Nice explanation. We work in our company with TW Audio with Powersoft K3 amplifiers. We use mostly the B30 double 15" sub and when I need cardioid I go for the array with phase reversed rear subs. Works best for me. Otherwise we still have some Martin Blackline S218 double 18" subs in stock. Also really nice in cardioid. :)
Really interesting video. I have a qsc KS212c, the benefits are incredibles on my dj work. I look to arm my own cardioid sub, this video is very helpful.
Seems to me it would be best to place microphones and cancelation speakers nearest to the areas of the performers instead of trying to deal with all the problems you very clearly explain. Localized noise cancelation is by far more efficient and effective way to deal with the problems you are trying to solve.
I think you forgot to mention the major drawback of cardioid arrays as used by Nexo and many other manufacturers, which is worse transient response than non-cardioid setups or endfired setups. The wave of the signal from the back sub that sums up with the front sub is one period behind than the wave of the signal emitted by the front sub. If we had just sine sounds if the same level and frequency aqll day, that wouldn't matter. Since music is dynamic in level in frequency, it quite matters. Of course there are situations where a non-cardioid stack would be even worse, like with heavy reflections from the back wall behind the stage indoors, where an inverted back sub cardioid is the lesser of two evils. If you got the space to do a three or more row endfired solution, why not go hybrid to get the best of both worlds? The last row (farthest away from the audience) will be used as inverted sub as Nexo intended, the others will work as endfired. The result: The inverted sub in the back will pick up a lot of the begin and end transients a regular endfired array emits to the back and the endfired subs will greatly lessen the transient response problems of a regular inverted back sub array.
If you have a cardioid setting, this usually does the necessary polarity and delay settings for you within the setting's parameters. If you're building the processing from scratch (not using a factory-built cardioid setting) then you need to apply these yourself.
A very helpful video! Thanks! I have a question. This is for our church's sound system . I don't have a digital processor in hand so I'm trying to go analog for now. I placed two speakers, with one wired reversed and placed behind the other. Distance is 1/4 wavelength (54 cm, 160 Hz). I found that volume in the back is much lower than the front (from about 6dB to 15 dB difference). Am I implementing cardioid configuration properly? I used a pdf by Joan La Roda (DAS Audio) as reference for the setup. Both speaker are power from a power amp, from different channels, fed by same aux signal.
the physical separation is the first half of the equation. What you will also want to do is delay the rear sub's audio signal by that same amount if you can.
What do you think about using cardioid subs, like for example a d&b y sub in a front row configuration, with 8 subs, where two central subs have no delay, next sub from both sides have some delay, and the farther from center the bigger delay is. We use such config indoors and looking for improvement. It gives wider horizontal coverage but less back cancellation.
This is called a sub arc. It is not a true cardioid setup on it's own, but it does have some directional control. You can either build 2 lines or reverse 1 box for every 2 or 3, doing a conventional cardioid design! but then add additional delays as necessary to do a true cardioid arc array. The real benefit to a sub arc setup is to eliminate the power alley and provide more even coverage, while also widening the dispersion field that tends to get narrow when you do a line of subs across the stage.
They have this paper explaining why they choose their synergy horn solution over line arrays Devin Sheets. www.danleysoundlabs.com/danley/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/line-array-paper.pdf quite a good read. Here is also an interview with Professor Doug Jones of Danley Sound Labs czcams.com/video/Mz5tIAcxJB8/video.html
I can't speak specific, but from what I've seen they use much of the similar ideas of line array and/or subwoofer acoustics engineering technology, but put everything prebuilt into one box... For instance the Jericho is basically one big line array in a single enclosure (specifically the hf side)! Of course they will never market it that way because that eliminates the theory that they are doing things differently and better! This concept does give them more ability to keep elements closer together or have more space for lower (mid) frequency sub-enclosures within the enclosure. As for low and mid Frequencies, they incorporate horn loading to control dispersion into the design, rather than relying purely on multiple drivers over distance (array length) to control dispersion.
Nice explanation. We work in our company with TW Audio with Powersoft K3 amplifiers. We use mostly the B30 double 15" sub and when I need cardioid I go for the array with phase reversed rear subs. Works best for me. Otherwise we still have some Martin Blackline S218 double 18" subs in stock. Also really nice in cardioid. :)
05:33 mind blown
Well done Devin !! Very helpful.
Really interesting video.
I have a qsc KS212c, the benefits are incredibles on my dj work. I look to arm my own cardioid sub, this video is very helpful.
You could achieve different delay per frequency by adding an all pass filter
Seems to me it would be best to place microphones and cancelation speakers nearest to the areas of the performers instead of trying to deal with all the problems you very clearly explain. Localized noise cancelation is by far more efficient and effective way to deal with the problems you are trying to solve.
