Shoutout to INTOTHEAM for sponsoring this video and sending me these quality shirts! If you want to get some for yourself, use the following link and enter code "NONAT" at checkout! www.intotheam.com/nonat
For my future reference 0:00 - Sponsor 1:15 - Intro 2:44 - Core Rulebook (C Tier) 3:54 - Bestiary (A Tier) 4:17 - Lost Omens World Guide (C Tier) 4:43 - Lost Omens Character Guide (A Tier) 5:08 - Lost Omens Gods and Magic (D Tier) 5:51 - Gamemastery Guide (B Tier) 7:05 - Bestiary 2 and 3 (A Tier) 7:41 - Advanced Player's Guide (S Tier) 8:36 - Lost Omens Legends (C Tier) 9:05 - Lost Omens Pathfinder Society Guide (D Tier) 9:56 - Pathfinder 2e Beginner Box (S Tier) 11:10 - Lost Omens Ancestry Guide (A Tier) 11:31 - Lost Omens The Mwangi Expanse (B Tier) 12:40 - Secrets of Magic (S Tier) 13:08 - Guns and Gears (S Tier) 13:46 - Lost Omens Grand Bazaar (A Tier) 14:42 - Lost Omens Monsters of Myth (C Tier) 15:13 - Lost Omens Absalom (S Tier) 16:10 - Book of the Dead (B Tier) 17:21 - Lost Omens Knights of Lastwall (D Tier) 18:26 - Dark Archive (A Tier) 20:05 - Impossible Lands (S Tier) 20:45 - Outro
I'm not complaining but on videos like this I want to see the whole tierlist on a single image at the end of the video. Sometimes I don't have enough time :).
context is really important, especially for something like this. for example, Mwangi Expanse book is B-tier, but if you were doing a game set in the Mwangi Expanse that is a book that you would NEED.
not to mention, if you just jump to a single point, take a screen shot, and never come back to it, I don't believe it counts as having been viewed for the creator
Gamemastery Guide is A-tier, possibly even S-tier, for me. It is hands down the best GM guide ever published. Just think about the monster building rules or gestalt-like systems in the past; At best they were vague guidelines, and at worst they were hostility rejected by the community. Free Archetypes and the Monster Building rules alone make the GMG absolutely invaluable, and there's tons of other excellent advice that gives it legendary status on my bookshelf.
Only started this, but it's already a 10/10 video for acknowledging the core rule book layout being very hard to digest for beginners despite loving PF2e.
@@rowanbuck119 2e AoN and core rulebook hand in hand is the way ive been learning the system and its been so much easier than if id just tried using the CRB on its own
I'm not even mad that you put one of my favorite Lost Omens books at D-tier; your reasons are your own, and you laid them out well. But there was one thing that really made Gods and Magic click with me: the Boons and Curses written for the major gods (and the following web supplement with those for twenty of the less famous ones). Between that and the table in the back with the 200+ god entries, I had what I needed to build a god entry for Weydan (a Starfinder god) for my player's time-displaced vesk Champion (iruxi with reskinned ancestry feats). It did exactly what I love these books for: if there isn't something that I specifically need, it gives me all the context and information to build something thematic and balanced that fits right where it's supposed to, and as a GM I can pay it no higher compliment than that. To be perfectly fair, I'm also personally a sucker for mythology, so a book about gods is right up my alley. Minor addendum: Secrets of Magic is my favorite in the main line, still just fun to flip through and read when I have the time, on top of the ridiculously awesome content.
@@Nonat1s No worries- it's really only relevant if actively used anyway, it just happens to be a GM tool that I'm really fond of. It's a niche tool, no harm in recognizing that.
Really appreciate this video! I have nothing but good to say about the Beginner Box and I love that they released a small adventure pack that takes you to level four right from the end of the boxed campaign and all the pathfinder pawns for the monsters you need are included in the box. My campaign is currently on hold while we wait on a single player's job situation to change but I cannot wait to get back into PF2 and now that I've actually played it your videos are helping me out even more. I would love to see all the books listed on a single screen so that we can quickly view the comparison between them, especially if we are considering picking up a few and don't want to have to scan through the video to see your rating on each.
Core rulebook is A tier dawg. Come on. It's literally so good. Yeah the layout is annoying, but it has everything you could ever need to play for yeeeeeears
I absolutely agree, but for it being the face of the entire system, I had to dock serious points for presentation! It's often the first thing people see!
@@Nonat1s coming from 5E, CRB is way more organized with the navigation tool and repeating relevant traits on every entry you might encounter them. It is surprisingly better organized than one would think by simply looking at its size.
I love the mwangi expanse book, I never played in that area and most games I'm in barely take place in Golarion°tm but the ancestries, items and archetypes are legit cool as hell. Gnolls have been given so much love there which coming from 3.5 dnd was so refreshing to see.
I think the reason for the undead ancestries are archetypes and no, well, ancestries o versatile heritages, is that, with archetypes, the player can become undead in the middle of a campain and transform little by little. And the archetype sistem is a perfect mecanic in the game for that. Of course with the undead archetype, using the optional free archetype rule is mandatory so the player class no suffer. For the squeleton ancestry: or Paizo wanted a undead ancestry or they didn´t know how to make as archetype (as a progresive sistem) or they thougth that lose all your flesh is reason to born again.
