Fully Charged in Just 5 Minutes: New Battery Breaks Records
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- čas přidán 9. 07. 2024
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Electric vehicles are great, but let’s be honest, it’s more convenient to fill up a fuel tank with gasoline than sit around and wait until the battery is full. Well, this new battery from researchers at Cornell might solve the problem. They have found a way to produce a battery anode that allows the battery to fully charge within less than 5 minutes, and it does this reliably over at least 1000 cycles.
The paper is here: www.cell.com/joule/pdfExtende...
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#sciencenews #technews #technology #science #5minbattery #tech - Věda a technologie
It's "high cycle life" not "long life cycle" (that's something different).
What people also forget is that if you want to charge a 70kWh battery in, say, 5 minutes you need a charger to deliver 840kW. The current charging standard isn't defined for such high power and you'd need much larger insulation (making the charger cable unwieldy and also requiring MUCH larger cooling systems)
This is a critical point, that gets ignored. Not only is their no way that a public charging infastructure at that power level will ever be put in place. It would be insanely expensive to build and then sit idle 99% of the time. We can afford to make gasoline pumps which pump 20 gallons a minute and then sit idle because they are cheap and vehicles don't need to be modified to accept that amount of fluid, a plastic jug can also be filled from a such a system just as easily.
We need superconducting cables.
@@steveknight878Superconductors don't just suffer from temperature but also transfer rate, they stop being superconducting if too much power is going through them.
Room temperature superconductors would be extremely useful for a lot of things, but I doubt battery charging speed is going to be one of them.
Yup the battery would require water cooling as it is being charged. The thermal load and demand of 1Mw per charger is unrealistic. Also indium is heavy and very expensive, almost as costly as silver.😮
@@kennethferland5579 Not to mention that gas stations may have up to 10-20 cars filling up at the same time during busy periods.
"does anyone really need a terabyte of storage? really? for what?"
i got a mental image of her being a mom talking to her kids
"I see a need for maybe 4 or 5 computers worldwide ..." Thomas Watson Sr., (not what he actually said)
“640K ought to be enough for anybody.” - Bill Gates (again, not what he actually said)
Sabine! I can't believe you said that! My first hard drive was 5 megabytes (!), cost $3,500 plus expensive shipping from Califonia. It wasn't actually mine, my employer bought it (and looking back I can't believe they did!), and that $3,500 represented TWO MONTHS pay for most people in 1981. (I used it to build a "sneakernet" system that saved the business ~$200K a year or more, didn't understand why my boss was so nice to me but it was cool).
If you build it, WE WILL FILL IT!
𝅘𝅥𝅮 Does anybody really know the megs they use?
Does anybody really care? 𝅘𝅥𝅮
Anybody doing anything serious - molecular modeling, engineering, art, mapping...lying about particle theory, string theory dark matter - needs terabytes of storage and even a terabyte of fast RAM. Showing the world your avocado toast lunch....not so much.
@@uncleal Maybe the avocado toast is their art.
You will need that terabyte for all the 200MP photos taken.
Some technologies are so called "Enabler Technologies" which means they are often - on their own - not very interesting, however they enable other technologies and products to be actually useful. A very fast charging battery is one of those things.
I can imagine military would be interested. Or medicine. Or some field occupation where it really matters. Not everything has to do with our phones or cars.
To enable what? Electric mobility taking over, maybe? Not likely, and the earlier people realise that the better so a fast charging battery like that may actually be a bad thing.
@@martinstubs6203 If it doesn't work for that, other people might find a completely different use for it. Just an idea: with such batteries wireless headphones would become the standard, because you would no longer have to put such heavy batteries into it. If they only last for like 4 hours, but they completely recharge while you take a bathroom break, that wouldn't be an issue.
To me charge time is more important than having twice the battery. I hardly ever charge outside of my house (which is automatic overnight) so this would only affect the few times I make large trips. In those cases I'd rather charge faster than make 1 stops vs 2.
💯
it's exactly because it's overnight, that charge time doesn't really matter all that much. I mean, it's already pretty good, and taking the 10-15 minutes to fast charge to 80% to have a coffee and stretch only makes you a safer driver on a long trip. I think in time, both charge time and energy density will improve, along with durability and self discharge, and that'll certainly help to convince more people it's the next logical step, but I don't know that making an electric car that charges as fast as filling a fuel tank is necessarily a good thing.
@@longbow192people are used to „charge“ their car at a gas station so they simply convert these stops to EVs where you can charge at home over night.
For people without a garage thinks look different, they would constantly need these Chargers which will also damage the batteries in the long run. For these people the charging time is important especially as an EV has roughly half the range of a conventional car not even talking about EVs in the winter.
EVs are the future but there are still a lot of problems to overcome.
None electric vehicle owners cannot understand the concept of concurrent activity. You can tell even friends and family it takes no time to charge because you are doing other stuff that you would of been doing anyway. They nod and pretend to understand but next conversation its obvious that still think charging is a stand alone activity. Or people make up one in a million scenario. Fine if you need to tow a boat a thousand miles per day then maybe a ev is for you!
@@svenweihusen57 actually, with newer generations of batteries, charging power isn't as damaging as keeping the batteries either at a very high or very low charge for long periods of time. Thermal management has gotten a lot better, and that helps reduce quick charge degradation a lot. 99% of the people who have a garage and charge at home will do so very slowly, overnight, and depending on how much they drive, twice, maybe 3 times a month. Slow charging doesn't degrade the battery regardless of whether it has thermal management or not. It requires a bit more planning on roadtrips, but first of all, most EVs have a feature that does that for you automatically, , and if it doesn't, there's lots of free apps that show you all the stations, with power and availability, and second, let's be realistic: one only really goes on one, maybe 2 roadtrips in a year, so a bit of extra planning is not exactly an everyday issue. I suppose a shorter charge time makes more sense for someone who rents, or doesn't have a garage. Personally, I think in the near future there will be a breakthrough with a news completely different battery technology, that will make batteries much more energy dense, and will almost certainly allow them to charge faster. And I think electric cars will either have the range of a diesel passenger car, or it'll be able to store the same amount of energy, which almost triples the range, so drag losses aren't as noticeable.
Flaunting your new 📱 when your old ☎️ is right there. Savage.
Shopping for a new phone on your current phone is like making your current phone dig its own grave.
@@madcow3417I'm diging right now and thinking if I should save this phone second time. Battery is starting to look like pillow.
how is that savage?
Not as bad as installing a GPT on that phone to shop for new phones with better GPTs to shop for phones.
@@alieninmybeverageHow meta!😊
I've seen articles about stuff like this twice a year, for the last several years. I'll believe when I've got it in my hand.
Graphene batteries were going to be amazing back in 2006.
It is not an easy thing to do. We are slowly getting closer and with a million people working on it its when not if.
Problem is that it is easier to make happen in the lab than production.
@@danharold3087 oh yeah, I definitely appreciate the difficulties, it's just always stated as "right around the corner" or something, then I'll forget until I see the next article in 6 months. More of a reporting issue really
Yup and the new better battery never makes it to production. Lithium ion pouch cells have been on the market for 30 years and only had slight improvement over that time, only thing that has changed is the prices came down but since the EV push by governments the price of lithium ion pouch batteries has doubled or more for basic consumers in the last 5 years
ive had to stop watching certain channels because of their non stop "this changes everything" videos on batt tech
2:22 This is how we know Sabine doesn't sail the high seas
4:38 And proof that Sabine is smart enough to plug her phone in before its under 10% charge and she is about to leave the house.
