i became a kpop fan at the tail end of 3rd gen, i believe a lot of kpop stans still can't accept we're in 5th gen because of the pandemic. a lot of people's perception of time got warped because of it cuz tbh i still feel stuck on 4th gen
I think if we are truly in 5th gen then the groups from the 2022 wave should be considered 5th gen too. According to fans, 4th gen only lasted 2-3 years, when all the previous generations lasted at least 7. The supposedly "4th gen groups ", Aespa, and newjeans are in their prime and have just started dominating the show, and the big groups like BTS and BLACKPINK only started to pass the torch in 2022. It's incoherent.
If anything, I think it's reversed and nobody would be saying we are in 5th gen if it weren't for the pandemic. It just doesn't make sense. By the same logic, in 2026, we will already be in 6th gen kpop I guess. EDIT: I literally called it, there is a boy group claiming to be the start of 6th gen already, I'm just so tired and disappointed with kpop right now.
@@HaegemonI think the difference is the ratio. Young members always debuted but now the ratio of minors to non minors is much more skewed towards minors.
@@Haegemonit’s different now 3rd gen had a couple of 30 year olds and it was fine. That’s like unheard of now except for red velvets Irene. The moment you are in your twenties you can be considered to old to debut which is crazy
As someone who joined kpop in 2005 in 2nd gen, seeing all these new kpop fans bicker and speculate over "when is the next gen?" has me rolling my eyes. The whole debate is useless, because take it from me: You often don't know when exactly a gen changes UNTIL YEARS LATER. It takes time and a couple of years to establish a new generation. You can't just 'declare' a new generation like pathetic MNET tried. Also: What is the use and point in defining all these generations when all people use it nowadays for is to argue and make their favorites look special? You're all missing the point. BY A LOT. A generation change is when some older groups are slowly retiring after 7-ish years and when at least like 4-5 new mega giants debut simulateously in the same year. It's also kind of related to trends, but it's NOT the main focus. NewJeans is just a 4.5 gen rookie and that is okay. I would personally say 5th gen started late 2023 around November/December, but even now we are NOT certain yet as the 'new giants' still have to prove themselves.
@@IoveIieit’s not exactly big companies that decide when a new Gen starts though. The industry is so massive it would be foolish to think that a singular company is able to declare what generation is the next.
If 5th gen started around December 2023, then Kiss Of Life would be a late 4th gen group. ZB1 would also be classified as 4th gen as they debuted July 2023 and Kiss Of Life also in July last year. Even BM would be a fourth gen group just by days 😂 I personally find it makes more sense that like music and the trends are like comprised by decades like the western music industry does it. Cause with these generations in K-Pop it‘s so confusing. And I’ve been a fan for nearly three years at this point.
I also think the generations changed or are less clear is because we still have prior ones still active. Especially 3rd gen a lot of groups resigned and are still going strong as a full group and as soloists. Compare when 3rd gen really took over as 2nd gen groups disbanded or slowed down or went into acting and such to when 4th gen was in full swing. They still got records and were sucessful but didnt surpass their 3rd gen still active labelmates and with a lot of idols redebuting in new groups you still have familiar faces in the industryfor longer. The fans also fuel this. Keeping track of records as "the first 4th gen group to ...." etc Its gonna be interesting now that the first couple of 4th gen groups start to resign or not.
Slightly off topic but I hate how "resigned" and "re-signed" have almost opposite meanings but are written almost exactly the same, I was so confused by the beginning of your comment for a minute lol. First world kpop fan problems
@Haegemon No one is saying there's no relevant 2nd gen acts anymore, like, we could argue that there's even 1st gen idols who are still popular at least in Korea, but you can't deny that there is a huge difference on how most groups, even the popular ones, were already disbanding or going on "indefinite hiatus" when we were living on the 3rd generation (sure, KARA revived and Taeyeon is one of the most influential celebrities in Korea, but even their groups suffer from big hiatus during that era, and it was pretty recently when they have their reunions). Meanwhile the popular 3rd gen groups are still active, maybe taking longer breaks because of their solo activities, some members are now in different companies or military service for the boy groups, but it's mostly a year or two before they comeback and start doing group activities again. Not to mention that the biggest kpop acts are still BTS and BLACKPINK. No group from the 4th generation could surpassed them in terms of popularity during their era, like 3rd gen did with the most relevant 2nd gen groups...
NewJeans is definitely 4th gen. People categorize Lesserafim into 4th gen, so it would make no sense to make them 4th and Newjeans 5th when they debuted the same year just months apart. You could try to say it’s bc of how they made the easy to go viral music trend, but they’re still 4th gen. It’s like how Weki Meki was one of the first groups to do teen crush which is very prevalent in 4th, but they’re still 3rd gen.
Because they didn’t really pave the way. Yes, they promoted around the world, but kpop wasn’t taken seriously until 2017-2018. It was only seen as a niche genre.
@@neb.9489kpop was still taken as niche genre. Besides kpop was still taken as niche genre in their own country too and Boa literally made Kpop mainstream in japan
Paved the way for these artists to be seen as a joke, copies of western artist with the music, styling etc and all the stereotypes that still exist in the GPs mind.....paved the way my ahh
That's because they were a very much still a niche market bless them. They were bravo though and tried they dipped their toes into the water but they didn't persist.
In my mind we're in the latter half of the 4th gen - feel like the term 5th gen has just be thrown round by a couple of companies for the sake of trying to market and distinguish their groups. It's then adopted by the fans of said groups If you look at some of the key 4th gen groups (Aespa, Stray Kids etc), they're still firmly in their peak, which in my mind indicates we haven't seen enough transition to count it as a new gen yet. Compare this to the transition between 2nd and 3rd gen - when this was happening you saw a real obvious rise and fall, with the 2nd gen groups having longer gaps between comebacks and less popularity in the charts, whilst the 3rd gen groups started to debut and takeover (especially around 2014-15). Feel like until we see that happening it's hard to claim we've entered this next generation.
This makes sense due to the pandemic being 2-3 years in-between, thus making it a longer generation than normal. I will say that 2024 could be a proper first year of gen 5 though, but we'll have to patiently wait and see. As we older gen stans know: You can't tell a gen change when you're in it. It takes years after to kind of establish it.
i personally see groups that debuted around 2021-2022 as a sort of 4.5 gen because the difference between itzy and nmixx feels similar to the difference between wonder girls and miss A (for me) (this isn't the only reason but its the easiest to explain). i think if i had to call something 5th gen i would put 8turn and tripleS at the front of it (early 2023). i feel like newjeans' music also feels very 5th gen but timewise i would put them in 4.5
As a Gen 1 fan, it seems that from Gen 3 on, the standardization of 7-year contract has played a HUGE role in the generation shifts & their impact. Back in the 90's, the average contracts were 10 years long, which is precisely why we look back on those generations as longer. Each group is seen as having a shelf life that the companies want to max out, which led to increasingly more predictable trajectories. The shorter modern shelf life leads to behavior like YG basically having Babymon "on deck" for YEARS in preparation for Blackpink's inevitable departure. I think the irony is that the older groups are benefiting from this shift while younger groups struggle more & more each year to gain or maintain a spot at the top. Look at the fairly consistent popularity of groups like TWICE, Red Velvet, EXO, NCT or even SNSD (who are all past their intial contracts) compared to the wobbly state of many younger groups like STAYC or Le Sserafim. Even Newjeans are in a "heavy hate" era-- just a year and change after being beloved at debut. I remember Itzy getting the grand slam of rookie awards & the most views of any girl group debut in the first 24 hours-- by Sneakers, they had a fraction of a fraction of that heat. The feeling of inevitable turnover seems to make groups feel less substantial than they used to... that and the oversaturation within both the industry at large & individual groups (Aespa has a comeback every few weeks) just makes it all feel slightly less special than it used to.
i think it’s the oversaturation of groups plus their focus on appealing to tiktok. it leads to catchy but ultimately forgettable music. people remember songs with stand out vocal moments or stand out lyrics, songs that actually made them feel. i think aesthetics and general vibe are prioritized even more nowadays in kpop over the music. the choruses are gone and there are barely any climaxes in songs. these songs made during 4th and 5th gen will not stand the test of time like songs of previous gens have
seeing as the longevity of groups is expanding, with many 3rd gen groups still being very much active and successful, as well as some older gen shooting their shot again, and obviously the 4th gen groups being still in their peak with no signs of slowing down, making the division by ‘the previous generation is loosing momentum” doesn’t really make sense anymore. other factors have to be the reason for that change. i think sometimes 4th gen might feel shorter only because of the pandemic. but if you consider stray kids, gidle and even the boyz as 4th gen, then it would have to begin around december 2017 to early 2018! that would make it 6-7 years long! longer than the 5 years of 3rd gen from 2012ish to 2017ish. every generational changed has been marked by different factors, so it’s not really predictable until a noticeable shift is seen in hindsight. for example what i think marks the clear distinction between 3rd and 4th gen is that 3rd gen was kpop starting from “local” and going global, whereas in 4th gen it already was global, so the groups debuted with way bigger international audiences additional to the original usual asian audiences, which comes with its own new challenges that previous generations didn’t have to deal with. personally, i think we’re more in the transition period between 4th gen and 5th, rather than already in the 5th, but only time will tell.
maybe a defining factor of 5th gen will be the popularization of global kpop groups, groups with non asian members such as vcha and katseye. at least that seems to be the trend the companies are pushing for. we’re not there yet, but it could happen
Great analysis! I think generations are a marketing tool. Let's face it, there are likely no artists that will ever top BTS / Blackpink, so bracketing them off into "third generation" enables kpop companies to say things like "best-selling 4th gen group" etc. Now that 4th gen groups are setting their own milestones, 5th gen has to be created so that these new groups can manufacture their own accomplishments.
