TALES FROM TOPOGRAPHIC OCEANS by YES | My Opinion
Vložit
- čas přidán 20. 08. 2024
- Become a Patreon! / andyedwards
Andy is a drummer, producer and educator. He has toured the world with rock legend Robert Plant and played on classic prog albums by Frost and IQ.
As a drum clinician he has played with Terry Bozzio, Kenny Aronoff, Thomas Lang, Marco Minneman and Mike Portnoy.
He also teaches drums privately and at Kidderminster College
I’m currently on tour with Jon as a member of the Band Geeks, and getting to play Ritual with the man himself is spine-tingling. What a piece of music top to bottom, love the channel, from one Andy to another!
Fantastic! I was moved to tears by your CZcams of Heart Of The Sunrise a few years ago. I've watched a couple videos of the latest tour and I love it! So much enthusiasm and energy (aside from the musical skill).
Y'all come to Texas, ya' hear?
Side III Or Track III:
THE ANCIENT
GIANTS UNDER THE SUN
Would Be Bloody Mind Blowing...
I've been watching some of the CZcams vids from the tour and MAN you guys sound amazing!! Really hope you get to do some UK gigs with Jon - I'll certainly be there if you do! I filmed my own version of the Ritual drum solo a few years ago which was great fun to do. Alan White has always been a big inspiration so that was definitely a spine tingling experience for me too czcams.com/video/mf535u78h3o/video.html
I've watched some of your shows with Jon, great work all round. It's a shame you're not coming to London.
I have been watching every video I can find! You guy's are nailing it!
My favorite Yes album. I'm 63 this year. This music has been with me most of my life. Even when I went through my punk/new wave/indie/grunge phases, I always had a copy of it in some form or another. However, I can almost say the same for Relayer. Just that Relayer is not longer. I find it more "free style" and wilder. There will never be another Yes.. .
a critic who prefers punk over Tales can never be mistaken as an arbitor of taste.
Took a few decades, but Tales grew on me. I love it now.
...I have had my share of albums that took me decades to appreciate.
:-)
Without progressive rock , I wouldn't have known Bartok, Stravinsky , Ginastera or modern jazz ..
Me too!
Great post.
Exactly. Me too. I would add Messiaen because Henry Cow.
Jon Anderson has written - and sung - some lovely melodies, but I think 'Nous sommes du soleil' is the best of them all.
Probably my favourite lyrics of his, come to that.
I love to watch the Yes Symphonic version of 'Ritual' on You Tube. Amazing, just wish I could have seen it live.
No album has challenged me as much as this one. My opinion has changed over the years from bloated pretension to sublime masterwork and all shades between. As years went buy, I’ve firmly arrived at believing it to be ‘sublime masterwork’ and it now may be my favourite Yes album.
Welcome to Tales.....
It was the first Yes album I ever heard and owned at age 14, and my first non ELP album alongside Wakeman's 6 wives. From Jon Anderson's opening vocals to the end of Ritual I was totally enthralled and entranced by it - maybe my love of it is because I hadnt yet heard Close to the Edge, Fragile and The Yes Album so had no real ready made expectation of what I would have wanted it to sound like. It has always been and will remain one of my all time favourite albums and even though I've listened to it a squillion times I still go back to it every now and again and still enjoy every minute of it.
Thanks for this video and your perspectives ... I'm 63 now, I met Jon when I was 21. I got to hang out in studio while he was doing a 'guest DJ' segment on a local radio station ... at one point I had handed him my copy of 'Olias' to sign, and he asked me what my favorite Yes album was, and without a femto-second's hesitation I spilled out, 'Topo.', and he said the whole title back to me, "Tales From Topographic Oceans" ... not like correcting me, but just saying it aloud to himself I think, and looked at my eyes intensely, and big smiling said, "Really", in soft little gentle air voice ... I just love how big Topo is, how dynamic & spacious it is ...I love all the early Yes so much, but Topo is as wonderful to me as Close To The Edge, and it's twice the size! Thanks again, Andy
Despite not being a huge YES fan, I listened to all of :"Tales" today.
Certainly prolix, and , for me, only okay. Yes never rocked enough for me ( although they did alright on "Roundabout"), so I always preferred King Crimson, who not only rocked, but could be terrifying at times. Even ELP, with all their classical touches, and piano, rocked harder. Yes never admitted enough darkness or sinister qualities for me.
"Tales" is not bad, certainly, and there is some wonderful playing and singing there,writing as well, but it just doesn't come together for me.
I read a critic years ago whose name escapes me who said that whereas Yes, through its music, marvels at the wonder and beauty of the world, King Crimson prefers to reach up and grab the world by the balls.
It takes a few listens
You can't expect something of this length, scope, and complexity to "come together" for you without repeated attentive listenings. The rewards for doing this, however, are unparalleled.
Check out their song 'Machine Messiah'
It was the spirit of the times, the hope for a big change that made this album a sensation.
The greatest thing Mankind has ever produced!!!
More so than LTiA?
AMEN, SCOTT
I’d argue pizza is the greatest human invention, Topographic Tales a close second. And both pair nicely with a good cigar and whiskey.
I agree with you !!!!
God Bless You, Andy Edwards, for keeping this music alive !
