This is way better than the books in my opinion. Mary falling in love with another woman is more powerful as it's more Taboo and is downright frowned upon even to this day. If Mary just fell for a man people can just say, "It looks like God planned you to be a mother" and her leaving the convent isn't that bad or a big deal. But if Mary fell for another women, something most religious people don't like because their God doesn't want to, then that means Mary's choice of leaving the convent is more powerful and beautiful. A human who just wants to love and live. This is one of those instances that the adaptation is more powerful than the book.
I know a ton of people already are and will be really upset about the change of her love interest into being another woman, but it really adds onto the theme and point this entire sequence is trying to convey.
That's just the times we live in.. back in the '60s and 70's on soap operas they had to show men and women in separate beds and the FCC would have taken a TV station's license if they showed anything lewd.. nowadays we have men french kissing in commercials. nothing is taboo anymore...
Just another excuse to be woke. Had a lesbian relationship in the book been turned into a heterosexual relationship the uproar would have been (deservingly) huge. Woke ideology is the exact point of this book. Authorities controlling a narrative to suppress and demonising anyone who feels differently.
I read the books some years ago, and was so involved in the TV show narrative this season that I didn't remeber this moment until Mary starts talking. It was so well done, amazing acting by Simone Kirby
@@freedomishealthy1086 I mean, like, it did happen, though... they changed the sex of Mary's love interest, but otherwise everything is the exact same.
@@AnnaBellaChannel absolutely, however you’re ignoring the context and parallels to the biblical symbolism. It’s for young adults, so I get why they weren’t more explicit 💁🏻♂️
Pullman had a lot to do with this show. I suspect he was totally cool with this change to Mary's character. It's very subtle, but it could help further strengthen her disenfranchisement with the church. Overall the essence of the story is intact, it reveals to Will and Lyra that they love each other. And it's beautifully played here.
@@elizabethdexter-wilson4239 The books were better in general but I always found The Amber Spyglass the weakest. It felt like a lecture in athiesm. Pure propaganda. Ironic from Pullman.
@@steveandjeanniefrith236 The third act is lack luster after the 'war' is over. We have all this build up, then one battle in a massive war against the authorities regent, then blue coconut roller skating elephants hugging trees & cosy chats about eating yummy marzipan fruits.
I love that they took the time to wrap everything up. Wish every story had a wrap up episode where it's chill and things are good (except for the ending)
O sacred, wise, and wisdom-giving Plant, Mother of science! now I feel thy power Within me clear; not only to discern Things in their causes, but to trace the ways Of highest agents, deemed however wise. Queen of this universe! do not believe Those rigid threats of death: ye shall not die: How should you? by the fruit? it gives you life To knowledge; by the threatener? look on me, Me, who have touched and tasted; yet both live, And life more perfect have attained than Fate Meant me, by venturing higher than my lot. Shall that be shut to Man, which to the Beast Is open? or will God incense his ire For such a petty trespass? and not praise Rather your dauntless virtue, whom the pain Of death denounced, whatever thing death be, Deterred not from achieving what might lead To happier life, knowledge of good and evil; Of good, how just? of evil, if what is evil Be real, why not known, since easier shunned? God therefore cannot hurt ye, and be just; Not just, not God; not feared then, nor obeyed: Your fear itself of death removes the fear. Why then was this forbid? Why, but to awe; Why, but to keep ye low and ignorant, His worshippers? He knows that in the day Ye eat thereof, your eyes that seem so clear, Yet are but dim, shall perfectly be then Opened and cleared, and ye shall be as Gods, Knowing both good and evil, as they know.
It was a mistake that Lyra and Will listened to the Angels and stayed separated. Their parents just fought and died to overcome authority and people making decisions for you and the first thing they do is listen to a self proclaimed new authority figure.
What doesn't it matter if she is lesbian or not? Whats important is the charakter of People and Mary Malone is a nice person. And that she loved another woman makes it even more genuisly with her abandon church
This book was where the series lost me. CS Lewis was never as preachy as Philip Pullman. And Lewis wrote open Christian allegory! Good for him. In a time where you couldn't be ridiculed or persecuted for believing in something.
Amber spyglass was never preachy, it was an examination of ideologies and religion. It looked at things from a different perspective, providing a thought-provoking and extremely well-written thematic study. It was all done through the lense of a YA book as well, as well as through the perspective of the different characters. It wasnt made to ridicule people for their beliefs, it was made to explore the dangers of faith in an entirely fictional way. Yes, it explored real biblical ideas. But it did so in the form of a philosophical argument. He crafted something truly exquisite, something that I would take over a generic and highly cliche book of shallow themes. If you disagree with the books message, thats fine. Its supposed to spark debate.