Ding ding dinggg !!!! 100% because what r these groups gonna have to their name when bts basically has majority of all records in kpop, Korea, Asia, as a group and even have many many "first artist/act to xyz" to their name. Fans of these groups need something to latch on and have some semblance of competition with other 4th, 5th ggs/bgs/groups. Plus these labels and companies are just fueling it all because another comment mentioned mnet declaring the start of the 5th gen with some group (sorry forgot the name) ,,,,like who are you to declare a new generation just because you want your artists to bag the "first 5th gen xyz to do/have the most sales/views/streams blablabla" 😭😭😭💀
@@user-vv7hc7kb5o yes especially since last week when BTS were officially recognised as the most award Global Artists not kpop artist but Global Artists with 1, 400 Music Awards 5 grammy nominations, 31 Guinness world Records. They were on the way to it when they broke the Beatles and MJ's record.
Became a fan of kpop in 2008. First I heard of Shinee as kpop but became huge fan of Big Bang. I had heard of Suju but thought they were Chinese, also knew about TVXQ and thought they were Japanese. 2nd gen was a golden age because they were very different from each other and tended to have their own color or strive to have their own personality as a group. Even 3rd group were okay, but there was way too many groups all at once, all together. This is when their colors started to diminish as a group and vocals started to go downhill after 3rd generation. Those who came out in this time still have signature sounds. 4th looks like everything is the same, sounds the same. Nothing is too different. Some groups are okay or they are copies of groups that split up due to contracts. Groups are younger, copies of seniors. Because of this the kids don’t develop their own distinctive personalities nor strong vocal talent. If they have vocals they are pushed to the side in order to serve the catchy songs. 5th Gen….to me is irrelevant to me. Boring.
3rd gen also has many oustanding vocal groups tho specially early 3rd gen groups that debuted between 2012-2014 mamamoo, btob exo red velvet but seventeen main vocalist are also very good tho,and despite any críticism to bts not having a strong vocal line they started as a hip hop group and they have one of the Best rap línes in kpop same as big bang, that is very good as well, 4th gen is more performance focus with some groups having one stand out but not anything else like jongho from ateez is one example and ofcourse aespa but they are an sm group so its mostly expected but even them have mostly a lot of rap and Performance focus same with now 5th gen or whatever
I think a really important thing to have in mind is that usually girlgroup generations seem to start a little bit after the bg ones, like the first impactful 2nd gen ggs were wg, kara and gg who debuted in 2007, 3 years after the start of the generation, this happened again in 2014 when rv and mamamoo debuted 2 years after the start of 3rd gen, and ofc with 4th gen gets a little trickier but tbh people started to call a gg 4th gen with itzy, so i would say that either way in 2019 or in 2020 due to the pandemic and the wave of the ggs that came with the new decade the 4th generation of ggs started, i don’t believe in terms of girlgroups we’re in 5th gen, babymonster is the respond yg have for the 4th gen ggs, which they do with each generation and they’re always the last ones, and illit seems so similar to nj and the other ggs of this gen that i don’t believe there is a change yet. Also generations now feels like a way fans and companys found and use to créate achivements for their favorite groups, but i believe until new groups break records of the old ones we’re in 4th gen, i mean, at least if we talk about girlgroups until 2021-22 3rd gen ggs were the most popular and impactful ones, so start a new generation this soon seems just a little oportunistic, but hey just my opinion, i love seeing other peoples opinions and theories and love the video💕
wasn't the consensus for 4th gen to have started in 2018 with (g)Idle and Stray Kids because their sounds and stylings were completely different and new compared to other previous groups? It would make 3rd and 4th gen the same length
A big stand out group in 4th generation that pushes the envelope, makes political statements on women empowerment, the mysogony in koreas society and recently clearly came out as lgbtq+ allies in an interview is gidle. These themes are also deeply explored in their songs, troughout many of their albums and concepts which are self produced. Alsoo, they are the first self produced gg that got success with self producing. Soyeon is the only verified KOMCA gg member idol. The only other female idol at all is IU. It should be mentioned as well since 4th gen broke the only 3 groups are extremely successful troupe. Le sserafim, NJ are also noticable. So in 4th gen it is 6 gg total.
Absolutely agree. And about 3rd gen gg (I don't listen bg). Not to mention Mamamoo (vocal queens) and Dreamcatcher (Rock in the field of pop sound) it's a strange.
@@Santia5a yes and when we are at it kiss of life should be mentioned as well like mamamoo, gidle, kiss of life they also managed to make a name for themselves tough talent, help in the production and a fresh concept, Nobody knows, bad news speaks about school bullying, sa in the mvs
@@moriko-chan1059 yes KoL it's a new gen. 1 gen. Birth of K-pop. Go and sing, if you want. 2 gen. Company start training and investing in promotion. SNSD and Big Bang. 3 gen. Explosion around the world access to social media and CZcams. BTS and BP. 4 gen. Self produced groups + dance challenges. SKZ and (g)i-dle. 5 gen. I don't know yet.
no, there are other female idols with komca credits. moonbyul from mamamoo and miryo from beg have the most writing credits so far. exy from wjsn also writes along with LE from EXID. 3rd gen is when you started seeing more singer songwriter female idols
We are still in the 4th generation. If you can't define the generation then it's still ongoing. The generations are defined by the shift in the industry. The first generation was building the foundation of the industry away from the ultra conservative, tightly regulated and controlled music industry to more free expression. They leaned heavily on American and Japanese structures to build their own identity. The second generation is the expressive generation. The Korean music industry stopped looking towards Japan and America for guidance and started innovating themselves. The sound and look of kpop became more unique and they developed their own identity. The 3rd generation is the generation of globalization. Kpop spread it's unique style across the world. The 4th generation is the generation of westernization. The trend is to write songs for the western audience. There's even songs written completely in English nowadays. There is no 5th generation. It's just fun for fans to say.
@kairiamane3058 The age of the idols don't mean anything. There are older people who debut later like Wanna One's Ji-sung who was 26. Taemin who is a 2nd generation idol and Jimin who is 3rd generation. Things always shift if you give them time. 5 years isn't enough time. I know 5 years is a long time for people younger than 25 because it's a year is a bigger chunk of their lives but 5 years is nothing. It took almost 7 years for the 3rd generation to start to show differences from the 4th.
@@kpopme7327 If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck, it's a duck. Or in this case if it looks like the 4th generation, sounds like the 4th generation and acts like the 4th generation, it's the 4th generation. The only argument that the 5th Gen has begun is that people say it has. Ever other generation had clear differences. That's how we knew that they were different generations but the 4th generation isn't different from the so called 5th. If it isn't different it's the same. I'm willing to die on this hill.
Tracking generation shift is hard but for me, I would looking at the big3 group. If their current groups can overshadowed their predecessor, then there's our generation shift. But it's hard to determine the 3rd and 4th gen cuz all big3 peak in 3rd gen (Exo, Blackpink, Twice). But I feel like most of us can agree that 2018 forward are 4th gen. Now, to decide 5th gen, there must be big3 groups that can overshadow Aespa and Skz as they are our biggest groups in each big3. If some year, there are big3 groups that surpassed Aespa and Skz, then we're in a complete 5th gen. And by surpassed, I mean in term of hype or award or chart.
I still think a contract length (7 years or so give or take a year or two of overlap) is the best gen splitter. SM or YG’s flagship groups (2NE1 - 2nd, BP - 3rd, BM - 4th) are a pretty good barometer. A subdivision (e.g., 2.5) can be used if you want to split hairs a bit more (like f(x) compared to SNSD). The biggest reason for the generational shift is simply the fanbase demo. Teens/early 20s is the biggest slice of the growth pie. There are fans of all ages, of course, but fans “age out” getting jobs, families, etc. Since younger fans tend to support groups with similar age members, companies plan accordingly.
Depends on the group. BTS and its members are still going strong even in the military, with a fan base from kids to people in their 80s. I know the person doing this video didn't want to talk about the elephant in the room, but it's a pretty big elephant.
Like for me personally I see groups like Kiss Of Life, BabyMonster, ZB1, etc. as 4th gen, not necessarily as 5th gen. Cause if 1st gen lasted 11 years, 2nd gen nine, 3rd gen seven, 4th would be five years and 5th gen would then last only THREE whole years. And groups like NewJeans are definitely fourth gen and also don‘t feel like 4.5th gen as some people put it.
