Mad Men: Joan Holloway, A Subversive Venus
Vložit
- čas přidán 20. 09. 2017
- Head-turning and all-knowing, Joan Holloway is one of the most subversive characters in Matthew Weiner’s Mad Men. The unexpectedness of Joan’s character arc, and how much her evolution surprises even herself, is what makes her so compelling.
Sign up to our email newsletter for updates on new videos, fun film trivia, news on giveaways, longform content, events and more! bit.ly/2oVVB1Q
If you like this video, subscribe to our CZcams channel for more: / screenprism
Like ScreenPrism on Facebook: / screenprism
Follow ScreenPrism on Twitter: / screenprism
Visit ScreenPrism.com: screenprism.com/ - Krátké a kreslené filmy
There was always something I really liked about her character. She played it so well. Typically good looking people tend to get all the perks in life but I saw how her looks got in the way of the business side of her. It was both her success and downfall.
Yet it wasn't a problem for Don. Sexism was the real problem.
@@Tracymmo still is with SOME men....
@@jazzysophie9943 oh shut up
JJ Nobody asked for your opinion dimwit.
Ironically today women would hold that more against her in the office. Double standards exist on both sides unfortunately.
As Bobbie once said: "Don't be a man. You can't. Be a woman, it's powerful business when done correctly."
The definition of Joan.
Yes. One of the best quotes of the series. And I think Peggy, the intended recipient of that line, also followed that advice quite well, on her own terms.
@@liprincessprincess I think a huge part of Peggy's arc was learning when and when not to act like Don. I think she treaded that line in a lot of ways.
Don never tries to sleep with Joan because he can't dominate her. Every other woman, he enjoys overwhelming them with his charm and strength. He knows Joan is as strong as he.
The only other woman he couldn't really overwhelm or dominate was Faye, but we all know how that went. The only possible healthy relationship and step in his life and he tosses it away lol
@@emilycanfield2634 yes, for Megan. GROSS!!!!!
Joan scared the shit out of Don.
@@triciajohansen3027 right? It was kinda awesome
@@triciajohansen3027 i love how Roger Sterling said ‘and they’d blame u for their lost youth years’ and Don is like ‘no’. Then Megan played that tape and got 1 mil to fuck off.
Smashing Greg's head with the vase was the best thing ever..
Throwing Greg out was awe-inspiring; my jaw dropped. 😀
I really HATED him.
Because Greg weighed less than her despite being a former quarterback in college.
@@kenburns4547 Probably the concussions got to him
Greg was a bully, a coward and a fraud. Things seemed to go downhill after Roger...where her men were concerned.
"Marilyn's really a Joan, not the other way around!"
@@kenburns4547 bellend
Yes Joan's FATTER.
@@SovereignStatesman incel
@@SovereignStatesman yo wtf
The fuck is this reply section
I want to be Joan's hype man every time she demolishes someone
Liam Eady Yes! Me too!
I love it when she was fighting with her husband and he said I don't want to argue with you and she says then stop talking ☺️ I just found that funny!
You're already a mangina.
@@SovereignStatesman Damn, careful with that fragile masculinity boi, looks like it could break at the slightest offense :')
@@ykMMD love seeing your comments on MM videos calling out the sexists! keep it up 😊
I love how you describe how Joan would never “unsex” herself the way Peggy does to a certain extent. Very Shakespearean.
I miss Mad Men.
Me too!
So badly
I'm still watching it
Same, I watch it over and over again. Havent stop since it air... and sometimes I hope that they will pick it up, even though I know they never will.
Imedias Rez If you have DIRECTV you can see it every night at seven on the audience channel number 239. I watch it every night except Friday. I’m busy on Friday LOL
Moral of the story: be who you are, embrace who you are, but know how to play the game!
Dude.. amen to that!
It doesn’t work unless you’re super hot like her.
What game?
@@NN-fz4pd confidence is everything
Looks help but I know alpha women who are plain Jane's, dress to the 9's, work out, have great make-up and hair styles and they get respect in their careers.
Loved how you examined Joan especially when you brought up how similar Joan and Don are almost like siblings. Likening Joan to Venus made me think that Don could be the Apollo of Mad Men. Both Apollo and Venus are sort of the golden boy and girl of the Greek Gods. Apollo is the god of the light, medicine, and knowledge which I think fits Don whose insight and creativity (knowledge) heals the company (medicine) or at least is able to put on the right track so he outshines (light) the other characters. Apollo was also very promiscuous like his father Zeus (who I would find similar to Roger Sterling). Moreover, Apollo and Aphrodite never get together in the myths just like Joan and Don. In the end Joan is still a Venus but gains attributes similar to the virgin goddesses Athena, a woman on top of her game, and Artemis, twin sister to Apollo himself. Looking forward to more Mad Men! Also can we expect more Game of Thrones?