I'm 60 yo, I have long been a Yes fan and probably got into TFTO when I was around 15 yo. Of all of Yes output this is the go-to for me. The album I listen to the most of perhaps ALL the music I have (ok that's difficult to know). To me if you're truly a fan of Yes and appreciate songs that came before Tales...eg Siberian Khatru, Close to the Edge, etc then Tales is the logical next step. You listened to (and loved) Fragile and Close to the Edge and your reward was Tales From Topographic Oceans and Relayer. That's just a Law of Yes Physics !!
Andy, I have the Steven Wilson Box Set of Remix's from 2018 that have stayed true to the original sound. I bought "Tales" when it first came out in 1973. Loved it then, still love it now. And if I may Andy, as a side note: you are so right when you say in an earlier, video feed, that Frank Zappa's 1966 Album "Freak Out" was the start of Progressive Rock. Not many musicologists attribute, this fact to Zappa as you so rightly have. As a 68 year old Australian music lover and teacher of History, your music feeds and their discussions are so spot-on and informative. Again you are so right, regarding ones stereo set-up, and all it entails to gain the best sound stage experience. Its as important as the music itself. Stay safe and go well.
I read a quote about Yes when Squire left us. It said Yes music requires a keen mind and powerful imagination to create….and perhaps the same to enjoy. I received Tales for Xmas on CD when I was in high school. To say it was a game changer on a personal level would be an understatement. Can’t put that album into words. I remember leaving CD1 in my mom’s car and she asked me what the hell that music was. At that exact moment the whole concept of Yes changed for me. Such a special, special band.
i love tales. it's my favorite yes album. i love lamb too! 45 yrs listening to both. and i love them as much as ever!
Tales is everything that is wrong with Progressive Rock, and I love it. It's indulgent, it's over the top, its musicians showing off, it meanders somewhat. I was 16 years old when I bought this album, and it is still my favorite.
I loved it then, and I love it now! The lyrics might be hard to follow, but they sound so good with the music. The memory definitely lingers on.
Topographic and Close to the Edge are my faves, then the rest (Yessongs, Yesshows, studios) up to Tormato which I love.
Huge Yes fan back in the day but was never crazy about this one. After watching this video, must give it another listen.
Great job as always. It's the Yes album that I would bring to my desert island because there is always something new to be heard. Like a great novel, I cherish returning to it provided I don't overplay it. You also have a great skill at accurately explaining the prejudices and elitism that consumed the musical press in the 1970's. To my mind, this instinct towards a heavy-handed, unilateral and repeated orthodoxy foreshadowed much of the narrative we are fed as news, in all forms, today.
I've always loved it and was lucky to see them tour it with Wakeman and hear some of it again later with patrick Moraz on the Relayer tour.
According to the auto-generated subtitles, "Tales" was #2 on your list of 10 greatest double Prague albums 8-P
OMG when Andy said 'Hey Google Play progressive rock" in his dialog My little google speaker started playing McCartney singing Harrison's All things Must Pass
One of my fave Yes albums!
I have tried in vain to like Yes. But I have recently found Jon and the Band Of Geeks and I have finally been able to enjoy Jon’s voice. It has matured and his tone has mellowed. But I also found him performing with the great Jean Luc Ponty and I just loved those performances.
Great video Andy!
Yes is a harmony band, and Jon tends to have a certain voice style for this band. My favorite Jon vocal is Prince Rupert.
Nothing wrong with the concept, only the execution to some degree. Should have been recorded with the sound and energy with which Relayer was made. In some ways it predicts future musics. The "padding" that Wakeman complained about is just early ambient music. There is stuff like that on CZcams today goes on for 12 hours (!). Part one of side three would have made for a great treatment by someone like Jon Hassell, with modified trumpet replacing the steel guitar. Find a live version where they play all four sides-quite ballsy in comparison to the studio recording. Jon Anderson's best lyrics dealt in metaphor, and when he deals in "reality", he has been very maudlin. Finally, Tales is a work of its time, as is most of Prog. Couldn't be done today...
I think when you say "Should have been recorded with the sound and energy with which Relayer was made." that that is like saying that Pink Floyd should have recorded "Us & Them" with the same energy as "The Nile Song". I don't understand art criticism, I suppose.
Tales is my second fave album by Yes after Going For The One, can't get enough of it.
Never heard of this album before now.
Used to listen to Close to the Edge on cassette in or reclining on the bonnet of a Ford Falcon back in 73-74 in AUS.
Good times.
.
.
.
(Robert Fripp's album "The League of Gentlemen" is an interesting story too,
punk-ish but still prog IMO)
Andy - This is the first Yes album I really dove into at 14. My friend’s older brother let me borrow it. Early on i really didn’t pay attention to the lyrics or the concept. i was so enamored by the music and the album art. I remember liking the first 2 cuts more than the last two. Over the years i’ve come to appreciate the variety across all four sides. i enjoyed this video as I do most of your stuff. totally agree with your Chris Squire solo album comment.
Tales is such a journey for me. Definitely my favourite Yes album and one of my all-time favourites in general.
Hello from Montreal, I love your take on progressive rock. I’m a big Rush fan and have been brain washed since 1980 with Permanent Waves. I’d like to bring up their very last album Clockwork Angels. I think this album exemplifies what a progressive music should be and Is. It’s a story of a boy in a steam punk world who goes on a life journey to find himself. Neil Peart actually joined up with the science fiction writer Kevin j Anderson on a collection of books. Anyways the album is very powerful and very much old school Rush. On the tour there was a string quartet which was fun. Rush never went away after moving pictures , they were always hard working delivering quality themed albums. Earl the best from across the pond.