1TB is like 20 high quality seasons
Or drive more than a few blocks in cold weather. Or live in rural area...
I think she means specifically on your phone.
or 8K@30fps video recording.
I drive from Los Angeles CA to Austin TX a few times per year with a Tesla Model Y. Charging hasn’t been a hindrance at all. I think it’s about 10 charging stops along the way, and roughly 3hrs between each.
Each stop is time enough to go use the washroom, get a snack and refill some water or juice, and get back on the road. Doesn’t seem anymore time than a gas car when I would do the same trips.
The haters do not want to hear that it is mostly a solved problem.
"Conservatives" in gas cars will NEVER go for that. They want 4 stops at 5 minutes each.
@@Steve-wz5pz They must all not be married or have kids.
Human stamina is depleted faster than the batteries of their car and often it takes much longer to replenish it. As long as eight hours some times. Still, people will complain they can't wear diapers, take some stimulant and drive for hours and hours without stop.
I used to drive to Florida almost every year, Toronto to Orlando down I-75.. My ex would complain because I HAD to stop every two hours to get a coffee, stretch my legs and *MOST IMPORTANT* use the bathroom. We would leave on Friday afternoon from Toronto and arrive in Orlando at the condo mid-morning Sunday. Driving back would leave Saturday morning and arrive home late Sunday night.
Friends who made the same drive would do it as a "one-shot", no hotel expenses, minimal stops (fuel and food only) and about a 22-hour drive if they didn't run afoul of State Police (I never went that fast).
I always went for two-weeks at a time; the one-shot people would go for a week. It's all a matter of choice, and not every choice is for every person. One size does NOT fit all.
I had to chuckle at the "Does anyone really need a terabyte of storage? really? for what?" I worked for a major computer company from 1975 through 2004 amid tremendous expansion of computing capabilities. At every announcement of major expansion of memory or storage, I heard the same comments: "Why would we need THAT?"" There should be a corollary to Moore's Law that demand will keep pace with or outpace even exponential technological growth. Thanks for the wonderful videos, Sabine!
yea. then demand for commercial storage took off, now in some large businesses there are petabytes of data (and that was from about a decade or more ago)
@triplec8375 You see the same thing with energy generation too. "If we can master fusion it will meet the world's energy needs." As if we won't find a way to utilize every bit of it and more.
The storage needed on my PC (Mac, actually) keeps growing. But on the phone? I have to parrot Sabine: for what?
@@LiftPizzas Sadly, I think you're right. But on the optimistic side, both fission and fusion can help reduce burning gas and oil which we absolutely need to do.
@@harmless6813 Well, I didn't say anyone needed it, only that I've seen similar questions raised many time across the decades. My grandfather once remarked about people resisting automobiles. Why would you need an automobile when a horse can get you to town AND plow the fields. Like you probably do, I keep all my photos, videos, essential files, research notes, etc. on my PC. But I do know people who keep what seems to be their entire lives on their phones. Is it necessary? Not really, but to some it's a lifestyle and they at least believe they need it.
As a BEV owner who charges at home >95% of the time not having to got to a gas station and hand over $100's per month is the main draw, when I do go on a road trip I find stopping ever 3 or 4 hours for 20 minutes taking car of natures call and stretching my legs while charging improves road trips. Yes if I had to get somewhere faster filling with gas would save some time but if I am in that kind of hurry I would take a plane and save hours not minutes.
And let's not forget the multiple oil changes a year that take at least an hour and are required for many cars to maintain the warranty. My Tesla Model Y has no maintenance requirements and the only thing I have dome is add washer fluid after 2 years.
The hate towards BEV is not based on inconvenience, but ideology.
Well put. My Bolt charges no faster than 50 kW, and I've never had a problem on road trips though I'll stop for twice as long as you. I've never taken a trip longer than 250 miles, and I also charge at home overnight 95+% of the time, but for someone with my needs, an EV beats an ICEV in most respects.
@@pawel7196
... The fact it is a superior technology in every way?
They are faster, they're quiet (Who wouldn't love a NYC that is void of all the traffic noise?), their ranges are on par if not now starting to exceed your typical ICE, they require less maintenance, they're far better for the environment (and yes, even if you're charging it with Coal/Natural Gas that powerplant is FAR more efficient than your 20 year old car that hasn't seen a proper technician since it rolled out of the factory), and ideally they're going to be a lot more reliable.
The only issue with EVs is our battery tech could be better. Ultimately though, it'll get better, and better, and better. And perhaps someday we'll move onto something other than batteries altogether. Maybe embedded chargers on our Highways or other tech.
"The grid is not reliable"
This is an issue to take up with your representatives. Not Electric Vehicles. I live in America, and the most powerful and richest nation in the entire history of the human race should have enough money to build a functioning grid.
If you're mad about the climate change concern. Then, get with the times. This shit is real and we are now starting to see the beginning of this hell we're bringing onto ourselves.
What ideology is there?
@@Kloppin4H0rses traffic noise mainly comes from honking (specially in cities), tires and from large diesel engines. EVs won't do much in this regard, I'm afraid.
"[M]ultiple oil changes a year that...are required for many cars to maintain the warranty."
That's the funniest line I've read since the Eighties. 🤣
2:26 you could store a full gpt on it
Graphics, videos. It adds up quick.
Autobots, roll out!
But why do ppl do that when you can watch them free these days streaming lol never made sense tons of websites @@vidalott
Never understood ppl downloading videos @@vidalott
GPT is probably about 50 GB. Of course just the parameters, not the learning examples, but you are not going to train such a model on your smartphone...
4:36 There can be cases when someone needs to go somewhere, but their phone has a low charge. They can prevent this by charging it in advance, but some can forget to
Depends on the usage requirement. Where supercharging networks are prolific, fast charging makes sense. Where charging stations are widely dispersed, greater energy storage density makes more sense.
Over time we will get dense charging networks. I'm still not sure the difference will be worth it. I guess ultimately it will depend on the price for the different batteries.
For me as a resident of a detached house, this is not a problem, I plug my electric car into the socket overnight, but I also never have to drive more than 100 km a day. It's more difficult in the city.
The best thing would be if you could swap the batteries at the filling station. You drive to the exchange point, a robot arm replaces the battery, and off you go.
Right, and there are concepts for this, but who implements it?
@@Thomas-gk42 Necessity will be the determining factor. Just like when the car was invented and there were no adequate roads, let alone filling stations.
But perhaps the new batteries will be on the market sooner?
Take care be safe, some cars catch fire over night charging, and families are unable to get out
@@Thomas-gk42tom Scott has a video about a company already doing it
Current ev have eoinfh range imho. On a long trip, taking a 20min break, stretching your legs and hacking a coffee after 400km does not seem like a big deal to me.
Our need for storage expands with the amount of storage available. No matter how much it is you will find that it's not enough.
I disagree. Many things just stream to your phone, storage is in the cloud, don't need it as much as you think.
It's like having a shed. The bigger you make a shed, the more tools you buy and the more projects you make that need to be stored in the shed, making it eternally full.
