Absolutely completely insane that Ocean Gate could hear their pressure chamber tearing apart on every dive and they didn’t immediately abort the design and restart from scratch.
I would have said ideally there wouldn't have been any snaps/pops etc. coming from the hull. Every one represents a small breakage in the structure, some flaw from manufacturing. However, that level of perfection might be unrealistic. With a sufficient (necessary) margin of safety you could cycle it (dive) unmanned and ensure there weren't too many pops/cracks or "adjustments"... But then, I wouldn't want to have *any* ongoing "accustic events" on subsequent dives. Those represent ongoing, *accumulating* damage, not a one-time settling-in. I believe you are correct, it was insane to continue using it, knowing the structure was weakening with every cycle. A catastrophic failure was a question of when, not if.
from watching this aluminium is just a little bit weaker than carbon fibre but it dont suddenly give way and its lighter and cheaper than titanium . id build my sub out of aluminium
@@PIlotrcm They also said in their message that they were listening to Under Pressure by David Bowie and Queen and Down Down deeper and Down by Status Quo on their music system
@@philipstaite4775Note that Titan did have its whole pressure hull replaced before. The hull that imploded is actually the second hull of that vehicle, not the first.
Same here. I've been researching all about carbon fiber and the construction of that vessel. Makes total sense once you research the shape of how submersibles should be, the size, the materials, xcetera
@@michaelyemariamlij2633 When you go over a broader scope of material options, I have wondered about doing more stainless steel for submarines. It seems you get the right stainless steel mix in there and it has some very good properties for a fraction of the price of other materials. SpaceX's Starship is made with a stainless steel alloy for different reasons and likely with different optimizations than what you would want for a submarine, but when you watch how much the structure of Starship over-performed in the 04/20 launch and they couldn't get the rocket to self-destruct, instead a massive structure cartwheeling through the air at multiple mach speeds while venting propellant through holes blown in the side of the rocket from the abort charges going off and after tumbling for a while, the venting propellant finally ignited as the rocket re-entered the thicker part of the atmosphere and destroyed the rocket, I mean that material held together through quite a bit. Titanium is extremely expensive and hard to work with. The SR-71 Blackbird's titanium came from Russia only to return over Russian skies later as spy planes as the USA was having trouble sourcing the titanium from elsewhere. Carbon fiber is extremely expensive and as we can see is the wrong material for a submarine. Stainless steel alloys are relatively cheap and can be customized to have very good properties for submarine use.
Carbon fiber is super lightweight, which makes it great for aircraft and spaceships. But in submersibles, that just means extra buoyancy which must be countered by adding ballast. The guy who constructed the Titan and died in it had a degree in aerospace engineering. The idiot was probably thinking that he was building an airplane.
@@BrokenCurtain This is the thing. There are people who study a subject and get the critical understanding to succeed or at least they have the right form if something goes wrong. Then there are idiots who are full of themselves and don't listen to the people who know what they are talking about. Just by listening to this guy's sales pitch, he was more of a salesman, full of himself, than a real engineer. He didn't listen to real engineers because he was too full of himself. This lead to his death. Like Elon Musk, however you feel about him, it is hard to deny that he is a real engineer. It doesn't mean things don't go wrong, but instead there is strong reasoning behind the engineering moves he makes and at the core, it is a good design. If he is dedicated enough, perfection is reached such as the Falcon 9 rocket. With a Tesla car, I think we all know that while the fundamentals are good, they are not perfect cars, but that is engineers also can have their quirks like being obsessed with Twitter and not finishing the job they started.
The number is the measurement of how much pressure is being built up. Not how much is being put on to the object. So the tougher object endure more pressure, showing a higher number.
Interesting to see the difference between the plastic deformation of aluminium and titanium, and the brittle sudden failure of the brass and steel alloys. Then naturally, in the light of recent events (and the naturally occurring morbid curiosity), the further comparison to various composites and acrylic became suddenly very topical and interesting in its own right.
This is a 3 point test in which the specimen is in shear and bending. If the bass was in a standard tensile test you would see that it did not fail suddenly.
Shows how the way things fail matters as much as how strong they are. Some purposes, you need them to hold shape, and if they fail all is lost, some things bent is better than broken
High speed steel (HSS) terminology probably comes from the factthat the drill bits, router bits etc. Made out of them can be run at higher cutting speed (and resulting temperature ) than high carbon steel ( traditional tool steel) can be. It can be run to red hot temperature, it will soften, but reharden to it original hardness upon cooling. Tool steel gradually softens above a few hundred degrees C. It needs to be quenched at red hot heat to reharden it an then tempered to the desired hardness to suit the tool's purpose. You can drill through steel without the use of coolant. Note that carpenters tools such as chisels, and metal working tools such as cold chisels, centre punches etc are made out of tool steel and not HSS. Such tools would fractures at the first blow with a hammer or mallet. Nothing structural is made from HSS , apart for entertainment I cannot imagine why such an unsuitable material was included in the tests. But the the whole exercise is inconclusive to me. I will add a comment.
Would be interesting to see the carbon fiber test redone comparing parallel and cross-hatched strand orientation at various angle combinations to determine the differences in strength and failure profile.
@@Splits-man as a novice unknowledgeable nube, I would have considered a multi-layer titanium-multiple opposing alternating cross hatched carbon fiber sandwich setup BUT that would still leave the issue of how to deal with joining the ends of the differing materials - a problem answered as to why gluing is now preferred to riveting on aircrafts these days to provide a smoother stress transition from 1 material to another but not sure if this would be even possible and/or work in a similar manner in extremely high inward deep-sea pressures
It would be nice to see the final chart, summarizing the strengths versus mass on a single screen. It is also important to highlight if the material breaks or bends.
When the steel broke, it gave us an Excellent example of the Normal Force at work, proving that as the press pushed the Block into the table, the table pushed back against the press, launching the block upward as soon as the steel broke
Im guessing titanium is used in submersibles for more reasons than just being strong and light. It also has other really good properties such as highly resistant to general corrosion in seawater and is an extremely stable metal as far as thermal expansion goes.
