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I became Catholic five years ago, having been raised a Jehovah’s Witness. I had been inactive with any faith for a couple decades, although my theological beliefs were still rooted in the JW teachings. When I started going to Mass with my wife, a cradle Catholic, I actually appreciated not being “love bombed” when I walked through the door but my wife did enjoy the sheer panic and uncomfortable look on my face every time peace be with you rolled around as most in the pews reach out 360 degrees. One of the things that drew me in was the respect for the Eucharist and the need to have confessed your sins, to be free from sin, before taking in something so Holy. I really felt at Mass it was the first time I was worshiping God, not just learning about Him or enjoying the company of others, but getting on my knees and worshiping. That really pulled me in and started me towards reading the church fathers and doctrines which convinced me I should be Catholic. Thanks for sharing your journey, I’ve really enjoyed learning about how others worship!
I think the reason maybe you aren't getting greeted is because in Catholic mass/Orthodox Liturgy, the focus is on the holy sacrifice so people don't really chit chat. BUT, after the mass/liturgy, they almost always have potlucks or some kind of gathering around food and beverage where everyone gets to know one another. So you should look into the gatherings after mass and surely you will be able to get to know people of that Parish.
That's good to know. I mentioned with the "monk church" a few weeks ago, a gentleman invited me for coffee and donuts with other parish members. I can't say enough how warm that welcome was and to speak with other members. That goes such a long, positive way.
The Mass is not about fellowship, though I do wish more parishes had greeters at the doors for visitors and new people to connect with questions etc. The Mass is also a communal gathering of Christ’s Visible Church on Earth. The Mass is not a service. It is His Church gathering to re-present to the Father the sacrifice of the Son for our Salvation. The Mass is A PRAYER prayed by His Body to the Father in Jesus, with Jesus, and through Jesus in the power of the Holy Spirit.
Yes, exactly. The Mass/Eucharist is a solemn, holy sacrament. It's not for socializing. I always felt very peaceful at Mass. Very different from the social Protestant services I have attended.
FYI, the 1 hour Catholic mass is always 'quiet and reverant' and singularly Christ focused. Parish picnics etc are where the kegs come out (literaly!) and Catholic fellowship is celebrated, but not in the worship space!! The proper place for each place and thing. Also, a tip from a life-long Catholic - when you remain in the pew during communion, nobody is judging, they are charitably allowing you to go in your turn ( before them) - simply nod or point for them to go on, as I have done many times when I myself was not properly disposed to receive communion.
Another lifetime protestant here. But....in the 1970s we traveled with a Catholic priest and we ministered with him all over the world - an eye-opening experience to realize the depth of the Catholic awe and respect they have for God.
I am a revert to Catholicism after 30 years as an evangelical. I think there’s no way that you can appreciate what you are seeing without studying first. For example you see a statue of Mary and immediately you think idolatry. If you studied beforehand you would at least know why Catholics pray to Mary and the Saints. You might still think it’s wrong but you would have some understanding of why we do it.
The thing about Catholic mass you need to understand: We believe the Eucharist that has been consecrated is the actual body and blood of Christ. This doesn’t mean literally transformed. We know it has the appearance of bread and wine and tastes as such. But through the power of God the substance of that eucharist is the body and blood of Christ through the power of God. That means our building where we have church, actually shelters the body and blood of Christ as long as their are consecrated eucharists inside. So when you are in a building with a king inside you are expected to show reverence to your king when in his house. We are preparing for the Eucharistic literature before mass starts … not really a time to be acting like it’s a party or some grand social event with your friends. If you were to go to Buckingham Palace to meet a monarch … would you be loud boisterous and talking and chatting with your other friends who were waiting there? Or would you feel compelled to respect the palace for what it is … the kings house … not a frat house, a place that demands respect and reverence. There are social rooms in some church’s that you can act as social as you want. But the foyer area is expected to stay quiet before mass as people in the nave are preparing themselves for mass and it’s out of respect for the holiness of that area you are discouraged from making noise that could disturb those who are praying to God getting themselves ready for what is to come. We also when entering the church to go sit down … we bow to where the consecrated eucharist is stored … a sign of respect for the king to bow down to where he is. The Eucharist are kept in the tabernacle and there will be a red candle by it. When that candle is lit, it’s the signal to tell congregants that their are consecrated eucharist inside. The entire mass when it starts is to prepare ourselves by asking for forgiveness for the sins we have done, hearing readings from OT, epistles and the gospel that all convey the same theme (typological topic). There is also a psalm that we sing which is also aligned with the theme. The Eucharist when it is consecrated … Christ warned you have to be aligned with him (state of mortal sin) to receive it without being damned as Christ was trying to warn Judas. This is why we do not give the Eucharist to non-Catholics. You can’t receive it if you aren’t obedient enough to be formerly made a part of the church Christ started (viewed as a mortal sin - if you don’t see the Catholic Church as worth being a part of … to receive a consecrated eucharist with that in mind is an additional insult to Christ). And we make sure adults who want to join are put through RCIA so that they are able to learn what the church believes, what we do, allow the person to ask questions and get answers … so that they understand what it is to be Catholic and so you understand how to conduct yourself. There are also people who are not Catholic who go up to get a eucharist so that they can carry it outside of the church to desecrate it … even to do black magic on it. The priest watches to ensure people are eating it near him and will stop someone they see who hasn’t consumed theirs. People who shouldn’t get the eucharist can still get it and leave the building with it or consume it … but it’s not the priest you have to worry about … it’s God and you can’t pull a fast one on him. These are the rules the priests try to enforce as this is what the apostles taught. People who were looking at you, not judging you for sitting instead of going up for a blessing. You may have thought so but that’s not what they said to you. People in your pew that had to squeeze by you … they may have felt “great a choke point sitting in the way because they don’t want a blessing … why won’t they go get a blessing … do they hate God so much they can’t even do that?” … but that’s the most. Many people in my church are disabled so they can’t get up and go … even if they look mobile. And no one disapproves.
David, As a Catholic I do understand all the different biases and complaints from non-Catholic visitors. I think the one that stands out in my mind was a visiting Protestant who had to continuously make a point "Where's the bibles?" This is actually funny because the entire mass is scripture! People get too hung up on what they are used to and do not really listen, not to mention that Catholic churches have the missals with the readings in them for each week. It was just their way of trying to debunk the celebration. Funny that you made a point about eucharist, too. Remember how our Lord fed thousands while preaching on the mount? I am sure that was quite efficiently done! And the other point about not being able to receive the body and blood, or the meal after having been invited to the celebration... Keep in mind that none of us will enter heaven without first being purified. Our Catholic phrase is "You must be in communion to receive communion. Additionally, the "wafer" is actually the body of Christ - true presence! It looks like a wafer but is consecrated and becomes the body of Christ, just as Jesus did at the Last Supper. Most of all, remember that Protestants were the protestors of the original church, which never made sense to me. Jesus established His church, which we believe IS the Catholic church. If you protest and leave Jesus' church...Why would you? Peace on your journey!
I can appreciate the podcast trying to be respectful of religions visted, but this video reveals an extremely shallow understanding of catholicism. He did not observe genuflecting and the sign of the crross on entering the pews, which is particular to catholics. The eucharist and heaven meeting the church on earth is central to going to mass.
Born, raised and still LDS and I have loved my visits to Roman and several Eastern Catholic churches. Even the all Latin version with the priest facing away from the congregation like a cosmic bus driver directing us outward to eternity. Thanks for sharing insights from your visit.
I been a catholic all my life, like you and appreciate you saying is the catholic faith is how greatful I am for what Jesus did for us. When I go. I never go for others. I am there for Jesus. I dont need people to try to make me feel welcome. Im there to see the humbled Jesus. The meaning of the gospel. Most priest are there to read the Bible. Communion is Holy. We treat Every thing about God as Holy. We make people understand their sins and unholy ways. To take confession seriously your going to meet God. AN ALMIGHTY GOD. A HOLY GOD. Im greatful for the teaching ways. For me its a form of respect. God will always be first.
One of the reasons I like being Catholic is that I can remain anonymous when going to Mass at a different parish when I travel. I am an introvert myself and when I go to a Protestant service with a friend. They ask if there are any newcomers and I have to stand and say hello. i know they are trying to be nice but I do not care for it..
As a lifelong Catholic, I’m not surprised at some of your comments. It’s funny how many Catholics go to church and say the same things you do. Going to church isn’t about what you get, it’s about praising Jesus and his sacrifice, period. All I can say about fallen away Catholics is, if they only knew what they had, they would’ve never left.
Hi David, I really enjoyed the video and you brought up some very good points. I am a Cradle Catholic that reverted to the faith a year ago. A big reason why I 'stopped' being Catholic was my lack of knowledge about the reason there are all the rituals etc. in the Church. I want to address some of the points you mentioned to give you a reason (hopefully in a nice way 😬) Your first point was about the silence in the Church. Because of our belief in the True Presence of Christ in the Eucharist (kept in the Tabernacle) a certain amount of reverence is required and so silence is encouraged. People are often Praying in the Church aswell which is why it is usually silent and probably why no-one greeted you when you entered. The sermon... Some sermons are pretty bad in Catholic Masses these days and a reason for that is most probably a lack of preparation and 'effort' put into them. The reason for no reaction when the Priest said he had been re-assigned was because during the Mass, there is usually silence kept unless the Laity are meant to speak during the Liturgy e.g. a response. I would recommend reading a book called "Rome Sweet Home" By Dr Scott Hahn, a former protestant. He explains his conversion story, which is very biblical and everything is laid out very logically. The point about Mary is a common one and again I would recommend Dr Scott Hahn. This is a podcast but it breaks down Mary in the Bible (open.spotify.com/episode/7EQAbWT7GNpRUe5e9frArL?si=5422e522a9d64bb6) The point about not being to receive Holy Communion is a challenging topic. Because we (Catholics) believe that the celebration of the Eucharist is a sign of the reality of the oneness of faith, life, and worship, members of those churches with whom we are not yet fully united are usually not allowed to receive Our Lord. We also believe in the True Presence of Jesus's Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity in the Hosts, and so (I am not sure exactly what you believe) but for someone outside of the faith to receive Our Lord would be going against that doctrine. Again I would recommend "Rome Sweet Home by Scott Hahn" Another reason for this is that it is the Holy Sacrament. To receive the Holy Sacrament you have to be in a state of grace (I am not accusing you of mortal sin but you have to be) as shown in 1 Cor. 11:28-29 where it shows this need. The need for Confession is show in an early Church Document from around 70AD, the Didache witnesses to this practice of the early Church. “But first make confession of your faults, so that your sacrifice may be a pure one” (Didache 14). (if you have any further question on this I would recommend searching for Bishop Robert Barron, Ascension presents or Breaking in the Habit on youtube). Ive already spoken to not being greeted and the silence at the door. The Sign of Peace is often just very short and brief and again during the Liturgy is a place where no-one strikes up conversations. A place where you find more social interaction would be after Masses. You will find this more in community Parishes after you have established yourself there and become a 'regular' people will start to talk to you. Again I would highly recommend the book 'Rome Sweet Home' by Scott Hahn. Thank you for the video it was a very good watch May God Bless and Keep You. Yours in Christ, Francis
I'm LDS and we have a very similar view of reverence. We try to be quiet and reflective. We also don't believe in having loud instruments. And we would agree with your reasons as well; you try to be quiet to show respect to God and also to allow others to pray.
To Catholics the focus is on the Eucharist/Jesus , and worshipping Him. The mass is not about us nor is it a social event. It is very solemn, holy and personal.
Hey Susan, a little late on my reply, but appreciate you watching and helping an outsider like me to understand it better. Never looked at it in that light.
@fedko - spot on. The Source and the Summit of the Catholic faith is the Mass - the Once and Only Sacrifice of our Lord at Calvary and represented to the Heavenly Father in atonement for our sins and the sins of the whole world fullfilng the prophecy of Malachi 1:11 - My name will be great among the nations, from where the sun rises to where it sets. In every place “incense and pure offerings” will be brought to me, because my name will be great among the nations,” says the LORD Almighty. Too be a student of history is to cease being a Protestant- St John Henry Newman. Pax Christi
Yeah from the priest to the procession and the music it all has deep meaning and very solemn and serious. Priest isn’t making it about him, music isn’t your local Christian rapper it’s songs thatve been passed down for hundreds or thousands of years. It’s funny what turns off some people and exactly what turns others onto something.
