Why San Francisco's J Church street car is (kind of) a let down.
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- čas přidán 27. 06. 2023
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I think the reason why the J can't turn onto market street is that the trolley buses that run on market have overhead wires with both polarities. That's not compatible with a pantograph, it's too wide so it would touch both wires. But it is compatible with the old streetcars (the F line), because they don't have a wide pantograph but rather a single prong, so those can run on market.
TIL! But there are PCCs who use the J Church row all the time, couldn't they make the overhead compatible or is like a one way thing?
@@offbrandurbanism I think it's a one-way compatibility thing. One prong (F streetcar) works with either one or two overhead wires (proof: market street). Two prongs (trolley buses) clearly needs two overhead wires. But I think that a pantograph is wide so it only works with a single overhead wire. Now, you might say "what about the market and church intersection" because the streetcar and the J church intersect there. I have looked at the overhead wires at that intersection and they cross each other in a cool way that's hard to describe but it prevents the pantograph on church from hitting the market wires. But that only works for an intersection, probably not in parallel. Maybe you could have one wire higher than the other but then intersections become impossible, which won't work with market's intersections further towards downtown where trolleybuses have to turn to SF transit center while F streetcar continues straight.
@@leijurv That is really interesting! Damn, oh well. The chance of SFMTA moving to surface only for J even if feasible would still be like 1% lol.
@@offbrandurbanismtake a closer look at the streetcar lines in the area it can be rerouted
@@offbrandurbanismyou forgot the L turned into a bus due to counstruction
On one hand I love how the J has those wacky steps that let it serve ground level and also platforms because they can literally transform. But on the other I do agree that the line is probably losing out on the advantages of everything that it does because it tries to do everything.
Totally agree! Appreciate the comment. You know of any other topics you'd be interested in seeing a video of?
@@offbrandurbanism im actually local to LA county so I may not be the best to talk about SF content. Maybe the future of BART?
But if youd do LA stuff maybe you could talk about the new LAX buildout?
@crassirus Those are both great ideas! I'll think about it. I've avoided LAX my whole life, maybe I'll go just for the connector haha.
@@offbrandurbanism give it a little while, but also make sure you still go down to the lower level pickup area by the baggage claim if its still open so you can experience the diesel tinged fumes of hell's echo chamber.
I don't know what that means. As a frequent user of "the J" the vexation was frequent stops at cross streets (not passenger stops!), breakdowns & bunching, track noise, and irregular actual service.
There are two good-enough parallel lines: the 24 trolleybus, 14 rapid bus, and of course Bart. When I hit 40, I even found walking 4 miles from home to office, through mid-Market even, was merely twice to 2.5x the travel time.
The J is unfortunately a relic at best, a white elephant at worst.
If you ever get the chance you should cover the LA metro red line. The experience is this horrible sweat-sock hallway 4 stories underground, but it connects some of the most integral parts of the LA metropolitan area. Rode it for two years when i was without a car and its a wild line
Never been on it! Hope to change that this summer.
Yeah I can vouch for this. Some great looking stations, some in need of a revamp, but the rolling stock is really stifling!
@@crassirus Rolling stock is stifling you say? Care to elaborate?
Sounds like Toronto to a sense. Our streetcars carry 130 people each but get little priority in many places. Even the 510 Spadina in its own dedicated centre-street right-of-way is slowed down by frequent stops, lack of transit priority (left-turning cars have priority over the streetcar), and single-point switches requiring slow orders.
Other Muni lines have better priority imo. J line length wise has a lot because there are 2 sections totally separate from cars and then mostly mixed traffic. It has improved over time though I'll give it that.
Don't know a lot about Torontos streetcars. I'll look it up. Appreciate the comment!
I think you’d find it interesting! There are definitely strong parallels with the handful of Toronto streetcars that run in a combination of mixed traffic, their own right of way, and underground (Spadina, Harbourfront, St Clair, and kinda Queen)
@rlwelch Tempting. Humor me, what do most people do in Toronto on vacation? I imagine it's a nice place to visit it's just harder to imagine going to than Montreal or Chicago.
@@offbrandurbanism great question! :) The most obvious answers are visit Niagara falls, eat international food (Toronto's food scene is amazing), bike/kayak around the lakeshore and the island. If you have more time there's world class canoeing a few hours away
And of course, ride the most comprehensive and well-used streetcar system in the Americas :)
Honestly San Francisco's trams are hella mid. Slow AF and they should've been replaced with heavy rail subways decades ago. Ps, Geary needs subways service so badly, the 38 is PACKED
38 Geary is packed. I had a relative drive for it! This actually relates to a future video I'm working on.
I'd love a "B-Geary" line but I don't see it happening till we handle costs better. I wish we just kept tunneling after the N-Judah was built but unfortunately at the current prices, it ain't happening. RMTransit has a lot of good videos on the cost conversation.
Appreciate the comment!
Love this video! Thanks for making some SF-specific transit content. I live on the Church line and it holds a special place in my heart although it has its problems as you’ve mentioned. Can’t wait to see what other videos you come up with next!
Thank you so much that means a lot to me! I don't plan to be an SF (or SJ) specific channel but I plan to always have content anchored in the Bay Area/California.
What SF-specific video topics would you like to see?
J line train car design pre boeing is so good. Love those big silly street car boys
PCC Squad rise up 🙌
I really think Muni should just get some modern fully low floor streetcars to use on the J Church and keep it all above ground. It’ll be much easier to operate and have better accessibility. And if the wires on Market St aren’t comparable, they could get some batter powered ones that use catenary when possible and run on batter power when it’s not available!
Ohhh a smart use of battery powered trains, is that even possible???
What a change since I was there in 2013 and 2014.... I rode and saw a number of 2-car trains on the J on my trips.
I also suffered all my Muni Metro delays on the J, all on the surface, and all but one outside Muni's control. The one was a train I'd just boarded outbound at Church & Market. When the operator went to depart, the train would only take power in reverse. In the process of troubleshooting, he changed ends, and took power from the opposite cab, and the train moved forward, but would not move in reverse. He ended up going out of service and using that rear cab to reverse into the siding track next to the portal.
When remembering the early history of San Francisco streetcars, don't forget the H line which ran down Potrero Ave to 11th & Market. It was a prime connection to downtown for those of us living on Potrero Hill. And H comes before J.
Yes of course. Let me correct myself, oldest *continually operating streetcar* in SF.
Thanks for noting that! Appreciate you taking the time to let me know that. SF train history is hard.
Awesome video. Love the deep dive on a single muni line. Look forward to your future videos!
