That's what I was pondering, I just couldn't put it into words. Aesthetically they look nice. I could imagine they may help in not getting poked by cut string. Sometimes it can be difficult getting your fingers between the tuners without affecting another string. I could probably find a few more possible advantages. I think with the need to throw a wrench into the sprocket might not be worth the extra time and money to change out!
Actually, not so much outside the box as they are clearly inspired by the steinberger tuning machines (althought not a copy). If these look more sturdy than the steinberger, the later don't need an allen key.
They weren't thinking at all, let alone "outside" of any box. They just wanted to do it different at any price. Dragging the string over a 90 degree edge is such a bad idea.
I agree completely, I only need my jewelers screwdriver set to slightly tighten the Gotoh tuners maybe once a year on my Epiphone & it stays in tune without any problem & my Fender tuners also do the job on my Partscaster. The "Riot" brand do look cool & different I must say though.
One thing he didn't mention, but looks like a possible advantage is that the break angle of the strings may be sharper since the string practically goes straight into the headstock.
On the other hand, on a Strat for example, if the new break angle is significantly increased there may be a need to relieve the nut slots on the headstock side. These tuners have good reviews for their accuracy and tuning stability, but they are just a mess in terms of design.
@@spiderfan1974 yeah I get what you’re saying about the floyd, but guitarist that use a guitar with a Floyd usually compensate until the song is over and switch guitars, but imagine these are on Stevie ray Vaughn’s strat, then that amazing clip of him doing a live string change would never exist, I just feel like they’re over complicating things for something that is subjectively uglier, so there’s really no advantage to these for me. It’s not functionally convenient, and it not good looking
@@MrMusicfreak95 with those much like a Floyd you get your back up axe or #2 if you prefer. That is if you are lucky enough to be in a band with two or more guitarists. Your friend or tech can have your work horse back to you when your done with the song if they know what they are doing. I've been the "guitar tech" for the night many o' times. Get into the show for free see it from the side of the stage. Just hand your buddy a fresh guitar and be a combat medic if need be. Not much would change with these tuners or a floyd.
@@toneseeker4968 your missing out if you set one up right you have to beat that guitar out of tune. I say this now and I'll do it. But I'm gonna tempt fate here. I haven't broken a string accidentally in years. Have I done it on porpoise yeah once or twice. If your competent at guitar string breaks don't happen that often. Unless it's not yours and your friend uses 8's and you use 10's. Then you owe your friend a set of strings but if it's your guitar you'll know when to stop bending.
I got a set of brass ones after watching this video and all I can say I'm filled with regret. One tuner had a bad bearing so I emailed them with the issue asking for a new bearing cause I'm handy and understanding. They offered a new tuner but never followed through. I ordered a single tuner to try and move forward on my build but they sent the wrong one. Another email back and forth resulting in an apology and a refund for the wrong tuner but no replacement so far. Stick with steinberger people!
I was looking for something like this- a tuner that wasn't limited by having to go along the edge of the headstock! You can take a blank headstock, put the tuners EXACTLY in line with the strings, and make the headstock any shape you want to! 😎
Agreed. That was my first thought. Do you want your headstock taking that kind of stress while in a hard case? Especially LP players. They're known for head stock breaks.
That was my thought exactly; in a case with limited clearance under the headstock; they could put pressure on the headstock inside the case. I would need to see exactly how deep they are to be certain that I am correct about that.
I would be afraid that the strings would break faster at the point where they are bent in a rather small radius around the entrance hole rim. On standard tuning machines that bend radius is way larger.
@@patricktaylor8657 There is a lot of friction involved _after_ the hole in the peg because normally strings are wound several times around the peg, and this reduces the tension _at_ the hole (and the sharp bend). But in this case of the entrance hole rim the whole tension of the string is lying on this hard bend.
The need for the Allen key is a deal breaker. Really cool other that that though. Maybe if they were to add a small thumbwheel and ditch the allen key I would be willing to try them.
They are way less practical. You are right. It requires that you "loop all the unwound string" hmmmmmmm so exactly like the Wilkinson tuners with their EZ lock design. Yeah I agree with the other guy too who said it was a step backwards in engineering, because it is, there is literally other tuning machines that do the same thing cheaper, more effective, more practical and more aesthetically pleasing.
@@ZitherBeast is it though? Its a pretty played out joke. Low hanging fruit. Plus they are nice guitars. People only make fun of it cause they can’t afford a real les paul.
@@Ottophil Gotta learn to laugh my man, I like what I have, but funny is funny. Gibson has their big boy pants on, and if they don't they should. It's funny.
@@Ottophil lots of us have had numerous Gibson's. The precision and craftsmanship is a joke. 50 years of trading on a name. Acoustics fine. Known design flaws on numerous electrics.