@@nbboxhead3866 Yes, a very good analogy. 😄
It's like a woman's handbag. The bigger it is, the more shit we find to put in them 😅
Goodness me. This video was so long I had time to recharge my battery, with time to spare.
When driving from NYC, NY to ATL, GA _(13.3 hours / 865 miles)_ you may want to charge your car in *five* minutes instead of an *hour* that adds to your trip at least two times.
_Basically, when travelling by car for extended periods._
IMO this is more of a problem of charging infrastructure than car/battery design. Teslas using their network don't take an extra hour. 20-30 minutes is more than enough to get you to the next charger after 2-3 hours of driving (I don't like driving more than that straight through).
Switch out shitty charging infrastructure that doesn't put out the advertised rates and you'll cut down on charge time dramatically. It's like complaining about my car design because the gas station throttled the pump to only flow at a third the normal speed. You know?
It's inherent to EV technology. They require -X- amount of time to be charged where -X- is based on the charging station's max output and the vehicle's max input (unless you an extreme fireworks show). And consider this, four gas pumps can service eight vehicles every 5 minutes, but it takes eight charging stations to service the same eight EVs in four to six times the time by your numbers.
A charging station needs much MUCH more infrastructure - on the order of 32 charging stations to match based on your best case 20min charge time. That's just to match a *_small gas station._* And not even getting into the more beefy electrical power infrastructure that will require.
@@Cyrribrae the chargers are not only limit by their own technology, but also by the transmission lines connected to them. If you want a transmission line that can handle let's say 200-500kw to that charger for 30 minutes, then unless you take that power away from nearby homes - you need to upgrade all transmission lines, transformers, and switches from the charger to the electrical power plant. In the end, you may even need to upgrade the power plant itself to handle increased demand.
50kw and above is not a trivial amount that you can just plug in anywhere.
Currently at least in my country chargers are required to have smart charging capability, which allows the energy operators to limit their power when there is a risk of overloading the transmission lines or the power plant.
@@Penjulum I agree, all this green push comes down to an avalanche of costs. We are talking about costs that can get richest countries to their knees. Average countries cannot even dream about paying for this.
Just yesterday European Commission FINALLY counted what I counted years ago - we would need double the amount of power plants (and double the electrical grid and make it in a new way that also doubles the cost again) in order to be even able to charge EVs, if they are to replace normal cars. Just so you know, the cost of normal old style electrical grid can be equal to the cost of power plant that produces energy for it.
I wouldn't be surprised if the cost of electricity would jump by 4-8 times in countries pushing for green, either that or increase in taxes (again). In Germany which has one of highest renewable energy percentages, the cost is double that of neighboring countries, but EVs are only barely starting to take the streets there. There are already problems with power delivery in Germany.
@@SylwesterKogowski First: I'd like a source on this "double the power plants in Europe" claim, because I don't see anything like that at all.
Eh. Kinda. You're talking about expanding and upgrading charging infrastructure like it's a bad thing. Electricity demand is expanding and resilience needs are increasing. The work of increasing (clean) power generation and strengthening power transmission must happen REGARDLESS, even if you did want to live in a fossil-fueled soaked world. We're not talking about an overnight overhaul of the grid, just like EVs aren't going to replace everyone's cars tomorrow. We don't need nearly as much grid power as you think.
Most large charger stations make use of large on-site battery installations. They trickle charge the battery from the grid (along with local renewables like solar panels on the charging stations) at night when nobody is charging their cars nor using much power at home. Then, they use the battery during peak energy usage - that's convenient for the grid AND cost-effective.
As you guys point out, a charger's max daily uses is lower than a fuel pump's (though most fuel pumps are majority idle too). Tesla reported last year that an average Supercharger station gets about 45 cars per day. Let's plan for daily 50 cars getting an average 80kwh per charging session (already a sizeable EV battery, especially since you don't usually wait for 0% and don't charge fully to 100%). So, that's a daily total charging usage of 4 megawatts or 170 kw per hour. Even if you charge only during 12 off-hours, that's plenty doable in most situations with current infrastructure. Combine that with local renewables, smart charging tech, energy usage policies, and incremental energy infrastructure improvements... it's definitely possible.
Fast charging is great for travel -- not every bus or train has electrical service, and if one only has 15 minutes between 6 hour bus connections, a fast charge is a life-saver.
You've confused me. Which vehicle needs to be quickly recharged between bus connections? You left your car at home to take the bus, so it's not your car that needs quick charging. At the connection point, you're done riding the first bus, so you don't have to worry about its recharging time. And the second bus can be recharged before you arrive at the connection point, so it too doesn't require quick recharging. Finally, if the first bus doesn't have the range to reach the connection point without a recharge, its (long) recharging time should be factored into its Estimated Time of Arrival At the Connection Point before you finalize your travel plan.
@@brothermine2292 Oh, I am thinking about phones and laptops and cameras. Of course, if there aren’t many vehicle chargers in some area, faster is still useful because no one wants to hang around an unfamiliar area for two hours after dark.
@@brothermine2292He’s talking about phone charging.
@@brothermine2292 I am pretty sure ericpmoss is talking about charging phones and/or labtops, not vehicles.
@@brothermine2292 you need it for the e-bike you're taking from one end of the bus terminal to the other.
So, a Tesla use 250kW to charge in about 20 minutes.
So if you want to charge the same battery in 5 minutes, you need a 1MW connection. That's for sure the common connection of every home.
Even with a 5 minute battery there is no reason to fast charge at home. Charge while you sleep. Let the charger charge when electricity is the lowest cost.
@@danharold3087 that's the biggest problem. I would buy an electric car, but I don't have any possibility to charge at home. I could only use the city grid chargers. Far to inconvenient
@@spedi6721more and more Level 2 chargers will be popping up at restaurants, malls, grocery stores etc. That way people without home charging can "graze" - plug in for 20min here, an hour there while you're just going about your lkfe, and that will be enough to meet most of your needs.
Right, since most people only spend 5 min per day at home.
@@truhartwood3170 yea, I mentioned that, but my main point is that there could be be an extra ordinary number of chargers with this power output. The power grid is not capable of delivering that power in such a short time. These fast switching loads are unpredictable.
Theoretical: 100 cars (that is not all that much!) trying to load simultaneous. So the grid has to supply 100MW for about 5 minutes. There is no type of power plant that can deliver those gradients of power. Also I would like to see the connection cable for the car. Power plants need some time to ramp up/down.
I have a Tesla - and recently bought a second for my wife. The problem with 15 to 20 minute charge times - and roughly 2 to 3 hours between charges at freeway speeds isn't that it's an actual problem. After driving that long ALL mainstream driving organizations recommend that you take a break. NONE of this is a REAL problem - but it's a VERY, VERY BIG perceived problem - and results in bad press and a lot of people getting very upset about maybe selling new gasoline cars being made illegal in 2030 to 2035. However, it ISN'T a problem in reality. I've done 3,000 mile road trips in my Tesla and the rhythm of taking 15 minutes out ever 2 to 3 hours is just fine. The problem isn't physics or engineering - it's psychology.
I NEED 1TB storage for my meme library.
It doesn’t fit in any of the smaller storage sizes.
and where do you store your cute cat videos?
Imagine one terabyte of mental garbage...
@@WordsInVain I don't have to. Just open a random commercial video streaming service.