I think you forgot to mention the major drawback of cardioid arrays as used by Nexo and many other manufacturers, which is worse transient response than non-cardioid setups or endfired setups. The wave of the signal from the back sub that sums up with the front sub is one period behind than the wave of the signal emitted by the front sub. If we had just sine sounds if the same level and frequency aqll day, that wouldn't matter. Since music is dynamic in level in frequency, it quite matters. Of course there are situations where a non-cardioid stack would be even worse, like with heavy reflections from the back wall behind the stage indoors, where an inverted back sub cardioid is the lesser of two evils.
If you got the space to do a three or more row endfired solution, why not go hybrid to get the best of both worlds? The last row (farthest away from the audience) will be used as inverted sub as Nexo intended, the others will work as endfired. The result: The inverted sub in the back will pick up a lot of the begin and end transients a regular endfired array emits to the back and the endfired subs will greatly lessen the transient response problems of a regular inverted back sub array.
Did you watch the whole video?
@@devinlsheets_alphasound I thought I did, but I was very tired. I might have fallen asleep for a minute or two, now that you mention it.
@@jensdroessler3575 lol maybe we should put a bull horn sound effect every three minutes in our videos to keep people awake until the end!
@@devinlsheets_alphasound What do you mean? His question is good. you did not touch on that.
@@DimitarHaralambiev I touched on this in the rest of the video after the portion they were referring to
Very inspiring videos, Devin.
Thanks!
Обалдеть .
Это действительно так. Двигать колонки, чтоб получить лучший звук . И добавлять дилей
If i set subwoofer in cardioid mode. Should i turn on the phase shift 180°?
Phase and delay
If you have a cardioid setting, this usually does the necessary polarity and delay settings for you within the setting's parameters. If you're building the processing from scratch (not using a factory-built cardioid setting) then you need to apply these yourself.
прекрасная информация ( если бы я знал английский)... автор молодец!!!
Thank you for this information!
Well explained mate. Nice graphics too. A few small mistakes in it but we'll put together and will help a lot of people trying to understand it.
Thank you. Very informative.
非常喜欢你的分享
Thank you! ^.^
If you have vertically-stacked subs, does reversing the top sub cabinet tilt the cardioid null upward by 45 degrees?
It would! Although sometimes the floor itself can also change how the pattern works a bit.
this is great info
A very helpful video! Thanks!
I have a question. This is for our church's sound system
.
I don't have a digital processor in hand so I'm trying to go analog for now. I placed two speakers, with one wired reversed and placed behind the other. Distance is 1/4 wavelength (54 cm, 160 Hz). I found that volume in the back is much lower than the front (from about 6dB to 15 dB difference). Am I implementing cardioid configuration properly?
I used a pdf by Joan La Roda (DAS Audio) as reference for the setup. Both speaker are power from a power amp, from different channels, fed by same aux signal.
the physical separation is the first half of the equation. What you will also want to do is delay the rear sub's audio signal by that same amount if you can.
What is the software you used in 18m38 ? Thank you
this is one of the weirder nexo ads i've seen
I'm wondering how you don't have a direct contact at Nexo yet. I'm sure your content directs them quite the chunk of business.
I don't think potential buyers watch videos like this
What do you think about using cardioid subs, like for example a d&b y sub in a front row configuration, with 8 subs, where two central subs have no delay, next sub from both sides have some delay, and the farther from center the bigger delay is. We use such config indoors and looking for improvement. It gives wider horizontal coverage but less back cancellation.
This is called a sub arc. It is not a true cardioid setup on it's own, but it does have some directional control. You can either build 2 lines or reverse 1 box for every 2 or 3, doing a conventional cardioid design! but then add additional delays as necessary to do a true cardioid arc array.
The real benefit to a sub arc setup is to eliminate the power alley and provide more even coverage, while also widening the dispersion field that tends to get narrow when you do a line of subs across the stage.
Good stuff. Your explanations are well crafted. imo (999th subscriber)
999 wow lol thanks for the sub!
Rad!
is this an ad tho
Thank you for sharing this! Could you explain Danley Sound Labs horn tech with a similar video?
They have this paper explaining why they choose their synergy horn solution over line arrays Devin Sheets. www.danleysoundlabs.com/danley/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/line-array-paper.pdf
quite a good read. Here is also an interview with Professor Doug Jones of Danley Sound Labs
czcams.com/video/Mz5tIAcxJB8/video.html
We aren't familiar with that product yet. Perhaps some day!
I can't speak specific, but from what I've seen they use much of the similar ideas of line array and/or subwoofer acoustics engineering technology, but put everything prebuilt into one box... For instance the Jericho is basically one big line array in a single enclosure (specifically the hf side)! Of course they will never market it that way because that eliminates the theory that they are doing things differently and better!
This concept does give them more ability to keep elements closer together or have more space for lower (mid) frequency sub-enclosures within the enclosure.
As for low and mid Frequencies, they incorporate horn loading to control dispersion into the design, rather than relying purely on multiple drivers over distance (array length) to control dispersion.
Hi
I will no longer watch these videos due to forced commercialization