Coming from DnD 5e, PF2e Core rulebook is amazing. At least a level above what I'm used to from WoTC. It's an A from me and I absolutely love Secrets of Magic and Book of the Dead; both are S-tier for me. I enjoyed Geb's writings and getting glimpses of how his mindset changed through the ages. Also, the statue that starts new and slowly crumbles to skeleton as the chapters continue is chef's kiss
As a forever GM for 9 years, 8 of which being with 5e, I had no idea how player-oriented the 5e books were until I switched to PF2e. Pathfinder gets this reputation as being meatier and harder to get into, but I am not kidding when I say that it is EASIER for me to plan sessions in PF2e. Why is that? The books are just THAT well made. No bullshit, no vague rules, or design. It's streamlined in the best ways. The tables are intuitive and give you everything you could want and more. The lore and story elements that are there are littered with intrigue and are open-ended enough to give you so many threads to incorporate into your games. It's all meat and no bullshit. And more than anything, they CARE about their GMs.
I'm curious to know whether you felt you rated these books more like a player than a GM? As someone who's looking to make their own campaign I would've rated the world guide and character guide higher than you did, simply for the amount of background lore you can use to flush our your campaign setting. But even so, a great list. And I'll definitely be using it to influence my future purchases as well. Also, the art is just amazing in all these books. It makes it all worth having them over using a (very useful) online tool like Archives of Nethys.
Legit, I'd order most of these books just as interesting coffee-table books. Something guests can pick up and flip through just for the art alone! Great conversation starters!
As a mythology nerd I love the lore of the gods in Golarian. Gods and Magic from 1e and Lost Omens: Gods and Magic from 2e are some of my favorite books to read over. I know they may not offer as much in the way of in game mechanics unless you’re a cleric, but they’re so good for a better understanding of the world. It’s especially interesting to see how gods like Nocticula ascended and Besmara grew in status between editions.
I ran beginner's box alongside troubles in otari and abomination vaults and it made the dungeon crawl have a little more options for in town events and quests. Very fun experience so far gotta love VTTs
Is it me or The Travel Guide is missing in the list. Great video anyways. If it’s possible could your share an image with the whole list order by tiers?
This was a great breakdown. I almost entirely agree. The Impossible Lands truly are filled with impossibly hot people. That art is so gorgeous. I do love the call outs about layout. That must be so hard to decide on at times as it can influence so much. It seems like usability was key for you. Usability of the material in your game and usability of the reader navigating the book. That is how websites tend to get judged. How pertinent is the content and how usable is the site!
One constraint on this rating of PathFinder 2e texts is NoNat1s is NOT running Adventure Paths which benefit from the Lore of Golarion in Lost Omens releases. Now, if playing in the World of Golarion, bump up the Lost Okens a tier (at least).
I've been playing RPG's since the original RED BOX. This might be the most useful video I've found so far for PF2E. I'm just getting into PF2E for Society, and this video was REALLY helpful. Thank you.
With the remaster on the horizon and all of the new players waiting for it along with the releases this year, I would love to see an update to this tier list and if your feelings have changed over the course of the year
I have not made the transition from PF1. But felt compelled to support them after their ORC manifesto. I run a campaign involving remains og the old Jistka Imperium and have i troduced my own homebrew artificers and warforged. I find there is a lot of useful convertible material in Guns and Gear and have just placed an order for a copy 😉
It's taken some time, but I'm finally coming over to seeing Pathfinder 2e is an S-tier game. Thanks for your content to get me excited about each session I GM and the possibilities of the game.
You exactly nailed what we hate from the CRB: It is a Player's Handbook AND a DM's Guide at the same time. They should have really done two books and keep things more succint and clear.
Interesting points and thoughts. Can't really argue much on the placement for any that I have. Felt like you had way too many S-tiers for the tier to hold weight, but I get it. xD
As someone with a birthday around the winter holidays who gets a lot of requests for gift ideas, this was the PERFECT video for me. Curious though. If you're planning to use a homebrewed world that doesn't necessarily follow the Golarion lore, would your ratings change for some of the Lost Omen books? Obviously stuff like the Character Guide or (as you mentioned in the video) Grand Bazaar are easy to drop into any world, but is that true for something like Absalom or Impossible Lands?
I don't think so. Even the books like Mwangi Expanse or Absalom are dripping with inspiration for any homebrew world. Anything from those books can be stolen and placed into whatever world you've created!
The Mwangi Expanse certainly capable of being dropped in to another setting with not much adaptation, especially since good African-inspired settings are so rare. (And this one is really, really good.)
So here's the thing with these book layouts. It's better to have them arranged to best inspire the players. So yeah, put the mirror heritage with the mirror lore, since that's when you're going to become excited to play one. What about making it easy for players to look it up? They did they already, by hosting a website with a search feature that you can check anytime with your phone.
Excellent video. Getting into the game with all of its supplements can be a little daunting, but this was a big help. One question though: what is it with the "Lost Omens" line? How/Why is it separate? And what's the difference between it and the regular range?
Did you miss the travel guide? I really enjoyed Knights of Lastwall, but mechanically I see your point. It is kind of underwhelming what all this stuff does and for something niche, that it isn't better than more widely applicable stuff makes it hard to use outside of undead specific cases. Lore wise it was a good book, though.
For me, Lastwall is much higher, but I get that it is very specific niche. I have a Lizardfolk Ghost, Former Knight of Lastwall (Now a Battlepriest of Sorrows Sword) who is working on getting back into the Order of Knights Reclaimant. So I am aware that I'm 100% biased in my value of that book.
