After some deliberations I changed my mind about the stuff I listed in the end. 1. For AS in General, it's so new and weird that i consider it all yellow now. 2. Seele - I wasn't entirely sure if she performed well in AS. But thanks to my previous statement I should mention her being good at PF and a little yellow for MoC (since theres stuff like the Past Present anf Future bosses running around) 3. Topaz - She wasn't really fairly rated here as a sub-dps. I should've put green in MoC and PF since it depends on the main DPS being good for it, and not really Topaz' liability to deal with. Overall, the characters that are only good at the two end game types are ones with many attacks and enemy count agnostic. This includes Firefly since she's so fast, and Xueyi. But both really need their respective weaknesses in PF. Similarly for Acheron she needs Black Swan for PF but otherwise can handle any enemy count for MoC. Same with Topaz who depends on the other DPS. So the only ones left are the specific DPS liks Black Swan and Argenti that gets away with it lmao. If Blade's numbers weren't so low I'd praise him more but sadly we don't have furina yet.
Consider also that some characters abruptly change their playstyles based on eidolons. DHIL are meh in PF, but at E2 he's actually quite good at it especially with er rope. Firefly at E2 with hyperspeed bronya will destroy PF waves like she's in SU with that 3* hunt blessing. Boothill at E6 unlocks destruction mode. Acheron at E2 is more flexible in team comps, might allow for better result in PF. The reverse can also happen. Jade at E1 is suddenly not that bad in single target. This doesn't apply to all characters. Jingliu, our resident omnipotent dps, doesn't change her meh status in PF even with E6, because her eidolons don't change her gameplay much, they just make her hits harder. Dr. Ratio remains single target in his entire career. Argenti is the same for single target. Blade... is Blade, sadly :( I don't think always keeping to E0 in discussion is good, because at one point, players with maturing account, even pure f2ps, will have to make decisions on their eidolon choices, and some characters arguably have more valuable eidolons than others. And having old characters that, with enough eidolons, can withstand the test of time will be cheaper than pulling every single new characters just for keeping up with the current "meta".
I honestly think PF's reputation as the "easy" endgame mode is almost purely based on the fact that the first 2 PF cycles were very easy. Ever since that DoT PF it's been obvious that Hoyo is turning up the challenge on the mode. IMO, the high difficulty of AS was a reaction to how PF went. They want people to take it seriously, so they made the first one very hard to make sure the community knows what's up.
For some reason most players dont want to admit if theyre struggling in pf, its like they dont even consider it as important as the other modes eventho it has the same amount of rewards. Not to mention that despite what they say, most of the "broken" dps are horrible in pf, even Acheron and Firefly are carried by dot and Himeko respectively. Btw its nice to see someone with unbiased views in terms of this topic
Even i have the meta dps i am struggling in pf since i have no dot comp and my argenti build is crap since my tingyun is not that good build if it's not fua pf can't 12 star minimum of 11
True, for me am not afraid to admit I feel like PF is the hardest of all, I aredy max star in MOC and AS but am still struggling to max star in PF but consider mayby am struggling so must is because i build so many characters but never build a single erudition character probably (cause am broke) 😂😂😂
PF favour off-turn damage and probably forever like that, due to it's about clearing mob and not sheer damage. Which is why Follow-Up and DoT are naturally favour. So FF struggle would be expected, since she has no off-turn damage. Acheron take time to charge Ult.
@@silvalgalewalker503 luckily i have all fua attackers except for jade but i have no single dot so i am planning to get blackswan at her rerun since they say it's 2.4 and if lucky enough also jiaojiu idk the spelling but the fox guy
@@emmirbynuestro9726 Yeah, DoT would be a good investment. Jiaoqui, idk how to spell his name either, I also think about pulling for him too. I need another team wide support.
My only problem with end game mode is that you can clear AS and MoC with any unit you have as long as you build well but PF is slowly becoming "Pull for this character or you won't get full rewards". Like seriously especially when it's a dot centric cycle it's so miserable to clear
100% agree. Day 1 FTP player here who can barely get 60k On stage 3 of pure fiction 💀 It often caters so much to DoT and FuA, just the types I have not invested well in or do not have the characters (No Kafka or BS)! I invested mostly in DHIL, Acheron, and Firefly. I do have Argenti and Himeko built ok but I’ve had trouble building them due to bad crit relic luck and I have ZERO patience and will to build Herta for the same reason, especially since I’m broke from splurging on Firefly’s whole team. Clara is decent but inconsistent. Crit is such a pain. It’s why I got Firefly, and I’m glad I did. Had such an easier time building her. It’s basically that if the buffs cater to my characters, I can clear but if they don’t, I simply just can’t and it all falls off a cliff. At least brute forcing with pure stats alone can be a thing in MoC and AS.
End game mode in HSR is basically Kafka/BS DoT team, Acheron, and Firefly. If you have those 3 teams you can beat MoC, PF, and AS forever. Anyone else is trash, except destruction waifus.
As someone who doesn't have Black Swan or Kafka, I always die a little inside when there is a DoT focused endgame mode. My only built DoT character is Sampo (｡•́︿•̀｡)
Considering that Pure Fiction and MoC give equal rewards (this Pure Fiction cycle actually gives more), I think both should be given equal priority. With that said, the top Pure Fiction DPS is a 4* character, so of course people are gonna look at Jade with the bombastic side eye when deciding to pull. As for the "good in all 3" character endgame modes, I do wanna shout out Seele as being a good candidate. Her 20% Quantum Res Pen helps her brute force MoC content, especially when there are adds, and she does well against Cocolia in Apocalyptic Shadow too, only lagging behind Acheron, Firefly, and Boothill. However, her real strength comes in Pure Fiction, where her Resurgence is able to proc multiple times and kill multiple enemies. It's very much a "feast or famine" playstyle where you NEED a certain amount of damage to get those resets, but once you do (aided by characters like Tingyun, Robin, Sparkle, and Ruan Mei), it becomes really easy to lap around and take your turns multiple times, especially with the help of something like 4 pc Eagle.
@@bangtanssera Not necessarily, using Basics is essential to Seele's kit because it gives her 20% Advance Forward. Seele + Bronya is definitely too SP heavy, but just Seele hypercarry can make up for her high SP consumption with a mix of Skills and Basics.
Jade doesnt underperfom in other modes or is at worst on par or better than other erudition characters. Her being able to played as a sub dps and sp positive is also a huge Bonus. I was surprised how well she did honestly considering how ppl doomposted her outside of pf. There is def smth hypocritical w/ ppl when it comes to dps checks. Jl and dhil are still considered Prime dps even tho honestly unless you got their key Upgrades (lc and Supps like sparkle) they feel horrible to play. They dont even perform well in pf and as (yet). I dont remember the last time I used JL outside of one lower moc floor. Anyways, im not saying they are unusable but some ppl seem to want to commit to a status quo where moc is still the only Mode that matters and these two were at their Prime. Sorry guys but we now need to start pulling many chars depending on Individual performances in each Mode now! Also AS was really hard for me to clear at first but I found a strat eventually. But I hate that Mode lol
I really get the feeling that for the new MoC rotation they're gonna make the Abundance Deer or the Swarm the final fight, to really sell Jade, since it would be her perfect scenario. Jade and other full AOE centric units have never been "bad" for MoC as much as they've been conditioned into only specific fights. And Jade's raw numbers are very insane, her only problem would be that she kills the adds too fast and wouldn't be able to farm them for FUA triggers to deal even more damage to the main boss. lol
Love this video. This community acts like PF is a no brainer ez all stars clear but really no it's just not that simple. Black Swan single handedly ruined PF because DoT PF is borderline unplayable without her due to how weak you are. Followup PFs are balanced around followup *spammers* specifically and if you don't have any of those built then you are in for pain. Ultimate PFs are just Argenti and Jing Yuan, Himeko, and Herta to a lesser extent. Personally I think for an account they should focus on what PF asks of you because it has the stricted requirements in terms of "use X Y Z characters or you aren't getting full stars". Unless the PF carry you have in mind's name starts with an H or her name is Jade, they're a very serviceable unit in MoC and AS too.