Don't they use steel instead? It's easier to form, and better understood. From what I'm reading, titanium helps create a sports-car kind of submarine because the light weight means you either get more internal room due to smaller engines or you get faster underwater speeds because you have excess power. But Titanium is like a sports car in that it requires a lot of money too. Titanium is an expensive metal so the initial cost is high. And materials research also hasn't yielded a strong yet flexible titanium alloy yet, so maintenance is a must or the titanium will start cracking sooner than an equivalent steel design.
And now I suddenly know why this video was being recommended to me. I watched several about that incident when it happened. That's one smart algorithm at work there.
@@tasa4904 the submersible with the deepest dive on record 5 times is the trinton 3600/2 or better know as the limiting factor. The pressure vessel is completely made out of titanium.
Idk if i just had low quality carbon fiber, but as soon as i heard thats what they used... that shit does not hold up well to friction, and the ocean is full of shit that increases it.
The carbon fiber is wild, considering what we know about the imploded sub. First, sounds like gunshots/fireworks were described in earlier dives. Then in the texts between the sub and the surface, they reported "crackling" sounds. Then apparently failure of the hull. That's exactly what's shown and heard in this example.
Creaking is usually sliding or stretching, elastic deformation or strain, both in the common and technical terminology. Crackling is usually fracture, of structural elements. While creaking means a structure is absorbing energy by deformation, sometimes even becoming stronger before declining again, crackling means elements of the structure are failing, continuously weakening. Each broken fibre creates a miniature focal point for slightly increased load, so it is a self-magnifying problem.
@@mightymystery9204 for real like. Carbon fibers great! Its just also. Fibers. Which means as soon as a single fiber breaks its weakened, even if just a little. Even if the body of the sub was strong enough to withstand the depths at one point, the friction of the ocean could very well start breaking fibers, and in the end. Well.
And that Rush moron said that the carbon fiber popping sounds were because it was "settling in" and becoming more stable, when in reality it was just being damaged beyond plasticity.
For all practical purposes yes, but I think everything has a plastic deformation threshold below which it is elastic. So if the lead spring was designed not to flex beyond that point then it would work, although the length of travel would be very short.
This just showed how amazingly strong and tough fibreglass can be, and how rigid carbon-fibre is! Titanium is of course an amazing metal having almost half the weight of steel. Tool steel did what I expected.
@@Ddog72 2004 was when it was first discovered and RECENTLY was when it was able to be manufactured to any amount that could really be used for anything other than testing. It is also been recently discovered that it is a superconductor at near room temperature and above.
@@bear76009it's stronger in some areas, but much like carbon fiber, apply a load in the wrong direction and it fails completely, whereas steel is able to handle high loads from just about any force. Steel isn't going anywhere anytime soon, it's cheap, easy to make, easy to work, and you can use it for just about anything outside of very specialized cases such as aircraft
to think some highly trained engineers though thought a material the cracks instead of bends was a good idea for a submarine that is constantly changing pressures.
Yeah , but it was cheap & “ hi tech “ , therefore it was easy to state bs like “ current methods of testing for safety are over the top & hinder innovation “ .
@@barbraabsalom4531 I can see that happening which just makes me laugh harder at these institutions and engineers that thought this was a good idea. I'm no materials expert but my limited experience with hockey sticks and knowing hard things tend to be brittle said that was a bad material. Feel bad for the victims, except the CEO.... It was his mistake after all.
Stainless steel are always have more popular with making submarines and ocean water ships battle cruiser world war 2 ships Aircraft carriers in America to now 2023 and no other types of material will change away from stainless steel since .
@@SilverStarHeggisist not sure why weight was a priority for a submarine. Much rather pay a bit more for the boat to move it around than have it crack under pressure.
Part of my job I build pressure vessels and steam headers as per ASME code. Carbon fiber and FRP are hard materials. They are brittle and fracture easily. Steel and titanium are tough. They bend and absorb forces. I'm far from building a sub, but never will I build it from carbon fiber or FRP.
4:00 imagine hearing this on every dive in a submersible nearly four kilometres beneath the surface of the ocean and being stupid enough to think: "Yep, this is fine!"
Nice tests. You should put up a table with the results and sort the list by weight, force, force/weight, material cost, cost/force etc. EDIT: I just noticed Kewin Taylor has presented some figures ;)
Blows my mind that Oceangate went with carbon Fiber. I’m not an engineer; but after a little research on testing it, it would be a big no go for me! They were not dealing with the possibly of ‘if’ but a certainty of ‘when’…
The passengers of Titan should’ve seen how poorly carbon fiber did when they paid $250k to go down in a tube of it with a Logitech controller. At least they got the full titanic experience
With the exception of the carbon fiber one, I knew the outcome of all of them before they happened. The reason why I was uncertain about the CF is because I wassn't sure how the rod was made. Long fibers, short fibers, directional, non-directional, "randomness", woven fabric. So it was a surprise to see it both split and sheer.
It's quite possible to create a carbon fiber sample that would perform much better than a pure unidirectional sample. Uni fibers wrapped in +45/-45 would perform much better.
3:50 - That looks more like forged carbon fiber. The forged carbon fiber has different characteristics than the classic "woven" one. Also mind the Carbon fibre is orthotropic.
@@georgeklow4561 But it wasn't, it should have been stronger than titanium. That means something was not OK with that particular carbon fiber. When carbon fiber is used the correct way it's insanely strong.
i would like to see you try graphene enforced carbon fiber. it should be about 20 to 35% stronger than the same weave of carbon fiber without the graphene.
Quite interesting to see. Interesting that the metals in general didn't break, but just bended. But I was surprised to see that brass broke like that in an almost straight like. I was also surprised to see the steel break like it did - quite an unwarned snap. Other interesting things is that the carbon fiber didn't bend much compared to the other materials.
harneded steel shatters (like a drill bit). Annealed steel is a lot softer and will bend a lot (like a normal rebar from the hardware store, or angle iron.. those are mild steel ) Brass can also be hardened or aneealed. Both the steel and brass pieces were hardened and they did shatter. CF and fiberglass were weak due to the matrix (the resin). As the resin broke and delaminated the fibers. More evident on fiberglass but is also present in the CF example.