And just like this liberal propaganda, you are comparing this show to anti Christian theology. Greek mythology explains the ungodliness of the Greek golden years and like all great societies, explains why the Greek empire declined. All great empires or countrys as they are now recognized, decline due to decadence and ungodliness.
Club Simtopia lmao....its a fucking story.....chill...
Club Simtopia this is hilarious given the decline of the Romans after they adopted Christianity
well said
For the record, if we're going down this rabbit hole, Don Draper is specifically compared to Julian II, the last pagan Roman Emperor who tried to restore the old values of the pre-Christian empire to stave off decadence in "My Old Kentucky Home" which features lots of quotes from Edward Gibbon's "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire."
I'm PMSing but this made me want to cry I always loved Joan except when she was mean to Peggy in the beginning
She was doing her a kindness. Peggy was using a different strategy to win( a 'good straight-laced marriageable girl'), she was disabusing her of any naivety or unconsciousness that was any less as a strategy as the one she was using.
vickie g personally, I think Peggy needed that energy and sass that Joan had ;)
But you have to admit that Peggy's earnestness and straight-forward manner is pretty refreshing?
Irony being that when Joan said "we don't have to answer to anyone": Peggy had to learn not to answer to anyone so that offer didn't jibe with her while Joan had the ability to not answer to anyone but repressed it (RE: "Hollow Way" and "Joan of Arc")
vickie g yes and Peggy stood up for her
Joan's character is still so relevant today.....how peopoe objectify women still. How people don't take a sexy woman seriously etc. How people blame women for getting them distracted when in reality they're the ones not focusing during class/at work.
Modern Savage25 what a load of shit
Women were the first information management systems in companies in the western world. They had their own filing systems, they self-organized in the typing pools , mail rooms, the switch boards, etc. They were the central nervous system for the Mad Men universe. The smart men recognized this and made friends with the women who literally ran the company. Most men on Mad Men were not smart. Joan was a professional, polite and very smart about the world. I laughed very hard when I noticed how much she knew about company cash flow and how it gets disbursed to departments and how it jived with customer deliverables. A woman's body makes her pretty, her soul makes her beautiful. Joan's loyalty was worth more that all the gold in the world. You earned that by treating her as a fellow human being on the same team. The Jaguar dealership goon should have had an accident prior to him legally raping Joan. Being they were in NYC the accident would be cheap and people were indifferent to stuff like that back then. I fault the drunks at SCDP for not causing that accident.
@Modern Savage25 username checks out
boganus699 Both of the examples you named are based on mysoginistic/sexist principles, if a man doesn’t take a sexy woman seriously then he sees her as just an object, if a woman sees a man as a bank (which is VERY wrong too) it comes from the idea that has been implanted that women can’t be independent or the idea that it isn’t he norm.
@boganus699 if the womans attractiveness is the priority then hes not taking her seriously as a whole person. the problem isnt not addressing her attractiveness the problem is *only* addressing her attractiveness... does that make sense?
I had a friend that worked in advertising during the 60's (in the art dept) and I heard a lot of stories about what it was like. When Mad Men came out decades later, it essentially mirrored my friend's life. It was an accurate depiction of how ad agencies/businesses operated as well as a look at American society in the 1960's. The one difference was that my friend spoke about was far more drug use than the show indicated. His drug dealer was his art director (boss). If he was feeling "down", his boss provided uppers. If he was "up", he received downers. He was pretty well medicated at work in those days. He passed away suddenly in the mid-90's, so when Mad Men was aired, it brought lots of fond memories of my friend.
I loved Joan... sassy, witty, curvy, and confident.
her waistline is huge, she wears a corset
Virces So what?
And so smart!
"I want love" says Joan is my favorite line from Mad Men. It is a simple line but it says a lot.
I find it tragic that she was never able to find that with any man despite being the most beautiful character on the show. Her character was around 38 by the end of the show, which is fairly young by todays standards, but was practically geriatric in 1970. I just pictured her trying to get her own business off the ground, constantly struggling with sexism, and being a burnt out single mother. I also imagine she put a lot of money into her new business, and may have even lost it. The only female characters who appear to have a happy ending are Pegs and Trudy.
This is spot on. That rape scene still gets to me.
now to go see your filmz ~
It's chilling!
iinmediasres How was that chilling? Have you seen that movie where the guy's head is graphically caved in and the girl is raped? Forget what it's called but that makes mad men look like a joke.
