Re-Grinding a Lathe Spindle Nose
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- čas přidán 23. 10. 2022
- Instagram: mr_crispin
In this video I tackle an 'on lathe' grinding operation designed to regain proper spindle nose geometry.
The machine is a Harrison 190 and the grinding unit is a Dumore 44 Tool Post Grinder.
no attention to the face of the nose?
It's in clearance by about 1mm, I can skim it with a turning tool if I ever get concerned.
Ah ah! I was looking for just this question. Was wondering if there might be burrs interfering with the fitment considering the beating it's had. Probably no problems with a 1mm clearance.
Yes I should have mentioned it
@@MrCrispinEnterprises its all part of some clever plan isnt it?
I was looking forward to some final run out readings!!
Demonstrates absolute cleanliness required when changing chucks to avoid the damage to the spindle nose incurred on your lathe by the previous abusers.
Great outcome.
Absolutely - any apprentice caught napping on the cleaning job at RR will get the pleasure of watching the unedited footage of this operation before being sent to bed without dinner 🤭
People scoff at foil hats, but they actually have one verifiable positive property....(as l expect you discovered wearing your shiny chapeau for a few minutes). They are incredibly warm.
In my alpine adventuring days, I used to have a Francital ski suit. It cost a bloody fortune but it was the warmest winter clothing I've ever owned. (Which is saying a lot with our Canadian winters). Why was it so good? It had only ~5 mm of loft, but within that was a layer of "Texolite" - which at the time, was a textile made of aluminized polyester film.
It was amazing - you'd feel your own heat radiated back to you even as you donned the jacket. I wore that suit for years until it was so embarrassingly threadbare I had to retire it. I haven't been as warm in winter since.
Alas, Francital got out of the recreational clothing market long ago...
Yes, I had to take it off after 5 mins as I was getting a little hot headed!
Yeah, but with the electrical tape hat band, it looked way cool. Chicks dig that! 😌😎
I was watching this while eating and nearly launched my dinner across the room when you appeared with that thing on your head . Excellent
LoL
I so thoroughly enjoy your videos that I think I could actually watch you plant trees! Love the humor as well!
High praise!
I now want to see Crispin plant trees just to find out - I can imagine him making this quite entertaining :)
@@mumblbeebee6546 czcams.com/video/dBzi0GbnBtk/video.html
@@mumblbeebee6546 czcams.com/video/dBzi0GbnBtk/video.html. Hence the comment.
I think I remember a video you did of planting trees at your folks place. It was entertaining.
Wonderful content as always Mr.Crispin and I thoroughly enjoyed the big band and I'm so pleased it came together for you in the end. But isn't always the case when you are trying to get a job done there is never enough power. Looking forward to the one. Thanks again greatly appreciated it.
Interesting indeed, Mr. Crispin. Thanks for having gathered up the courage both to try this and to record this! 👍
Well Done Mr Crispin. Another good job done.
Well done Crispin, that spindle nose has certainly seen some abuse, it makes you wonder what goes through some people's minds when loading a chuck based on the size and depth of some of those dings! Cheers, Jon
Indeed. The lathe came out of a College!
@@MrCrispinEnterprises That explains it. Guess their instructor isn't scary enough. (:
I find it very interesting and would enjoy seeing more. Thank you Mr. Crispin
Another great video Crispin and again it’s showing how in engineering you have to think outside the box and make your own tools to do the job as off the shelf items are rarely job accurate.
See you at work for more challenges 👍🏻
Now we've cleared up who isn't your partner, we're all left wondering who is!
Very nicely done Mr. Crispin, a fine line indeed.
I was fortunate enough to find a tool post grinder to go with my old Sheldon and Atlas lathes. This was an informative look into the tasks it is appropriate for. Your style, doing and describing, reminds me of MrPete222, it is the fastest way to really cover a topic. I have been very pleased with the improvement in my 3 jaw chuck after regrinding it.
I use magnets to hold the cloths on. Love the idea with the elastic band for sealing the back of the chuck, very professional, but then you are! Excellent outcome, and another must watch for engineers everywhere!
Phil
Thanks
Thank you Crispin for an exceptionally interesting video. I learned so much. 👏👏👍😀
That was excellent MrCrispin. After watching this video I would be comfortable doing the same job.
Great job. Looking forward to the before and after inspections.
Another nice video. I'd love a workshop like that one day.
I have heard of spindle grinding before, though I had never seen it done. Thank you.
SUCCESS! Good job. From the pattern on the face it looks like the wheel axis was slightly downwards (no cross hatch), would like to see an indicator traverse across the face. I think those D5 pins are adjustable so you could have always adjusted them to the new depth if needed(if I recall).
What really surprised me is just how soft that spindle nose is to sustain such deep damage.