HSS being generally a Tool Steel for making cutting tools has higher carbon content and is more rigid in return, so even though it can handle more pressure it in turn is brittle once its breaking point is reached
Wish you would have noted what grade of Ti alloy and HSS as well as heat treat conditions of the metals. Kinda a good overall example but more information on the specifics of all the constructions would be useful to better understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of each specimen.
Tbh in that case i would want like. A full video of just different alloys n all that of the same thing. Idk much about most of this but seeing how just heat treating affects it would be cool ya know?
Yep, the solids in the fiberglass/carbon fiber fail at similar thresholds to the straight acrylic, but they have the fibers to keep the fragments tied together. Ain't gonna be much use under negative pressure.
Very interesting. I assume this is pure titanium, whereas in high quality applications it is used as an alloy. In bike we have 3-2,5 or 4-6 titanium alloy (3 Al-2,5 V and 6Al-4V), with better performances. Also, we know testing fiber-based composite in this kind of press it's pretty unfair, but it's quite instructive anyway. We can see why they fail sometimes.
@@DaysofKnight Yeah, lightweightness. But that's barely the only reason. Steel, on the other hand, is dozens times cheaper, better keeps strength under extreme temperatures than Al/Carbon fiber, MUCH easier in production and usability (cutting/welding). Steel is just more important in humanity' development, than these 3 combined imo. Humanity needs bridges, buildings and cheap cars more, than efficient planes and supercars. The most powerful rocket to fly, where lightweightness is the key to success, is being made with steel.
I wonder if a higher load force could be had using the same size bar but using a composite structure? Maybe a steel core with a titanium jacket? I would also have liked to see the breaking point of each bar when being held in place instead of the bending that occured. Interesting vid none the less.
Using that selection of materials, no, not without changing the size or shape of the specimens. The steel is strongest and replacing any part of that steel bar with a weaker material cannot make it stronger. By how much will depend on which part you swap. The top and bottom faces are most critical.
Stainless is by far the best material to use for compression. Notice its not even on display here but it completely blows titanium and HSS steel away. Its heavy as hell though but that doesn't matter when it comes to submersible.
Honestly wasn't expecting the brass to snap like that I also thought the titanium would have lasted longer than the steel, given that it's always said to have better tensile strength than steel. Impressive how the titanium never gave way fully Aluminium did more or less what I expected, although I did expect it to actually break at some point
As it deforms, it work-hardens and becomes brittle. If the piece had been thinner, it would have stayed soft. Or maybe it was already work-hardened. We don't know where the piece came from. Maybe it was rolled and never annealed. And titanium is comparable to a pretty mild low-carbon steel. Much stronger steels are available
4:00 I wonder if this is what the folks in the sub heard before it failed. The pressure at the Titanic wreck depth is about 6,500 PSI (~4570 KG/SI). I'd like to see a test of 5 inch thick carbon fiber, like they used on the Titan. The titanium end caps were 3.25 inch thick.
You are asking for the "Yield Strength" of each material. If you google, you can find it for materials like 6160 aluminum quite easily. For more complex materials like carbon fiber it depends on the number of layers, orientation of the layers, etc so there is not just one standard number. This experiment could be redone with strain gauges and a stress strain chart could be made to find the Yield strength of each sample.
This is very, very interesting! Thank you. Rush kept saying CF was cheaper but I haven't heard just how much cheaper is it than some appropriate material !? Even if it costs a million dollars more, a good sub would be reusable.
fiber does brake faster of it is cut as a block or a square stick, if the material is broader than thick, like a sheet or a tube, the fiber appears to supports its structure longer, so that it can bend further than what we see here, like maybe 20%. Very curious whats left of the hull.
I'm considering a yacht build, so thanks for this info. It's appreciated. My calcs show relative strength [stiffness] to weight ratios [in kg/g] of the following: Acrylic = 16 Fibre glass = 31 Aluminium = 25 Carbon = 46 Brass = 11 Titanium = 54 HSS = 50 I would love to see Titanium alloys of aluminium and chome-molly, etc [you seem to have access to a good variety of stock]. Sea bronze and admiralty brass too. Mild steel as a datumn? Cor-ten would also be great to see. As would other stainless allows such as 304, 316 and the 4 series. Your press-play rocks! :-)
Can you do a Carbon Fiber+Kevlar combo. This is what is commonly used to beef up the carbon fibers strength. 5:1 carbon : Kevlar ratio. It’s what we used to use when I built race cars. I wonder how much stronger it is then just bare carbon
to get a stress strain curve, you need the cross sectional area, the weight is irrelevant. Since the bars were roughly the same size , you can almost factor it out. However, you're still looking at plastic failure, not elastic yield point. For real world results, you'd be more interested in the elastic yield point because usually after that point, your object won't work as intended anymore
After watching a few videos of this type showing both compression and sheer strength I'm starting to think ocean gate coulda had the same success with brass...
The pressure chamber was made with titanium and 5mn of carbon fiber . Carbon fiber are usefull when the pressure is from inside but not when pressure force come from the outside
@@davesmith9844Actually, it wasn't. It was all carbon fibre. Glued to titanium rings to attach the titanium end caps. A disaster waiting to happen. Even from the fact that it was a cylinder shape rather than a sphere. Much weaker.
@@isabelmauricio6394 Actually, it was not, take a look at the video showing them manufacturing it. You'll see a thin titanium tube onto which they apply the carbon fibre which is exactly what they say when explaining what they're doing. How else would they make a cylinder from what essentially looks like a roll of carbon fibre tape, it has to be applied to something.
Someday a material will materialize from nowhere and will be so obstinate that the hydraulic machine will burst and break into smithereens , I will love to see that moment !