Cykablyat are you talking about Super? I left that movie scarred.
JoAnn Pho No there's a movie called irreversible where a group of people are partying, a woman leaves the party to go home but is raped on the way home and graphically beaten like straight wailing on her. Then, out for revenge her BF I think or uncle idk go looking for a guy and end up in a weird gay club. The girls friend gets beat up in the club and is about to be raped guy on guy when another person again I forget if the bf comes over and graphically caves in the would be rapists head where he stood. But not like a crack. But like beats him to brain damage, to death and then until his head is mush. I only watched it because I heard it was very realistic in the violence and yep it checks out and you probably shouldn't watch it, you've been warned.
Joan has the most interesting story arc of all the characters in my opinion. Her conflicts and the different reactions to them make her very human.
all the characters from mad men are very human actually
Agreed 💯
YAS! Joan is such an amazing and fascinating character. *Please* do all the main Mad Men characters.
I'd pay good money for a Roger, Betty, Pete, or Peggy. I feel like Peggy's the next most likely. Or Pete. Or both, if we're sticking to the yin-yang model of characterization established by Don/Joan.
That said, here's my unexpected bid: I'd like to see a Sally/Bobby one.
I SO wanted Peggy to join Joan’s business venture at the end, not stay with the bad ad agency. They would have been a formidable team
She and Stan probably did later.
Right
I think we all did, which is why the ending we got was so much better. It would have been cliche for them to go into business together
I related so strongly to Joan’s negative experiences with her physicality, and her intelligence being ignored. I admired her perseverance and tenacity throughout the show. Plus, I love Christina Hendricks. Such a naturally beautiful and wonderful actress.
Joan represents the death of the femme fatale. Not at as a literal death, but a change of utilizing power. She has an innate strength that is manifested by the changes around her. Joan is definitely the alpha mare of the herd at Sterling Cooper and she earns her crown by the end of the show through mere cunning. She is admired by audiences because she lives through horrible shit thrown at her every episode basically through shear force of will. Things happen to her that would have killed Betty. Joan is quite admirable, but her quicksilver quality that matches Don's (and which he notices that she is better at) comes through as moral ambiguity (which also counterpoints Don as well as Roger). The best example of this is when near the end of the series at SCDP, she shows disloyalty to Don: "he's costing me money!" Or at the beginning when she is playing mean girl to Peggy. Or when she surprises the audience: "I root for the underdog." While Joan is a strong female character, she certainly isn't a "good guy." Pardon the gendered language.
"earns her crown by mere cunning" . . .? ? ? Really?
She earned her crown by prostituting herself out for Jaguar. Joan was a very good office manager and queen of the secretaries. She's a bitch to nice people and her whole life she wanted to marry a doctor and be a housewife. She's had multiple abortions. A failed marriage and Martyr of a mother and a is ok with having affairs with married men potentially ruining families. She doesn't care who she fucks or even marries as long as it benefits her. If Joan Holloway was a man everyone would call her the piece of shit she is life Don or Roger or Pete.
Joan's partnership fell in her lap due to a horny obese car salesman and even Don wasn't willing to work with the man. Joan is as terrible a person as anyone on the show and is forgiven because "girl power".
This is better than I could have ever worded it, thanks so much!
@boganus699 why are you mad at it? how does it affect the way you live your life if people want to be respectful of each other as a whole?
@@Ralph_Sandwich because she did what she had to do in the time she lived in. She watched men get to do whatever the fuck they wanted, and still be respected at home and at work. No one is saying she's perfect, or moral. But she is a badass.
@@Ralph_Sandwich and by the way, the people who ruin families are the MEN who cheat on their wives...not the women who sleep with them. Unbelievable to blame Joan for destroying families by sleeping with a married man instead of the MARRIED MAN destroying his own family.
Mad Men is definitely in the top ten shows of all time!
Harrison McKinney in no specific order:
Mad men
Dr who
The sopranos
Breaking bad
The wire
Peaky Blinders
The twilight zone
Game of thrones
Band of brothers
& one of these👇
Twin peaks / friends / lost
But have you seen Fargo?
Number one for me 😀😉
I love Joan! I wish I could be like her. And yes, she is the girl Don. Carnal, confident. And head over heels.