For DoT PF, Clara and Aventurine does wonders bcs they're damage quickly adds up and for Aventurine specifically you're using the only sustain worth it on PF and he gets more stacks bcs of enemy AA
People don't want to build herta , himeko. Don't want to summon argenti, jade . And complain. What's the point of different game mode if your jl and il clears all.
Tell that to a brand new player. Have to build and pull characters for all 3 mods plus supports. And get two teams for each. Good luck if you don't get the unit you need, lose a 50/50, and or the unit is limited and no current banner.
for me, PF is always the hardest one. himeko/herta definetly clear the first node, but the problem is the second node, I used someone like clara hyper and it barely clear. For MOC, I clear it pretty good from the moment I got Jingliu to this day, I clear like 4 - 9 cycle. AS pretty hard as well, FF clears the first node but the 2nd node I need to rely on its gimmick more but still clear.
Great vid as usual, but I kind of want to point out that she actually performs exceptionally well in current MOC (even off element vs Argenti) and Apoc (Cocolia). SPD is very important and Jade has huge self buffs and multipliers For example look at her talent multiplier its 120-200% and huge self buffs (120% CD, 25% ATK), this is more than other erudition units and it does not cost AP. Personally I pulled her E1S0 for Blade and I was prepared for her to be pretty mid, but after testing her out in MOC/Apoc I am shocked at how good she is. For example My Jingliu running Ruan + TY/Pela + FuXuan 2 cycle Argenti, while using Jade in place of TY I can reliably 1 cycle. But, of course I can 0 cycle with Bronya so you might say its still not BiS option. I also tried other combinations such as Jade + Clara, Jade + Blade and some others and results are equal or better than running extra harmony even when fighting off element.
yeah i ran jade a lot and the turbulence and the enemies in this moc play well with her. but the second they pull out aventurine again its over lmao. thats why moc is such a weird be all end all end game since its been known to feature one boss and then the next throws 5 swarm on the screen at you.
and also I think you forgot Seele in your list of characters good in every mode? She's pretty good in all 3 I think, I had similar success with Seele and Xueyi in MOC and Apoc (Xueyi actually won in both slightly despite being off element for MOC and also my Seele is E1S1 so its a bit... traumatizing) while Xueyi definite beast in FUA PF she doesnt perform as well with other blessings, unlike Seele.
i can see how thats the case with seele but i wasnt sure on it, again AS is so weird and new that you might as well put all of them as yellow atp lol. as for xueyi she doesnt care about enemy count checks or what game mode it is, her only check is quantum weakness lol.
I wanna say people who struggle as a day 1 player have skill issues… Ive played for 4-5 MONTHS and was able to clear MOC and PF full stars. AS 10* cause sustains are built like trash. Like people complaining about relic luck is exactly why you cant clear. Lvl up your supports and sustains, and lvl up their traces then farm for relics. You really need 70/130-140 to clear endgame content and some speed tuning for your supports. Dont obsess over perfect relics. It makes me mad people complain about game modes while having lvl 60-70 supports/tanks and lvl 0 relics on them with 0 speed tuning
(I'm very biased) but i think its unfair that people complain about pf being a character check when everything else is pushing the break meta so hard rn. I just think moc and as have the same amount of character check just that people tend to go for those units anyway. Which is not my case. I love using erudition and dot and havent pulled for ff because i dont like her character, thus pf has always been my favorite mode. I tried but didnt manage to clear as witout a single break unit. Had to put hmc on one team.. but maybe thats just my skill issue. Good video! I like debating about this stuff
for this break focus moc ive ran full crit based teams on side 1 and side 2 with less issue than the dot pf having only 1 side be crit. and i didnt disagree in the video, as is also a character check at least from the only one that we have so far. its definitely not easy either and actually emphasizes the timing aspect of break.
wanna correct you on your character chart dhil works in apoc shadow i know bc i used him against argenti there he's extremely useful and since he's useful jingliu should be just as good also firefly works in all game modes very easily since she can advance herself forward and implants that fire weakness and she gets her ult very easily so even if the enemies don't get the weakness implant she'll still shred the toughness bar as long as the enemies don't lock it (i've seen firefly havers do this and my god she's broken) edit: i didn't notice topaz had a yellow bar for moc she works great there too you just need to pair her with ratio or now himeko bc she's doing great in moc currently as well but topaz does struggle in pf still for obvious reasons that doesn't stop some ppl from using her ofc but it's not as effiecient as plugging himeko and herta or adding jade now
for topaz' case i wasn't really sure about AS in general since Superbreak is sold so much here. and in moc with the past present and future recently i was expecting a lot more usage from her, so i had a suspicion she had some problems i wasnt thinking of (i dont play topaz) so i put in yellow just to make sure.
we recenttly got the fix for acheron in pf that being Jiaoqui where she can no confidently be played into every endgame mode without much loss since jiaoqui also makes her aoe dps better for moc/apoc shadow too vs characters like silver wolf
I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking Pure Fiction is actually harder than MoC. I can 3* MoC12 pretty easily, but when it comes to getting 3* its a lot harder (mostly due to only having one really strong PF team that has to pick up the slack for my weaker one) Honestly Jade gets too much hate in general. Yes she's not a universal character that'll do almost anything you want her to do (even though MoC use is possible with her even at E0 if you're dedicated), but she still has a strong niche. I think people just don't realize that every account is different in terms of characters and how well they can 3* the endgame modes. For some, Jade is an amazing addition to their account, while for others, she'd be a little redundant. Honestly if I didn't go all in for Firefly, I'd have pulled her since a quantum character with good pf performance is something my account would like a lot.
I accidentally got jade and I think she's a decent pull since as soon as you have her pf becomes a joke and your able to focus on the other endgame more since I got 60k on final stage with her without activating any of the main bonus traces (eg 50% action adv)
Jing Yuan I'd consider good on all three modes despite not being the best option for any tbh. I tried him in AS and I was pleasantly surprised how well he did granted LL bounce rng was a bit annoying but otherwise strong, it's also interesting to mention he doesn't use the same team in any of the modes. In PF, he's the AOE enabler for the PF girlies usually with an AOE buffer or two. In MoC, he uses the hypercarry TY Sparkle team (Or Robin Aven for low cycles). And finally in AS, I had most success using him alongside Gallagher Robin and Silverwolf (It sounds insane but Robin is enough of a buff to help JY clear adds with his skill and ult, while Gallagher and SW help witth breaking Cocolia. LL stacks aren't that much of an issue despite no consistent turn advance and energy because allies get hit so often that they regen enough energy for me to get an ult per rotation for 8 stacks which can either do a lot of toughness damage or damage when Cocolia is broken.) He's very versatile in team options, which helps him be flexible in the modes
I would absolutely pull for jade since my account really struggles with PF but since i pulled for both ruan mei and e1 firefly im low on jades and especially so with a possible hou hou rerun soon and feixiao getting revealed, the number 1 thing I've wanted since day one of me playing is a foxian dps so i kinda have to pull for feixiao
Build and properly gear your Herta/Clara/Himeko. I own no other DOT or follow up units besides the ones i just mentioned and PF has been no issue, been 12 starring on Auto. Although my relic quality is extremely high, so theres that.
The main diff for me is that building a MoC/AS team will still help me for story content, while building for PF doesn't seem to benefit me outside of PF
Fortunately, the previous PF also had characters who want to get hit benefit from dot buffs. Clara carried the second half. I couldn't make Blade work but there are players who did
Id be interested in a video in how all dpss fair in game modes not made for them to excell in. I understand acheron and FF can work in about all of them as long as supprts are present but seele in PF or Argenti in AS when rhere are no ads is interesting
I cant help but notice that although break is super important in AS for now the rules for the game mode that make break important do seem to be formatted in such a way to give the impression its a temporary feature and not a core feature of the game mode. Its sure seems like hoyo can just pull the rug out from under us after heavily investing in break. Not that i think that break is only good because the current AS rules, but it does appear that hoyo can replace those rules at anytime.
When the game was new you could get away with using the same two teams for everything, but the roster and enemy mechanics/stage buffs have expanded and require roster diversity. The only people mad they are stuck somewhere are the ones that put all their eggs in the hypercarry destruction basket.