I bought this album in 1974, listened to it once, and then didn't listen to again for twenty-five years. I don't see it as great, but when it played a few days ago, I found myself singing along to it. Only took forty-nine years. To me, nothing compared to CTTE or Relayer, which were coherent.
I thought I was the only one who did this.
I bought "Not Fragile" by Bachman Turner Overdrive, and listened to side one, but not side two. I think I sold it about fifteen years later, never having listened to side two!
Then I bought "Sailing the Seas of Cheese" by Primus, and listened to it. I "didn't get" Primus, so I didn't listen to it again until about six or seven years later, then I loved it, and became a huge Primus fan.
@@herculesrockefeller8969 I hear what you're saying. I did the same with Olias, but now it's one of my favorites.
Slowpoke. It took me only 30 years to come round to Tales.
@@JohnnyRecently I listen to all types of music. Forgive me for Listening to Mahler, Bartok, Sibelius, and. Schoenberg, an I will tell you that I read Autobiography of a Yogi, trying figure this album out.
As a drummer, what do you think the influence of the change of drummer has on the album?
I've always wondered how it would have developed if Bill was still in the band as his style is so different and he brought a lot of rhythmic patterns to their other albums that are very interesting; I'm thinking specifically of Fragile.
It might have been less interesting or more so? We will never know.
To appreciate YES music, you have to listen to it. A lot. I listen to TFTO at least two times every week. It is incredibly beautiful and inspiring music.............................
My fav album since 1973. Case closed.
Taken me nearly 50 years to get into it, by God it was worth it!
We have Jamie Muir to thank for putting the germ of an idea into Jon Anderson's head for this album. If he had only not loaned that book to Jon Anderson at Bill Bruford's wedding. I have never liked this album very much, but the story of how it was made and the circumstances surrounding its making are interesting. For me the best track was "Ritual", but in recent years I have grown to like "The Ancient" best. I love the atonal guitar of Steve Howe and Chris Squire's funky bass sound. The fact that the album was written by Steve Howe and Jon Anderson is revealed in the way the songs are constructed. A lot of long, meandering passages with soloing done to excess, especially on tracks 3 and 4. Very few keyboard moments worth remembering, which plays into the whole narrative that Rick Wakeman was not too keen on the making of this album.
Rick Wakeman famously 'hates' this album. But, I have seen an interview where he says that basically what he hates is the absence of CD recording technology at the time ( of course, they didn't even know that then ).
As he explains, when it was first written, the four 'movements were of differing lengths, one about 9 mins, one 11, one 15 etc. There was too much to fit, in any manner, onto the 38-40 mins of a single 12" vinyl, split into two. So, they added unnecessary 'padding' to the movements, to bring them up to close to 18-19mins each for a double album fit. It is this 'padding' that he finds so annoying, because it has no real place there, & contributes nothing. Like a curate's egg, it is good in parts.
With CD technology, they could have just recorded the original four movements as originally written.
czcams.com/video/SMONaUyw1dg/video.html
A very insightful look into Tales from Topographic Oceans, this album and ELP were/are indeed used as a reason to deride prog rock by the music press of whom the less said the better.
Certainly with Jon Anderson, his absolute joy comes streaming through. I highly recommend taking some MDMA and chasing it with a couple of hits of good blotter and this album will really make sense.
no it won't
Despite loving Yes since I listened to “Wondrous Stories” on “dial a disc” in 1977 aged 9 and buying up many of their albums on used vinyl in the 80’s, I always actively avoided TFTO (despite loving the cover art) and this was purely because of the albums bad reputation/stigma that was put on turbo during the punk era. I bought it recently and actually quite like it: yes, its a bit drawn out in places, but I can live with that. Having said that, I also love (some) punk as well and for instance, in ‘77 you’d have Yes and ELP in the charts alongside the Sex Pistols, Stranglers, Donna Summer and Boney M. Strange bedfellows, indeed!
BTW, very good point about home Hi Fi coming of age in the early-mid 70’s and it being the most powerful/high resolution domestic medium at that time, in terms of the technology available back then, those with ‘working’ Quadraphonic setups were at the cutting edge, flawed medium though it was and came of age later with Dobly (sic) surround and Star Wars, etc. Anyway, back to ‘73….
My desert island disc, the greatest album ever made. Many people don't get it, shame for them really. Especially wonderful in surround sound, on another scale to anything else, only classical music comes anywhere near close to this wonderful, amazing piece of class.
Which pieces of classical music does it remind you of?
Topographic Oceans is a piece of its own. I didn't say it reminded me of any particular piece of music, slightly misunderstanding there.
It's scale I'm referring too.
If I was to name something classical I might listen to after playing this album then anything by Malcolm Arnold, Arnold Bax or Ralph Vaughan Williams but especially Vaughan Williams Sea Symphony. Then you have Aaron Copland's Symphony No 3. Anything by Weinberg, Shostakovich and Mahler, plus Bartok's The Miraculous Mandarin.
There are a great number of classical pieces I could include depends on my mood, Stravinsky Firebird and Rite of Spring also come to mind.