Peggy is the girl Don
well maybe a lil slimmer
marilize it peggy is also very close to don, but is way more focused on work and less in seduction
Allison Marie great comment
What's frustrating is that Joan feels as if she can't take a few days off for her husband for fear of losing her job (despite being one of the few who actually hold that office up) while Don literally disappears for a month, continually walks out of meetings when they bore him, naps in his office, and clears his schedule so he can meet a girl; Roger likewise disappears constantly to drink the day away; and Cooper barely does anything. She would have never been fired as not only is she highly respected by Don but Roger is wrapped around her finger and the firm itself would have spiraled down over the mundane, repetitive things that the men never think about such as secretaries and even payroll - Lane even flat out says that the office is barely holding it together without her: it would have survived two days without her. Don also explicitly states that she scares the shit out of him and she was the only one he was warned about crossing when he first started.
This leads me to believe that: 1) she really did think she was going to lose her job if she simply didn't go in because she hadn't yet realized her true value to the company; 2) subconsciously, she was already over her marriage and fell back on a solid excuse; or 3) a mix of both. Out of every partner she could have gone to for "permission" to take leave, she chose Lane. He's the accountant (or whatever) but she is a quick problem solver - we've seen that over and over again. If she had gone to Don or especially Roger, they would have said either "of course. i don't care" or "you don't need my permission" but instead, she goes to the one partner who would say no, giving her a logical, conventional reason to excuse herself from spending time with her husband. Like most of the characters on the show, she wants to enjoy her personal life more than work but work is the one thing that _does_ make her happy because it allows her the respect and freedom she knows she wouldn't get anywhere else - a lesson learned when they merge with McCann.
👌🏻 well said
Are you a woman or man? I think most women would agree that she was only worried about her job. I know for myself, I've never taken more than a week off from work out of fear I'll get replaced. Just recently I offered to even take work with me on my week long vacation out of impulse from that fear. I wouldn't have thought it's something women fear but not men; I assume it's the case for both. But especially in those times, it's obvious why Joan and Peggy work far more than any of the men without the same setbacks, lack of opportunity and credit. I don't think Mad Men intended for people to wonder if Joan didn't take the time off for any other reason than being unable to leave without getting replaced, demoted and/or hurting her standing at work. When Joan took maternity leave and saw the hiring ad from SC&P in the paper, she panicked and suddenly believed her mother. She went in just to get to the bottom of it. During the entire series, we never see Joan take any additional time off other than maternity leave. In the final season, she tells the man she's in-love with that she can't just go off with him because of her career. She had to pick between her career and her man; another dilemma career women faced then and still do today. But if you're a guy, I think it's interesting you'd have a hard time accepting her backing down from leaving for her husband's birthday because of work as being legitimate.
@@aliz.5305 I'm a woman. My whole point was that Joan shouldn't have had to feel as if she had to fear for her livelihood at all, especially since she was vital to the company. The fact that she already felt pressured to return after birth is awful but she clearly didn't want to push her luck for Greg, at least imo. Basically, while the guys did whatever they wanted, the women were made to feel like replaceable robots no matter their skills or value.
@@reeseslightning11 I see. I misunderstood your OP.
No it's a fear of losing job. I couldn't get up from bed due to menstrual pain but still went to work coz even today women fear they will be replaced with a man. And if u think that has changed no. Employers still think its better to hire men for certain jobs as they don't have so many issues. I once lost a job coz I told I won't work late night everyday coz I am worried about my safety and u can't guarantee anything. It was right after a brutal gang rape and murder of a poor career woman which was highly publicized in the media. That the person I spoke to was actually a woman. And she rejected me based on that answer. Even today women who don't give much time to peros la life is considered role models every new employee should follow.
WHO WOULD'VE THOUGHT that Joan would have the best ending out of ALL of the other characters in that show?!
It's crazy how much she's changed, evolved and archieved by the last episode, and it actually made sense because of everything she went throught.
Her arc was the only one that actually made sense to me, even though I understood all the other characters' decisions at the end, I didn't really love that season finale to be honest. Joan's ending was gold, though.
It would have been the best ending IF that was what Joan had TRULY wanted for herself. For Peggy to own her own firm, it's the dream ending. Joan wanted love and a happy marriage but couldn't find one where she wouldn't have to trade in her authentic self to keep it. It's always sad when people don't get what they really want in their hearts, even if they've learned to make the best out of the mess like Joan.
She didnt though, he ending is ambiguous, and a little depressing. She wants love, but keeps picking the wrong men. She is starting a business alone, and who knows if she made it work? Did she lose all her money trying? It ends with what we always know to be true about her: shes a risk taker.
Don preys on women who are young and naive. Joan is none of these.