@@WordsInVain
ftw no memes
You have memes stored on the internet already 😂
The problem isnt when you have time to charge it up - its how are you going to charge it up. To flip, you charge your phone at home, but if you live in a city - how are you going to charge your car over night? You don't always have a way to do this in larger and larger cities or places that you rent as an option. For those people, charge times matter more than how much storage you have for example. Its something that has to be balance for sure. Charge times and how power dens they really are. There is also the issue of getting enough charge to perform basic functions too - such as heating or cooling your device. As we saw in some cities that hit a -30 out of no where, having the ability to even function like normal is a big problem too.
oddly enough in northern Europe, where its regularly colder than any where in the US, other than Alaska thy dont seem to have the problem that Chicago had, so maybe this is a US problem? and why do we have that problem and others dont? even in Cities, that are huge, there are apartments that have garages, and almost all of them have 110 volt plus (slow i know but it does work), and since the 1990s I have lived in apartments ... with garages, originally cause it keeps the vehicles from being damaged by ...hail. now it keeps them safe from others wanting to break into them (or makes it harder...but nothing is perfect and not even being in a extremely rural area will protect your vehicle) now its easy to charge there.
@@user-bp2io3bi5l Mainly yes, problem was just the drop was out of nowhere. Thus a lot of people that normally wouldnt have this issue had this issue - and the ones that normally would go charge their cars at home had to get a top off from all the needed heat that day(s). So it was double the issue for a week or so. More or less it was a US issue, but doesnt change the fact that to make it work, we would still need a method to quickly charge and allow the next person. Aka, while I agree a higher power dens is needed - charge times are still just as important.
In the future when most cars are EVs everyone will be wanting and expecting to be able to plug in wherever they are parking overnight or for a long time. So it will become normal for all long stay parking spaces to have a charger. That can be a parking garage or lot next to an apartment building or workplace, or street parking. Currently people are having to install their own charger which mostly only people who own a home with off street parking can. But that's only because EVs are still fairly new. In the future it will be expected that all building owners with parking spaces will install chargers. How fast we get there depends on how hard governments are prepared to push them to do it, either with grants or requirements or both. For on street parking there are several ways being used. 1 is street lights have having chargers fitted, using the existing supply. Another is a system where the charger goes underground in the street and there is a special socket in the ground that you plug into, so when you are not using it there is nothing in the way.
When most cars are EVs there will be enough demand for chargers that it will economical for them to be mass installed. The problem is that until chargers have been mass installed a lot of people won't want to get an EV. It's a chicken and egg problem, which is why government action is needed to get things moving faster.
When you listen to 40+ hours of audiobooks a week while you work, that extra high capacity is helpful. Especially if you have a handful of AAA games on your phone as well.
Also, as a trucker in the USA, I can tell you that the current electric semi's are NOT adequate replacements for the diesel semis. They lack the range for 10 hours of driving on the Interstate highways, and with needing roughly 8 hours to charge they CAN'T be used by teams. Teams alternate who drives to keep the truck moving for 20-22 hours a day. That means they currently need roughly 16 total hours of charge time to do less than 20 hours of driving, on loads that have to be shipped as quickly as possible. Those numbers don't work. IF this new battery type could let an electric semi charge up in 30 minutes or less, then so long as it can achieve a 500 mile range it would make it a practical replacement for a diesel semi. That's where this would be a meaningful discovery.
Charging time does relate to range anxiety. If you've got to charge at a charging station at all, it makes a big difference whether each full charge takes 5 minutes or 30 minutes if you are in a line with 5 people in front of you.
But it will be decades before most cars could charge at those speeds. One expensive super-charger, with a queue of people taking 30+ minutes to charge will really annoy the fancy-car drivers. A row of 'normally rapid' chargers would still be far better use of limited supply capacity.
@@robinleicester Might not be all that long, IF electric cars take off. Of course, that's still a big IF.
Must be nice to never fail to remember to put your phone on the charger and/or never being in a hurry just when your battery would start to crap out before you got home again...
The major issue , should this ever come to fruition, is that the 145KWh is now delivered is 5 minutes - so if that 145KWh is normally dissipated (at steady rate) over a 2 Hour journey, then to replenish it in 5 minutes will need 12*145KWh equivalent input 1.74MWh delivery to the filling station where now you are not waiting for the 1 hour charge but for the queue of people waiting to use the outlet. Then the cables will need to be hightly specialised with the energy capacity and isolation to handle that amount of power safely.
And they will, just as current chargers transfer that huge output already.
These "problems" are just stepping stones.
People will find a way, whether they simply beef up connections or use multiple streams
Ultra rapid chargers often work by taking the power from an onsite battery which can be charged up more slowly, averaging out the current draw, instead of needing a very high power grid connection that is only used part of the time.
About information storage and a 1TB smartphone (2:55). I heave learned the hard way that storing pictures, movies and games is like this: either you have space for around 10-20 of them and just keep it organized and store only those, you need right now and on daily bases or you have storage for 250 or more and then you never have enough space and it will run out sooner or later.
I started following new battery technology over ten years ago when I got into RC aircraft. In that time there have been uncountable announcements of new battery tech that will revolutionize the world. I am still flying my RC aircraft on the same batteries, with the same flight times and charge times. New battery tech announcements are nearly as useful as NFTs.
People with the charge angst.. they always worry about the one time in the year they drive into holidays, every other day it will be fine if slow charging it at home over night (or during working hours at the job.. where the main issue is that company parking slots should get wallboxes, or parking houses, but with affordable charging prices). And for the one time in the year you want to drive across whole europe.. just put the car onto a train.
There exist other vehicles than private cars; battery-electric buses and trains for example. Faster charging reduces idle times and thus increases efficiency. In a perfect world it would be so fast that a bus could recharge enough for the next tour while sitting at a line's terminus for a couple of minutes, which would allow to use much smaller, lighter, and cheaper batteries compared to a bus that is recharged between shifts.
I would want that in an environment with an unreliable power grid. If you never know how long the electricity is even going to be there, sure this helps.
But otherwise, it doesn’t seem to add much convenience.
I can't charge at home. That and the price are the reasons i didn't get one. Now my current car is only ~6 years old, so it will take a while until i get a new one.
More like twice a month in North America.
So your company car park should have a charger . Just curious what % of your company gets a car park allocated to them . And once again the poor pay for the rich .
I think there are situations where charging in 5 minutes by doubling the size of the battery makes sense. Maybe a bus for public transport within the city. The battery could be charged at final stations. The distance between one end and the other of a bus line is not that big, hence the battery would not need to be gigantic.
I don't know. Especially for buses it seems it would be easy to accommodate longer loading times. At worst, just buy a few more vehicles. Might be cheaper than the required electricity infrastructure for extra-fast charging.
@@harmless6813 That really depends on individual cases. And at this point it would be even smarter in a lot of cases to just use Diesel. I would be happy to see this to change.
@@frankhabermann9083It might be 'smarter' for an individual, it is not for humanity. A typical "tragedy of the commons" case.
@@harmless6813 Not in all cases. For instance, diesel can easily be the better option when your electricity comes from very dirty coal power plants.
@@frankhabermann9083Even in that case a BEV produces less CO2. It's just that much more efficient.
