I like Chibnall's writing but this series proved that his strength as a showrunner is hiring guest writers. This episode was absolutely brilliant in every way.
His strength as a show-runner is letting other people write Bear in mind the strongest episodes of most seasons of Moffats era were from guest writers as well, S5: Vincent and The Doctor S6: Doctors Wife S7: Rings of Akhaten S8: Mummy On The Orient Express and Flatline
Id be happy if Chibnall gave away all the writing. This is one of the few episodes I enjoyed, but the writing has been the weakest aspect of this season. I wasn't surprised when I realised that the best eps were not solely written by him.
Fyi: Next video's Blunt Xmas TV Guide then end of year update vid then I'll be away for a little bit. I'll finish season 11 in the new year (you knew I'd probably have to do that, admit it :p)
I fucking love this episode. Despite how heavy it is I could honestly rewatch it a million times, and the visual direction of this episode is damn *gorgeous.* There’s one episode after this one that I like even more, but the more I watch this one the more and more it becomes an all time favorite.
I agree, it feels incredibly real and often times uncomfortable to watch but I still think it's the best episode of the season. The Thijarians having a minimal but still meaningful role in the plot was the best way to go about it, they're in it just the right amount and they don't take any attention away from the overall story. Their design is incredibly unique, the best I've seen in recent years, and the fact that the two don't look exactly alike in terms of their faces and garments adds an extra layer to them. I'd actually really like to see them return, maybe earlier in their timeline when they were still assassins?
Another great review, although in a way I sort of feel like this episode can be viewed as a pure historical since the "monsters" are only really there to observe and pay respect, just like us the viewer. Really hope Vinay Patel comes back next season
A pure historical is an episode which doesn’t have sci fi elements apart from the Doctor,companions and the TARDIS. It doesn’t matter how much or how little the aliens were in it, they were still in it.
Isobel Lunn but it *is* the fact they were in it which doesn’t make this a pure historical, You can’t argue that point no matter what they did or didn’t do The Awakening isn’t a pure historical because the Malus is hardly in it and doesn’t do much
As some one who’s finished series 11 I realised that Chibnall really really just Should not be show runner because In my opinion all the best episodes of series 11 where written by people other than Chibnall, and I did really appreciate this episode
The historical episodes have been really good this year... just not the fun kind that I'd like to rewatch when I'm bored and tired after a day of work. Hell, I still pop in Heaven Sent now and again, which is a depressing episode in itself which aired at a time when I was severely depressed already. Perhaps because it's a story that helps process my emotions at the time, as opposed to these which put up a very depressing reflection of the awful things that people have done and The Doctor being unable to interfere. But unlike episodes like The Aztecs where you've got subplots where The Doctor gets engaged by accident and Ian develops a rivalry with their general, the "Fun" element is lost a bit through most of the story and we're mostly left with that same feeling made by the ending. That being said, I do really enjoy both episodes and it's probably added to why my favourite 13 moment so far is in the Witchfinders where she tries to save the old woman. Despite her instincts not to get involved, she had to sit by whilst Rosa was arrested and Prem was shot and she just decided "No More" and dives in, head-first to the rescue!
Thats kinda easy when the woman aint a known historical figure with an entire life path recorded for history instead of someone random who might have survived anyway cause she did it
That scene did stick out to me too. The fact that she went against her better judgement does give more character that she’s been lacking for the most part.
Having completed the entirety of series 11, I still concede (as I did at the time of watching it) that Demons of the Punjaab was the best episode in it. Some might argue for Rosa, but the historical inaccuracies, terrible villain and inappropriate use of that terrible 'rise up' song really brought the episode down for me. Here, however, we just have a genuinely well-done episode: the opening framing device isn't just abandoned but actually built upon with Yaz talking to her grandmother at the end of the episode. It feels like there is actual conflict between some of the characters and, rather than some exaggerated and actually pointless 'space racist' villain, the episode cuts the shit and tells it as is. There isn't any need for a villain and I was so glad that they had 'Demons' (both the aliens and what they truly were) equally tie into the thematic and emotional core of the episode with the harsh reality of the event as well as remembering the partition. Funnily enough, the episode fell on Remembrance Sunday which I thought was a brilliant meta move on behalf of the showrunners whether done consciously or not. While war is a serious and important event, I think we become a little ignorant tend to forget remembering other things around us so to have that was another great addition. It's been many years since I'd felt actual emotions for a Doctor Who episode, but Demons of the Punjaab actually almost made me tear up a little. The quiet, solemn ending where the Demons cover up the tragedy about to unfold making it even more tragic and heartbreaking, the performances, - it all just fucking works for the most part and I love it. Most of series 11 is pretty bad in almost every aspect (more on that other times I suppose), but this one episode is probably the only great highlight to pick out. It could've been a little better in some areas, possibly kicking down some of the exposition (a consistent problem throughout the entire series) and maybe a little better direction in terms of performances, but overall just a solid and well-thought out episode which achieves its purpose. Good job, Vinay Patel!
Im really surprised you didnt see how the aliens were kind the same thing that Moffat did in Capaldis goodbye episode. But yeah, i agree on whats the problem on doing pure historicals? A DW novel writer said on Twitter that "Its to hold the attention of the kiddies". Then again, theres a reason the show stopped doing them in the first place. My only problem with it is the same as Rosa: this is DW at the end of the day and the emotion is there cause it occurred not cause the script built it from scratch (its like doing Joan of Arc knowing shes gonna end up on a fire just to get an emotional response from the audience) Is it too dark to say that my companion would be a Holocaust survivor...?
I suppose that would be really dark but it's not like a companion like that couldn't work but it would be really difficult to not cause offence or do justice to the event and real people who went through that time. Also yeah I agree - while DOTP is my favourite episode of series 11 (which isn't really saying much) the aliens and sometimes stilted acting really did hold this episode back.
Hey, for what it's worth, one of my companions was going to be a 12 year old who is suffering from leukaemia, and the Doctor wanted to take him around the universe to see how much wonders there are, and he can treasure it before he dies. And then, once the companion dies, The Doctor just wonders what was the point of showing a child around the universe, when the child was going to pass away shortly. Yeah, this is one of many messed up ideas that I used to have in my Doctor Who fan-fiction.
@@englishgiraffe2124 I do like that idea actually - maybe quite dark especially with a child but could be very poignant especially with the doctor giving someone the experience of a lifetime when they have such little time less and maybe helping that person come to terms with what is going to happen to them.
@@TheJaviferrol That is definitely a way to make the Daleks scary and make the Nazi analogy very literal but done right that could be a really effective way to bring that topic to life in the doctor who universe (although Doctor Who might have covered the holocaust at one point and I just haven't seen that story yet).
@@englishgiraffe2124 - I noticed that Doctor Who does seem a bit averse to having child companions, which is too bad as it is a bit limiting. My ex was extremely conflicted watching Eleventh Hour with me, because they were so hyped for young Amelia being the new traveling companion. They were furious that the episode fast-forwarded her character, and that was a cloud that loomed over their appreciation of all of the Amy Pond stories.
The aliens looked very Faction Paradox but shame the “stuff happens at the moment of death” has been done lots of time in the Moffat era & “last of my race & planet was destroyed” is also overused
Hooray, a fellow fan who knows about the Faction Paradox! Would be nice if Doctor Who actually references the EDA'S, but considering NewWho (specifically Moffat) has ripped off the idea of Faction Paradox and never really acknowledges it's legacy, I'll be surprised if it actually does
English Giraffe Moffat ripped off SO MUCH from the books, and yes while I’ve hardly read any there’s so much stuff which happens in the books and Moffat does, which makes his era even weaker
@@iain9757 Well, as someone who has read the EDA books about 10 times (seriously, some of the best Doctor Who media, bar none), I can almost definitely confirm that Moffat ripped off the EDA'S, and yet at the same time, didn't rip enough off, as evidenced by his plot holes and unanswered questions in Series 6. Name of the Doctor is almost one-to-one Alien Bodies, with it talking about the Doctor's future grave, an old acquaintance trying to change a timeline to their benefit, and the perfect companion being created to help the Doctor.
