London DLR P86 & P89 Trains In Germany
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- čas přidán 28. 08. 2015
- London Docklands Light Railway P86 and P89 trains in Essen, Germany as filmed in 1994 and 2012.
The opening scene was filmed at West India Quay station. All other footage is in Essen and shows some of the locations served by the former London transports, plus a driver's eye ride along some of the street tramway section of line.
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Below is more information about the P86 and P89 trains, their doors and why they came to Essen.
The P86 trains were the first type of rolling stock that was used on the DLR when it opened in 1987.
In 1991 they were sold to Essen in Germany. This was because even before the DLR opened it was decided to build a link to Bank Underground station - and the P86 trains were built for a railway which was wholly above ground and therefore did not meet the very stringent fire safety regulations for travelling underground.
The British P89 trains were built to comply with tunnel fire safety requirements but ended up being sold (in 1995) because of two different reasons.
Firstly, the law required emergency exits at the train ends and whilst single train units were seen as complying with this requirement (even though they did not have end doors!) twin units definitely did not - because the lack of end doors meant that it was not possible to walk through from one end of the complete train to the other end.
The other reason why the P89s ended up being sold was that they were not compatible with the higher capacity automated train control system that was going to be installed on the DLR. This new signalling system was needed because the DLR was expanding so much that the original system was no longer suitable. Perhaps in itself this would not have been seen as an impediment, as the B90 trains also needed converting to the newer signalling system, but the B90s were built with end doors - so that when two or three were coupled together passengers could (in an emergency) walk through from one to another. However, with EVAG also wanting the P89 trains and with their replacement meaning that the DLR would only have one type of rolling stock (said with maintenance spares in mind, etc) so in the mid 1990s the P89s went to Essen too.
(Possibly this was the first time ever an automated railway had been converted from one system to another?)
In Essen the P86 trains were fitted with pantographs, drivers cabs etc., and placed into service on route U18 and then also U11, which were wholly "railway" type routes. In this format they retained their DLR red and blue livery. The P89 trains were similarly converted, plus also equipped with track brakes so that they could be used on route U17 which includes sections of street tramway. In addition they were also repainted in Essen yellow and blue livery. In addition, the street tramstops on route U17 were rebuilt to have high level platforms as used by the DLR trains and Essen's all other Light Rail trains when not operating in tramway mode. I feel sure that this also resulted in one little used tramstop being closed, because it did not have protected passenger islands / was somewhere where the trams stopped in the middle of the road and all other traffic also had to stop.
In circa 2005 the P86 trains started being made street compatible and in addition were renumbered and repainted in Essen livery. One of the reasons for this would have been that route U11 was extended over a section of street tramway, which meant that P86s were no longer suitable for that route.
This means that at no time did DLR trains in DLR livery travel through the streets of Essen as street trams, which from the point of view of someone from London is a shame. However, when one remembers that the P89s were built here in the UK (by BREL) so its still nice to have British built trams being used in Germany!
This fleet list shows the present-day situation with the former DLR trains in Essen
bahn-deutschland.de.tl/Docklan...
btw, the link below (to the District Dave forum) suggests that whilst the first of the P89s had the same twin inward folding bat-wing doors as the P86 trains, they were soon converted to single leaf sliding doors, whilst later P89 units were fitted with single leaf doors from the outset. It also refers to when a P86 DLR train did travel underground - to Bank - and also includes other interesting information.
districtdavesforum.co.uk/threa...
10:08 I see the driver enjoying the Lolly eh?
An update: They have been modernized many years ago and they are now running in yellow with a black banner (some trains have a older design with blue and yellow stripes) and they have got new doors. And every train (except of 1) got new LCD-Displays. The name of the operater has been changed, too. The new name of the operator is „Ruhrbahn“. But I have bad news: In a few years every DLR train will be taken out of service because the city of Essen wants to buy new trains.
How different that these trains were allowed in underground sections in Essen, yet were banned from the Bank extension in London in 1991.
+Joe Ross The only things I can think of were:
1) German standards were lower than ours.
2) The Essen tunnels are generally multiple track tunnels - for which different fire standards may be acceptable - whilst the London tunnels are single track 'tube train' tunnels in which space is very restricted.
+citytransportinfo About one third of the tunnels at Essen are single track tunnels which are also used by the P86/89. ;)
+Joschimon Yes, but they have more space than the tunnels in London
"German standards were lower than ours" Nope. Thats not true.
Actually 5230 + 5231 (DLR 01,30) have been in a tunnel fire in Essen...
Very nice video. That garden suburb with the light rail is wonderful! I wish the uk had something like that.
Thank you - I think the New Addington area of the Croydon / south London Tramlink could be seen as a garden suburb and the tram route to there is also largely off-street / on private right of way
Excellent video! 👍
+SimonHellinger Thanks!
1.04,what a rude prick barging in front of the other guy entering the train!