Thanks! Which line would you want to see next? Also based on your user name, are you a Midwesterner, a stamp collector or both?
@@offbrandurbanism Ooo the T is the most interesting to me because it’s the newest and has some nice dedicated ROW but I’d enjoy any of them!
Actually it’s a reference to a book called “flatland” but the mid west thing was a good guess 😂
@@phlatlander You might be in luck with the next video!
@@offbrandurbanism 👀👀👀
It looks like a “Pre-Metro” to me…
Like the one in Brussels/Belgium-Europe
Yeah I think that's a good analogy. I haven't ridden that one personally but I rode the one in Nice and that's the closest I've ever ridden.
@@offbrandurbanism
Me not either , but Nice is a tramway…
The thing I most fail to understand about SF's transit system is that despite having multiple systems it really has only one line, in one tunnel, with a handful of terminal branches. What was anyone thinking?
I cannot tell you how much time this route saves time as someone who lives in the bay area.
As someone who grew up on Potrero, after the 10 was discontinued the 19 was a saving grace and while a lot of its route is obsolete for residents of Potrero, it is a lifeline. Great video though, the J is generally empty when I take it besides events at dolo, and look forward to future solutions.
This is great I subscribed to your channel randomly a while ago and this has been my train my whole life. (Or it was, because you're right, it's OK but there are better alternatives for me personally and I barely use it anymore). It is very convenient for Dolores Park trips still though. I learned a lot about the J I didn't know which is great because it's always been there for me.
And as far as the busses go, there used to be the 26 bus line which ran a similar route to the J which was a convenient alternative. San Francisco's MUNI busses aren't that great but it would still be nice to have some of the old bus routes around.
Appreciate the comment! I'd agree for Dolores definitely it's still the best option. It's a fun ride!
The j church should have a platform at grade with Bart plaza via the brutalist boi (the Bart station) for reasonable transfers. Currently, Glen park is the worst stop of the entire line which is tough competition. Yes, you'd have to close an on ramp probably, which would be good for the city.
I'd have to take a look at that on ramp you are referring to, I definitely agree it's a pretty bad transfer, a lot of official maps try to make it hidden for some reason.
Appreciate the transit enthusiasm and commenting on this video!
I joke that Glen Park is the worst Muni stop in the city. I’m not sure it’s quite that bad but it must be on the list, and yes, that transfer is obnoxious. On the other hand, I can’t think how else to route the tracks- and the connection from 30th to Balboa apparently did wonders for operations, since before that Js had to run all along the K before turning at Embarcadero to start a service.
@blechuk Fair points. It is a station between 2 streets so hard to be worse. I think the ridership to benefit ratio just isn't in the cards.
not wheelchair accessable too and if it was skateboarders would be
One thing about this is that the K actually can actually only accommodate one car trains along its surface route. The K's second car is locked at West Portal and not unlocked until the K returns to West Portal. The J is physically capable of using 2-car trains, but its aboveground portion just cannot accommodate boarding on two cars. Another issue that shows the K cannot fully use 2-car trains is that the boarding areas at Balboa Park (shared with the J) are only for 1-car trains. Showing that the J route is physically capable of two car trains, trains from the N line turn onto Church from the Duboce portal and use the J rails to get back. Those trains turn into J trains, and since the N uses 2-cars trains, the 2nd car is locked, but still physically there, so passengers can ride this run back.
I see the second cars doors unlock at St. Francis Circle always. Probably because the M also uses 2-car trains on that section between West Portal.
There's projects in the works to add 2-car boarding islands and zones through the rest of the K line. I doubt it'll actually happen though, they have decades to do this and haven't. Also the unless things change with neighborhood transit-mode share, the ridership at street running section is not high enough to need 2-car, but definitely it is needed once it enters West Portal.
Yeah that sounds right to me, M line uses it as well. Appreciate the comment!
There's been recent funding and the Sup for segment along Ocean Ave has done a couple things that makes me a *little* optimistic.
Ultimately I agree though, ridership isn't enough. I think adding more peak time frequency would help more, but ideally these two thing would go hand in hand.
Appreciate the comment and enjoy your week!
the other day i accidentally got on the wrong train at a market street station and i went on the J not knowing its history. pretty cool. also respect the 19 polk 💯😤😤
Loved this video, I'll be back for more. Keep up the great work!
Appreciate it! Promise it won't take 8 weeks for the next video haha
@@offbrandurbanism take ur time
Excellent excellent vid! I really adored the on-site footage and I appreciate the anchorman reference. Also, uhhhhh, how do you make a bullet train in the middle of a city? 🤔
If you remove enough stops my friend any train can have a bullet state of mind.
@@offbrandurbanism Good luck hitting 200+ km/hr on a 10 or so km route. The acceleration would knock everyone onboard unconscious 🤣
@@jacktattersall9457 Not with that attitude!
@@offbrandurbanism I'm just trying to obey the laws of physics and train acceleration/deceleration capabilities.
We were visiting San Francisco last year and the exact same thing happened on the to us on the J. An operator of a stopped train told us that there was a failue of the overhead wiring and although we were welcome to sit on his train to wait we opted to take a bus to a BART station to get back to our hotel.
This happened to me on a date once haha.
I hope the rest of your trip went well! Thanks for taking the time to watch my video and comment.
Great video! Any plans on covering the Philadelphia area anytime in the future?
How about we do a trip together and do a video on it? We can tee-pee Alan Fisher's house and expore a city with real civilization. I know it's been a lifelong dream of yours!
This is most thorough and accurate discussion of issues regarding the J-Church I have encountered anywhere! Your points about returning the J as a fully street-running line are especially important, as the J is not only infuriatingly unreliable and low in ridership, but it negatively effects service of other lines in the tunnel. Supposedly, the J can't run on Market Street except using legacy PCC streetcars because the LRV cars are too heavy. The elderly and handicapped objected to PCC only service because they are so hard to board. This seems like an argument for new low-floor streetcars for the J and maybe other street-running lines. Surface running would also speed up trips at least as far as civic center, though less so as it worked its way downtown and to the Embarcadero. Like all of Muni, the story of the J continues to evolve.
Appreciate the comment and support! I agree they should look into low floor. I wonder if the nrw Siemens are light enough? My understanding is the Brenda's are insanely heavy. Hopefully they find a wheelchair accessible solution for this.
What else would you like to see a video on?
I think this was the line I would take from the BART to get to Borderlands-the world's coolest bookstore back when I was in college (Cal class of '14). I miss the Bay area...
Sorry you miss it, Feel free to visit!
Go Bears!