The rapid pace of change may prove to be detrimental to K-pop. Many groups are heavily competing with each other in terms of music, branding, and marketing, making it difficult to differentiate between them. As a result, it's hard to pinpoint where we are in terms of generations because the groups tend to look and sound very similar. This lack of distinction diminishes their overall impact. There's nothing wrong with artists representing different decades, as this grants them the opportunity to draw from a wide range of inspiration and cultivate their own unique style. This is how iconic and enduring art is created. Unfortunately, most K-pop idols do not have a distinctive body of work. Many of the newer generation idols may only be remembered for their visual appeal rather than their music, especially if they struggle to transition successfully into post-K-pop careers.
I think that 5th gen will be defined by more concept-based groups with how big kpop has gotten and there's more niches, like with New Jeans. I do think we need to accept that 5th gen is here, and there are some groups that toe the lines. Like G-Idle is 3rd gen but feels 4th gen, and NewJeans is 4th gen but feels 5th gen
with me, i personally see the generations with the 0.5 added. for example, the 1st gen was around the early to late 90s with 90s trends and mostly hiphop, rock, and cutesy pop sounds (and more attention was on groups). then there was a shift around 2002,2003 when we would see more sexy concepts and soloists becoming more popular and even with the camera work there was a difference (1st gen camera work was more "all over the place" while the latter half of that gen had more clear camera quality and stiller movements) (more 2000s trends), this is what i would call the 1.5 gen, leading into the 2nd gen (in which the beginning was going back into groups and heading towards cute and sexy concepts). and i am surprised that baby vox did not get their personal shout out (i did see them in the vid btw) bc of how much influence they have had in the industry despite going through so much (and yes i get that bbv were not as popular as s.e.s. or finkl) baby vox debuted with a female warrior concept, preaching for feminism and calling out the toxic behavior of cheating by men (which was so controversial that it was banned from music shows at that time (and they were the first gg that were categorized as kpop too, july 1997), normalized women rapping (their main rapper being one of the first female kpop rappers who wrote her own lyrics and even having a full english rap despite not being fluent in the language), brought kpop to china and garnered a huge following there around 1999 and performing in other countries, even continents such as north america and australia. paved for the girl crush concept during one of their prime times in their careers (when cute concepts were the norm for ggs), having belly button piercings (sk was still more conservative around this time), having a song so popular that it was the anthem for the sk president of 2002 and olympics, bring in more androgyny and tomboy looks (one of their members got attention for their short haircut and got attention for being "boyish"), talked about heartbreak and the aftermath of breakups in their songs, etc. tldr: i belive we are around the 4.5 heading towards the 5th gen & that baby vox done a lot in their contribution to kpop that i wanna yap abt it :3
I think the reason why generations has become shorter is because comanies and fans alike wants to debut the next big thing that changes the course of kpop from now on. Everyone says "this group will become the fifth gen leader" because it's already clear they could not compete with already established groups from the fourth gen, or at least its not the target. Im safe to say that at least now it became a second phase of the fourth gen, because some early top groups are not as relevant as they were, and newer groups are being on trend since they yave fresher sounds and concepts.
TLDR I would like to add something i have noticed in the generation changing discourse. As you seen the video, dear yoongi explains it perfectly how generation change and why they exist and so on. Another reason i think it's getting dangerously shorter is because of the western music market and TikTok dominating the world in a very interesting way and since last two generations want to desperately cater to the western audience (i.e. global audience bc western mainstream music is everywhere) The changes of genres, saturation and Concentration of those genres, concepts, themes and fashion. Everything has become copying homework. It feels boring. It doesn't appeal to people (specifically the kpop stans who entered in kpop community at 1st,2nd & 3rd gens) because kpop lost its charms that it had before despite using same old western inspired genres and what not. Every group had something unique to offer but kpop in general had a unique appeal because of teh stupid lyrics, interesting instrumentals, lots of people in group, funny people, vairty shows being unhinged and so on. The list is very big. But now idols have strictly become a product and each product requires excellent and detailed branding. This includes them being shutted up by the company and hyper controlled in their mannerisms and words etc. Like being less himan and more idols. Wonyoung is a perfect example. She has been doing it since ahe was so young. Now she an adult but still quite young and she keeps her idol persona intact properly. We can clearly see that she keeps a strict standard for herself as an idol. Not to mention the unnecessary hate she gets. But any naive person is gonna say that's her real self is absolutely wrong. Her own standards are exactly what her company wants from her to keep so she brings in lots of money. Which is why she's a natural born idol as the industry describes her to. Now there's nothing wrong with being good at your job but when an industry treats you as a product and sells you as like that then what it does to idol's mind is unimaginable. Just because she doesn't share much and only shares her confidence with her fans and beyond doesn't mean she is not having a difficult time as a person. Same thing applies to so many of these big idols as well. Especially from 4th &5 th gen. What i mean is, east Asian music culture especially the one for youth is designed in a way where taking criticism is just not a thing and when fandoms see their favs get good or bad criticism they get highly vigilant and offended as if tehya re the ones getting it. Tahst because industry sells these idols in such an inhumane way where they are products taht make their fans feel good about themselves. Therefore these products (idols ) should always be perfect because customer-nim wants or desires to be perfect themselves but can't be due to xyz reasons (capitalism pressure, expectations from elders, social pressure, rigid roles etc ) Which is also why we see international kpop fans(non- east asian ones) generally consume kpop in a different way in comparison to east asina fans. And we express this distinguishable thing in different ways on thw internet like "why are these k-engenes so miserable, why can't female dancers dance with engenes", why are chinese fans like this. Bro Korean fans are so toxic. Why are japanese fans boycotting xyz over this,like get a life etc. Do you get what i am saying despite my broken English? Like we can clearly see idols has a very product, no human type of treatment from these companies when their music is being sold. This doesn't mean international fans aren't annoying like this at all. But this is especially prominent due to a culture reasons in east Asia. I woudl like to refer anyone who's reading my comment to Aini's video about east asians loneliness and consuming such things in an interesting way that is unique to them. Moving on, the consumption forbthe sake of just music and art is decreasing horrendously as well. Lot's of young new kpop fans cna easily be obsessed over any gro doing the bare minimum because being gen z and alpha is hard in this reality that sucks. We are depressed more than ever and kpop capitalises on that the same way it used to do it on east asian youth depression. Well, capitalism ruins everything and now its late stage capitalism. Kpop is no exception for this. Our complicity and ignorance plays a big & invisible part in destruction of some regions of the third world. I know it was really long but i feel we should be a bit aware of something we enjoy without any worries. It takes away from problems to create more problems in the bigger picture. Long story short everything is connected. And kpop is being affected by it all.
Ive noticed every time a new generation starts, theres a group in the previous generation that blows up and defines their predecessors. For example, 2018 is when 4th gen started and BTS and Blackpink blew up. They defined 4th gen despite being 3rd gen which started a girl/boy crush wave and later on more english releases. NewJeans debuted right before 5th gen, blew up with their Y2K style and defined easy listening, brighter music.
you forgot the factor of the rinse and repeat which people get bored of very quickly and rather see their groups garner the attuide of allowing the artist and fans to evolve they they just rinse and repeat so the life span of most groups is getting shorter and shorter especially for those groups who don't have much input in what they put out.
The only "concern" for international fans should be their own mental health. Kpop is just entertainment essentially aimed at Asian audiences. There's almost nothing to think about. There are no "important lyrics", it's just dance music, and the idols' personal lives are in a totally different culture. Just get a grip.
There are plenty of kpop songs that deal with more serious subject matter or where lyrics are important. And there are plenty of slower songs too, it's not all dance music.
I wholeheartedly believe that 5th gen is here and New Jeans is the first 5th gen group. Hear me out... I feel like ever since then, like you said, there's been this influx of this sort of Tiktok friendly music. Most songs now kinda of have y2k aesthetic even if it's different from their usual vibe. Such as XO from Enhypen, Blush from Woo!Ah! or Touch from Kateye. I love these songs and they're on my playlist but, you know, I feel like this trend came about only in 5th gen. To be fair, I only started truly stanning Kpop like roundabout March 2023 and I'm still new to Enhypen, so maybe there's something I'm missing. If so please educate me. I just really feel like the mass production of groups like New Jeans and Illit is something only really in 5th gen hence why it is its own generation. However, there is an argument to be made that groups like XG and Babymonster couldn't care less so clearly there are other genres and concepts out there. TWS is killing it with their cute concept which is similar to y2k but still individual... so I don't know... any other opinions?
Newjeans is securely 4th gen, just the shift in 4th gen. Think about it, aespa only debuted two years prior in 2020, and 4th gen was two when aespa debuted. It makes sense 4th gen went on for at least six years rather than just four from 2018 to 2022. Also, katseye isn't kpop nor do they have a signature sound yet. They said they'll be doing soft and strong type songs, which is why their ep is called sis, soft is strong.
