around and they should've used it after TFA. Rey, Finn (and maybe others) being Jedi who had just forgotten that they were Jedi would've been a cool idea to dig and it would've have explained both their skills with various Jedi tools... but also why the other characters behaved like they already knew them (Kylo, Han and Leia sure acted like they knew who Rey was)... Then Luke being the one having done the mindwipe as a way to try and protect his former students (by sending them back to their point of origin, before they became his students) would've made much more sense. It would've been easy to say that removing their memories and powers hid them from Snoke/Palpatine and that Luke, himself, had gone into hiding to try and find a solution... And his guilt could be explained by his plan going wrong: Finn gets captured by the 1st Order, Rey started getting her powers back, got found by Kylo and came back to Luke (and, why not say that the Knights of Ren were former students of Luke who got captured and corrupted by Snoke)... Also, the mindwipe didn't work on Kylo, who now hates Luke and his own parents... But, then, Rian Johnsons went "Your Star Wars theory sucks" and did something completely lame, just to prove everybody wrong.
Would've been way better. "What could've been" of episode 7 makes me sad, episode 8 makes me upset, episode 9 makes me lose hope for Disney
Adam Driver is one of my favorite contemporary actors, and it’s a shame he was given a sucky script throughout the trilogy. He did pretty well even with it. Imagine a Kylo with a fleshed out script.
Omg I got to find this video on Eisen's page to listen to it without interruption.
I think kylo being redeemed as far as coming back to the light is good because it rhymes with Anakin/Vader and how he came back to the light, but it needed to be substantiated.
Adam was the best part of the sequels and he was done so dirty. I would have loved to have seen him play proper Jason Solo. I know he would have killed it with that whole son living up to greatness while also having to be the protector of his younger siblings type of personality. And his turn to the dark side would have been so much better. Or he would have been great too as the new villain that has no relation to the OG crew.
I'm very satisfied that all this info comes out eventually. I hate how these actors were treated and I feel bad for all the cast and crew who felt strung along and wasted. I knew when I was watching these movies that they weren't real and honest. I knew and felt it in my gut. Thank you for sharing this content because I never knew this interview existed
You were right there with the Ferrari analogy. Like Ferris Bueller Episode 9 was JJ trying to get the miles to come off the car by driving it in reverse.
Now that I think of it Colin Trevorrow had Kylo stay dark till the very very very last moment .In that script his body didn't disappear meaning his redemption was more like Jacen's from legends rather than a repeat & slightly extended version on anakin's.
Actually think Kylo's redemption is classic story telling, and it's the best part of the Sequel Trilogy. Rey should have been the one to break bad.
Oh God that would have been good she comes out the mirror door double bladed dark side and Ben is outside with his father vision and fights her as Ben as the turning point fck yea...then meet up Ben manages to kill sheev but Rey gets away....
Off to next Trilogy
This is what I thought was going to happen. Rey turns out to be the big bad, and Kylo turns away from the dark side after discovering the truth (that Rey is a Palpatine). Throughout this, Fin could start learning how to be a Jedi under Luke, it was heavily implied that Fin was force sensitive and it would have been great.
+ @mcgreggers99 It was rumored that she WAS going to do so. If I recall, they trial ballooned it as a Sith or Dark Side jedi, etc.
I expected them to do a hero/villain swap in episode 8
why would Rey become bad?
Meanwhile you have Kylo Ren murdering his father and doubling down even after killing Snoke. It would have been a thousand times better if he was never redeemed and it's boring how it was just spelled out in TFA that he's Vader 2.0. Him being the big bad at the end was the only thing that would have made sense in Episode 9, instead we got "somehow Palpatine returned" because of this.