There's nothing like Topographic Oceans though, that to me, is the greatest album ever made and in surround sound it truly is one hell of an experience.
Just heard and deeply appreciated your group discussion of Tales by YES. I left this detailed impression in the comments! I saw & cried Tripping through this full album TOUR and had deeply anticipated the album's release which I only listened to in its entirety for decades. I'm so TIRED of the WAKEMANIZED drenched delusional criticisms of this MASTERPIECE! And ironically Rick did some EXQUISITE work throughout the ENTIRE album! To me the Neysaying says more about the psycho-epistemology of Critics more than anything else. The WHOLY TRILOGY of YES are CTTE, TALES & RELAYER. In their own unique way EACH can still send me right to the Edge of and then over into PURE BLISS into a SEA of TEARS! I am so SAD for those who don't get it so, like the group commentary by "Sea of Tranquility" which I dismissed most of their commentary as unworthy of my time! Conceptually TALES, it is brilliant & so SOPHISTICATED, in terms of writing, performance and arrangement. The LYRICS again are wonderfully poetic & METAPHORICALLY attuned perfectly with the complexity and abstract Nature of their Music. Each side does EXACTLY what it's particular theme was intended to express through an incredible layering of VISCERALLY visualized moods, textures sounds and atmospheres > 1. Manifesting from within the Oceans RSOG*** is about the awakening of LIFE and the becoming aware of the beauty of it's ever evolving Creations around us and through our own ever -awakening evolutionary progress we are naturally obligated to love the world and protect our environment every moment moment moment of our cherished existence > 2. Initiated with an innocent melodic lullaby, The REMEMBERING*** ebbs & flows as if upon the waves of dreamlike nostalgia. Slowing it gradually SWELLS as if set adrift on the SEA of MEMORIES eventually rising up & towards a torrent of intense GRATITUDE. This one takes me to a similar bliss as AWAKEN! It saddens me that many don't have the patience to hear the subtle overlapping currents deep within the structure of this GEM! > 3. Then suddenly we're ABRUPTLY thrown further back into our deeper & mysteriously mystical Ancestral past via one of their MOST adventurously FUNKY and transcendent epics EVER! THE ANCIENT*** is truly YES at their most PRIMAL & TRIBAL. I always feel as if thrown back within the unknown roots of my DNA where again NATURE is GOD, directly present & revealed via the power of the SUN resulting in the life giving Force of green leaves & tranquility! > 4. RITUAL*** hits with an intense jolt of finality! and we're reintroduced melodically to the recent journeys that help us to arrive at a place of CELEBRATION & joy for having come full circle after an exhilarating transcendent CEREMONY honoring EXISTENCE ITself! TALES is a PERFECT MASTERPIECE that was EDITED DOWN to it's quintessential elements (NO meandering, NO FILLER nor Arbitrary noodling, NO DOUBT!
Well done Andy !
Appreciate all you do.
Opinions. Everyone has one.
I was a Yes fanboy. I still am. I will always be. Probably be buried in one of my Yes t’s.
I was 15 when Tales came out. It was my first real time Yes release. Until then I had been playing catch up with the prior releases(he says, deceptively meekly).
Tales was…puzzling.
I saw them @ MSG in Feb. ‘74. Nosebleeds. It was an odd show, even for this neophyte. It was my 2nd concert of contemporary music. Arlo Guthrie was my first. (He was okay.)
But, I never stopped listening to it, never gave up on it.
I’ve always loved music. All kinds.
I don’t go onto VDGG sites or comment areas and rag on Peter Hamill’s voice, or the band.
One of my favorite things about music is how, with repeated listenings, with applied attention, one can go from detesting some types of music and individual pieces of music to loving it. Some of my very favorite music I initially detested.
Such is Tales. No music I have ever encountered rewards close scrutiny and repeated attention than Tales. During some of the worst periods of my life Tales has been there to bring me back, to ground me. Save my life!
I love it, greatly. Adore it.
Great job, Andy. As always. Apologies for length of response, as well as some of the negativity hereabouts. Lots of misdirected anger in this world. Think I’ll go listen to Tales, again soon. For the 734,268th time. Might find something new in there. Again!
Thanks for the video, Andy. I recommend raelNYC's video about the creation of Tales. It spells out a lot of the contextual background in detail. And yeah, Close to the Edge was definitely the original progenitor and deserves its status as the greatest progressive rock album of all time. Jon based the title track on "Siddartha", which can easily be seen as an intellectual stepping stone to something like Tales, so in that regard Tales is simply taking the ideas set out on CTTE, and blows them out to 4 album sides. But that shouldn't take anything away from Tales' power and gob-smacking glory.
However, I'm still going to disagree with your ranking, Andy, simply because IMO side 4 of The Lamb is pretty weak. Much weaker than anything on Tales. And if you compare the amount of fluff on The Lamb to the amount of fluff on Tales, there's less of it on Tales, plus at least the fluff on Tales is Grade A Prime Quality Fluff! 😆
The displacement of prog by punk presaged a change in English culture.
We went from the bucolic Genesis and the mystic Yes to "I wanna be an anarchist, get pissed destroy."
Today Jon Anderson still uses his music to promote his message of peace, love and environmentalism.