1. BART vs Muni - two different systems with different goals and service areas
2. GM bought a ton of streetcar systems only to shut them down so that they could give kick backs to cities who bought their buses
3. San Jose Ave right of way, has existed since the early 1900's as it was used by a railroad to haul timber. They only added tracks to it again, it was not built for the muni extension.
4. LRV's can't run on Market St. because they're too heavy. 76,000 pound LRV vs 30,000 pound PCC. Mainly due to the subway air vents not being made to handle the weight. They tried running the Boeing LRV's on Market St. Caused lots of problems with the rails sinking in at the islands. Also, they would still be subject to bus traffic and congestion with the PCC's
5. Many of Muni's problems are due to legacy issues because it is an old system and it has lots of hills that our LRV's have to traverse. Muni has specs for them to accelerate and brake faster than the normal Siemens S200 cars used in other cities.
6. We can't have low floor LRV's because all the subway platforms are high and the city is not going to spend money to basically rebuilt all the station platforms.
There's a book, "Inside Muni" by John McKane and Anthony Perles I suggest you check it out to get some history on the streetcars
Hey thanks for taking the time to explain all of that to me and typing that out. I will check out the book. Sounds like a fun read!
I don't think the overall video is lessened because of these knowledge gaps, but I truly appreciate you explaining all of this.
2 and 3 interesting
Having the J turn right on Market and having it run above ground would be awesome. I catch the J at Church and 27th.
awesome :) I live in LA but next time I visit SF, the J Church Line will be part of my plan.
Have fun visiting! Appreciate taking the time to watch the video and comment!
1:35
the M's right-of-way through 19th ave is also kinda like that; no matter what time of year I go there, there's always poppies blooming LOL
The J was 2 cars briefly in the 90's. Because the pantographs on the newer vehicles aren't compatible on Market,it can't run on the surface. Which sucks. I'm old enough to remember riding the PCC cars on the surface before the metro opened and even nights and weekends until 1982. I wish the J ran surface as an alternative to the F,which is always overcrowded. I also wish the platforms on the N were longer so that 3-car trains could run.
I suggest turning the NB J to EB 16th St. Meet or join the T and continue to Chinatown. Provide a second link from Bart to Mission Bay & Caltrain. Preserves the single-seat to downtown while keeping out of the metro mainline.
Interesting idea. I think that requires going under both freeways and some higher grade streets. It's very creative but I imagine runs into difficulties. However I don't think that should stop the city from considering any option.
Thanks for watching my video and appreciate the comment!
@@offbrandurbanism cool reply. I intended to suggest street running. CaHSR trench will cross at 7th & Bart tunnel at 16th.
@@timgerk3262 oh yeah, fair point!
@@timgerk3262 wonder if u can make a map it sounds like u would hit a bunch of people w/ this route I talked to a guy that does the J and the ppl at the embarcadero stat and they don't take breaks there if u stay on the train by accident they just roll right back the only break they have is when they go back in to balboa or where ever there is on church during covid if they really needed it but ya one old almost retiring op told me along w/ some superiors in embarcadero
really great video
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it and as always appreciate the comment. Also sweet profile pic!
The J-Church is right around the corner from me & I'm part of the reason its ridership hasn't recovered since 2020, as I've been working from home ever since. Sorry. 😢
When the route terminated at Duboce, I found transferring at Church a relatively minor inconvenience when going all the way downtown; the major hassle was when I was trying to get to Van Ness & transfer to a 47/49 bus,* as it adds a transfer from above-ground to underground just to go one stop, in order to then walk back upstairs to transfer again.
I understand why they did that, and that it's illogical to have the J-Church dive underground behind the Safeway to take up valuable subway space better used by the other Muni Metro lines. Turning at Church & Market and sharing the F-Market tracks would seem to make obvious sense - so I'm sure there must be some technical reason why they don't. Maybe sharing with the F-Market is an issue? Maybe the already-complicated Church/Market/14th Street intersection is too daunting?
I've had many times when I'd be waiting at the Embarcadero Station at the end of work, waiting to come home, and one, two or even three promised J-Church cars that I'd seen come in one way got switched to a different line coming back around, leaving me sitting there for an hour or more growing increasingly frustrated. it really does seem like the red-headed stepchild of the Muni Metro system. I think running it above-ground on Market could only make it better.
* btw, I haven't done this since the BRT was finished - the last time I had to ride up Van Ness was while it was under construction, with each ride showing me more tantalizing progress. But that was for a series of appointments that ended before it was done. I need to find an excuse to head up Van Ness just to try it out.
SF Muni is why I left SF after 20 years. It would take me 90 minutes to move 3.5 miles. Note how the transit maps serve the NE quadrant of the city. I lived in the SW and the lack of options and poor service required me to drive the 3.5 miles then find parking.
That and the bad attitude and poor driving skills of many of the employees just made riding Muni a painful experience.
The bus lines on Van Ness are relatively new. Too little, too late.
This... It is like for all the decades spent on that project, it would have been way wiser to make a subway line but alas look at the Central Subway... That's a hot steamy mess in and of itself!
Sorry to hear you left! What places do you feel have better transit? SW corner is rough.
I'd argue no projects is too late, there are still people here and Van Ness has worked pretty well. It was much cheaper than a subway and in my experience the service frequency has been great. I worry if we built a subway it would cost a billion and be every 15min like the Central Subway.
Although everyone is different I am pro frequency over speed.
Appreciate the comment and your thoughts!
@@offbrandurbanism I moved to NYC and left my car behind in SF 7 years ago.
@lohphat Damn some people leave their heart here, you just left a Honda Civic.
Joking aside love NYC! Miss me some halal cart food.
@@offbrandurbanism Actually it was a Saab wagon, but my Saab story has gone on long enough.
I am curious what you would say about the SEPTA Trolley lines. They have lots of the problems you mentioned in this video but have better peak frequency and the subway portion is actually pretty useful for them - it takes them out of the most congested part of the city. They also have dedicated stations, platforms and tracks in the tunnels though. The problems you mentioned about using tracks made for legacy streetcars makes me nervous as SEPTA is beginning a 10 year project of modernizing its trolley network
MUNI has stations and platforms and tracks inside a couple tunnels. I'd call market/west portal tunnels useful.
I would love to go and ride the SEPTA Trolleys. I unironically dream of visiting Philly next year. How frequent are peak times?
Also appreciate taking the time to watch the video and then handing me a video idea! Have a good one!
@@offbrandurbanism It was a really good video.