Wonderful presentation - a pleasure to watch !
Thanks
Ive seen several of your videos and your a very clever and skilled person. Cheers
Thanks
Simply awesome. I love your dedication and perseverance!
Thanks
Hello Mr. Crispin,
Interesting video and good to hear the lesson learnt once the job was done.
Take care.
Paul,,
Thanks for the interesting video. I think that was a bit stressful at the halfway point! Good point about not taking too much off the taper - they have a habit of being deceptive. A good job done. Helped me to appreciate the effectiveness of this kind of attachment design.
Excellent job!!!
A great job Mr Chrispin! That spindle nose has been through the wars certainly. Hardly a tool room lathe!
Nicely done sir!
I like the way you define a course of action by saying ". . . otherwise I will incur an error". Much better than saying (or thinking) "that will probably be good enough" or something similar, as some amateur workshop chaps might do.
You are a professional in these matters Sir, and that really counts for me and many of your fans. Thank you for adhering to the "proper" way!
"Never incur an error" will be my mantra in the workshop from now on!
Thanks that's very kind
Great job. You make it look easy. Having watched I’m almost brave enough to do a test piece and finally get around to making a Hardinge taper copy to be able to move Hardinge chucked parts to my BS-0.
Well done for getting it all ground back to good.
Thanks
Nicely done Sir
Nice one Mr Crispin 🤠 👍🏻
Nice work, and a iesyimonial to your endurance, enjoyed, cheers!
Well done.
Nice grinder!
Excellent work ! The Colchester at work needs this treatment but it lives mainly with a 4 jaw Chuck on it so less of an issue
Excellent. I'm looking forward to the internal grinding.
Fantastic episode 👍👍😎👍👍
The beanie, that's commitment to the gag 😄
Excellent stuff! I'm really look forward to seeing how much (or little) runout there is on the back plate and chuck when its all finished. I'm hoping to have a new lathe shortly and maybe its something to check before putting into use for the first time. The chinese are not known for sorting out the little things on some of their machines. As Stefan says, they are a kit of parts.
Just and fyi .....most new equipment come with a comprehensive inspection sheet that provides pretty much ALL details specific to the motion accuracies. If you have the capabilities (precision measuring tools) it would be prudent to check what you can and compare your findings.
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The hat gave me a good chuckle, thank you.
Got the job done successfully, explained professionally. Always make a profit watching your videos. Thanks very much for sharing your experience and expertise with us.
You are creative dude keep it up
I've ground a few spindle noses in exactly the same way but I had the advantage of an old hand looking over my shoulder on the first one. My mentor's contribution was to quantify initial conditions and making progress checks using a dial indicator.
Grind the taper first. Tram the grinder spindle to sweep a plane radial to the lathe spindle axis (as you probably did but didn't show.)
Offer up the gage and note the side play with a dial indicator. Depth mike from the end face to the registration surface. Knowing the side play and working the taper triganometry gives you the stock to be removed from the registration face to obtain a flush fit. Proceed, cup dressing the wheel face from time to time, taking side play and depth mike progress checks til you obtain a flush fit and then a bit further to obtain the 0.001" to 0.002" draw.
The US standard governing spindle noses for lathes is USAS B5.9 - (1967) (Reaffirmed 2004) Available from the American Society of Mechanical Engineers. In it are detailed drawings of every version of US standard spindle noses including small parts. The Metric world standard is much the same differing in small details - but check! These standards are available for a fee (mine cost $35 in 2014) from the parent society. Pay the money! It's cheaper than screwing up out of ignorance.
Your remarks on protecting the machine from abrasive dust cannot be over-emphasized. Hysterical care in protecting the machine from flying abrasive dust and a careful sequential dismantling of the shrouding with a thorough clean-up thereafter is only common sense. I'd also recommend cleaning/servicing the wipers.
Good work, well illustrated.
Thanks. The set up is shown in the video called 'setting a tool post grinder'
@@MrCrispinEnterprises Thanks. I found it last night - the series leading up to the spindle nose grind in fact.
Yes indeed. Hard rigid steel items are literally made of rubber on the micro scale and the amount of droop from gravity is roughly calculable if some simplifying assumptions are made and some basic math employed. I've used the very same demonstration (inverting a mag. base and DTI mounted on a short stiff length of square tube) to demonstrate to my apprentices the perils of sweeping diameters from horizontal spindles. That and your application of trade math, geometry, physics etc make your presentations most informative. Machine shop work aint just cranking handwheels and shoveling chips. The most important phase of part manufacture is the initial planning and calculation before the first chip. I'd recommend many of your videos as required viewing for machinist and tool maker apprentices.
I discovered your videos only a few days ago. It's been most pleasent and informative browsing my way through them.