Interesting, but I agree with other commenters here: - they don't look as nice as a good set of normal locking tuners - they don't fit in guitar cases as easily as normal locking tuners - they require a hex key, unlike normal locking tuners - they require an extra looping of the unwound strings, which is a hassle compared to normal locking tuners Against all those inconveniences, the only advantage appears to be that they're slightly lighter than the tuners they replaced, and maybe that the position on the back of the headstock is a bit more convenient to your hand while you're tuning them. That's just not enough of a benefit to overcome the drawbacks. Not dissing the video, of course! Darrell, your stuff is always fun and informative; this vid is no exception. But when I say it's "informative," well...the information I'm taking away is that I'll pass on these tuners.
EPIC! This is the kind of cutting edge "wish I had thought of that" wonderful reviews this channel is well known for. I only hope Darrell never ever runs out of material, Amen.
@@harry_mair idk why you guys are hating on Gibson. Their guitars are classics. They do have their problems but that doesn’t mean their bad instruments...
I thought of this before since I'm a small custom guitar tuner maker called Perona. It wasn't new either, same concept had been marketed by Steinberg and another company I can't recall the brand name. Did a concept design and nah, decided it really didn't offer any advantage over a standard 18:1 worm gear design. But it's always inspiring to see new concepts being brought to market. 😀
I’d rather have the Steinberger gearless tuners on a Firebird. No Allen key required to change the strings and the knobs on the back don’t stick out as far on the back.
Thanks for reviewing this product. These are a similar concept to Steinberger tuners which I installed on my last build. Steinberger's are slightly lighter at 29.5 grams and much faster to change strings. These riot tuners look great from the front (very neat). They look industrial from the back. The Steinbergers are neat at the back but more industrial from the front ..... but .... thats what enables the faster string change.
Needing to keep track of a hex key makes it a non-starter for me. Looks *sorta* cool from the front I guess, but really seems to be trying to solve a problem that doesn’t exist. I can think of lots of better stuff to spend $100 bucks on.
Yep, too much mucking around, although they seem to be top quality. I'd say we're looking at about $200 AUD by the time we get them shipped down to Aussie which makes them reasonably expensive. Great video as usual, thanks.
Based on the thumbnail I assumed I wouldn’t dig these tuners, but after the vid, I really like em. I hope you do a long term review. Thanks for sharing these.
Very cool! I appreciate the concept at first look, they are almost like a "Space Age Banjo Tuner!" They should sell the tuners with a bracket to hold the Allen key on the back of the headstock like the guitars with a Floyd Rose trem
I could see these being useful on the lower neck of a double-neck, where the buttons of standard tuners might be too close to the other headstock. I don't think I want to pay a hundred bucks for that convenience though.
Great video! 2 thoughts: - An advantage of this design that I didn't hear you cover is that the break angle will basically be as low as possible (barring slotted designs), so on non-angled headstocks this should help out immensely with regards to break angles and such. - I think Firebird enthusiasts would really enjoy these tuners! They would probably mean less neck-diving, for sure, as they are lighter, and also fit the general aesthetic, as the buttons themselves aren't visible from the front, just like on banjo tuners.
I think I can also see a potential issue where the strings pass over the metal edge of the tuner front string insertion hole, as the string at this point Is having to bend 90 degrees where it enters the hole to the tuner; thus potentially creating a friction point/sticking point.
Definitely put your guitar in the case and measure the gap from the bottom of the case to the back of the tuners before buying these. If you have a case that is designed for angled headstocks it might work since it drops away from the higher string tuners.
@@David-uq2uk thanks for clearing that up. I was worried they might be too long and pose a risk to a guitar falling backwards, hitting the floor tuner-first and the headstock absorbing the impact.
@@abrahama2643 Harder that normal tuners. The reason why is because the hole the string goes through has a break angle of 90 degrees, while a normal tuner only has to deal with the break angle coming off from the string tree which has a less drastic break angle of around 10 to 20 degrees depending on string. So it creates more friction over the extra angle. However I will say that the difference should be small and would likely need a side by side comparison to feel that difference. But just because its not "that" noticeable doesn't mean its a good design, this is still a bad design because cheaper ones work on the same principal. No reason to reinvent the wheel on this one.
@@evilcowboy Good points. I agree. One of the first things I noticed is the sharp angle going into the hole. It seems like if you do lots of fine tuning, the edge will chew away at the string.
I love the way they look there's nothing else out there that has that sort of appeal. I like how the wire is hidden on the back side. When you first trimmed off the excess I honestly believe that you had taken the wires back off until I locked a little closer.
I’ll never forget in the early 1980’s after I designed the Genesis G-6 Illusion model guitar for Schecter in Dallas. As part of our deal they gave me a Schecter Strat with their Schaller made locking bridge Floyd style whammy with a locking nut. It was a beautiful Mary Kay style Strat, only it had the latest floating locking whammy system. My very first gig where I used it was at Mother Blues, in Dallas, and that night guitar legend Bugs Henderson stopped by to sit in with my band. I was so excited and he got on stage and we started ripping it up. About halfway through the first tune my high E string had somehow slipped beyond the range of the fine tuner do I got out the Allen wrench to readjust it. I instantly dropped the Allen wrench onto a stage covered with old beer drenched and gaffer taped up shag carpet and it was dark in the club and onstage. I spent the next 20 minutes crawling around on this nasty carpet looking for the tiny black Allen wrench. I sold that guitar the next day. Any tuning gear that requires a separate tool to adjust is stupid AF.