You totally should! SEPTA is a really interesting system. For the trolleys, headways in the peak are 6 minutes. But if you trip begins and ends in the trunk, the wait times are like 90 seconds or less.
I also think it would be interesting to compare legacy streetcar lines like those in Boston, Philly, and San Fran.
@FloodlightCollective That is an interesting idea. I know SF and Boston both used Boeing LRVs. The SEPTA Trolleys look pretty funky but yeah 6min headways for a Trolley is pretty good, I'll make note of that thank you!
I should point out, the J church is the oldest surviving rail service, but there are a ton of lines that are doing the same thing that they did during their Streetcar days (2, 5, 14, 19, 22, 30, 38) before the J was a thing. The oldest continuously used piece of Streetcar infrastructure (besides Market) is actually sections along Ocean and Taraval, which opened in 1902.
Hey appreciate it. Saw your comment on my other video as well! I'll make a note on both (especially when doing the lines that hit that older section).
My only response to all of it is I believe the merits if both videos still stand outside these minor historical inaccuracies. I really appreciate you pointing them out and please comment on every future video as well haha I'll be on the lookout!
@offbrandurbanism And also putting PCC's on the J makes a lot of sense in the short to medium term, as MUNI has a lot of Single-ended PCC's that can't run on the E. The long term solution is of low-floor LRV's for the E, F, J, and K+L.
If you want to know more about the history of MUNI, I would recommend the books People's Railway, and Inside MUNI, which should be available at SF's main library. IIRC, the same authors also did books on the old Market St Railway and the Streetcars/Interurbans of the East Bay/South Bay and Peninsula.
Great video
Great comment!
Crazy that an absurdly rich city life SF can't figure out how to build a real subway
Tbf there is BART, that's a real subway.
There's also this recent attempt SF tried... stay tuned! Very absurd.
SF CAN figure it out. The plans have been there for decades. It's mainly local merchant's associations that fight against subway projects. The Geary Blvd merchant's association has essentially prevented the Geary subway from being built (at least since the late 1980s - different political reasons before then).
Thanks for the vid! :) it was a few weeks ago that I first rode the historic streetcar along the embarcadero, im surprised there were locals onboard! i thought it would just be tourists! Gonna try riding on some other lines next time im in SF, any reccomendations?
Ooohhh great question!
The F line is great because it charges normal MUNI fare (unlike the cable car) so yes it serves locals. I don't ride it as much as I wished but definitely not just for tourists.
I want to say the N line gets you closest to Golden Gate Park, Haight Ashbury and goes by Sam Tung, Kevin's Noodle House and Hook Fish Co so solid food options. Oh and THE OCEAN.
Hope that helps feel free to reply back! Appreciate watching my video and comment and glad you enjoyed the city!
Thanks! Awesome to hear from you :) and thanks for the food options too!
@@enepesf5126 Anytime!
@@offbrandurbanism monthly passes work w/ cable last time i road
When I lived in Noe the only time I really took the J was to get to Dolores park. Taking it downtown was so slow and since the train was always delayed you never really knew when it show up. It was much faster and more reliable to take a bus up to Castro station and catch a train from there. Coming back, even if the J said it would arrive in 4 minutes, often it would take 20 so it was really never worth waiting for if a K or M train was at the platform
Those J delays can be brutal. Yeah in my experience, there's a tiny donut hole of places where it makes sense to take the J to, and it's mostly Dolores Park or Noe Valley so your story checks out. Also thanks for watching my video!
I think the N and J surface lines should be combined, and turn Church into an easier transfer station, and have either the K L or M run thru the Embarcadero to Caltrain/Ballpark
I've seen a few proposals like this. I think people are hard wired for direct transfers. Plus my understanding is the N can handle 3 cars which would help with capacity. I think just having J surface level and the other 4 lines that go under market using it every 8 minutes would be a much bigger improvement that could be done medium term.
However that's just my take, I appreciate you taking the time to watch and comment on my video, and you are not the first (or last) person with this idea so it's got potential to go places! Have a great week!
L Taraval M Ocean View and N Judah Will Run onto 3 Cars
Light Rail Subway will run onto 3-4 & 5/6 Cars
J Church and K Ingleside Will Run on 2 Cars
Better idea convert the M and N into driverless metro and build ELs to replace the street running segments of the N and M lines then build an EL linking the central subway at one end with the tunnel used by the N on the other. M and N can be upgraded to GoA4 metro and the rest kicked out of the tunnels. k and L merge into a crosstown streetcar or bus and J gets the boot from the tunnels period
@@qjtvaddict West Portal Subway To Ocean Ave for K and to Parkmerced/Westlake and Thronton State Beach and Daly City BART for M Line and On J Church to SF State University
1. The J is the oldest *surviving* streetcar line, not the *oldest* line.
2. Much of the cable car system was destroyed in the 1906 earthquake. Post-quake, the transit system was rebuilt as electric streetcars by United Railroads that would later morph into Market Street Railway. Between 1906-1911, the system was mostly electric streetcars *not* run by Muni.
3. In 1912, Muni was created by a bond vote in 1909 has has nothing to do with not renewing a cable car franchise. (Again, most of the cable cars were destroyed in 1906.) Between 1912-1944, *both* Muni *and* Market Street Railway operated streetcars in SF. In 1944, Muni bought out Market Street Railway absorbing it.
4. The J is forced to run 1-car trains because some of the surface platforms are only big enough for 1 car and there's simply no room to expand them.
5. The J wasn't converted to busses because (at the time) busses simply couldn't climb the 19% grade between 18th-22nd streets whereas the right-of-way's (RoW) steepest grade is 6.8%. Even if they paved over the RoW, it's not wide enough to run 2 bus lanes. Occasionally, they have to substitute busses on the J, but modern busses can handle the 19% grade on Church St.
6. As someone else noted, you can't run LRVs on Market because of the trolley coaches' double overhead wires and a pantograph would contact both and short out. But even if they could run on Market, they'd be stuck in traffic with cars or at least lights just like busses.
7. Many of your criticisms of the J apply equally well to all the other streetcar lines since they all run both on the street in mixed traffic and in the subway. That's the kind of legacy you have to deal with on a 112-year-old streetcar system. It would be *extremely* expensive and disruptive to rebuild it all to modern LRV standards.
well uh there are no left turns allowed for van ness. it could easily be fixed by adding some bus signals though
Right bus signals. Duh, that's on me. Appreciate commenting!