There are so many what if opportunities and branching paths of possibility we could explore on changing the story of the sequels but I think that Disney failed in trying to keep tradition while bringing about something new. If they wanted to stick with tradition, Luke should’ve been the one who caught the on starkiller base in the climax of the movie, just like Mark Hamill expected. All this would require is a much further emphasis throughout the movie of Luke being in self-imposed exile (not ideal but it’s the choice we’re going with to closely match the final product). If everyone is so certain that Luke won’t return and that hope is truly dead in the galaxy, him returning to defend Rey and stomp Kylo Ren turns the spark of hope into a bright fire. Rey is the hero of the movie and Luke is the returning hero ready to teach her to become her best self and be the new him. It rhymes with the relationship between Qui-Gon and Anakin and the relationship between Obi-Wan and Luke. This slight change would’ve improved it so much and absolved Luke of his bad ideas. It fixes both Luke and Rey since Rey isn’t powerful but has potential like Anakin and Luke. Rey should also remain a nobody since it sends a much stronger message that anyone can be a hero. Episode 8 is then about Luke training her and maybe she gets rebellious and leaves but episode 9 ends with them reuniting to take down the first order with maybe Luke sacrificing himself to save her. This is the Star Wars we could’ve gotten.
damn ...
thanks for the vid!
“Not everyone has to be good” that is so true
It’s going to be a completely pitiful year for Disney Star Wars in 2024. They’re bringing back those Book of Boba Power Ranger scooters in Skeleton Crew. The clowns at Disney really listen to the fans, don’t they. Disney forcing to sell Star Wars after non-stop failures would be the best case scenario. Skeleton Crew and The Acolyte are going to bomb big time.
Yeah i do agree that Kylo had potential to be an great sith lord but then Disney occurred
Facts
TROS occurred. By the end of TLJ, Kylo was burning all his bridges with the Light Side, but then, "somehow, Palpatine returned".
@@georgecostan3248 it was the second movie that forced jj to go with * somehow palpatine returned * if they hadn't fucked up the story in the second movie then they wouldnt have gone went with the rise of shitwalker
@@noodleaddict5215 no, it wasn't. Johnson didn't put a gun to JJ's head and force him to revive Palpatine, instead of being original for once. Colin Trevorrow's script is proof of that. It just goes to show that JJ didn't have a plan for Kylo at any time, except for maybe doing what Johnson did, but in the last movie, instead of TLJ.
@@georgecostan3248 well ok not force but jj had no other choice but to stick with the palpatine shit so that it would connect with the second movies story
keep making great content. I'd like to see 8 hours of what was wrong with the last jedi and what they could have dome better
It’s already out, it’s by a channel called Hackfraudmedia. It’s an homage to the prequel trilogy reviews by Mr. Plinkett, it’s the very best of the fan reviews of TLJ.
Imagine applying for a job and they don't supply you with a job description and responsibilities. "you can have the job, but we're not telling you what you have to do until you sign the contract."
How can you have the grandson of the powerful Force being ever in three movies and not have him be the main character
Because he is a guy, and the force is female, duuuh.
😖😖 spare me
@@isaacchillman11Honestly, isnt it sad that BS explanaitions like mine are probably ACTUALLY one of the reasons Disney is giving us crap like the prequels?
Kinda makes you loose faith in human civilisation....
@@random.3665 he is a fictional character, you realize that...why not make him a granddaughter then, by your logic
@@nocturnal03.....dude, i think that there is about a metric ton of sarcasm in my comment that went waaay over your head. Which is supprising, given that my second comment literally calls out the BS....
😂😂😂😂 Vader 2.5. Listening to Driver, it seems there wasn't a real plan for the films. The way you described Vader’s conflict with the light and dark side is a great character arc. Kylo seems thrown together without a plan. The last films were a cash cow, and I think the lack of closure pisses me off. It saddens me because we may never get closure.
When he said Vader .25 I thought he was calling him less than the original
@@skyblu81That's why I laughed
We already got closure, it's called Return Of The Jedi. That's the real ending to the saga.
@@Mcfly85A 😂😂😂 you might be right
To me making a sequel to Return Of The Jedi is like making a sequel to Back To The Future Part Three. You could do it but it's not necessary.