The reason why Catholics don't greed and chat before going into mass is because most of us are fasting before going to church in order to take the holy communion and contemplating on the week ahead and our sins. We go to pray and be in God's grace before communion. After mass we do socialize and have coffee and pastry.
Again in Catholic church, during mass,we don't concentrate on people, we only concentrate on the sacrifice being made at the altar. After mass you can join societies in church,you will get to meet people, usually some persons go home immediately after mass while some stay back to pray, in other not to feel left out ,you join any sodality of you choice, Catholic has a lot of members you can't really know all and they won't really notice if you're new unless you isolate your self staying at the back.
I am shocked you got so many stares when you didn't go up for the Eucharist. I say this because, even if you are Catholic, you should not receive the Eucharist if you have not done a valid confession in awhile/have mortal sin you haven't confessed. When I got mass I see many people who do not go up for Eucharist and it is not a big deal at all. Just surprising people were looking at you.
Not for this one - no stares here. First Catholic visit though, I was right in the center of the worship area and felt SO uncomfortable with the glances and stares. After that, every Catholic mass I'd attend would be sitting as far back as possible. Even then (I still remember my time at a downtown Milwaukee basilica), I'd still get some curious looks from people who were seated near the back. Still, was so curious about it and couldn't put my finger on why.
We don't chitchat during Mass or waiting for the Mass to begin because the act of reverence is important also the Eucharistic Host only can receive by those who practicing Catholic (truly Believe that the Eucharist is the Body of Christ not just a symbol) and in the state of grace (Sacrament Confession)
In catholic faith, christ is present in the Eucharist and before you receive it ,you have to accept all the doctrines of the church.and you have to go catechism before you receive the holy Communion and that is what every Catholic has to do and you have to be baptized in Catholic. Before receiving is compulsory you're in State of grace.
Why the non Catholics cannot receive the communion is we believe it is truly The Body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ. The non Catholics doesn't believe that. We do welcome any strangers but we try to keep silence in the church. After the mass when we walk out of the church we do greet and meet others.
Great video! I love your channel and the approach you’re taking. I converted to Catholicism about a decade ago, and was also disheartened by the lack of greeters, and when I wrote an email to the bishop saying I wanted to convert, I had to send multiple emails, talk to people, and almost no one showed any enthusiasm. In any case, I think Catholicism is absolutely wonderful, but we absolutely should study the evangelical techniques of the LDS (and I say that as someone living in Utah, where I can view many of the things they do well).
Building bridges vs. criticizing. I appreciate that perspective. As always, I find your actual experience going to the different churches interesting !
There is a hug difference with the Catholic church. The sanctuary is beautifully done, with the stain glass windows, candles and statues. It almost looks like a museum.
I am catholic and with regards to communion, the reason why you can't take communion is because you need to go through RCIA and sacrament of confirmation. Even me and my wife were barred to take communion after we got married on civil court. The church teaching is, our marriage should be done in the church before we can take communion again - which we did after 7 years - when we redo our marriage vows in the church.
You are denied communion because you are not IN communion with the Catholic faith. The Eucharist IS the body and blood of Christ transformed by the Priest. Protestants do not accept this as a rule and so remain as non-communicants. It would help you to do a cursory catechism review, or at least read John 6:52-70 The Basilica you attended is full of strangers as well as parishioners and the peace greeting in the middle of mass is a new thing and not well received by many as it breaks focus on the Eucharist. Most parishes will have a coffee and donuts and will be much more receptive there, but the Mass is for worship. If you believed you would tangibly meet Christ there your whole perspective would change. We do believe it and with the liturgy of the word (the first half) and the consecration(second half), it would be inappropriate to focus on each other (tell that to a mother with a two year old) For the first few hundred years we had the traditions and teachings and martyrdom. Then came the organizing and preservation of the Bible which most could not read or, after Gutenberg, even afford. So the Mass, and the buildings and schools taught and preserved the faith. Only God himself could preserve an institution so full of human fraility. What you sense upon entering most Catholic churches will be the preserved Eucharist near the Tabernacle with its light. Until recent desecrations, the doors were open for all to come and pray there. A real eye opener would be for you to attend the Easter Vigil Sat. eve at a smaller church, maybe a cathedral for an ordination, or Good Friday just before noon. P.S. Taize is a retreat community in France, interdenominational, with their own services. Their music is used in Lenten prayer services in many parishes.
Thank you for your response from our Catholic perspective. However, I do have just a charitable correction on the incredible Sign of Peace (KIss of Peace actually). This is one of our Church's most ancient custom. It never left the Mass and is definitely not new. It like other important liturgical action become hidden in the old Latin Mass under centuries of added on accumulations of new prayers and gestures that pushed out important actions like the Kiss of Peace, Mass in the language of the people, the Prayers of the Faithful, and Communion under both forms of the Body and Blood of Christ. This is why the Holy Spirit guided the Church to restore the Mass to its more ancient form, with the reforms of the Second Vatican Council. As someone who started serving in 1960 as a 10-year-old, I remember listening to the priests discuss before a Latin High Mass how they were going to do the Kiss of Peace. I kind of giggled a bit when I saw how awkwardly these middle-aged men "pecked" at each other. It was so wonderful when the beautiful liturgical reforms of the 1960s restored the Sign of Peace to its rightful place at the Mass. Some people may dislike it, but I have never actually met anyone who did. Most people love it. I think what we have seen is that since Covid is that people are still kind of afraid of getting too close and touchy to people. If you remember before Covid, people genuinely shook people's hand, hugged and kissed. Finally, I would like to leave you with a beautiful scene from the account of the martyrdom of Saints Perpetua and Felicity. As they were being led out into the arena, they shared the sacred Kiss of Peace. Perpetua was an aristocrat and Felicity was a slave. Yet as they were about to die for Christ, they shared the Sacred Kiss as sisters in Christ. God Bless you!
@@tomredd9025 I didnt think that a complete history was necessary. What ever was commonly done in polite society in AD 33 probably is not necessarily appropriate in the 21st century. Covid is not the worst communicable disease that has plagued society...bubonic, and every untreatable communicatible disease would change all social greetings and niceties. Kisses and hugs imposed at odd times are no measure of respect or kindliness and felt by many to be odd in the middle of consecration. The presumption is that we are there to be socially inclusive, we are there to worship God and the sharing of th Eucharist binds us all as one body. All else has always been commonly done before or after mass...and caring for the welfare of fellow Catholics and strangers has been historic and been built into the life of the church long before it was a part of government. Nuf sed.
Catholics believe that the Eucharist is the true Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ. It is not just a symbol. Surely you can understand that it would be inappropriate to give this to someone who thinks it's just a symbol and not actually Christ Himself. And only Catholics in a state of grace can receive the Eucharist, as Paul says not to receive unworthily.
From Justin Martyr 155 AD “First Apology” chapter 66. This is why we don’t have open communion: “And this food is called among us Εὐχαριστία [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined. For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh.”
If you think you can bring your own communion, you are definitely not understanding how the Catholic church views the sacrament. While the word communion is used in Catholic and Protestant churches, the substance of what it actually means is wildly different. You are not in communion with the church in your beliefs and practices. Why would you want to participate in communion? It would be an empty gesture. Also, almost every Catholic church in my city has greeters at the door.
I don't think he wanted to commune the way Catholics would. He is used to taking the last supper in his church and so I think he meant doing his own protestant way.
Some people don’t like the sign of peace at all and think it’s too disruptive to the Mass. The keep-to-yourself vibe I think comes from a belief that socializing is for outside the worship space. Just a different attitude in general.
There is a process of preparation before one receives Holy Communion for the first time. (It is one of the Sacraments one needs to receive as a Catholic) It is dishonourable to receive Holy Communion otherwise.
The fact that you say they giving out the wafers and the wine tells me you are don't understand the eucharist and that you are not ready to partake in it. The holy Peace is not a time for hi, peace sign, it a solemn peace sign...please do more research to understand. The Faith and what we do and why we do it is much deeper than warm and fuzzy
You are right no greetings at the entrance, but priests usually shake hands with everyone at the exit and have a word with them. But among people there is no big friendship shown. We need to improve, definitely.
Hey Brooks, good to hear from ya. There was one comment you recently had that I was gonna answer and lost where (frustrating how comments can get lost). Anyway, thanks for the answers. It's strange after attending a number of Catholic masses now. The lack of social interaction inside the church negates conversation, so these terms are new. I've never heard of the term "homily" before, and I always associated "Eucharist" as Catholic communion - never heard of the "holy sacrifice" either.
Greeters? Sorry, this isn't a social club. People are preparing themselves for Mass and are silent so not to interrupt those in prayer. I doubt anyone is staring at you during communion. Most people are deep in prayer and keeping their eyes forward. Please don't judge these people who are preparing themselves for receiving the body, blood, and divinity of Christ.
Appreciate the perspective. The video was a fine line to walk, because as a Christian, you don't want to be drawing a line in the sand. I want to understand as a non-Catholic to remove any judgment that was founded from childhood biases. So looking back at the thoughts presented, I can tell I'm still wrestling with that while trying to open dialogue like this. Didn't get stares here, the first I got so many and I think that was more due to the arrangement of how the pews worked with the aisles (won't go in-depth here). But to echo the positives, there's a beauty to putting faith in action - like candles, like kneeling, like getting off your pew and walking up for the body and the blood. Non-Catholic churches don't do that, and many now don't even require getting out of your seat for communion (it's just passed around at most). With closed communion, I've had so many questions about it? For one, I question I wrestled with was Judas served at the first Lord's Supper? It seems like three gospels indicate yes, Jesus served him, but then Luke isn't so clear. So is closed communion taking that into account? Likewise, when it comes to the mass, why do some people do daily mass and others don't? There's so many questions as I even type that just keeps opening up. And you don't need to answer, at this point I'm more "typing out" loud haha.
I have so much to say. Catholic communion is different from Protestant communion. It is a Sacrament. If you’re child going to mass you are NOT allowed to receive Holy Communion until you have been properly instructed. Have you ever seen pictures of seven-year-old girls in pretty white dresses with veils and little boys in nice suits? Those children are receiving their first holy communion. Before the children make this Sacrament they must also make their first sacrament of confession. Adults that are coming into the church generally make their first communion at Easter along with two other sacraments confession and confirmation, but first they must go through a long process of catechism and be in total communion with the Catholic Church. The “wafer” as you called it- it’s proper name is the Eucharist or Host. We believe that at the consecration this wafer becomes the actual Body Blood Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ Himself only under the appearance of bread and wine. Please don’t receive this Communion on the down-low. You must respect our rules. I’ve heard stories from priests where they have found consecrated Hosts the in hymnals or in pews and that is desecration and a sacrilege. I recently heard a story from a nun who was locking up the tabernacle after Eucharistic adoration and heard the Host crying in the ciborium. She said it was because Jesus knew exactly who he was going to be received by in holy communion and some of the dwelling places would be in souls that were not in the state of grace (unconfessed or unrepentant). You mentioned The couple at the sign of peace who didn’t say anything to anyone else; I do that. I’m not trying to be unfriendly but you see, at that very moment of the sign of peace, Jesus is on the altar. Instead of giving all our attention and reverence to Him we’re exchanging hello’s. It’s just not the proper time. In a few moments we are going to be receiving God. This is the time that we should be preparing our hearts to receive Him. It should be done before the consecration. It is very common that people think Catholics could be unfriendly. We don’t have fellowship the same way as protestant Christians do. Catholic masses are meant to be quiet. When you hear people talking that is actually a big no-no. All our focus is supposed to be on Jesus and worship. We do have fellowship, it is in worshiping together at mass and helping each other to grow in faith, hope and charity. And being intercessors for each other. I’ve heard it said that the Catholic Church is a hospital for sinners. The medicine are the Sacraments - which is God’s GRACE and life in us. If you have any questions about the Catholic faith I would happy to answer them.
