Cult German Music and a Japanese Sequencer
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2024
- A look at how the Korg MS-20 and SQ-10 sequencer were an intergral part of the sound of a group of German musicians in the late 70s and early 80s.
0:00 Intro
1:09 Der Mussolini - DAF
5:02 Los Niños Del Parque - Liaisons Dangereuses
8:10 Minimal Tape 3/7.2 - Pyrolator
10:48 Sample Pack
11:38 Outro Jam / Patrons
Huge thanks to Brad Holland and my patrons and patreon.
The sample pack is available here: / alexballmusic
Synth settings (these are my estimations, rather than certain):
Der Mussolini
VCO 1: Pulse wave with PW set to around 10 o'clock
VCO 2: Off
HPF: Not used
LPF: Cutoff at 0 and peak at 2 / EG2 modulation set to 10
EG 2: Hold 0 / Attack 0 / Decay 3 / Sustain 0 / Release 3
Then guitar amping / stereo reverb
Los Niños Del Parque
VCO 1: Pulse wave with PW set to around 1 o'clock
VCO 2: Off
HPF: Not used
LPF: Cutoff at 0 and peak at 2 / EG2 modulation set to 7.5 / T.EXT mod set to 8.5
EG 2: Hold 0 / Attack 0 / Decay 1 / Sustain 4 / RElease 3.5
Channel C Sequencer lane to T.EXT and VCA Initial Gain
Then guitar amping / stereo reverb
Minimal Tape 3/7.2
VCO 1: Pulse wave with PW set to around 10 o'clock
VCO 2: Square wave up an octave
VCO 1 level 4 and VCO 2 level 3 (to allow envelope and filter clicks to be heard)
HPF: Not used
LPF: Cutoff at 0 and peak at 4 / EG modulation set to 8.5 / T.EXT mod set to 7.5
EG 2: Hold 0 / Attack 0 / Decay 2 / Sustain 0.5 / Release 2
Channel C Sequencer lane to T.EXT
Then a tape echo with minimal feedback at around 30 - 40ms with dry and echo panned left and right respectively - Hudba
As ever, there can be conflicting information out there. Having read that D.A.F used the SQ-10 and MS-20 I found an interview of them discussing how to make "a Korg" sound like D.A.F by using guitar amps and mics like Conny Plank did. This was a strong suggestion that they used their MS-20.
I've now had people who claim to have spoken to the band who say it was actually an ARP Odyssey and 1601 sequencer. I'm not going to staunchly defend this, because it's totally possible that I'm completely wrong, so I'll pin this comment until we get to the bottom of it.
Either way, the principle is the same on the MS-20 / SQ-10 as it is the ARP pair.
Next someone will tell me the other two tracks were recorded using a Minimoog and a Stylophone. 😉
{Update} Evidence is pointing to ARP Odyssey and sequencer, particularly German language interviews that I don't understand. Thanks for those who helped with info. We all learn something, so that's appreciated.
I believe the other two tracks were recorded using a Minimoog and a Stylophone 😂
It's time for an Alex Ball / Anthony Marinelli collab!
Christian Haas (former DAF, liasons dangereuses, Crislo) was the one with the MS20 IIRC. Later DAF used the Arp sequencer (begin with all faders down, then slide up every second until it sounds right - microtuning included). I still hope for a cheaper remake of the Arp sequencer with its sequencer logic. Anyway - such a great video. Thank you Alex! 🤩🤩🤩
I'm pretty confident I read an interview where Robert Görl said the SQ-10 was his favourite seq and used a Prophet 5 - but I've always thought the MS-20 was the one they used. So yes might be some conflicting info.
Nevertheless I'm happy you saw my comment in previous video about Liaision Dangereuses. Somewhat hope I helped inspire you to this topic : )
Shame if it wasn't the MS20 but you still put a massive smile on my face when you fired up the Der Mussolini sequence through the processing and then the drums kicked in. Sounded brilliant!
What an excellent music selection and deep dive! A true gift of a video.Side anecdote: My wife bought a baby crib on classifieds. When I showed up at the flat in Berlin to pick it up I did a double take -I knew that face of the guy standing in the doorway from somewhere! When I got invited in I spotted an MS20 in the corner (I think it was the Korg controller version) it clicked: we got Pyrolator's baby crib. Though our kid refused to stay in it for longer than five minutes, so we sold it quickly.
You made it from meeting a legend to became a legend.
Someone out there is like, "I bought Hainbach's haunted crib!"
A whole new meaning to MTV Cribs.
Only in Berlin…
@@AlexBallMusic This is all what the internet was built for.