I really would just love some Cheliax specific content. I get that they propably tabbed that area pretty hard back in first edition. But it would be sweet to also have something for 2E
Oh damn, I'd never looked into Pathfinder 2e (though I played 1e back when the Other Game's 4e came out, we had been a 3.5e group before, now 5e) but now I'm regretting it, these books seem awesome.
New sub scriber, I like the content, I'm gonna try Pathfinder 2e cuz of you. Quick question tho, are those your real teeth and if so when did you become a vampire?
So as somebody who is just getting interested in Pathfinder, am I correct in assuming that of the "two lines of books" anything with Lost Omens is more-or-less geared as more of a lore/flavor book with mechanics as a bonus, as a general rule? Sounds like some of the newer ones are much more mixed in that regard though, which is nice.
Interesting to hear how many people have issues with the layout of the CRB. I honestly never noticed because they do cross-reference items from the equipment section to treasure (and the index is a thing) and that's something I've never had a problem with, even before I started playing TTRPGs. Looking at it again, though, I can definitely see where the complaints come from. And somebody who doesn't realise you can ignore half the book as a player (and a lot of it as a GM, unless it's relevant) would for sure feel intimidated.
totaly agree about the absalom book - one of the few books ive got and its brillient not to knock D&D 5e - there will allways be a place in my hart for it due to it being my first ttrpg way back in the day but the only comparable 5e book they have like that is the eberron campaingn book imho oh and a good guid to the books its given me an idea of what i want to get the first 3 books i got for pathfinder were the core rules, the bestiery and abomanation vaults someone got me the beginers box for x-mess last - at first i was like why have you got me this ive allready got the 'advanced' mode rule book but actualy it will be realy good to run that for mates and then move on up to advanced play i also picked up the otari adventure cos thats the same area as A.V hence also picking up absalom - my thinking was this is 'a local adventure for local people'.... after that i'd like to go desert based adventures but we'll see which way the players want go
Hi there, I've just discovered your channel in my quest to migrate to another d20-based TTRPG in light of all the 5e drama. I'm keen to give Pathfinder 2e a go so watched this video to wrap my head around where to start and what books I should get. Given you gave the Core Rulebook a C-tier only because it's a necessary book, but would have graded it lower if it weren't for that because it's a mess in structure and format, could you do a video on navigating the book for noobs like me? Sorry if you've already done such a video, I couldn't find anything on it when I searched.
If you pull up Archive of Nethys, you can find basically all of the information thats in the core rulebook on there, and itll tell you what page things are on in the core rulebook. Thats a good starting spot ive found (as someone in the same position as you) to really being able to fully comprehend the stuff thats in the CRB
Starting to build my collection and am very interested in learning about the world Pathfinder is set in. I notice there are a lot of regional books out there for first edition. Are they still relevant or has the world changed a lot for 2nd edition?
To the World Guide and Gods and Magic, I need to shout out the PF1E Inner Sea World Guide and Inner Sea Gods. If you're a lore nerd like me, these books are fantastic, and almost 100% of the old World Guide (this is much more lore than crunch) and most of Gods (less a few subclasses and stat blocks) are fully compatible with 2E. If you aren't recording crunch, these are two of my favorite all-time splats for any system.
The only thing I can disagree with is the fact that the "Necessary to buy" criteria is bringing down the Absolute All-Stars of the Lost Omens line. I understand that not everyone runs Adventure Paths. I understand not everyone runs in the Lost Omens setting. But it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth seeing Legends listed as D-Tier, when it was the first to really confirm that the Lost Omens line has been nothing but Best In Show as far as Lore Books are concerned. Seriously, the term Bad Lost Omens book is an oxymoron. Also, Gods and Magic giving the first major article on Redeemed Nocticula being my absolutely biased reason it should be higher.
Hey, I'm sorry I know this was posted a while ago but I'm super new to pathfinder and I'm kinda lost. How do these GM guide and Player guide compare to the remaster ones?
The only thing I disagree with is that the PF2e Core Rulebook is soo much better than D&D5e's. There's even tabs on the side of each page that tell you where you are, so you can just flip through it till you get to the section you're looking for.
I have such mixed feelings about the Lost Omens line...I run my own setting, so 90% of the content (namely all the Golarion lore) in those books is superfluous...but then they throw in all the mechanical stuff like new ancestries, which I absolutely want to make use of. Personally I wish they'd use just the Rulebooks line for settings-neutral mechanics, maybe with a chapter at the back explaining how it all fits into Golarion, and then focus the Lost Omens line purely on Golarion lore with no mechanics at all.
Great video! I'm looking to discover new game systems for (obvious) reasons, and Pathfinder is quite high on my list of games to try! So thank you for this tier list!
Me 2. I've been researching the books all day and learning about the differences in player progression. My goodness is dnd showing its age. Pathfinder has so many more interesting choices to make as you level. Feats are so much cooler. And the three action system looks like it can mitigate a lot of the feels bads in dnd when you critically fail and role for your attack action and waste a whole turn. Plus more of an importance is given to magical items and gear so I think it will be way more rewarding to play Pathfinder
Is there a Pathfinder 2E version of DnDbeyond? Basically I am looking for a useful digital tool for both players and GM's to aid my players and myself at the table.