Communion is a serious matter in the Catholic Church. We take very seriously the words of St. Paul that if you eat the body without discerning it you are damning yourself, that is why no non catholic is allowed, but not only non catholics, but also catholics that are in a state of sin cannot go up, you should first go to confession. You could always go there and take it, no one would know, but we do it for love for your salvation, not because we do not want you to take part in it. As for the "peace be with you", it is not obligatory to salute anyone. Rather, right after this you are supposed to pray the Agnus Dei on your knees, because you are in the middle of the eucharistic celebration, so, you do not diverge from the focus in Christ in the altar to greet people around. Remember, Christ is there, in the Altar, both as the priest (in persona Christi) but also as the host (we do NOT call the host "wafers"). So, even though many people go lenghts saluting each other, that is not really what is to be done at this moment. Rather, when the priest says "ite, missa est", then it is the commandment to go and spread the news, and now, people can go and talk to each other, and to the other people outside the church about the gospel they have received. I hop I did explain some of these points, even if I am writing a year later.
Closed communion is something I struggle with, even as a Baptist-turned-Catholic. Who are we to keep people away from Christ? Where did that authority come from? The practice originated in the early church, when Christians were actively persecuted. Closed communion kept infiltrators and other bad actors from being able to identify and persecute the underground gatherings of Christians. Today, closed communion is practiced because to receive communion in the Catholic Church is to profess that you are in communion with Rome, and believe in what Catholicism teaches.
I questioned that too. And the reasons you gave are right. But, I had heard testimonies of people taking the communion without knowing they shouldn't and get converted by Christ. A Jew, some others. And Jesus said at the Last Supper: This is my body delivered for you, for the remission of sins, and literally he is delivered into the hands of his executioners later. And during the Supper, he gives a bite to Judas, knowing what he will be doing just after. Jesus died for him too. Judas just rejected his salvation.
The holy sacrifice of the mass, everyone is welcomed to attend mass (and join the Catholic Church) but please don't receive Holy Communion unless you are a baptized Catholic and have done the necessary Sacraments and are in a state of grace. I recommend traditional Latin mass when possible and to make sure the church is registered with the Archdiocese. For women I recommend veiling but it's not required. God Bless and happy you got to attend mass 🤗🙏❤
The “closed communion” is due to the fundamental split between Catholics and Protestants. Catholics believe that during the Eucharistic Prayer, the bread and wine LITERALLY transforms into the body and blood of Christ. Protestant denominations, on the other hand, believe that the action is merely symbolic. If one doesn’t truly believe this, you should not partake of Catholic communion. Similarly, a Catholic must not partake of communion of any other denomination. This is a fundamental belief of Catholicism and I believe you weren’t fair in your explanation in the video.
You were late - how do you know you didn't miss the greeters (who likely want to be inside not missing mass)? We usually socialize AFTER mass, and outside of the worship space.
You have to remember with the Catholic faith...it's old and steeped in tradition so the mass is sombre at times but still beautiful. I've had people not acknowledge me at the peace greeting even if sat in my pew...and it plays on your mind!
Welcoming at the door is missing. You are right! They begun to do that at the church I attend since a few years only. And about the couple that give the peace greeting only to each other.... It can happen to people that go the Church very rarely, not knowing what to do, really. We see a lot of that kind of behavior at Christmas or Easter mass (once-a-year-mass Christians)😅
It's interesting. In the General Instructions of the Roman Missal, the Church says this about the Sign of Peace: "As for the sign of peace to be given, the manner is to be established by Conferences of Bishops in accordance with the culture and customs of the peoples. It is, however, appropriate that each person offer the sign of peace only to those who are nearest and in a sober manner." What people forget, or never were told, is that it's a ritual gesture, to be given in the same way to everyone. So the sign of peace you offer to your spouse on your right should be no different from the sign you offer the stranger to your left.
Jesus is the head of the Catholic Church. He started it. He left St Peter in charge and guided by the Holy Spirit till today. Read the books about the Church.
I'm curious as to exactly why you would be struggling with closed communion? To participate in a church's communion rite is to give your stamp of approval to exactly what that church teaches *about* communion. You say that it's the Body and Blood of Christ. But with the exception of Lutheran and some Anglican, most Protestants actually do NOT believe it's the literal, actual, real Body and Blood of Christ. (You describe yourself as "lifelong Protestant".) So if you believe that the elements only symbolize the Body and Blood, but aren't actually the real, literal Body and Blood, why would you want to participate and thus give your "stamp of approval" to something you don't actually believe? The purpose of closed communion isn't to protect their own doctrine, it's to protect yours. Because they know you may not believe the same thing, and thus put yourself in spiritual danger by partaking. (This coming from a confessional Lutheran that practices strict closed communion.)
Christian churches all believe in the last supper, but we all view it/perform differently. So our perspectives will vary. For some churches there is an element of specific church teachings and others it's only about remembering Christ. I think the latter is what he's used too so he didn't see the problem with taking it as an outsider.
RE: CANDLES -Anything you may find used in worship in the New Testament, especially in the book of Revelation, is used in Catholic worship: vestments, lights, incense, chants, processions, and so on.
Protestants will never understand the Holy sacrifice of the Mass if they don't ask. It will all seem strange 😊 and then we have the catholic aerobics 😂 stand, sit, kneel, bow.... it's good to attend a Catholic Mass with a friend who hopefully will prepare the attendee
Nice. As a kinda, sorta, C&E Catholic, I was wondering if you’d do one. And as a somewhat introverted person, the standoffishness of Catholicism works for me; the Mormons sound engaging enough to trigger a panic attack! 😅 Although, I did visit a UU church once for fun and evidently I stuck out because the guy preaching(?) came up to me after. Friendly enough, but I was uncomfortable anyway.
the stares of sitting in the pew during the communion procession is not about 'being welcome'. The stares come from your being in the way for when the procession comes back and others have to scooch over you. you're supposed to follow the line to keep the procession running smoothly and if you're not in a state of grace, have not gone to confession, and not a baptized catholic, you cross your arms over your chest and receive a blessing from the priest. No judgement from the priest or others at all - in fact, this shows more respect towards the holy Eucharist. Much better than taking communion when you're not in a state of grace - which is a grave sin. Seriously, good catholics want you to come home - protestants are always welcome - in fact, anyone is. Even baptized catholics should not receive the living presence of Christ if they are not in a state of grace. Don't take it personally - it's not about you- it's about CHRIST. The Holy Eucharist is to be revered as the living presence of Christ. And if some catholics are jerks, well, we're not in church for them at all - it's not a social event. And the parish that I go to have greeters that say with a smile "welcome to mass". Gotta shop around to find a great parish, tbh.
There is always a misunderstanding as to why not everyone is admitted to communion. Within the catholic faith when we receive communion our 'Amen' affirms that what we are about to receive is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ and everything Holy Mother Church teaches for our salvation. If a person does not believe in the dogmas of the faith then they should not give the appearance of belief, this would be a hypocritical action not just in the catholic church but any faith.
You should go to a solemn high traditional latin Mass. Very different from the novus ordo! Also don't expect to be greeted at the door or wave and chat to randoms during mass, but stick around afterwards and I am sure there be plenty of people to talk to!
The Mass is not a dinner, it it The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Correct it is the actual Body and Blood, of Jesus Christ, I would suggest that you read up on the Catholic Faith.
Boy, you totally missed the point. Mass is not a social hour. We are not there to hang out together. Mass is not about feelings. Mass is serious business. We are there to be honestly ousr sinful selves before God to ask his forgiveness and learn and commune with him. Why dont you do some minimal study before going? Your criticisms can easily be turned back on your churches which appear to us to be social club to see and be seen. Your homilies are mostly self help pep talks that dont have much to do with Christ.
A Mass is worship. The faithful are coming for their time of worship. Not to put to fine a point on it- it is an intrusion upon strangers to invade their sacred time in the sacred space. It is a thing to pray and meditate before Mass to prepare one's self for the liturgy. Less commonly in the recent decades it is time to reflect and thank after the liturgy. Worship of Christ is not the invitation for those outside of the communion of the Church. It is the sacrificial worship OF the Church. "Evangelism" or "outreach" is for another time and place. Oddly for Christians outside the church I actually like the idea of bringing your own bread for yourself. It demonstrates that though not in full communion you are more broadly connected to the Church. I doubt that most others would appreciate that though. For those outside the Church, particularly other Christians, approaching the altar during communion then crossing your arms over your chest to indicate you are not communing is appropriate. The Priest, Deacon, or Eucharistic Minister will elevate the host before you and pronounce a blessing. For a whole host of reasons (no pun intended) it's not right to take communion from outside the Church but that is a very involved discussion.
i think its a you thing when you think people are looking at you disapproving when you dont to communion. as to not being greeted, my catholic church does greet everyone coming into the church. it may be regional but even not greeted, i always feel welcome. the church doors are open and the inside is a sense of security and peace. also prior to mass i have always been told is a time to reflect on why you are there.
Keep trying bother...you are on the right path to embracing the ONLY n TRUE CHURCH OF JESUS. Soon...after the WARNING, the whole world will be Catholic/Christian, which in Europe has always been n meant the same thing. GOD BLESS YA.
There might be ushers at some Catholic Churches but the mass isn’t about feelings or emotions. We experience the sacrifice of our Lord and Savior. 1. Cannot receive the Eucharist (Body&Blood) unless you are pure, so you need confession with a priest. Cannot bring a brown paper bag. 2. The peace be with you isn’t to make friends. It’s Incase you have any conflict and cannot give tithes or receive the Eucharist. •maybe the husband and wife had just had an argument, and wanted to squash it before partaking in the most holy of holies. Catholics evangelize in a completely different way than Protestants. That’s why we are 2000 years old and the Mennonites are 120 or Calvary Chapel is 70 or Baptist are 200.
I love the stain glass windows in the Catholic Churches and the art on the walls and the statues. We have alot of beautiful art like that in the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints. Not so much the same statues in the church but the beautiful statue of Jesus Christ in the Los Angeles Temple visitor center next to the Temple. The sacred pictures we have can be found throughout the church buildings and the house of the Lord (the Temple).
Yes, I know the respect and awe Catholics have for God. I am a baptised Catholic now worship God in the United Reformed Church. This was a lovely video. Thank you so much for reminding me of my roots. #machrinaskitchen
If you're ever near Wilmette, Illinois, you should visit the Baha'i Temple. I think they have services on Sunday mornings. There are also local Baha'i communities in all parts of the U.S. who would be happy to invite you to a Baha'i event. Baha'i is not Christian, so we don't have services like churches do. But we do have informational meetings and devotional meetings. Baha'i communities are composed of people from all religious backgrounds, all racial backgrounds, and Baha'is accept the divine foundation of all religions while being a distinct faith.
Thanks Harlan, appreciate it! I actually have visited the Baha'i Temple in Wilmette several years ago and do have a retrospective video on it. A lot of fountains and a lot of gardens from what I remember - really enjoyed the tranquility and calmness. Also was surprised how fast the afternoon devotion was! I did attend the welcome center for a presentation on the faith and learned a bit about it. It wasn't for me, but was glad to have taken a look.
Since the host becomes the actual substance of Jesus one must be in a state of grace to receive Him. There is no avenue for protestants to achieve this (Sacrament of Confession) therefore, for the salvation of your soul the church can not give Him to you. Receiving Jesus in a state of mortal sin condemns your soul (sacrilege). The church in her mercy spares you from that condemnation. Holy Communion is a sacred privilege and not a right. One other things is that when the priest says “The Body of Christ” we respond Amen. This is an ascent to all dogmas of the church including the Magisterium and The Pope. If you say Amen and don’t believe everything the church teaches, you would be lying (yet another sin). So, it is for your spiritual benefit to not receive
Some Catholic churches have greeters. But when I visit a new parish, they never once have greeted me. Human nature to only say hi to people you know, I guess. What am I? Meatloaf? Only one priest in 6 decades actually asked me my name. It can be social if you want it to be, I tend to want to blend in with the wood work and just pray.