As to your last question "who cares how fast it charges" -- _if_ there were plenty of charging stations, I'd be delighted to get another 100 miles of range in 5 minutes vs 15 minutes. Given that I'm held back from EVs because of range (and energy-density) anxiety, this would make a difference in how I look at it.
I have a Tesla Model 3, and so far I haven't found it to be annoying to have to stop for say 25 minutes every 3 hours on long trips to charge. The driving break is good to have. And it's certainly not a problem charging it at home, either overnight or during the day (I'm retired). Yes, it would be nice to have more range and faster charging, but really, it's totally okay as it is.
The biggest issue is cobalt. We need to get off it in all of our batteries.
Hopefully in just a few years sulfur batteries will be on the market. Most all of the issues with sulfur batteries are being cracked.
You could use nickel, chromium, copper,manganese and several other metals to replace it with. All it needs is to hold on to the lithium ions weakly and form a stable oxide upon charging. If you change the ion to sodium or potassium then you could use iron oxide making it as cheap as it gets.❤
Cobalt is an emotional issue. People fear change or have some emotional bonds to their gas cars, therefore they use cobalt mining as strawman argument, while completly ignoring it is also used for hardening steel in ICE engines and in catalysators for the desulphurisation of fuel, not to speak about all the consumer gadgets. Then you also learn that cobalt is a byproduct of copper mines, there are no pure cobalt mines. Where are the same idiots now canceling everything that contains copper?
If you have a place to charge overnight regularly and a daily commute that is well under your max range, you basically never need to stop somewhere for a charge. Same can’t be said of gas where every ~300-400 miles you need to refuel regardless.
I have a big ol' truck. Don't use it as a truck much, but its the vehicle I have, not the one I want to buy.
For me, once a week, its 17 gallons of gas at the local filling station. Regular as rain. The time cost is about 7 minutes per week, from in-the-cab to back-in-the-cab. Mighty convenient, that. The cost of the fuel sucks, but it has for quite awhile longer than EV cars have been around.
The only real reason I don't cut-and-run with electric is 'cuz the monthly cost of the vehicle 'mortgage' basically outweighs the refueling cost savings. By quite a bit. A new mid-size, mid-feature Tesla is well over $700 a month. ⅔ that if we lease instead of buying. The cost buys a LOT of gasoline, even here in ridiculously over-taxed Bay Area, California.
So, I drive the truck, and don't worry overly about the 7 minute once-a-week gas station stops. And likewise, I don't worry about them on the road, every 350 miles or so. There are gas stations EVERYwhere. Almost never more imposing than a 7-minute fill up.
My Skoda Enyaq can go 350 miles on a charge on a good day so pretty much on par with ICE cars.
I don't know what the problem is! Just put a windmill on top of the EV so it can charge the battery as it is driven around. Simples!
@@robertlynch7520but that's because you already own your truck, not because it makes sense to buy a new one over an electric.
The tesla car payments of $700/mo come out to $8400 a year. Meanwhile, if gas in Fremont (for example) is minimum $4, then your annual gas savings (4*17*52) are at least $3500. That's a pretty decent savings percentage, I think. Even better if you get a cheaper vehicle like a Bolt with the tax credit, which gets you close to breaking even just on fuel savings for your already owned truck - with a NEW car.
False equivalency, not many people have a gas station at their homes. Refueling only takes a couple of minutes. Most people do not have the time to sit around in a parking lot for hours. EVs will never become mainstream until something like this makes them as convenient.
for electro mobility this would be awesome , e bikes in particular would benefit of a massive range extension ..current systems need at least 2.5 hours up 8 hours to charge.
The issue with current e-bike batteries is the race-to-the-bottom in terms of quality and cost. All main-stream lithium chemistries can already be charged at 1C, which equates to 1 hour 0-100.
The bigger problem for e-bike batteries is safety and fire danger. Due to how cheaply they are made, fire danger has become a huge problem. That will hopefully be rectified as LFP chemistries get closer to NMC chemistries in terms of energy density. But at the moment most e-bike batteries using NMC or (even worse) NCA for the power density and vendors don't seem to care that buildings are burning down as a consequence.
You can top up at a lamppost. That's the place I search for my lost keys on a dark night. Those of us who live in towns don't realise how pitch black it can get in the countryside.
It's great if they could transfer this to another metal. But if it needs indium it's useless.
Littlefinger: 'Knowledge is power'.
Cersei: 'Power is power'
Super presentation. Many times, these wonder batteries are discussed. Never to be heard of again.
Absolutely. A 5 minute charging battery is just what the world needs.
About 90% of the time EVs are charged while they are parked at home or a workplace. There is no need for rapid charging in these circumstances. Battery cost and vehicle range are the two key parameters limiting EV adoption.
market data shows the biggest decision criteria are still range and charging speed. A car buying decision isnt based on facts, but on emotions. It may be sad, but if you want a larger adaptation you need to paly the game and bring out innovations for a good feeling.
I want a battery that has a much longer life span before it needs replacement.
How many miles do you anticipate driving between now and when you cash in?
I definitely wish my phone battery had the lifespan of a car battery (current EV batteries on new vehicles are expected to last 20 - 35 years).
All it takes is a little amount of care. Honestly, 10 years old + Teslas that have been taken care of don't suffer as much, it's not a rocket science to care for a car
Well, we already have batteries with long life spans capable of outlasting the vehicle, they are called LFP batteries (LiFePO4). In fact, the life-span is long enough now that the BMS electronics are more likely to fail before the cells do.
@@danharold3087 one million. That is the minimum.
out of idle curiosity, what number do you think is reasonable?
"Does anyone even need a terabyte of storage?" Yes. "Do you?" Yes! "For what?" Memes, Sabine, obviously.
Speed, price, quality-pick two.
When it comes to batteries, and without much thought, it I would guess, you can have any 3 of 4 characteristics.
1. long life
2. high rate discharge
3. low cost.
4. low weight
There was a time when tv transmissions changed from 405 to 625 lines in the old black & white days. Look at tv's now. There again mobile phones were carried about in a brief case in the late 1980's. It's not just a phone now but also a stills camera, video camera, payment device, diary, alarm clock, map............. Technology will steamroller all predictions.
As someone who actually owns an EV, the concerns about range and charging speeds are overblown.
Likely perpetuated by people who DON"T own one.
You should be stopping for a break every few hours anyway.
And 20 mins is perfect for a refresh and most chargers are positioned in places near cafes, shops and things to see.
The only real issue comes from larger distances between charging stations where certain locations just aren't accessible. Like in outback Australia.
I've never had a problem doing coastal road trips.
Part of the reason we non-owners prepare concerns over range and charging speed is that these are two of the reasons many of us haven't made the change. Specifically, the answer to the following question: of I run out of gas, I can grab my gas can and walk down the road; what happens if my battery dies?
Until more tow vehicles can serve as mobile superchargers, the answer is probably to get dragged shamefully to the nearest supercharger just to wait a long time and try again.
You're not wrong, but yeah we have concerns.
@@sabinrawr That’s a 100% valid concern.
Thankfully it’s somewhat mitigated by good route planning, however you can’t protect against the chargers at that location being out of service either due to an outage or vandalism.
We have crowd sourced apps that track the state of the charging facilities, what’s available near them, which ones are broken, etc.
It’s fairly robust now in most areas.