Thanks for the video. I learned a lot from Chrislo. He came into the studio and said that he wanted to play his synthesizers through guitar and bass amps, " musst Du bodymässig abchecken" (you have to check the sound with your body), even the bass drums from the MS20 were played through amps, and loud.
His equipment when he lived with Beate was 4 MS20s, 1 MS50 and 2 SQ10s.
By the way, what you did well with my track from "Inland" with a short echo was nothing more than a transfer from one side of the 1/4 inch tape to the other and the echo was the distance between the erase head and the recording head, at that time I didn't have an echo device, everything was done with a tape machine.
Kurt! Thanks for stopping by and for the information, that's fantastic.
Thanks also for the music!
@pyrolator Thanks for Ausland and "Ein Weihnachtsmann kommt in die Disco" from the Denk Daran! LP compilation.
That Der mussolni synth bass riff has to be one of the best riffs ever, the fact that it doesnt need anything else other than drums and vocals says it all really.
"I am in the parque" - please show yourself the door, Alex Ball 😀 (awesome video, as usual)
😉
@@AlexBallMusicThe Alex Ball Parque
That DAF sequence is spot on, well done 👍
Cheers!
Amazing how much the MS-20 was used by artists from the Neue Deutsche Welle movement. Honourable mentions to kindred spirits Front 242 and KaS Product from Belgium and France respectively, who were also big users of the MS-20.
Never come back! Classic MS-20 tune with Moog Prodigy on the other part.
KaS Product were fantastic. Another heavy MS-20 user was Matthias Schuster (Bal Paré, Geisterfahrer, Im Namen Des Volkes, Jeanette Und Das Land Z, etc.).
Alex making some of the best synthesiser music around again. Thank you for your work.
Cheers!
To avoid repeating myself again and again on this channel, this time I'll just echo this opinion here.
@@Waldemar_la_Tendresse 😀👍🎹🎹🎹🎹
Nice to hear Liaisons Dangereuses being more appreciated; I think the output of Beate Bartel and Chrislo Haas has been very much underappreciated.
Definitely! Shame Chrislo passed 20 years back. I wonder if Beate is still making music.
This was awesome! Please do more classic EBM breakdowns. Maybe try diving into Front 242s Geography album with your old Roland gear.
I always assumed that the DAF and LLD sound came from tape distortion, thanks for explaining it’s a lot more complex than that. What a genius Conny Plank was!
I’ve heard of people layering in different amps (or amp emulations) and different room sounds (or reverb plugins) more recently, but to be doing it back then was very cool.
Not least because layering analogue gear on tape to bounce down to one track was a sync nightmare! So that took dedication as well as inspiration. Definitely worth it though.
Thank you for pointing out the detuning issue of the sequencer. I just listened to Der Mussolini and now I finally understand why the tuning is _so_ wobbly on that track! 🤓
Also, it’s quite amazing that they basically made the whole album (and also Gold und Liebe) with basically this one synth and a drum kit. Fun fact: if I remember correctly, Robert Görl is a classically trained jazz drummer. 😅
Don't forget Für immer, my favorite album from their Virgin trilogy.
Wow! Finally the transpose secret is revealed. Honestly, I couldn't have thought of that.myself. I have known the first two songs since they were released but I didn't know they were made with Korg instruments I have owned since 1988. I will tellyou my secret as a token of my gratitude. The SQ-10 with its three lanes makes a fine analogue memory bank. I used it on my debut gig in 1990 to switch patches, controlling filters and gain.
Playing live with an SQ-10! Levels of bravery that I don't have.
Absolutely awesome for modulation, yeah. Great sequencer.
@@AlexBallMusic I think there would be a problem with attempting to transpose the sequence in that way, which is that the MS20 CV is exponential, not volts per octave. To transpose the sequence up an octave, you would have to multiply all the voltages by two, rather than just add a one volt offset. (Context: I used to use Korg's MS-02 linear / exponential converter to interface the CV from a TB-303 to my MS-20.) This might add weight to the suggestion in the pinned comment, that it was actually ARP kit: if ARP were using the V/Oct standard at that time, it would make things a lot easier.
@@David_K_Booth Yep, had to crank in some MS-02 voltage with the summing mixer and press a different key than I was expecting and managed to get it to work, but it would be out if I tried any other keys. No doubt the exponential Hz/V thing.
Does suggest the more simple answer is just an Odyssey / 1601 that can do that easily, as you say.
Ah well, you can't win 'em all.
@@AlexBallMusic I'm sure that if they were using the Korg system, Conny Planck would be the guy who could make it work.