You’ll not be surprised if you learn their real properties and application beforehand 😂 many thought that CF is some kind of magic material that can do everything LOL
If weight isn't a factor, high speed steel wins everything. I wouldn't have thought that before seeing this. If the weight of what you want to build doesn't matter, HSS wins hands down. But when you factor in everything, other materials have their place as well... Thumbs Up for the video!
Absolutely completely insane that Ocean Gate could hear their pressure chamber tearing apart on every dive and they didn’t immediately abort the design and restart from scratch.
I would have said ideally there wouldn't have been any snaps/pops etc. coming from the hull. Every one represents a small breakage in the structure, some flaw from manufacturing. However, that level of perfection might be unrealistic. With a sufficient (necessary) margin of safety you could cycle it (dive) unmanned and ensure there weren't too many pops/cracks or "adjustments"... But then, I wouldn't want to have *any* ongoing "accustic events" on subsequent dives. Those represent ongoing, *accumulating* damage, not a one-time settling-in. I believe you are correct, it was insane to continue using it, knowing the structure was weakening with every cycle. A catastrophic failure was a question of when, not if.
from watching this aluminium is just a little bit weaker than carbon fibre but it dont suddenly give way and its lighter and cheaper than titanium . id build my sub out of aluminium
Absolutely and have the total enjoyment and success of getting it right.
@@PIlotrcm They also said in their message that they were listening to Under Pressure by David Bowie and Queen and Down Down deeper and Down by Status Quo on their music system
@@philipstaite4775Note that Titan did have its whole pressure hull replaced before.
The hull that imploded is actually the second hull of that vehicle, not the first.
acrylic
201kg. / 12.5 g. / ratio 16.08
fiber glass
648. /20.9. / 31.00
aluminium
657. / 26.8. / 24.51
carbon fiber
740. / 15.2 / 48.68
brass
916. / 84. / 10.9
titanium
2418. / 44.5. / 54.34
HS steel
3870. / 76.8. / 50.39
You just completed the video, thank you!
Thank you!
Appreciate that. I was waiting for results at the end.
Was that pure Titanium, or an alloy?
Fiberglass was actually 20.09 or 20.1 g
"Don't repeat at home" Yeah everyone casually has an hydraulic press lying around
You mean, you don't?
@@arokit He’s being sarcastic.
I actually keep in my pocket and use when I wat to destroy something
@@Nomi-D-Yagami you have a bag of holding?
@@Nomi-D-Yagami
Where can I get your bag of holding?
I’m honestly most impressed with Fiberglass and how slowly it fails.
Doesn't fail slowly when crashed 😁
Woven roven fiberglass is stronger than chopstrand matt
Agree it still held together in parts totally surprised
with the exception of stiffness S class fibreglass has better characteristics than carbon fibre. And much cheaper
That’s why boats and bathtubs are made out of it.
Carbon fiber, don't use it for any submarine ever. Can't handle extreme pressure
Controller
now i see why making the ocean-gate submersible out of carbon fiber was a big mistake . R.I.P to the victims
Same here. I've been researching all about carbon fiber and the construction of that vessel. Makes total sense once you research the shape of how submersibles should be, the size, the materials, xcetera
I understand why they use titanium in submarsibles now
@@michaelyemariamlij2633 When you go over a broader scope of material options, I have wondered about doing more stainless steel for submarines. It seems you get the right stainless steel mix in there and it has some very good properties for a fraction of the price of other materials. SpaceX's Starship is made with a stainless steel alloy for different reasons and likely with different optimizations than what you would want for a submarine, but when you watch how much the structure of Starship over-performed in the 04/20 launch and they couldn't get the rocket to self-destruct, instead a massive structure cartwheeling through the air at multiple mach speeds while venting propellant through holes blown in the side of the rocket from the abort charges going off and after tumbling for a while, the venting propellant finally ignited as the rocket re-entered the thicker part of the atmosphere and destroyed the rocket, I mean that material held together through quite a bit.
Titanium is extremely expensive and hard to work with. The SR-71 Blackbird's titanium came from Russia only to return over Russian skies later as spy planes as the USA was having trouble sourcing the titanium from elsewhere. Carbon fiber is extremely expensive and as we can see is the wrong material for a submarine. Stainless steel alloys are relatively cheap and can be customized to have very good properties for submarine use.
Carbon fiber is super lightweight, which makes it great for aircraft and spaceships.
But in submersibles, that just means extra buoyancy which must be countered by adding ballast.
The guy who constructed the Titan and died in it had a degree in aerospace engineering. The idiot was probably thinking that he was building an airplane.
@@BrokenCurtain This is the thing. There are people who study a subject and get the critical understanding to succeed or at least they have the right form if something goes wrong. Then there are idiots who are full of themselves and don't listen to the people who know what they are talking about.
Just by listening to this guy's sales pitch, he was more of a salesman, full of himself, than a real engineer. He didn't listen to real engineers because he was too full of himself. This lead to his death.
Like Elon Musk, however you feel about him, it is hard to deny that he is a real engineer. It doesn't mean things don't go wrong, but instead there is strong reasoning behind the engineering moves he makes and at the core, it is a good design. If he is dedicated enough, perfection is reached such as the Falcon 9 rocket. With a Tesla car, I think we all know that while the fundamentals are good, they are not perfect cars, but that is engineers also can have their quirks like being obsessed with Twitter and not finishing the job they started.
Started out so good , i dont understand why you wont put the max pressure of each item in a graph at the end . Its like watching a half done video
I agree
EXACTLY!! 🤦♂️
👌🏽
The number is the measurement of how much pressure is being built up. Not how much is being put on to the object. So the tougher object endure more pressure, showing a higher number.
Illiterate . Dnt see this. See tiktok.
Interesting to see the difference between the plastic deformation of aluminium and titanium, and the brittle sudden failure of the brass and steel alloys.
Then naturally, in the light of recent events (and the naturally occurring morbid curiosity), the further comparison to various composites and acrylic became suddenly very topical and interesting in its own right.
HHS steel is a Tool steel so it is naturally brittle but holds an excellent edge for cutting.