Book of the dead is probably my favorite. Undead are always my go-to evil guys. You can put them anywhere, they are fundamentaly evil and they appear because magic. They are litteraly like: let's wait here for 500 years and kill the first guy coming through this door.
do you have/have you thought of, making a video on how to read the core rulebooks for a first timer? it's not the most straightforward book in the world so it would probably be immeasurably helpful to new GM's (and some new players) do have a sort of general gist of what's important to read on a first study.
Thought i was content with just first two bestiary books, now that ive heard of clockwork dragon tho now im curious with what else in in bestiary book 3.
I'm in the same boat and picking what books to grab now. I think it depends on if you want to build your own world or follow a source material campaign. I'm going to start with the Core Rulebook, lost Omens World Guide, and The Slithering for my adventure book. If you are going to make your own setting maybe add more if the core rulebooks to your list
"Go back to Shelyn's Jail." *bonk* Funny you considered the corebook c, i guess the beginner's box rulebooks work better? Also curse you for using monster hunter 2 village music, mah feels.
I agree with most of this list, but as a GM I'd rate a few of the gm-facing books higher. The Gamemastery Guide is the best 'not a DMG' DMG I have ever read, in 40 years of TTRPG gaming. It's a lot more than just optional rules. Every PF2e GM should own and read this book cover to cover, it's fantastic for experienced & new GMs alike. A Tier. Coming from D&D having never played PF1e (my group wasn't the biggest fan of D&D 3.x, so we chose 4e over PF1e), the Lost Omens: World Guide is the book that made me fall in love with Golarion. Before I read it, I was going to set my campaign in Forgotten Realms, which seems laughable now. It's an incredible setting and IMHO every GM who is planning a campaign or preparing to run an AP in PF2e, owes it to themselves to read it first. B Tier.
I think the lost omen books and actual rulebooks should have been seperated, since you can play the game without having touched or heard of a single lost omens book, so they all automatically lose in the "necessary" section. When it comes to homebrew worlds none of them are really useful, besides the grand bazaar maybe and if you want to get inspired, except for "Gods and Magic" as 99% of people that run Pathfinder and have homebrew worlds use the gods of Pathfinder and that book gives you a great insight on all the gods and their jobs. From that perspectvie the gods and magic book was the most useful book to me.
Shoutout to INTOTHEAM for sponsoring this video and sending me these quality shirts! If you want to get some for yourself, use the following link and enter code "NONAT" at checkout!
www.intotheam.com/nonat
Wait where the Lost Omens Travelers Guide? I know niche is an understatement for that book but would loved to have seen it ranked
For my future reference
0:00 - Sponsor
1:15 - Intro
2:44 - Core Rulebook (C Tier)
3:54 - Bestiary (A Tier)
4:17 - Lost Omens World Guide (C Tier)
4:43 - Lost Omens Character Guide (A Tier)
5:08 - Lost Omens Gods and Magic (D Tier)
5:51 - Gamemastery Guide (B Tier)
7:05 - Bestiary 2 and 3 (A Tier)
7:41 - Advanced Player's Guide (S Tier)
8:36 - Lost Omens Legends (C Tier)
9:05 - Lost Omens Pathfinder Society Guide (D Tier)
9:56 - Pathfinder 2e Beginner Box (S Tier)
11:10 - Lost Omens Ancestry Guide (A Tier)
11:31 - Lost Omens The Mwangi Expanse (B Tier)
12:40 - Secrets of Magic (S Tier)
13:08 - Guns and Gears (S Tier)
13:46 - Lost Omens Grand Bazaar (A Tier)
14:42 - Lost Omens Monsters of Myth (C Tier)
15:13 - Lost Omens Absalom (S Tier)
16:10 - Book of the Dead (B Tier)
17:21 - Lost Omens Knights of Lastwall (D Tier)
18:26 - Dark Archive (A Tier)
20:05 - Impossible Lands (S Tier)
20:45 - Outro
You my friend have done God's work
You are that guy 🔥
Legend.
Thank you!!!
I'm not complaining but on videos like this I want to see the whole tierlist on a single image at the end of the video. Sometimes I don't have enough time :).
Pretty sure thats by design. So you have to watch the whole video. But yes, def effects how useful this video is.
This 👆
context is really important, especially for something like this. for example, Mwangi Expanse book is B-tier, but if you were doing a game set in the Mwangi Expanse that is a book that you would NEED.
not to mention, if you just jump to a single point, take a screen shot, and never come back to it, I don't believe it counts as having been viewed for the creator
Gamemastery Guide is A-tier, possibly even S-tier, for me. It is hands down the best GM guide ever published. Just think about the monster building rules or gestalt-like systems in the past; At best they were vague guidelines, and at worst they were hostility rejected by the community. Free Archetypes and the Monster Building rules alone make the GMG absolutely invaluable, and there's tons of other excellent advice that gives it legendary status on my bookshelf.
Only started this, but it's already a 10/10 video for acknowledging the core rule book layout being very hard to digest for beginners despite loving PF2e.
Yeah the core rulebook is poorly organized to hell. Just you TRY to find alchemical bombs. Hell, just you try to find rules on how checks work.
@@Timeward76 Thank goodness for the 2e AoN, makes that all so much more manageable! 😄
I actually like the layout. There’s underlying scheme behind it that I can’t quite pinpoint to words. Perhaps it’s draw to chaos.