FemBot THIS
Hmmmm...he fell in love with women more Joan's age. I agree with the other "The Take" video--Don tended to really fall for sad, lonely brunettes who had been around the block a few times, and usually in their 30s. He did marry a brunette who was young and naive, but like with Betty, that relationship foundered and sank pretty quickly. Don, in the love department, always found it difficult to hitch up long term with the women he was most emotionally compatible with--the sad, lonely, mature brunettes.
Joan wasn’t that old. She was in her very early 30s in first few seasons.
@@lifeisgolden41 lol that was considered past the expiration date in the 50s-60s
Don Draper never preyed on anyone. The women he bedded WANTED to be bedded by him. I’m sick of this narrative of men as predators. In this era- women had only just been given the birth control pill. Suddenly, they could enjoy their sexuality, and use it to their advantage, without the specter of unwanted and shameful pregnancy. All thru the show you see women, fully confident in their sexual appeal, throw themselves at men who had the trappings of success and ambition. This is what life was like in big cities for successful men. Women hoping to land a successful husband and hand them the suburban dream life they had been raised to covet.
Don Draper is an ultimately pathetic figure. He can not find happiness with any one woman, because other beautiful women keep letting him know he could have them if he wanted. He is obsessed with success...with winning over a client... winning over a rival... and sees bedding beautiful women as another form of winning.
Unlike many of the men in the show, Don actually LIKES women. He enjoys their company in a way that only makes them want him more. But that rush of winning her over fades when it becomes a regular thing and his own internal hollowness begins to haunt him.
Never watched the show but her compassion for Marilyn is so amazing
What you're waiting for? 😉😀
Mad Men was a true Feminist masterpiece.
What´s wrong with being a slut?
There is always at least one on these types of vids
Only a masterpiece for brainwashed ungodly libtards
Jennifer Mosqueda doesn't change the fact that it is propaganda for anti family values and anti conservative values....
"You're a very beautiful girl," Don responds. "It's up to you to be more than that."
This excellent show's been off the air for years but every time a Joan clip finds its way into my recommended feed, I stop and watch. Her finesse, diplomacy, and quiet ambition mixed with deft leadership has never gone out of style.
I always love Joan's scenes not because of her beauty but her calmness and wise move. I can't forget that despite everyone panicking about the lawnmower, she knows what to do to prevent further injury.
This video essay is great. I've never thought about this character in this way. More videos about Mad Men!
Awesome character study of Joan- she was one of if not the best character in the show
I already loved Joan's character, but this made me love her so much more and opened my eyes to the degree of her development
I absolutely adored Joan's character arc throughout the series. She just always adapted whenever things disappointed her and I loved where she ended up at the end. Instead of sitting around and getting pissed at how she was pushed out of her agency, she decides to start her own.
We get spin-offs of every Law&Order and CSI, but Peggy or Roger or Joan cant get their own show?!
Handmaids tale stars peggy
Let’s be real, Roger doesn’t live long after the show ends. The man had 2 heart attacks in 1960, and never slowed down his drinking or smoking. He had to have died by the mid 70’s.
C.H.A.D Bravo you’re stupid and wrong
@C.H.A.D Bravo So I guess you never really watched the show or even this video. Or maybe you never got past Joan's rack.
We honestly should’ve got a couple more season during the 70’s and to build up Joan and Peggy’s success
I don't think the "conventional life" is a lie, but I do feel like she is an example of the fact that not everyone can live that life. I like that she continues to promote the married life because it is a good one, and she knows that despite her own experience.
Been scrolling looking for someone with some intelligence-thank you
Joan is the best character in that show.
coffeefrog nope, Don's show. Not even close.
Not even near the top.
Considering i skipped almost all Don scenes in the last 2 seasons... Don's character was shallow and very basic, almost every other character storyline was far more interesting, Don is like a serious Barney Stinson, sure, is charming AF, but once we get to know his "dark secret" there's little left. Once Anna died, the show itself show how Meh he was, a character always praised for being above average, fell into alcoholism, he was totally replaceable in the company and he continued to get lost into fucking everywoman alive. He was presented as the ultimate male fantasy, but in the end he was just a bad husband, a bad father, a bad employee. He had good looks and creativity, but those things coulndt fix all he was lacking. Joan is far more interesting, Peggy or even Peter, who is actually REALLY good at his job, and didnt lack empathy like Don.
exactly
@@alepolait8951 For someone who finds a character to be Meh, you sure write an awful long soliloquy about him.
DD is a 'winner', full of self-loathing, who is not as much of a loser as he thinks he is.
Don is a basketcase and immensely interesting.