@@steveandjeanniefrith236 The fact that Susan never got to Narnia because she was interested in lipstick and parties and therefore an Unworthy Person for heaven is, in my opinion, EXTREMELY preachy.
TV producers get money for making characters gay, it's like product placement but for social agendas. In the Amber Spyglass book, Mary's crush here is a man called Tim. Bit weird and out of place. I suppose if you hadn't read the book you wouldn't notice.
@@freedomishealthy1086 I know is annoying for you, but have you stopped a bit to think what it feels to hide all the time who you are? See how your friends can experience love freely and you can't? The need to wait until you are an adult to tell your family who your partner is because otherwise you could not support yourself if your family chooses to reject you? That's why is more deep, she was not only abandoning her faith, she was also abandoning society's beliefs. This is not social agenda, new target, yeah. But you can't deny we have always been there, it's not something new.
@@rod750. Funnily enough I had many gay friends 20 years ago at University, and one of the lesbians decided she'd turn straight to be with me. So yes, I totally understand, and I also think that gaywashing everything is self-defeating.
You know what is really out of place? That before 2000 approximately, 99% of the tv and movie characters were straight. Like, c'mon, that's not real. Mary's story only last less than 3 minutes and the importance of it is how she rediscovered love.
In the book, she was in love with a guy, she had relationships with several men. And then they dragged in this fucking tolerant nonsense that spoils the whole picture. Is it really worth ruining the canon for her sake? Or is it for the money?! This tolerance for good will bring nothing.
I saw another comment point this out but if it had been a guy, people would believe that Mary just had a new purpose of a wife and/or mother. With her love interest now being a woman, it quite majorly highlights why she left the convent and really emphasized the entire point of the story.
@@kadominyt169 Seriously?! Those. it is because of the woman that you need to leave the monastery, and not because of the guy? What nonsense. Moreover, she left the monastery, due to the fact that she began to be interested in science. Rather so. Mary was part of a monastic order, which was not isolated from society. She did not have to wear monastic vestments, it was enough to wear a crucifix on her chest. She was allowed to engage in scientific activities. Then Mary stopped believing in God, as well as in good and evil. She lacked a sense of connection with the entire universe. Previously, she felt that she was connected with God, and through him with the whole universe. It seemed to her that without God, life has no meaning, no purpose. At one conference, she ate a piece of marzipan that brought back memories of being in love and made her question her faith. She began walking along the beach with Montal Alfredo, and she made up her mind to throw her crucifix into the sea. She also admitted that she kissed Montale at some point. And so she decided to die as a nun. Mary then lived for several years with another man who was a climber. Then they decided to disperse. It may not have been an accurate answer in the book as to why she left the convent. And yet, they really decided to make Mary fall in love with a woman instead of a guy on the show. HBO needs to be off the agenda, at least where it shouldn't be.
@@user-go5ku7ju9c I’m not really sure why you think it’s nonsense but your acting like one of those miserable homophibics that can’t enjoy a show for the life of them. The gender of Mary’s love interest was one of the only major things they changed in the show, and even then the entire core of the show was the same as the book. Mary fell in love and stopped answering to religion, end of story.
This is way better than the books in my opinion. Mary falling in love with another woman is more powerful as it's more Taboo and is downright frowned upon even to this day.
If Mary just fell for a man people can just say, "It looks like God planned you to be a mother" and her leaving the convent isn't that bad or a big deal.
But if Mary fell for another women, something most religious people don't like because their God doesn't want to, then that means Mary's choice of leaving the convent is more powerful and beautiful. A human who just wants to love and live.
This is one of those instances that the adaptation is more powerful than the book.
I know a ton of people already are and will be really upset about the change of her love interest into being another woman, but it really adds onto the theme and point this entire sequence is trying to convey.
That's just the times we live in.. back in the '60s and 70's on soap operas they had to show men and women in separate beds and the FCC would have taken a TV station's license if they showed anything lewd.. nowadays we have men french kissing in commercials. nothing is taboo anymore...
Just another excuse to be woke. Had a lesbian relationship in the book been turned into a heterosexual relationship the uproar would have been (deservingly) huge.
Woke ideology is the exact point of this book. Authorities controlling a narrative to suppress and demonising anyone who feels differently.