@@rowanbuck119 2e AoN and core rulebook hand in hand is the way ive been learning the system and its been so much easier than if id just tried using the CRB on its own
I'm not even mad that you put one of my favorite Lost Omens books at D-tier; your reasons are your own, and you laid them out well. But there was one thing that really made Gods and Magic click with me: the Boons and Curses written for the major gods (and the following web supplement with those for twenty of the less famous ones). Between that and the table in the back with the 200+ god entries, I had what I needed to build a god entry for Weydan (a Starfinder god) for my player's time-displaced vesk Champion (iruxi with reskinned ancestry feats). It did exactly what I love these books for: if there isn't something that I specifically need, it gives me all the context and information to build something thematic and balanced that fits right where it's supposed to, and as a GM I can pay it no higher compliment than that.
To be perfectly fair, I'm also personally a sucker for mythology, so a book about gods is right up my alley.
Minor addendum: Secrets of Magic is my favorite in the main line, still just fun to flip through and read when I have the time, on top of the ridiculously awesome content.
Fairrrrrr. I totally spaced on the boons and curses coming from G&M. With that in mind, I would've totally bumped it up to C-Tier.
@@Nonat1s No worries- it's really only relevant if actively used anyway, it just happens to be a GM tool that I'm really fond of. It's a niche tool, no harm in recognizing that.
I've run the Beginner's Box at multiple conventions and it is always great. The first few rooms are a little combat heavy, but a great dungeon.
What are the best conventions to play Pathfinder in your opinion?
@@jasonsoares326 Gen Con would probably be the best one
Really appreciate this video! I have nothing but good to say about the Beginner Box and I love that they released a small adventure pack that takes you to level four right from the end of the boxed campaign and all the pathfinder pawns for the monsters you need are included in the box. My campaign is currently on hold while we wait on a single player's job situation to change but I cannot wait to get back into PF2 and now that I've actually played it your videos are helping me out even more. I would love to see all the books listed on a single screen so that we can quickly view the comparison between them, especially if we are considering picking up a few and don't want to have to scan through the video to see your rating on each.
Core rulebook is A tier dawg. Come on. It's literally so good. Yeah the layout is annoying, but it has everything you could ever need to play for yeeeeeears
I absolutely agree, but for it being the face of the entire system, I had to dock serious points for presentation! It's often the first thing people see!
@@Nonat1s coming from 5E, CRB is way more organized with the navigation tool and repeating relevant traits on every entry you might encounter them. It is surprisingly better organized than one would think by simply looking at its size.
Oh, this book is terrible - awful layout. Great content (required), but so hard to figure out as a new player. 10/10 of in my group agree.
I love the mwangi expanse book, I never played in that area and most games I'm in barely take place in Golarion°tm but the ancestries, items and archetypes are legit cool as hell. Gnolls have been given so much love there which coming from 3.5 dnd was so refreshing to see.
Love this....but I was looking forward to a review of the "Travel Guide", too! 😁
You missed the Travel Guide which I absolutely love
I think the reason for the undead ancestries are archetypes and no, well, ancestries o versatile heritages, is that, with archetypes, the player can become undead in the middle of a campain and transform little by little. And the archetype sistem is a perfect mecanic in the game for that.
Of course with the undead archetype, using the optional free archetype rule is mandatory so the player class no suffer.
For the squeleton ancestry: or Paizo wanted a undead ancestry or they didn´t know how to make as archetype (as a progresive sistem) or they thougth that lose all your flesh is reason to born again.
Coming from DnD 5e, PF2e Core rulebook is amazing. At least a level above what I'm used to from WoTC. It's an A from me and I absolutely love Secrets of Magic and Book of the Dead; both are S-tier for me. I enjoyed Geb's writings and getting glimpses of how his mindset changed through the ages. Also, the statue that starts new and slowly crumbles to skeleton as the chapters continue is chef's kiss
As a forever GM for 9 years, 8 of which being with 5e, I had no idea how player-oriented the 5e books were until I switched to PF2e. Pathfinder gets this reputation as being meatier and harder to get into, but I am not kidding when I say that it is EASIER for me to plan sessions in PF2e. Why is that? The books are just THAT well made. No bullshit, no vague rules, or design. It's streamlined in the best ways. The tables are intuitive and give you everything you could want and more. The lore and story elements that are there are littered with intrigue and are open-ended enough to give you so many threads to incorporate into your games. It's all meat and no bullshit. And more than anything, they CARE about their GMs.
I'm curious to know whether you felt you rated these books more like a player than a GM? As someone who's looking to make their own campaign I would've rated the world guide and character guide higher than you did, simply for the amount of background lore you can use to flush our your campaign setting.
But even so, a great list. And I'll definitely be using it to influence my future purchases as well.
Also, the art is just amazing in all these books. It makes it all worth having them over using a (very useful) online tool like Archives of Nethys.
Legit, I'd order most of these books just as interesting coffee-table books. Something guests can pick up and flip through just for the art alone! Great conversation starters!
As a mythology nerd I love the lore of the gods in Golarian. Gods and Magic from 1e and Lost Omens: Gods and Magic from 2e are some of my favorite books to read over. I know they may not offer as much in the way of in game mechanics unless you’re a cleric, but they’re so good for a better understanding of the world. It’s especially interesting to see how gods like Nocticula ascended and Besmara grew in status between editions.