Joan, is almost too good to be true. She is super observant, uniquely smart, uber confident, gives great advice. Has a cute face, with a devastating body to boot, and is efficient at seemingly everything.
Except her taste in men. She sucks at choosing men.
If it wasnt for that, she'd be unrealistic.
I love her cynicism. It makes her a cookie full of arsenic.
I think Joan is my favourite character in all series. In a time where feminism encourage all women and men to be the same, she is flaunting her sensuality, rather than trying to deny it. I really love this about her character. She proves that you can be both successful and feminine.
If you notice, all female characters, no matter their attraction level, are always dependent on their appearance. Either they are not being taken seriously for being too attractive, or they are mocked for being unattractive. Peggy doesn't start to really move up, until she improves her appearance, and when she gained weight, she only got assignments that were given to mock her, even if she was more than capable. So it seems, in one way or another, appearance is vital for women when it comes to succes.
And it still is today...
Only when men call the shots.
Oh fun set aside I was in a near fatal car accident September 20, 2007. I had 6 surgeries and many months in the hospital. This show kept me going.
I want to note with Peggy's 1st Season weight gain: Joan promises and delivers the image of sex but Peggy provides a realistic image of where sex can lead you.
Jessica Victoria Carrillo She was pregnant lol
Yep. My academic-y way of saying so LOL
Sex without condoms
Unsurewhattodo Yeah
Yeah fat and pregnant.
I think the writers did a good job of bringing her full circle with how she treated Kinsey’s Black girlfriend with how she did right by Dawn in the end by making her office manager
Your work is exemplary. You've taken all the thoughts I've had about the Joan character and put them into a very focused and accurate thesis. Thank you.
But that doesn't make them correct or positive unless you are an ungodly person with no moral compass.
@@clubsimtopia1224 lmao moral compass is not ever black and white...
I am so here for Mad Men essays! Loved this. Joan has consistently been my favorite Mad Men character. Great job!
such a well written character, masterpiece
I also think Joan was very inspired by Peggy and peggy’s success. Almost like “if she can do that so can I and I’ll go further”. Almost to prove a point.
I think Peggy showed there were other ways for a woman to survive and succeed in a male-dominated world. Until she came along, the most powerful position Joan could picture a woman in was being the head of secretaries, bossing around other women and telling them how to keep their male bosses happy. Peggy also remained unmarried while Joan's illusion about marriage was shattered. Peggy provided a whole new outlook, which was difficult for Joan to accept (because it meant everything she has always learned before and worked towards was not true), and that's why she's often treated her so badly, especially in the beginning. But in the end we see how much she actually respects Peggy and adopts part of her work-centric approach to fulfillment.
@@cristieby Exactly. Like Betty, Joan was raised to be admired, get a husband, and move to the suburbs if you play your cards right. When Bettys illusion was shattered in S2, it changed her as well. She realized her looks would only get her so far, and only hold a mans attention for so long. I think that's why we get fat Betty in S5; she let herself go because she knew Henry loved her for her, and not her appearance. She also knew her appearance didn't matter nearly as much as she thought it did. But then seeing Dons skinny and younger wife Megan, she becomes preoccupied with losing the weight. That said though, the thyroid issue could have played a part in it as well.
Mad Men was such a good show. I actually had to stop watching because it made me so angry 😂. The way women were treated is almost unreal.
giorgiamax90 Get into any field where men are a majority and you'll have similar treatment today. Sadly. I also thought that these days are way behind us. But women still get comments such as some in the show. Wish I would have a better respondse to them other than excusse mee?? It's just because you get so surprise by it..
ruza split luckily, I'm in a female dominated field (nursing), but I have had jobs before this one where I was put into similar situations. I'm glad more women are speaking up now.
Imagine being brown 🤦🏽♀️
Jay R It is not perfect today, but if women today speak up and persevere, we can build a better world for women all shapes, colors and sizes. Hope never ends.
I was born in the 80's and have seen and experienced similar experiences, but Mad Men portrays an even worse era in comparison.
It is good for the new generation to see that things may not be perfect yet, but that they have improved a lot!
When we become more aware of things we stop complaining and we start to thank cause it could be a lot worse and it used to be much much worse
Joan is hands down my favorite character
I knew the reason Don was so against Joan sleeping with the jaguar exec was because it invalidated his win but most people thought Don really care BS Dons done way worse for business. I love Joan
orp flo I think that was a major reason he ruined the job
I respectfully disagree. The writers wouldn’t have use the line from Don “it’s not worth it”. He was thinking how much he disrespected the woman he slept with, and was trying to keep her from being that.