Later edit: it's a rabbit hole. Listening to a couple of performances on CZcams, I found one where the sequence stays roughly in tune as they transpose it, and another one where it goes terribly wrong. My guess would be that in Cony Planck's studio they had ARP kit, or something similar, but they used Korg kit when they played live, and either they didn't understand or they didn't care how it went out of key.
At a tangent - you mentioned that sequencers then were continuous controllers, and there was no quantisation, so you had to tune very carefully by ear. I'm sure I've read how Tangerine Dream, round about then, got the sequencers on their Moog series 3 kit quantised: they commissioned someone to replace each potentiometer with a chain of very accurately matched resistors and a 12 way rotary switch.
I will ask Rob Papen of Peru and Nova how he transposed his SQ-10 controlling his MS synths. Maybe the band had the interface but they had no V/Oct keyboards at the time.
My (dad's. though he had more and I had this in my room) first synth set as I was 8 in 1978....The SQ1- VC10 MS10 and MS20...Later the MS 50 came too (in 1981)....Loved experimenting with it...Nowadays I have the same set, apart from the MS50...Still looking out for an "affordable" one. Been worling virtually my whole life with this series....Dad also had a PS3200 in those days....(along with LOTS of other synths....)
Wow! Quite the collection. What happened to the PS-3200?
I had an MS-20 once and couldn't make it sing like I wanted to. Watching you make magic out of it is just pure joy for me !
Cheers Yotam! One of my favourite synths.
Im glad someone talked about Pyrolator (Ausland is an amazing album) very underrated . Der Plan (the album Geri Reig and Normalette Surprise) , another german new wave band that used the MS 20 almost exclusively !
Pyrolator was in Der Plan, so that makes sense.
My band had the pleasure of sharing a bill with Robert Gorl and DAF at a festival in Portugal last summer. I was a passive fan at the time, I knew a few tunes and liked them. Now I’m obsessed with them. I wish I could go and meet him again to tell him what a genius he is.
Such a dope korg set up...iconic sound! Vst's do not hit like this! Thanks For blessing us with this knowledge and more internet archiving of dope vintage gear:)
This is fantastic! Please do more D.A.F./Conny Plank recreations. :)
Pronouncing the year in English for once actually caught me off guard!
I thought it would be funnier in a German-centric video to not do it.
The things that make these old sequencers hooked up with old synths tedious to work with is also what makes them special. The imperfect nature of it, things drifting out of time and tune, is really what makes them have an interesting flavour. Well demonstrated, as always!
Now thats the music from my youth❤.... The best way to spend 13 minutes I can think of. Thanks!
Yesterday I literally heard Der Mussolini for the first time in my life! And I recognised it instantly ❤ You couldn’t have been reading my mind, because these videos take a while to produce, so I probably read yours 😊
Small world! Yeah, what a tune.
Great video, very interesting. The late great Conny Plank, what a top producer. I loved his production of the early Ultravox albums.
Yeah, left us too soon.
@@AlexBallMusicman, that would be awesome if you could tease out how they got Systems of Romance together would be killer. Or that one BIG sound on Neu!'s "Hero".
it’s like this video was made for me. thanks for the history lesson. especially interesting how the 24-step sequencer design influenced that iconic meter for los niños del parque. this is the kind of thing i obsess over 🦋
Any video that mentions and even covers Pyrolator is a must-see.
Thank you, Alex, for brightening up a grey Friday.
And now I have to listen to "Inland" again ... :)
Very possibly my all time personal favorite (so far) of your videos. I was living in W.-Germany in 1982 just after these songs came out, and they still are close to my heart. Thank you, Alex.
Absolutely gorgeous! Thanks for this insightful recreation ❤
great stuff sir ,love jam on the end!
You make some of the best videos! Always a good day when I see you post a new video!
absolutely fantastic video, thanks for recreating these :)
Great video. That dry flam snare is so cool, and nice room reverbs on the drums in general
what a great introduction and a nice rabbit hole of new music to fall into.
Another terrific video 👌🏻🏆
Thank you I’ve been looking for a cut and dry tutorial for DAF sounds🤝
This was a real treat, thank you so much for all the thorough walkthroughs you do!
Amazing as usual!
loved the outro jam. Sometimes I'll being watching something with an annoying stereo image so I'll push my mono button on my interface but then I'll forget it's on, sometimes for much too long, and I'll miss out on ear candy and wonder generally why everything sounds odd. I'm glad I didn't make that mistake for this video especially.
Excellent stuff! Love seeing deep dive into early EBM! I’d absolutely adore a look into 2nd wave industrial/EBM such as Skinny Puppy and Front 242!