This is an amazing video!
thanks:-)
No problem. I've had an interest in my local railway since I was young so these videos help me out. :-)
Knew they went to Germany, but this is the first time I have seen a video of them. Thought I was watching a DLR video at first, so surprised that they look almost exactly the same. I suppose they could have even kept the DLR name, as Deutschland Light Railway would not be incorrect !
You were lucky to visit Germany in the 80s a cultural shift in time and it's still a super cool country
The 80s were a good time to visit, I did also go in the 60s and 70s as part of family holidays. But I do not remember much from then.
1989 was a fantastic time to visit Berlin. I went in December, which was barely a few months after the wall had opened. Memories from that trip (and April 1990) will stay with me for my entire life. Happily some of what I saw can be seen in my Berlin CZcams films.
Since reunification 1989 Germany has changed a lot. Its way more multicultural and world-open now.
@@metro3932 Reunification was in 1990, not 1989
About the trolley buses in the tunnels (it was called "Spur Bus" -> "Bus on Rails"): The termination of that project was not solely due to funds being allocated elsewhere. A big problem back then was that the overhead wires for the buses had to be left or right of the wire for the trams and subways. Due to the angle, the trolley poles often slipped from the wires in the tunnels, which lead to delays.
Another reason was that trolley buses, while they had their hey-day for a short time in the 1960s, were never popular here. A lot of cities had them, but only for a few years. Trolley buses were gone by the early 1970s. Only two cities still have them, one of them being Solingen.
That's an ad for the Spurbus concept in Essen, from 1987:
czcams.com/video/kjUu5aW_gwQ/video.html
Did u record the last years videos about the tram and trolleybus
Sad news I discovered involving the P86 in Essen. It seems the last P86 in the DLR livery (number 11 from the U.K., 5221 in Essen) is getting repainted. I came across a photo from March 2017 with the train with everything removed except for the empty shell with the DLR livery, either getting scrapped or repainted. Sad news indeed.
Oh dear, but thanks for telling me.
Good video!
Well all your videos are good :)
It’s so bizarre to see these street running in mixed traffic. I know they are light rail vehicles, but in my head they are 3rd rail powered metros still.
Hey there, superb videos! How did you digitalize them from the vhsc tape to your computer?
Greetings from Germany
Hello, Many years ago I bought a pci card for my Applemac computer. This is now 'very old' but it still works. I also have a Pinnacle USB device which works on Windows computers
I should have also said... I have a S-VHS video machine, as my video tapes are S-VHS format.
Greetings from the United Kingdom
Hey, thank you for the response, helps alot! :)
Seems also they added announcements and displays when the moved to Essen (from what I can tell they didn't have that feature when they did operate on the DLR). But the folding doors were an odd choice.
I remember loads of local bus and rail lines in the UK had no announcements or displays in the 90s. In some towns, they still don't.
That very surfaced Dockland light railway in Germany!!!
How many trains has the DLR had, I know it's using 2 types now (full height glass and half height glass on the doors, how many were used before the half height glass trains came into service?
+spinba11 only the P86, P89, B90/B92/B2K (all same design built in batches) and the B07.
Are these units still running (summer 2016)? I'm off to Germany in a month and if so will visit Essen specially to ride a few !
As far as I am aware they are still running, albeit in yellow and blue livery. Route U17 includes some sections of street tramway where they share the road with th general traffic.
They are...and I think it will last many years until they are replaced...
But we do not have any „Original“ anymore...all P89 and P86U, first and last 5211 has been destroyed...
There also right now running
And now its 2020 and they’re still running... at least until 2022/2023 because Ruhrbahn announced that then Essen will get a whole new set of U-Bahn trains!
2023 now and they are still running
Wuppertal has that monorail that goes back to the 1900's worth a trip
Yes, I've been on it - this film dates from a very wet day in December 1990
czcams.com/video/lMKnVZfq3fw/video.html
was this film on the frankfurt u-bahn tram network.
It's interesting that those trains have exactly the same size like the B-cars
+MAANDTO probably because they were designed to the same dimensions.
citytransportinfo the b cars were first
That's because they're literally a B-Wagen with a different bodyshell
@@CitytransportInfoplus The DLR Trains were built by a german Factory, the same that built the B Cars.
@@metro3932 That's nonsense. The Docklands LRVs were built by Linke-Hoffmann-Busch, while the B LRVs where built by DUEWAG.
I like the garden suburb
+Mega Swampert 123
I found it inspirational... gave me ideas for what could be here in the UK. This webpage (from my website) uses some of the ideas...
citytransport.info/Lawn.htm
Simon
The bad thing about it is that if someone sets it on fire the whole suburb would be in a blaze within 30minutes
+Mega Swampert 123 doubt it also how slow do you think the German fire department are?
ejcmoorhouse sloow no offence
+Mega Swampert 123
yikes, possibly it would be but that sort of concept is not something I even thought about!
From what I've learnt from discussing forest fires with an Australian friend who lives in a rural area and a few years ago almost had to flee a major forest fire, a lot depends on wind speeds, directions and whether its high summer when everything is tinder dry or during the wet season.