@@truthof7382 exactly. This 100%
@@saidmrabet4474 I think he genuinely didn't know that she already did it with the guy. That's why they shot it that way. He raced over to her apartment to catch her before she left. If he knew she already did it, why would he be in a hurry to get to her?
pcrana1 But she should've known that it was because of Don's initiative to save Sterling-Cooper from PPL that SHE KEPT HER JOB AND BECAME WHO SHE IS. Can't believe that Roger, Pete and even Harry Crane (and Cooper to some extent) were more willing to support Don and her siding with Cutler just because he named her Account Executive and she took the opportunity when sleeping with the Jaguar guy. She's not a little girl... and she's not a saint either.
I stood by her until then and that doesn't mean Don is the greatest example. It was about loyalty and Jaguar wanted to be pompous so good riddance!
Best show since the Sopranos. Love that it's a character-driven instead of a plot-driven show. Rewatches are so fun. Joan is like the complete opposite of Aide, yet both so compelling
Mad Men is easily one of the best tv dramas ever
My favorite character. Intelligent, powerful but fragile at the same time, she can be so relatable. Amazing character!!!
I love love love love Joan! Her arch is incredible. Also, I love to see someone like Joan next to someone like Peggy. The way they are both navigating the business world in a completely different manner is really amazing to watch and compare all the ups and donwhills.
Joan is my favorite character because I can relate a lot. She’s a working mom who lives with her mom and she’s straight up and independent. And that’s me I also would love to have that body type she has
“It’s hard for people to understand that but the man has a very big ego” Gotta love real writers ❤️
I know that Joan’s mother nailed her part but Jesus was she a grating character...
Agreed!
Joan is one of my favorite characters on Mad Men. I've been binge watching Mad Men again for the 5th or 6th time so that's how I ended up here. Mad Men is one of my all time favorite shows.
I loved Joan's development and watching the compare & contrast between her and Peggy. They both achieved in different ways, but grew so much and became such strong characters. I wasn't sure about Joan in the beginning, but she definitely grew on me. I was quite happy with her ending, there didn't seem to be anyone good enough for her. She knew a lot and I feel like people often underestimated her and were too distracted by her appearance, but in a way it kind of made her stronger, like her secret weapon was her mind.
Ah! I'm so happy! Finally a video essay on Mad Men :')
I had an HS English teacher who said to always pay attention to the names of characters and places in a work of fiction. The author/creator could have chosen *any* names so they are usually significant.
She then *brilliantly* undercut this by showing that sometimes those meanings *only* exist for the author. She asked is to try to figure out why the protagonist family in To Kill a Mockingbird is named Finch. This was pre-internet in the early '90s so the next day one by one we all stood up and spun theories about Atticus' or Scouts alleged birdlike qualities or some kind of connection to the name of the book.
After about 15 minutes of this, she revealed the true reason: Finch was the maiden name of Harper Lee's mother. It was a tribute, but one that *only* Harper Lee would have understood. And now that we have Wikipedia, it says that the maiden name of Harper Lee's mother was indeed Finch. So character and place names in a work of fiction often mean something, but you shouldn't always read *too* much into them and try to analyze them.
Joan and Sally were my favorite characters.
Joan mesmerized me: she was obviously stunning but Christina Hendricks played her with such subtlety and soft intensity. She seemed at times the strongest and most sensitive character...and every time she appeared on scene everything seemed to slow down around her.
Sally was similarly compelling. Whereas with Joan, time slowed as if she were the object of attention, when Sally appeared the camera always zeroed in on her eyes and her reactions to what went on around her.
I concluded somewhere around the second season that the central narrative of Mad Men (Don’s) was told as if from Sally’s perspective: it was the recollection of a daughter born in the Baby Boom telling the story of her Silent Generation father. And as the series ends with her mother dying of cancer it reinforced for me the belief that the story of Dan and Betty Draper is the story of her relationship with her now dead “perfect 60s housewife mother” and her beloved but flawed “remote 60s businessman father.”
I forget the literary theory language used to describe what I mean. It’s something like “emotional perspective.”
It just seems more poignant and powerful to me, certainly more nostalgic, when these events are recalled from a distance, specifically, through the adult recollections of a child who grew up through them.
What do you all think?
That was beautiful ❤️
I like your idea. Having it be Sally's reflection of her parents actually makes a lot of sense, at least for the Don and Betty part of the story.
I've been rewatching Mad Men and wishing you would do videos on the series. Great timing.
Man, you SOLD me on this show. For whatever reason, I could not get into the show years ago but your dissection / analysis of this show is so impressive I'll have to binge watch it.