Yeah, I think that’s a nice way to think of it. New Jeans as being the shift, I think that makes a lot of sense. Now, I’m rethinking my stance… If that’s the case, I wonder which group really is the first fifth gen? But I actually really like the way you phrased it, thank you. Also, good point, I guess Katseye isn’t technically K-pop and thank you for telling me more about their concept. Hopefully, what I said makes sense, at least a little bit, but yeah, yours makes a lot more. 😁
@@LoveYourself97846 you're welcome glad I could help! I wanna say that Boynextdoor is the first 5th gen boy group, and the debuted May 30th last year. Adya is the first 5th gen girl group and I'm pretty sure they debuted in the first half of May in 2023 as well. But these groups weren't given the "first 5th groups" title. The first groups to called 5th gen were Kiss of Life and Zerobaseone. However, Boynextdoor and Adya debuted first so they are the first 5th groups I believe
Thank you!!! I’m glad this didn’t turn into, like, a screaming match and there was actually an healthy discussion! ☺️😊😁. Have a nice day… or night…. You know what, just have a nice life, you deserve it 👋🏾 ❤️
I think 5th Gen will be longer than 4th Gen, just purely because 4th Gen is basically "the year before the pandemic, the years during the pandemic." 2023 was the first year, in Korea, that is "post" pandemic, so I think that's why 4th gen was so short and why I think 5th gen will be longer (I think it'll be the same length as a common kpop contract: 7 years).
I just wanted to ask a genuine question, if 2019 is the first year for 4th gen, what are 2018 debuts like gidle fromis9 Izone stray kids loona and Ateez? Also the boyz, since they debuted in the December of 2017. I also think newjeans was a pretty solidified group by the end of 2022 (esp. because of ditto + omg the following January) I can’t really see them as fifth gen, especially debuting with the same rookie bunch as IVE. Wonderful video, I just wanted to spew some thoughts for no big reason lol.
@@shuu-wasseo Yep :D that’s why I wanted to ask her about it. That would make 3rd gen look like 2012ish-2017ish which is oddly short, but adding 2018 wouldn’t really work either.
you didn’t mention wonder girls, a jyp group, even though they were also super popular in korea during the 2nd gen, and idols still cover their songs to this day (tell me and so hot). i think there hasn’t been enough time that has passed since 4th gen debuted for me to consider 5th gen as a valid classification. there hasn’t been a significant shift in music style and concepts for me, compared to in the past when you could really see the difference between 1st and 2nd or even 2nd and 3rd gens. i guess gens are getting shorter though bc companies keep debuting new groups sooner than in the past and manage multiple groups at the same time now
One thing I think is cause people have the whole you can’t be a ‘multi’ thing people will only focus on the group they Stan and being honest 3rd gen still run the roost so when bts or bp and others aren’t present/releasing people arent fully invested in what the younger gens are doing (cause w prior gens you were forced to move onto the next cause of disbandments)
Why thres no WONDER GIRLS in 2nd gen thye are so popular back then NOBODY ere are so massive and they introduce KPop in America if only Jype didnt push them to go abroad/international so early in their career Im glad my girls TWICE here then and still now are vey active
I came in right at the end of 2nd fading into third. ahn jaehyo drew me in with his face on the thumbnail for nalina but I was kind of dragged down with Big Bangs Blue, Bad Boy, and Fantastic Baby. 2ne1, suju and miss a and been there since the beginning of exo got 7 twice. An oldie kpopper.
3rd gen started when exo took over big bang...4th gen started so they won't compete in the equation with bts but bts and seventeen still on top so? how can we have 5th gen when 4th gen is still trying to prove themselves
That's what I was thinking -- generations shift when there is a clear passing of the torch. BTS and its members are still crushing it even in the military. Seventeen and Stray Kids are massive powerhouses, so how are we talking about 5th gen already?
I feel like one key difference between 1st and 2nd gen was that there were way more solo artists. They were in fact, dominant in the kpop industry. In 2nd gen in was kind of half and half, but from 2rd gen onwards groups dominated.
SES always the first song (Dreams) I introduce to anyone new to K-pop. They can be a rap fan or metal head but when that ethereal sound shows up they get it. SES Dreams was a catalyst.
I remember there was a lot of debate if Dreamcatcher was 3rd or 4th generation. But it says they are 3rd generation because 4th gen began in 2018. While 3rd gen ended in 2017-18. I'm happy they are 3rd gen cause they really bring unique style.
i became a kpop stan in 2017 i was stanning 3rd gen groups but i believe 2017 to be the start of 4th gen i ended up being a mostly 4th gen stan and tbh the thought of us being in 5th gen doesn't register in my mind but i'm def on the side of newjeans 4th gen bc they debuted in 2022 they just inspired the next gen
its so weird because on the kpopping website they put all of the 5th gen groups in the 4th gen category, idk if its a mistake but they keep adding all of the new groups in there
I originally became a kpop Stan in 2013. So I would say third generation. The vrey first group that I staned was SHINee. I got back into kpop back in 2021 with me Stanning BTS. I now stan 10+ groups and a few soloists.
I’m not sure if you have done this, or if you would want to do a video on this since as it is a sensitive topic but you are like one of the only creators I think could do it respectfully. Would you do a video on Body Shaming with both fat shaming and skinny shaming? I’ve noticed both have gotten bad on social media recently and I haven’t seen any videos on skinny shaming in particular. I’ve thought a lot about this over the years and I think someone needs to say something before fans or idols are hurt.
noun: generation; plural noun: generations 1. all of the people born and living at about the same time, regarded collectively. "one of his generation's finest songwriters" Similar: age age group peer group cohort stage of life the average period, generally considered to be about thirty years, in which children grow up, become adults, and have children of their own. "the same families have lived here for generations" Kpop marketing trying to sell y2k concept change = New Generation😂 Also, the number of people getting bored with y2k is already growing.🤣
Well, I do understand your need to add 5th generation, I never believed it to be started and I don't believe that it's started yet since I don't have any source or evidence or anything that I can trust to know fully if it's started or not, because there was no proper evidence or anything to say that it's started since with previous generations you get more of an idea when they started by googling. With 5th generation and people saying it started in 2023, who said that it did? where's the proof? what groups are the first in the 5th generation, since previous generations have groups that could be labled as the first of their generation? After hearing people say that it started in 2023, I thought about and still think about "who said that it did?, because I've never seen it". Many people have come to conclusion that it started in 2023, but most of these people who have come to this conclusion won't have a proper answer to why they believe 5th generation has started in 2023, and just probably believe it because they saw others say it, and was like "it must be true since people say it" without thinking for themselves. I'm not an anti-5th generation refusing to believe it's going on, I just want actual proof that I can believe in to know that "oh, 5th generation is definitely going on". That's why I still believe 2023 to be 4th generation, because I found nothing factual to trust in yet.
welp there was mnet at the beginning of 2023 with the airing of boys planet sharing in articles that they want to make "the top 5th gen group"..I was quite hesitant as well but I think as more outlets started making headlines abt 5th gen, I just accepted as many other people that 5th gen started
@@lungulavinia I don't trust Mnet. They're far from being trusted. They literally have rigged survival shows like produce. I've found it funny that people believe in 5th gen starting because "Mnet said it", when Mnet have shown how un-trustworthy they are.
WHY DO THEY DO GENERATIONS? WE DO NOT DO THAT IN AMERICA. ALSO MANY AMERICANS VIEW PSY AS MAKING KPOP KNOWN IN THE USA WITH HIS GANGNAM STYLE SONG, DANCE AND VIDEO!!! EVEN SOME AMERICA ARTIST USED SOME KPOP DANCERS IN THEIR VIDEOS. I AM A BABY BOOMER WHO LEARNED ABOUT KPOP FROM PSY.
i became a kpop fan at the tail end of 3rd gen, i believe a lot of kpop stans still can't accept we're in 5th gen because of the pandemic. a lot of people's perception of time got warped because of it cuz tbh i still feel stuck on 4th gen
Literally me I blink and we are in 4 th gen. It's crazy to think a group like itzy and new jeans are from the same generation
I think if we are truly in 5th gen then the groups from the 2022 wave should be considered 5th gen too. According to fans, 4th gen only lasted 2-3 years, when all the previous generations lasted at least 7. The supposedly "4th gen groups ", Aespa, and newjeans are in their prime and have just started dominating the show, and the big groups like BTS and BLACKPINK only started to pass the torch in 2022. It's incoherent.
If anything, I think it's reversed and nobody would be saying we are in 5th gen if it weren't for the pandemic. It just doesn't make sense. By the same logic, in 2026, we will already be in 6th gen kpop I guess.
EDIT: I literally called it, there is a boy group claiming to be the start of 6th gen already, I'm just so tired and disappointed with kpop right now.
I’m more worried about how young they’re debuting idols so frequently and how the fans and music is skewing younger…
Not much change on this. IU debuted with 15yo in 2008. Either if they debut or not, they become trainees when they are kids and teenagers.
@@HaegemonI think the difference is the ratio. Young members always debuted but now the ratio of minors to non minors is much more skewed towards minors.
@@asurafire5386 thank you
@@Haegemonit’s different now 3rd gen had a couple of 30 year olds and it was fine. That’s like unheard of now except for red velvets Irene. The moment you are in your twenties you can be considered to old to debut which is crazy
Well idols do have an expiry date at age of 25.
As someone who joined kpop in 2005 in 2nd gen, seeing all these new kpop fans bicker and speculate over "when is the next gen?" has me rolling my eyes. The whole debate is useless, because take it from me: You often don't know when exactly a gen changes UNTIL YEARS LATER. It takes time and a couple of years to establish a new generation. You can't just 'declare' a new generation like pathetic MNET tried. Also: What is the use and point in defining all these generations when all people use it nowadays for is to argue and make their favorites look special? You're all missing the point. BY A LOT.