Darrell, the only thing missing on this episode is your incredible playing , I know that it should not drastically change or alter the tone or Sustain , still love to hear you play.
@@kenz2756 they're rioting all over Canada right now, far more justifiably than in the USA, as their government just extended and expanded the couf19 lockdown and relevant restrictions AGAIN. Ontario is on fire right now, from what my friends across the north border tell me.
Hey, I've got a set of those that I have yet to install. I purchased mine back before Riot tuners had that name. He was only using them on his travel guitar builds at that time. Surprised you didn't show tuning up process to demonstrate how the low-ratio tuners work. Either way, nice video, "Braun!"
@Dave Stevens I upgraded to a strobe tuner for the first time last year. I want to make that wheel stop spinning so bad... I'd happily take 4 full turns per semitone, lol.
You'd probably discover a few other new words if you didn't have a good set of flush trim cutters with these. They do seem like they'd be more comfortable to tune with than the standard tuners though.
I heard about these a few months ago but was a bit skeptical. But your vid convinced me. Figured I’d give em a try and I’m now in love lol. I put em on my Gibson Firebird.
Something else I noticed that you didn't mention is, unlike with standard tuning machines on a strat, the strings are perfectly straight from the nut to the tuners, meaning that there's no bend. With standard tuners, the strings will have a slight bend sideways at the nut. That lack of a bend is going to increase your tuning stability, especially if you use the vibrato bar, since it reduces friction. I like these. May need to consider these for a couple of my guitars.
On a Gibson 3 + 3 headstock would probably make the tuning stability worse since you can't wind the D & G strings "up" the post to alleviate some of that break angle.
I am really digging these. I'd actually design a guitar around them to make them really fit. They could look really slick but I definitly think it depends on the guitar you pair them with
Nice Review Darrell! I can see a real problem at a Show. You would definitely HAVE to bring a backup Guitar in case a String broke. Two, if you lost or misplaced the Allen Key you’d be sunk altogether! Thanks, please keep up the Good Work! Love your Channel and Content! Cheers from Salem, Ohio US.
How cool! I saw an interview with EVH where he said that one of the things that he did was ‘twist’ the bridge ends of the strings as he tightened them at the headstock so that they weren’t generating excess torsion. I suppose that tuners like this will prevent that!
It looks like it would def help compared to typical staggered tuners, but a good low friction string tree (or 2...) is still a good idea no matter *what* for the flat/6-in-line/Fender-style headstocks. Staggered tuners alone don’t help *enough* for a proper break angle over the nut to where there’s no maddening side effects Just my opinion
My classic 60's player Strat has holes in the tuning peg where you poke your string and tighten up, really nice finish and stability. Wouldn't fancy changing that design personally!!
That's innovative for sure! I'm pretty impressed by the weight, they looked way heavier than the standard locking tuners. Maybe I'm wrong but it feels like it might me too easy to accidentally turn the barrel and put your guitar out of tube? It kinda looked like it needed way less than a regular tuning key to turn.
They are apparently 40:1 gear ratio, so more than twice as precise (takes *more* movement to get the same given pitch “distance”) than typical tuners. So it takes more turns to get it up to tune but with advantage of having control and precision, tho I’ve never tried these specific tuners
These remind me of Steinberger tuners. I’ve seen a few people put them on Strats for a similar look. I personally don’t have much experience with the Steinberger tuners but I believe they work similarly as well.
I made some out of parts from lowes for bout 15 bucks and a few extra additional holes pretty cool lil inexpensive experiment. Im still not that great at playing guitar but i really get into the mods and setups
I had a Les Paul Future with those Steinberger keys. Looked weird, but found them useful for precision tuning. They look way better on the firebird for sure
Lately I’ve doing a deep dive into the life of Eddie VanHalen and I have this crazy notion that had he not pass,that these two would of got along amazingly as they both seem to do all sorts of crazy things with guitars to see what sorta tones they can create.
I think with these, aesthetics are probably the last thing that'd come to mind. Seems like they'd go well with certain headless guitar designs, and I do appreciate the 40:1 ratio.
These are basically a take on the Steinberger gearless tuners, but the Steinbergers don't stick out as far at the back of the headstock. Prices are pretty much identical too. These are cleaner aesthetically as the Steinbergers have a locking system on the front side, although you tighten them by hand, so you don't need an allen key.
Thanks for tuning in 😁😁😁
Part of me wants to press dislike on this comment.
It is our pleasure!