I ran beginner's box alongside troubles in otari and abomination vaults and it made the dungeon crawl have a little more options for in town events and quests. Very fun experience so far gotta love VTTs
No Travel Guide?
Is it me or The Travel Guide is missing in the list. Great video anyways. If it’s possible could your share an image with the whole list order by tiers?
Thank you for this list! Was very helpful in starting out my Pathfinder book collection :)
This was a great breakdown. I almost entirely agree. The Impossible Lands truly are filled with impossibly hot people. That art is so gorgeous. I do love the call outs about layout. That must be so hard to decide on at times as it can influence so much. It seems like usability was key for you. Usability of the material in your game and usability of the reader navigating the book. That is how websites tend to get judged. How pertinent is the content and how usable is the site!
Great video; very helpful when looking at which books to get!
Love this. As someone looking to get into the game for a potential future campaign, its good to know what's out there
Gamemastery guide also has the rules for building creatures and traps, so it's pretty important for GMs on that front.
Excellent content buddy, keeping coming out
One constraint on this rating of PathFinder 2e texts is NoNat1s is NOT running Adventure Paths which benefit from the Lore of Golarion in Lost Omens releases.
Now, if playing in the World of Golarion, bump up the Lost Okens a tier (at least).
I've been playing RPG's since the original RED BOX. This might be the most useful video I've found so far for PF2E. I'm just getting into PF2E for Society, and this video was REALLY helpful. Thank you.
With the remaster on the horizon and all of the new players waiting for it along with the releases this year, I would love to see an update to this tier list and if your feelings have changed over the course of the year
I have not made the transition from PF1. But felt compelled to support them after their ORC manifesto.
I run a campaign involving remains og the old Jistka Imperium and have i troduced my own homebrew artificers and warforged. I find there is a lot of useful convertible material in Guns and Gear and have just placed an order for a copy 😉
It's taken some time, but I'm finally coming over to seeing Pathfinder 2e is an S-tier game. Thanks for your content to get me excited about each session I GM and the possibilities of the game.
You exactly nailed what we hate from the CRB: It is a Player's Handbook AND a DM's Guide at the same time. They should have really done two books and keep things more succint and clear.
Gods and magic should’ve been a champion and cleric expansion. We really need another advanced players guide.
Would love to see this list written out with grades. The content is extremely helpful!
This video is so cool! Also for the algorithm!!!!
Interesting points and thoughts. Can't really argue much on the placement for any that I have. Felt like you had way too many S-tiers for the tier to hold weight, but I get it. xD
I loved the mwangi expanse because ANADI.
I think more people would be excited for GNOLLS, since people have been begging WotC to add them as a playable option, and they have thus far refused.
@@Nyrufa
Correction my fine gamer...
"...they HAD thus far...."
These aren't your normal AD&D Gnolls OG gamers.
I play regularly with Nate Wright, the person who wrote Anadi, and let him know how you feel!
@@Kaizensan1775 Why would I want to play as a demonic hyena man, if not to run around voring people?
Lost Omen's Travel Guide after seeing this video: ;-;
Thank you! My gods you’ve saved me from screwing up my book purchases. I’m on the verge of coming back to Pathfinder, so thank you.
As someone with a birthday around the winter holidays who gets a lot of requests for gift ideas, this was the PERFECT video for me.
Curious though. If you're planning to use a homebrewed world that doesn't necessarily follow the Golarion lore, would your ratings change for some of the Lost Omen books? Obviously stuff like the Character Guide or (as you mentioned in the video) Grand Bazaar are easy to drop into any world, but is that true for something like Absalom or Impossible Lands?
I don't think so. Even the books like Mwangi Expanse or Absalom are dripping with inspiration for any homebrew world. Anything from those books can be stolen and placed into whatever world you've created!
The Mwangi Expanse certainly capable of being dropped in to another setting with not much adaptation, especially since good African-inspired settings are so rare. (And this one is really, really good.)
So here's the thing with these book layouts. It's better to have them arranged to best inspire the players.
So yeah, put the mirror heritage with the mirror lore, since that's when you're going to become excited to play one.
What about making it easy for players to look it up?
They did they already, by hosting a website with a search feature that you can check anytime with your phone.
You get my like the moment you point out the flaws in the CRB layout
Beginner's Box 📦 is where everyone should start. Incredible value which also translates varying core mechanics.
Excellent video. Getting into the game with all of its supplements can be a little daunting, but this was a big help.
One question though: what is it with the "Lost Omens" line? How/Why is it separate? And what's the difference between it and the regular range?
Lost Omens are the lore focused books
Did you miss the travel guide?
I really enjoyed Knights of Lastwall, but mechanically I see your point. It is kind of underwhelming what all this stuff does and for something niche, that it isn't better than more widely applicable stuff makes it hard to use outside of undead specific cases.
Lore wise it was a good book, though.
FANTASTIC Tier List. Thank you
For me, Lastwall is much higher, but I get that it is very specific niche.
I have a Lizardfolk Ghost, Former Knight of Lastwall (Now a Battlepriest of Sorrows Sword) who is working on getting back into the Order of Knights Reclaimant. So I am aware that I'm 100% biased in my value of that book.
Welp, probably going to be picking up the impossible lands book now.
Sphinx-Mommy on the cover would be proud.
I really would just love some Cheliax specific content. I get that they propably tabbed that area pretty hard back in first edition. But it would be sweet to also have something for 2E
It will come! There are ten main regions in Golarion, with there own adventure path and stuff. We should get one eventually!