A generation change is when some older groups are slowly retiring after 7-ish years and when at least like 4-5 new mega giants debut simulateously in the same year. It's also kind of related to trends, but it's NOT the main focus. NewJeans is just a 4.5 gen rookie and that is okay. I would personally say 5th gen started late 2023 around November/December, but even now we are NOT certain yet as the 'new giants' still have to prove themselves.
5th gen started in feb 2023 a big company announces 5th gen start
@@IoveIieit’s not exactly big companies that decide when a new Gen starts though. The industry is so massive it would be foolish to think that a singular company is able to declare what generation is the next.
If 5th gen started around December 2023, then Kiss Of Life would be a late 4th gen group. ZB1 would also be classified as 4th gen as they debuted July 2023 and Kiss Of Life also in July last year. Even BM would be a fourth gen group just by days 😂 I personally find it makes more sense that like music and the trends are like comprised by decades like the western music industry does it. Cause with these generations in K-Pop it‘s so confusing. And I’ve been a fan for nearly three years at this point.
I also think the generations changed or are less clear is because we still have prior ones still active. Especially 3rd gen a lot of groups resigned and are still going strong as a full group and as soloists. Compare when 3rd gen really took over as 2nd gen groups disbanded or slowed down or went into acting and such to when 4th gen was in full swing. They still got records and were sucessful but didnt surpass their 3rd gen still active labelmates and with a lot of idols redebuting in new groups you still have familiar faces in the industryfor longer. The fans also fuel this. Keeping track of records as "the first 4th gen group to ...." etc
Its gonna be interesting now that the first couple of 4th gen groups start to resign or not.
Slightly off topic but I hate how "resigned" and "re-signed" have almost opposite meanings but are written almost exactly the same, I was so confused by the beginning of your comment for a minute lol. First world kpop fan problems
Taeyeon 2nd gen and strong. IU 2nd gen and strong,. Apink, late 2nd gen still active... KARA, 2nd gen reborn...
@Haegemon No one is saying there's no relevant 2nd gen acts anymore, like, we could argue that there's even 1st gen idols who are still popular at least in Korea, but you can't deny that there is a huge difference on how most groups, even the popular ones, were already disbanding or going on "indefinite hiatus" when we were living on the 3rd generation (sure, KARA revived and Taeyeon is one of the most influential celebrities in Korea, but even their groups suffer from big hiatus during that era, and it was pretty recently when they have their reunions). Meanwhile the popular 3rd gen groups are still active, maybe taking longer breaks because of their solo activities, some members are now in different companies or military service for the boy groups, but it's mostly a year or two before they comeback and start doing group activities again.
Not to mention that the biggest kpop acts are still BTS and BLACKPINK. No group from the 4th generation could surpassed them in terms of popularity during their era, like 3rd gen did with the most relevant 2nd gen groups...
@@monkiesbanana321Renewed would have been less confusing to use in this context 😅.
NewJeans is definitely 4th gen. People categorize Lesserafim into 4th gen, so it would make no sense to make them 4th and Newjeans 5th when they debuted the same year just months apart. You could try to say it’s bc of how they made the easy to go viral music trend, but they’re still 4th gen. It’s like how Weki Meki was one of the first groups to do teen crush which is very prevalent in 4th, but they’re still 3rd gen.
Agreed!
Newjeans are 4th generation
Yup!
BoA and 2nd Gen Paved so much for K-pop around the world for the market, and no one is talking about that.
Because they didn’t really pave the way. Yes, they promoted around the world, but kpop wasn’t taken seriously until 2017-2018. It was only seen as a niche genre.
Fact!!@@neb.9489
@@neb.9489kpop was still taken as niche genre.
Besides kpop was still taken as niche genre in their own country too and Boa literally made Kpop mainstream in japan
Paved the way for these artists to be seen as a joke, copies of western artist with the music, styling etc and all the stereotypes that still exist in the GPs mind.....paved the way my ahh
That's because they were a very much still a niche market bless them. They were bravo though and tried they dipped their toes into the water but they didn't persist.
In my mind we're in the latter half of the 4th gen - feel like the term 5th gen has just be thrown round by a couple of companies for the sake of trying to market and distinguish their groups. It's then adopted by the fans of said groups
If you look at some of the key 4th gen groups (Aespa, Stray Kids etc), they're still firmly in their peak, which in my mind indicates we haven't seen enough transition to count it as a new gen yet. Compare this to the transition between 2nd and 3rd gen - when this was happening you saw a real obvious rise and fall, with the 2nd gen groups having longer gaps between comebacks and less popularity in the charts, whilst the 3rd gen groups started to debut and takeover (especially around 2014-15). Feel like until we see that happening it's hard to claim we've entered this next generation.
This makes sense due to the pandemic being 2-3 years in-between, thus making it a longer generation than normal. I will say that 2024 could be a proper first year of gen 5 though, but we'll have to patiently wait and see. As we older gen stans know: You can't tell a gen change when you're in it. It takes years after to kind of establish it.
I agree. I think it's actually the latter half of 4th gen.
Quick video idea: the idol with the parental role, often the leader and one other. Example ateez hongjoon ect
I love this idea....
Irene from Red Velvet, Taeyong from NCT, Jin from BTS and Bang Chan from Stray Kids also fit that.
yes please
i personally see groups that debuted around 2021-2022 as a sort of 4.5 gen because the difference between itzy and nmixx feels similar to the difference between wonder girls and miss A (for me) (this isn't the only reason but its the easiest to explain). i think if i had to call something 5th gen i would put 8turn and tripleS at the front of it (early 2023). i feel like newjeans' music also feels very 5th gen but timewise i would put them in 4.5
(g)i-dle not being mentioned as one of the standouts of 4th gen is criminal
As a Gen 1 fan, it seems that from Gen 3 on, the standardization of 7-year contract has played a HUGE role in the generation shifts & their impact. Back in the 90's, the average contracts were 10 years long, which is precisely why we look back on those generations as longer. Each group is seen as having a shelf life that the companies want to max out, which led to increasingly more predictable trajectories. The shorter modern shelf life leads to behavior like YG basically having Babymon "on deck" for YEARS in preparation for Blackpink's inevitable departure. I think the irony is that the older groups are benefiting from this shift while younger groups struggle more & more each year to gain or maintain a spot at the top. Look at the fairly consistent popularity of groups like TWICE, Red Velvet, EXO, NCT or even SNSD (who are all past their intial contracts) compared to the wobbly state of many younger groups like STAYC or Le Sserafim. Even Newjeans are in a "heavy hate" era-- just a year and change after being beloved at debut. I remember Itzy getting the grand slam of rookie awards & the most views of any girl group debut in the first 24 hours-- by Sneakers, they had a fraction of a fraction of that heat. The feeling of inevitable turnover seems to make groups feel less substantial than they used to... that and the oversaturation within both the industry at large & individual groups (Aespa has a comeback every few weeks) just makes it all feel slightly less special than it used to.
i think it’s the oversaturation of groups plus their focus on appealing to tiktok. it leads to catchy but ultimately forgettable music. people remember songs with stand out vocal moments or stand out lyrics, songs that actually made them feel. i think aesthetics and general vibe are prioritized even more nowadays in kpop over the music. the choruses are gone and there are barely any climaxes in songs. these songs made during 4th and 5th gen will not stand the test of time like songs of previous gens have
seeing as the longevity of groups is expanding, with many 3rd gen groups still being very much active and successful, as well as some older gen shooting their shot again, and obviously the 4th gen groups being still in their peak with no signs of slowing down, making the division by ‘the previous generation is loosing momentum” doesn’t really make sense anymore. other factors have to be the reason for that change.
i think sometimes 4th gen might feel shorter only because of the pandemic. but if you consider stray kids, gidle and even the boyz as 4th gen, then it would have to begin around december 2017 to early 2018! that would make it 6-7 years long! longer than the 5 years of 3rd gen from 2012ish to 2017ish. every generational changed has been marked by different factors, so it’s not really predictable until a noticeable shift is seen in hindsight. for example what i think marks the clear distinction between 3rd and 4th gen is that 3rd gen was kpop starting from “local” and going global, whereas in 4th gen it already was global, so the groups debuted with way bigger international audiences additional to the original usual asian audiences, which comes with its own new challenges that previous generations didn’t have to deal with. personally, i think we’re more in the transition period between 4th gen and 5th, rather than already in the 5th, but only time will tell.
maybe a defining factor of 5th gen will be the popularization of global kpop groups, groups with non asian members such as vcha and katseye. at least that seems to be the trend the companies are pushing for. we’re not there yet, but it could happen
Great analysis!
I think generations are a marketing tool. Let's face it, there are likely no artists that will ever top BTS / Blackpink, so bracketing them off into "third generation" enables kpop companies to say things like "best-selling 4th gen group" etc. Now that 4th gen groups are setting their own milestones, 5th gen has to be created so that these new groups can manufacture their own accomplishments.
Ding ding dinggg !!!! 100% because what r these groups gonna have to their name when bts basically has majority of all records in kpop, Korea, Asia, as a group and even have many many "first artist/act to xyz" to their name.