At the last station filmed here, why did it not use the right track and used the left one instead?
Was this the terminus station Margarethenhöhe ? If so, I do not know. sorry.
citytransportinfo yeah I was talking abt Margarethenhöhe
Because there is only One Train, but they buildt 2 sides for the possibility to construct a bigger line
Unfortunately even 5211 is gone for ever now...shame...loved to traveled U18 with this one...
That is the one train above all others which should have been preserved - because its the train that HM The Queen travelled on when the system first opened.
citytransportinfo They demolished it...
Am I right in thinking that the P89 trains had sliding doors when in use on the DLR, and the P86 trains had the bus-style folding doors, and then they received sliding doors when they were refurbished for street running?
+bakedbeanishdragon ah, and that is the question which explains why the film was made on Saturday night - rather than Thursday night!
Different people were saying different things... in the end I worked out that what you said about the P86 is correct, however it seems that the first of the P89s also had twin inward opening doors but during production this was changed so that the later deliveries had single leaf sliding doors and eventually the rest of the P89s were modified to suit.
I plan to post more information plus links of related interest to the video text and will reply to you again when this has been done.
citytransportinfo
Ok, thank you for the reply, I understand now.
+bakedbeanishdragon Sorry that its taken me a week but I have now added a lot more information to the film text. This includes a link which is about the P86 and P89 trains... and talks about the conversion of the doors in the P89s.
districtdavesforum.co.uk/thread/8600/when-old-trains-last-run
Simon
+citytransportinfo This is very useful information, thank you Simon.
In 2050:
96 stock trains in Berlin metro
Why was the DLR operating in Germany? I thought it's in London.
The DLR is in London, but some DLR trains were sold to Essen in Germany and for a few years the Germans used these trains in DLR livery. Nowadays the former DLR trains are in yellow livery.
its sad to see them lose their historic DLR livery do you know if some still have it
I am only 13 so I wasn't alive when they were in use in london on the dlr so I was hopping they still had the DLR livery in essen because I may be going to germany some time in the futre
Hello, I think that there is just one train unit which still retains its London livery, however I am not 100% sure
much thanks I realy want to see the p89/86 in the dlr livery in person
They so look like the same ones that have been running in England on the DLR Line.
+Waleed Arif Originally these ran on the DLR in London.
I doubt that safety standards are lower in Germany but I am open to correction. Who build those units and what consequences arose out of that "fiasco"?
+Martin Bitter part of the issue about safety standards is that in Essen the trains travel in twin track tunnels whilst in London the DLR tunnels are single track, and for these the safety standards are different. The P86 trains were built in Germany, but to a specification designed for surface use... not for tunnels. The P89 trains were built by British Rail Engineering Ltd (BREL) and designed for tunnel use, but only as single unit trains.
There was no fiasco, the trains were sold to Essen because Essen wanted more trains.
The original DLR did not have tunnels; it was only because of the Canary Wharf Tower and the desire for a better link with the City area of London near to Bank station that the tunnels were built. The government was pleased as this meant that there was much investment being made. Local people however would have liked for investment in community things, like schools, playing fields, etc. But that is a different topic.
Essen have single tubes too !
I thought the dlr was only in London
It is in London, but some DLR trains were sold to Essen in Germany and for a few years the Germans used these trains in DLR livery. Nowadays the former DLR trains are in yellow livery.
It's you again
I wonder if they'll get out current DLR trains when they are replaced in a couple of years 🤔
Nope, ordered new at CAD
Eww, the main station in Essen looked really ugly in pale yellow. I only know the station with its really cool blue design now
Why do I hear a cummins like engine...?
+dennis trident william
where in the film?
when your ride it
I can hear some sort of diesel engine
+dennis trident william It may be the air compressor (for brakes)
+lohphat through the whole train ride?
If there's a constant leak in the pressure system, maybe.
Or could be a bad air conditioning/heating unit.
Xs
Und Deutsche haben die alten Kisten gekauft ?
Ja 😂
Die Briten spritzen auf die Wagen ab, und die Essener hassen die Wagen wie die Pest
@@Flektor-eo1ro wieso eigentlich? Ist doch im Prinzip auch nur nen b-wagen
Selbe technik wie die b-wagen, war eine wartungstechnisch sinnvolle Anwendung
@@the_retag Rein wagenbaulich sind die Docklands zwar an den B-Wagen angelehnt, technisch sind es jedoch völlig unterschiedliche Fahrzeuge. Die technische bzw. elektrische Ausrüstung ist seit dem ersten Tage in Essen an außerordentlich störanfällig, und die Ausfallquote der Docklands ist deutlich höher als bei den „richtigen“ B-Wagen.
Wie kommst du darauf, dass die Docklands technisch mit den B-Wagen identisch sind?
Nooo
THAT'S STEALING GERMANY!!
The Germans did buy them!
Oh ok
RobloxMaster010 And the Trains was build in germany. The automatic system called "seltrac" was also invented in germany.
They stole