I'd argue that Firefly can work in all three. Not saying that she'll be the best in PF but her performance with Himeko can definitely be felt there since she contributes so much toughness damage to trigger Himeko's passive almost consistently plus the fact that she can insta-clear enemies in a new cycle
dhil is more than qualified to be green for AS, just because the game mode buffs break dps doesnt mean other dps archtypes suck there. he also has high break efficiency so he clears AS really comfortably
I've posted a lot of discussion on this in various places, but I view Pure Fiction as being a very "Action Economy" dependent game mode. Characters that can take more actions perform better in the mode, largely independently from their damage potential inside of those actions. They need to be able to do "enough" damage with the actions, but doing 1 million damage in an action isn't necessarily better than doing 100k damage in an action, at least within the context of Pure Fiction. If everything is dying to 200k damage, then being able to do 800k damage on a Acheron ult doesn't really matter. Acheron can function in PF with Black Swan or some other comps because she can "gain" extra Ults via debuff stacking. Firefly is decent at PF at E2, but is pretty mediocre at E0. Himeko and Herta are top tier because it is very easy to trigger additional actions via their FUAs. Jade is obviously top tier because of her FUA frequency. Boothill is terrible in PF because he is single target and lacks the ability to perform multiple actions. Argenti is amazing in Pure Fiction because his Talent and Trace provide an insane amount of energy, so he can perform multiple Ults very quickly. DOT characters can work under the right circumstance because the "DOT Damage" can be viewed as an additional action of sorts whenever it triggers. In terms of supports, Huohuo and Aventurine are arguably at the top because Aventurine has FUAs and Huohuo can battery additional Ults, which are bonus actions. Sparkle is pretty solid because she can Action Advance, which gives your Damage Dealer additional actions, and she trivializes the Skill Point economy, which means you can freely spam skills to charge more Ults which are bonus actions. However, there is a clear delineation with certain characters where they have clear limits within that framework. Acheron is quite literally only as good as how quickly you can spam her Ult. If you cannot charge Ults fast enough to spam, her utility in Pure Fiction falls off a cliff. And applying Debuffs has clear limits because you almost universally need to take an action with another character in order to apply more debuffs. Barring more characters that are able to repeatedly apply debuffs without taking an action (similar to what Black Swan can do with Arcana via her Talent, and even that requires setup that can be clunky inside of Pure Fiction), it is hard to achieve the necessary Ult velocity to make Acheron work. Firefly needs E2 for the Action Advance, but even that has limits because it can only occur 1 time per turn, which means that there is a hard limit on the number of bonus actions she can receive. And if you don't have the ability to achieve a Break on each turn because Hoyo decided to throw several Elites out that take several hits to break, it becomes even more difficult. DOT teams with Black Swan + Kafka can function in the right circumstances, but can struggle with reapplying DOTs to waves of enemies. Jade sits in a place where she is arguably the single best character in the game at this particular niche. Unlike Herta and Himeko that have conditions for triggering that can be rather easily missed which can severely hamper their effectiveness (Herta would be worse against waves of high HP Elites because it is harder to bring them down to 50% for her trigger. Himeko would be worse against non-Fire weak enemies or against Elites with a High Toughness, as it is harder to break them), Jade by comparison only cares about how many enemies are hit by her Debt Collector, and only really has upside if her Debt Collector gets bonus actions. In a hypothetic Herta + Jade team against high HP Elites, Herta can Skill to AOE, but miss the FUA due to not getting the enemies to 50% HP, then Jade can basic attack and is practically guaranteed to be at 8 stacks by that point, which will trigger her FUA, which can possibly trigger Herta's FUA, which will give Jade more stacks towards another FUA. Then you start getting into overstacking with Jade triggers, which increases the frequency of the FUAs. Then you start adding in Ults from Herta and Jade, both of which also increase stacks which trigger even more FUAs. Nothing that occurs can result in a circumstance where Jade doesn't advance towards another FUA. The only thing that slows her down is if there are no more enemies to hit, which generally doesn't happen in Pure Fiction. Herta can completely miss out on a FUA if the Blessing is the thing that brings an enemy below 50% HP. Himeko can completely miss out on a FUA if an enemy dies without being Weakness Broken. Acheron + Black Swan misses out on Ult velocity if an enemy dies before their DOT triggers at the start of their turn. Jade only has upside if her Debt Collector gets bonus actions, so that means that she can be paired with practically anyone that you expect to get lots of bonus actions. Yunli? Going to be amazing paired with Jade. Argenti? Is great paired with Jade due to his high Ult velocity. Any future unit that has Action Advance or Blast/AOE FUA? Will be great paired with Jade. And if you get Jade's E1, she suddenly works with basically anyone that can get bonus actions or even single target FUAs, and it increases her viability in modes outside of Pure Fiction by a substantial margin. Now, in fairness, you are not always going to want an AOE sub-DPS, so Jade is not entirely universal. But any content where you believe that the Debt Collector will be take a lot of actions and AOE damage is beneficial, Jade only has upside. And that is true for any unit that is ever made in the future. The more that any future unit can conceivably be triggered to take bonus attacks via any mechanism, the better Jade will be when paired with that unit.
I think you’ve got it the wrong way round. Hoyo didn’t create an endgame mode (PF) and then release characters made for it - the game started with erudition characters, then Hoyo added PF afterwards otherwise people would have no reason to use erudition in endgame
yeah argenti and jingyuan was released first before pf (altho idk if jy is good for pf tho) you can also e4 herta trough simU and day1 players have a free serval
I pulled for Jade only to get an E2 Bronya im not even using anymore. Honestly, screw all those people that said that Bronya is the only right choice for the 300 5 star selector, Himeko would have benefitted my account far better.
im very much erudition pilled so PF is hella easy since i just mix match jingyuan himeko argenti jade and herta regardless of type lmao. only worth sustain to use is aventurine who is my fav so ofc i got him and he's rly good in DoT and FUA especially, and then i use tingyun robin and rm for guaranteed 40k. I havent not gotten 80k but its rly clear that pf is just the character check mode Also for any PF, the strongest character is bar none robin girl AA is alr strong in other modes but uts outright cheating in PF its like 3 extra free cycles even not counting her buffs
Jade is great, will probably auto 40k PF for a while, so that's easy 800 jades every patch. I cleared MoC with her at the same speed as Jingliu, after getting her E1 she cleared it 1 cycle faster. Didn't try her in AS because I hate that mode.
I'm one of the people that pulled for jade and I don't even think she is that strong but the "she's only good in one game mode" argument is so tired and unfair cause the same could be said for a lot of destruction and hunt characters outside of moc but no one cares
I have played the game fairly religiously from launch week to about 1.4 but then quit because I was kinda playing two MMOs on top and it was becoming too much. I came back last week just as Firefly banner was closing out, I lost the 50/50 and I ALMOST went all in on Jade because I do have a decently built Blade and would've loved to see them synergyze nicely, but meh, saving my pulls for supports that I am so severely lacking since Ruan Mei, Robin, Sparkle completely outclass Tingyun and Bronya...
I feel some of this evaluations at the end are weird, for example Clara vs Argenti the only time Argenti is better than Clara by a significant amount is PF if you see the avg cycles over time in MoC and the recent AS Clara both are basically clearing and getting the same amount of points (clara clear in avg .1 cycles faster in MoC and Argenti gain 100 points more than Clara in AS). So Idk why she won't be good in all 3 modes but Argenti is. Similar to Topaz here when she has been a very reliable MoC unit. Granted you can argue Clara with Topaz or Topaz with Ratio are why they are as reliable as dual dps but the same apply to Argenti in terms of having to pull for limited support to reach that reliable performance, same for Black Swan where a lot of her performance is basically tied to be in the same team as Kafka, with Acheron or both. That's why I think is better to look into this in terms of teams more than the characters in a vacuum, I think when you do that then Jade is not as valuable (different to strong) than other units, if you don't have a PF team that reliable clears it Jade is really good but if you have 1 team that is reliable in clearing PF then Jade value drops in considering you can get other units that enable teams that can clear pf slower or with less point but are a lot more reliable than Jade in the other end game modes. But I agree there is very little units that can clear all modes reliable at least not without a good amount of investment (other limited units, really good relics, limited LCs) but I also think out of the 3 end game modes PF feels is the easiest to clear since the rotation between dot and fua bias allows 4* teams with f2p LCs and ok level of talents and relics to clear abusing those blessings. At the end of the day is very very account specific, like for example I have cleared all content since the launch using Clara and I have limited units that allow me to go over the weaknesses of her kit and the fact that I have farm so much for her in terms of relics she clears faster or as fast as Acheron for example because I don't have the same level of investment.