As a huge sports fan I never thought I would see clips of the Rich Eisen Show on your channel haha. Eisen has his usual Hollywood connects and of course promotional power to get these types of guests on. I’m guessing he will have Daisy on when ever the next Stars Movie is coming out
I would watch an 8-hour-long video on the Last Jedi instantly
Just think of yourself as Disney’s version of Revan, Mr. Driver.
That might make you feel better.
When was he said tho lmao
It would have been good to have had the love story with Rey and Kylo in the second movie and make you think maybe she's going to bring him to the light side, and then in the last movie it goes the other way and they end up both on the dark side. It would have set up a longer running saga which was Disney's ultimate goal. For many decades stars etc have pointed out in interviews etc that the execs at the top are not creative people and good things have been made despite their interference
Or she drifts to the dark side because she falls in love with him and it’s her that’s redeemed, with Finn as the Luke Skywalker / light side padawan archetype.
Theory. Make that 8hour cut please. That would make a great podcast and I could listen to it at work all night.
Mr Driver despite all the obstacles we are glad you are in the Star Wars family Thanks for taking part of Kylo Ren much appreciated grateful happy new year all 😊
The best way to move Star Wars forward is if Luke had a son in secret with Mara Jade.
She didn’t want the kid to go through what the Skywalkers went through so she fled and hid the child.
It’s so simple.
While that does sound amazing, imagine for a second how that plotline would be handled by todays writers, who bring (american)politics into everything, and how much father-mother conflict that story would contain. It would be shitshow, even when your initial premise has so much great potential....
It would have been better.
Could also give R2 a quest to find them.
@@random.3665 exactly
Luke and Mara did have a son, and to me that is what happened, Mara and their son fled when the first order was on the rise so they could train in secret far away from the first order and Luke remained behind to fight the first order.
I love the Rich Eisen show!!
Rich is great!
Dude you are jacked. I wasn’t expecting that lol. Props fellow “testostegeek”.
Youre spot on in a lot of youre points here. Especially in how the sequel series should have been handled.
I'm with SWT, I would have turned Rey to the Dark Side. The hints were there from. The start. When she's strapped to the interrogation chair and mind tricks 007 you hear the force rumble that is only heard for dark side users. Then her demeanor switch when fighting Kylo in the snow. She didn't look mad, she looked evil, just like Anakin when he killed the sand people. This is what I was hoping from the beginning. Maybe at the end you turn both Ben and Rey back to the light side, aiding Luke to destroy the Emperor
ME TOO BRO. I WANTED THAT SO GOFLD DAMN BAD
This is amazing Star Wars content.
Btw the Long Man is the best at what he does. Glad u guys did some vids together
Theory, you do kind of skip over the part where he said that it started with Ryan, but it still held up and stay consistent, but it really went off the rails character wise with TROS
Man just hearing Adam speak about all this stuff just makes me miss the idea of what could have been. Shame that what we got was so disgusting...
Jacen Solo > Kylo Ren
I honestly think it should have gone something like this... Kylo ren is confuse at the begining then in the second film keep it ambigious like he's on the grey side and then in the next film something happens that sends him over the top... Full blown darkside. And the thing that sends him deep in the dark side should be something that we as the audience can relate to, something so big and heart breaking that it makes Rey fall to the darkside too and join Kylo. After this three next films to continue the saga. In the three next film the chosen one himself, Anakin Skywalker in force ghost form would play a big role in getting both Kylo and Rey back to right side which is to be on the side of the force... Being balanced in it
The end.
Massive facts, especially about Iden Versio and how not all characters have to be good 😁
Rian came to Lucasfilm looking to do his own Star Wars project, unrelated to whatever was happening in The Force Awakens.
They granted his request.
Makes me wish we had gotten JJ’s vision for the entire trilogy. Yeah it may have been a bad in spots because it’s JJ, but I would have been consistent. And to get a story where Kyle becomes more evil and stays evil sounds cool
This is my favorite channel for getting Star Wars news.
Driver always struck me as the most professional-minded 9certainly in his choreography) of the people in disney-wars.