Of course Darrell
LOL
Happy to *drop* in, glad the door was *open*
I feel like these are a solution to a problem no one has.
Plus, you're going to need a deeper guitar case...
That's what I was pondering, I just couldn't put it into words.
Aesthetically they look nice.
I could imagine they may help in not getting poked by cut string.
Sometimes it can be difficult getting your fingers between the tuners without affecting another string.
I could probably find a few more possible advantages. I think with the need to throw a wrench into the sprocket might not be worth the extra time and money to change out!
I would catch the tuners sticking off the back on so many things. Also I never needed an Allen key to string my guitar.
BINGO
I'd only use them on a Steinberger with gearless tuners
The way Darrell can slip jabs in while still speaking like it's a compliment. He's approaching mother-in-law skill levels.
AND without them having to be only during a holiday dinner.
Hahahaha
LOL
Hahahaha!
Lol!
I love that companies are trying new stuff and thinking outside the box, but these seem like more trouble than they're worth...
Actually, not so much outside the box as they are clearly inspired by the steinberger tuning machines (althought not a copy). If these look more sturdy than the steinberger, the later don't need an allen key.
They weren't thinking at all, let alone "outside" of any box. They just wanted to do it different at any price. Dragging the string over a 90 degree edge is such a bad idea.
I agree completely, I only need my jewelers screwdriver set to slightly tighten the Gotoh tuners maybe once a year on my Epiphone & it stays in tune without any problem & my Fender tuners also do the job on my Partscaster. The "Riot" brand do look cool & different I must say though.
Just a point: Were these designed by Felix Wankel?
No need changing something that works. These look hideous.
One thing he didn't mention, but looks like a possible advantage is that the break angle of the strings may be sharper since the string practically goes straight into the headstock.
Was thinking the same thing, definitely a better break angle overall. Also 40:1 gears really appeals to me personally
Yes, in fact I was wondering if it was enough to eliminate the need for the string trees.
GuitarSquatch
Agree.
On the other hand, on a Strat for example, if the new break angle is significantly increased there may be a need to relieve the nut slots on the headstock side.
These tuners have good reviews for their accuracy and tuning stability, but they are just a mess in terms of design.
That's what caught my interest, too.
Break string on stage...”hold on guys can’t find my Allen wrench!”
How's it any different from a guitar with a floyd?
@@spiderfan1974 yeah I get what you’re saying about the floyd, but guitarist that use a guitar with a Floyd usually compensate until the song is over and switch guitars, but imagine these are on Stevie ray Vaughn’s strat, then that amazing clip of him doing a live string change would never exist, I just feel like they’re over complicating things for something that is subjectively uglier, so there’s really no advantage to these for me. It’s not functionally convenient, and it not good looking
@@MrMusicfreak95 with those much like a Floyd you get your back up axe or #2 if you prefer. That is if you are lucky enough to be in a band with two or more guitarists. Your friend or tech can have your work horse back to you when your done with the song if they know what they are doing. I've been the "guitar tech" for the night many o' times. Get into the show for free see it from the side of the stage. Just hand your buddy a fresh guitar and be a combat medic if need be. Not much would change with these tuners or a floyd.
@@spiderfan1974 No difference! That's why I don't own a guitar with a floyd, either!
@@toneseeker4968 your missing out if you set one up right you have to beat that guitar out of tune. I say this now and I'll do it. But I'm gonna tempt fate here. I haven't broken a string accidentally in years. Have I done it on porpoise yeah once or twice. If your competent at guitar string breaks don't happen that often. Unless it's not yours and your friend uses 8's and you use 10's. Then you owe your friend a set of strings but if it's your guitar you'll know when to stop bending.
I got a set of brass ones after watching this video and all I can say I'm filled with regret. One tuner had a bad bearing so I emailed them with the issue asking for a new bearing cause I'm handy and understanding. They offered a new tuner but never followed through. I ordered a single tuner to try and move forward on my build but they sent the wrong one. Another email back and forth resulting in an apology and a refund for the wrong tuner but no replacement so far. Stick with steinberger people!
I was looking for something like this- a tuner that wasn't limited by having to go along the edge of the headstock! You can take a blank headstock, put the tuners EXACTLY in line with the strings, and make the headstock any shape you want to! 😎
Hammerhead baby
I'm picturing those bottoming out inside a lot of hard cases and fitting really weird inside of soft cases.
Good point.
I was about to say pretty much the same thing.
Agreed. That was my first thought. Do you want your headstock taking that kind of stress while in a hard case? Especially LP players. They're known for head stock breaks.
That was my thought exactly; in a case with limited clearance under the headstock; they could put pressure on the headstock inside the case. I would need to see exactly how deep they are to be certain that I am correct about that.
@@fredkorkosz9370 those are not worth the effort
Man does that actually fit back in the case? They stick out so far!
thats what I was thinking
@@metalguru01 They probably sell compatible guitar cases as well, with 6 holes drilled where the headstock sits.