Speaking of towing, if you do need one, it has to be a flat bed as dragging it along can damage the motors!
Seems worth the risk to me! I won’t go back, but I’ll never buy another Tesla either (for many reasons).
I keep saying that destination charging is the needful paradigm shift that makes super fast charging moot for all but a small fraction of scenarios. The typical car is idle for 90+% of the time while you are at home, work or other venues you want to hang out at anyway. Get even just L1 charging available in virtually all of those locations, and the need for fast charging becomes a niche market for long drives and other rare or extreme cases.
I think that many people fail to see is that restricting the distance you can travel restricts your freedom to travel. And there are many of us with long commutes who can make it from point A to Point B and back on a single charge, but not much more. This causes the technology to feel inferior to ICE with quick filling, as it limits our options, making our world and our lives smaller.
I drive a Toyota Prius C, which is a tiny gas/electric hybrid. I love it. I regularly drive long distances in remote areas of northern Canada where winter temperatures can be as low as -40 C. For me, an all electric vehicle is completely impractical. A friend of mine has an EV in Calgary. Its range is reduced to less than 50% during cold weather. It is great for short commutes.
Sabine please don’t go there! We’ve had enough of all “game changing” new batteries already from other channels. Charging time isn’t really an issue. Availability of chargers are. Both fast chargers and destination chargers. (slower but cheaper)
No matter what happens with the different battery chemistries, we will be the winners in the end.
Who are we? Real question because I'm not too sure.
It’s amazing we ever made the move to the horseless carriage. Where are all the gas stations?
They utilized the sophisticated technologies called a container and gravity feeding mechanism.
Yep. We had the EXACT same type of mentality to get past back then too. There were political cartoons in news papers mocking those who would buy something so foolish. One I had read in an old archive had 2 fellows talking, and one says to the other "Are you enjoying riding around in your new horseless carriage?" The other fellow replied "Riding around in it?!? Heck, I'm still learning how to repair it!" Another from the same era had a couple riding in a horse and buggy plodding past a fellow who obviously ran out of gas. He was holding a small petrol container, looking all embarrassed as the man says "Get a horse!!" and the lady is laughing. It is now more politically motivated than it ever was back then. Most Conservatives (I happen to be one) can't open their minds wide enough these days to entertain the possibility that, over time, the bugs will be solved and EVs could be a very viable option. Their minds immediately go into anti-EV rhetoric mode. I have an EV and I love it. I didn't buy it because I was some sort of Greenie, but because I logically understand that 98% or (greater) of my driving is within city limits. My home budget decreased by $4800 annually. I have solar on the house and not only am I not buying gasoline now, I am not even having to buy extra electricity from the Utility company. It is currently not a practical choice for many, but that doesn't mean they need to be naysayers just because that is the popular thing to do. Do you remember back in the 1970s how we would hear about "some guy inventing a carburetor that gives a car 100 mpg?" but "the oil companies bought up the patent and suppressed it!" People love sensationalism... especially when it comes to hating something.
Liquid fuel was already a common commodity, people had been using Kerosine for lamps for decades already, so the inclusion of gasoline into that system was not very difficult. Also the airplane was being popularized at the same time and these likewise demanded gasoline, and it's ability to do something that was practically a miracle to the people of that day ment the long term supply of Gasoline was guaranteed to grow even without the automobile.
@@CtDDtC1919 Then please explain why EV charging station companies are quitting Australia in droves... The economics just doesn't add up. It's now cheaper to drive a petrol vehicle between our 2 biggest cities than an EV...
@@Chris-hx3om because it's a nascent market with currently high risk? Lol not really that strange. Oh how weird and unexpected that a bunch of startups in the disruptive new industry aren't succeeding wildly! Oh how strange that the fossil fuel infrastructure that the country has invested in for nearly a century is more mature and cost effective than the new one that is just being built out!
You read the story and got the moral backwards. The point is that new technology needs time to mature and commercialize, but thinking that it will never get better is silly and short sighted.
Great report, thanks Dr Sabine
Two main applications for short charge times:
1) Mass transit applications where the vehicle will be in constant use all day
2) If they create induction charging on special roadways you won't be on for more than a couple of minutes, eliminating the need for charging stations almost entirely (when investment in charging infrastructure becomes universally prioritized it can happen)
WHAT ABOUT THE CONDENSED AIR CARS ON CZcams THE FIRST ONE I WAS WATCHING ON THE SCIENCE CHANNEL IN EARLY TWO THOUSAND AND IT WENT 71 MI AN HOUR THEY ARE ON CZcams NOW AND SUPED UP YES AND NOT A BATTERY
Will be available in 2040. Great.
2040 is only 16 years away.
doesnt matter, what we have now works good
There are plenty of other technologies in the pipeline. 16 years is a bit long for many of us to wait.
Those batteries will be perfect for buses or trains which stop anyway for 2-3 minutes, in that time could charge a few miles. Every stop should have infrastructure, maybe wireless, but those buses or trains will have small batteries, so very cheap and very low weight buses and trains.
If you have like 100 charging cycles per day, you need a new battery every month. There's better storage for that: supercapacitors.
@@traumflug The energy of supercapacitors is like 2 watt/kilogram, impractical, but you have a point, a battery for that purpose should survive 10000 cycles at least, even being small and cheap enough to be easily replaceable.
That is the case only if the batteries are so small that each charge is a good fraction of full.@@traumflug
👋🏻 Sabine, these are for you as always 💐💐
Charging time is very important for road trips. I have a Chevy Bolt. It has a range of over 200 miles, and the only place I've ever charged it is in my garage. It's great for local driving. For road trips, I use my Toyota Prius. On a road trip I frequently drive 400-500 miles in a day, and occasionally more. For such trips, the long charging times greatly reduces the utility of the Bolt; there is a big difference between spending 5 minutes filling a gas tank and an hour charging the battery.
Same here: Bolt 2017 for daily, PriusV for long distance and camping.
Charging time matters for long distances, when you have to recharge during the journey.
Really? I mean don't people take breaks from driving?
I personally can eat in a car, but I refuse to poop there. I get driving 200 or even 300 miles. But who the heck needs to drive longer than that non-stop?
5min doesn't really matter even for longer range: with 250+ kW chargers you can recharge a Tesla from 10% to 70% in a shorter time than a bathroom break & getting a coffee takes.
You don't eat? You don't rest? You don't pee?
i have a model y.. i charge at home so each morning im at 80%.. that i never use in a day anyways, but its there. When i go on trips I have to charge every 3 hours which is perfect.. by the time the car is done ive had enough to time to get out, go get a coffee and something to buy to eat in the car, go for a bathroom break and stretch my legs a little. I never have an issue with the charging times when im on road trip.. its the right amount of time to give me a decent break.
Also for anyone who can't charge at home
I don't have a gas station at my home. I can leave the house every day with a full charge. So I've got that going for me, which is nice.
Same. Plus my house has a 6.5Kw solar system that produces a surplus. Even with charging the car overnight every 7 to 10 days, it hasn't affected my monthly utility bill. My home budgeting program shows that since I bought the EV (used for $9000)back in 2021, my annual vehicle expenditures have reduced by around $4800/year. The car has already paid for itself as of July 2023. I use it exclusively for local driving. If we were to take a trip out of town, which is very rare, we would take my wife's ICE vehicle.