Meanwhile Rotten parades in the tweeds of the landed gentry. Rotten may think his clothing choices are "ironic." But its uncreative, demonstrating that for all his rebellion, all he could do in the end was mimic the upper class that his working class soul felt rejected him.
It reminds me of an interview with a tory MP that Jagger did in the 1960's following which the MP said he was struck by how far Jaggers anti-establishment libertarianism reflected Tory principles.
Some people build things up. Other people knock them down.
Its certainly a Rotten world we are living in.
I agree with your assessment that it is the maximum expression of progressive rock, a true marvel, a journey to cosmic connection. Your vision of small TVs and the emergence of HiFi is very accurate. Punk appears because mediocrity always triumphs. It's easier not to think. Society became more simplistic and music sharpened this topic. No one can take away the emotion I feel every time I listen to this album.I love The Lamb also, but this is other thing, this is emotional, cosmic, glorious
Great video Andy, will have to have a listen to that tray
Revealing Science of God is my favorite track.
This is my favorite album of YES! 😊❤
Me, too!
Greatest of All Time!
Very well explained. As eith Genesis, when a babd reaches a peak, where do they go from there? They will always want to reach higher, extend themselves more otherwise they will stagnate as an artist. The trouble is, fans just do not understand that and will constantly want more of the same and box the artist in, hence when they try to push themselves further, fand will akways be resistant to it.
I was around studentsville back in 1976-78 and diehard proggie types couldn't get this off their turntables/cassette players even as the punk/new wave storm was brewing overhead......
this Yes magnum opus was an easy target for the 2 minute short haired legions back in the day BUT I must admit I have always enjoyed it myself !
I didn't discover Yes until late 1976, when I asked to borrow CTTE based simply on the greenness of the cover. Up until then I knew chart music, some classical music and Stan Getz, whom my father loved.
CTTE changed my life: I had no idea there was music like that. I bought GFTO with carefully-saved pennies when it came out, and then asked my parents to buy me TFTO for Christmas 77. Bored me rigid, and I didn't listen to it again for around 30 years. But on listening to it again in my late forties I spotted what I'd missed when I was a teen.
Both it and TLLDOB suffered because there was nothing between a single album and a double album, so padding was necessary.
TYFTWARIOWKWAYWTA. 🙂
When you talk about how an album was appreciated (or not) on a cultural level you never seem to acknowledge the increased exploration with recreational drugs during the late 60's and throughout the 70's. Yes, and most of the progressive rock bands were very "trippy" and closely associated with drug use - from presentation to appreciation. To ignore the influence of drugs leaves out an important dimension in the understanding of many albums and artists. In the case of Topographic Oceans, having four, long, intricate songs fit right into an afternoon or evening of inner exploration with LSD, mushrooms, etc.
Your thoughts are some of the most interesting, and most cogent and of all the music commenters on CZcams.
That possibly warrants a seperate video. I agree, I haven't discussed that aspect that much
That's probably the most important thing to get about this era of rock music once you know (for my buck anyway). From The Beatles to the Stones to The Doors to Hendrix to the Prog titans, to the fusion guys, to the Jam band stuff like the Dead, the trip was akin to putting on the 3/D glasses and the music became more visceral- as if you could reach out and touch it and it was designed to be that way- it was done on purpose to enhance the experience. It also inspired/motivated, informed (I don't know what the exact correct context to put this in is) the musicians wittingly or un, to do stuff that's stood up very well over time.
@@AndyEdwardsDrummerI dunno about drugs but is it true that Rick Wakeman was sacked from Yes for ordering and eating a takeaway curry during a performance of one of the more sprawling passages on TfTO? I do hope it's true as I have always thought it suits the sense of humour of the great caped ivory/plastic tinkler. The flavour and strength of the curry has never been specified but maybe some of our more autistic prog fans can enlighten us.
I think there are good reasons music commentators are reluctant to bring this out in the open; for one thing, it's just hard to talk about without sounding a bit silly, although you're right, Andy's got a deft touch. But yes, even now, after my mental cracks have become crevasses and I can't really take hard psychedelics any longer (living in a legal state, I can however just go to the soft psychedelics store down the road), I still have the old habit of thought, with my own bedroom studio efforts or any music that I listen to: What would this sound like while tripping? With music and acid, I'm like Jon Stewart in Half-Baked, "Have you ever looked at a dollar bill...on weed?" Music and drugs....yeah, that's the ticket.
@@davidbennett2339 really good post and agree that it's incredibly difficult to take on the subject without it coming off poorly for one reason or another. The title and question Are You Experienced? really does cut to the chase. One either knows this or they don't and can't really be persuaded or informed, especially if it's reduced to tropes.
I'm going to polarize so you don't have to. This, not being theeir best album, but easily makes any top ten Yes albums, is far better than all the discography of Dream Theater, all the discography of Porcupine Tree, and all the discography of Tool. Their thing was to progress, to climb higher, and this is certainly the case in relation to Close to the Edge, althou not surpassing it as an album of music. Still, the first track is a long form masterpiece and 2, 3 and 4 are very strong and artistic accomplishments. And of course, the title, the cover.... All top notch. And I remember when it came out, how exciting it was. And there was not the slightest idea that in two years the musical landscape would radically change.... because, these where extavaganzas but also hugely successfull records.
It's not better than any of those bands cited- at all.