Those underground stations are quite big, my first time actually using underground LRVs (T Third is an absolute godsend to get to Chinatown quick and easy) one thing I noticed when coming back off the T Third was when I went to the Powell station to hop on the K to get back home that platform is absolutely enormous as far as length, there was a double train but where I went down on the escalator there was zero way I was getting to it on time. Now I'm guessing they do this to stack up multiple trains, but damn that was a pain as the next train after was like 20 minutes out... not horrible in the grand scheme of things but still felt bad because if the train stopped right where the escalator was I'm just walking right on and off.
The reason the Muni subway station platforms were built so long was because they're the same length as the BART platforms underneath. Today, though, Muni does double-berthing to take advantage of the longer platforms.
can't wait for the bowing lrv vid
Muni should modernize the entire light rail system, including the J line. 2 or 3 car trains, proper platforms at all stations, no more stop requests.
Definitely! Minus the J line that seems to be MUNI's goal long term. K line has a project to allow 2 car trains with passengers in both at surface level. There's always ideas floating around for M and N to go to 3 cars. No stops requests I think would be politically harder though, there's always one loud constituent for every transit stop!
Appreciate the comment!
As I mentioned elsewhere, the reason they can't run longer trains is because several of the surface platforms are simply too short for them and there's simply no room to expand them without demolishing people's houses and removing parking spaces. And the last thing you ever want to propose in SF is to remove parking.
I used to ride the J-Church from Church and Duboce over to San Jose and Santa Yenez to access the Bungalows at CCSF for a math class and repeat the process going home. My biggest gripe with the J was the fact that the system would say "Train in 5 mins" and nothing came, for 20 mins! When you had to be to class on time, that was a huge pain in the rear. Sometimes I would just go to Civic Center and jump BART to Balboa Park and leg it to class! Not to mention the utter bottleneck that's the entrance/exit behind the Safeway.
I do like the idea of either terminating the J at either Church and Market or heading up 17th Street and terminating at Market and Castro. Potentially even alternating the termination point so that you can keep one area from totally becoming backed up. Then you can transfer to another line to take you along Market Street, above or below ground. That to me makes the most logical sense and provides an easy way to get people to/from the touristy parts of SF.
As for people who are mobility impaired, I cared for my grandmother when she lived in SF, and she would use the SF Paratransit bus if I wasn't driving her somewhere so that's an option too. Although I hate saying it good luck squeezing anyone of any mobility level into an absolutely packed train period. But alas, SF is a lesson in mismanagement and pet projects so as much as the surface only J may make sense on paper, no one thinks like that so...
Hey appreciate the really well thought out comment, my apologies mine won't be a thorough (I try to respond to EVERY comment so forgive me)
Yeah I agree the wait time is the worst. Service times is something that I hope medium term MUNI figures out given the recent state funding.
Someone much smarter than me pointing out that while it is possible for heritage lines to keep going uo market, the way the pantographs work the J wouldn't so it would have to stop somewhere. If frequency on it and the N were increased, there would be 2 very easy transfers switching to surface only for modern trains and then heritage could go up market. That's my long term hope.
Also Jesus yeah that bottleneck behind Safeway is nuts. They really need to figure out that intersection better.
@@offbrandurbanism Oh for sure the trolleybus & tram wires issue is a thing, but if they switched to PCCs ;-)... But I digress!
I used to live up the hill from Duboce Park and it would get so bad some mornings waiting for the train to get in that sometimes the operator would hear the radio traffic, and open the doors and tell people it was faster to walk to Church and hop on there. That's how you KNOW the system is borked.
@@offbrandurbanismThat bottleneck behind Safeway has ALWAYS been nuts. Even before they built the subway and the N turned at Market & Duboce by the old gas station,it was a pain in the arse. Don't even get me started about the overhead power dead spots in the Twin Peaks Tunnel between Forest Hill and West Portal on the K/L/M.
4:11 That's an easy point, that's a Lisbon Tram, Lisbon, Portugal.
Wow first taker. Any specific lines come to mine? I actually walked right by this in 2017 and didn't ride it because I was, and still am, a chump.
@@offbrandurbanism Nah, not that specific, I just knew it. I'm just into CalTrain Electrification.
@hintmations I mean who ISN'T into Caltrain Electrification amirite?
@@offbrandurbanism True
How about a 4th option - a new type of streetcar in use specifically for the J. Maybe a low floor European style tram.
Then it precludes it from *ever* going into the subway. It also increases operating costs to own, maintain, train drivers for two different LRVs.
now i want a review of every muni line!
and if you're gonna rag on the 19, don't forget the 36, the tiny little bus the climbs all the highest hills in sf!
The 19 is okay! I was just using it as a comparison, since I think most people agree a train line of any size should best a low ridership bus line. Not all bus lines should be like the 38 or 49.
Appreciate watching the video and taking time to comment, hope you have a great rest of the week!
@@offbrandurbanism haha oh man a video on the dirty 8 would be amazing
@@GGordonWorleyIII dirty 8??? What other Muni line nicknames do I not know about?
think the 36 is just to say we service that place cos w/o it basically a big gap and 19 polk is a popular hipster place has hopsitals think 27 is closer but it has stuff going on there goes all the way down to navy yard or that super industrial zone w/ some jobs like sfjobcore and stuff elemantry schools and stuff one high school closed on route there passes thru a hood and a kfc
Here for the OSRSxTransit crossover
I made that reference just for YOU! Which quest should I reference next?
@@offbrandurbanism Off the top of my head, OSF or maybe even some Dorgeshkaan/Keldagrim train content to keep it relevant lol. Maybe some gnome gliders? In any case, great vids!! Love the content :))
It reminds me of SEPTA's Trolley System. A Streetcar (ugh...i prefer the word Trolley or Tram lol), and a subway. Every car is one car too....
Though we getting upgraded to LRT strandards soon. We just order new "Bendy" Trolleys from Alstom.
Yeah I'd say SEPTA Trolleys are the most similar U.S system.
I think because San Francisco had/has "cable cars" it made sense to call the electric version "streetcars."
We also call pantograph buses "trolleybuses" instead of trackless trams.
That's funny cuz guess what we call our trolleybus system in Philadelphia.....the Trackless Trolley lol
@CaseysTrains just different history. I don't mind either, although in my brain tram is a non-american term haha
More videos pleaee
Just got my next video out! Expect a better upload scheduled, been writing and filming a lot past few months.
@@offbrandurbanism no way
theres small plans to combine the K and L lines to surface only. Just a random fact
Wait how lol? Like the tunnel to get out by Castro closed right? I must be forgetting something here.