Fans of these groups need something to latch on and have some semblance of competition with other 4th, 5th ggs/bgs/groups. Plus these labels and companies are just fueling it all because another comment mentioned mnet declaring the start of the 5th gen with some group (sorry forgot the name) ,,,,like who are you to declare a new generation just because you want your artists to bag the "first 5th gen xyz to do/have the most sales/views/streams blablabla" 😭😭😭💀
good point! it makes sense.
@@user-vv7hc7kb5o yes especially since last week when BTS were officially recognised as the most award Global Artists not kpop artist but Global Artists with 1, 400 Music Awards 5 grammy nominations, 31 Guinness world Records. They were on the way to it when they broke the Beatles and MJ's record.
Doubt cuz I remember watching korean variety show that aired in 2017 and they already said about kpop having generation idol
gens existed way before bts and blackpink. why do new kpop fans act like bts and blackpink are the only kpop groups to have ever existed?
Became a fan of kpop in 2008. First I heard of Shinee as kpop but became huge fan of Big Bang. I had heard of Suju but thought they were Chinese, also knew about TVXQ and thought they were Japanese.
2nd gen was a golden age because they were very different from each other and tended to have their own color or strive to have their own personality as a group.
Even 3rd group were okay, but there was way too many groups all at once, all together. This is when their colors started to diminish as a group and vocals started to go downhill after 3rd generation.
Those who came out in this time still have signature sounds.
4th looks like everything is the same, sounds the same. Nothing is too different. Some groups are okay or they are copies of groups that split up due to contracts. Groups are younger, copies of seniors. Because of this the kids don’t develop their own distinctive personalities nor strong vocal talent. If they have vocals they are pushed to the side in order to serve the catchy songs.
5th Gen….to me is irrelevant to me. Boring.
3rd gen also has many oustanding vocal groups tho specially early 3rd gen groups that debuted between 2012-2014 mamamoo, btob exo red velvet but seventeen main vocalist are also very good tho,and despite any críticism to bts not having a strong vocal line they started as a hip hop group and they have one of the Best rap línes in kpop same as big bang, that is very good as well, 4th gen is more performance focus with some groups having one stand out but not anything else like jongho from ateez is one example and ofcourse aespa but they are an sm group so its mostly expected but even them have mostly a lot of rap and Performance focus same with now 5th gen or whatever
I think a really important thing to have in mind is that usually girlgroup generations seem to start a little bit after the bg ones, like the first impactful 2nd gen ggs were wg, kara and gg who debuted in 2007, 3 years after the start of the generation, this happened again in 2014 when rv and mamamoo debuted 2 years after the start of 3rd gen, and ofc with 4th gen gets a little trickier but tbh people started to call a gg 4th gen with itzy, so i would say that either way in 2019 or in 2020 due to the pandemic and the wave of the ggs that came with the new decade the 4th generation of ggs started, i don’t believe in terms of girlgroups we’re in 5th gen, babymonster is the respond yg have for the 4th gen ggs, which they do with each generation and they’re always the last ones, and illit seems so similar to nj and the other ggs of this gen that i don’t believe there is a change yet.
Also generations now feels like a way fans and companys found and use to créate achivements for their favorite groups, but i believe until new groups break records of the old ones we’re in 4th gen, i mean, at least if we talk about girlgroups until 2021-22 3rd gen ggs were the most popular and impactful ones, so start a new generation this soon seems just a little oportunistic, but hey just my opinion, i love seeing other peoples opinions and theories and love the video💕
wasn't the consensus for 4th gen to have started in 2018 with (g)Idle and Stray Kids because their sounds and stylings were completely different and new compared to other previous groups? It would make 3rd and 4th gen the same length
it actually started in the 2nd half of 2017 with weki meki and the boyz
A big stand out group in 4th generation that pushes the envelope, makes political statements on women empowerment, the mysogony in koreas society and recently clearly came out as lgbtq+ allies in an interview is gidle. These themes are also deeply explored in their songs, troughout many of their albums and concepts which are self produced.
Alsoo, they are the first self produced gg that got success with self producing. Soyeon is the only verified KOMCA gg member idol. The only other female idol at all is IU.
It should be mentioned as well since 4th gen broke the only 3 groups are extremely successful troupe. Le sserafim, NJ are also noticable. So in 4th gen it is 6 gg total.
Absolutely agree. And about 3rd gen gg (I don't listen bg). Not to mention Mamamoo (vocal queens) and Dreamcatcher (Rock in the field of pop sound) it's a strange.
@@Santia5a yes and when we are at it kiss of life should be mentioned as well like mamamoo, gidle, kiss of life they also managed to make a name for themselves tough talent, help in the production and a fresh concept, Nobody knows, bad news speaks about school bullying, sa in the mvs
@@moriko-chan1059 yes KoL it's a new gen.
1 gen. Birth of K-pop. Go and sing, if you want.
2 gen. Company start training and investing in promotion. SNSD and Big Bang.
3 gen. Explosion around the world access to social media and CZcams. BTS and BP.
4 gen. Self produced groups + dance challenges. SKZ and (g)i-dle.
5 gen. I don't know yet.
no, there are other female idols with komca credits. moonbyul from mamamoo and miryo from beg have the most writing credits so far. exy from wjsn also writes along with LE from EXID. 3rd gen is when you started seeing more singer songwriter female idols
We are still in the 4th generation. If you can't define the generation then it's still ongoing.
The generations are defined by the shift in the industry.
The first generation was building the foundation of the industry away from the ultra conservative, tightly regulated and controlled music industry to more free expression. They leaned heavily on American and Japanese structures to build their own identity.
The second generation is the expressive generation. The Korean music industry stopped looking towards Japan and America for guidance and started innovating themselves. The sound and look of kpop became more unique and they developed their own identity.
The 3rd generation is the generation of globalization. Kpop spread it's unique style across the world.
The 4th generation is the generation of westernization. The trend is to write songs for the western audience. There's even songs written completely in English nowadays.
There is no 5th generation. It's just fun for fans to say.
@kairiamane3058 The age of the idols don't mean anything. There are older people who debut later like Wanna One's Ji-sung who was 26. Taemin who is a 2nd generation idol and Jimin who is 3rd generation. Things always shift if you give them time. 5 years isn't enough time. I know 5 years is a long time for people younger than 25 because it's a year is a bigger chunk of their lives but 5 years is nothing. It took almost 7 years for the 3rd generation to start to show differences from the 4th.
@@kpopme7327 If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck, it's a duck. Or in this case if it looks like the 4th generation, sounds like the 4th generation and acts like the 4th generation, it's the 4th generation. The only argument that the 5th Gen has begun is that people say it has. Ever other generation had clear differences. That's how we knew that they were different generations but the 4th generation isn't different from the so called 5th. If it isn't different it's the same. I'm willing to die on this hill.
@@kpopme7327not really, there‘s no real difference between 4th gen and the „already started 5th gen“
@@jxstadri personally, it has a different vibe, and if people from the industry know that it is the 5th gen, then it has started
Tracking generation shift is hard but for me, I would looking at the big3 group. If their current groups can overshadowed their predecessor, then there's our generation shift. But it's hard to determine the 3rd and 4th gen cuz all big3 peak in 3rd gen (Exo, Blackpink, Twice). But I feel like most of us can agree that 2018 forward are 4th gen.
Now, to decide 5th gen, there must be big3 groups that can overshadow Aespa and Skz as they are our biggest groups in each big3. If some year, there are big3 groups that surpassed Aespa and Skz, then we're in a complete 5th gen. And by surpassed, I mean in term of hype or award or chart.
2ne1 coming back to show them how it has to be done
I still think a contract length (7 years or so give or take a year or two of overlap) is the best gen splitter. SM or YG’s flagship groups (2NE1 - 2nd, BP - 3rd, BM - 4th) are a pretty good barometer. A subdivision (e.g., 2.5) can be used if you want to split hairs a bit more (like f(x) compared to SNSD).
The biggest reason for the generational shift is simply the fanbase demo. Teens/early 20s is the biggest slice of the growth pie. There are fans of all ages, of course, but fans “age out” getting jobs, families, etc. Since younger fans tend to support groups with similar age members, companies plan accordingly.
Depends on the group. BTS and its members are still going strong even in the military, with a fan base from kids to people in their 80s. I know the person doing this video didn't want to talk about the elephant in the room, but it's a pretty big elephant.
ngl i don't get the difference between 4th and 5th one (if it even started) they're too similar
Like for me personally I see groups like Kiss Of Life, BabyMonster, ZB1, etc. as 4th gen, not necessarily as 5th gen. Cause if 1st gen lasted 11 years, 2nd gen nine, 3rd gen seven, 4th would be five years and 5th gen would then last only THREE whole years. And groups like NewJeans are definitely fourth gen and also don‘t feel like 4.5th gen as some people put it.