Clara's problem is that even though theres many enemies, its not a guarantee that they will attack. even in the current pf with the swarm bugs you quickly see why this is a problem while argenti isnt bound by it. and in cocolia as you get frozen if you dont output enough damage that isnt bound by a counter. and the argenti as has adds that straight up never attack you, so it becomes an st fight in practice for counter units.
funny that you said that btw because this video was spawned out of my f2p account that started on december last year clearing every moc after i got acheron. now its only a few days after release. but for pf? i have herta and himeko but i still only clear it when theres only like 1 week or less left at the event. it feels *really* bad. meanwhile ive just been sleeping through moc. character check content on a f2p account is by nature harder than moc which is an investment check. and i feel like these days moc is overvalued because of that.
legit the only time I ever struggled was in dot pf, I had no dot units at all and no acheron, it was pure pain and I had to do it with jingyuan and himeko
It's less of a question of "is she good" and more one of "is she worth it" sadly the answer is no, it's basically a only pf char that while amazing there can be fucled up by rotating buffs like herta and hime, and while you could say she's better than the former you don't choose to get either, you get herta e6 guaranteed and you get or not himeko, and at the end of the day chars that are good im pf will probably fail in the other modes, while moc chars will probably perform very well on as, chars that can perform better in those 2 modes will end up in more jades than a pf only char, and for newer players especially they will need to grind hard for.moc and as teams
herta against a dot pf feels bad, himeko against no fire weak and the right checks is almost unusable. pf is so stingy in blessings that a character being so overkill theyre fine without it is valuable. and they have never changed enemy count that theres virtually no checks for jade. moc is a mode that changes a lot and they deviate from 1-5 enemies, pretty much any dps cant guarantee their worth there (unless youre acheron whos meh at pf without swan). so why fixate on it right?
@@waveman047 you can probably do 1 star on stage 4 without much effort if you invest enough regardless on buff, i feel playes will have a way harder time cleaning as and pf floors, so doing a jade investment on pf seems lower prio as it's the easier mode of the 3, just trying to maximize the ammounts of jades
Idk I always felt like PF is by far, and I mean really far the easiest of the three. You only need Herta + one or 2 limited harmony (which are the most valuable unit to pull anyway) and it's free 40k. After that you only need 20k on the other side which is pretty easy even with bad PF units. Of course it requires you to build Herta, but at the end of the day it is still a free unit.
Its not... I can clear Apocalyptic Shadows and MOC easy, but i cant even go past 40k in the current PF. For reference, i have Firefly, JL, Kafka Black Swan, Sparkle, Ruan Mei, Fuxuan, etc. Worst part is that the first chamber in PF 4 would have been fodder for my E3 Clara is it wasnt for the fact that the second wave is filled with enemies that DONT ACTIVATE HER COUNTER.
@@MrcreeperDXD777 If you work on improving your Herta gear you should be able to clear it. Unfortunatly the best harmonie for PF is the one you don't have, Robin, but Sparkle RM also do the job. But you still have a large margin of improvement on your relics, to give you an idea, mine with really good relics has 75/190 with Himeko's LC (2p2p2p ice, musketeer, salsato) (when I play her, otherwise other characters uses the relics). Maybe try playing around using other characters' relics, in PF I find it really efficient to all in for 40k one side and 20k the other.
I personally hate it so much when the whole fandom just dooms a character and says "well we don't like her" even before said character's release, guys since when it's become so serious? not everyone has all the units in the game so why not discuss a whole new unit that might become some players' favorite character? "easy skip" get a life is my reply to all those people screaming how bad a char is as if their life depends on 3000% minmaxing. I for now skip everyone after getting robin just so I can save a lot for sunday, badly want him on my account no matter if his damage or buff is just like that loufu fish ultimate - just pure NOTHING. and this is how I play the game, not any superior new damage sealing can advertise a character to me if I just don't like them for who they are, tho in my case I love many chars in hoyo popular big 3 and wuwa, I am f2p tho so it's challenging for me, having to choose how to spend very limited resource, still it's very cool of a soft challenge. for now Sunday is the first character for who I started saving this early before his banner (which I have no idea when can even occur, no spoilers everyone pls) since Wriothesley from genshin for who I waited just two months, back then I thought two months were insane time for saving... naive ijbol. but in comparison to me some players completely ignore lore and personalities of characters just for numbers... how do they do that? is this "competition" of getting all the stars in a phase of a mode that interesting? I myself if can't clear something just look at stats to see if I can improve anything and leave if I can't change it. that's it, I can accept defeat and not bother with trying to beat everything at all cost. it's fascinating how one game can be understood this differently by various people with different tastes and backgrounds thats for sure but I hope all those silly people who use to sh-- on characters for their "weaknesses" 24/7 will still get a life worthy of living outside of those goddamn games idk man ugh
there are players who skip story and only there for the gameplay therefore they want all the strong units to clear all the modes, there are players like you who heavily cares about lore and story and it doesn't matter how strong a unit is if they hate that character in the story, then there are players Iike me who is a mix of both: we always follow the story and lore and once that's done we dedicate the majority of the time minmaxing for end game while waiting for the new patch.
I genuinely disagree with the fact that PF is the good endgame. Anyone who pulled for Argenti or Jade and have Herta maxed just know that this whole PF is a clown fiesta. Little to zero speed tuning needed. And getting 60k really isnt hard. I think they should up it to 70k if you guys want it to be at least challenging.
The problem is PF, it's a character-check. Erudition is sadly, designed specifically for PF. They need to start designing erudition characters around other game modes, and stop putting their fixes and QoL in the erudition character eidolons because most other character types don't need their eidolons to function properly in content outside of PF.
They've already done that with Argenti, haven't they? He does pretty well in MoC, in fact I dare say he does much better than Jade in MoCs that aren't even suited for him. Mainly because his teams are easy to build. Plus Tingyun and HuoHuo synergise with him very well.
Jade is good but she is a mommy, so not my taste. Waiting for an aoe erudition that looks like Sushang. Anyway herta/himeko/ Clara have been getting me 80k in PF ( all except once with 70k+) So I am still surviving in PF without pulling for an erudition unit so far.
After some deliberations I changed my mind about the stuff I listed in the end.
1. For AS in General, it's so new and weird that i consider it all yellow now.
2. Seele - I wasn't entirely sure if she performed well in AS. But thanks to my previous statement I should mention her being good at PF and a little yellow for MoC (since theres stuff like the Past Present anf Future bosses running around)
3. Topaz - She wasn't really fairly rated here as a sub-dps. I should've put green in MoC and PF since it depends on the main DPS being good for it, and not really Topaz' liability to deal with.
Overall, the characters that are only good at the two end game types are ones with many attacks and enemy count agnostic.
This includes Firefly since she's so fast, and Xueyi. But both really need their respective weaknesses in PF.
Similarly for Acheron she needs Black Swan for PF but otherwise can handle any enemy count for MoC. Same with Topaz who depends on the other DPS.
So the only ones left are the specific DPS liks Black Swan and Argenti that gets away with it lmao. If Blade's numbers weren't so low I'd praise him more but sadly we don't have furina yet.
Consider also that some characters abruptly change their playstyles based on eidolons.
DHIL are meh in PF, but at E2 he's actually quite good at it especially with er rope. Firefly at E2 with hyperspeed bronya will destroy PF waves like she's in SU with that 3* hunt blessing. Boothill at E6 unlocks destruction mode. Acheron at E2 is more flexible in team comps, might allow for better result in PF.
The reverse can also happen. Jade at E1 is suddenly not that bad in single target.