Didn't Peggy gain weight because she was pregnant? Or am I misremembering?
That's correct
Yea, but I think because we don't find out that she was pregnant till after the fact it can be read as gaining weight to avoid the male gaze
Yeah, she was but I reckon the whole unsexing herself is still kinda true as she never really feels upset or desperate to lose the weight or become what Joan had suggested.
She gain weight bc she was pregnant. They made her look awful. Whomever done the makeup of her looks while she was pregnant, didn't do her justice. And, the way they made Betty Draper look when she gained weight. I'm sure both Peggy and Betty hated to look fat. No one looks that's bad in the face when they gain weight. Betty, January Jones is a beautiful woman. She is much better looking that Joan Holloway. Give me Betty, anyday. Even Peggy. Peggy cute as hell. She has a nice little figure. To be honest: Joan is too much. Too big. Give me petite anyday.
Yes, but one of the reasons she didn't notice was because she was putting on weight at the same time.
I really love this character breakdown/analysis. It has depth, and is very much on point.
Well done Screen Prism!
Joan was a truly exceptional woman, I always hoped she’d find someone as smart and mature as she was.
Man, that's one hell of a show, I need to rewatch it... And this was great stuff, excellent essay on an excellent character, kudos!
I love Joan's character she is intelligent, in control, beautiful, and confident no one runs circles around those qualities. Whatever decision she makes she has no regrets from others' opinions and suggestions.!!!!!!!
Joan proves that in the business world it doesnt matter how intelligent a women is to play the game you still have to use what you got to get what you want.
Mad Men is my favorite tv show! Do more character studies like this pls!
great video essay
Can I just say, this is such a quality channel! All the videos I've seen so far, including this one, have been so thorough and insightful and well-structured. Really great work!
It just struck me how Joan's story is similar to Betty's. Both unusually attractive women who landed 'good husbands' but found themselves unhappy in their married life and divorce.
Wow so glad you talked about Don and Joan's relationship!
Christina Hendricks is indeed a real-life Venus, she's the sole reason I watched Mad Men :)
Fascinating analyses of the characters. These videos are terrific. One thing I think may not be historically accurate about "Mad Men" is when the characters hear something they don't like and they ask, "Excuse me?" I grew up in the 1960's and 70's and I didn't hear "Excuse me" used as a question. I think it would have been more accurate to say "I BEG your pardon" or "What did you just SAY to me?" That's what I heard.
PLEASE, PLEASE DO BETTY. She is a very layered character. From her frustration of being a house wife, being raised to think her only value is looks, her strained relationship with her strong willed daughter and then her growth towards the end of her life. Pleaseeee do a video on her.
YO I love mad men! It's also hard finding analysis videos on this show too! Let alone character analysis--Keep it up!
Joan is my favorite character in this whole show.
I just want to say, how much i enjoy watching these narratives.They have not only helped me to find interesting new things to watch and be inspired by, but they are personally therapeutic, I am also learning about myself, and my own characteristics when I see these.
You guys consistently make videos I care about. Thanks
This was amazing! I miss the show so much. I’d adore one of these breakdowns for Betty and Peggy.
Amazing character, amazing show
This is one of my favorite CZcams videos! Love this channel!!!!
The fact that so much good content can be made about the show demonstrates the quality of the series
You have the best film analysis I’ve seen on CZcams by far and your voice is pleasing to hear unlike others (emergency awesome.)
Oi! Leave Charlie alone!
3:37 the baby they have together was actually concieved by roger.
roger- deep breath and a smirk on his face.🤣🤣
I noticed that too.
Absolutely wonderful analysis! My fav personality on Mad Men by far!
i love her, she got brain, beauty and personality, queen of the show.
*I just encounter this channel and I must say that it has THE best scripts I've read of any other channel here in youtube regarding the film, story and character analysis. Holy shit the person or person who writes for the channel are GOOD.*
This makes me want to rewatch the series.
Just finished it the show a second time. Joan is one of my faves!
I always thought Don didn’t go for Joan because he knew how Roger felt about her. That she was ‘Rogers.’
More mad men content please
Yes, more Mad Men character studies please!
Thank you! I really enjoyed this. I hope you all can do character studies for all of the Mad Men central characters, especially Peggy and Roger. There is so much complexity in all of them.
I understood so much of what my grandma and mom used to infer about the past after watching the rape scene aftermath.
Finally some video essays on Mad Men
I want The Take to do this kind of analysis on my life. I desperately need it
These Mad Men character analyses are great! Love this show and love this kind of content. :)
I will never, ever, ever get enough of this character!