English Giraffe I might not have read them but yes I do know all the comparisons and while yes I’m sure there’s many I don’t know as they’ve not been talked about online a lot but now I’m breaking out into the ...”books which include the EU” such as AHistory (Can’t wait for V4 p2 this week)
@@englishgiraffe2124 Not read them yet myself but would like to. However I know the show has to be careful as it can't have stuff in the show that would require people to buy extra material to understand it
And here we have again a pinnacle of why I fucking love this channel. Never mind a review; this is a bloody monograph and a damn marvellous one at that too...! Never change Stu. NEVER.
The guest writers have definitely been better than Chibnall, I liked S11 but Doctor Who hasn't quite been the same for me since Russel left. Maybe that's because how I was first introduced to the show, even Jodey, who I enjoy doesn't feel quite like The Doctor yet, and no it's not because she's a woman. She just hasn't had that Doctor moment for me yet.
Same! I always felt that every incarnation of the Doctor needed a sense of gravitas to their performance, the sense of "I am hundreds if not thousands of years old and I've seen some s h i t". Not something overly dramatic or tediously played out like Russel or Moffat did, but a nice little speech here and there like the BF writers usually do. I love Jodie as an actress, but I feel like shes really missing that. The worst thing is that it's not that hard for the writers to do that. All it takes is one little speech.
@@wigglyziggly People are saying the speech to King James is her Doctor moment, and while it was good, it just wasn't that moment for me, if you know what I mean. I feel she's been let down by the writing.
I get what you mean definitely. For me personally, I had that moment of her with gravitas during Kerblam! when she really lays down the law with the higher ups. Actually, I just overall really loved Kerblam! It does have to be said though that I didn't enjoy Matt Smith at all in his first series and only warmed to him at the beginning of series 6. He's now up there as in my Top 5 Doctors, so I wouldn't worry about it (not that you were).
@@Herosmurf I'm not sure how about Matt Smith, I think he's a good actor and like you, I did warm to him, I just felt he got let down by some bad episodes and convoluted story arcs. I liked Kerblam, needed more Lee Walsh though
I think it's the writing and the fact that there are so many companions she doesn't get as much time per episode as previous doctors. I do think her speech in It Takes You Away did it for me though.
I really enjoyed this episode and feel pretty guilty about it now. Thanks Stuart 👍 *GRR I'M SO ANGRY FOR BEING MADE TO THINK ABOUT A PIECE OF MEDIA I LIKED*
Critics have complained for years. “Oh, it’s the Daleks again, Oh, it’s the Cybermen again, etc...” When we see how humans have been monsters - now people are complaining, “Where are the Cybermen? Where are the Daleks?” Chibnall gave us something new and different a lot of people were screaming for and now they want their pillow back. I feel sorry for the Chibnall, the cast and crew. For me the episodes of Rosa and Demons of the Punjab it was deeply compelling. It was also a gut punch to some of the worst bad guys on Doctor Who… I’ll end this with a statement from Gwen Cooper of Torchwood, Children of Earth Day 5: There's one thing I always meant to ask Jack. Back in the old days. I wanted to know about that Doctor of his. The man who appears out of nowhere and saves the world. Except sometimes he doesn't. All those times in history when there was no sign of him, I wanted to know why not. But I don't need to ask any more. I know the answer now. Sometimes the Doctor must look at this planet and turn away in shame.
Good story, it doesn't feel like a Doctor who episode in the conventional sense, more like Vinay Patel's other work - Murdered By My Father. I wish the acting was better though and that it wasn't misleading with the aliens "We will stand over your corpses" gee what a kind way to introduce yourself. I also would have liked to have seen what the Partition of India looked like on a larger scale rather than just this family, the brothers motivation could have been explored further, perhaps that could've been done if it was a two-parter. The music is great though and the emotional moments hit so hard they gloss over most of the flaws.
This was the first episode of the season, apart from the woman who fell to earth, that I enjoyed. I really like the story of this episode. Idk about the Doctor and her companions involvement in the story... I wasn’t convinced that these British people just waltz in on India after the petition claiming to be family - idk didn’t add up for me. But Yaz’s character arc was great. Too bad Yaz does nothing else in this season
You should have had the title of the video be “DOCTOR WHO S11 NEVER GONNA WATCH IT AGAIN” with lots of sad emojis in the thumbnail or even have it in the thumbnail as like with HMC you’ll get people hate clicking because you’re already perceived as negative
The reason pure historicals died out because the gunfighters was really shit and 99.9% percent of people working on doctor who thought alternative history would be more interesting to focus on instead.
If having no Storm Trooper aiming is what automatically makes a good Doctor Who story, no wonder Demons of the Punjab is fantastic for it's tragic death of Prem Barsar.
Don't worry, I know exactly what you mean. I'm the same with Pan's Labyrinth. It's a beautiful film but it's as harsh as Schindler's List and it features scary monsters. I do not want to watch it again!
I'm glad you thought this episode good...I wish I had thought that way too. I really wanted to like this one and while I found the episodes setting brave and interesting, the ending kind of spoilt it for me. ...so there's Yas, turning up for her Grandmother's wedding - she doesn't disguise herself in any way and even tells everyone her real name. She looks exactly the same as she does in her actual present...so why then does the Grandmother not remember Yas being at her wedding? The ending should be her looking at Yas oddly and suddenly remembering that someone called Yas, who looked oddly like Yas does now - and brought a strange band of people with her ...oh, and there were aliens too ...were all there on her blinking wedding day!!! I just don't get why the Grandmother didn't have more of a reaction to Yas and co effectively altering time a little. The Doctor should have told Yas that she couldn't be seen as her Grandmother would recognise her when they travelled back to their present - but she doesn't mention this, no one mentions the dangers of Yas being seen and then the Grandmother just doesn't mention it at the end. Weird. I remember when this kind of tampering with time actually had consequences.
At the start of the episode, Yaz's grandmother makes it clear that she won't tell Yaz the full story about her past until she's "older". I took that to mean that Yaz was always a part of those events, and her grandmother had at some point realized it was her at the wedding. She refused to tell Yaz what happened because she remembered that, at the wedding, Yaz didn't know what happened. At the end, when she asks Yaz if she wants to talk about it, she's realized that Yaz has now lived through those events, so it's safe to discuss them:- and Yaz says no, because of course, she was there, so there's no need to hear the story. Yaz's grandmother remembers - and has always remembered - everything that happened, but at the start of the episode she can't talk about it, and at the end, there's no need to. The timeline was never altered.
@@Alfwin That's definitely a well thought-out and well-constructed opinion and could very well be what the writer intended - or you could just be doing a better job than the writer and finding an explanation to fit an otherwise large plot hole. Either way, it just strikes me as odd that Yaz's (my apologies for incorrectly spelling her name before) Grandmother doesn't question Yaz about her being there or give even a subtle nod to suggest that she remembered her being there. If I was Yaz's Grandmother I'd be super interested in how it was my Granddaughter appeared at my wedding before she was even born. I don't know. It just doesn't make sense to me. But there you go - that's just my thoughts :)
I tend to like the action episodes of Who. I like Daleks and Cybermen and ray guns and UNIT shooting at things. I am a bit frivolous in that way. There hasn't really been any action episodes in S11. But I did enjoy this episode. The supporting cast sold it. I felt Graham was excellent in this one. His humanity really shined.