Another awesome video! Entertaining and educational, what's more to say! 😎
Sir, your content is just ACE. It’s a rare combo… ability, coupled with history, all wrapped in TASTE!!! Well done. THANK YOU!!!
thank you for the most entertaining synth-videos around and excellent music choice. But i really enjoyed the jam-piece you played at then end , the most!
Thank you!
I'm always so excited when a new Alex Ball video drops. I've learned a lot from you, Alex!
Thanks Jake!
good to see ya back mate!
Amazing! Banging tracks right there!
As always, I dig the video, man!
Another totally awesome, informative, educational video. Have loved at least 2 of these artist for years (DAF and Liaisons). Didn't know about the other chap but will check him out! Thanks loads, Alex
Hey Andy. Yeah, worth checking out Pyrolator. All related bands.
This is so cool! I missed out a bit on this scene so wasn't all that familiar with the artists, but the whole thing was mesmerising. And talking of mesmerising... your comments about the sound of that tape echo with no feedback on it reminded me of something I did in my teens with my ZX Spectrum. I used a BASIC program with a load of BEEP commands to play Bach's Toccata in D Minor (Sky version). When I took it round to a friend's house, he loaded it on his Speccy as well, and we connected them up to L and R on a ghetto blaster... and hit RETURN to start the programs, but a split second apart. The resulting recording was actually quite similar to this tape echo effect, and I loved it. Sadly, I think I lost it. I'd love to hear it again.
Very nice video as always, greets from Düsseldorf.
I personally enjoy recreating sounds from different 'bands'/musicians. It's really difficult IMHO, so love hearing how you deconstructed these bands (of which I need to get some of their music!).
Came for the synths, knowledgeable information and good vibes. Subscribed hoping to see that tasty Lute busted out for jam.
Well done, thanks for the video❤
Great video about three of my all time reference tunes. Thanks!
This clip comes at exactly the right time and fits me like a glove as I am loosely working the last weeks on los ninos del parque on different vst instruments and systems (Korg iMS-20; Arturias MS-20 & Acid (TB-303). Recently, I have taken a deep dive into the early days me starting to go to the clubs and as of my awakening as a music programmer. CZcams is such a rich pool of knowledge and learning. Now your contribution, Alex. A like within 5 seconds.
Please share that LD stuff once you are ready. That album is so complicated i did not get any results to get close. Daf is less difficult
It's bloody happened again!
Your channel is the best possible form of procrastination I've found so far haha
This was fascinating by the way
Thank you!
Absolutely love this and everything Minimal Wave-esque!
Like many others, I'm hoping to see more breakdowns of tracks from similar artists (Autumn/Linear Movement, KaS Product, Das Ding, Tommi Stumpff/Silvia, Fad Gadget, etc.) in the future.
THANK YOU for always doing what you do
Love all those artists. A synth/production channel focused solely on Minimal-Synth/Coldwave artists would be amazing.
killer sounds in that demo for the sample pack 👍
Thank you for this explanation of these classic tracks.
I had one about 20 years ago and struggled to keep the sequences in tune as you described. It’s definitely not a sequence of everything need to be on point. But now I appreciate its charm 100%. Thanks for the video Alex. A joy as always.
Regardless of the synth/sequencer combination, I was really excited about how you explained 'tuning' sequencers and how that led to the sound of Der Mussolini. I had always wondered about the 'wonky' sequencer part, but always assumed it had something to do with anomalies in tape speed between recording, mixing, and mastering. Now I know. And, kudos to actually reproducing the wonkiness to a T. It was probably hard enough to get close, much less as close as you got. Keep up the amazing work, Alex. Love the videos!
And guten Schnuten to you. Fantastischer content. Wie immer. Also golden memories. What an era. 43 years on tracks like DAFs DER MUSSOLINI and KRAFTWERK’s NUMMERN still completely blow my Verstand. Greetings from Germany!
Timeless music.
I can’t get over the amazing synth collection.
Biggest regret of my life, selling my MS 10, what was I thinking?
Great content.
That it sounds thin compared to other synth, because it does (I had three)
Yay! I wondered when someone would bring up DAF and the MS/SQ combo. They were also fond of the Odyssey for basslines too.
Finally something good to watch that's not NAMM
Very interesting - thank you very much!!
your videos are the best :)
Great video as usual, Alex!
I'm pretty sensitive to tuning issues, and while I understand the charm in that sequencer, man...that thing would drive me nuts!
I had the exact same experience when I spent a day trying out modular in the local synth shop. I thought I’d be trying out cool patches, but I spent half my time trying to get the sequencer to behave!