Many thanks
Hi Forrest, glad you're well !!!
Good to hear you are still alive Forrest Addy.
Well done. I have D1-8 spindle on my lathe and i think that you can adjust those pins in and out before putting allan screws.
Got to get me one of those grinders, a tad bigger with AC motor for less noise.
Found the subject very interesting and very well explained
Thanks
We are all very proud of you.
Many Thanks!
The spindle looks just like new, cheers
love watching this stuff
Thanks
Great video. Thanks!
Great job.!
Hi Mr Crispin, When I reground the D1-3 taper on my Boxford 11-30 I made a gauge which gave me a reading of how much to take off the flat face once I'd tickled up the taper. It saved a lot of time. As you said you don't need to take a lot off the taper to mean you have to take a lot off the flat face. My gauge is a piece of round steel with a parallel hole through which contacts the taper about half way down. Three micrometer heads are zeroed with the gauge flat on a surface plate. I calculated the distance they needed to project to all contact the flat face with the same reading and then checked it against a D1-3 lathe at work. It was bob-on. The taper on my spindle was fine but the flat face wasn't. I took the minimum off the taper, checked with my gauge and then ground the flat face the difference shown on the gauge.
Thank you very much Mr Crispin for another video.. We are also following your channel in the Netherlands, and some of us even have wife's. Can you imagine. Hope to see some loco work soon,. Loads of thumbs up from the colleague's and myself. Pleas keep going this way ! Ps/we are building a horwich crab in 5" gauge, and we'll enjoy it. But of coarse struggling (but managing) with imperial sizes. Keep up and thanks again!
Thanks for your comment. Cheers from the UK
Maybe it took longer because you cleaned up more of the taper, but that time can never be replaced. So don't regret it!
A cleaner and better result was achieved.
There's nothing wrong with striving for perfection if you can afford the time.
You are a very skillful man great content and and some good humor in this and all your video
Thanks
Chuckle chuckle. The toothbrush banter quality.
Your hat skills rock.
seems pretty much ok, nice work
Impressive video. Thank you.
This is a testament to your patience Mr Crispin,nice outcome.👍👍
Great video. You explain things very clearly. I feel I'd be confident doing this with my Harrison if I needed to fix it. However I feel embarrassed by people feeling the need to know who Billy is.
Surely if they watched your videos they would have picked up by now who he is!!!!
The rest is none of their business. Looking forward to your next installment. 👍
Very interesting, I wondered how much you could remove to clean up the taper without having to take too much off the back to maintain the correct relationship. A really excellent explanation of the camlock system too. I expect that next you will be using a different wheel and cleaning up the spindle internal jarno taper (or whatever it is).
quite interesting! Thank you!
Great video.bgreat close up action
fantastic video - thank you!
Super done
Fascinating, thank you. Actually having watched Wes nearly get run over by a car, I was terrified all the way through this.
I am surprised that you did not take deviation measurements before and after, using a tenth dial indicator.
Great works and excellent video!!
Thanks for sharing Sir.
I knew it was significantly out before, and now I know it's as good as I can get it!
@@MrCrispinEnterprises …and that here is one of the hallmarks of a professional! Knowing where to push for another magnitude of resolution or another .1% of speed etc. - and where not to 😊
Thanks! I think I need to do something similar and have an old dumore i picked up used.
That truly was interesting.
Thanks
More videos Mr Crispin !!!
Now I see the advantage of an L1 spindle. They are so hard to change the chuck never comes off and nobody ever dings the nose!
LoL
Hello good Sir, recently stumbled upon your channel and must say what a smashing place to frequent. I recently aquired a harrison 140 being inspired by that mechanic that pi*** about Mr doubleboost.
Thanks
Excellent results there. Given the shallow taper, not surprising you had to take a lot off the back, but the results look to be worth the effort you've put in. I'm going to be making a vertical head for my milling machine, which is going to mean grinding bearing seats onto a spindle, and grinding the inside of the cone. I'm kinda carking it over that.
Great video demonstration and explanation cheers. I'm surprised that the internet warriors haven't given you grief about working on a lathe with a full sleeve overall, must've taken the week off.
alas ...i cant put a lathe in my fourth floor flat, i fear it would end up in my neighbours first floor flat!
Great video Mr.Crispin. Love the accent... reminds me of listening to Dick Van Dyke's voice when I watched Mary Poppins as a young boy. Love it! Thank you for sharing and don't pay any attention to the trolls. Great content my friend!
Thanks
Nice work and you're right about shallow tapers, doesn't take much to get it to seat way further back. Also i think you could just wind in the cam bolts another turn if you had to get agressive on the face - the gauge line of them might be below surface but I reckon they'd still work
Excellent refurbishment of the spindle nose, its certainly had some abuse in its previous life.