That shot of Mary's hand letting her cross sliding into the fountain water is beautiful
I read the books some years ago, and was so involved in the TV show narrative this season that I didn't remeber this moment until Mary starts talking. It was so well done, amazing acting by Simone Kirby
that's 'cos it didn't happen. In the books it was a dude.
@@freedomishealthy1086 I mean, like, it did happen, though... they changed the sex of Mary's love interest, but otherwise everything is the exact same.
@@brooksboy78 so why change it.
They managed to adapt Mary’s story so well but never adapted the part where will and Lyra take after Mary and offer each other the fruit!!
They still ate fruit.
@@stephenking5852 Lyra never put it in wills mouth like in the books
@@edc6172 not sure how it matters since they’re all just metaphors for sex 💁🏻♂️
@demonhogo I don't think so. Simple tender gestures intimate kindness means far more in a relationship than just sex.
@@AnnaBellaChannel absolutely, however you’re ignoring the context and parallels to the biblical symbolism. It’s for young adults, so I get why they weren’t more explicit 💁🏻♂️
Pullman had a lot to do with this show. I suspect he was totally cool with this change to Mary's character. It's very subtle, but it could help further strengthen her disenfranchisement with the church. Overall the essence of the story is intact, it reveals to Will and Lyra that they love each other. And it's beautifully played here.
I love this story Mary is telling.
It's even BETTER in the book.
@@elizabethdexter-wilson4239 The books were better in general but I always found The Amber Spyglass the weakest. It felt like a lecture in athiesm. Pure propaganda. Ironic from Pullman.
@@steveandjeanniefrith236 The third act is lack luster after the 'war' is over. We have all this build up, then one battle in a massive war against the authorities regent, then blue coconut roller skating elephants hugging trees & cosy chats about eating yummy marzipan fruits.
@@elizabethdexter-wilson4239 no
Simon Kirby brought the same feeling I felt while reading the book. Such a delicate and strong moment ❤
Mary sparkled the love of lyra for will in the same way the serpent sparkled the curiosity of Eve in the Bible. Great writing
Mary was my favorite character from start to finish. Her whole journey was amazing to watch!
Mary is Philip pullman’s favourite character too.😊
I love this interpretation of her ik it isn't the same as the book but I think it suits this adaptation of her character
thank you for this record.
I have to say this is probably the most beautifully done scene in the whole series in my opinion it’s such an amazing monologue.
I love that they took the time to wrap everything up. Wish every story had a wrap up episode where it's chill and things are good (except for the ending)
Beautifully executed, I love the modern tweak of Mary Malone being gay ❤️
This story was SOOOOOOO freaking good. A conversation that could change the world.
Beautiful -
I cried myself into a puddle watching this
literally * s c r e a m i n g *
O sacred, wise, and wisdom-giving Plant,
Mother of science! now I feel thy power
Within me clear; not only to discern
Things in their causes, but to trace the ways
Of highest agents, deemed however wise.
Queen of this universe! do not believe
Those rigid threats of death: ye shall not die:
How should you? by the fruit? it gives you life
To knowledge; by the threatener? look on me,
Me, who have touched and tasted; yet both live,
And life more perfect have attained than Fate
Meant me, by venturing higher than my lot.
Shall that be shut to Man, which to the Beast
Is open? or will God incense his ire
For such a petty trespass? and not praise
Rather your dauntless virtue, whom the pain
Of death denounced, whatever thing death be,
Deterred not from achieving what might lead
To happier life, knowledge of good and evil;
Of good, how just? of evil, if what is evil
Be real, why not known, since easier shunned?
God therefore cannot hurt ye, and be just;
Not just, not God; not feared then, nor obeyed:
Your fear itself of death removes the fear.
Why then was this forbid? Why, but to awe;
Why, but to keep ye low and ignorant,
His worshippers? He knows that in the day
Ye eat thereof, your eyes that seem so clear,
Yet are but dim, shall perfectly be then
Opened and cleared, and ye shall be as Gods,
Knowing both good and evil, as they know.
It's good Mary went her own way and forged her own path. She had discovered so much more as a scientist than she ever did as a nun.
That is not Alfredo Montale, who reminded Mary of how her first lover,Tim, whom she met when she was 12 years old, gave her some marzipan.
It was a mistake that Lyra and Will listened to the Angels and stayed separated. Their parents just fought and died to overcome authority and people making decisions for you and the first thing they do is listen to a self proclaimed new authority figure.
Mary Malone wasn't a lesbian in the book.
she is now
I loved this interpretation so much more!
Yeah, adaptation means there will be some changes between the source material and the other media. So, we have a lesbian or bi Mary Malone now.