@@offbrandurbanism The K and L combines at westportal. and stays above ground, Westbound to Sf zoo, eastbound to balboa park
@@m0istl0la97 K and L Taraval will Run Westbound to Taraval + 48th Ave from Balboa Park Station
K Ingleside Balboa Park - West Portal
L Taraval West Portal - SF Zoo or Ocean Beach at Taraval + 48th Ave
@@djjuanjr6339 when iwas taking the M it often changes to an L when it has to go home maybe thats sort of like it
How do the hgih-floor vehicles work for boarding from streetlevel for customers in wheelchairs or with strollers? I cannot help recommending that Muni split the Muni Metro into a Muni Metro all-high-floor dedicated right of way and underground lines using high-floor vehicles with level boarding as three or four unit trains and a 'Muni Tram' system of low-floor trams (like Toronto's Flexity Outlook Legacy) that can run in a mix of dedicated and on-street rights-of-way with deployable ramps for stepless boarding off streets/cerbs. Easy transfers would then be made at interchanges between MuniMetro and MuniTrams. I know people (Nimbys) would hate it but it is probably the only way to truly fix the problems and maximize capacity and reliability. Eventually everyone would get use to it.
Transit agencies should not be so afraid to make some people mad!
Cue laughing Japanese and French about the J Line Bullet Train -- improving reliability and speed is not about making bullet trains but freakin' dependable transit. Also, a website dedicated to a single stop is Tier 1 Transit Nimbyism right up there with the 'don't put elevated light rail beside a wide arterial road bridge across a river valley'( Line 5 Eglinton West Extension in Toronto) or Montreal's 'Underground for 36BN because god forbid you can see the train in suburbs and former industrial areas!'
They make certain stops wheelchair accessible with platform ramps.
San Francisco's city politics could be summarized as "don't make loudest people mad" which is why the city often kills housing projects for pretty flimsy pretense.
@@offbrandurbanism Sometimes you have to do what will be the best choice in the end, let people get mad, and buy earplugs for when they do.
It isn't just subway =high platform and street = low boarding. Some street segments have high platform stations too. All third st and on Embarcadero but M line has 2 stops near SF state that are high platform while the rest of surface is low loading.
@@AntonyFernandez-oi4te yeah this
You kept talking about single car lines, but some of the videos showed double articulated sets. It could have been clearer.
My apologies, I'll try to make footage more clearer and in synch with the script. Appreciate you watching the video and comment!
@@offbrandurbanism Thanks. I'll keep watching.
Does anyone know if the J was ever considered to merge with the N Judah tracks west of the Duboce Portal? This would be a single seat ride from Noe Valley > Cole Valley/Golden Gate Park/Ocean Beach
I don't believe that has been considered, that's really creative though! What is your reasoning for that?
@@offbrandurbanism It doesn’t really please anyone that currently takes the J to downtown/FiDi. But it does provide 1 seat ride to a part of the city that I imagine is popular for folks by the J line currently (cole valley/golden gate park/outer sunset). Also relieves subway congestion although COVID and L-suspension has helped with that.
not a thing based on ridership destinations. 90% of people down downtown. Usually how most transit systems work. The focus is to get people from home to the central area where people work. Not from one residential area to another
@@LeoVillacorteThat’s true for commuters going to work but not Muni ridership data is showing. For example, the 22 bus moves 20k people a day in SF and doesn’t go downtown. The 49 also doesn’t go downtown and has really high ridership. The trains also have similar, if not higher ridership on weekends vs weekdays now that most trips aren’t going to downtown due to WFH. 430k transit riders daily in SF and most trips are not downtown.
@@anthonysnyder1152 49 is interesting i didn't think not going down town was the issue since there could be hosptials which makes the overall point that N and J are close to them except the J is farther in its route for its CPMC
they say you are what you eat no wonder im the j church line
Such a summary of SF. Lived there for 4 years, moved away still wanting to love it, but residents to preservation seems to pulling the city into obscurity. I still want to love it, but have stopped looking because it seems too much like watching a funeral.
Hopefully it turns around and stops looking like a funeral for you!
Appreciate you watching the video and taking the time to comment, I hope falling in love with San Francisco hasn't emotionally scared you with other cities!
They could create a new subway at 18th going north and then under Divisadero all the way to the Marina.
Don't get my hopes up!
Nope. The Marina is all landfill, you can't have a tunnel in that. Also the cost of tunneling the city won't pay for it.
@@LeoVillacorte what about just before the landfill
They *could* have taken the T all the way to the Marina, but North Beach merchants killed it. In SF, merchants are often the most short-sighted people.
Yep this is why no one takes the street cars in SF; even busses provide better service for SF
Definitely, 100% agree. But also, a good high frequency bus is just great efficient transit.
Appreciate the comment and have a great day!
I thought it was faster to go downtown from Balboa Park Station
OO CENTRAL SUBWAY VIDEO
Shhhhhh....
It is actually San Jose Ave not San Jose Blvd.
Wow I can't believe I didn't notice that. I've been in San Jose Ave 100x of times and forgot. Good catch! I promise I don't say that irl.
Appreciate watching my video and taking the time to comment!
I agree that the SFMTA is a malevolent force. Look at what they did to the bike lanes on Valencia.
Oh boy, don't get me started on that bike lane. What a bizarre, horribly unsafe idea in the name of preserving parking spots.
I think the SFMTA will switch to protected lanes until someone gets killed. Just like Arguello. And I'm an optimist about SF!
You don’t seem to be aware that “LRV” is a marketing term, it has no significance otherwise, it was simply coined as cities considered modern rail service to have a name other than “Trolley” or “Streetcar” which would sound like we were going backward (or that politicians had made a mistake tearing them out).
One thing to consider about Muni, especially when it announces major new service improvements: Muni is critically understaffed and never has enough operators to provide full service across the system. Great pay, great benefits but working conditions straight from hell (liberal San Francisco?) get a significant percentage of new hires to quit very soon after training.
Market Street Railway has two very detailed articles regarding the first 40 years of the subway, both of which could be called rabbit holes, so far in depth are they. Suffice to say, Muni only got the subway thanks to BART and its federal money, as voters repeatedly voted against any locally funded options. Naturally, the Muni Metro as it’s known was a series of compromises and was designed for three lines, period. Five ended up crammed into the system. One early “fix” was to schedule the J and N to rendezvous at Church/Duboce and link into a three car train before entering the portal, with the M and L/K doing the same at West Portal. Needless to say, this never worked and was abandoned, but in the old system, the one car trains threw off the spacing and then mucked up the operation of the subway.
We supposedly have a new operating system since then, but for some reason Muni can not seem to get two trains at the same platform and open doors on both of them without having to move the second train forward afterwards, and open the doors again at the other end of the same platform.