This doesn't apply to all characters. Jingliu, our resident omnipotent dps, doesn't change her meh status in PF even with E6, because her eidolons don't change her gameplay much, they just make her hits harder. Dr. Ratio remains single target in his entire career. Argenti is the same for single target.
Blade... is Blade, sadly :(
I don't think always keeping to E0 in discussion is good, because at one point, players with maturing account, even pure f2ps, will have to make decisions on their eidolon choices, and some characters arguably have more valuable eidolons than others. And having old characters that, with enough eidolons, can withstand the test of time will be cheaper than pulling every single new characters just for keeping up with the current "meta".
I honestly think PF's reputation as the "easy" endgame mode is almost purely based on the fact that the first 2 PF cycles were very easy. Ever since that DoT PF it's been obvious that Hoyo is turning up the challenge on the mode.
IMO, the high difficulty of AS was a reaction to how PF went. They want people to take it seriously, so they made the first one very hard to make sure the community knows what's up.
That DOT PF was the first time I felt frustrated playing HSR lol.
For some reason most players dont want to admit if theyre struggling in pf, its like they dont even consider it as important as the other modes eventho it has the same amount of rewards. Not to mention that despite what they say, most of the "broken" dps are horrible in pf, even Acheron and Firefly are carried by dot and Himeko respectively. Btw its nice to see someone with unbiased views in terms of this topic
Even i have the meta dps i am struggling in pf since i have no dot comp and my argenti build is crap since my tingyun is not that good build if it's not fua pf can't 12 star minimum of 11
True, for me am not afraid to admit I feel like PF is the hardest of all, I aredy max star in MOC and AS but am still struggling to max star in PF but consider mayby am struggling so must is because i build so many characters but never build a single erudition character probably (cause am broke) 😂😂😂
PF favour off-turn damage and probably forever like that, due to it's about clearing mob and not sheer damage. Which is why Follow-Up and DoT are naturally favour.
So FF struggle would be expected, since she has no off-turn damage. Acheron take time to charge Ult.
@@silvalgalewalker503 luckily i have all fua attackers except for jade but i have no single dot so i am planning to get blackswan at her rerun since they say it's 2.4 and if lucky enough also jiaojiu idk the spelling but the fox guy
@@emmirbynuestro9726 Yeah, DoT would be a good investment. Jiaoqui, idk how to spell his name either, I also think about pulling for him too. I need another team wide support.
My only problem with end game mode is that you can clear AS and MoC with any unit you have as long as you build well but PF is slowly becoming "Pull for this character or you won't get full rewards". Like seriously especially when it's a dot centric cycle it's so miserable to clear
Yea it’s infuriating the enemies are just so banner specific I can’t do anything
100% agree.
Day 1 FTP player here who can barely get 60k
On stage 3 of pure fiction 💀
It often caters so much to DoT and FuA, just the types I have not invested well in or do not have the characters (No Kafka or BS)! I invested mostly in DHIL, Acheron, and Firefly. I do have Argenti and Himeko built ok but I’ve had trouble building them due to bad crit relic luck and I have ZERO patience and will to build Herta for the same reason, especially since I’m broke from splurging on Firefly’s whole team. Clara is decent but inconsistent.
Crit is such a pain. It’s why I got Firefly, and I’m glad I did. Had such an easier time building her.
It’s basically that if the buffs cater to my characters, I can clear but if they don’t, I simply just can’t and it all falls off a cliff.
At least brute forcing with pure stats alone can be a thing in MoC and AS.
End game mode in HSR is basically Kafka/BS DoT team, Acheron, and Firefly. If you have those 3 teams you can beat MoC, PF, and AS forever. Anyone else is trash, except destruction waifus.
@@stanliu6885Me only doing 50k this PF with FF and DoT team ☠️☠️
@@stanliu6885 the hell is this dogshit take omg
As someone who doesn't have Black Swan or Kafka, I always die a little inside when there is a DoT focused endgame mode. My only built DoT character is Sampo (｡•́︿•̀｡)
Considering that Pure Fiction and MoC give equal rewards (this Pure Fiction cycle actually gives more), I think both should be given equal priority. With that said, the top Pure Fiction DPS is a 4* character, so of course people are gonna look at Jade with the bombastic side eye when deciding to pull.
As for the "good in all 3" character endgame modes, I do wanna shout out Seele as being a good candidate. Her 20% Quantum Res Pen helps her brute force MoC content, especially when there are adds, and she does well against Cocolia in Apocalyptic Shadow too, only lagging behind Acheron, Firefly, and Boothill.
However, her real strength comes in Pure Fiction, where her Resurgence is able to proc multiple times and kill multiple enemies. It's very much a "feast or famine" playstyle where you NEED a certain amount of damage to get those resets, but once you do (aided by characters like Tingyun, Robin, Sparkle, and Ruan Mei), it becomes really easy to lap around and take your turns multiple times, especially with the help of something like 4 pc Eagle.
i was initially thinking of seele but i wasnt confident enough on my assessment lol, the last phase that had like 5 adds sounded improbable
E1 Jade with Seele feels like overkill but I'd love to try that out
I would say hanya is almost necessary too for such a selee because she is the only unit to give an extra point right when selee's turn is still up
@@bangtanssera Not necessarily, using Basics is essential to Seele's kit because it gives her 20% Advance Forward. Seele + Bronya is definitely too SP heavy, but just Seele hypercarry can make up for her high SP consumption with a mix of Skills and Basics.
Seele is very skill intensive in PF which may make her less PF focused than intended, but she is rly good albeit high investment needed however
Jade doesnt underperfom in other modes or is at worst on par or better than other erudition characters. Her being able to played as a sub dps and sp positive is also a huge Bonus. I was surprised how well she did honestly considering how ppl doomposted her outside of pf. There is def smth hypocritical w/ ppl when it comes to dps checks. Jl and dhil are still considered Prime dps even tho honestly unless you got their key Upgrades (lc and Supps like sparkle) they feel horrible to play. They dont even perform well in pf and as (yet). I dont remember the last time I used JL outside of one lower moc floor. Anyways, im not saying they are unusable but some ppl seem to want to commit to a status quo where moc is still the only Mode that matters and these two were at their Prime. Sorry guys but we now need to start pulling many chars depending on Individual performances in each Mode now! Also AS was really hard for me to clear at first but I found a strat eventually. But I hate that Mode lol
I really get the feeling that for the new MoC rotation they're gonna make the Abundance Deer or the Swarm the final fight, to really sell Jade, since it would be her perfect scenario.
Jade and other full AOE centric units have never been "bad" for MoC as much as they've been conditioned into only specific fights.
And Jade's raw numbers are very insane, her only problem would be that she kills the adds too fast and wouldn't be able to farm them for FUA triggers to deal even more damage to the main boss. lol
At least on her Rerun. At E1 Jade becomes very Usable in MOC.
Love this video. This community acts like PF is a no brainer ez all stars clear but really no it's just not that simple. Black Swan single handedly ruined PF because DoT PF is borderline unplayable without her due to how weak you are. Followup PFs are balanced around followup *spammers* specifically and if you don't have any of those built then you are in for pain. Ultimate PFs are just Argenti and Jing Yuan, Himeko, and Herta to a lesser extent. Personally I think for an account they should focus on what PF asks of you because it has the stricted requirements in terms of "use X Y Z characters or you aren't getting full stars". Unless the PF carry you have in mind's name starts with an H or her name is Jade, they're a very serviceable unit in MoC and AS too.
For DoT PF, Clara and Aventurine does wonders bcs they're damage quickly adds up and for Aventurine specifically you're using the only sustain worth it on PF and he gets more stacks bcs of enemy AA
People don't want to build herta , himeko. Don't want to summon argenti, jade . And complain. What's the point of different game mode if your jl and il clears all.
Tell that to a brand new player. Have to build and pull characters for all 3 mods plus supports. And get two teams for each. Good luck if you don't get the unit you need, lose a 50/50, and or the unit is limited and no current banner.
Appreciate you giving Argenti some love in this video! Our Knight of Beauty! 🌹
for me, PF is always the hardest one. himeko/herta definetly clear the first node, but the problem is the second node, I used someone like clara hyper and it barely clear.