@@teiltje I bet anything to fool us into thinking we need another gadget lol
they probably dont protrude any further than the body of the guitar
From the looks in the video, this guitar hangs on the wall, so it doesn’t matter at the moment.
I would be afraid that the strings would break faster at the point where they are bent in a rather small radius around the entrance hole rim. On standard tuning machines that bend radius is way larger.
Yeah, but at the same time that’s the price for the versatility of the system.
That's what I thought. It might help, if the holes wear with time.
Not really, if you think about the hole where they go into the peg.
@@patricktaylor8657 There is a lot of friction involved _after_ the hole in the peg because normally strings are wound several times around the peg, and this reduces the tension _at_ the hole (and the sharp bend). But in this case of the entrance hole rim the whole tension of the string is lying on this hard bend.
3:05 I checked the website; the thickest gauge you can use with these is a 56!
The need for the Allen key is a deal breaker. Really cool other that that though. Maybe if they were to add a small thumbwheel and ditch the allen key I would be willing to try them.
Yeah just a horrible design IMO
stick on back of head stock with 2 sided tape like Eddie would ???? lol
@@je-2024_1 Still a hassle.
Anyone with a Floyd already has to have allens in their case.
And anyone with vintage tuners has to have string cutter in their case
I honestly can't see how this would be more pratical than any other kind of tuning machine lol
Less practical. you'll need an extraordinarily deep guitar case....
yeah, to me they look like a step backwards in engineering...plus you know..they are ugly..lol
These would be great for custom headstocks, because they'd allow for designs with straight string pull in mind.
mostly for the clean look I think
They are way less practical. You are right. It requires that you "loop all the unwound string" hmmmmmmm so exactly like the Wilkinson tuners with their EZ lock design. Yeah I agree with the other guy too who said it was a step backwards in engineering, because it is, there is literally other tuning machines that do the same thing cheaper, more effective, more practical and more aesthetically pleasing.
Another refined gimmick. The Allen key is like mom reminding you to 'dont forget to take your little brother'
I cannot imagine any time these would be a good idea, except a serious dedication to an industrial aesthetic.
The way you call out Gibson all the time is AMAZING!!!!!!
IT's freaking HILARIOUS
@@ZitherBeast is it though? Its a pretty played out joke. Low hanging fruit. Plus they are nice guitars. People only make fun of it cause they can’t afford a real les paul.
@@Ottophil Gotta learn to laugh my man, I like what I have, but funny is funny. Gibson has their big boy pants on, and if they don't they should. It's funny.
@@Ottophil lots of us have had numerous Gibson's. The precision and craftsmanship is a joke. 50 years of trading on a name. Acoustics fine. Known design flaws on numerous electrics.
@@Ottophil A real Les Paul has more QC issues than a chinese copy these days.
I guess you can call it a “Frankenstrat” now!
@@NoName-gz2kk XD
Interesting, but I agree with other commenters here:
- they don't look as nice as a good set of normal locking tuners
- they don't fit in guitar cases as easily as normal locking tuners
- they require a hex key, unlike normal locking tuners
- they require an extra looping of the unwound strings, which is a hassle compared to normal locking tuners
Against all those inconveniences, the only advantage appears to be that they're slightly lighter than the tuners they replaced, and maybe that the position on the back of the headstock is a bit more convenient to your hand while you're tuning them.
That's just not enough of a benefit to overcome the drawbacks.
Not dissing the video, of course! Darrell, your stuff is always fun and informative; this vid is no exception.
But when I say it's "informative," well...the information I'm taking away is that I'll pass on these tuners.
EPIC! This is the kind of cutting edge "wish I had thought of that" wonderful reviews this channel is well known for. I only hope Darrell never ever runs out of material, Amen.
Gibson jokes never get old!
Hope you don’t get a subpoena in the mail now
But Gibson itself does
Unlike Gibson players
Unlike their guitar designs, marketing ideas and their fanatics
@@harry_mair idk why you guys are hating on Gibson. Their guitars are classics. They do have their problems but that doesn’t mean their bad instruments...
So....giveaway coming up on the channel soon, slightly-used set of Riot tuners. 😂
lol yup
Third disadvantage, the back fo the headstock looks like hell.
I thought of this before since I'm a small custom guitar tuner maker called Perona. It wasn't new either, same concept had been marketed by Steinberg and another company I can't recall the brand name. Did a concept design and nah, decided it really didn't offer any advantage over a standard 18:1 worm gear design. But it's always inspiring to see new concepts being brought to market. 😀
If you turn your volume really low on this you’ll end up with a “Quiet Riot”
Dad joke dude 😂
@@RodNesser there you go again with the anti father rhetoric!
@@DMSProduktions yes I know 😔 I never used to be this way... It all changed when I found out my real daddy was a donor 😢
🥁
@@RodNesser OUCH! Sorry! BUT you have the RIGHT to know your origins!
Really like this idea as a firebird tuner .
Yeah that would look good!