Amazing how far minuscule amount of prussion blue spreads, can also be used on the handle of someone's car, should the owner unfortunately incur your rath, yes I have done once to great affect.
Great job on lessons learned, true engineering science.
Thanks for sharing Mr Crispin.
Best regards John
Thanks
Not sure what happened with CZcams, but I posted a very positive comment about your outstanding emphasis on protection of your bedways specific to the grinding you were about to do .....but I see it did not get registered for some reason.
I posted the comment BEFORE I watched the entire video ....which was excellent, again, specific to the fitting between the taper and the spindle back face.
So here is my comment again.
Let's see what happens.
.
Thanks. Got it.
Maybe it's because I worked hard to pay for all of my tools and lathes (I have two), but I take extra care to clear any debris or chips when swapping chucks. I make sure there is nothing in between the spindle and whatever I'm mounting, not just for concentricity, but to avoid the type of damage that you just removed. Nice job btw. Very well done based on your Prussian blue.
Ownership is surely one of the differences, and Crispin reports that this lathe is ex-college so there’s that… ;)
But there’s also the real-life pressure of having to make money (or make a lesson fit) and something’s got to give.
Agree with all the points above plus the idea of understanding. I expect learners at the college didn't understand the effects that the swarf was having.
i have done dozens of these. the simple way is remove .003 from the back face first then do the tapered spindle surface to diameter using the calibrated master ring. also i usually grind the nose end and mark it with the rework date. note that this will not fix bad bearings as some think it will,
Nice toss boss
I came across this video and found it very interesting and informative. Maybe it will interest you, because it’s a history of Rolls Royce and the developments leading up to the Merlin engine.
Big fan :) keep up the great work.
I miss the ml7 a Bit 😂 but im sure you wont give it up
Given that it's a shallow taper, I was a bit worried that you'd have to grind that surface to the other side of town.
Not only will the aluminium foil keep debris out, the alien mind probes will definitely have a hard time accessing your personal hard drive 😂
LoL
It’s not the mind probe that worries me -the rectal probes have me scared stiff though 😂😂
@@ianbertenshaw4350 Mmmmm it's funny to think just what turns some people on.😉
I have found when cutting shallow tapers it is safer to measure depth cut by table left/right and not the cross slide. That way you don't end up running out of room on an immovable feature
I like watching your video's, so technical and skilful showing off your engineering prowess. One thing though, any chance you could wear a clean shop coat? I've never seen a dirty Rolls Royce emblem before, outrageous. Good content though. Thanks for posting.
So satisfying to watch, and interesting too. Did I mention entertaining?! Lord Reith would have given you a spot (just before closing time, given the niche content, but still!). As always: thank you!
Thanks
Thanks for another great video, it's nice to see how to do these things in reality in a home shop rather than in the perfect world. If you fancy doing a video on grinding wheels that'd be great, I know enough to be careful but not enough to know the best approaches for dressing, when it's safe to use a damaged wheel, safety testing a wheel etc etc etc.
Also I'm sorry you felt the need to cover your first point, yes people with be interested (it's human nature) but you shouldn't feel like you should cover these points.
I don't know how anyone could mistake Billy for anyone but your brother. You guys look so much alike it is obviously your brother.
I did find this video interesting and enjoyed learning the process & I don’t own nor have access to use a lathe.
BTW great brother joke in the beginning addressing the owner of the TBs in your pocket. 😅 it got an evil laugh out of me.
I actually have a container full of used toothbrushes in my shop. I use them more often than one would think.
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Monarch lathes on spindle rebuilds, hard chromes the old spindle and regrinds the bearing mounts, last grinding the spindle nose/internal taper in place in those new Timken type zero taper roller bearings. The bearings have errors that are marked as high spots, regular production of spindles is going to have small errors also. Manufacturers of precision spindles inspect the components and often juggle the bearings high spots on inner and outer races to compensate for component errors, then finish off with a light grind of the spindle face and taper. This is why if a spindle for any reason is disassembled and reassembled will most often not run true as before. The only meaningful tip I have is if the spindle has to be removed, mark the spindle shaft and inner race locations and outer race locations so as they can be returned as close as possible. A factory spindle rebuild is over $15000. Grinding the spindle in place is the only option. Great video of the worst nightmare of a problem.
Good information, thanks
The stress of did I just destroy my machine look on your face😬 glad it all worked out
That grinding job looks good. One thing though? Did you pickup any radio frequencies through your fillings? Hence the special hat?
LoL
Love the professional test of the stone😂 Nice work. Thanks for the nice video.
Mads from Denmark
NICE JOB!! I thought the first cut on the tapper was plenty. Live and learn.
You could very well be correct and he did make that point at precisely 12:50. This detail was most certainly overlooked.
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Nice hat!