This was the best episode of series 11 by far. This had far more depth and a rather layered emotional tone over Rosa in my opinion. The science fiction aspect was treated with subtlety, unlike Rosa with the time travelling racist trope. Rosa would have been far greater as a straight forward historical storyline.
Yeah, this episode was heavy. This whole season feels like it is either frivolous or beat you to death with your own bleeding heart. Where's the whimsical middleground?
My favorite scene in this episode was The Doctor participating in the Henna ceremony. I felt the show didn't explore The Doctor's new gender in creative enough ways, but I liked this one. The Doctor gets to participate in an activity meant ONLY for women.
@@tonym2744 i like the klein arc and it is one of the few non 8th doctor stories that i havein my collection. also i didn't know about the tennet thing, that makes at least three different doctors who appear in the klein series.
That was set in, y'know, Colditz castle and not a concentration camp. I'm not 100% sure but I think there was a big difference between how prisoners of war and Holocaust victims were treated in Nazi Germany. The closest comparison would probably be the novel Just War, which I haven't read but is apparently extremely nasty.
Concentration camps and POW camps were different. In general, pows were treated better (although not much) than those in the work camps. They recieved red cross parcels, we're allowed to pray, enjoyed sports etc. It wasn't a holiday camp and the conditions were awful but basic rations were allowed. I think it was a respect thing, especially with the Luftwafe and the RAF. Flying was always considered a gentleman's pursuit. However, this is a British POV, the way the Russian pows were treated was rank. I'd like to see the Doctor in the Great Escape, though. Maybe he could use the sonic to make Steve McQueen clear the second fence!
Also if you read up on the first season of doctor who there was a Terry Nation Script called the Red Fort about the even more rough event in the British empire the Indian Mutiny
I thought this story was great. A very educatonal story about a historical event I knew little about and a very personal character story for Yaz and a villain that fitted perfectly into Rememberance day. I made a review on my channel if anyone wants to check it out.
As a Brit who has some understanding of the event and why it happened, I thought this episode was a biased outrage. Stu has given this far too easy a ride, we need to ask, historical stories, ok fine, but if history cannot be shown in balance it becomes propaganda. Which gives this episode a nasty aftertaste
@@Jay-vb9ff it's a weird episode in that it feels like the sort of propaganda that's pushed by hegemonic groups in India. It very oddly glosses over the *violent* history of colonialism (the way the war is represented and the way Prem talks about the British, for instance) but blames the British for partition when it was really because of Indian and Pakistani elites who pushed for partition because it meant they could acquire more power in the post-colonies. It just seems to give a pass to Indian elites/upper castes AND the British while trying to hold both accountable. Also it just gets very basic stuff wrong which were cringeworthy. Partition happens on August 14th (not 17th)...yk, Pakistan's Independence day, no one calls it "the Punjab"...all of which makes me wonder how much research the writer did (which any good writer should do when doing a historical). Lots of other stuff as well which put me off, but that's more wrt nuance that I don't expect to be seen in a British show.
Probably the second best episode this Series (does this count as spoilers, like I don't think it's a shocker that the next episodes would not be great)
Children of men is a really good movie I don't wnat to see again, at least for the next years. And I own the DVD. About the episode: I think it's strange, that this time period don't seem to be a big thing in britisch history class. I learned about it in my english class in school and I am german. How it effects modern indian politics and social life even was an option as a topic for the final exams.
So how do you rate the series so far compared to Moffat, will you do a round up once you get to the finish of it? As I think it would be interesting to hear your thoughts on the change in style of show compared to the past 7 years especially since like many of us you were sick of Moffat's rott.
welcome back, wonder what happened. thought you had just given up on series 11, but here you are hiding under your desk. i'd really love to hear your thoughts on the rest of the episodes and what you thought overall., but guess i'll have to sit here waiting til new year. have a good (ish) xmas.
I think I understand what you mean. I reminds me of the documentary Shoah which I've had on my DVD shelf for way too long, which I keep telling myself I need to watch, but I can't bring myself to it because I know that it will not be enjoyable in the slightest
Imagine if in the new year special all of the "Fam" died and the doctor ended as a complete and utter mess! I would be excited for season 12 just to see how she handles the change.
I kindof thought this episode was the antithsis of Rosa: It tackled politics without feeling heavy-handed and made it clear there were heros and villains on all sides, with no easy answer to a horrible situation. However, the performances of the supporting actors were utterly terrible, and really dented the emotional weight of this epsiode for me. Rosa's supporting cast were superb
I get that this episode was based on very real and heavy stuff but that doesn't mean it's automatically as heavy as something like The Schindler's List. That kind of emotion has to be earned and while Demons of the Punjab certainly earns some of it, storytelling wise it and The Schindler's List are just on two very different levels. But maybe that's just me. I am American though so I could see how a British person's viewing of this episode would be radically more emotional
Do wish that purple mist thing was explained (like what did it do) and how did the doctor not notice that the holy man had been shot and not zapped by aliens
it was odd for me, having been taught about this in history, to suddenly be like "Oh shit! I know what this is!" and to know that most of the audience won't.
Well, I'm not British and therefore have a different - certainly more detached - point of view regarding this part of history but I really like the setting here. It certainly requires a huge amount of courage, tact and respect to portray dire events of recent history which are still alive in some people's memory. Personally I'm always for tackling events like this, pulling dire parts of history from the pages of school books and alike where they feel distant and safe. As if something like that couldn't happen in our time and whatever peaceful country we have the privileg to live. Borrowing your example of the Holocaust: If handled with extreme tact; if (as stupid and blunt as this might sound) done "right" an episode of Doctor Who (maybe better than any other show) could not only tell a powerful and emotionally rich story but deliver commentary about the aftermath of one of the biggest mass murders in human history and its consequences - which are evident to this day. It is my personal conviction that a society has to face its past in order to grow. As a German I would love to see an episode of the show dealing with the darkest chapter in this country's past.
Out of interest, when do you think it’s the right age to learn about concentration camps because that’s really nightmare inducing... too nightmare inducing for dr who I think. Maybe if they focused on survivors and not openly talk about the camps in detail... but then it’s maybe not doing the subject justice. It’s so hard.
@@bigspongeyfan1 Difficult question. I watch DW from an adult's perspective but I believe children can deal with topics like death and human cruelty. To be honest though the Holocaust is no topic people need a lot of information about (at least in this part of the world). Therefore you can work with implications and indirect story stelling and deliver an engaging, meaningful episode without traumatising the youth. Furthermore: These days every episode has a trailer of its own. Let parents decide if their child is ready to deal with such topics. Every child is different and to say someone is ready to watch something because they have reached age X is absurd. I grew up with stories about death and grief from a very young age and I loved them because they didn't sugar coat me. I still love movies that make me cry because they leave an impact and give me reason to think or re-think about whatever issues it deals with. Why not use pop culture media to introduce children to real life topics in a shilded enviroment? So the real question is: Would it make a difference if they showed a Dalek death camp instead of a concentration camp? Everyone has to answer that one for themselves but if the answer is yes, than I honestly believe we NEED this Holocaust episode to be made. Because the only reason I can see for making a difference between real and fictional cruelty is our own discomfort with the idea that we ourselves could be able to execute it given the right (or rather: wrong) circumstances. And again: media can provide us with a safe opportunity to confront these fears. That said the 3. Reich gives writers enough material beside that. How about the indoctrination of children? Or an episode about someone how spoke up like Dietrich Bonhoeffer or members of the White Rose?
No it’s not I’ve seen this video 3 times This is the second edition Have you not noticed people’s comments which predate the video on most this series ?
Why include aliens 3 times they could have had pure historicals but this terrible crowbarring in of aliens is why it's not very interesting ultimately.