That said I was exposed to enough alternate tuning systems young enough that I don’t mind if a note intentionally(-ish) doesn’t fit-in to 12TET, but the frustration came from that disconnect between how I imagined it and how it was coming out. Sounding right on one loop but then sounding different by the time I got the patch right. Etc
Perhaps I just need to embrace the tuning chaos next time. Tell myself it’s microtonal, rather than a slipping just-intonation.
Since they are old pots and not the best, i think twisting them all before use might give a more stable result. My tempo knob of one of my sq10,s is so drifty it s impossible for a drummer to keep up 😅 it loves to speed up and slow down by some bpm all the time. So i tweak it before i use it to get it cleaner and fresher. Kinda works
well done! 🎹 thanks for the info!
What an absolute treat of a video. I think the fact the original synth for Der Mussolini likely wasn't an MS-20 just makes the whole thing more interesting. It's a testament to Conny Plank's creativity as an engineer that such a distinctive sound was present regardless of the gear used.
Talking about connections, the other day I realized YMO used a lot of american equipment on their live shows: ARP Odyssey, Moog Modular and Polymoog, Oberheim Eight-voice and Prophet 5. Thought it would be interesting to share. Great video as always!
I love your explanation of tuning the SQ-10 ❤ it’s a Zen practice for sure, somewhat like waiting 1 minute for an Emulator II sample to load from a floppy. But I also know that the point of a song isn’t to get to the end of the song, but to enjoy it as it’s played 😊
I’m from a rock background and my first synth jams were through fuzz pedals into amps.
Maybe I could try that again! Great video, I kept stopping to take notes!
This. Is. Fantastic! I'm a huge fan of the MS-20 sound but tbph I'd never heard of these tracks, and maybe only incidentally heard of the artists -- but I'm definitely interested in doing a deeper dive on all of them now!
The MS synths appear in surprising places!
Love the outro song.
Liaisons Dangereuses, faster and shorter sustain/ release maybe but very nice sounding still, outro jam is funky as hell also Danky Shauwn :)
Thanks for the recommendations. I never heard of any of these.
Excellent demonstration. Like! and greetings from Hamburg mein Freund ;)
Love this, thanks.
Niños Del Parque - Liaisons Dangereuses not heard of for decades, so cool!
Loved this!!
Amazing video 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻
Thanks for the cool video, would love a deep dive into the drums on Los Niños. I’ve got close multitracking an MS-10 but can never quite get it sounding right, doubt I ever will but that’s half the fun!
I love this sequencer and i won‘t give it away anymore!🙂
Brilliant again. Hoorah!
Just listened to Robert Goerl on Martyn Ware’s podcast and he’s still got his original MS20 and sequencer. I hope he see this video!
Superb! Always wondered about the ‘detunings’ on Der Mussolini and if it was an artistic decision or a byproduct of unstable tech-Question answered! Thankyou.
Top content!
You are a master craftsman.
Really interesting. I'm eternally grateful that my first sequencer in the 80s was quantised only, although for the modulation unquantised is possibly easier.
Fantastic!
Liked and subbed. Good shit.
Great stuff as always guv. (Best read in a slightly ‘London’ accent)
Reminded me of something, but not sure what. I THINK it’s the Xpropaganda album, The Heart is Strange, which is heavily Steve Lipson. Perhaps just that approach bleeding into the basslines, particularly Chasing Utopia.
Hey Dave! I'll have to look that up.
I enjoyed this video
this videos is amazing, remebers me why i bought my ms 20
Sounds amazing. You definitely know your shit. [thumbs up!]
Everyone needs to see the tv "performance" of Der Rauber und Der Prince! Funniest music video ever ...
Eins, zwei, drei, fier! Liaisons Dangereuses drifted as a band. I never heard Los Niños del Parque played or sang the same way in any two different recordings.
As always, Alex is on the ball when making videos. I had a MS-20 mini that I didn't bother to learn so I sold it. Still scared of the modular and semi-modular stuff. But it is always nice to see someone who knows what they are doing, doing stuff like this.
As for the song selection, I had heard DAF - Der Mussolini, I had heard about Liaisons Dangereuses though Pyrolator was a complete unknown to me, though a name like that would serve him incredibly well if he took part in the Demo scene in the latter part of the 80s and early 90s.
Yeah, Pyrolator is worth looking into. I forgot to mention in the video that he was in the original line-up of DAF and then Chrislo Haas replaced him, so it's all very connected.
@@AlexBallMusic the more you know :)
I can here the tonal uniqueness of your sequence and my M500 micro preset. Its unmistakable.
The knobs on their sequencer are the same too.
Something reminded me of you the other day, and i thought to myself, its about bloody time he put out a video😂and here you are.
Did you do those real sounding drums? how did you get them so thick? They sound like they are doubled.
Smashing video as per Mr B.