They did release Total Mass Retain as a single with America on the b-side. Needless to say it didn't sell as well as the album.
I was 16 in 1972, when I first heard Close to the Edge, it blew my mind, and I was hooked. When Tales came out I bought it the first day, and at first I was not crazy about, because it was so much to digest. This is not LP that you can give one listen too, and say yeah I get it, I spend a lot of listening before I got it. I do love tails, I think Close to the Edge is a little better, but that is me. And way better than “A Lamb Lies down” for me Genesis peaked at Selling England By the Pound, their best LP every.
Wow! You're opening nailed it for me... I turn 65 in June and when I was a kid I would lay on the floor with headphones listening to Close to the Edge (in absolute Heaven) whilst my parents were (in another world) watching Lawrence Welk on the TV. I remember it well. And also... seeing the Beatles on that same 12" B&W screen.
I Didn't Like The Record At First...I Felt It Was Far Too Different Than Close To The Edge...But I Eventually Warmed Up To It...
Once again, for me at least, as objective a take as I’ve heard on the album. I really like Yes and have done for years but no matter what era of my development as either a musician or just wider being, that I’ve listened to this…… it’s never blown me away. But it’s inarguably a great accomplishment regardless of what criticism you’d care to levy against it…. In my opinion.
Shows how people's taste in music differ. I have literally listened to Tales From Topographic Oceans hundreds of times and "The Ancient" is by far my least favorite of the four sides. I know the album so well that when I saw Jon perform solo about 15 years ago or so he was playing and singing just the closing section of "Ritual" and forgot the words. I shouted out the correct lyrics, got a nod of appreciation from him and an ovation from the crowd. Easily one of the most memorable moments of my life, supplying the lyrics of a song that my personal rock god had written himself.
I love The Lamb, but Topographic is the greatest album of all time.
Nice Andy. This album is a difficult listen for me, as is Relayer. It' s been ages I listened to Relayer, but Tales Ido listen to. But then only the first two tracks. The rest I don't like at all. I appreciate what they did and it's remarkable indeed. But I just don't like the second half of the album.
Well... I will give a try again one of these days. 👍
I had not listened to RELAYER for years...until Covid. 4-5 times. A lot more Jazz Fusion-y than I remembered. There are sections where I woulda thought it was RTF or The MO.
TALES? I need to give it another go...hopefully, without a pandemic.
:-)
Curiously, Squire's playing on that album s the most perfunctory as anything he's ever done. It seems that by focusing on creating such long convoluted songs that the parts were not as creative as they were in the past -- or on Relayer and Going For The One. TFTO has been compared the Passion Play, which also has great moments but it too disjointed and lacking cohesiveness, though in Topographic Ocean's case I think it's simply a matter of too many sections stretched out for far too long. (And too much indulgent noise on side three). I think the best of the album can be contained and still be more shorter. In fact, it makes a nice tight 40 minute single album -- as evidenced here. czcams.com/video/lQTMB3OcpMw/video.html
Yes
a great double album!
~~ at the time - it may have seemed to some as an ill-advised follow-up to the classic 'Close to the Edge' - but it has aged fairly well - still it's a bit amusing that the record annoyed Rick Wakeman so much that he spoke out against it - which certainly did not help the record to be accepted by a wider audience ..
I kind of agree.. thanks for the rant!
By the way, how do you rate jazz-funk-rockers Zebra?? I think their album Panic from -75 is a good listen
I’m not a fan of prog, you might even call me somewhat hostile, to the genre. Nonetheless, I thoroughly enjoy your channel (I do have soft spot for the more ‘difficult’ styles of jazz).
Yes.. pinnacle of prog
I saw Yes at MSG NYC in Feb '74. They opened with Close to The Edge - the whole album. THEN. They did ALL FOUR SIDES of Tales. Epic is not the word to describe it. I happened to be on blotter acid at the time. I went home, stopped drinking and doing drugs locked myself in my room and practiced bass for a year-and-a-half straight. Glad I got to see it BEFORE they started cutting sides. Acid highly recommended.
Are you certain this actually happened....maybe you are rembering a drug trip
I bought the record in 1973 and it is my favourite Yes album. I never understood why it was controversial. It is more complex and sophisticated than your typical rock album. At the end of the day, it is mostly a matter of what you like listening to. Over the years I discovered that most rock critics are musical morons. Dr. Doug Helvering is a classical composer and he evaluated the album on his channel and he concluded that Tales was a masterpiece.
Here's the thing thought, it's not a masterpiece. It'd have to at the very least be the best thing Yes has done and it's not. TYA, Fragile and CTTE are all significantly better (and so is Relayer, GFTO, Drama and 90125), by a factor of 11.
Bill left the band because he didn't want to do this. Chris has never said much overly positive about it and doesn't provide many moments/riffs or melodies. Rick hates it and has laid out his case over time. Jon has said it's the meeting point of high ideals and low energy, though he does defend it these days and leans more into it's ambitions and relationship to his grand narrative as it were. Steve likes it because he got to do a lot of acoustic work, but there's far more going on than acoustic stuff. I'm frankly blown away that people like it as much as they do. It's got a few spots, but mostly it just sort of plods along, while evoking all of the mysticism of something like The Smurfs. Yes are one of my favorite groups and I'm looking forward to seeing Jon with the Band Geeks in a few weeks, but this record was and is a buzz kill. They fixed it with Relayer though and CTTE is the peak of the whole prog genera before prog became a technique as opposed to an art. Tales just doesn't do it for me at all. But as a Yes fan I can't bring myself to ignore the album as a topic. I'd rather listen to Big Generator. lol
I'd like think the reason Chris Squire doesn't sound like himself on Tales is so he could plausibly deny having had anything to do with it.