The minute you're out of the city, traveling around a big country (think Australia), then all that 'full tank every day' becomes quite silly. Think about what happens when 'charging stations' are 500kms apart! I'll stick with my oil burner (and in doing so, I release less CO2 in 5 years than every new EV does the second someone signs up to buy it!).
@@CtDDtC1919 That all very nice when a family can afford 2 cars!
@@Chris-hx3om why do people always talk about rural Australia? Do you also think global chicken farm regulations should be made based on the biological needs of kangaroos?? Huh???
If you have an extreme outlier situation where a minority (not even globally, but even within the country of Australia, with but only 3m people living in rural areas) has a non standard living situation, the solution is NOT to make them the standard lol.
You know what else we don't put in the middle of the outback? Water parks and rollercoasters. Rural Australia is not a relevant market. They'll get specialized custom solutions because that's what they need - not the rest of the world.
Also.. You all realize that creating a gasoline car doesn't save you any emissions compared to an EV right? You're trying to compare total lifecycle emissions to a metric that only counts a fraction of that (usage). That's bad faith as hell.
@Chris-hx3om Thank you. It really is nice. You're right though, some people cant afford 2 cars, though. If they can't, then they should just buy a dependable vehicle running on 19th century technology. It will be with us for quite a while as the incoming technologies are refined over time.
4:36 “I really can’t think of any situation where I need to charge my phone in 5 minutes.” Sabine’s never needed to charge up in the hood.
There's a public safety issue. Where I live, we frequently need to evacuate for hurricanes. The evacuation routes get clogged and even with gas stations being as quick as they are, traffic gets backed up from all the people who need to fill up for what is about to be 8-12 hours of bumper to bumper traffic. If cars charge faster, you need fewer chargers to deal with surges like this. It's literally a matter of needing to power up quickly so you can flee a natural disaster.
so have you heard about charging at home, he?
@@romansenger2322 this isn't a solution for lots of people who use street side parking or lots of other common situations.
What happens at 1000 cycles?
subscription runs out
It’s usually an exponential decay. After the lifetime, 1000 here, it stores only 80% as much as when it was new-doesn’t matter how long it’s on the charger. Some batteries are claiming 8000-10000 cycles. The internal structure of the battery becomes degraded with every cycle. The further you discharge when using, the more damage is done to the battery.
This problem is inherent to current battery design. No one has found a way around that.
Some battery chemistries are better than others.
It’s all very complicated.
Battery construction research might enjoy long employment.
Total protonic reversal and mass destruction at the cellular level.
Edward is correct. 20% capacity loss is considered END of life for a battery. Mind you im still using batteries with less than 50% capacity remaining.
it will send you a amazon gift card, after redeeming you get a virus that will set ELon Musk as your desktop wallpaper forever
Sabine casually roasting S24 Ultra users had me rolling on the floor 😆
If you use your phone for 4K video, then a TB might make sense if you're on a long trip.
But is she wrong?
YES!@@barriedear5990
No coz most ov you ladies need 1 terrabyte for your selfies😂😂😂
'Ouch'! Lol!@@animalbird9436
Doing about 50.000km per year in electric vehicles.
Charging time matters a lot. So does range, but to a lesser extent. Range with today's vehicles only becomes a real issue under adverse conditions or while towing.
The main problem is providing the required power to the charging station. If I want to charge 100kWh in 5 minutes, I need 1.2MW of power, which is the output of a small hydroelectric power plant. Just for one charger.
On a road trip fast charging is a must.
yup.. i have tesla but i keep hearing horror stories of people that have to use other charger networks.
I just drove 2600 miles from CT to OH in a Kia EV6 and it was easy to charge. Just used abetterrouteplanner to plan the stops for me
I love you Sabine ❤😂
Because owners of combustion vehicles do not suffer from range anxiety, it can safely be assumed that range anxiety has indeed to do with charging speed and the availability of charging spaces. A higher charging speed also makes it possible to block existing charging spaces for a shorter time and thus helps to solve both problems at the same time.
In 1992 my friend bought a 486 PC and was tossing up between the 170MB and the 210MB harddrive. I just had a flashback to then when our other friend says in his think Czechoslovakian accent, "what on Earth you ever need 210MB for".
The biggest hurdle for an increased adoption of EV cars, in the US anyway, is comparing favorably to combustion engines. The biggest issue in perception is that it's hard to take road trips with EV cars. Quicker charging is necessary to replace the idea of filling up a gas car.
It's not necessary 98% of the time because we can charge overnight at home, but sometimes the exception is the barrier. EV cars need to get around this barrier.
Phone are too small, I welcome a bigger and replaceable battery in a phone
@sabine. Thank you so much (again) for the new format of the news. I respect you from the bottom of my heart. You make some of the best videos on the internet.
Lots of love to you.
Current Lithium technology batteries are limited by heat when it comes to charging or discharging. Unless the new Indium batteries are immune to the heat produced by current Lion, LiFePO4, LiPo batteries, the cooling demand will probably increase. It isn't just the pack that must be cooled, it is the wire connections that are limited. A very high rate of charge will melt the wired connections before the pack overheats and ignites. Heat dissipation, energy density, and the RATE of charge and discharge are all factors to consider when choosing which chemistry will do best in each application.
I like your shirt.
Needed a horizontal indigo line…
Much of the concern about (really really) fast charging comes from people who own ICE vehicles and imagine themselves standing waiting for the EV to fill up. The bulk of charging happens overnight at home and most of the rest happens during lunches, bathroom breaks and shopping. EV drivers are not typically "waiting" for their cars to charge. This causes the charging to rob less time from the EV driver than driving to the gas station, holding the nozzle and dealing with payment takes from the ICE driver.
I agree Sabine, I need more range vs faster charge. Here in the midwestern states it's not usual to drive 100 miles at 80 mph, visit mom, then drive back. I can charge overnight at home or I can charge at a hotel overnight if i'm driving across multiple states.. but with my current car and it's 64kw battery I can't get but about 130 miles (because you don't drive until it's dead and you don't charge to 100 percent every day nor at a fast charger.. My car is great (AMAZING) in the city but when I need to drive to a state or national park (which I love to do) the I have to charge multiple times on the road which drastically increases trip time. That's it for now, I need to go change the oil, oil filter, air filter, replace spark plugs, and check the coolant, serpentine belt and hoses in the other gas car..
I think you had a little grammar Faux Pas at the end there. The choice you gave us was: X amount of storage charges in 1hr, or 2X amount of storage and charges in 5min. Obviously we'd want the 2X/5min battery. You meant to say.... less storage but charges quickly, or lots of storage but charges slowly. And the winner is always having more storage (more range).
Which I totally agree with because that means you don't have to stop at all until you reach your destination for the evening, and once there you can just charge overnight while asleep.
-Matt
She misspoke earlier when she said the energy "density," 145 W·h/kg, was half that of other batteries. Twice as large could mean twice the volume or twice the mass
@@shanent5793 It is unclear what she was even comparing when she tried to quote energy density numbers, because there is a whole matrix of numbers that depend on whether you are talking about just raw cells, or including the battery pack structure. Whether gravimetric or volumetric. Temperature, cooling overhead, etc.