It is commendable that you took the time to physically investigate all the churches. And it is certainly understandable that from the Protest religion mindset making a simple smorgasbord of them as options for private selection appears reasonable. It is a start. That being said, know that when you visit the 2000 year old Catholic church there are elements foreign to your experience because Luther and those protesting abuse at the same time elected to eliminate the priesthood from their company, elevated themselves as equal to the Pope [Chair of St. Peter] in discernment and authority, and also without authority eliminated 7 full books from the 1500 year old original bible. Entering a normal Catholic church you will not have a people greeter because in that setting people are not being focused on. The center of everything is the real physical presence of Christ in His eucharistic presence [Priestly consecrated unleavened bread of the Altar] and the reenactment of the last supper liturgy. The real presence is marked by a candle in a tall red glass container of some sort. For the Catholic, Christ Himself is the important thing in the church. People become focused on AFTER the Mass [Last Supper] is completed. The communion is CLOSED because with it NOT being a symbol or simple memorial … those who receive the REAL body and blood are required to adhere to and believe in all the teachings of Christ; including his new priesthood and the authority He gave them. The tower at Holy Hill you climbed for a view is a sort of tourist attraction … it is not directly involved in anything important in church activities on site. The 12 outside statues were Stations of the Cross and points of Christ’s passion used for prayer. Tradition says His mother Mary instituted the prayers and format after the death of her son and set it up behind the house of St. John where she then resided. The next step in your examination is to research the Early Church fathers documents and those of the saints prior to 1000 AD. The original church is evidenced there in clear format. Walking backwards in time 500 years .. almost all of the offshoots of Roman Catholicism we see today cease to exist; Mormon, 7th day Advantest, Baptist, Anglican, Methodist, Scientology, etc.
Insofar as giving the sign of peace - a good friend of mine's wife was going thru chemo for leukemia - we normally even hug at mass/peace, but with covid still lingering they had no choice but to isolate and not touch anybody (exchange handshakes) except her husband (since they live together), he had to isolate too for her protection; so don't be so quick to judge others who might have a legit reason to not touch - simply wish them well/peace visually! ;)
Actually, as far as not being able to receive Communion in a Catholic Church. Please thank Luther, Calvin, and Zwingli for that. For the first 1,500 years of Christianity, this would have been a non-issue. Everyone, with very few minor exemptions, believed that the Eucharist was truly the Body and Blood of Christ (pretty explicit in the Bible). However, with the Protestant Protest, Luther basically opened the floodgates to anything goes as far as belief. Luther more or less believed in the True Presence, though his thinking was a bit muddled as is still reflected in the various Lutheran denominations. However, Calvin, Zwingli and others went off the rails with innovative theories about how the presence is "spiritual," "symbolic," or "whatever." The Church had to protect its ancient Apostolic teachings from these new teachers with their new ideas. It only makes sense to not allow Protestants who follows these new teachings of men to receive the precious gift of Communion. I might add though that the Church does allow members of the other ancient Apostolic churches with Apostolic succession to receive communion if their bishop allows it. This is because Catholics share their same beliefs, and their sacraments are as valid as the Catholic Church. The Churches that may receive Communion are the Orthodox Church, The Orthodox Church of the East, and the Assyrian Church. Again, I would like to stress that this is if their bishops approve. As far as the Sign of Peace, since Covid, people are not very touchy feely. They are still afraid. In my Church, at the Pre-Covid Sign of Peace people were hugging, vigorously shaking hands, and kissing their family members. It is going to take more years to get back to what it was before. May God Bless you in your Work!
Hello. Have you ever visited a United Methodist Church? I've found the UMC to be the best of both worlds when it comes to traditional and contemporary. Most churches have two separate services. One traditional and one modern. I love that we have an open communion where everyone is welcome at Jesus table. I've also found the UMC to be the best theologically as both evangelical and mainline and high emphasis on grace. I'm like you. I don't get exclusion.
For us the communion is the body and blood of Christ. It is sacred. The True presence. This is not true for Protestants. Therefore because of the sacredness we cannot expose it to those who do share that sacredness.
There are to be no ushers pointing the faithful toward reception of Holy Communion. This is the teaching of past popes. It's to avoid the unworthy from receiving - in a state of mortal sin and a lack of fasting.
The reason you cannot go to communion as a non Catholic is this: We really believe that Christ is truly present in the Eucharist. You don't. So you don't really know what is going on and you don't really understand the gravity of receiving Christ in this form. In the Catholic faith, we require that you be in a "state of grace" to receive Christ's body and blood. Therefore you must go to communion and confess your sins before receiving. You did not do that, you didn't even know about it. The thing is, we take this very seriously. We are being joined with God in the Eucharist, and you do not do this light heartedly or as a matter of course. You compared it to not being able to eat at someone's house, but it is far more than that. Read Scott Hahn, a prominent Protestant theologian and minister who eventually decided to join the Catholic church. His books are all about overcoming each of his objections. Also, I doubt that you were being judged that much by not going to communion. I returned to the church after a long time of being away, and I did not go to communion for about a year. I refused to because I had not been to confession. Nobody looked much at me. Today, almost everyone goes to communion, but that is a recent failure in teaching the young Catholics the faith. Many Catholics do not realize they are not in a state of grace. Modern teachers tell them that "God loves everyone, and everyone is invited" but that is just lousy teaching. Many go simply so they do not have to have everyone climb over them while they are sitting. Hopefully the church will fix this in the coming years.
there's something about being Catholic, you don't learn by attending one Mass, but by attending a bunch of Masses. That it is not about you. Mass is to worship, if you are bored, that's your issue , bad sermon, get over yourself, choir out of tune, you volunteer to sing, etc etc quiet is good for the soul
12:23 when he says "do comunion by myself" he thinks communion is only vertical between Christ and the individual; which it is. but it's also horizontal among all the believers participating. if you put those together it would look something like this ✝. you could also receive the host by mail and eat it at your better convenience. but it doesn't work like that. that's the main issue with protestantism. it tends to the atomization of the faith. if you don't like congregation. you break away and start a new congregation that suits you. instead of making the effort to conform to tradition and the community around you.
because in a way, it isnt "just" dinner (to borrow the metaphor). yes, ur invited into the home, but, not to the gold in the safe...? if you know what i mean? the treasure, well, it's like the Holy of Holies? (and well, some of my protestant friends dont believe that that, tiny, humble, defenseless little bread IS Jesus Christ, (body, blood, soul, And Divinity) Holy Trinity, Himself) - and, if we just freely give it out without the disposition, the faith, it's kinda like giving your precious child to just anybody. You know? Hence, the closed communion. As for proper disposition and going to confession before receiving, for a lot of "catholics", it's (sigh) not ideal... hence, the many sacrilege and that passage of St Paul's letter to receive Him in a "worthy" / "proper" manner (i.e. going to confession before communion) metaphor being, the wedding prep before the wedding night. but kudos on you for searching for God. other people dont bother. Love and respect, brother!
I watched one of your videos you received the Holy Communion,you don't have to ,is not hate.But you have to be baptized , go for catechism class, and be in a state of grace, that means you have to go for confession cos you're receiving Christ and not a symbol of christ.why you have to be in a state of grace is because, you don't receive a king in a filthy environment.
You are so Protestant!😊Catholic Mass isnt about the individual but the sacrifice the Priest will offer to God for us and total praise and reverence to God. You can glad hand and talk after Mass outside of the Church. Communion is only for people in the state of grace ...you are stating that you believe it is the Body and Blood soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ. Most Protestants dont believe the true presence of Jesus. People may look thinking "Oh a visitor" ...but arent concerned with why you arent going to Communion. Even Catholics arent suppose to receive communion unless they are in the state of grace. Or have eaten food within an hour of Mass. Or came late after the Gospel. Its not about good homilies but hearing the word of God before the sacrifice. Our Church stopped shaking hands for the Sign of Peace..that was brought in after the 70's to disruptive . Some people still do it ...but resepct the people that are deep in prayer and dont shake hands. Have you gone to a Latin Mass?
The Eucharist is Holy and Sacred when we take comunión we must do with reverence, kneel and take in your mouth. Jesus is alive in the Eucharist. I have take some pictures in 2021 it was a procession with the Eucharist in the picture shows a light came from heaven and shine in the Eucharist. In 2022 the sun was in the the middle on my street and look like the Eucharist I experience something in my heart and body it was amazing. I took a picture and shows a path to the sun, this year 2023 I visited the Blessed Sacrament and took a picture it shows the face of Jesus and blood in the Eucharist. You should read John 6:32 and verse 55.
Matt 10 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. The Lord's commandments are not burdomesome though he warned us that following him brings with it enemies. We are told to love our enemies. Love them by helping see the truth of God's will. If they don't listen move on. Abiding with those that are in disobedience is not loving to them, you, or the Lord.
Remember the wedding feast where one was not dressed and was thrown out? In those days the groom provided clothes ( freely )for the guests - the correlation is to baptism and our faith which is provided freely by God. There is no excuse for him who refuses the gift. He will be thrown out where there is whining and the gnashing of teeth.
I realize this is a year old, and I just viewed your video, but. On communion, our Catholic faith has strict rules, and I'm sorry you feel the way you do, but to e body of Christ you must be pure. No one that hasn't gone to confession can't take communion unless you're on your death bed. I can't see everyone in Church going to confession. If they take communion without confession, well, it's a mortal sin! Unfortunately, my sister in law is protostant and is still clueless after 30 years. I've read the hate book she reads about us. It's beyond evil and ignorant! Years ago, her nephew, about 12 years old, said to me, thinking I was protestant. Did you know Catholics sacrifice a baby at the altar? I said I'm Catholic, and we only sacrifice a baby a week out of the month and on Holy days of obligation. Wish you could have seen the look on his face. It was truly priceless! 😂...😮 🤭 👀
You're not disinvited from the Lord's table. The reason non Catholics should not receive communion is more so out of respect for your nonbelief. As Catholics, we believe the Eucharist is the literal body of Christ. When the priest holds up the Eucharist and says "the body of Christ", we say amen and receive the Lord. If you don't believe in the transubstantiation of the host, then you shouldn't be saying 'amen' to that and receiving it. It's not that protestants aren't good enough, it's that the church doesn't want you to sin by saying amen, and partaking in a sacrament you don't believe in. As far as the social interaction goes, Catholics believe the Mass is a sacrifice, not a social hour. We are there to worship, not socialize. Every Parish has groups that people can and do join, Bible studies, womens groiups, prayer groups etc, but that is done outside of the actual Mass, which should be reserved for worship.
Sorry that you felt you are not welcome to Holy communion. Of course when you come to believe all that Catholic church believes you will be in full communion with the Lord and the His Church.
I'm lds, and my wife grew up Catholic. She sees similarities between what we do in the temple and what is done in mass. I wish pur church would do more with Palm Sunday, Thursday evening, Good Friday like they do for Holy Week or just restore passover already, Ezekiel wrote that it would be restored and we brag about Jesus, Moses, Elias and Elijah coming to the Kirtland Temple on Easter/Passover in 1836 but don't do much with it besides that unless it happens to be a General Conference weekend.
You cannot receive Communion because you are not in Communion with the Church, established by Jesus Christ. If you truly believe it is the Body and Blood of Christ, then you become Catholic. Catholic Communion is not the Lord’s Supper. It is not a symbol, it is transubstantiated into the substance of Christ Body Blood Soul and Divinity.
Thanks for watching the video and hope you took away something positive.
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What denomination are you?
I became Catholic five years ago, having been raised a Jehovah’s Witness. I had been inactive with any faith for a couple decades, although my theological beliefs were still rooted in the JW teachings. When I started going to Mass with my wife, a cradle Catholic, I actually appreciated not being “love bombed” when I walked through the door but my wife did enjoy the sheer panic and uncomfortable look on my face every time peace be with you rolled around as most in the pews reach out 360 degrees.
One of the things that drew me in was the respect for the Eucharist and the need to have confessed your sins, to be free from sin, before taking in something so Holy. I really felt at Mass it was the first time I was worshiping God, not just learning about Him or enjoying the company of others, but getting on my knees and worshiping. That really pulled me in and started me towards reading the church fathers and doctrines which convinced me I should be Catholic.
Thanks for sharing your journey, I’ve really enjoyed learning about how others worship!
And that’s what it’s about if more people really did their research on the religion than they will see it’s the church Jesus built, it’s the truth
I think the reason maybe you aren't getting greeted is because in Catholic mass/Orthodox Liturgy, the focus is on the holy sacrifice so people don't really chit chat. BUT, after the mass/liturgy, they almost always have potlucks or some kind of gathering around food and beverage where everyone gets to know one another. So you should look into the gatherings after mass and surely you will be able to get to know people of that Parish.
That's good to know. I mentioned with the "monk church" a few weeks ago, a gentleman invited me for coffee and donuts with other parish members. I can't say enough how warm that welcome was and to speak with other members. That goes such a long, positive way.
You are correct!