Pretty good description of the whole experience of listening to this album. Nothing very exciting happens on this album, except perhaps for some funky bass and wild electric guitar on side 3.
@@Emlizardo I got a chuckle out of that. I think the band, largely at Chris' request did try to ignore this record for a long period, before it was legacy mode time around 96'. Being in Yes at times (post CTTE) had some of the hallmarks of being in a new age cult, which the 70's had plenty of and this record really signifies this the most out of any of the records they did.
@@ericarmstrong6540 That's the part that's too weird for the people who like this record and go to the mats over it- it's also the best part as I see it. I've noticed that Tales truthers are usually guys who wear pocket protectors and are good at math. Just odd all the way around this record is.
I know the narrative is that none of Yes was very passionate and involved in the making of this album and that they would like to ignore it, but i strongly disagree.
An album as ambitious and daring as Tales could not have ever been made without each member giving it their full attention. Nobody, literally nobody is “phoning in” their performance.
It’s ok for people to not like this album, but don’t feed into the false narrative that Yes was not collectively proud of it. Chris has gone on record saying “the Remembering” is “the most beautiful” bass part he’s ever done, and Rick himself has given praise to “Ritual” saying the end song is one of Yes’ strongest moments.
Disagree with you about this one, Andy. About the only positive thing I can think of to say about Tales is that it's definitive proof Bill Bruford got the hell out of that band just in the nick of time.
I think Bruford would have made the album a lot more interesting. I'm with you. The concept (and length) came before the tunes.
When I think of the hipper-than-thou music critics of the long byegone LP era, here in the States, there are two or three big names that come to mind, one of which is Robert Christgau, a critic whose work I despise though he and I are in the same camp more or less. The guy that Lou Reed was talking about when he said something like "you sweat blood on an album and then some asshole in the Village Voice gives it a B-." As an example of what Andy's talking about, do a quick search of Christgau's name and the name of this album, to see his thumbnail review of it. It's not just dismissal or mockery. It's hostility, he wants to punch this album; he transparently wants his words to hurt.
The best albums are the albums that are profoundly meaningful almost to the point of life-changing for those who resonate with them, and albums like that have to take risks and go out on limbs. They aren't going to be for everyone, we all have different limbs we're willing to go out on. I'm a non prog, basically anti-prog really, music lover, but I'm trying to find my way toward enjoying some classic prog, trying to stretch my ears. I gave this album a couple of listens, the second one just now. It would be so easy to be dismissive of it. But my first listen was to an upload here on this site, and I read in that comment section and elsewhere stories and reflections from people who deeply love this album; I'd have to be even more glib than I am to just go with my impulse and say, "Yep, that's prog all right." I'm feel like I'm trying to open a coconut--it's harder than I thought, but I know there's sweet nourishment in there.
For me, the particular problem with Yes was always the boy soprano vocals. And still now, I just can't. The mystico-goofball word salad lyrics are not a problem, they could easily help make this a sort of guilty pleasure listen, and those can be sweet. As a crusty old skeptic, I don't think the bright and trusting optimism in these lyrics is stupid; instead I look at it like Aqualung looking at a beautiful townhouse, thinking how nice it must be to live there. The barrier of entry for me is the singer, not the song. I like it better when the singing stops, but it still doesn't hook me, I'm afraid, and it is quite a bit like taking medicine. But if this album so disliked by many Yes fans, I think there might be a chance for me to like some of their other stuff, maybe?
Everything that's wrong with progressive rock....and everything that's great about it, too!
Since Rick went on to do even longer side-long pieces on his solo albums, there are 3 explanations of his attitude: 1- He is a hypocrite and the negative comments he was putting out after the release of this album was simply because he was a competitor of Yes at that time (I am not of that opinion), 2- He was at odds on personal level with the others in the band and he was simply attacking them due to personal fued (see Pink Floyd, both Dave and Rogers putting down pink Floyd albums they were not leading. Especially Dave's hatred of Animals, purely its hatred of Rogers), or 3- He was truly put off by Jon's concepts and lyrics, and truly saw it unintelligible and thus embarrassing. I see the 3rd makes more sense, and this conflict between serious philosophic approach of music, vs the lighthearted approach, and how this always affected the team playing of the English (not just in music), is something worth exploring
Tell us what you really think.
There are no deep cuts on this album, and it is afine recording.
Maybe checking out Rick Beato’s interviews of Jon Anderson may give one a better understanding of the meaning of Yes lyrics. Sometimes there isn’t a story, but a figurative throwing of lyrics into a song and see what fits. In other words, Anderson’s lyrics SOMETIMES did not really mean anything at all.
It is a bit much, but then that is prog isn't it?
I totally agree with Rick Wakeman's take on it. They had a bit more than an album of decent material but rather than whittle it down to a single fantastic album, they decided to pad the thing into a double album....Thus, there are "meandering" bits (good term). Bits that Rick found so boring he left the band. I edited the album down myself and my abridged version is one of my favorite prog albums. Others have as well. Tons of edits floating around.