Who’s here after K-media said the 6th generation of K-Pop starts next year☝️
The rapid pace of change may prove to be detrimental to K-pop. Many groups are heavily competing with each other in terms of music, branding, and marketing, making it difficult to differentiate between them. As a result, it's hard to pinpoint where we are in terms of generations because the groups tend to look and sound very similar. This lack of distinction diminishes their overall impact. There's nothing wrong with artists representing different decades, as this grants them the opportunity to draw from a wide range of inspiration and cultivate their own unique style. This is how iconic and enduring art is created. Unfortunately, most K-pop idols do not have a distinctive body of work. Many of the newer generation idols may only be remembered for their visual appeal rather than their music, especially if they struggle to transition successfully into post-K-pop careers.
I think that 5th gen will be defined by more concept-based groups with how big kpop has gotten and there's more niches, like with New Jeans. I do think we need to accept that 5th gen is here, and there are some groups that toe the lines. Like G-Idle is 3rd gen but feels 4th gen, and NewJeans is 4th gen but feels 5th gen
5th gen doesn't exist. It was just a marketing technique that led to the term. Thanks, Ayda and Zb1, for thinking you're over the rules.
yes 5th gen exists. you dont decide.
Rules of what? lol please who made u be the one to decide this 😂
Should be a crime to not mention G Idle and izone for 4th gen ggs
with me, i personally see the generations with the 0.5 added. for example, the 1st gen was around the early to late 90s with 90s trends and mostly hiphop, rock, and cutesy pop sounds (and more attention was on groups). then there was a shift around 2002,2003 when we would see more sexy concepts and soloists becoming more popular and even with the camera work there was a difference (1st gen camera work was more "all over the place" while the latter half of that gen had more clear camera quality and stiller movements) (more 2000s trends), this is what i would call the 1.5 gen, leading into the 2nd gen (in which the beginning was going back into groups and heading towards cute and sexy concepts). and i am surprised that baby vox did not get their personal shout out (i did see them in the vid btw) bc of how much influence they have had in the industry despite going through so much (and yes i get that bbv were not as popular as s.e.s. or finkl) baby vox debuted with a female warrior concept, preaching for feminism and calling out the toxic behavior of cheating by men (which was so controversial that it was banned from music shows at that time (and they were the first gg that were categorized as kpop too, july 1997), normalized women rapping (their main rapper being one of the first female kpop rappers who wrote her own lyrics and even having a full english rap despite not being fluent in the language), brought kpop to china and garnered a huge following there around 1999 and performing in other countries, even continents such as north america and australia. paved for the girl crush concept during one of their prime times in their careers (when cute concepts were the norm for ggs), having belly button piercings (sk was still more conservative around this time), having a song so popular that it was the anthem for the sk president of 2002 and olympics, bring in more androgyny and tomboy looks (one of their members got attention for their short haircut and got attention for being "boyish"), talked about heartbreak and the aftermath of breakups in their songs, etc.
tldr: i belive we are around the 4.5 heading towards the 5th gen & that baby vox done a lot in their contribution to kpop that i wanna yap abt it :3
I think the reason why generations has become shorter is because comanies and fans alike wants to debut the next big thing that changes the course of kpop from now on. Everyone says "this group will become the fifth gen leader" because it's already clear they could not compete with already established groups from the fourth gen, or at least its not the target. Im safe to say that at least now it became a second phase of the fourth gen, because some early top groups are not as relevant as they were, and newer groups are being on trend since they yave fresher sounds and concepts.
I like to think that we're currently in gen 4.5
TLDR
I would like to add something i have noticed in the generation changing discourse.
As you seen the video, dear yoongi explains it perfectly how generation change and why they exist and so on. Another reason i think it's getting dangerously shorter is because of the western music market and TikTok dominating the world in a very interesting way and since last two generations want to desperately cater to the western audience (i.e. global audience bc western mainstream music is everywhere)
The changes of genres, saturation and Concentration of those genres, concepts, themes and fashion. Everything has become copying homework. It feels boring. It doesn't appeal to people (specifically the kpop stans who entered in kpop community at 1st,2nd & 3rd gens) because kpop lost its charms that it had before despite using same old western inspired genres and what not.
Every group had something unique to offer but kpop in general had a unique appeal because of teh stupid lyrics, interesting instrumentals, lots of people in group, funny people, vairty shows being unhinged and so on. The list is very big. But now idols have strictly become a product and each product requires excellent and detailed branding. This includes them being shutted up by the company and hyper controlled in their mannerisms and words etc. Like being less himan and more idols. Wonyoung is a perfect example. She has been doing it since ahe was so young. Now she an adult but still quite young and she keeps her idol persona intact properly. We can clearly see that she keeps a strict standard for herself as an idol. Not to mention the unnecessary hate she gets. But any naive person is gonna say that's her real self is absolutely wrong. Her own standards are exactly what her company wants from her to keep so she brings in lots of money.
Which is why she's a natural born idol as the industry describes her to. Now there's nothing wrong with being good at your job but when an industry treats you as a product and sells you as like that then what it does to idol's mind is unimaginable. Just because she doesn't share much and only shares her confidence with her fans and beyond doesn't mean she is not having a difficult time as a person.
Same thing applies to so many of these big idols as well. Especially from 4th &5 th gen.
What i mean is, east Asian music culture especially the one for youth is designed in a way where taking criticism is just not a thing and when fandoms see their favs get good or bad criticism they get highly vigilant and offended as if tehya re the ones getting it. Tahst because industry sells these idols in such an inhumane way where they are products taht make their fans feel good about themselves. Therefore these products (idols ) should always be perfect because customer-nim wants or desires to be perfect themselves but can't be due to xyz reasons (capitalism pressure, expectations from elders, social pressure, rigid roles etc )
Which is also why we see international kpop fans(non- east asian ones) generally consume kpop in a different way in comparison to east asina fans. And we express this distinguishable thing in different ways on thw internet like "why are these k-engenes so miserable, why can't female dancers dance with engenes", why are chinese fans like this. Bro Korean fans are so toxic. Why are japanese fans boycotting xyz over this,like get a life etc.
Do you get what i am saying despite my broken English?
Like we can clearly see idols has a very product, no human type of treatment from these companies when their music is being sold. This doesn't mean international fans aren't annoying like this at all. But this is especially prominent due to a culture reasons in east Asia. I woudl like to refer anyone who's reading my comment to Aini's video about east asians loneliness and consuming such things in an interesting way that is unique to them.
Moving on, the consumption forbthe sake of just music and art is decreasing horrendously as well. Lot's of young new kpop fans cna easily be obsessed over any gro doing the bare minimum because being gen z and alpha is hard in this reality that sucks. We are depressed more than ever and kpop capitalises on that the same way it used to do it on east asian youth depression.
Well, capitalism ruins everything and now its late stage capitalism. Kpop is no exception for this. Our complicity and ignorance plays a big & invisible part in destruction of some regions of the third world.
I know it was really long but i feel we should be a bit aware of something we enjoy without any worries. It takes away from problems to create more problems in the bigger picture.
Long story short everything is connected. And kpop is being affected by it all.
Ive noticed every time a new generation starts, theres a group in the previous generation that blows up and defines their predecessors. For example, 2018 is when 4th gen started and BTS and Blackpink blew up. They defined 4th gen despite being 3rd gen which started a girl/boy crush wave and later on more english releases. NewJeans debuted right before 5th gen, blew up with their Y2K style and defined easy listening, brighter music.
you forgot the factor of the rinse and repeat which people get bored of very quickly and rather see their groups garner the attuide of allowing the artist and fans to evolve they they just rinse and repeat so the life span of most groups is getting shorter and shorter especially for those groups who don't have much input in what they put out.
I became a fan in the transition between 4th and 5th gen. Late 2023
The only "concern" for international fans should be their own mental health. Kpop is just entertainment essentially aimed at Asian audiences. There's almost nothing to think about. There are no "important lyrics", it's just dance music, and the idols' personal lives are in a totally different culture. Just get a grip.
There are plenty of kpop songs that deal with more serious subject matter or where lyrics are important. And there are plenty of slower songs too, it's not all dance music.
I wholeheartedly believe that 5th gen is here and New Jeans is the first 5th gen group. Hear me out... I feel like ever since then, like you said, there's been this influx of this sort of Tiktok friendly music. Most songs now kinda of have y2k aesthetic even if it's different from their usual vibe. Such as XO from Enhypen, Blush from Woo!Ah! or Touch from Kateye. I love these songs and they're on my playlist but, you know, I feel like this trend came about only in 5th gen. To be fair, I only started truly stanning Kpop like roundabout March 2023 and I'm still new to Enhypen, so maybe there's something I'm missing. If so please educate me. I just really feel like the mass production of groups like New Jeans and Illit is something only really in 5th gen hence why it is its own generation. However, there is an argument to be made that groups like XG and Babymonster couldn't care less so clearly there are other genres and concepts out there. TWS is killing it with their cute concept which is similar to y2k but still individual... so I don't know... any other opinions?
That makes no sense. Wouldn’t Lesserafim also have the be 5th gen?
Newjeans is securely 4th gen, just the shift in 4th gen. Think about it, aespa only debuted two years prior in 2020, and 4th gen was two when aespa debuted. It makes sense 4th gen went on for at least six years rather than just four from 2018 to 2022. Also, katseye isn't kpop nor do they have a signature sound yet. They said they'll be doing soft and strong type songs, which is why their ep is called sis, soft is strong.