As far as I remember things like alchemical or magical items were always in the treasure section of every DnD and PF edition.
Now looking back they can make a book that has the player parts of the core rule book and a dm part of the GM system for the core rules book.
Oh damn, I'd never looked into Pathfinder 2e (though I played 1e back when the Other Game's 4e came out, we had been a 3.5e group before, now 5e) but now I'm regretting it, these books seem awesome.
New sub scriber, I like the content, I'm gonna try Pathfinder 2e cuz of you. Quick question tho, are those your real teeth and if so when did you become a vampire?
So as somebody who is just getting interested in Pathfinder, am I correct in assuming that of the "two lines of books" anything with Lost Omens is more-or-less geared as more of a lore/flavor book with mechanics as a bonus, as a general rule? Sounds like some of the newer ones are much more mixed in that regard though, which is nice.
Interesting to hear how many people have issues with the layout of the CRB. I honestly never noticed because they do cross-reference items from the equipment section to treasure (and the index is a thing) and that's something I've never had a problem with, even before I started playing TTRPGs. Looking at it again, though, I can definitely see where the complaints come from. And somebody who doesn't realise you can ignore half the book as a player (and a lot of it as a GM, unless it's relevant) would for sure feel intimidated.
I just bought the Beginners box...it was so relieving seeing it getting an S-tier AFTER the purchase xD
I started reading the core book to understand the system. I thought it was only me confused with the organization.
Hey no nat you've officially got famous enough for the telegram scammers to lurk around your channel pretending to be you. Congrats man.
It's absolutely a scam.
Just went through and reported every one of those spam comments hussah
totaly agree about the absalom book - one of the few books ive got and its brillient
not to knock D&D 5e - there will allways be a place in my hart for it due to it being my first ttrpg way back in the day
but the only comparable 5e book they have like that is the eberron campaingn book imho
oh and a good guid to the books its given me an idea of what i want to get
the first 3 books i got for pathfinder were the core rules, the bestiery and abomanation vaults
someone got me the beginers box for x-mess last - at first i was like why have you got me this ive allready got the 'advanced' mode rule book
but actualy it will be realy good to run that for mates and then move on up to advanced play
i also picked up the otari adventure cos thats the same area as A.V hence also picking up absalom -
my thinking was this is 'a local adventure for local people'....
after that i'd like to go desert based adventures but we'll see which way the players want go
You. . . forgot the travel guide 😥
I'm a lot more interested in Absalom now though; might have to pick that up!
I knowwww! I have no clue how I managed to miss it. I was using the official list of books and everything lol
@@Nonat1s so what are you thinking about it?
Hi there,
I've just discovered your channel in my quest to migrate to another d20-based TTRPG in light of all the 5e drama. I'm keen to give Pathfinder 2e a go so watched this video to wrap my head around where to start and what books I should get.
Given you gave the Core Rulebook a C-tier only because it's a necessary book, but would have graded it lower if it weren't for that because it's a mess in structure and format, could you do a video on navigating the book for noobs like me? Sorry if you've already done such a video, I couldn't find anything on it when I searched.
If you pull up Archive of Nethys, you can find basically all of the information thats in the core rulebook on there, and itll tell you what page things are on in the core rulebook. Thats a good starting spot ive found (as someone in the same position as you) to really being able to fully comprehend the stuff thats in the CRB
Starting to build my collection and am very interested in learning about the world Pathfinder is set in. I notice there are a lot of regional books out there for first edition. Are they still relevant or has the world changed a lot for 2nd edition?
1st Ed Pathfinder is 10 years earlier (on the timeline) than PF2 is. So yes, some of the info of the older books are still relevant.
so if im just starting the beginner box and advance guide is good?
best Magic the gathering video
To the World Guide and Gods and Magic, I need to shout out the PF1E Inner Sea World Guide and Inner Sea Gods.
If you're a lore nerd like me, these books are fantastic, and almost 100% of the old World Guide (this is much more lore than crunch) and most of Gods (less a few subclasses and stat blocks) are fully compatible with 2E.
If you aren't recording crunch, these are two of my favorite all-time splats for any system.
The only thing I can disagree with is the fact that the "Necessary to buy" criteria is bringing down the Absolute All-Stars of the Lost Omens line. I understand that not everyone runs Adventure Paths. I understand not everyone runs in the Lost Omens setting. But it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth seeing Legends listed as D-Tier, when it was the first to really confirm that the Lost Omens line has been nothing but Best In Show as far as Lore Books are concerned. Seriously, the term Bad Lost Omens book is an oxymoron.
Also, Gods and Magic giving the first major article on Redeemed Nocticula being my absolutely biased reason it should be higher.
Hey, I'm sorry I know this was posted a while ago but I'm super new to pathfinder and I'm kinda lost. How do these GM guide and Player guide compare to the remaster ones?
The only thing I disagree with is that the PF2e Core Rulebook is soo much better than D&D5e's.
There's even tabs on the side of each page that tell you where you are, so you can just flip through it till you get to the section you're looking for.
I have such mixed feelings about the Lost Omens line...I run my own setting, so 90% of the content (namely all the Golarion lore) in those books is superfluous...but then they throw in all the mechanical stuff like new ancestries, which I absolutely want to make use of. Personally I wish they'd use just the Rulebooks line for settings-neutral mechanics, maybe with a chapter at the back explaining how it all fits into Golarion, and then focus the Lost Omens line purely on Golarion lore with no mechanics at all.