"Dawn of the light lying between the silence of sole sources..." WTF is Jon singing about? Who cares. The music is amazing.
I have the same comment for Lamb lies down or the Wall and for topographic ocean: There are very good moments on those albums but as a whole not that great.
A great but flawed album, but sometimes the flaws help keep things interesting. Perfection can be boring 😉
Andy, does Yes have the English aesthetic sense of humor or whimsy? I like them, but it seems like they always are very serious.
Have you heard Wakeman in conversation?
Marshall is correct. Regardless of Wakeman's personality, you won't find any trace of the Cheeky Chappie in Yes's music.
Their lyrics are very whimsical. Spiritual, new agey, hippy dippy, whatever you want to call it. On that side of things rather than humour.
...I use Wakeman's prostate exam joke a lot. Never disappoints. :-)
If it were four 10 minute songs put on a single slab of vinyl, nothing would be lost.
I believe that, as originally written, that's pretty much what it was. But, too much for a 12" vinyl, & they couldn't cut anything out, so they decided to pad it out to 20mins each, for a double album. That is actually what Rick Wakeman really hates about it.
@@chassetterfield9559 bingo, the padding referenced involved Rick having to play parts that were supposed to be traveling down the topographic ocean into the minds eye or some pompous hilariousness. Other sections were extended as well. All of the added up to the core ideas being watered down, significantly.
@@colinburroughs9871 czcams.com/video/SMONaUyw1dg/video.html
uh, wrong! this says more about your attention span than it does about the music; ditto the inane remarks about "padding"
Move around surely sing
As they don't seem to matter at all
At all at all-At all at all-At all at all-At all at all-At all at all-At all at all-At all at all-At all at all-At all at all-At all at all-At all at all.
i think its a waste of my time. speaking of time, Time and a Word is a GREAT album.
I never got on with this album tbh. Its my least favourite 70's Yes album after Tormato. Mostly noodling twaddle. Sorry. Nice album cover though... :-)
Sorry it's awful. It's one good album dragged out to a double. I saw them when they toured the album. It was hard work even then. I tried listening to it recently. Still didn't get to the end....
I'd take it a step further and say it's one bad album dragged out to a double.
The fact that you - Andy - you have to explain that Tales is cohesive - that the album meanders 'a little bit' - that the magic is not quite there - that's all we need to hear. Why are you such a Yes apologist? You really do come off as a Yes Fanboy. Face it - you got into Yes when you were young and you have a hard time confronting Yes's shortcomings. Grow some balls and start learning about VdGG/Peter Hammill and Banco del Mutuo Soccorso. Then your opinions will matter more. Why? Because you mostly learned prog that you were fed. You don't seem to have searched for the music that represents you. EVERYBODY got into Yes/Genesis/King Crimson/PFloyd. They were prog's household names. Since bands like VdGG and Banco were NEVER in the news almost never played on radio we had to put our energy into finding this music that we championed. You were spoon fed the music that you like with certain expectations already formed. You were not around to experience this music in real time and you have major catching up to do. And since the greatest prog albums take time to reveal their greatness - you scramble and try to learn the great prog past. But you haven't caught up yet. And by noticing how little you know about European prog - let alone Van der Graaf Generator - I doubt you ever will. Yes has always been a top tier prog band with levels of greatness that most bands envy - I love them - sadly Tales does not reach Yes's lofty levels of greatness. Not close. And listening AND seeing them for 50 years has only reinforced my opinion. Tales is no CTTE. Not then. Not now. Not Ever. Keep up these great videos - but make sure to save some time to listen to this music - you're not getting any younger and it takes time to appreciate so much that you still don't know.
It's crap..nuff said
I'll lift the entire review I once read of a Harry Connick Jr. album and apply it here: "Self-indulgent crud."
.....but suitable for the masses
I am purchasing the new YES album as soon as I find it in ATMOS. 😞 ****** YES is / was my favorite band. This is my honestly cruel review of "Mirror to the Sky" Obviously I am very disappointed. "Dozens of mini themes stitched together very musically BUT without any of them being catchy enough to care to remember... just unending musical phases with no meaning or connection or story. A grand exhibit of technical musicianship without a single melody that you wish to carry away with you. Just the same as everything else since Magnification. No amount of musical mastery can replace a good simple melody. That is what was great about YES... They had both. This represents a ton of hard work and musicianship... but for what? Why would such talented musicians work so hard on themes that touch nothing? Melody is everything" 🙁
The whole hi-fi angle could be a thing but the embrace of progressive rock in the 1960s and 1970s was more likely due to Western people still being into high culture. This would change by the mid 1970s when the impact of comprehensive education started to hit. The music papers and music industry were taken over by leftists who viewed high culture as pretentious. The rise of 'progressivism'/neo-Marxism/cultural-Marxism in the second half of the 20th century led to the destruction of the grammar schools. And the early stages of the mass population replacement agenda resulted in a demographic shift and cultural shift. 1/
The second half of The Remembering is as good as any Yes effort-to me the hilite of the album
I don't like, so old....so hippie, but cover art is a little dreaming but old and something a kid could have done 🤫
Ukulele is not a guitar 😠