I liked all the things in the episode but felt that putting them all in the same episode didn't really work. There was time to do the historical stuff or the alien stuff, but not really both. Still, not bad. Next time, a good generic episode of Doctor Who.
Coming back here today as I've just heard Chibnall is actually planning a Holocaust story for Series 12. Stubagful's point is very very relevant. Demons worked, Rosa worked IMO but a Holocaust story... a step too far I think. We will see what happens.
See for me, it wasn't that touching. I just didn't buy it, and I think it could have been something great to watch in a full length movie. Not for Doctor Who.
I think its not widely taught because its didnt happen in britain and because there so much history u cant teach it all, also people dont need to own up to a colonial past they were never a part of
Really good? It was the first one I watched of this season and I had to pause it 8 times out of frustration and had to calm down before I could continue watching. One time even took hours. The episodes after this one didn't have that effect. Yeah Witchfinder was irritating too, but God, I hated this one! Still gonna watch the rest of this review of course.
@@optimisticwhovian1726 Right, yeah, because I don't like an episode/season, the entire friggin' show isn't for me. Bravo, you must be a certified psychologist? Just look at the Rottentomatoes reviews; a LOT of people have gotten seriously angry at this season. Are you telling me that NONE of these people should have watched earlier seasons?
Well if youre bitching about a trope being overused clearly you've been watching too much show, you cant have it both ways, youre either enjoying the show or you aren't smart arse, youre a typical nerd who wants to bitch and complain then sulks when he's called out on it, decide which way youre going here, have you got anything positive to say about the show or not? @@MarcelNL
surprised by your review on this one Stu, a major issue is these events truly cannot be captured in one 50 minute who. This should have been two, even three parts, and the problem with this is the lack of full context. It wasn't just one way you know! Nor does it do a credible job of explaining how and why these events happened
My thoughts too. Also, I know Mr Bagful doesn't go down the rabit whole of arguing the PC or social justice type issues, but I can't help thinking from the reactions I've seen elseware to this episode and Rosa that it seems very difficult to please people with this kind of story. On one hand, you get people who can't stand the heavy handedness, getting annoyed and turned off by it. Then the people who are really right on, start kicking off because the show wasn't right on enough. As you say, it's a bad idea to attempt the story in a one off episode, because you inevitably end up sentering more on certain points and totally missing out others.
Honestly it all depends on how the material is handled. I'm not expecting Doctor Who to have an episode equivalent to the 80s movie Threads for example. But at the same time there is something to be said about capturing the brutality in a way where you can get a good idea of what the time period was like and have the characters put in danger in a way that doesn't feel anemic or that its in any way sugar coated like some stories have had to be due to its family audience.
I lost immediate interest in the episode when I realized the aliens weren't the villains and were basically a rip-off of one of Moffat's worst monsters (Hint, Testimony)
Also testimony wasn’t a monster or even a baddie Neither were the ones in this episode Testimony was New Earths going back in time and getting people’s whole life for basically a history book
It was the first episode that I saw of this season and yeah; that was a HUGE turn-off. I still hoped a bit that there would be a plottwist that they had lied and actually stole the souls of those people. Everybody else reacting here seems to absolutely have loved the episode. Personally I really hated everything about it. Okay I'm not British so I have no historical connection to whatever happened there but the acting, really stupid lines sometimes, stupid moments and other details really ENRAGED me watching it. I never felt so frustrated before watching Doctor Who. Later episodes were less bad; Kerblam was inoffensive enough (really no masterpiece though), Witchfinder was irritating and could have been MUCH better if it had a better writer and producer and a bit more budget. The finale which was a stolen storyline I actually enjoyed quite a bit, even if it wasn't devoid of irritating moments. (Skipped the It takes you away one.)
Marcel ... I’m sorry but what do you think Doctor Who is “had a better budget” HAHA🤣🤣 you know the show is on the BBC’s right ? Blue Peter makes things out of toilet roll tubes and cereal boxes which are more believable things than Doctor Who - but that’s the whole point Also you survived Series 9 so I dunno why you’re so mad at an episode which didn’t effect the overall canon or history of the show
Really enjoyed the episode but wanted more Yaz for a Yaz episode and didn’t feel like this belonged in the same series as Rosa cuz both are so heavy and have the doctor make the choice of a passive role which is for one thing repetitive.
My main problem with the story is that in the middle, it’s really boring. I FELL ASLEEP TWICE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STORY AND HAD TO REWATCH IT AGAIN. THAT SHOULD NOT HAPPEN WHEN I WATCH DOCTOR WHO.
Peter Korman The episode made me fall asleep. Because it was boring. The only time I have fallen asleep when watching Doctor Who was when I was watching The Crusade, The Myth Makers and The Massacre of St Bartholomew’s Eve which are picture reconstructions. The fact that I fell asleep before I even had dinner is a mystery, but the cause of me falling asleep was because of Doctor Who? Twice?! Sorry, but if an episode of Doctor Who makes me fall asleep twice before I even had my dinner, than I am not happy.
And thus its here where we learn of Stubagful's TRUE FEAR... Reality.
Somebody call the reality monster.
I like Chibnall's writing but this series proved that his strength as a showrunner is hiring guest writers. This episode was absolutely brilliant in every way.
His strength as a show-runner is letting other people write
Bear in mind the strongest episodes of most seasons of Moffats era were from guest writers as well,
S5: Vincent and The Doctor
S6: Doctors Wife
S7: Rings of Akhaten
S8: Mummy On The Orient Express and Flatline
I hope to God he writes no more than three episodes for series 12.
True. Davies on the other hand frequently wrote some of the best episodes of his seasons.
Id be happy if Chibnall gave away all the writing.
This is one of the few episodes I enjoyed, but the writing has been the weakest aspect of this season.
I wasn't surprised when I realised that the best eps were not solely written by him.
Sonic screwdriving waving and how the Partition could have been explored if they made this a 2-parter aside, the episode is otherwise really solid.
WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOUR CLASS SERIES ISNT REAL?!?
Iain 97 f
For someone’s first episode
It’s very strong
Fyi: Next video's Blunt Xmas TV Guide then end of year update vid then I'll be away for a little bit. I'll finish season 11 in the new year (you knew I'd probably have to do that, admit it :p)
i always enjoy your look at the xmas TV guides, enjoy your christmas, can't wait to see the rest of the reviews.
Stubagful i have a feeling you won't like the witchfinders the next historical episode this series.
Aww but kerblam was so good
I'd thought you'd do it in December next year
@@maldon3659 I tend to like witch stories generally. Been avoiding reviews till I get round to watching it
The first episode of the series I was really impressed with and the first one not written nor co-written by Chibnall. Is that any surprise?
I fucking love this episode. Despite how heavy it is I could honestly rewatch it a million times, and the visual direction of this episode is damn *gorgeous.* There’s one episode after this one that I like even more, but the more I watch this one the more and more it becomes an all time favorite.
I agree, it feels incredibly real and often times uncomfortable to watch but I still think it's the best episode of the season. The Thijarians having a minimal but still meaningful role in the plot was the best way to go about it, they're in it just the right amount and they don't take any attention away from the overall story. Their design is incredibly unique, the best I've seen in recent years, and the fact that the two don't look exactly alike in terms of their faces and garments adds an extra layer to them. I'd actually really like to see them return, maybe earlier in their timeline when they were still assassins?
That awkward moment when "He Who Moans" is more reasonable about season 11 than most
Another great review, although in a way I sort of feel like this episode can be viewed as a pure historical since the "monsters" are only really there to observe and pay respect, just like us the viewer. Really hope Vinay Patel comes back next season
A pure historical is an episode which doesn’t have sci fi elements apart from the Doctor,companions and the TARDIS.
It doesn’t matter how much or how little the aliens were in it, they were still in it.