For MOC, I clear it pretty good from the moment I got Jingliu to this day, I clear like 4 - 9 cycle.
AS pretty hard as well, FF clears the first node but the 2nd node I need to rely on its gimmick more but still clear.
Great vid as usual, but I kind of want to point out that she actually performs exceptionally well in current MOC (even off element vs Argenti) and Apoc (Cocolia). SPD is very important and Jade has huge self buffs and multipliers For example look at her talent multiplier its 120-200% and huge self buffs (120% CD, 25% ATK), this is more than other erudition units and it does not cost AP.
Personally I pulled her E1S0 for Blade and I was prepared for her to be pretty mid, but after testing her out in MOC/Apoc I am shocked at how good she is. For example My Jingliu running Ruan + TY/Pela + FuXuan 2 cycle Argenti, while using Jade in place of TY I can reliably 1 cycle. But, of course I can 0 cycle with Bronya so you might say its still not BiS option. I also tried other combinations such as Jade + Clara, Jade + Blade and some others and results are equal or better than running extra harmony even when fighting off element.
yeah i ran jade a lot and the turbulence and the enemies in this moc play well with her. but the second they pull out aventurine again its over lmao. thats why moc is such a weird be all end all end game since its been known to feature one boss and then the next throws 5 swarm on the screen at you.
and also I think you forgot Seele in your list of characters good in every mode? She's pretty good in all 3 I think, I had similar success with Seele and Xueyi in MOC and Apoc (Xueyi actually won in both slightly despite being off element for MOC and also my Seele is E1S1 so its a bit... traumatizing) while Xueyi definite beast in FUA PF she doesnt perform as well with other blessings, unlike Seele.
i can see how thats the case with seele but i wasnt sure on it, again AS is so weird and new that you might as well put all of them as yellow atp lol.
as for xueyi she doesnt care about enemy count checks or what game mode it is, her only check is quantum weakness lol.
Great video. I did get Jade and no regrets at all. Used her in all game modes and she’s been great, and obviously in Pure Fiction she’s just amazing.
I wanna say people who struggle as a day 1 player have skill issues… Ive played for 4-5 MONTHS and was able to clear MOC and PF full stars. AS 10* cause sustains are built like trash. Like people complaining about relic luck is exactly why you cant clear. Lvl up your supports and sustains, and lvl up their traces then farm for relics. You really need 70/130-140 to clear endgame content and some speed tuning for your supports. Dont obsess over perfect relics. It makes me mad people complain about game modes while having lvl 60-70 supports/tanks and lvl 0 relics on them with 0 speed tuning
(I'm very biased) but i think its unfair that people complain about pf being a character check when everything else is pushing the break meta so hard rn. I just think moc and as have the same amount of character check just that people tend to go for those units anyway. Which is not my case. I love using erudition and dot and havent pulled for ff because i dont like her character, thus pf has always been my favorite mode. I tried but didnt manage to clear as witout a single break unit. Had to put hmc on one team.. but maybe thats just my skill issue.
Good video! I like debating about this stuff
for this break focus moc ive ran full crit based teams on side 1 and side 2 with less issue than the dot pf having only 1 side be crit.
and i didnt disagree in the video, as is also a character check at least from the only one that we have so far. its definitely not easy either and actually emphasizes the timing aspect of break.
wanna correct you on your character chart dhil works in apoc shadow i know bc i used him against argenti there he's extremely useful and since he's useful jingliu should be just as good also firefly works in all game modes very easily since she can advance herself forward and implants that fire weakness and she gets her ult very easily so even if the enemies don't get the weakness implant she'll still shred the toughness bar as long as the enemies don't lock it (i've seen firefly havers do this and my god she's broken)
edit: i didn't notice topaz had a yellow bar for moc she works great there too you just need to pair her with ratio or now himeko bc she's doing great in moc currently as well but topaz does struggle in pf still for obvious reasons that doesn't stop some ppl from using her ofc but it's not as effiecient as plugging himeko and herta or adding jade now
for topaz' case i wasn't really sure about AS in general since Superbreak is sold so much here.
and in moc with the past present and future recently i was expecting a lot more usage from her, so i had a suspicion she had some problems i wasnt thinking of (i dont play topaz) so i put in yellow just to make sure.
we recenttly got the fix for acheron in pf that being Jiaoqui where she can no confidently be played into every endgame mode without much loss since jiaoqui also makes her aoe dps better for moc/apoc shadow too vs characters like silver wolf
I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking Pure Fiction is actually harder than MoC. I can 3* MoC12 pretty easily, but when it comes to getting 3* its a lot harder (mostly due to only having one really strong PF team that has to pick up the slack for my weaker one)
Honestly Jade gets too much hate in general. Yes she's not a universal character that'll do almost anything you want her to do (even though MoC use is possible with her even at E0 if you're dedicated), but she still has a strong niche.
I think people just don't realize that every account is different in terms of characters and how well they can 3* the endgame modes. For some, Jade is an amazing addition to their account, while for others, she'd be a little redundant. Honestly if I didn't go all in for Firefly, I'd have pulled her since a quantum character with good pf performance is something my account would like a lot.
I accidentally got jade and I think she's a decent pull since as soon as you have her pf becomes a joke and your able to focus on the other endgame more since I got 60k on final stage with her without activating any of the main bonus traces (eg 50% action adv)
Jing Yuan I'd consider good on all three modes despite not being the best option for any tbh. I tried him in AS and I was pleasantly surprised how well he did granted LL bounce rng was a bit annoying but otherwise strong, it's also interesting to mention he doesn't use the same team in any of the modes.
In PF, he's the AOE enabler for the PF girlies usually with an AOE buffer or two. In MoC, he uses the hypercarry TY Sparkle team (Or Robin Aven for low cycles). And finally in AS, I had most success using him alongside Gallagher Robin and Silverwolf (It sounds insane but Robin is enough of a buff to help JY clear adds with his skill and ult, while Gallagher and SW help witth breaking Cocolia. LL stacks aren't that much of an issue despite no consistent turn advance and energy because allies get hit so often that they regen enough energy for me to get an ult per rotation for 8 stacks which can either do a lot of toughness damage or damage when Cocolia is broken.)
He's very versatile in team options, which helps him be flexible in the modes
I knew the moment you made this video title, the jade simps would come swarming in, good luck brother
I would absolutely pull for jade since my account really struggles with PF but since i pulled for both ruan mei and e1 firefly im low on jades and especially so with a possible hou hou rerun soon and feixiao getting revealed, the number 1 thing I've wanted since day one of me playing is a foxian dps so i kinda have to pull for feixiao
Build and properly gear your Herta/Clara/Himeko. I own no other DOT or follow up units besides the ones i just mentioned and PF has been no issue, been 12 starring on Auto. Although my relic quality is extremely high, so theres that.
The main diff for me is that building a MoC/AS team will still help me for story content, while building for PF doesn't seem to benefit me outside of PF
Fortunately, the previous PF also had characters who want to get hit benefit from dot buffs.
Clara carried the second half. I couldn't make Blade work but there are players who did
Id be interested in a video in how all dpss fair in game modes not made for them to excell in. I understand acheron and FF can work in about all of them as long as supprts are present but seele in PF or Argenti in AS when rhere are no ads is interesting
2:04 we do have seele as a hunt who works pretty well in pf
I cant help but notice that although break is super important in AS for now the rules for the game mode that make break important do seem to be formatted in such a way to give the impression its a temporary feature and not a core feature of the game mode. Its sure seems like hoyo can just pull the rug out from under us after heavily investing in break. Not that i think that break is only good because the current AS rules, but it does appear that hoyo can replace those rules at anytime.
When the game was new you could get away with using the same two teams for everything, but the roster and enemy mechanics/stage buffs have expanded and require roster diversity. The only people mad they are stuck somewhere are the ones that put all their eggs in the hypercarry destruction basket.