This is a 3 point test in which the specimen is in shear and bending. If the bass was in a standard tensile test you would see that it did not fail suddenly.
Resistances:
-7 - Acrylic: Weight: 12,5 G/Resistance: 201 KG
-6 - Fiberglass: Weight: 20,9 G/Resistance: 648 KG
-5 - Aluminum: Weight: 26,8/Resistance: 657 KG
-4 - Carbon Fiber: Weight: 15,2 G/Resistance: 740 KG
-3 - Brass: Weight: 84 G/Resistance: 916 KG
-2 - Titanium: Weight: 44,5 G/Resistance: 2418 KG
-1 - HSS: Weight: 76,8 G/Resistance: 3870 KG
This is great but can you edit and do the material weight side by side the resistance weight. Thank you❤️
Thanks! Eeven better if you could add the masses... :)
@@bidav2114 Hmmm, i will see what i can do
@@HughCStevenson1 Done! 👍🏼
Thanks
Shows how the way things fail matters as much as how strong they are. Some purposes, you need them to hold shape, and if they fail all is lost, some things bent is better than broken
“I wonder why they call it high speed steel… oh that’s why…”
It's used in cutting tools like for a metal lathe or drill bits...
😂😂😂😂
High speed steel (HSS) terminology probably comes from the factthat the drill bits, router bits etc. Made out of them can be run at higher cutting speed (and resulting temperature ) than high carbon steel ( traditional tool steel) can be. It can be run to red hot temperature, it will soften, but reharden to it original hardness upon cooling. Tool steel gradually softens above a few hundred degrees C. It needs to be quenched at red hot heat to reharden it an then tempered to the desired hardness to suit the tool's purpose. You can drill through steel without the use of coolant.
Note that carpenters tools such as chisels, and metal working tools such as cold chisels, centre punches etc are made out of tool steel and not HSS. Such tools would fractures at the first blow with a hammer or mallet. Nothing structural is made from HSS , apart for entertainment I cannot imagine why such an unsuitable material was included in the tests. But the the whole exercise is inconclusive to me. I will add a comment.
"Do not repeat this at home". No, just do it for real by trying to dive to the Titanic.
Would be interesting to see the carbon fiber test redone comparing parallel and cross-hatched strand orientation at various angle combinations to determine the differences in strength and failure profile.
That’s what killed them. It was parallel not cross hatched
@@Splits-man as a novice unknowledgeable nube, I would have considered a multi-layer titanium-multiple opposing alternating cross hatched carbon fiber sandwich setup BUT that would still leave the issue of how to deal with joining the ends of the differing materials - a problem answered as to why gluing is now preferred to riveting on aircrafts these days to provide a smoother stress transition from 1 material to another but not sure if this would be even possible and/or work in a similar manner in extremely high inward deep-sea pressures
Would be still far away from the strength of the steel.
@@kevin.afton_ weight considerations in a logistical sense for a non-fully self-propelled short-range DSV would probably be a rather large impediment
@@wl88168 gluing the ends would be ok, because the pressure is squeezing it together, carbon fiber is stiff , it doesn't bend it shatters like glass
It would be nice to see the final chart, summarizing the strengths versus mass on a single screen.
It is also important to highlight if the material breaks or bends.
Exactly..I expected this simples chart.
no
That would be asking too much, this is clearly not made by a scientist, everything is not standardised
no
Exactly! If you are doing a tension or bending test show the force deflection curve at least. Stress and strain if you have better equipment.
When the steel broke, it gave us an Excellent example of the Normal Force at work, proving that as the press pushed the Block into the table, the table pushed back against the press, launching the block upward as soon as the steel broke
I like when there is push back ;-)
Im guessing titanium is used in submersibles for more reasons than just being strong and light. It also has other really good properties such as highly resistant to general corrosion in seawater and is an extremely stable metal as far as thermal expansion goes.
Don't they use steel instead? It's easier to form, and better understood. From what I'm reading, titanium helps create a sports-car kind of submarine because the light weight means you either get more internal room due to smaller engines or you get faster underwater speeds because you have excess power. But Titanium is like a sports car in that it requires a lot of money too. Titanium is an expensive metal so the initial cost is high. And materials research also hasn't yielded a strong yet flexible titanium alloy yet, so maintenance is a must or the titanium will start cracking sooner than an equivalent steel design.
Stainless steel is stronger and way cheaper and still resistant to corrosion. Titanium is better than carbon fiber tho.
And now I suddenly know why this video was being recommended to me. I watched several about that incident when it happened. That's one smart algorithm at work there.
@@tasa4904 the submersible with the deepest dive on record 5 times is the trinton 3600/2 or better know as the limiting factor. The pressure vessel is completely made out of titanium.
Idk if i just had low quality carbon fiber, but as soon as i heard thats what they used... that shit does not hold up well to friction, and the ocean is full of shit that increases it.
I fully expected the HSS to snap, but I didn't think it would snap so violently.
3,5 tons :D
why do you think they call it high speed steel?
@@Killertomato84 🤣
It’s 65 on the Rockwell scale, tungsten carbide is in the mid 70’s I’d much like to see that one
@@brutaladd I know what you’re saying but I also hope you got the joke..haha
The carbon fiber is wild, considering what we know about the imploded sub. First, sounds like gunshots/fireworks were described in earlier dives. Then in the texts between the sub and the surface, they reported "crackling" sounds. Then apparently failure of the hull. That's exactly what's shown and heard in this example.
Imagine hearing those noises! The dread!
Creaking is usually sliding or stretching, elastic deformation or strain, both in the common and technical terminology. Crackling is usually fracture, of structural elements. While creaking means a structure is absorbing energy by deformation, sometimes even becoming stronger before declining again, crackling means elements of the structure are failing, continuously weakening. Each broken fibre creates a miniature focal point for slightly increased load, so it is a self-magnifying problem.
Those transcripts are fake.
@@mightymystery9204 for real like. Carbon fibers great! Its just also. Fibers. Which means as soon as a single fiber breaks its weakened, even if just a little.