@@iain9757 it's not about the fact they were in it, its the fact that they effectively took our role in the story
Isobel Lunn but it *is* the fact they were in it which doesn’t make this a pure historical,
You can’t argue that point no matter what they did or didn’t do
The Awakening isn’t a pure historical because the Malus is hardly in it and doesn’t do much
As some one who’s finished series 11 I realised that Chibnall really really just Should not be show runner because In my opinion all the best episodes of series 11 where written by people other than Chibnall, and I did really appreciate this episode
The historical episodes have been really good this year... just not the fun kind that I'd like to rewatch when I'm bored and tired after a day of work.
Hell, I still pop in Heaven Sent now and again, which is a depressing episode in itself which aired at a time when I was severely depressed already. Perhaps because it's a story that helps process my emotions at the time, as opposed to these which put up a very depressing reflection of the awful things that people have done and The Doctor being unable to interfere. But unlike episodes like The Aztecs where you've got subplots where The Doctor gets engaged by accident and Ian develops a rivalry with their general, the "Fun" element is lost a bit through most of the story and we're mostly left with that same feeling made by the ending.
That being said, I do really enjoy both episodes and it's probably added to why my favourite 13 moment so far is in the Witchfinders where she tries to save the old woman. Despite her instincts not to get involved, she had to sit by whilst Rosa was arrested and Prem was shot and she just decided "No More" and dives in, head-first to the rescue!
Thats kinda easy when the woman aint a known historical figure with an entire life path recorded for history instead of someone random who might have survived anyway cause she did it
TheJaviferrol The Doctor and companions have never even heard of the town either
That scene did stick out to me too. The fact that she went against her better judgement does give more character that she’s been lacking for the most part.
Demons of the Punjab is a perfect episode. God bless Vinay Patel and Jamie Childs!
No. It's pretty shit. I mean it really is. IMO
@@lordfiddler9811 It's one of the greatest episodes in the entire history of the show.
Demons of the Punjab>Rosa
Having completed the entirety of series 11, I still concede (as I did at the time of watching it) that Demons of the Punjaab was the best episode in it. Some might argue for Rosa, but the historical inaccuracies, terrible villain and inappropriate use of that terrible 'rise up' song really brought the episode down for me. Here, however, we just have a genuinely well-done episode: the opening framing device isn't just abandoned but actually built upon with Yaz talking to her grandmother at the end of the episode.
It feels like there is actual conflict between some of the characters and, rather than some exaggerated and actually pointless 'space racist' villain, the episode cuts the shit and tells it as is. There isn't any need for a villain and I was so glad that they had 'Demons' (both the aliens and what they truly were) equally tie into the thematic and emotional core of the episode with the harsh reality of the event as well as remembering the partition.
Funnily enough, the episode fell on Remembrance Sunday which I thought was a brilliant meta move on behalf of the showrunners whether done consciously or not. While war is a serious and important event, I think we become a little ignorant tend to forget remembering other things around us so to have that was another great addition.
It's been many years since I'd felt actual emotions for a Doctor Who episode, but Demons of the Punjaab actually almost made me tear up a little. The quiet, solemn ending where the Demons cover up the tragedy about to unfold making it even more tragic and heartbreaking, the performances, - it all just fucking works for the most part and I love it.
Most of series 11 is pretty bad in almost every aspect (more on that other times I suppose), but this one episode is probably the only great highlight to pick out. It could've been a little better in some areas, possibly kicking down some of the exposition (a consistent problem throughout the entire series) and maybe a little better direction in terms of performances, but overall just a solid and well-thought out episode which achieves its purpose. Good job, Vinay Patel!
Im really surprised you didnt see how the aliens were kind the same thing that Moffat did in Capaldis goodbye episode. But yeah, i agree on whats the problem on doing pure historicals? A DW novel writer said on Twitter that "Its to hold the attention of the kiddies". Then again, theres a reason the show stopped doing them in the first place. My only problem with it is the same as Rosa: this is DW at the end of the day and the emotion is there cause it occurred not cause the script built it from scratch (its like doing Joan of Arc knowing shes gonna end up on a fire just to get an emotional response from the audience)
Is it too dark to say that my companion would be a Holocaust survivor...?
I suppose that would be really dark but it's not like a companion like that couldn't work but it would be really difficult to not cause offence or do justice to the event and real people who went through that time. Also yeah I agree - while DOTP is my favourite episode of series 11 (which isn't really saying much) the aliens and sometimes stilted acting really did hold this episode back.
Hey, for what it's worth, one of my companions was going to be a 12 year old who is suffering from leukaemia, and the Doctor wanted to take him around the universe to see how much wonders there are, and he can treasure it before he dies. And then, once the companion dies, The Doctor just wonders what was the point of showing a child around the universe, when the child was going to pass away shortly.
Yeah, this is one of many messed up ideas that I used to have in my Doctor Who fan-fiction.
@@englishgiraffe2124 I do like that idea actually - maybe quite dark especially with a child but could be very poignant especially with the doctor giving someone the experience of a lifetime when they have such little time less and maybe helping that person come to terms with what is going to happen to them.
@@TheJaviferrol That is definitely a way to make the Daleks scary and make the Nazi analogy very literal but done right that could be a really effective way to bring that topic to life in the doctor who universe (although Doctor Who might have covered the holocaust at one point and I just haven't seen that story yet).
@@englishgiraffe2124 - I noticed that Doctor Who does seem a bit averse to having child companions, which is too bad as it is a bit limiting. My ex was extremely conflicted watching Eleventh Hour with me, because they were so hyped for young Amelia being the new traveling companion. They were furious that the episode fast-forwarded her character, and that was a cloud that loomed over their appreciation of all of the Amy Pond stories.
The aliens looked very Faction Paradox but shame the “stuff happens at the moment of death” has been done lots of time in the Moffat era & “last of my race & planet was destroyed” is also overused
Hooray, a fellow fan who knows about the Faction Paradox! Would be nice if Doctor Who actually references the EDA'S, but considering NewWho (specifically Moffat) has ripped off the idea of Faction Paradox and never really acknowledges it's legacy, I'll be surprised if it actually does
English Giraffe Moffat ripped off SO MUCH from the books, and yes while I’ve hardly read any there’s so much stuff which happens in the books and Moffat does, which makes his era even weaker
@@iain9757 Well, as someone who has read the EDA books about 10 times (seriously, some of the best Doctor Who media, bar none), I can almost definitely confirm that Moffat ripped off the EDA'S, and yet at the same time, didn't rip enough off, as evidenced by his plot holes and unanswered questions in Series 6. Name of the Doctor is almost one-to-one Alien Bodies, with it talking about the Doctor's future grave, an old acquaintance trying to change a timeline to their benefit, and the perfect companion being created to help the Doctor.
English Giraffe I might not have read them but yes I do know all the comparisons and while yes I’m sure there’s many I don’t know as they’ve not been talked about online a lot but now I’m breaking out into the ...”books which include the EU” such as AHistory (Can’t wait for V4 p2 this week)
@@englishgiraffe2124 Not read them yet myself but would like to. However I know the show has to be careful as it can't have stuff in the show that would require people to buy extra material to understand it
I loved this episode. It was my favourite of Series 11.
If you need something light hearted to watch and review, there’s that new Netflix show Hilda.
And here we have again a pinnacle of why I fucking love this channel. Never mind a review; this is a bloody monograph and a damn marvellous one at that too...! Never change Stu. NEVER.
The guest writers have definitely been better than Chibnall, I liked S11 but Doctor Who hasn't quite been the same for me since Russel left. Maybe that's because how I was first introduced to the show, even Jodey, who I enjoy doesn't feel quite like The Doctor yet, and no it's not because she's a woman. She just hasn't had that Doctor moment for me yet.