Also try visiting a Traditional Latin Mass. There are two Traditional Latin Masses. Check out the High Mass version in Latin!
The Mass is not about fellowship, though I do wish more parishes had greeters at the doors for visitors and new people to connect with questions etc. The Mass is also a communal gathering of Christ’s Visible Church on Earth. The Mass is not a service. It is His Church gathering to re-present to the Father the sacrifice of the Son for our Salvation. The Mass is A PRAYER prayed by His Body to the Father in Jesus, with Jesus, and through Jesus in the power of the Holy Spirit.
Yes, exactly.
The Mass/Eucharist is a solemn, holy sacrament. It's not for socializing. I always felt very peaceful at Mass. Very different from the social Protestant services I have attended.
FYI, the 1 hour Catholic mass is always 'quiet and reverant' and singularly Christ focused. Parish picnics etc are where the kegs come out (literaly!) and Catholic fellowship is celebrated, but not in the worship space!!
The proper place for each place and thing.
Also, a tip from a life-long Catholic - when you remain in the pew during communion, nobody is judging, they are charitably allowing you to go in your turn ( before them) - simply nod or point for them to go on, as I have done many times when I myself was not properly disposed to receive communion.
Another lifetime protestant here. But....in the 1970s we traveled with a Catholic priest and we ministered with him all over the world - an eye-opening experience to realize the depth of the Catholic awe and respect they have for God.
it's a deep religion - you could study it forever!
@shhh spot on.
I am a revert to Catholicism after 30 years as an evangelical. I think there’s no way that you can appreciate what you are seeing without studying first. For example you see a statue of Mary and immediately you think idolatry. If you studied beforehand you would at least know why Catholics pray to Mary and the Saints. You might still think it’s wrong but you would have some understanding of why we do it.
The thing about Catholic mass you need to understand:
We believe the Eucharist that has been consecrated is the actual body and blood of Christ. This doesn’t mean literally transformed. We know it has the appearance of bread and wine and tastes as such. But through the power of God the substance of that eucharist is the body and blood of Christ through the power of God.
That means our building where we have church, actually shelters the body and blood of Christ as long as their are consecrated eucharists inside. So when you are in a building with a king inside you are expected to show reverence to your king when in his house. We are preparing for the Eucharistic literature before mass starts … not really a time to be acting like it’s a party or some grand social event with your friends. If you were to go to Buckingham Palace to meet a monarch … would you be loud boisterous and talking and chatting with your other friends who were waiting there? Or would you feel compelled to respect the palace for what it is … the kings house … not a frat house, a place that demands respect and reverence.
There are social rooms in some church’s that you can act as social as you want. But the foyer area is expected to stay quiet before mass as people in the nave are preparing themselves for mass and it’s out of respect for the holiness of that area you are discouraged from making noise that could disturb those who are praying to God getting themselves ready for what is to come.
We also when entering the church to go sit down … we bow to where the consecrated eucharist is stored … a sign of respect for the king to bow down to where he is. The Eucharist are kept in the tabernacle and there will be a red candle by it. When that candle is lit, it’s the signal to tell congregants that their are consecrated eucharist inside.
The entire mass when it starts is to prepare ourselves by asking for forgiveness for the sins we have done, hearing readings from OT, epistles and the gospel that all convey the same theme (typological topic). There is also a psalm that we sing which is also aligned with the theme.
The Eucharist when it is consecrated … Christ warned you have to be aligned with him (state of mortal sin) to receive it without being damned as Christ was trying to warn Judas. This is why we do not give the Eucharist to non-Catholics. You can’t receive it if you aren’t obedient enough to be formerly made a part of the church Christ started (viewed as a mortal sin - if you don’t see the Catholic Church as worth being a part of … to receive a consecrated eucharist with that in mind is an additional insult to Christ). And we make sure adults who want to join are put through RCIA so that they are able to learn what the church believes, what we do, allow the person to ask questions and get answers … so that they understand what it is to be Catholic and so you understand how to conduct yourself. There are also people who are not Catholic who go up to get a eucharist so that they can carry it outside of the church to desecrate it … even to do black magic on it. The priest watches to ensure people are eating it near him and will stop someone they see who hasn’t consumed theirs. People who shouldn’t get the eucharist can still get it and leave the building with it or consume it … but it’s not the priest you have to worry about … it’s God and you can’t pull a fast one on him. These are the rules the priests try to enforce as this is what the apostles taught.
People who were looking at you, not judging you for sitting instead of going up for a blessing. You may have thought so but that’s not what they said to you. People in your pew that had to squeeze by you … they may have felt “great a choke point sitting in the way because they don’t want a blessing … why won’t they go get a blessing … do they hate God so much they can’t even do that?” … but that’s the most. Many people in my church are disabled so they can’t get up and go … even if they look mobile. And no one disapproves.
David, As a Catholic I do understand all the different biases and complaints from non-Catholic visitors. I think the one that stands out in my mind was a visiting Protestant who had to continuously make a point "Where's the bibles?" This is actually funny because the entire mass is scripture! People get too hung up on what they are used to and do not really listen, not to mention that Catholic churches have the missals with the readings in them for each week. It was just their way of trying to debunk the celebration.
Funny that you made a point about eucharist, too. Remember how our Lord fed thousands while preaching on the mount? I am sure that was quite efficiently done! And the other point about not being able to receive the body and blood, or the meal after having been invited to the celebration... Keep in mind that none of us will enter heaven without first being purified. Our Catholic phrase is "You must be in communion to receive communion. Additionally, the "wafer" is actually the body of Christ - true presence! It looks like a wafer but is consecrated and becomes the body of Christ, just as Jesus did at the Last Supper.
Most of all, remember that Protestants were the protestors of the original church, which never made sense to me. Jesus established His church, which we believe IS the Catholic church. If you protest and leave Jesus' church...Why would you?
Peace on your journey!
The whole Mass is scripture. It’s the living word.
I can appreciate the podcast trying to be respectful of religions visted, but this video reveals an extremely shallow understanding of catholicism. He did not observe genuflecting and the sign of the crross on entering the pews, which is particular to catholics. The eucharist and heaven meeting the church on earth is central to going to mass.
Born, raised and still LDS and I have loved my visits to Roman and several Eastern Catholic churches. Even the all Latin version with the priest facing away from the congregation like a cosmic bus driver directing us outward to eternity. Thanks for sharing insights from your visit.
I like your metaphor of the "cosmic bus driver." I have often felt that way myself!
that's a really cool metaphor!
I been a catholic all my life, like you and appreciate you saying is the catholic faith is how greatful I am for what Jesus did for us. When I go. I never go for others. I am there for Jesus. I dont need people to try to make me feel welcome. Im there to see the humbled Jesus. The meaning of the gospel. Most priest are there to read the Bible. Communion is Holy. We treat Every thing about God as Holy. We make people understand their sins and unholy ways. To take confession seriously your going to meet God. AN ALMIGHTY GOD. A HOLY GOD. Im greatful for the teaching ways. For me its a form of respect. God will always be first.
One of the reasons I like being Catholic is that I can remain anonymous when going to Mass at a different parish when I travel.
I am an introvert myself and when I go to a Protestant service with a friend. They ask if there are any newcomers and I have to stand and say hello. i know they are trying to be nice but I do not care for it..
As a lifelong Catholic, I’m not surprised at some of your comments. It’s funny how many Catholics go to church and say the same things you do. Going to church isn’t about what you get, it’s about praising Jesus and his sacrifice, period. All I can say about fallen away Catholics is, if they only knew what they had, they would’ve never left.
Devout Protestants become Catholics and lukewarm Catholics become Protestants….or I guess atheist in this dudes life 😂
Hi David, I really enjoyed the video and you brought up some very good points. I am a Cradle Catholic that reverted to the faith a year ago. A big reason why I 'stopped' being Catholic was my lack of knowledge about the reason there are all the rituals etc. in the Church. I want to address some of the points you mentioned to give you a reason (hopefully in a nice way 😬)
Your first point was about the silence in the Church. Because of our belief in the True Presence of Christ in the Eucharist (kept in the Tabernacle) a certain amount of reverence is required and so silence is encouraged. People are often Praying in the Church aswell which is why it is usually silent and probably why no-one greeted you when you entered.
The sermon... Some sermons are pretty bad in Catholic Masses these days and a reason for that is most probably a lack of preparation and 'effort' put into them.
The reason for no reaction when the Priest said he had been re-assigned was because during the Mass, there is usually silence kept unless the Laity are meant to speak during the Liturgy e.g. a response.
I would recommend reading a book called "Rome Sweet Home" By Dr Scott Hahn, a former protestant. He explains his conversion story, which is very biblical and everything is laid out very logically.
The point about Mary is a common one and again I would recommend Dr Scott Hahn. This is a podcast but it breaks down Mary in the Bible (open.spotify.com/episode/7EQAbWT7GNpRUe5e9frArL?si=5422e522a9d64bb6)
The point about not being to receive Holy Communion is a challenging topic. Because we (Catholics) believe that the celebration of the Eucharist is a sign of the reality of the oneness of faith, life, and worship, members of those churches with whom we are not yet fully united are usually not allowed to receive Our Lord. We also believe in the True Presence of Jesus's Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity in the Hosts, and so (I am not sure exactly what you believe) but for someone outside of the faith to receive Our Lord would be going against that doctrine. Again I would recommend "Rome Sweet Home by Scott Hahn" Another reason for this is that it is the Holy Sacrament. To receive the Holy Sacrament you have to be in a state of grace (I am not accusing you of mortal sin but you have to be) as shown in 1 Cor. 11:28-29 where it shows this need. The need for Confession is show in an early Church Document from around 70AD, the Didache witnesses to this practice of the early Church. “But first make confession of your faults, so that your sacrifice may be a pure one” (Didache 14). (if you have any further question on this I would recommend searching for Bishop Robert Barron, Ascension presents or Breaking in the Habit on youtube).
Ive already spoken to not being greeted and the silence at the door. The Sign of Peace is often just very short and brief and again during the Liturgy is a place where no-one strikes up conversations. A place where you find more social interaction would be after Masses. You will find this more in community Parishes after you have established yourself there and become a 'regular' people will start to talk to you.
Again I would highly recommend the book 'Rome Sweet Home' by Scott Hahn.
Thank you for the video it was a very good watch
May God Bless and Keep You.
Yours in Christ,
Francis
I would also heavily agree with @Brooks Durham
I would also recommend another source is Pints With Aquinas and GabiAfterHours
I'm LDS and we have a very similar view of reverence. We try to be quiet and reflective. We also don't believe in having loud instruments. And we would agree with your reasons as well; you try to be quiet to show respect to God and also to allow others to pray.
To Catholics the focus is on the Eucharist/Jesus , and worshipping Him. The mass is not about us nor is it a social event. It is very solemn, holy and personal.
Hey Susan, a little late on my reply, but appreciate you watching and helping an outsider like me to understand it better. Never looked at it in that light.
@fedko - spot on. The Source and the Summit of the Catholic faith is the Mass - the Once and Only Sacrifice of our Lord at Calvary and represented to the Heavenly Father in atonement for our sins and the sins of the whole world fullfilng the prophecy of Malachi 1:11 - My name will be great among the nations, from where the sun rises to where it sets. In every place “incense and pure offerings” will be brought to me, because my name will be great among the nations,” says the LORD Almighty.
Too be a student of history is to cease being a Protestant- St John Henry Newman.
Pax Christi
Yeah from the priest to the procession and the music it all has deep meaning and very solemn and serious. Priest isn’t making it about him, music isn’t your local Christian rapper it’s songs thatve been passed down for hundreds or thousands of years. It’s funny what turns off some people and exactly what turns others onto something.
The reason why Catholics don't greed and chat before going into mass is because most of us are fasting before going to church in order to take the holy communion and contemplating on the week ahead and our sins. We go to pray and be in God's grace before communion. After mass we do socialize and have coffee and pastry.
Again in Catholic church, during mass,we don't concentrate on people, we only concentrate on the sacrifice being made at the altar. After mass you can join societies in church,you will get to meet people, usually some persons go home immediately after mass while some stay back to pray, in other not to feel left out ,you join any sodality of you choice, Catholic has a lot of members you can't really know all and they won't really notice if you're new unless you isolate your self staying at the back.