Even if the body of the sub was strong enough to withstand the depths at one point, the friction of the ocean could very well start breaking fibers, and in the end. Well.
And that Rush moron said that the carbon fiber popping sounds were because it was "settling in" and becoming more stable, when in reality it was just being damaged beyond plasticity.
This channel has taught me that under enough pressure pretty much anything can be a spring.
Well sometimes, it can be winter.
Not sure about the "anything" part of that statement... A soft metal like lead will probably just deform into the new shape and not try to rebound...
For all practical purposes yes, but I think everything has a plastic deformation threshold below which it is elastic. So if the lead spring was designed not to flex beyond that point then it would work, although the length of travel would be very short.
This just showed how amazingly strong and tough fibreglass can be, and how rigid carbon-fibre is! Titanium is of course an amazing metal having almost half the weight of steel. Tool steel did what I expected.
they have a new substance they can produce that is called Graphene that is just amazing. It has 10,000x the strength of its weight in steel.
@@bear76009 Its not new at all.
@@Ddog72 2004 was when it was first discovered and RECENTLY was when it was able to be manufactured to any amount that could really be used for anything other than testing. It is also been recently discovered that it is a superconductor at near room temperature and above.
@@bear76009 Yep, I've heard about it.
@@bear76009it's stronger in some areas, but much like carbon fiber, apply a load in the wrong direction and it fails completely, whereas steel is able to handle high loads from just about any force. Steel isn't going anywhere anytime soon, it's cheap, easy to make, easy to work, and you can use it for just about anything outside of very specialized cases such as aircraft
Insanely great! Fantastic demonstrations! Thanks!
imagine hearing carbon fiber cracking just before your submarine implodes in the Atlantic ocean
5 people did
Was that your stomach rumbling or did you far… 💥 👼 🌁
It should be terrible
I doubt they had time to hear it cracking. At such pressure, structures don't warn you. It just breaks.
That feeling won't last very long.
So the reason the carbon failed so early is because of the orientation of the fibers. I’d recommend using a biax variant. Same with fiberglass
The fiber direction is everything!
to think some highly trained engineers though thought a material the cracks instead of bends was a good idea for a submarine that is constantly changing pressures.
Yeah , but it was cheap & “ hi tech “ , therefore it was easy to state bs like “ current methods of testing for safety are over the top & hinder innovation “ .
@@barbraabsalom4531 I can see that happening which just makes me laugh harder at these institutions and engineers that thought this was a good idea. I'm no materials expert but my limited experience with hockey sticks and knowing hard things tend to be brittle said that was a bad material. Feel bad for the victims, except the CEO.... It was his mistake after all.
@@barbraabsalom4531 I'm guessing they went with it cause light weight. When I think of cheap materials, carbon fiber isn't one of them
Stainless steel are always have more popular with making submarines and ocean water ships battle cruiser world war 2 ships Aircraft carriers in America to now 2023 and no other types of material will change away from stainless steel since .
@@SilverStarHeggisist not sure why weight was a priority for a submarine. Much rather pay a bit more for the boat to move it around than have it crack under pressure.
Part of my job I build pressure vessels and steam headers as per ASME code. Carbon fiber and FRP are hard materials. They are brittle and fracture easily. Steel and titanium are tough. They bend and absorb forces. I'm far from building a sub, but never will I build it from carbon fiber or FRP.
4:00 imagine hearing this on every dive in a submersible nearly four kilometres beneath the surface of the ocean and being stupid enough to think: "Yep, this is fine!"
Yep
Or thinking that it's bending back into shape...
Oceangate: "our next submersible will be made of acrylic".
Nice tests. You should put up a table with the results and sort the list by weight, force, force/weight, material cost, cost/force etc. EDIT: I just noticed Kewin Taylor has presented some figures ;)
"Do not try at home"
Me: stuff's 4 ton hydraulic press back into my pocket
Oceangate brought me here
*puts accidentally iphone*: oh no my phone!
*puts accidentally nokia* : oh no my hydraulic press!
This is the most mesmerizing experiment on CZcams!
Titanium is incredible.
it will be interesting to see how 2DPA-1 fairs against the hydraulic press weighs less the plastic and twice as strong as steel supposedly.
I had no idea brass was so strong or so heavy, nuce video, thanks! 👍
Thank you so much for this experience!
Greetings from Croatia...
Blows my mind that Oceangate went with carbon Fiber. I’m not an engineer; but after a little research on testing it, it would be a big no go for me!
They were not dealing with the possibly of ‘if’ but a certainty of ‘when’…
Unlike titanium, carbon fiber wears out and can break down over time.
@@rwgameplays3253 Titanium is for real men while carbon fiber is for libtards. Even I, a Bigfoot, can tell that.
Im only here because of Titan
The passengers of Titan should’ve seen how poorly carbon fiber did when they paid $250k to go down in a tube of it with a Logitech controller.
At least they got the full titanic experience
Lmao because of titan now everyone thinks carbon fiber is weak. In round shape it can be stronger than steel for fraction the weight.
@@kaisuhina8024it can't that's why noone uses it dor submarines
Sure if you need less weight it can help but not be stronger
@@wnsjimbo2863 its not typically used in submarines because steel is cheaper.
That’s why basic critical reasoning skills go a long way in keeping one safe and sound.
Titan Submersible: That first crack you heard from the carbon fiber piece is something you wouldn't of heard in the sub berfore death. Great video!
Who else is watching this because of the sub?
Me
With the exception of the carbon fiber one, I knew the outcome of all of them before they happened. The reason why I was uncertain about the CF is because I wassn't sure how the rod was made. Long fibers, short fibers, directional, non-directional, "randomness", woven fabric. So it was a surprise to see it both split and sheer.
Also depends which direction the press is pressing against the fibers. Carbon fiber is extremely strong in one direction
c/gf are the strongest in tensile strength, this was loaded on bending-it is combination of push , pull and shear
It seems they weren't woven at all. It was test of the glue not the carbon fiber.
which is exactly what you want, predicability is essential when it comes to material failure
It's quite possible to create a carbon fiber sample that would perform much better than a pure unidirectional sample. Uni fibers wrapped in +45/-45 would perform much better.