Same! I always felt that every incarnation of the Doctor needed a sense of gravitas to their performance, the sense of "I am hundreds if not thousands of years old and I've seen some s h i t". Not something overly dramatic or tediously played out like Russel or Moffat did, but a nice little speech here and there like the BF writers usually do. I love Jodie as an actress, but I feel like shes really missing that. The worst thing is that it's not that hard for the writers to do that. All it takes is one little speech.
@@wigglyziggly People are saying the speech to King James is her Doctor moment, and while it was good, it just wasn't that moment for me, if you know what I mean. I feel she's been let down by the writing.
I get what you mean definitely. For me personally, I had that moment of her with gravitas during Kerblam! when she really lays down the law with the higher ups. Actually, I just overall really loved Kerblam! It does have to be said though that I didn't enjoy Matt Smith at all in his first series and only warmed to him at the beginning of series 6. He's now up there as in my Top 5 Doctors, so I wouldn't worry about it (not that you were).
@@Herosmurf I'm not sure how about Matt Smith, I think he's a good actor and like you, I did warm to him, I just felt he got let down by some bad episodes and convoluted story arcs. I liked Kerblam, needed more Lee Walsh though
I think it's the writing and the fact that there are so many companions she doesn't get as much time per episode as previous doctors. I do think her speech in It Takes You Away did it for me though.
I really enjoyed this episode and feel pretty guilty about it now. Thanks Stuart 👍
*GRR I'M SO ANGRY FOR BEING MADE TO THINK ABOUT A PIECE OF MEDIA I LIKED*
You feel guilty. Ah. Good. Mission accomplished. Lol
Critics have complained for years. “Oh, it’s the Daleks again, Oh, it’s the Cybermen again, etc...” When we see how humans have been monsters - now people are complaining, “Where are the Cybermen? Where are the Daleks?” Chibnall gave us something new and different a lot of people were screaming for and now they want their pillow back. I feel sorry for the Chibnall, the cast and crew. For me the episodes of Rosa and Demons of the Punjab it was deeply compelling. It was also a gut punch to some of the worst bad guys on Doctor Who… I’ll end this with a statement from Gwen Cooper of Torchwood, Children of Earth Day 5: There's one thing I always meant to ask Jack. Back in the old days. I wanted to know about that Doctor of his. The man who appears out of nowhere and saves the world. Except sometimes he doesn't. All those times in history when there was no sign of him, I wanted to know why not. But I don't need to ask any more. I know the answer now. Sometimes the Doctor must look at this planet and turn away in shame.
til new and different means discount predator and shaved stich quality
Good story, it doesn't feel like a Doctor who episode in the conventional sense, more like Vinay Patel's other work - Murdered By My Father. I wish the acting was better though and that it wasn't misleading with the aliens "We will stand over your corpses" gee what a kind way to introduce yourself. I also would have liked to have seen what the Partition of India looked like on a larger scale rather than just this family, the brothers motivation could have been explored further, perhaps that could've been done if it was a two-parter. The music is great though and the emotional moments hit so hard they gloss over most of the flaws.
Really it's Ironic back in the 60's Terry Nation Wrote an unfilmed Dr Who Story called The Red Fort about the Indian Mutiny
This was the first episode of the season, apart from the woman who fell to earth, that I enjoyed. I really like the story of this episode.
Idk about the Doctor and her companions involvement in the story... I wasn’t convinced that these British people just waltz in on India after the petition claiming to be family - idk didn’t add up for me.
But Yaz’s character arc was great. Too bad Yaz does nothing else in this season
You should have had the title of the video be “DOCTOR WHO S11 NEVER GONNA WATCH IT AGAIN” with lots of sad emojis in the thumbnail or even have it in the thumbnail as like with HMC you’ll get people hate clicking because you’re already perceived as negative
Just gonna say, love your vidoes also the date the epsiode orignally aired was armistice.
FOCUS STEWART!
This is my favorite episode of series 11
The reason pure historicals died out because the gunfighters was really shit and 99.9% percent of people working on doctor who thought alternative history would be more interesting to focus on instead.
If having no Storm Trooper aiming is what automatically makes a good Doctor Who story, no wonder Demons of the Punjab is fantastic for it's tragic death of Prem Barsar.
Don't worry, I know exactly what you mean. I'm the same with Pan's Labyrinth. It's a beautiful film but it's as harsh as Schindler's List and it features scary monsters. I do not want to watch it again!
Wow. That was an incredibly thought provoking and insightful concluding statement, Stu.
I'm glad you thought this episode good...I wish I had thought that way too. I really wanted to like this one and while I found the episodes setting brave and interesting, the ending kind of spoilt it for me. ...so there's Yas, turning up for her Grandmother's wedding - she doesn't disguise herself in any way and even tells everyone her real name. She looks exactly the same as she does in her actual present...so why then does the Grandmother not remember Yas being at her wedding? The ending should be her looking at Yas oddly and suddenly remembering that someone called Yas, who looked oddly like Yas does now - and brought a strange band of people with her ...oh, and there were aliens too ...were all there on her blinking wedding day!!! I just don't get why the Grandmother didn't have more of a reaction to Yas and co effectively altering time a little. The Doctor should have told Yas that she couldn't be seen as her Grandmother would recognise her when they travelled back to their present - but she doesn't mention this, no one mentions the dangers of Yas being seen and then the Grandmother just doesn't mention it at the end. Weird. I remember when this kind of tampering with time actually had consequences.
At the start of the episode, Yaz's grandmother makes it clear that she won't tell Yaz the full story about her past until she's "older". I took that to mean that Yaz was always a part of those events, and her grandmother had at some point realized it was her at the wedding. She refused to tell Yaz what happened because she remembered that, at the wedding, Yaz didn't know what happened. At the end, when she asks Yaz if she wants to talk about it, she's realized that Yaz has now lived through those events, so it's safe to discuss them:- and Yaz says no, because of course, she was there, so there's no need to hear the story. Yaz's grandmother remembers - and has always remembered - everything that happened, but at the start of the episode she can't talk about it, and at the end, there's no need to. The timeline was never altered.
@@Alfwin That's definitely a well thought-out and well-constructed opinion and could very well be what the writer intended - or you could just be doing a better job than the writer and finding an explanation to fit an otherwise large plot hole. Either way, it just strikes me as odd that Yaz's (my apologies for incorrectly spelling her name before) Grandmother doesn't question Yaz about her being there or give even a subtle nod to suggest that she remembered her being there. If I was Yaz's Grandmother I'd be super interested in how it was my Granddaughter appeared at my wedding before she was even born. I don't know. It just doesn't make sense to me. But there you go - that's just my thoughts :)
In my headcanon Yaz's grandmother suggested the name " Yazmin" when Yaz was born because she remembered that girl at her wedding.
Hey Stuart what do you think of 'A Brief History of Time Lords'?
I'll do you one better Stu, set a Doctor Who story inside a Russian Gulag in the 1950s
I tend to like the action episodes of Who. I like Daleks and Cybermen and ray guns and UNIT shooting at things. I am a bit frivolous in that way. There hasn't really been any action episodes in S11. But I did enjoy this episode. The supporting cast sold it. I felt Graham was excellent in this one. His humanity really shined.
This was the best episode of series 11 by far. This had far more depth and a rather layered emotional tone over Rosa in my opinion. The science fiction aspect was treated with subtlety, unlike Rosa with the time travelling racist trope. Rosa would have been far greater as a straight forward historical storyline.
Yeah, this episode was heavy. This whole season feels like it is either frivolous or beat you to death with your own bleeding heart. Where's the whimsical middleground?
Jeremy Duncan Kerblam?
Ok. I'll give you that one. I love that one. I watched it out of order so it kind of went to the back of my mind.