I'd argue that Firefly can work in all three. Not saying that she'll be the best in PF but her performance with Himeko can definitely be felt there since she contributes so much toughness damage to trigger Himeko's passive almost consistently plus the fact that she can insta-clear enemies in a new cycle
dhil is more than qualified to be green for AS, just because the game mode buffs break dps doesnt mean other dps archtypes suck there. he also has high break efficiency so he clears AS really comfortably
I've posted a lot of discussion on this in various places, but I view Pure Fiction as being a very "Action Economy" dependent game mode. Characters that can take more actions perform better in the mode, largely independently from their damage potential inside of those actions. They need to be able to do "enough" damage with the actions, but doing 1 million damage in an action isn't necessarily better than doing 100k damage in an action, at least within the context of Pure Fiction. If everything is dying to 200k damage, then being able to do 800k damage on a Acheron ult doesn't really matter. Acheron can function in PF with Black Swan or some other comps because she can "gain" extra Ults via debuff stacking. Firefly is decent at PF at E2, but is pretty mediocre at E0. Himeko and Herta are top tier because it is very easy to trigger additional actions via their FUAs. Jade is obviously top tier because of her FUA frequency. Boothill is terrible in PF because he is single target and lacks the ability to perform multiple actions. Argenti is amazing in Pure Fiction because his Talent and Trace provide an insane amount of energy, so he can perform multiple Ults very quickly. DOT characters can work under the right circumstance because the "DOT Damage" can be viewed as an additional action of sorts whenever it triggers. In terms of supports, Huohuo and Aventurine are arguably at the top because Aventurine has FUAs and Huohuo can battery additional Ults, which are bonus actions. Sparkle is pretty solid because she can Action Advance, which gives your Damage Dealer additional actions, and she trivializes the Skill Point economy, which means you can freely spam skills to charge more Ults which are bonus actions.
However, there is a clear delineation with certain characters where they have clear limits within that framework. Acheron is quite literally only as good as how quickly you can spam her Ult. If you cannot charge Ults fast enough to spam, her utility in Pure Fiction falls off a cliff. And applying Debuffs has clear limits because you almost universally need to take an action with another character in order to apply more debuffs. Barring more characters that are able to repeatedly apply debuffs without taking an action (similar to what Black Swan can do with Arcana via her Talent, and even that requires setup that can be clunky inside of Pure Fiction), it is hard to achieve the necessary Ult velocity to make Acheron work. Firefly needs E2 for the Action Advance, but even that has limits because it can only occur 1 time per turn, which means that there is a hard limit on the number of bonus actions she can receive. And if you don't have the ability to achieve a Break on each turn because Hoyo decided to throw several Elites out that take several hits to break, it becomes even more difficult. DOT teams with Black Swan + Kafka can function in the right circumstances, but can struggle with reapplying DOTs to waves of enemies.
Jade sits in a place where she is arguably the single best character in the game at this particular niche. Unlike Herta and Himeko that have conditions for triggering that can be rather easily missed which can severely hamper their effectiveness (Herta would be worse against waves of high HP Elites because it is harder to bring them down to 50% for her trigger. Himeko would be worse against non-Fire weak enemies or against Elites with a High Toughness, as it is harder to break them), Jade by comparison only cares about how many enemies are hit by her Debt Collector, and only really has upside if her Debt Collector gets bonus actions. In a hypothetic Herta + Jade team against high HP Elites, Herta can Skill to AOE, but miss the FUA due to not getting the enemies to 50% HP, then Jade can basic attack and is practically guaranteed to be at 8 stacks by that point, which will trigger her FUA, which can possibly trigger Herta's FUA, which will give Jade more stacks towards another FUA. Then you start getting into overstacking with Jade triggers, which increases the frequency of the FUAs. Then you start adding in Ults from Herta and Jade, both of which also increase stacks which trigger even more FUAs. Nothing that occurs can result in a circumstance where Jade doesn't advance towards another FUA. The only thing that slows her down is if there are no more enemies to hit, which generally doesn't happen in Pure Fiction. Herta can completely miss out on a FUA if the Blessing is the thing that brings an enemy below 50% HP. Himeko can completely miss out on a FUA if an enemy dies without being Weakness Broken. Acheron + Black Swan misses out on Ult velocity if an enemy dies before their DOT triggers at the start of their turn. Jade only has upside if her Debt Collector gets bonus actions, so that means that she can be paired with practically anyone that you expect to get lots of bonus actions. Yunli? Going to be amazing paired with Jade. Argenti? Is great paired with Jade due to his high Ult velocity. Any future unit that has Action Advance or Blast/AOE FUA? Will be great paired with Jade. And if you get Jade's E1, she suddenly works with basically anyone that can get bonus actions or even single target FUAs, and it increases her viability in modes outside of Pure Fiction by a substantial margin.
Now, in fairness, you are not always going to want an AOE sub-DPS, so Jade is not entirely universal. But any content where you believe that the Debt Collector will be take a lot of actions and AOE damage is beneficial, Jade only has upside. And that is true for any unit that is ever made in the future. The more that any future unit can conceivably be triggered to take bonus attacks via any mechanism, the better Jade will be when paired with that unit.
It's very funny, when pf first came out people said it was easily brute force able.
I think you’ve got it the wrong way round. Hoyo didn’t create an endgame mode (PF) and then release characters made for it - the game started with erudition characters, then Hoyo added PF afterwards otherwise people would have no reason to use erudition in endgame
yeah argenti and jingyuan was released first before pf (altho idk if jy is good for pf tho)
you can also e4 herta trough simU and day1 players have a free serval
i... don't think i ever said the contrary though? (unless you mean the arguments section at the end which isn't my opinion)
Why is everything always a theorem/dilemma/paradox or whatever to you?
I pulled for Jade only to get an E2 Bronya im not even using anymore. Honestly, screw all those people that said that Bronya is the only right choice for the 300 5 star selector, Himeko would have benefitted my account far better.
Jade only being good in one mode is a myth that is only true at E0
im very much erudition pilled so PF is hella easy since i just mix match jingyuan himeko argenti jade and herta regardless of type lmao. only worth sustain to use is aventurine who is my fav so ofc i got him and he's rly good in DoT and FUA especially, and then i use tingyun robin and rm for guaranteed 40k. I havent not gotten 80k but its rly clear that pf is just the character check mode
Also for any PF, the strongest character is bar none robin girl AA is alr strong in other modes but uts outright cheating in PF its like 3 extra free cycles even not counting her buffs
>Black Swan is a dps
>But Kafka is not included
What is this random shit list?
Jade is great, will probably auto 40k PF for a while, so that's easy 800 jades every patch. I cleared MoC with her at the same speed as Jingliu, after getting her E1 she cleared it 1 cycle faster.
Didn't try her in AS because I hate that mode.
I believed in Jade and tried to got Clara, goddamnit
Honestly Apocaliptic Shadow feels like the true endgame. The other modes are doable with less stratetegy
PF is the easiest because you get Herta e6 for free, so that is one side done. You only have to crack your head against the other side.
I'm one of the people that pulled for jade and I don't even think she is that strong but the "she's only good in one game mode" argument is so tired and unfair cause the same could be said for a lot of destruction and hunt characters outside of moc but no one cares
I think people should get out of the mindset that characters need to be good in all modes. It's just gonna lead to repeatative kit design.
PF is the easiest mode because one side is almost always guaranteed to be cleared thanks to Herta, a free e5 4*.
I have played the game fairly religiously from launch week to about 1.4 but then quit because I was kinda playing two MMOs on top and it was becoming too much. I came back last week just as Firefly banner was closing out, I lost the 50/50 and I ALMOST went all in on Jade because I do have a decently built Blade and would've loved to see them synergyze nicely, but meh, saving my pulls for supports that I am so severely lacking since Ruan Mei, Robin, Sparkle completely outclass Tingyun and Bronya...
xuyei the queen one and only four star among those five stars yay
Jade Opens up a lot if flexibility in team comps. if your not zero cycling.