3:50 - That looks more like forged carbon fiber. The forged carbon fiber has different characteristics than the classic "woven" one. Also mind the Carbon fibre is orthotropic.
Pretty sure it's unidirectional (UD) carbon fiber, so it should be good for a bend test as the fibers are aligned to the stress direction
@@georgeklow4561 But it wasn't, it should have been stronger than titanium. That means something was not OK with that particular carbon fiber. When carbon fiber is used the correct way it's insanely strong.
Very cool. Didn’t expect the brass to pop
Excellent work! thank you!
i would like to see you try graphene enforced carbon fiber. it should be about 20 to 35% stronger than the same weave of carbon fiber without the graphene.
Quite interesting to see. Interesting that the metals in general didn't break, but just bended. But I was surprised to see that brass broke like that in an almost straight like. I was also surprised to see the steel break like it did - quite an unwarned snap. Other interesting things is that the carbon fiber didn't bend much compared to the other materials.
harneded steel shatters (like a drill bit). Annealed steel is a lot softer and will bend a lot (like a normal rebar from the hardware store, or angle iron.. those are mild steel )
Brass can also be hardened or aneealed.
Both the steel and brass pieces were hardened and they did shatter.
CF and fiberglass were weak due to the matrix (the resin). As the resin broke and delaminated the fibers. More evident on fiberglass but is also present in the CF example.
Quenched and tempered steel will not yield but will explode once the tension reaches its capacity.
Carbon fiber is strong but when if failed it break snap quickly with no warning
Yes! My thought as well!! Always learning, aren’t we??
the carbon fibre imploded . it was the weakest point of the sub....
Gran ensayo! Gracias.
Excellent - All the materials performed exactly as I expected although the HSS was particularly violent when it failed.
HSS being generally a Tool Steel for making cutting tools has higher carbon content and is more rigid in return, so even though it can handle more pressure it in turn is brittle once its breaking point is reached
Here because of sub.
Wish you would have noted what grade of Ti alloy and HSS as well as heat treat conditions of the metals. Kinda a good overall example but more information on the specifics of all the constructions would be useful to better understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of each specimen.
Tbh in that case i would want like. A full video of just different alloys n all that of the same thing. Idk much about most of this but seeing how just heat treating affects it would be cool ya know?
Yep, the solids in the fiberglass/carbon fiber fail at similar thresholds to the straight acrylic, but they have the fibers to keep the fragments tied together. Ain't gonna be much use under negative pressure.
Thanks now I can be an expert submarine engineer tomorrow morning at work with the colleagues 😂
Very interesting. I assume this is pure titanium, whereas in high quality applications it is used as an alloy. In bike we have 3-2,5 or 4-6 titanium alloy (3 Al-2,5 V and 6Al-4V), with better performances.
Also, we know testing fiber-based composite in this kind of press it's pretty unfair, but it's quite instructive anyway. We can see why they fail sometimes.
I was surprised at how ductile the aluminum and titanium were.
Oh my goodness. Had no idea. Very informative test.
Excellent video, thank you very much sir!
Missing sub 2023 happening sent me here.
Damn that last piece of steel turned into a frag bomb
For me Aluminium and Titanium are the most ductile and best mass for mass for the application that I would use it for!
Thanks!
This video should be seen for the next person that wants to do a sea bottom adventure.
Considering price for each of these pieces and testing results, now you surely know why steel is so popular in the world.
Still would take Titanium or Carbon Fiber over Steel. There's a reason why Hypercars are made out of Carbon Fiber, Aluminum, and Titanium. Not Steel
@@DaysofKnight Yeah, lightweightness. But that's barely the only reason. Steel, on the other hand, is dozens times cheaper, better keeps strength under extreme temperatures than Al/Carbon fiber, MUCH easier in production and usability (cutting/welding). Steel is just more important in humanity' development, than these 3 combined imo. Humanity needs bridges, buildings and cheap cars more, than efficient planes and supercars. The most powerful rocket to fly, where lightweightness is the key to success, is being made with steel.
@@DaysofKnightokay, stockton.
The Steel explosion is such a great example of “The floor pushes up on you with equal force as you push down.”
Have to love that normal force N
I wonder if a higher load force could be had using the same size bar but using a composite structure? Maybe a steel core with a titanium jacket? I would also have liked to see the breaking point of each bar when being held in place instead of the bending that occured. Interesting vid none the less.
Using that selection of materials, no, not without changing the size or shape of the specimens. The steel is strongest and replacing any part of that steel bar with a weaker material cannot make it stronger. By how much will depend on which part you swap. The top and bottom faces are most critical.
This is why I want to see this video, especially titanium and carbon fiber involved.
Stainless is by far the best material to use for compression. Notice its not even on display here but it completely blows titanium and HSS steel away. Its heavy as hell though but that doesn't matter when it comes to submersible.
Yes weight matters. That's really easy to research
Titanium is best for submersibles.
Honestly wasn't expecting the brass to snap like that
I also thought the titanium would have lasted longer than the steel, given that it's always said to have better tensile strength than steel.
Impressive how the titanium never gave way fully
Aluminium did more or less what I expected, although I did expect it to actually break at some point
looks like bronze.
@@kevinryan739 bronze is more orange or red then brass. This is clearly brass
As it deforms, it work-hardens and becomes brittle. If the piece had been thinner, it would have stayed soft. Or maybe it was already work-hardened. We don't know where the piece came from. Maybe it was rolled and never annealed. And titanium is comparable to a pretty mild low-carbon steel. Much stronger steels are available
steel is more brittle titanium is softer
Didn't expect carbon to be so brittle
That high speed steel took the name to whole new level 😮
4:00 I wonder if this is what the folks in the sub heard before it failed. The pressure at the Titanic wreck depth is about 6,500 PSI (~4570 KG/SI).
I'd like to see a test of 5 inch thick carbon fiber, like they used on the Titan. The titanium end caps were 3.25 inch thick.