I am shocked you got so many stares when you didn't go up for the Eucharist. I say this because, even if you are Catholic, you should not receive the Eucharist if you have not done a valid confession in awhile/have mortal sin you haven't confessed. When I got mass I see many people who do not go up for Eucharist and it is not a big deal at all. Just surprising people were looking at you.
Not for this one - no stares here. First Catholic visit though, I was right in the center of the worship area and felt SO uncomfortable with the glances and stares. After that, every Catholic mass I'd attend would be sitting as far back as possible. Even then (I still remember my time at a downtown Milwaukee basilica), I'd still get some curious looks from people who were seated near the back. Still, was so curious about it and couldn't put my finger on why.
We don't chitchat during Mass or waiting for the Mass to begin because the act of reverence is important also the Eucharistic Host only can receive by those who practicing Catholic (truly Believe that the Eucharist is the Body of Christ not just a symbol) and in the state of grace (Sacrament Confession)
In catholic faith, christ is present in the Eucharist and before you receive it ,you have to accept all the doctrines of the church.and you have to go catechism before you receive the holy Communion and that is what every Catholic has to do and you have to be baptized in Catholic. Before receiving is compulsory you're in State of grace.
Why the non Catholics cannot receive the communion is we believe it is truly The Body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ. The non Catholics doesn't believe that. We do welcome any strangers but we try to keep silence in the church. After the mass when we walk out of the church we do greet and meet others.
Great video! I love your channel and the approach you’re taking.
I converted to Catholicism about a decade ago, and was also disheartened by the lack of greeters, and when I wrote an email to the bishop saying I wanted to convert, I had to send multiple emails, talk to people, and almost no one showed any enthusiasm.
In any case, I think Catholicism is absolutely wonderful, but we absolutely should study the evangelical techniques of the LDS (and I say that as someone living in Utah, where I can view many of the things they do well).
Building bridges vs. criticizing.
I appreciate that perspective.
As always, I find your actual experience going to the different churches interesting !
There is a hug difference with the Catholic church. The sanctuary is beautifully done, with the stain glass windows, candles and statues. It almost looks like a museum.
I am catholic and with regards to communion, the reason why you can't take communion is because you need to go through RCIA and sacrament of confirmation. Even me and my wife were barred to take communion after we got married on civil court. The church teaching is, our marriage should be done in the church before we can take communion again - which we did after 7 years - when we redo our marriage vows in the church.
You are denied communion because you are not IN communion with the Catholic faith. The Eucharist IS the body and blood of Christ transformed by the Priest. Protestants do not accept this as a rule and so remain as non-communicants. It would help you to do a cursory catechism review, or at least read John 6:52-70
The Basilica you attended is full of strangers as well as parishioners and the peace greeting in the middle of mass is a new thing and not well received by many as it breaks focus on the Eucharist. Most parishes will have a coffee and donuts and will be much more receptive there, but the Mass is for worship. If you believed you would tangibly meet Christ there your whole perspective would change. We do believe it and with the liturgy of the word (the first half) and the consecration(second half), it would be inappropriate to focus on each other (tell that to a mother with a two year old)
For the first few hundred years we had the traditions and teachings and martyrdom. Then came the organizing and preservation of the Bible which most could not read or, after Gutenberg, even afford. So the Mass, and the buildings and schools taught and preserved the faith. Only God himself could preserve an institution so full of human fraility. What you sense upon entering most Catholic churches will be the preserved Eucharist near the Tabernacle with its light. Until recent desecrations, the doors were open for all to come and pray there. A real eye opener would be for you to attend the Easter Vigil Sat. eve at a smaller church, maybe a cathedral for an ordination, or Good Friday just before noon. P.S. Taize is a retreat community in France, interdenominational, with their own services. Their music is used in Lenten prayer services in many parishes.
Thank you for your response from our Catholic perspective. However, I do have just a charitable correction on the incredible Sign of Peace (KIss of Peace actually). This is one of our Church's most ancient custom. It never left the Mass and is definitely not new. It like other important liturgical action become hidden in the old Latin Mass under centuries of added on accumulations of new prayers and gestures that pushed out important actions like the Kiss of Peace, Mass in the language of the people, the Prayers of the Faithful, and Communion under both forms of the Body and Blood of Christ. This is why the Holy Spirit guided the Church to restore the Mass to its more ancient form, with the reforms of the Second Vatican Council. As someone who started serving in 1960 as a 10-year-old, I remember listening to the priests discuss before a Latin High Mass how they were going to do the Kiss of Peace. I kind of giggled a bit when I saw how awkwardly these middle-aged men "pecked" at each other. It was so wonderful when the beautiful liturgical reforms of the 1960s restored the Sign of Peace to its rightful place at the Mass. Some people may dislike it, but I have never actually met anyone who did. Most people love it. I think what we have seen is that since Covid is that people are still kind of afraid of getting too close and touchy to people. If you remember before Covid, people genuinely shook people's hand, hugged and kissed. Finally, I would like to leave you with a beautiful scene from the account of the martyrdom of Saints Perpetua and Felicity. As they were being led out into the arena, they shared the sacred Kiss of Peace. Perpetua was an aristocrat and Felicity was a slave. Yet as they were about to die for Christ, they shared the Sacred Kiss as sisters in Christ. God Bless you!
@@tomredd9025 I didnt think that a complete history was necessary. What ever was commonly done in polite society in AD 33 probably is not necessarily appropriate in the 21st century. Covid is not the worst communicable disease that has plagued society...bubonic, and every untreatable communicatible disease would change all social greetings and niceties. Kisses and hugs imposed at odd times are no measure of respect or kindliness and felt by many to be odd in the middle of consecration. The presumption is that we are there to be socially inclusive, we are there to worship God and the sharing of th Eucharist binds us all as one body. All else has always been commonly done before or after mass...and caring for the welfare of fellow Catholics and strangers has been historic and been built into the life of the church long before it was a part of government. Nuf sed.
Catholics believe that the Eucharist is the true Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ. It is not just a symbol. Surely you can understand that it would be inappropriate to give this to someone who thinks it's just a symbol and not actually Christ Himself. And only Catholics in a state of grace can receive the Eucharist, as Paul says not to receive unworthily.
It's not a wafer .IT'S THE LIVE BODY OF CHRIST.after the conscreation
I have never been to a Catholic mass service... Learnt something new
Search on Traditional Latin Mass. 😊
From Justin Martyr 155 AD “First Apology” chapter 66. This is why we don’t have open communion: “And this food is called among us Εὐχαριστία [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined. For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh.”
If you think you can bring your own communion, you are definitely not understanding how the Catholic church views the sacrament. While the word communion is used in Catholic and Protestant churches, the substance of what it actually means is wildly different. You are not in communion with the church in your beliefs and practices. Why would you want to participate in communion? It would be an empty gesture. Also, almost every Catholic church in my city has greeters at the door.
I don't think he wanted to commune the way Catholics would. He is used to taking the last supper in his church and so I think he meant doing his own protestant way.
Some people don’t like the sign of peace at all and think it’s too disruptive to the Mass. The keep-to-yourself vibe I think comes from a belief that socializing is for outside the worship space. Just a different attitude in general.
There is a process of preparation before one receives Holy Communion for the first time. (It is one of the Sacraments one needs to receive as a Catholic) It is dishonourable to receive Holy Communion otherwise.
The fact that you say they giving out the wafers and the wine tells me you are don't understand the eucharist and that you are not ready to partake in it. The holy Peace is not a time for hi, peace sign, it a solemn peace sign...please do more research to understand. The Faith and what we do and why we do it is much deeper than warm and fuzzy
Only two faiths have ever captivated me: LDS Church and Catholic Church. Protestantism always felt like a DIY experience.
I'm LDS and so thank you! I feel a kinship to Catholics and really admire them as well.
LDS IS NOT EVEN CHRISTIAN
@@kragar4 Ok
You are right no greetings at the entrance, but priests usually shake hands with everyone at the exit and have a word with them. But among people there is no big friendship shown. We need to improve, definitely.
The focus of mass is the holy sacrifice. and it is called a homily not a sermon.
Hey Brooks, good to hear from ya. There was one comment you recently had that I was gonna answer and lost where (frustrating how comments can get lost). Anyway, thanks for the answers.
It's strange after attending a number of Catholic masses now. The lack of social interaction inside the church negates conversation, so these terms are new. I've never heard of the term "homily" before, and I always associated "Eucharist" as Catholic communion - never heard of the "holy sacrifice" either.
The reason you did not recieved the body is because most churches don't belive it's the body ( live) of Christ
Greeters? Sorry, this isn't a social club. People are preparing themselves for Mass and are silent so not to interrupt those in prayer.
I doubt anyone is staring at you during communion. Most people are deep in prayer and keeping their eyes forward. Please don't judge these people who are preparing themselves for receiving the body, blood, and divinity of Christ.
Appreciate the perspective. The video was a fine line to walk, because as a Christian, you don't want to be drawing a line in the sand. I want to understand as a non-Catholic to remove any judgment that was founded from childhood biases.
So looking back at the thoughts presented, I can tell I'm still wrestling with that while trying to open dialogue like this. Didn't get stares here, the first I got so many and I think that was more due to the arrangement of how the pews worked with the aisles (won't go in-depth here). But to echo the positives, there's a beauty to putting faith in action - like candles, like kneeling, like getting off your pew and walking up for the body and the blood. Non-Catholic churches don't do that, and many now don't even require getting out of your seat for communion (it's just passed around at most).
With closed communion, I've had so many questions about it? For one, I question I wrestled with was Judas served at the first Lord's Supper? It seems like three gospels indicate yes, Jesus served him, but then Luke isn't so clear. So is closed communion taking that into account? Likewise, when it comes to the mass, why do some people do daily mass and others don't? There's so many questions as I even type that just keeps opening up. And you don't need to answer, at this point I'm more "typing out" loud haha.
I admire Catholics for being so respectful to deity
I have so much to say. Catholic communion is different from Protestant communion. It is a Sacrament. If you’re child going to mass you are NOT allowed to receive Holy Communion until you have been properly instructed. Have you ever seen pictures of seven-year-old girls in pretty white dresses with veils and little boys in nice suits? Those children are receiving their first holy communion. Before the children make this Sacrament they must also make their first sacrament of confession. Adults that are coming into the church generally make their first communion at Easter along with two other sacraments confession and confirmation, but first they must go through a long process of catechism and be in total communion with the Catholic Church. The “wafer” as you called it- it’s proper name is the Eucharist or Host. We believe that at the consecration this wafer becomes the actual Body Blood Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ Himself only under the appearance of bread and wine. Please don’t receive this Communion on the down-low. You must respect our rules.
I’ve heard stories from priests where they have found consecrated Hosts the in hymnals or in pews and that is desecration and a sacrilege. I recently heard a story from a nun who was locking up the tabernacle after Eucharistic adoration and heard the Host crying in the ciborium. She said it was because Jesus knew exactly who he was going to be received by in holy communion and some of the dwelling places would be in souls that were not in the state of grace (unconfessed or unrepentant).
You mentioned The couple at the sign of peace who didn’t say anything to anyone else; I do that. I’m not trying to be unfriendly but you see, at that very moment of the sign of peace, Jesus is on the altar. Instead of giving all our attention and reverence to Him we’re exchanging hello’s. It’s just not the proper time. In a few moments we are going to be receiving God. This is the time that we should be preparing our hearts to receive Him. It should be done before the consecration.
It is very common that people think Catholics could be unfriendly. We don’t have fellowship the same way as protestant Christians do. Catholic masses are meant to be quiet. When you hear people talking that is actually a big no-no. All our focus is supposed to be on Jesus and worship. We do have fellowship, it is in worshiping together at mass and helping each other to grow in faith, hope and charity. And being intercessors for each other.
I’ve heard it said that the Catholic Church is a hospital for sinners. The medicine are the Sacraments - which is God’s GRACE and life in us.
If you have any questions about the Catholic faith I would happy to answer them.
Also if the adult being brought into the church has not been baptized he receives that as well at Easter time. Just wanted to clarify.
Communion is a serious matter in the Catholic Church. We take very seriously the words of St. Paul that if you eat the body without discerning it you are damning yourself, that is why no non catholic is allowed, but not only non catholics, but also catholics that are in a state of sin cannot go up, you should first go to confession.
You could always go there and take it, no one would know, but we do it for love for your salvation, not because we do not want you to take part in it.