Someone should also put them onto a Roswell Rhoads. They would really streamline the headstock more!
That's what I was thinking
Actually the only guitar that would be improved by these tuners. They are probably a lot lighter than the original banjo tuners.
I’d rather have the Steinberger gearless tuners on a Firebird. No Allen key required to change the strings and the knobs on the back don’t stick out as far on the back.
I love your reviews. Always so refreshing and BS free!
Thanks for reviewing this product. These are a similar concept to Steinberger tuners which I installed on my last build. Steinberger's are slightly lighter at 29.5 grams and much faster to change strings. These riot tuners look great from the front (very neat). They look industrial from the back. The Steinbergers are neat at the back but more industrial from the front ..... but .... thats what enables the faster string change.
It wouldn't be a Fender-based video without a Gibson jab 😂😂😂
I have had my first Gibson jab. I have to go for my second in a month or so
makes me fuzzy inside lol
Had these for months now. They've exhibited some of the best tuning stability I've ever experienced.
Yeah? So you dig em? How’s tight are the tolerances? Is there any backlash or play or are they fairly solid feeling?
How easy is it to accidentally bump the tuners out of tune? He said they move easily with no resistance. Isnt this bad if you want it to stay put?
I'm gonna need an update on those just to ensure that stay in tune, sir. I was hopping for a demo there, nice job putinng gibson on tune too.
This is a good idea work-in-progress marred by the Allen key and hopefully the future evolutions will make things alot faster and better
Needing to keep track of a hex key makes it a non-starter for me. Looks *sorta* cool from the front I guess, but really seems to be trying to solve a problem that doesn’t exist. I can think of lots of better stuff to spend $100 bucks on.
Yep, too much mucking around, although they seem to be top quality.
I'd say we're looking at about $200 AUD by the time we get them shipped down to Aussie which makes them reasonably expensive. Great video as usual, thanks.
Based on the thumbnail I assumed I wouldn’t dig these tuners, but after the vid, I really like em. I hope you do a long term review. Thanks for sharing these.
Very cool!
I appreciate the concept
at first look, they are almost like a "Space Age Banjo Tuner!"
They should sell the tuners with a bracket to hold the Allen key on the back of the headstock like the guitars with a Floyd Rose trem
I could see these being useful on the lower neck of a double-neck, where the buttons of standard tuners might be too close to the other headstock. I don't think I want to pay a hundred bucks for that convenience though.
It was a pleasure to "tune" in to this one man!
Always love your videos, Braun. 😁
Great video! 2 thoughts:
- An advantage of this design that I didn't hear you cover is that the break angle will basically be as low as possible (barring slotted designs), so on non-angled headstocks this should help out immensely with regards to break angles and such.
- I think Firebird enthusiasts would really enjoy these tuners! They would probably mean less neck-diving, for sure, as they are lighter, and also fit the general aesthetic, as the buttons themselves aren't visible from the front, just like on banjo tuners.
"...or Gibson without pissing off the entire guitar community at least once a year" :-D
I'd have missed it if I weren't listening close enough. Lol
i don't get it, what's up with Gibson?
@@leom7 I think he refers to the times when they would come up with strange ideas like the robotuners
Really like your more obscure gear reviews! 👍
You have such an infectious happy attitude!
I was a little nervous that you were doing this to a real American Strat. But yet this is so cool, even as a purist, I'm in!!!
Great show! Those look kinda neat/different on a strat.
I think I can also see a potential issue where the strings pass over the metal edge of the tuner front string insertion hole, as the string at this point Is having to bend 90 degrees where it enters the hole to the tuner; thus potentially creating a friction point/sticking point.
Are these gonna cause my strat to rest on it’s headstock in the case? Like they seem much taller than the Klusons
Definitely put your guitar in the case and measure the gap from the bottom of the case to the back of the tuners before buying these. If you have a case that is designed for angled headstocks it might work since it drops away from the higher string tuners.
Doubt it there the same depth as fender locking tuners I checked .
@@David-uq2uk thanks for clearing that up. I was worried they might be too long and pose a risk to a guitar falling backwards, hitting the floor tuner-first and the headstock absorbing the impact.
After making my comment I went over to the website and I'm placing an order right now. I'm going to try the black ones. I like the dark look
This type of solution opens up more options for headstock shapes 👍but admittedly I think they need to be shallower
I've had these on my Rooster "Firebasterd" build, for about 6 years. That's my headstock, on their website! They are perfect! Unbeatable quality.
It would be kinda cool if you taped yourself tuning it up filming your tuner to see just how precise they are.
Thats what I thought
I'm not sure if it would be easier or not turning a knob in stead of a tuner key.
@@abrahama2643 Harder that normal tuners. The reason why is because the hole the string goes through has a break angle of 90 degrees, while a normal tuner only has to deal with the break angle coming off from the string tree which has a less drastic break angle of around 10 to 20 degrees depending on string. So it creates more friction over the extra angle.