You alluded to another problem Muni has across the system and that is trains (and buses) turning back before the end of the line. This makes sense operationally, why have a big train (or two of them together) go all the way to the end, with a handful of passengers when they’re needed downtown? It would work too, if Muni would ensure a bus is waiting for the passengers when the train (or bus) arrives. Too often though, a train will turn around with no train visible as far as the eye can see. Irritating as hell when it happened to me on the K while going to City College, daily; or on the J going to the same destination, when the train turned back at 30th, daily. Fortunately, a slightly longer walk got me a third option : BART.
At the end of the day the attitudes of the ridership along the J isn’t just affecting the J, it’s the same attitudes that keep us awash in homelessness and severely short of housing (to the point HUD now says an income of $105K a year qualifies you as low income in SF). And, at the end of the day, too many San Franciscans, all their vaunted liberalism and environmental protestations aside, are driving their cars as primary transportation having been emboldened by covid.
Hey, appreciate you taking the time out of your day to watch my video and make such a lengthy comment. I am sorry to hear about your frustration and I hope things improve for the better. I disagree with your political perspective based in this comment alone but I get where you are coming from.
Assuming the rolling stock exists, the easiest solution by far is to use the historic PCC cars to run a surface-only J line from the Ferry Building to Balboa Park; parts of Market can't accommodate pantograph-equipped cars because of the dual wiring that allows for trolleybus operation, so putting Metro cars on Market would definitely require either re-wiring the right of way or replacing those cars' pantographs with trolley poles.
The video didn't really cover why 2-car trains can't be used. Some stations will need to be extended. Ok. Some streets might be blocked for a few secs during stops like they are by cable cars. Neither is anything new.
Hey appreciate the comment amd username crazyvag!
I think similar to the K line when they started 2 cars, it would take more engineering work to allow 2 car trains surface level, especially with the Delores Park stops. I think ultimately it's very feasible just a pretty low MUNI priority.
My issues with the J-line go beyond that though, I'd much rather have higher frequency than anything else, and the way it currently operates, it likely isn't going more often than every 15min.
Because some of the platforms are simply too short and there's no room to make the longer without demolishing houses or removing parking. If you want a sure-fire way to kill support for a proposal in SF, have it include removing parking. It'll be DOA.
Long term plan that I think could work far better - make the J Church surface only, and extend that surface only line up Fillmore or Webster all the way to the Marina. Will look nicer on the map, take some strain off the 22 Fillmore,and give a direct connection from Church and south Market to Geary, instead of having to go all the way Northeast to catch the 38 Geary.
That's a really interesting idea, I'll need to do a walk through of that layout next time I'm by that. A lot of potentially good connections though definitely.
Appreciate the comment btw!
@@offbrandurbanism thanks for the reply man! The only thing that bugs me is how we’d get the line from duboce/Church onto Fillmore, since that’s two big turns. Maybe use the market street connection and make it turn onto Webster instead? I don’t know the area well, so I’m not sure if that’s a good idea
@@LuckyFlanker13 Yeah I'm tired right now so too lazy to look but I think there would be some limitations. There are a couple interesting surface line ideas I think should be looked into though. Also I imagine some people would say "The future Central Subway Extension will hit the Marina!" Which is about as likely as man landing on Venus.
Although unfortunately that is as likely as my dream of extending the F line to Fort Mason, sad!
Also you're welcome on the reply, but I should not I try to reply to *EVERY* comment because I am insane.
FIllmore and Webster are too steep for light rail vehicles
@@LeoVillacorte i was thinking their too narrow for any extra wider vehicles let alone a rail
This video brings back a lot of bad memories of years of commuting on MUNI from the Sunset to downtown for work...so happy I left San Fiasco and the Gay Area over twenty years ago and never looked back!
albeit is not pronounced "all bite!!!"
If I had a penny for each time I mispronounced something, I'd be a millionaire.
10:18 bro COUGH ohmygod!!
I am not sure what this means, can you elaborate?
@@offbrandurbanism your voice was super raspy in that section
Oh dude so sorry. Recording my voice is so hard haha and most of this video was on a phone. I got a mic and aiming to record videos in between drinking tea haha
@@offbrandurbanism its all good. this video was super good, idk why you dont have more subs. keep makings videos bro ur gonna get big
@rebootnyc I only got 2 videos! Come back when I hit double digits!
Just convert it to trolley bus service and merge with the 49 bus let’s be real it’s a failure as a so called train
I think there's potential, also by U.S street car/light rail standards, it does fine enough to justify it's existence imo. Love me the 49 though. Thanks for commenting!
@@offbrandurbanism US streetcar standards are very low tho.
Yeah, the J absolutely needs to become a surface-only line. It should just turn onto Market street instead of going into the Market Subway. This would literally make the J a better, faster, and more frequent line. That's what the right of way was designed for, and that's what it does best. It just doesn't work as a light rail/light metro hybrid line. Unless the local NIMBYs are OK allowing the same light rail upgrades that the N and the L recently got, they will have to eventually accept this.
Muni wants to do this as we have seen from their recent surface-only pilot. And yes, the NIMBYs on the line know exactly which buttons to press in our city government in order to get their way. Nevertheless, the benefits of making the J surface-only are just too big for Muni to ignore. I bet that they will eventually push this through.
I think that they can sweeten the deal by running an additional heritage service on the same alignment. The local NIMBYs will love seeing the old-timey PCCs in their neighborhood and this would double the overall service frequency. If Muni adds more service via some heritage PCC streetcars then they can argue that making all of the J surface-only would ease operations. There, problem solved.
I agree it will need to be a sweetened deal to get it done. As time goes on, I think it becomes more likely as the L line is brought back. Appreciate the comment!
@@offbrandurbanism Dude, really appreciate the content. I know that this stuff takes a ton of effort and is not at all compensated. We all appreciate you creating a forum for us to talk about this. It's important stuff!
LRV's can't run on market st because they are too heavy. They make the rails sink into the ground and the subway air vents aren't rated to handle their weight of 76,000 pounds. The historic street cars that run on Market St weigh half as much
@@LeoVillacorte Can't verify that this is the case. All I've heard was that the LRVs can't run there because the pantographs would interfere with the trolley bus double wires.
But be that as it may, Muni can always redesign the corridor or simply use lighter vehicles. Yes, that would cost money, but everything costs money. Good things generally cost more money, not less.
Alternatively, they can just make the J a heritage line permanently and only run PCCs and their assorted fleet of other oldies. The NIMBYs, again, would love this. The rest of us can finally get a decent light metro/subway in SF. Everybody wins.