As for the "peace be with you", it is not obligatory to salute anyone. Rather, right after this you are supposed to pray the Agnus Dei on your knees, because you are in the middle of the eucharistic celebration, so, you do not diverge from the focus in Christ in the altar to greet people around. Remember, Christ is there, in the Altar, both as the priest (in persona Christi) but also as the host (we do NOT call the host "wafers"). So, even though many people go lenghts saluting each other, that is not really what is to be done at this moment. Rather, when the priest says "ite, missa est", then it is the commandment to go and spread the news, and now, people can go and talk to each other, and to the other people outside the church about the gospel they have received.
I hop I did explain some of these points, even if I am writing a year later.
Go find a traditional Latin mass. I’m a convert. I love it. Man I wish I could have been there to explain everything.
Closed communion is something I struggle with, even as a Baptist-turned-Catholic. Who are we to keep people away from Christ? Where did that authority come from?
The practice originated in the early church, when Christians were actively persecuted. Closed communion kept infiltrators and other bad actors from being able to identify and persecute the underground gatherings of Christians. Today, closed communion is practiced because to receive communion in the Catholic Church is to profess that you are in communion with Rome, and believe in what Catholicism teaches.
I questioned that too. And the reasons you gave are right. But, I had heard testimonies of people taking the communion without knowing they shouldn't and get converted by Christ. A Jew, some others.
And Jesus said at the Last Supper: This is my body delivered for you, for the remission of sins, and literally he is delivered into the hands of his executioners later. And during the Supper, he gives a bite to Judas, knowing what he will be doing just after. Jesus died for him too. Judas just rejected his salvation.
The holy sacrifice of the mass, everyone is welcomed to attend mass (and join the Catholic Church) but please don't receive Holy Communion unless you are a baptized Catholic and have done the necessary Sacraments and are in a state of grace. I recommend traditional Latin mass when possible and to make sure the church is registered with the Archdiocese.
For women I recommend veiling but it's not required. God Bless and happy you got to attend mass 🤗🙏❤
The “closed communion” is due to the fundamental split between Catholics and Protestants. Catholics believe that during the Eucharistic Prayer, the bread and wine LITERALLY transforms into the body and blood of Christ. Protestant denominations, on the other hand, believe that the action is merely symbolic. If one doesn’t truly believe this, you should not partake of Catholic communion. Similarly, a Catholic must not partake of communion of any other denomination. This is a fundamental belief of Catholicism and I believe you weren’t fair in your explanation in the video.
You were late - how do you know you didn't miss the greeters (who likely want to be inside not missing mass)? We usually socialize AFTER mass, and outside of the worship space.
You have to remember with the Catholic faith...it's old and steeped in tradition so the mass is sombre at times but still beautiful. I've had people not acknowledge me at the peace greeting even if sat in my pew...and it plays on your mind!
Welcoming at the door is missing. You are right! They begun to do that at the church I attend since a few years only. And about the couple that give the peace greeting only to each other.... It can happen to people that go the Church very rarely, not knowing what to do, really. We see a lot of that kind of behavior at Christmas or Easter mass (once-a-year-mass Christians)😅
It's interesting. In the General Instructions of the Roman Missal, the Church says this about the Sign of Peace:
"As for the sign of peace to be given, the manner is to be established by Conferences of Bishops in accordance with the culture and customs of the peoples. It is, however, appropriate that each person offer the sign of peace only to those who are nearest and in a sober manner."
What people forget, or never were told, is that it's a ritual gesture, to be given in the same way to everyone. So the sign of peace you offer to your spouse on your right should be no different from the sign you offer the stranger to your left.
Jesus is the head of the Catholic Church. He started it. He left St Peter in charge and guided by the Holy Spirit till today. Read the books about the Church.
Beautiful church so awesome!
I'm curious as to exactly why you would be struggling with closed communion? To participate in a church's communion rite is to give your stamp of approval to exactly what that church teaches *about* communion. You say that it's the Body and Blood of Christ. But with the exception of Lutheran and some Anglican, most Protestants actually do NOT believe it's the literal, actual, real Body and Blood of Christ. (You describe yourself as "lifelong Protestant".) So if you believe that the elements only symbolize the Body and Blood, but aren't actually the real, literal Body and Blood, why would you want to participate and thus give your "stamp of approval" to something you don't actually believe? The purpose of closed communion isn't to protect their own doctrine, it's to protect yours. Because they know you may not believe the same thing, and thus put yourself in spiritual danger by partaking. (This coming from a confessional Lutheran that practices strict closed communion.)
🎯 1 Corinthians 11:27-30
Christian churches all believe in the last supper, but we all view it/perform differently. So our perspectives will vary. For some churches there is an element of specific church teachings and others it's only about remembering Christ. I think the latter is what he's used too so he didn't see the problem with taking it as an outsider.
Regardless of one's personal beliefs, the rules of the church being visited should be respected.
Thank you for your review. I never been to a Catholic Mass.
RE: CANDLES -Anything you may find used in worship in the New Testament, especially in the book of Revelation, is used in Catholic worship: vestments, lights, incense, chants, processions, and so on.
Protestants will never understand the Holy sacrifice of the Mass if they don't ask. It will all seem strange 😊 and then we have the catholic aerobics 😂 stand, sit, kneel, bow.... it's good to attend a Catholic Mass with a friend who hopefully will prepare the attendee
Nice. As a kinda, sorta, C&E Catholic, I was wondering if you’d do one. And as a somewhat introverted person, the standoffishness of Catholicism works for me; the Mormons sound engaging enough to trigger a panic attack! 😅 Although, I did visit a UU church once for fun and evidently I stuck out because the guy preaching(?) came up to me after. Friendly enough, but I was uncomfortable anyway.
We're on the same boat on the introverted uncomfortable feeling haha. Did you ever go back to the UU church after that greeting?
the stares of sitting in the pew during the communion procession is not about 'being welcome'. The stares come from your being in the way for when the procession comes back and others have to scooch over you. you're supposed to follow the line to keep the procession running smoothly and if you're not in a state of grace, have not gone to confession, and not a baptized catholic, you cross your arms over your chest and receive a blessing from the priest. No judgement from the priest or others at all - in fact, this shows more respect towards the holy Eucharist. Much better than taking communion when you're not in a state of grace - which is a grave sin. Seriously, good catholics want you to come home - protestants are always welcome - in fact, anyone is. Even baptized catholics should not receive the living presence of Christ if they are not in a state of grace. Don't take it personally - it's not about you- it's about CHRIST. The Holy Eucharist is to be revered as the living presence of Christ. And if some catholics are jerks, well, we're not in church for them at all - it's not a social event. And the parish that I go to have greeters that say with a smile "welcome to mass". Gotta shop around to find a great parish, tbh.
There is always a misunderstanding as to why not everyone is admitted to communion. Within the catholic faith when we receive communion our 'Amen' affirms that what we are about to receive is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ and everything Holy Mother Church teaches for our salvation. If a person does not believe in the dogmas of the faith then they should not give the appearance of belief, this would be a hypocritical action not just in the catholic church but any faith.
You should go to a solemn high traditional latin Mass. Very different from the novus ordo! Also don't expect to be greeted at the door or wave and chat to randoms during mass, but stick around afterwards and I am sure there be plenty of people to talk to!
The Mass is not a dinner, it it The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Correct it is the actual Body and Blood, of Jesus Christ, I would suggest that you read up on the Catholic Faith.
Boy, you totally missed the point. Mass is not a social hour. We are not there to hang out together. Mass is not about feelings. Mass is serious business. We are there to be honestly ousr sinful selves before God to ask his forgiveness and learn and commune with him. Why dont you do some minimal study before going? Your criticisms can easily be turned back on your churches which appear to us to be social club to see and be seen. Your homilies are mostly self help pep talks that dont have much to do with Christ.
A Mass is worship. The faithful are coming for their time of worship. Not to put to fine a point on it- it is an intrusion upon strangers to invade their sacred time in the sacred space. It is a thing to pray and meditate before Mass to prepare one's self for the liturgy. Less commonly in the recent decades it is time to reflect and thank after the liturgy. Worship of Christ is not the invitation for those outside of the communion of the Church. It is the sacrificial worship OF the Church. "Evangelism" or "outreach" is for another time and place.
Oddly for Christians outside the church I actually like the idea of bringing your own bread for yourself. It demonstrates that though not in full communion you are more broadly connected to the Church. I doubt that most others would appreciate that though.
For those outside the Church, particularly other Christians, approaching the altar during communion then crossing your arms over your chest to indicate you are not communing is appropriate. The Priest, Deacon, or Eucharistic Minister will elevate the host before you and pronounce a blessing. For a whole host of reasons (no pun intended) it's not right to take communion from outside the Church but that is a very involved discussion.
i think its a you thing when you think people are looking at you disapproving when you dont to communion.
as to not being greeted, my catholic church does greet everyone coming into the church. it may be regional but even not greeted, i always feel welcome. the church doors are open and the inside is a sense of security and peace. also prior to mass i have always been told is a time to reflect on why you are there.
I keep learning new things at every of your upload, I wonder how you researched and came across these churches. Thanks for ghe expose.
Keep trying bother...you are on the right path to embracing the ONLY n TRUE CHURCH OF JESUS. Soon...after the WARNING, the whole world will be Catholic/Christian, which in Europe has always been n meant the same thing. GOD BLESS YA.
There might be ushers at some Catholic Churches but the mass isn’t about feelings or emotions. We experience the sacrifice of our Lord and Savior.
1. Cannot receive the Eucharist (Body&Blood) unless you are pure, so you need confession with a priest. Cannot bring a brown paper bag.
2. The peace be with you isn’t to make friends. It’s Incase you have any conflict and cannot give tithes or receive the Eucharist.
•maybe the husband and wife had just had an argument, and wanted to squash it before partaking in the most holy of holies.
Catholics evangelize in a completely different way than Protestants. That’s why we are 2000 years old and the Mennonites are 120 or Calvary Chapel is 70 or Baptist are 200.
I love the stain glass windows in the Catholic Churches and the art on the walls and the statues. We have alot of beautiful art like that in the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints. Not so much the same statues in the church but the beautiful statue of Jesus Christ in the Los Angeles Temple visitor center next to the Temple. The sacred pictures we have can be found throughout the church buildings and the house of the Lord (the Temple).
Yes, I know the respect and awe Catholics have for God. I am a baptised Catholic now worship God in the United Reformed Church.
This was a lovely video. Thank you so much for reminding me of my roots.
#machrinaskitchen
Need to visit a Catholic church in CA where it’s multicultural.
If you're ever near Wilmette, Illinois, you should visit the Baha'i Temple. I think they have services on Sunday mornings. There are also local Baha'i communities in all parts of the U.S. who would be happy to invite you to a Baha'i event. Baha'i is not Christian, so we don't have services like churches do. But we do have informational meetings and devotional meetings. Baha'i communities are composed of people from all religious backgrounds, all racial backgrounds, and Baha'is accept the divine foundation of all religions while being a distinct faith.
Thanks Harlan, appreciate it! I actually have visited the Baha'i Temple in Wilmette several years ago and do have a retrospective video on it. A lot of fountains and a lot of gardens from what I remember - really enjoyed the tranquility and calmness. Also was surprised how fast the afternoon devotion was! I did attend the welcome center for a presentation on the faith and learned a bit about it. It wasn't for me, but was glad to have taken a look.
Since the host becomes the actual substance of Jesus one must be in a state of grace to receive Him. There is no avenue for protestants to achieve this (Sacrament of Confession) therefore, for the salvation of your soul the church can not give Him to you. Receiving Jesus in a state of mortal sin condemns your soul (sacrilege). The church in her mercy spares you from that condemnation. Holy Communion is a sacred privilege and not a right. One other things is that when the priest says “The Body of Christ” we respond Amen. This is an ascent to all dogmas of the church including the Magisterium and The Pope. If you say Amen and don’t believe everything the church teaches, you would be lying (yet another sin). So, it is for your spiritual benefit to not receive
Very interesting. Thank you.
Some Catholic churches have greeters. But when I visit a new parish, they never once have greeted me. Human nature to only say hi to people you know, I guess. What am I? Meatloaf? Only one priest in 6 decades actually asked me my name. It can be social if you want it to be, I tend to want to blend in with the wood work and just pray.