Regardless, it is all irrelevant because there is no requirement that a high-C-rate battery be less energy dense, or on any other parameter. Batteries are simply getting better across the board and ultimately they will tick off all the check boxes people want. Weight, volume, temperature, C-rate... everything. Everyone will be able to have their perfect slice of cake.
Absolutely agree, speed of charge is not the main issue batteries have.
Rather, they should be safer when damaged, and not using any rare earth materials.
While I agree. Rare earth minerals are not rare. Recycling is essential. Currently there are not enough too recycle at scale. Over time I see cells going in the direction you indicate. We have no idea how many researchers are working on cell technology. At least a million possibly several million. They will get there.
EV batteries are safer than ICE cars, which catch fire more easily than EVs.
@@bernhardbeschorner8331 you will need a better citation than your word for that claim.
the cost of the battery fire is steep and the smoke all by itself will kill you...
@@victormiranda9163 What is in the smoke that kills you - plastics ae the toxin in car fires.
Tesla are the largest user of batteries for vehicles and their fire incidence is only .01%.
National Fire Protection Association (NFPA): over 10 million highway vehicle fires caused about 19,000 deaths and over 70,000 injuries in the United States from 1980-2015.
"Our research found there's a 0.0012% chance your passenger electric vehicle battery will catch fire, which is a much smaller risk than we expected to find. Reliable sources regarding global internal combustion engine vehicle fires are difficult to verify, but overall many sources quote a 0.1% chance of your petrol or diesel car igniting."
evfiresafe: 'How common are EV fires?', Jan 18, 2022.
czcams.com/video/AdEUN4_UohM/video.html
Only 8% of BEV crashes result in a fire and 12.5% while driving (2020 survey by IDTechEX).
In June 2021, Click2Houston reported that over 6.5 million vehicles were under recall because they could catch fire at any moment, and the cars in question were not EVs.
ICE 60X more fires than BEVs per unit sold (Auto Insurance EZ, Bureau of Transportation Statistics and the National Transportation Safety Board). Contested. 1529.9 fires per 100k for gas vehicles and just 25.1 fires per 100k sales for electric vehicles.
“No fire onboard a ro-ro (roll-on/roll-off) or PCTC (Pure Car and Truck Carrier) has been proven to have been caused by a factory-new EV”. The International Union of Marine Insurance (IUMI).
You do not drive a car 24 hours a day. When you park, you park for more than five minutes. Where you park, there should be a charging terminal.
02:21 ”Does anyone really need a Terabyte of storage. Do you. For what?” 🤣
Thanks Sabine, always nice hearing an actual scientist comment on things
For people who live in apartments, going to the charging station twice a week for 20-30 minutes each time is a non-starter. We all know that an EV will say is has 170 miles in the battery and then after you drive 30 miles and it says you have 80 left. That means you need to recharge every two or three days. So we need batteries that can charge in 5-10 minutes. The slower charging time only works if you can afford a house, which in California, ironically the heart of the EV market, is less and less possible all the time.
It is not correct to say that apartment dwellers can't charge at home. Many can and do. It would be correct to say that it isn't universally possible to charge a full-sized EV at home as an apartment dweller. You have to advocate to have some EVSEs installed in parking slots with your landlord (or vote with your feet).
But ultimately it is a self-solving problem since, ultimately, all or nearly domestic parking slots will probably wind up with EVSEs. Even if they wind up only charging at a slow rate and using a shared circuit. What matters the most is just being able to plug in when you get home, not so much whether it takes the entire night to charge because five other vehicles are sharing the same circuit.
-Matt
@@junkerzn7312 Yeah that'll happen, just as soon as electricity is too cheap to meter..
@@captsorghum Urm... I think you suffer from a lack of imagination. Nobody said it would be free.
Not until the grids can support it safely. Just for fun, let's plug all phones, tablets and cars into the grid at the same time and see what happens.
so you are saying "it cannot work because something will break when i intentionally overload it"?
also charging EVs is not something time critical usually, it can easily be shifted to the nighttime base load, or to the midday solar generation peak...
Imagine what would happen if all cars decided to fill up with gas at the same time.
I'm pretty sure a single microwave turned on would be more load than 50 phones, why even put them there? They have around the same wattage as a light bulb
Turns out, rreiter, that people smarter than you have already long ago solved that problem.
@@junkerzn7312 So, um, how many more million cars on electricity in the next ten years, all wanting to charge at the same time, let alone in 5 minutes just when the power gets cheap at night... If the solution is to wait until the grid is upgraded, I agree with you, that has been solved.
It's important to note that fast charging will also be limited by the power available at the charging station, which either limits the number of available charges or increases the energy required at the charge station.
@@SimonWoodburyForget that would be true if any chargers had batteries. they don't and are already hundreds of thousands of dollars.
You always make my day with your dry humor and great science reports!
Yes, but the cost is the problem, Sabine.
Costs are on their way down. In another 10 years there will be a good used EV market too.
This is a random odd battery tech to discuss. I mean, there are much more promising battery technologies on its way.
I need 1TB of storage to store a memes
Sabine's spiel on Brilliant is as genuine as any ad has ever sounded to me.
Replacing expesive ingridients by even more expensive ingridients doesn't make much sense.
Take care be safe, some cars catch fire over night charging, and families are unable to get out
The reason you need a Terabyte is because it saves you from having to delete stuff. If the storage capacity divided by your rate of junk collection exceeds the time until the next great phone with TWO Terabytes comes out - then you never have to learn what that trashcan icon is for! 🙂
Good video Sabine.
"Does anyone really need a terabyte of storage?"
I do not know but I remember having heard similar statements several times before ...and they alway turned to be wrong. Let's see what the future brings.
1) Planned long distance road trips already maximize distance vs charge time. You don’t change over 80% per stop if you don’t have to because of the extra time it takes to top a battery off.
2) If you can reduce a charge stop to less time than it takes to fill a gas tank, you’ve won the battle against conversion.
3) we really should have other solutions to long distance travel, like high speed trains or planes.
It is important for electric car owners who live in apartments. They have no choice, but to charge their car at a public charging station, and I would not want to wait for 30 minutes everytime I charged it.
Many can also charge at work but I get that this IS a significant problem. The only good solution I have seen so far is the battery swap idea that NIO do but there are many issues with this too.
0:22 Hmm. In Li-ion batteries, the negative electrode is called the anode and the positive is called the cathode by convention (the behavior during discharge). Lithium ions are positively charged.
The graphic even shows positively charged ions moving as Sabine is saying "negatively charged ions".
I've been loyal to hybrid vehicles for many years. An excellent experience so far. Price, range, infrastructure and long charging times keep me away from full EVs. Once those challenges are overcome, I'll jump into the EV wagon eagerly.
“Does anybody need a terabyte of storage?” I remember when we said that about a megabyte.
I have watched a lot of different battery makeups and and a lot of them have this excellent charging and storing for a small number of cycles then the anode breaks down. Interesting idea long way to go.
There are 2 different energy densities Wh/kg and Wh/m^3. Really a surprise that Sabine mixed them up. So the battery is twice as heavy and not twice as large and that really matters as it influences your efficiency, if you have to carry around more mass.
You want to load within seconds even faster then refuel gasoline then go for supercapacitor, it is very expensive has up to 80 Wh/kg( with even higher published numbers in labs, but not applicable as product so far), but charges in an instant (if the charger could handle it).