What doesn't it matter if she is lesbian or not? Whats important is the charakter of People and Mary Malone is a nice person. And that she loved another woman makes it even more genuisly with her abandon church
She never said she was in the show either, but really, it doesn’t matter. What matters is the fire her story lit in Will and Lyra.
This book was where the series lost me. CS Lewis was never as preachy as Philip Pullman. And Lewis wrote open Christian allegory! Good for him. In a time where you couldn't be ridiculed or persecuted for believing in something.
The ending of the final Narnia book is pretty preachy, iirc.
Amber spyglass was never preachy, it was an examination of ideologies and religion. It looked at things from a different perspective, providing a thought-provoking and extremely well-written thematic study. It was all done through the lense of a YA book as well, as well as through the perspective of the different characters. It wasnt made to ridicule people for their beliefs, it was made to explore the dangers of faith in an entirely fictional way. Yes, it explored real biblical ideas. But it did so in the form of a philosophical argument. He crafted something truly exquisite, something that I would take over a generic and highly cliche book of shallow themes. If you disagree with the books message, thats fine. Its supposed to spark debate.
@@wowsa0 How so? The kids die in a train crash and go to Heaven? So?
How is this preachy? The fact that a woman fell in love is preachy?
@@steveandjeanniefrith236 The fact that Susan never got to Narnia because she was interested in lipstick and parties and therefore an Unworthy Person for heaven is, in my opinion, EXTREMELY preachy.
TV producers get money for making characters gay, it's like product placement but for social agendas.
In the Amber Spyglass book, Mary's crush here is a man called Tim.
Bit weird and out of place. I suppose if you hadn't read the book you wouldn't notice.
@@bnm7990 then why?
@@bnm7990 So straight women aren’t deep enough?
@@freedomishealthy1086 I know is annoying for you, but have you stopped a bit to think what it feels to hide all the time who you are? See how your friends can experience love freely and you can't? The need to wait until you are an adult to tell your family who your partner is because otherwise you could not support yourself if your family chooses to reject you? That's why is more deep, she was not only abandoning her faith, she was also abandoning society's beliefs. This is not social agenda, new target, yeah. But you can't deny we have always been there, it's not something new.
@@rod750. Funnily enough I had many gay friends 20 years ago at University, and one of the lesbians decided she'd turn straight to be with me.
So yes, I totally understand, and I also think that gaywashing everything is self-defeating.
You know what is really out of place? That before 2000 approximately, 99% of the tv and movie characters were straight. Like, c'mon, that's not real. Mary's story only last less than 3 minutes and the importance of it is how she rediscovered love.
In the book, she was in love with a guy, she had relationships with several men. And then they dragged in this fucking tolerant nonsense that spoils the whole picture. Is it really worth ruining the canon for her sake? Or is it for the money?! This tolerance for good will bring nothing.
I saw another comment point this out but if it had been a guy, people would believe that Mary just had a new purpose of a wife and/or mother. With her love interest now being a woman, it quite majorly highlights why she left the convent and really emphasized the entire point of the story.
@@kadominyt169 Seriously?! Those. it is because of the woman that you need to leave the monastery, and not because of the guy? What nonsense. Moreover, she left the monastery, due to the fact that she began to be interested in science. Rather so. Mary was part of a monastic order, which was not isolated from society. She did not have to wear monastic vestments, it was enough to wear a crucifix on her chest.
She was allowed to engage in scientific activities. Then Mary stopped believing in God, as well as in good and evil. She lacked a sense of connection with the entire universe. Previously, she felt that she was connected with God, and through him with the whole universe. It seemed to her that without God, life has no meaning, no purpose. At one conference, she ate a piece of marzipan that brought back memories of being in love and made her question her faith. She began walking along the beach with Montal Alfredo, and she made up her mind to throw her crucifix into the sea. She also admitted that she kissed Montale at some point. And so she decided to die as a nun.
Mary then lived for several years with another man who was a climber. Then they decided to disperse. It may not have been an accurate answer in the book as to why she left the convent. And yet, they really decided to make Mary fall in love with a woman instead of a guy on the show. HBO needs to be off the agenda, at least where it shouldn't be.
@@user-go5ku7ju9c I’m not really sure why you think it’s nonsense but your acting like one of those miserable homophibics that can’t enjoy a show for the life of them. The gender of Mary’s love interest was one of the only major things they changed in the show, and even then the entire core of the show was the same as the book. Mary fell in love and stopped answering to religion, end of story.