I feel some of this evaluations at the end are weird, for example Clara vs Argenti the only time Argenti is better than Clara by a significant amount is PF if you see the avg cycles over time in MoC and the recent AS Clara both are basically clearing and getting the same amount of points (clara clear in avg .1 cycles faster in MoC and Argenti gain 100 points more than Clara in AS). So Idk why she won't be good in all 3 modes but Argenti is. Similar to Topaz here when she has been a very reliable MoC unit. Granted you can argue Clara with Topaz or Topaz with Ratio are why they are as reliable as dual dps but the same apply to Argenti in terms of having to pull for limited support to reach that reliable performance, same for Black Swan where a lot of her performance is basically tied to be in the same team as Kafka, with Acheron or both.
That's why I think is better to look into this in terms of teams more than the characters in a vacuum, I think when you do that then Jade is not as valuable (different to strong) than other units, if you don't have a PF team that reliable clears it Jade is really good but if you have 1 team that is reliable in clearing PF then Jade value drops in considering you can get other units that enable teams that can clear pf slower or with less point but are a lot more reliable than Jade in the other end game modes. But I agree there is very little units that can clear all modes reliable at least not without a good amount of investment (other limited units, really good relics, limited LCs) but I also think out of the 3 end game modes PF feels is the easiest to clear since the rotation between dot and fua bias allows 4* teams with f2p LCs and ok level of talents and relics to clear abusing those blessings. At the end of the day is very very account specific, like for example I have cleared all content since the launch using Clara and I have limited units that allow me to go over the weaknesses of her kit and the fact that I have farm so much for her in terms of relics she clears faster or as fast as Acheron for example because I don't have the same level of investment.
Clara's problem is that even though theres many enemies, its not a guarantee that they will attack.
even in the current pf with the swarm bugs you quickly see why this is a problem while argenti isnt bound by it.
and in cocolia as you get frozen if you dont output enough damage that isnt bound by a counter. and the argenti as has adds that straight up never attack you, so it becomes an st fight in practice for counter units.
funny that you said that btw because this video was spawned out of my f2p account that started on december last year clearing every moc after i got acheron. now its only a few days after release.
but for pf? i have herta and himeko but i still only clear it when theres only like 1 week or less left at the event. it feels *really* bad. meanwhile ive just been sleeping through moc.
character check content on a f2p account is by nature harder than moc which is an investment check. and i feel like these days moc is overvalued because of that.
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legit the only time I ever struggled was in dot pf, I had no dot units at all and no acheron, it was pure pain and I had to do it with jingyuan and himeko
It's less of a question of "is she good" and more one of "is she worth it" sadly the answer is no, it's basically a only pf char that while amazing there can be fucled up by rotating buffs like herta and hime, and while you could say she's better than the former you don't choose to get either, you get herta e6 guaranteed and you get or not himeko, and at the end of the day chars that are good im pf will probably fail in the other modes, while moc chars will probably perform very well on as, chars that can perform better in those 2 modes will end up in more jades than a pf only char, and for newer players especially they will need to grind hard for.moc and as teams
herta against a dot pf feels bad, himeko against no fire weak and the right checks is almost unusable.
pf is so stingy in blessings that a character being so overkill theyre fine without it is valuable. and they have never changed enemy count that theres virtually no checks for jade.
moc is a mode that changes a lot and they deviate from 1-5 enemies, pretty much any dps cant guarantee their worth there (unless youre acheron whos meh at pf without swan). so why fixate on it right?
wait my herta still isn’t e6 how is e6 herta guaranteed please ive been struggling 😭
@@siIhouettes gotta do all SU normal stages
@@waveman047 you can probably do 1 star on stage 4 without much effort if you invest enough regardless on buff, i feel playes will have a way harder time cleaning as and pf floors, so doing a jade investment on pf seems lower prio as it's the easier mode of the 3, just trying to maximize the ammounts of jades
Idk I always felt like PF is by far, and I mean really far the easiest of the three. You only need Herta + one or 2 limited harmony (which are the most valuable unit to pull anyway) and it's free 40k. After that you only need 20k on the other side which is pretty easy even with bad PF units. Of course it requires you to build Herta, but at the end of the day it is still a free unit.
Its not... I can clear Apocalyptic Shadows and MOC easy, but i cant even go past 40k in the current PF. For reference, i have Firefly, JL, Kafka Black Swan, Sparkle, Ruan Mei, Fuxuan, etc. Worst part is that the first chamber in PF 4 would have been fodder for my E3 Clara is it wasnt for the fact that the second wave is filled with enemies that DONT ACTIVATE HER COUNTER.
@@MrcreeperDXD777 Is your Herta build? like properly built? and did you pull limited harmonie?
@@Aythos Herta has about 50/120 CR with Quantum Set. It's 70/80, but fully ascended. Weapon too. I have Ruan Mei and Sparkle with Bronya LC.
@@MrcreeperDXD777 If you work on improving your Herta gear you should be able to clear it. Unfortunatly the best harmonie for PF is the one you don't have, Robin, but Sparkle RM also do the job.
But you still have a large margin of improvement on your relics, to give you an idea, mine with really good relics has 75/190 with Himeko's LC (2p2p2p ice, musketeer, salsato) (when I play her, otherwise other characters uses the relics). Maybe try playing around using other characters' relics, in PF I find it really efficient to all in for 40k one side and 20k the other.
This is why Seele and Acheron are the Top 2 DPS. Queens of all trades
I personally hate it so much when the whole fandom just dooms a character and says "well we don't like her" even before said character's release, guys since when it's become so serious? not everyone has all the units in the game so why not discuss a whole new unit that might become some players' favorite character? "easy skip" get a life is my reply to all those people screaming how bad a char is as if their life depends on 3000% minmaxing. I for now skip everyone after getting robin just so I can save a lot for sunday, badly want him on my account no matter if his damage or buff is just like that loufu fish ultimate - just pure NOTHING. and this is how I play the game, not any superior new damage sealing can advertise a character to me if I just don't like them for who they are, tho in my case I love many chars in hoyo popular big 3 and wuwa, I am f2p tho so it's challenging for me, having to choose how to spend very limited resource, still it's very cool of a soft challenge. for now Sunday is the first character for who I started saving this early before his banner (which I have no idea when can even occur, no spoilers everyone pls) since Wriothesley from genshin for who I waited just two months, back then I thought two months were insane time for saving... naive ijbol. but in comparison to me some players completely ignore lore and personalities of characters just for numbers... how do they do that? is this "competition" of getting all the stars in a phase of a mode that interesting? I myself if can't clear something just look at stats to see if I can improve anything and leave if I can't change it. that's it, I can accept defeat and not bother with trying to beat everything at all cost. it's fascinating how one game can be understood this differently by various people with different tastes and backgrounds thats for sure but I hope all those silly people who use to sh-- on characters for their "weaknesses" 24/7 will still get a life worthy of living outside of those goddamn games idk man ugh
there are players who skip story and only there for the gameplay therefore they want all the strong units to clear all the modes, there are players like you who heavily cares about lore and story and it doesn't matter how strong a unit is if they hate that character in the story, then there are players Iike me who is a mix of both: we always follow the story and lore and once that's done we dedicate the majority of the time minmaxing for end game while waiting for the new patch.
3? You mean 4. The Pure Fiction alternates between follow up attacks and DOTs. Jade kit only fits to 1/4 of end game
MoC 11-12 isn’t worth the 60 jades theirs even a video about it
I genuinely disagree with the fact that PF is the good endgame. Anyone who pulled for Argenti or Jade and have Herta maxed just know that this whole PF is a clown fiesta. Little to zero speed tuning needed. And getting 60k really isnt hard. I think they should up it to 70k if you guys want it to be at least challenging.
The problem is PF, it's a character-check. Erudition is sadly, designed specifically for PF. They need to start designing erudition characters around other game modes, and stop putting their fixes and QoL in the erudition character eidolons because most other character types don't need their eidolons to function properly in content outside of PF.
They've already done that with Argenti, haven't they? He does pretty well in MoC, in fact I dare say he does much better than Jade in MoCs that aren't even suited for him. Mainly because his teams are easy to build. Plus Tingyun and HuoHuo synergise with him very well.
Jade is good but she is a mommy, so not my taste. Waiting for an aoe erudition that looks like Sushang.
Anyway herta/himeko/ Clara have been getting me 80k in PF ( all except once with 70k+)
So I am still surviving in PF without pulling for an erudition unit so far.