Jeremy Duncan I mean, when you really think about the episodes a little heavy. But it's all played for goofy fun.
My favorite scene in this episode was The Doctor participating in the Henna ceremony.
I felt the show didn't explore The Doctor's new gender in creative enough ways, but I liked this one. The Doctor gets to participate in an activity meant ONLY for women.
This story could have so easily been a pure historical. The aliens are literally there to watch and do nothing.
It's thematic, they were there because the episode was for Remembrance Day.
That theme could have easily been conveyed without the aliens though
Yay! I've been waiting for this!
when he mentioned imagine an episode set in a concintration camp am i the only one who though of the big finish story colditz?
The character Feldwebel Kurtz is played by David Tennant,. The beginning of the Elizabeth Klein storie arc.
I don't know, were you?
@@tonym2744 i like the klein arc and it is one of the few non 8th doctor stories that i havein my collection. also i didn't know about the tennet thing, that makes at least three different doctors who appear in the klein series.
That was set in, y'know, Colditz castle and not a concentration camp. I'm not 100% sure but I think there was a big difference between how prisoners of war and Holocaust victims were treated in Nazi Germany. The closest comparison would probably be the novel Just War, which I haven't read but is apparently extremely nasty.
Concentration camps and POW camps were different. In general, pows were treated better (although not much) than those in the work camps. They recieved red cross parcels, we're allowed to pray, enjoyed sports etc. It wasn't a holiday camp and the conditions were awful but basic rations were allowed. I think it was a respect thing, especially with the Luftwafe and the RAF. Flying was always considered a gentleman's pursuit. However, this is a British POV, the way the Russian pows were treated was rank. I'd like to see the Doctor in the Great Escape, though. Maybe he could use the sonic to make Steve McQueen clear the second fence!
Also if you read up on the first season of doctor who there was a Terry Nation Script called the Red Fort about the even more rough event in the British empire the Indian Mutiny
I thought this story was great. A very educatonal story about a historical event I knew little about and a very personal character story for Yaz and a villain that fitted perfectly into Rememberance day. I made a review on my channel if anyone wants to check it out.
As an Indian, didn't like it. Didn't feel it being accurately represented. Might watch it again.
As a Brit who has some understanding of the event and why it happened, I thought this episode was a biased outrage. Stu has given this far too easy a ride, we need to ask, historical stories, ok fine, but if history cannot be shown in balance it becomes propaganda. Which gives this episode a nasty aftertaste
@@johnwhite9461 Are you saying it was biased against the British?
@@Jay-vb9ff it's a weird episode in that it feels like the sort of propaganda that's pushed by hegemonic groups in India. It very oddly glosses over the *violent* history of colonialism (the way the war is represented and the way Prem talks about the British, for instance) but blames the British for partition when it was really because of Indian and Pakistani elites who pushed for partition because it meant they could acquire more power in the post-colonies. It just seems to give a pass to Indian elites/upper castes AND the British while trying to hold both accountable. Also it just gets very basic stuff wrong which were cringeworthy. Partition happens on August 14th (not 17th)...yk, Pakistan's Independence day, no one calls it "the Punjab"...all of which makes me wonder how much research the writer did (which any good writer should do when doing a historical). Lots of other stuff as well which put me off, but that's more wrt nuance that I don't expect to be seen in a British show.
Probably the second best episode this Series (does this count as spoilers, like I don't think it's a shocker that the next episodes would not be great)
Children of men is a really good movie I don't wnat to see again, at least for the next years. And I own the DVD.
About the episode: I think it's strange, that this time period don't seem to be a big thing in britisch history class. I learned about it in my english class in school and I am german. How it effects modern indian politics and social life even was an option as a topic for the final exams.
So how do you rate the series so far compared to Moffat, will you do a round up once you get to the finish of it? As I think it would be interesting to hear your thoughts on the change in style of show compared to the past 7 years especially since like many of us you were sick of Moffat's rott.
welcome back, wonder what happened. thought you had just given up on series 11, but here you are hiding under your desk. i'd really love to hear your thoughts on the rest of the episodes and what you thought overall., but guess i'll have to sit here waiting til new year. have a good (ish) xmas.
I think I understand what you mean. I reminds me of the documentary Shoah which I've had on my DVD shelf for way too long, which I keep telling myself I need to watch, but I can't bring myself to it because I know that it will not be enjoyable in the slightest
To say that _Shoah_ is not an easy watch would be a massive understatement, but it's a truly remarkable film. Did you get around to seeing it?
Imagine if in the new year special all of the "Fam" died and the doctor ended as a complete and utter mess! I would be excited for season 12 just to see how she handles the change.
Great job on the positivity, Stu.
This is probably one of the few times Yaz felt like an actual character this series.
I kindof thought this episode was the antithsis of Rosa: It tackled politics without feeling heavy-handed and made it clear there were heros and villains on all sides, with no easy answer to a horrible situation. However, the performances of the supporting actors were utterly terrible, and really dented the emotional weight of this epsiode for me. Rosa's supporting cast were superb
Yep Malcom X would have done the same against whites, History is not black and white.
I get that this episode was based on very real and heavy stuff but that doesn't mean it's automatically as heavy as something like The Schindler's List. That kind of emotion has to be earned and while Demons of the Punjab certainly earns some of it, storytelling wise it and The Schindler's List are just on two very different levels. But maybe that's just me. I am American though so I could see how a British person's viewing of this episode would be radically more emotional
Having a Who episode set in Auschwitz, good or bad, can only be a one-time watch. That would be too emotionally taxing to watch a second time.
Do wish that purple mist thing was explained (like what did it do) and how did the doctor not notice that the holy man had been shot and not zapped by aliens
it was odd for me, having been taught about this in history, to suddenly be like "Oh shit! I know what this is!" and to know that most of the audience won't.
At least you aren’t ranting and decimating the show because of how dark it went such as a certain hat guy with s8
Iain 97 who?
Well, I'm not British and therefore have a different - certainly more detached - point of view regarding this part of history but I really like the setting here.
It certainly requires a huge amount of courage, tact and respect to portray dire events of recent history which are still alive in some people's memory.
Personally I'm always for tackling events like this, pulling dire parts of history from the pages of school books and alike where they feel distant and safe. As if something like that couldn't happen in our time and whatever peaceful country we have the privileg to live.
Borrowing your example of the Holocaust: If handled with extreme tact; if (as stupid and blunt as this might sound) done "right" an episode of Doctor Who (maybe better than any other show) could not only tell a powerful and emotionally rich story but deliver commentary about the aftermath of one of the biggest mass murders in human history and its consequences - which are evident to this day. It is my personal conviction that a society has to face its past in order to grow.
As a German I would love to see an episode of the show dealing with the darkest chapter in this country's past.
Out of interest, when do you think it’s the right age to learn about concentration camps because that’s really nightmare inducing... too nightmare inducing for dr who I think. Maybe if they focused on survivors and not openly talk about the camps in detail... but then it’s maybe not doing the subject justice. It’s so hard.
@@bigspongeyfan1 Difficult question. I watch DW from an adult's perspective but I believe children can deal with topics like death and human cruelty.
To be honest though the Holocaust is no topic people need a lot of information about (at least in this part of the world). Therefore you can work with implications and indirect story stelling and deliver an engaging, meaningful episode without traumatising the youth. Furthermore: These days every episode has a trailer of its own. Let parents decide if their child is ready to deal with such topics. Every child is different and to say someone is ready to watch something because they have reached age X is absurd.
I grew up with stories about death and grief from a very young age and I loved them because they didn't sugar coat me. I still love movies that make me cry because they leave an impact and give me reason to think or re-think about whatever issues it deals with. Why not use pop culture media to introduce children to real life topics in a shilded enviroment?