Pretending like the J is even in the same universe as the N and M is ludicrous. The J is basically a bendy trolley bus on steel wheels. Single car trains do not belong in a subway. It's a waste of everyone's time and money. If the locals want to keep the J a bus then they should accept bus-like service. Or close some intersections and cede some car lanes to make the J a real light rail line. I'm fine with either.
@@TohaBgood2 LRV's share the power with buses on Church St. already. They just offset the negative wire more to avoid the pantograph. It's not a big deal to work around that. Muni had a PCC car fitted with a pantograph to do testing well before the LRV's were put into service. You can google "SF Muni PCC car with pantograph" to see for yourself.
Also the Boeing LRV's used to run in four car trains in the subway. The J and N cars would wait at Duboce and connect and then run in the tunnel. They would disconnect at Van Ness or just outside the tunnel before turning. It was a huge problem because more often than not they would either not connect or disconnect. Wasting more time. This was an issue with the Breda cars as well. For a time with the Boeing cars, they would run four car trains to West Portal and the KLM's would split or connect there. But ultimately the practice was stopped.
Last time in SF I was only a few blocks away. I wish I would have known to take it. Are the demographics changing where it is serving an older population? Empty nesters?
It covers a lot of neighborhoods, end of Castro to near-ish mission through Noe Valley and then through Glen Park amd Mission Terrace so hard to do blanket statements....
Saying that though yes, the demographica are more empty nesters, possibly more so than the city average as far as I know.
Really interesting question, why do you ask?
@@offbrandurbanism I was a building inspector in Cincinnati for 30+ years and an inspector seven years before that, and I have noticed that neighborhoods age out. The building age out in terms of materials and care, and in terms of what younger people want. The people tend to get old, too, and there are not any kids or people to take over preferring the newer houses and development over the old. The young ones go to the places where the jobs are AND where they can afford to live. That three-story frame house of Mom and Dad’s is too expensive to run and maintain, etc.
Looking at City-Data on the zip codes around there, a lot of the numbers don’t make sense to me. The medium ages aren’t so bad up there. The commutes aren’t bad either. I see a lot of single people which is okay but they don’t have families or children that would use public transport. Income is going up. Rents and home prices are sky-high.
What I was thinking was that a lot of the Japanese rail lines are losing passengers due to population declines dues to age, and shifts in population from rural and small cities to big cities. That isn’t the issue there. You might want to see if you can get the census tract data around the line and see if there are any population reductions or households in general. I’m wondering if the issue is that people have big incomes and commuting by car makes more sense to them.
Is there any way to paint the J line livery look better? They remind me of something from the movie Brazil.
@@eottoe2001 Hey appreciate the comment! Yeah SF prices are insane, like next level insane. I'll take a look and see if I can find census tract data for future neighborhood videos, really good idea.
Also unfortunately SF gave up on good looking livery a long, long time ago for MUNI. Nobody but me likes the old LRV "Sunset" Livery so it's dead. Instead we get fog grey and red, which works but yeah I agree we could do better.
Also congrats on the Reds if you're a baseball fan, hope they do well 2nd half of the season!
@@offbrandurbanism we are proud of them.
There is so much SF could do to improve its transit. Sadly, every improvement necessarily comes with a downside, and SF politics are impeccably engineered to give far more power to anyone who would have to deal with the downside than to the many more people who would benefit.
Oh boy, you really nailed it. I feel like that summarizes SF transit and housing policy so well.
Corner of my park getting shade? Veto. Building cut and cover for a subway near your business? Veto. Trying to remove an ugly freeway overpass over your waterfront in 1986? You're not going to believe this but straight to Veto.
Thanks for watching my video and hope to see you next video!
I think the solution to the subway problem is to make the J line surface only. I know that it’s inconvenient to transfer at Church station, but delayed trains are also inconvenient.
Thanx for this film, but sorry one car isn’t a train….greetings from Berlin Germany.
Hey thanks for watching and the comment! Can't wait to visit Berlin, been on my bucket list for ages!
American English is fickle haha if it's on tracks, it's a train here!
You lost me at "every 15 to 20 minutes". That's the fundamental core of its problem right there. Transit is useless unless it runs every few minutes.
Welcome to America haha. Yeah unfortunately Muni Metro doesn't run that often even in peak times unless you in the main tunnel from West Portal to Embarcadero. Hopefully it changes!
And as always appreciate the comment and taking the time to watch my video!
I think "useless" is a bit much, there's transit in my area that runs much less often but serves a purpose. But most people certainly won't use something that only runs twice an hour. I think 15 minutes is about the floor for common usability
It‘s definitely not useless like that, but it is very poor service for a major city like SF. 10 min frequency would be much better and should be expected tbh.
@bahnspotterEU I'll take any improvement haha. Appreciate the comment and great user name!
@@Joesolo13 think more economics are to be investegated also like sometimes after it rains the power lines won't work or tree issues they do have bus suttles but it takes forever and sometimes wish u could take the 14r which makes more people take alternatives and less ppl for the j which i've seen in certain hours not to mention ppl leaving sf or not being able to afford it after they build more housing near balboa station i think it might change or it could get worse as ppl start acting worse nearby?
The J should be kept above ground only and turn on Market Street. The subway was so much better right after it reopened when only the N was using the Duboce portal.
I think the most obvious solution that most people don't see is to have the J line turn onto the surface N stop at Church and Duboce, and continue down the Church st to Ocean Beach stretch. the N could use some extra frequency on surface, and could still continue with the others down Market st, and the J would provide much that extra frequency needed on Judah street!!!!!!!
similar to how the KL operated before the taraval improvement project!!
im sure it runs over the needles, poo, and discarded churches fried chicken boxes just as well as the others ...
I've lived here long enough that I can safely say there is much, much, much less needles or poop in San Francisco than you imagine. Like looking at this video does SF look like that? Not to say SF doesn't have many problems but how did you make your assessment?
Thank you for the engagement! I realize individuals are more than comments, so I'm sorry I sound* harsh. I hope you have a good week!
@@offbrandurbanism im sorry if i offended you, i live near and used to visit occasionally - i hope your area remains comfortable - good week to you too !
I love your content but you are hard to understand because of poor diction. You "swallow" words and mumble others. This tendency is easy to fix.
Hey appreciate the feedback! I will work on it, unfortunately this is sort of how I talk in real like haha. I am have a better audio setup for the next video and plan to get subtitles same day with future videos as well, so hopefully this problem gets resolved in the future.