However I will say that the difference should be small and would likely need a side by side comparison to feel that difference. But just because its not "that" noticeable doesn't mean its a good design, this is still a bad design because cheaper ones work on the same principal.
No reason to reinvent the wheel on this one.
@@evilcowboy Good points. I agree.
One of the first things I noticed is the sharp angle going into the hole. It seems like if you do lots of fine tuning, the edge will chew away at the string.
@@abrahama2643 I would think just the opposite, the strings will wear a groove in the tuner.
I love the way they look there's nothing else out there that has that sort of appeal. I like how the wire is hidden on the back side. When you first trimmed off the excess I honestly believe that you had taken the wires back off until I locked a little closer.
I’ll never forget in the early 1980’s after I designed the Genesis G-6 Illusion model guitar for Schecter in Dallas. As part of our deal they gave me a Schecter Strat with their Schaller made locking bridge Floyd style whammy with a locking nut. It was a beautiful Mary Kay style Strat, only it had the latest floating locking whammy system. My very first gig where I used it was at Mother Blues, in Dallas, and that night guitar legend Bugs Henderson stopped by to sit in with my band. I was so excited and he got on stage and we started ripping it up. About halfway through the first tune my high E string had somehow slipped beyond the range of the fine tuner do I got out the Allen wrench to readjust it. I instantly dropped the Allen wrench onto a stage covered with old beer drenched and gaffer taped up shag carpet and it was dark in the club and onstage. I spent the next 20 minutes crawling around on this nasty carpet looking for the tiny black Allen wrench. I sold that guitar the next day. Any tuning gear that requires a separate tool to adjust is stupid AF.
Darrell, the only thing missing on this episode is your incredible playing , I know that it should not drastically change or alter the tone or Sustain , still love to hear you play.
I spat my drink out when you made the "incite a riot comment" 😂😂
great video, I appreciate how you are not trying to be funny like most people on YT.
Nice of you to play the bar and let us judge the tuning aspect
Cool, weird, funky....but I like the ones you took off better.
Agreed. Fender lockers seem more practical.
That “not sure that’s the best slogan considering our political climate” cracked me up man. Great vid
Not sure why he had to worry about that since he's Canadian
@@kenz2756 they're rioting all over Canada right now, far more justifiably than in the USA, as their government just extended and expanded the couf19 lockdown and relevant restrictions AGAIN. Ontario is on fire right now, from what my friends across the north border tell me.
@@willcresson8776 yeah you’re right, COVID lockdowns are WAY worse than police killing people.
@@th0tp0lice666 ok
Cancel Darrell Braun 🤣🤣🤣
Hey, I've got a set of those that I have yet to install. I purchased mine back before Riot tuners had that name. He was only using them on his travel guitar builds at that time. Surprised you didn't show tuning up process to demonstrate how the low-ratio tuners work. Either way, nice video, "Braun!"
I just watched this until the end, I'm not a guitar player but found this very interesting!
40:1 ratio brings a tear to my eye.
Also, right as I begin to wonder about the weight, Darrell busts out the scale. As expected! You're the man.
@Dave Stevens I upgraded to a strobe tuner for the first time last year. I want to make that wheel stop spinning so bad... I'd happily take 4 full turns per semitone, lol.
Sounds like the ratio for my Bolens leaf blower...
Pokiness is a word I didn't know I needed.
You'd probably discover a few other new words if you didn't have a good set of flush trim cutters with these. They do seem like they'd be more comfortable to tune with than the standard tuners though.
There is a entire world of videos devoted to pokies and pokiness. Or so I’ve been told
I heard about these a few months ago but was a bit skeptical. But your vid convinced me. Figured I’d give em a try and I’m now in love lol. I put em on my Gibson Firebird.
2021 and you still got a windows movie maker intro. respect!
Good luck with that little Allen wrench on stage. ;)
I would have loved to hear a demonstration of how they tune :(
He didn't even demonstrate them. Disappointed
@@cooper9287 He does at 9.20
@@Hadakles he just spins them you can't hear anything...
demonstrations are not allowed depending on where you are
Something else I noticed that you didn't mention is, unlike with standard tuning machines on a strat, the strings are perfectly straight from the nut to the tuners, meaning that there's no bend. With standard tuners, the strings will have a slight bend sideways at the nut. That lack of a bend is going to increase your tuning stability, especially if you use the vibrato bar, since it reduces friction.
I like these. May need to consider these for a couple of my guitars.
Enfin quelque chose de nouveau sur les guitares...
On a Gibson 3 + 3 headstock would probably make the tuning stability worse since you can't wind the D & G strings "up" the post to alleviate some of that break angle.
Lol.. I literally turned around and looked at my Kiesel 5 secs before u said it .. 🤣
That looks so clean 😮🤯
I am really digging these. I'd actually design a guitar around them to make them really fit. They could look really slick but I definitly think it depends on the guitar you pair them with
I have Steinberger tunes that work in a similar way. Interesting.