So the real question is: Would it make a difference if they showed a Dalek death camp instead of a concentration camp?
Everyone has to answer that one for themselves but if the answer is yes, than I honestly believe we NEED this Holocaust episode to be made. Because the only reason I can see for making a difference between real and fictional cruelty is our own discomfort with the idea that we ourselves could be able to execute it given the right (or rather: wrong) circumstances. And again: media can provide us with a safe opportunity to confront these fears.
That said the 3. Reich gives writers enough material beside that. How about the indoctrination of children? Or an episode about someone how spoke up like Dietrich Bonhoeffer or members of the White Rose?
What's the song used in the end credits?
wait, stewart had no proper complaints about a doctor who episode? WHAT IS THis
This was a pretty good episode with a few faults
The actress who played Yaz's grandmother as a young woman was truly marvelous in this.
Another strong very deep historical
No it’s not
I’ve seen this video 3 times
This is the second edition
Have you not noticed people’s comments which predate the video on most this series ?
TVinSin it was made “live” to the “public” 35 minutes ago I assume you know about Patreon - it’s at the end of Stuart’s videos all the time
I did really like it but I can't deny the acting of the younger brother was really bad and ruins a lot of the emotion for me.
Why include aliens 3 times they could have had pure historicals but this terrible crowbarring in of aliens is why it's not very interesting ultimately.
Can I have a bag full of Stu?
Before watching it I’m guessing Stu gives it a bad review. Though I personally loved it.
I liked all the things in the episode but felt that putting them all in the same episode didn't really work. There was time to do the historical stuff or the alien stuff, but not really both. Still, not bad.
Next time, a good generic episode of Doctor Who.
this is a great review
cob1 mob2 great review of the review
@@bigspongeyfan1 wow that's a great review of a great review of a review
Coming back here today as I've just heard Chibnall is actually planning a Holocaust story for Series 12. Stubagful's point is very very relevant. Demons worked, Rosa worked IMO but a Holocaust story... a step too far I think. We will see what happens.
Jesus Christ I just....no, just no
See for me, it wasn't that touching. I just didn't buy it, and I think it could have been something great to watch in a full length movie. Not for Doctor Who.
Suddenly an anvil
Love this episode
Virtue Signaling of the Punjab.
Nommy substance
Ahahah "effort" have other WhoTubers cameos (yes I watch multiple channels yes I know I know..)
I really don't get why Aliens are in it why didn't they just make this and the Racism story pure historicals
I think its not widely taught because its didnt happen in britain and because there so much history u cant teach it all, also people dont need to own up to a colonial past they were never a part of
Its great!Why? IT TOOK MY SOUL.
its good but its s11 good you know
Really good?
It was the first one I watched of this season and I had to pause it 8 times out of frustration and had to calm down before I could continue watching.
One time even took hours.
The episodes after this one didn't have that effect. Yeah Witchfinder was irritating too, but God, I hated this one!
Still gonna watch the rest of this review of course.
If youre having to literally pause an episode because youre that het up then maybe this show isn't for you...
@@optimisticwhovian1726 Right, yeah, because I don't like an episode/season, the entire friggin' show isn't for me.
Bravo, you must be a certified psychologist?
Just look at the Rottentomatoes reviews; a LOT of people have gotten seriously angry at this season. Are you telling me that NONE of these people should have watched earlier seasons?
Well if youre bitching about a trope being overused clearly you've been watching too much show, you cant have it both ways, youre either enjoying the show or you aren't smart arse, youre a typical nerd who wants to bitch and complain then sulks when he's called out on it, decide which way youre going here, have you got anything positive to say about the show or not? @@MarcelNL
surprised by your review on this one Stu, a major issue is these events truly cannot be captured in one 50 minute who. This should have been two, even three parts, and the problem with this is the lack of full context. It wasn't just one way you know! Nor does it do a credible job of explaining how and why these events happened
My thoughts too. Also, I know Mr Bagful doesn't go down the rabit whole of arguing the PC or social justice type issues, but I can't help thinking from the reactions I've seen elseware to this episode and Rosa that it seems very difficult to please people with this kind of story. On one hand, you get people who can't stand the heavy handedness, getting annoyed and turned off by it. Then the people who are really right on, start kicking off because the show wasn't right on enough. As you say, it's a bad idea to attempt the story in a one off episode, because you inevitably end up sentering more on certain points and totally missing out others.
So do you want dark and mature Doctor Who or not?
Dark and mature, but tasteful, not like a concentration camp story.
Honestly it all depends on how the material is handled.
I'm not expecting Doctor Who to have an episode equivalent to the 80s movie Threads for example.
But at the same time there is something to be said about capturing the brutality in a way where you can get a good idea of what the time period was like and have the characters put in danger in a way that doesn't feel anemic or that its in any way sugar coated like some stories have had to be due to its family audience.
I actually would really love that, especially after how lighthearted and feel-good the Moffat era was.
I lost immediate interest in the episode when I realized the aliens weren't the villains and were basically a rip-off of one of Moffat's worst monsters (Hint, Testimony)
Guess there must not be many episodes you do like if you’re going to throw this episode away because the monster was similar to another one
Also testimony wasn’t a monster or even a baddie
Neither were the ones in this episode
Testimony was New Earths going back in time and getting people’s whole life for basically a history book
It was the first episode that I saw of this season and yeah; that was a HUGE turn-off.
I still hoped a bit that there would be a plottwist that they had lied and actually stole the souls of those people.
Everybody else reacting here seems to absolutely have loved the episode. Personally I really hated everything about it.
Okay I'm not British so I have no historical connection to whatever happened there but the acting, really stupid lines sometimes, stupid moments and other details really ENRAGED me watching it. I never felt so frustrated before watching Doctor Who.
Later episodes were less bad; Kerblam was inoffensive enough (really no masterpiece though), Witchfinder was irritating and could have been MUCH better if it had a better writer and producer and a bit more budget. The finale which was a stolen storyline I actually enjoyed quite a bit, even if it wasn't devoid of irritating moments. (Skipped the It takes you away one.)
Marcel ... I’m sorry but what do you think Doctor Who is “had a better budget” HAHA🤣🤣
you know the show is on the BBC’s right ?
Blue Peter makes things out of toilet roll tubes and cereal boxes which are more believable things than Doctor Who - but that’s the whole point
Also you survived Series 9 so I dunno why you’re so mad at an episode which didn’t effect the overall canon or history of the show
@@MarcelNL I'd definitely recommend watching It Takes You Away. It might be my favourite of this series. Not quite sure, but it's up there.
Really enjoyed the episode but wanted more Yaz for a Yaz episode and didn’t feel like this belonged in the same series as Rosa cuz both are so heavy and have the doctor make the choice of a passive role which is for one thing repetitive.
I LOVED Umbreen. Kind of wish she'd be a companion, instead of Yaz.
My main problem with the story is that in the middle, it’s really boring. I FELL ASLEEP TWICE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STORY AND HAD TO REWATCH IT AGAIN. THAT SHOULD NOT HAPPEN WHEN I WATCH DOCTOR WHO.
That sounds more like a you-problem than a problem with the episode.
Peter Korman The episode made me fall asleep. Because it was boring. The only time I have fallen asleep when watching Doctor Who was when I was watching The Crusade, The Myth Makers and The Massacre of St Bartholomew’s Eve which are picture reconstructions. The fact that I fell asleep before I even had dinner is a mystery, but the cause of me falling asleep was because of Doctor Who? Twice?! Sorry, but if an episode of Doctor Who makes me fall asleep twice before I even had my dinner, than I am not happy.
I love the overall concept of the story but the way that they executed it felt kinda of bad with a lot of badly writhen fluff
It wasn’t awful but it’s not half as good as Vincent and the Doctor.