For him to be speaking out on in and of itself tells volumes.
The supposed Episode 8 was garbage, but the supposed episode 7 was trash too.
* I say "supposed" cause they're not part of Star Wars to me, as simple as that.
Adam Driver is a great actor, but Kylo Ren was a horrible Star Wars villain, and way more suited for the Twilight Saga than Star Wars, from almost the beginning ... would say than from the first moment he removed his helmet. And him losing the first battle against that character I don't even want to mention, was just pathetic.
They should have had Rey and Finn find Luke at the beginning of TLJ. Luke trains Rey. He senses Finn has Force powers, but doesn’t mention it. He’s also concerned about Rey being too close to the Dark. Then Rey turns to the Dark and joins Kylo at the end of the movie. In the last movie, after a time jump, we find Finn has been training with Luke. Luke confronts Kylo and Rey, but is killed. Finn is left to fight and now has to face Rey and tries to turn her back. He does with Force Luke’s help, but Finn is badly wounded by Kylo. So Rey fights Kylo again and tries to turn Kylo, but he doesn’t and she ends up having to kill him.
12:00 your brief random description sounds SO FUCKING AWESOME compared to what we actually got.😢
The Ferrari analogy sent me. 😂
And I agree with you about Adam. That guy is great. If they are gonna try to fix this awful trilogy of sequels they need to bring him back. Somehow 💯
If Rian had done all 3 it also would've been better than splitting it up. No matter who did it, a coherent thread through all 3 movies was 100% needed.
If JJ did all three it would’ve been better.
The last Jedi was absolutely crap
- Rey could have be the new Sith apprentice
- Finn could have been the black version of Kyle Katarn (or how you described him, more like Revan in Kotor 1, a former Jedi turned Stormtrooper by First Order, then redeemed as a Jedi again after he remembered things, memories of his old identity)
- Kylo Ren: to be completely honest: Adam Driver is a really good actor, but no entirely scratch Kylo out of the entire trilogy, dump this character for good
- Luke: exactly how he would have been in J.J. Abrams version of the trilogy (I'd also like to see what he would have come up with, if he had full control over all three movies)
- Rian Johnson: Give him his original Star Wars movie to fuck up, a spin-off with zero consequence of damaging the entire brand
- Scratch out Palpy-boy, i mean yes the Senate is a well-known villain from Star Wars, but seriously this guy exploded and then the entire Death Star exploded all around him. Call me uncreative with my thoughts, but i strongly believe there is no way he could actually have realistically survived that. And just throwing in the meme "The dark side is a pathway to many abilities some may consider to be unnatural" as an explanation for him to be there - No. Just no.
- I mean is Star Wars a joke to these guys or is it a well-known science fiction movie based franchise? What do they think this is, Kindergarten? Even 10 year olds would come up with better stories, playing with their Star Wars Legos than the sequel trilogy is.
I've stood in on Marvel projects which of course are owned by Disney. They give you the portion of the script that you need for only what you're involved with and you have to return it at the end of the day to keep everything completely under wraps.
When I stood in on Gotham with DC they just let me go to a website and read full scripts 2-3 episodes ahead as downloadable PDFs. Vast difference in their formats.
What’s their plan now? Make a Rey movie and hope that somehow fixes things and restores interest in Star Wars?
Theory! Let the interview run!
"It's like poetry. It rhymes." 😂
Adam driver in the movie Marriage Story solidified him as an S Tier actor for me
I too couldn't believe what I was playing when that Iden 'snap' happened. I was genuinely asking myself 'who green-lit this shite?' and 'who actually thought this was a good idea?'
That’s exactly what I’ve been saying about this trilogy for a long time. The worst thing about it is the lack of consistency. I mean, they could’ve just made 9 consistent with 8 and then at least it would be something linear.
There was once an article how actors were going into the room where other actors were sitting and were handed over the printouts in red ink over black paper which they had to give back when leaving the room.
Make that 8 hour video!