Yeah, I think that’s a nice way to think of it. New Jeans as being the shift, I think that makes a lot of sense. Now, I’m rethinking my stance… If that’s the case, I wonder which group really is the first fifth gen? But I actually really like the way you phrased it, thank you. Also, good point, I guess Katseye isn’t technically K-pop and thank you for telling me more about their concept. Hopefully, what I said makes sense, at least a little bit, but yeah, yours makes a lot more. 😁
@@LoveYourself97846 you're welcome glad I could help! I wanna say that Boynextdoor is the first 5th gen boy group, and the debuted May 30th last year. Adya is the first 5th gen girl group and I'm pretty sure they debuted in the first half of May in 2023 as well. But these groups weren't given the "first 5th groups" title. The first groups to called 5th gen were Kiss of Life and Zerobaseone. However, Boynextdoor and Adya debuted first so they are the first 5th groups I believe
Thank you!!! I’m glad this didn’t turn into, like, a screaming match and there was actually an healthy discussion! ☺️😊😁. Have a nice day… or night…. You know what, just have a nice life, you deserve it 👋🏾 ❤️
I think 5th Gen will be longer than 4th Gen, just purely because 4th Gen is basically "the year before the pandemic, the years during the pandemic." 2023 was the first year, in Korea, that is "post" pandemic, so I think that's why 4th gen was so short and why I think 5th gen will be longer (I think it'll be the same length as a common kpop contract: 7 years).
I just wanted to ask a genuine question, if 2019 is the first year for 4th gen, what are 2018 debuts like gidle fromis9 Izone stray kids loona and Ateez? Also the boyz, since they debuted in the December of 2017.
I also think newjeans was a pretty solidified group by the end of 2022 (esp. because of ditto + omg the following January) I can’t really see them as fifth gen, especially debuting with the same rookie bunch as IVE.
Wonderful video, I just wanted to spew some thoughts for no big reason lol.
i feel like most people consider those 2018 debuts you mentioned as 4th gen
@@shuu-wasseo Yep :D that’s why I wanted to ask her about it. That would make 3rd gen look like 2012ish-2017ish which is oddly short, but adding 2018 wouldn’t really work either.
you didn’t mention wonder girls, a jyp group, even though they were also super popular in korea during the 2nd gen, and idols still cover their songs to this day (tell me and so hot). i think there hasn’t been enough time that has passed since 4th gen debuted for me to consider 5th gen as a valid classification. there hasn’t been a significant shift in music style and concepts for me, compared to in the past when you could really see the difference between 1st and 2nd or even 2nd and 3rd gens. i guess gens are getting shorter though bc companies keep debuting new groups sooner than in the past and manage multiple groups at the same time now
One thing I think is cause people have the whole you can’t be a ‘multi’ thing people will only focus on the group they Stan and being honest 3rd gen still run the roost so when bts or bp and others aren’t present/releasing people arent fully invested in what the younger gens are doing (cause w prior gens you were forced to move onto the next cause of disbandments)
Why thres no WONDER GIRLS in 2nd gen thye are so popular back then NOBODY ere are so massive and they introduce KPop in America if only Jype didnt push them to go abroad/international so early in their career Im glad my girls TWICE here then and still now are vey active
i don’t think newjeans is 5th gen just solely because they debuted alongside (in the same year as) other 4th gen groups such as nmixx, le sserafim etc
I came in right at the end of 2nd fading into third. ahn jaehyo drew me in with his face on the thumbnail for nalina but I was kind of dragged down with Big Bangs Blue, Bad Boy, and Fantastic Baby. 2ne1, suju and miss a and been there since the beginning of exo got 7 twice. An oldie kpopper.
3rd gen started when exo took over big bang...4th gen started so they won't compete in the equation with bts but bts and seventeen still on top so? how can we have 5th gen when 4th gen is still trying to prove themselves
That's what I was thinking -- generations shift when there is a clear passing of the torch.
BTS and its members are still crushing it even in the military. Seventeen and Stray Kids are massive powerhouses, so how are we talking about 5th gen already?
I feel like one key difference between 1st and 2nd gen was that there were way more solo artists. They were in fact, dominant in the kpop industry.
In 2nd gen in was kind of half and half, but from 2rd gen onwards groups dominated.
SES always the first song (Dreams) I introduce to anyone new to K-pop. They can be a rap fan or metal head but when that ethereal sound shows up they get it. SES Dreams was a catalyst.
I remember there was a lot of debate if Dreamcatcher was 3rd or 4th generation. But it says they are 3rd generation because 4th gen began in 2018. While 3rd gen ended in 2017-18. I'm happy they are 3rd gen cause they really bring unique style.
I became a K-pop stan during third gen around early 2018
i became a kpop stan in 2017 i was stanning 3rd gen groups but i believe 2017 to be the start of 4th gen i ended up being a mostly 4th gen stan and tbh the thought of us being in 5th gen doesn't register in my mind but i'm def on the side of newjeans 4th gen bc they debuted in 2022 they just inspired the next gen
It's a good thing. With the current model the companies had an urge to debut new people instead of caring for their most experienced artists.
Newjeans is 4th generation.
For 1st gen gg there was one interesting group "Baby V.O.X."
baby v.o.x. mention!!!
its so weird because on the kpopping website they put all of the 5th gen groups in the 4th gen category, idk if its a mistake but they keep adding all of the new groups in there
I think “Gen 5” began right near the end of 2023 and I think 4 the Gen started at 2018
I originally became a kpop Stan in 2013. So I would say third generation. The vrey first group that I staned was SHINee. I got back into kpop back in 2021 with me Stanning BTS. I now stan 10+ groups and a few soloists.
All the 1st gen fans be like, man things have really changed a lot
bahala kayo basta ako ultimate ko per gen
2ND GEN : 2NE1 SNSD SISTAR
3RD GEN : BLACKPINK TWICE
4TH GEN : (G)-IDLE
5TH GEN: BABYMONSTER KISS OF LIFE
10:49 I guess 5th gen would be 3 years then and 6th only 1 year LOLOL
I’m not sure if you have done this, or if you would want to do a video on this since as it is a sensitive topic but you are like one of the only creators I think could do it respectfully.
Would you do a video on Body Shaming with both fat shaming and skinny shaming?
I’ve noticed both have gotten bad on social media recently and I haven’t seen any videos on skinny shaming in particular. I’ve thought a lot about this over the years and I think someone needs to say something before fans or idols are hurt.
You forgot to include Apink in your list of second gen K-pop group idols
You all forget the 2nd gen got kpop out of Korea in the first place without them kpop won't be like it is now
They definitely spread it in Asia.
Exactly. How she didn’t mention that is a failure anytime discussing generations in kpop.
noun: generation; plural noun: generations
1. all of the people born and living at about the same time, regarded collectively.
"one of his generation's finest songwriters"
Similar: age age group peer group cohort stage of life the average period, generally considered to be about thirty years, in which children grow up, become adults, and have children of their own.
"the same families have lived here for generations"
Kpop marketing trying to sell y2k concept change = New Generation😂
Also, the number of people getting bored with y2k is already growing.🤣
what's the song in your intro and outtro? I love it sm
Well, I do understand your need to add 5th generation, I never believed it to be started and I don't believe that it's started yet since I don't have any source or evidence or anything that I can trust to know fully if it's started or not, because there was no proper evidence or anything to say that it's started since with previous generations you get more of an idea when they started by googling. With 5th generation and people saying it started in 2023, who said that it did? where's the proof? what groups are the first in the 5th generation, since previous generations have groups that could be labled as the first of their generation? After hearing people say that it started in 2023, I thought about and still think about "who said that it did?, because I've never seen it". Many people have come to conclusion that it started in 2023, but most of these people who have come to this conclusion won't have a proper answer to why they believe 5th generation has started in 2023, and just probably believe it because they saw others say it, and was like "it must be true since people say it" without thinking for themselves. I'm not an anti-5th generation refusing to believe it's going on, I just want actual proof that I can believe in to know that "oh, 5th generation is definitely going on". That's why I still believe 2023 to be 4th generation, because I found nothing factual to trust in yet.
Give me proof that 5th generation don't started.
welp there was mnet at the beginning of 2023 with the airing of boys planet sharing in articles that they want to make "the top 5th gen group"..I was quite hesitant as well but I think as more outlets started making headlines abt 5th gen, I just accepted as many other people that 5th gen started
@@lungulavinia I don't trust Mnet. They're far from being trusted. They literally have rigged survival shows like produce. I've found it funny that people believe in 5th gen starting because "Mnet said it", when Mnet have shown how un-trustworthy they are.
I still think kiss of life is more 4th gen coded than 5th gen, illit & baemon are 5th gen though
SUPER JUNIOR TVXQ ARE THE BEST
WHY DO THEY DO GENERATIONS? WE DO NOT DO THAT IN AMERICA. ALSO MANY AMERICANS VIEW PSY AS MAKING KPOP KNOWN IN THE USA WITH HIS GANGNAM STYLE SONG, DANCE AND VIDEO!!! EVEN SOME AMERICA ARTIST USED SOME KPOP DANCERS IN THEIR VIDEOS. I AM A BABY BOOMER WHO LEARNED ABOUT KPOP FROM PSY.
Please speak clearly. Ease up on the vocal fry.