Great video! I'm looking to discover new game systems for (obvious) reasons, and Pathfinder is quite high on my list of games to try! So thank you for this tier list!
lol, my halfling Investigator loves "Thats Odd"!
I always imagine it like in the Sherlock movies or games where the things to investigate kind of highlight for a moment.
Also in impossible lands is recipes for desserts!
The more i learn about pathfinder, the more I don't know why I played 5e so long.
Me 2. I've been researching the books all day and learning about the differences in player progression. My goodness is dnd showing its age. Pathfinder has so many more interesting choices to make as you level. Feats are so much cooler. And the three action system looks like it can mitigate a lot of the feels bads in dnd when you critically fail and role for your attack action and waste a whole turn. Plus more of an importance is given to magical items and gear so I think it will be way more rewarding to play Pathfinder
Is there a Pathfinder 2E version of DnDbeyond?
Basically I am looking for a useful digital tool for both players and GM's to aid my players and myself at the table.
@@HyperShadic0 thank you very much for the elaborate response, I appreciate it.
For character builders, Pathbuilder and Wanderers Guide are the two big ones. They’re also both free
Lol I think I’ll pick up dark archive I kinda like that layout lol
Book of the dead is probably my favorite. Undead are always my go-to evil guys. You can put them anywhere, they are fundamentaly evil and they appear because magic. They are litteraly like: let's wait here for 500 years and kill the first guy coming through this door.
do you have/have you thought of, making a video on how to read the core rulebooks for a first timer? it's not the most straightforward book in the world so it would probably be immeasurably helpful to new GM's (and some new players) do have a sort of general gist of what's important to read on a first study.
The PDF is great for building characters cause you can just flip through the tabs. I haven’t read the whole thing, though.
Thought i was content with just first two bestiary books, now that ive heard of clockwork dragon tho now im curious with what else in in bestiary book 3.
I am still confused on what to buy as a dm for pathfinder 2e coming over from 5e
I'm in the same boat and picking what books to grab now. I think it depends on if you want to build your own world or follow a source material campaign. I'm going to start with the Core Rulebook, lost Omens World Guide, and The Slithering for my adventure book. If you are going to make your own setting maybe add more if the core rulebooks to your list
what happened to the traveler's guide.
20:31 Nonat... you may be spending too much time on the internet 🤣
you forgot a book, lost omens: travel guide.
Honestly what sold me PF2 are the archetypes in the APG and they don't even get a mention ^^'
Yeah I mean if I was letting players do book of the dead archtypes 1000% they are going to be free archetypes.
"Go back to Shelyn's Jail." *bonk*
Funny you considered the corebook c, i guess the beginner's box rulebooks work better?
Also curse you for using monster hunter 2 village music, mah feels.
This tier list definitely has a player slant
Impossible Lands: *exists*
Nonat: *bi panic*
the only rulebook i need is archives of nethys 😎
...god i'm probably missing out on so much cool lore stuff and art in the real books
I'm here to get informed after the Dungeapocalypse
📝 *You should redo this tier list.*
*An make it into 2 videos.*
*One for players & another for Gamemasters.*
A B 3 sounds about right
What is a Lost Omens book? Are they like the old “Races of…..” 3.5 books or something? Curious
It's the "Lore" line of books! Usually focused on people, places, monsters, cultures, etc.
@@Nonat1s Ah okay. Interesting
I agree with most of this list, but as a GM I'd rate a few of the gm-facing books higher. The Gamemastery Guide is the best 'not a DMG' DMG I have ever read, in 40 years of TTRPG gaming. It's a lot more than just optional rules. Every PF2e GM should own and read this book cover to cover, it's fantastic for experienced & new GMs alike. A Tier.
Coming from D&D having never played PF1e (my group wasn't the biggest fan of D&D 3.x, so we chose 4e over PF1e), the Lost Omens: World Guide is the book that made me fall in love with Golarion. Before I read it, I was going to set my campaign in Forgotten Realms, which seems laughable now. It's an incredible setting and IMHO every GM who is planning a campaign or preparing to run an AP in PF2e, owes it to themselves to read it first. B Tier.
Should a new player get the Advanced Player's Guide instead of the Core Rulebook?
someone played dark souls 3 =) i can recognize that vordt boss battle theme from anywhere lol.
how is that video marked with magic the gathering???
Because NoNat ❤️s PathFinder 2e so hard it attracts the attention of MtG....
you missed the travel Guide book
Please add an image with all the books and their ratings at the end, it'd make this less Paizo-like (messy)
I just played through PF 2e begginer box with some people and imo it is not good, some real balance issue problems.
I wanted to toss my monitor because of that background music!! ;)
Bro is a vampire
I think the lost omen books and actual rulebooks should have been seperated, since you can play the game without having touched or heard of a single lost omens book, so they all automatically lose in the "necessary" section.
When it comes to homebrew worlds none of them are really useful, besides the grand bazaar maybe and if you want to get inspired, except for "Gods and Magic" as 99% of people that run Pathfinder and have homebrew worlds use the gods of Pathfinder and that book gives you a great insight on all the gods and their jobs. From that perspectvie the gods and magic book was the most useful book to me.
other than the core rulebook, the online guide has just about everything you'll ever need.