Wow I had no idea how strong yet brittle carbon fiber is. Hardly any flex before failure compared to the others.
It would be very useful to know how all those compare at the point at which the sample will no longer return to its previous shape.
You are asking for the "Yield Strength" of each material. If you google, you can find it for materials like 6160 aluminum quite easily. For more complex materials like carbon fiber it depends on the number of layers, orientation of the layers, etc so there is not just one standard number. This experiment could be redone with strain gauges and a stress strain chart could be made to find the Yield strength of each sample.
Well I have an answer for you if it’s 5 inches of carbon fiber…
This is very, very interesting! Thank you.
Rush kept saying CF was cheaper but I haven't heard just how much cheaper is it than some appropriate material !?
Even if it costs a million dollars more, a good sub would be reusable.
fiber does brake faster of it is cut as a block or a square stick, if the material is broader than thick, like a sheet or a tube, the fiber appears to supports its structure longer, so that it can bend further than what we see here, like maybe 20%. Very curious whats left of the hull.
So...dont make a sub tp see the titanic in a sub made out of carbon fiber.....
I'm considering a yacht build, so thanks for this info. It's appreciated.
My calcs show relative strength [stiffness] to weight ratios [in kg/g] of the following:
Acrylic = 16
Fibre glass = 31
Aluminium = 25
Carbon = 46
Brass = 11
Titanium = 54
HSS = 50
I would love to see Titanium alloys of aluminium and chome-molly, etc [you seem to have access to a good variety of stock].
Sea bronze and admiralty brass too.
Mild steel as a datumn?
Cor-ten would also be great to see.
As would other stainless allows such as 304, 316 and the 4 series.
Your press-play rocks!
:-)
Tal vez a escala...
This is the best ever channel
Can you do a Carbon Fiber+Kevlar combo. This is what is commonly used to beef up the carbon fibers strength. 5:1 carbon : Kevlar ratio. It’s what we used to use when I built race cars. I wonder how much stronger it is then just bare carbon
And this is why you Don't make a submarine from carbon fibre
Another interesting test would be to repeat the test with your samples being all of equal weight.
Nah, just do math.
to get a stress strain curve, you need the cross sectional area, the weight is irrelevant. Since the bars were roughly the same size , you can almost factor it out. However, you're still looking at plastic failure, not elastic yield point. For real world results, you'd be more interested in the elastic yield point because usually after that point, your object won't work as intended anymore
"do not repeat at home"
Damn it there goes my weekend plans
if only stockton rush had taken some time on youtube to watch free videos like this...
Could u do the same thing but with thermal vision?
There is something called "motion amplification" for videos. Just an idea. Love your vids.
I tought the same
CHP : don't do this at home
Oceancrap's CEO Rush : they didn't advertise agaisnt testing this at sea...
What is the press base and ram surfaces made out of?
Is the carbon fibre some sort of composite? I can't see the fibres on that sample.
After watching a few videos of this type showing both compression and sheer strength I'm starting to think ocean gate coulda had the same success with brass...
Now which material would you want your sub made out of, Titanium or Carbon Fibre 😅
The pressure chamber was made with titanium and 5mn of carbon fiber .
Carbon fiber are usefull when the pressure is from inside but not when pressure force come from the outside
@@carabinias6513 The tube was 5 inch of carbon fiber, only the end caps were titanium.
@@SilverStarHeggisist ...actually, it was a thing titanium tube which was layered with 5" of carbon fibre XD
@@davesmith9844Actually, it wasn't. It was all carbon fibre. Glued to titanium rings to attach the titanium end caps. A disaster waiting to happen.
Even from the fact that it was a cylinder shape rather than a sphere. Much weaker.
@@isabelmauricio6394 Actually, it was not, take a look at the video showing them manufacturing it. You'll see a thin titanium tube onto which they apply the carbon fibre which is exactly what they say when explaining what they're doing. How else would they make a cylinder from what essentially looks like a roll of carbon fibre tape, it has to be applied to something.
Now that''s a scary test result.
I'm glad to see so many new comments. It's turns out that I'm not the only one who didn't completely understand what carbon fiber is.
so fiberglass, a little bit weaker than carbon fiber, but didn't really break, might make for good bicycle frames, etc.(much cheaper also)
Too flexible for bikes 😮
As strong as I thought.
But glass fiber is more powerful than I thought.
Omg the crackling noises from the carbon fiber!!!!! How was that not a giant red flag for oceangate?!!!!
It's cool seeing how deferent metals react differently
Inconel?
I respect everyone who were involved in this Seriously the best piece that i ve ever seen on CZcams 💌 Hate off to well all 💟 love your videos
Odio y respeto... Interesante combinación.
Someday a material will materialize from nowhere and will be so obstinate that the hydraulic machine will burst and break into smithereens , I will love to see that moment !
I was confused as to what the “high speed” in the HSS stands for but boy did I get the answer very quickly 😂
im surprised the carbon fiber didnt even get to 800 kg 🤯
I'm not too surprised. The advantage of carbon fiber is weight to strength ratio. Not necessarily the raw strength of the material itself.
Yes the ratio is 46 the hss steal 50
And the best Titanium 54
Carbon fiber strengh is mostlly against tention, against bending forces the strengh of the binding agent is the limiting factor.
CF is strong along its fiber but not across 😢
You’ll not be surprised if you learn their real properties and application beforehand 😂 many thought that CF is some kind of magic material that can do everything LOL
Very poor quality of carbonfibre. Sticks that thick we make in the shop can atleast do 3000kg
^^^^ Stockton Rush's last youtube comment
@@goaway9977 He bought that carbon fibre for cheap from boieng too, the airplane company when they were selling it for scraps 😨
Have you done this test with a similar bar of tungsten carbide? My two favorite medals, titanium and tungsten.
If weight isn't a factor, high speed steel wins everything. I wouldn't have thought that before seeing this. If the weight of what you want to build doesn't matter, HSS wins hands down. But when you factor in everything, other materials have their place as well... Thumbs Up for the video!