Very cool product, but being tethered to an allen wrench is a deal breaker for me. Nice video though Darrell!
Nice Review Darrell! I can see a real problem at a Show. You would definitely HAVE to bring a backup Guitar in case a String broke. Two, if you lost or misplaced the Allen Key you’d be sunk altogether! Thanks, please keep up the Good Work! Love your Channel and Content! Cheers from Salem, Ohio US.
How cool! I saw an interview with EVH where he said that one of the things that he did was ‘twist’ the bridge ends of the strings as he tightened them at the headstock so that they weren’t generating excess torsion. I suppose that tuners like this will prevent that!
How does the lower break angle against the nut affect things? Could you do away with the string tree?
That's what she said 🤣
It looks like it would def help compared to typical staggered tuners, but a good low friction string tree (or 2...) is still a good idea no matter *what* for the flat/6-in-line/Fender-style headstocks. Staggered tuners alone don’t help *enough* for a proper break angle over the nut to where there’s no maddening side effects
Just my opinion
A Fender Stratocaster is like a “Honda Civic” or a “Jeep Wrangler”!! That was a Great comparison, Loved it!! Lol Always enjoy your video’s!!!
Not quite sure what to make of the new style machine heads they look ok I suppose I would have to get some and give them a try enjoyed the video great
My classic 60's player Strat has holes in the tuning peg where you poke your string and tighten up, really nice finish and stability. Wouldn't fancy changing that design personally!!
That's innovative for sure! I'm pretty impressed by the weight, they looked way heavier than the standard locking tuners.
Maybe I'm wrong but it feels like it might me too easy to accidentally turn the barrel and put your guitar out of tube? It kinda looked like it needed way less than a regular tuning key to turn.
I can't figure out what they are trying to solve with this design. Seems like it just makes things more complicated.
@@thebarondisco7741 I think it’s more of another approach to the wheel. Not necessarily better or worse, but different. That’s my take
They are apparently 40:1 gear ratio, so more than twice as precise (takes *more* movement to get the same given pitch “distance”) than typical tuners. So it takes more turns to get it up to tune but with advantage of having control and precision, tho I’ve never tried these specific tuners
This style reminds me a lot of classical guitar tuners, easier to tune because its from the back, instead of side
These remind me of Steinberger tuners. I’ve seen a few people put them on Strats for a similar look. I personally don’t have much experience with the Steinberger tuners but I believe they work similarly as well.
Thanks Darrell, very good video, I won't be installing these any time soon:)
The holes remaining would freak me out.
And I like my rabbits with ears.
"Using mah full strength there..." How many guitar strings have you hand pulled out of locking tuners?
lmfao good point.
Never been this early but oh man a little Darrell Braun is just what I needed rn
That's odd, your woman told me you're always early
@@UmVtCg sike I've been alone for well over a year now
I made some out of parts from lowes for bout 15 bucks and a few extra additional holes pretty cool lil inexpensive experiment. Im still not that great at playing guitar but i really get into the mods and setups
Haven’t finished the vid yet how much are they! I like the way they look!🤩
@6:10 for weight comparison. thank you for difference check
Glad to see some company bringing back the Steinberger tuners now that Gibson has locked them down for purchase
I was thinking that too. Straight string pull is a definite plus compared to wrapping around a shaft.
The Steinberger tuners have been available again on Stewmac for years now.
Well, interesting idea for tuners! Maybe worth trying...
This is scary Darrell :D this is plain scary hahaha Very interesting tuners btw.
omg that gibson roast ahahaha
Reminds me of Steinberger Gearless Tuners, as often seen on Firebirds.
I have the Steinberger tuners on one of my builds. They are sadly, horrible. These are amazing. Not paid to say that! 😸
@@stevesorrell9835 Thanks for the warning about the Steinbergers!
I had a Les Paul Future with those Steinberger keys. Looked weird, but found them useful for precision tuning. They look way better on the firebird for sure
@@stevesorrell9835 I have them on a guitar and love them...very precise, no negatives that I've found. What problems do you have?
These look slick! 🔥
Lately I’ve doing a deep dive into the life of Eddie VanHalen and I have this crazy notion that had he not pass,that these two would of got along amazingly as they both seem to do all sorts of crazy things with guitars to see what sorta tones they can create.
"... or Gibson not pissing off..." You, sir, have won the internet!
I think with these, aesthetics are probably the last thing that'd come to mind. Seems like they'd go well with certain headless guitar designs, and I do appreciate the 40:1 ratio.
I like the fact that the strings sit much lower from the nut upwards.. Less strain, and possibly more tuning stability? They look damn cool too!
These are basically a take on the Steinberger gearless tuners, but the Steinbergers don't stick out as far at the back of the headstock. Prices are pretty much identical too. These are cleaner aesthetically as the Steinbergers have a locking system on the front side, although you tighten them by hand, so you don't need an allen key.