It is commendable that you took the time to physically investigate all the churches. And it is certainly understandable that from the Protest religion mindset making a simple smorgasbord of them as options for private selection appears reasonable. It is a start.
That being said, know that when you visit the 2000 year old Catholic church there are elements foreign to your experience because Luther and those protesting abuse at the same time elected to eliminate the priesthood from their company, elevated themselves as equal to the Pope [Chair of St. Peter] in discernment and authority, and also without authority eliminated 7 full books from the 1500 year old original bible.
Entering a normal Catholic church you will not have a people greeter because in that setting people are not being focused on. The center of everything is the real physical presence of Christ in His eucharistic presence [Priestly consecrated unleavened bread of the Altar] and the reenactment of the last supper liturgy. The real presence is marked by a candle in a tall red glass container of some sort. For the Catholic, Christ Himself is the important thing in the church. People become focused on AFTER the Mass [Last Supper] is completed. The communion is CLOSED because with it NOT being a symbol or simple memorial … those who receive the REAL body and blood are required to adhere to and believe in all the teachings of Christ; including his new priesthood and the authority He gave them.
The tower at Holy Hill you climbed for a view is a sort of tourist attraction … it is not directly involved in anything important in church activities on site.
The 12 outside statues were Stations of the Cross and points of Christ’s passion used for prayer. Tradition says His mother Mary instituted the prayers and format after the death of her son and set it up behind the house of St. John where she then resided.
The next step in your examination is to research the Early Church fathers documents and those of the saints prior to 1000 AD. The original church is evidenced there in clear format. Walking backwards in time 500 years .. almost all of the offshoots of Roman Catholicism we see today cease to exist; Mormon, 7th day Advantest, Baptist, Anglican, Methodist, Scientology, etc.
I don’t live far from Holy Hill. I am LDS and I think you need to keep coming back to church with us. 😁
Alleluia..
Great information.
Insofar as giving the sign of peace - a good friend of mine's wife was going thru chemo for leukemia - we normally even hug at mass/peace, but with covid still lingering they had no choice but to isolate and not touch anybody (exchange handshakes) except her husband (since they live together), he had to isolate too for her protection; so don't be so quick to judge others who might have a legit reason to not touch - simply wish them well/peace visually! ;)
Actually, as far as not being able to receive Communion in a Catholic Church. Please thank Luther, Calvin, and Zwingli for that. For the first 1,500 years of Christianity, this would have been a non-issue. Everyone, with very few minor exemptions, believed that the Eucharist was truly the Body and Blood of Christ (pretty explicit in the Bible). However, with the Protestant Protest, Luther basically opened the floodgates to anything goes as far as belief. Luther more or less believed in the True Presence, though his thinking was a bit muddled as is still reflected in the various Lutheran denominations. However, Calvin, Zwingli and others went off the rails with innovative theories about how the presence is "spiritual," "symbolic," or "whatever." The Church had to protect its ancient Apostolic teachings from these new teachers with their new ideas. It only makes sense to not allow Protestants who follows these new teachings of men to receive the precious gift of Communion. I might add though that the Church does allow members of the other ancient Apostolic churches with Apostolic succession to receive communion if their bishop allows it. This is because Catholics share their same beliefs, and their sacraments are as valid as the Catholic Church. The Churches that may receive Communion are the Orthodox Church, The Orthodox Church of the East, and the Assyrian Church. Again, I would like to stress that this is if their bishops approve. As far as the Sign of Peace, since Covid, people are not very touchy feely. They are still afraid. In my Church, at the Pre-Covid Sign of Peace people were hugging, vigorously shaking hands, and kissing their family members. It is going to take more years to get back to what it was before. May God Bless you in your Work!
Hello. Have you ever visited a United Methodist Church? I've found the UMC to be the best of both worlds when it comes to traditional and contemporary. Most churches have two separate services. One traditional and one modern. I love that we have an open communion where everyone is welcome at Jesus table. I've also found the UMC to be the best theologically as both evangelical and mainline and high emphasis on grace. I'm like you. I don't get exclusion.
For us the communion is the body and blood of Christ. It is sacred. The True presence. This is not true for Protestants. Therefore because of the sacredness we cannot expose it to those who do share that sacredness.
As a member of the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints I have never met a Catholic that wasn't very nice and courteous
There are to be no ushers pointing the faithful toward reception of Holy Communion. This is the teaching of past popes. It's to avoid the unworthy from receiving - in a state of mortal sin and a lack of fasting.
The reason you cannot go to communion as a non Catholic is this: We really believe that Christ is truly present in the Eucharist. You don't. So you don't really know what is going on and you don't really understand the gravity of receiving Christ in this form. In the Catholic faith, we require that you be in a "state of grace" to receive Christ's body and blood. Therefore you must go to communion and confess your sins before receiving. You did not do that, you didn't even know about it. The thing is, we take this very seriously. We are being joined with God in the Eucharist, and you do not do this light heartedly or as a matter of course. You compared it to not being able to eat at someone's house, but it is far more than that. Read Scott Hahn, a prominent Protestant theologian and minister who eventually decided to join the Catholic church. His books are all about overcoming each of his objections.
Also, I doubt that you were being judged that much by not going to communion. I returned to the church after a long time of being away, and I did not go to communion for about a year. I refused to because I had not been to confession. Nobody looked much at me. Today, almost everyone goes to communion, but that is a recent failure in teaching the young Catholics the faith. Many Catholics do not realize they are not in a state of grace. Modern teachers tell them that "God loves everyone, and everyone is invited" but that is just lousy teaching. Many go simply so they do not have to have everyone climb over them while they are sitting. Hopefully the church will fix this in the coming years.
there's something about being Catholic, you don't learn by attending one Mass, but by attending a bunch of Masses. That it is not about you. Mass is to worship, if you are bored, that's your issue , bad sermon, get over yourself, choir out of tune, you volunteer to sing, etc etc quiet is good for the soul
12:23 when he says "do comunion by myself" he thinks communion is only vertical between Christ and the individual; which it is. but it's also horizontal among all the believers participating. if you put those together it would look something like this ✝. you could also receive the host by mail and eat it at your better convenience. but it doesn't work like that. that's the main issue with protestantism. it tends to the atomization of the faith. if you don't like congregation. you break away and start a new congregation that suits you. instead of making the effort to conform to tradition and the community around you.
I’m not sure what happened to my comment. I left a very informative comment.
because in a way, it isnt "just" dinner (to borrow the metaphor). yes, ur invited into the home, but, not to the gold in the safe...? if you know what i mean? the treasure, well, it's like the Holy of Holies?
(and well, some of my protestant friends dont believe that that, tiny, humble, defenseless little bread IS Jesus Christ, (body, blood, soul, And Divinity) Holy Trinity, Himself) - and, if we just freely give it out without the disposition, the faith, it's kinda like giving your precious child to just anybody. You know?
Hence, the closed communion.
As for proper disposition and going to confession before receiving, for a lot of "catholics", it's (sigh) not ideal... hence, the many sacrilege and that passage of St Paul's letter to receive Him in a "worthy" / "proper" manner (i.e. going to confession before communion) metaphor being, the wedding prep before the wedding night.
but kudos on you for searching for God. other people dont bother. Love and respect, brother!
I watched one of your videos you received the Holy Communion,you don't have to ,is not hate.But you have to be baptized , go for catechism class, and be in a state of grace, that means you have to go for confession cos you're receiving Christ and not a symbol of christ.why you have to be in a state of grace is because, you don't receive a king in a filthy environment.
God's sacredness on
Tabernacle!
His Holy Presence!!
Blessings ❤️ 🙌
The structure of most Catholic churches is an inverted boat...
Check out its architectural design!
Get a blessing or be a member of God's church....
It's more than elements to a Catholic!!
Check out the innumerable miracles
ie., Lanciano etc
Hospitality is there
But, it is not social club as such...
BTW
Mormons are not a
Christian faith.
16:06 16:08
You are so Protestant!😊Catholic Mass isnt about the individual but the sacrifice the Priest will offer to God for us and total praise and reverence to God. You can glad hand and talk after Mass outside of the Church. Communion is only for people in the state of grace ...you are stating that you believe it is the Body and Blood soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ. Most Protestants dont believe the true presence of Jesus.
People may look thinking "Oh a visitor"
...but arent concerned with why you arent going to Communion. Even Catholics arent suppose to receive communion unless they are in the state of grace. Or have eaten food within an hour of Mass. Or came late after the Gospel.
Its not about good homilies but hearing the word of God before the sacrifice.
Our Church stopped shaking hands for the Sign of Peace..that was brought in after the 70's to disruptive .
Some people still do it ...but resepct the people that are deep in prayer and dont shake hands.
Have you gone to a Latin Mass?
The Eucharist is Holy and Sacred when we take comunión we must do with reverence, kneel and take in your mouth. Jesus is alive in the Eucharist. I have take some pictures in 2021 it was a procession with the Eucharist in the picture shows a light came from heaven and shine in the Eucharist. In 2022 the sun was in the the middle on my street and look like the Eucharist I experience something in my heart and body it was amazing. I took a picture and shows a path to the sun, this year 2023 I visited the Blessed Sacrament and took a picture it shows the face of Jesus and blood in the Eucharist. You should read John 6:32 and verse 55.
Matt 10
10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
The Lord's commandments are not burdomesome though he warned us that following him brings with it enemies. We are told to love our enemies. Love them by helping see the truth of God's will. If they don't listen move on. Abiding with those that are in disobedience is not loving to them, you, or the Lord.
2:03 it's a church, not a Wal-Mart.
Remember the wedding feast where one was not dressed and was thrown out? In those days the groom provided clothes ( freely )for the guests - the correlation is to baptism and our faith which is provided freely by God. There is no excuse for him who refuses the gift. He will be thrown out where there is whining and the gnashing of teeth.
I realize this is a year old, and I just viewed your video, but. On communion, our Catholic faith has strict rules, and I'm sorry you feel the way you do, but to e body of Christ you must be pure. No one that hasn't gone to confession can't take communion unless you're on your death bed.
I can't see everyone in Church going to confession. If they take communion without confession, well, it's a mortal sin!
Unfortunately, my sister in law is protostant and is still clueless after 30 years. I've read the hate book she reads about us. It's beyond evil and ignorant!
Years ago, her nephew, about 12 years old, said to me, thinking I was protestant. Did you know Catholics sacrifice a baby at the altar?
I said I'm Catholic, and we only sacrifice a baby a week out of the month and on Holy days of obligation. Wish you could have seen the look on his face. It was truly priceless! 😂...😮 🤭 👀
You're not disinvited from the Lord's table. The reason non Catholics should not receive communion is more so out of respect for your nonbelief. As Catholics, we believe the Eucharist is the literal body of Christ. When the priest holds up the Eucharist and says "the body of Christ", we say amen and receive the Lord. If you don't believe in the transubstantiation of the host, then you shouldn't be saying 'amen' to that and receiving it. It's not that protestants aren't good enough, it's that the church doesn't want you to sin by saying amen, and partaking in a sacrament you don't believe in. As far as the social interaction goes, Catholics believe the Mass is a sacrifice, not a social hour. We are there to worship, not socialize. Every Parish has groups that people can and do join, Bible studies, womens groiups, prayer groups etc, but that is done outside of the actual Mass, which should be reserved for worship.
Sorry that you felt you are not welcome to Holy communion. Of course when you come to believe all that Catholic church believes you will be in full communion with the Lord and the His Church.
try attending a Traditional Latin Mass
Greetings and fellowship happens after mass. I grew up Roman Catholic and I am blessed to be nondenominational. 🐞
I'm lds, and my wife grew up Catholic. She sees similarities between what we do in the temple and what is done in mass.
I wish pur church would do more with Palm Sunday, Thursday evening, Good Friday like they do for Holy Week or just restore passover already, Ezekiel wrote that it would be restored and we brag about Jesus, Moses, Elias and Elijah coming to the Kirtland Temple on Easter/Passover in 1836 but don't do much with it besides that unless it happens to be a General Conference weekend.
No it’s not a personal relationship, it’s communal, always has been.
You cannot receive Communion because you are not in Communion with the Church, established by Jesus Christ. If you truly believe it is the Body and Blood of Christ, then you become Catholic. Catholic Communion is not the Lord’s Supper. It is not a symbol, it is transubstantiated into the substance of Christ Body Blood Soul and Divinity.