There was one significant CZcamsr who "designed" a telescope and called it new when it was just a rebadged scope with different colours and livery then the company charged a fortune for it due to his endorsement. This company is now out of business.
Yes. I heard about that. I still very much enjoy that CZcamsr's content. I feel that there's a lot of pressure out there by companies to market their products, and that social pressure is hard to recognize. Especially how it affects CZcamsrs who do this full time. Even unpaid reviews aren't immune to that pressure!
Is this that cheesey Candian CZcamsr that focuses on all those great product placement shots that the German guy burnt to the ground? I can still feel the burn video like a bight blue 'O' type star just crisping him up with its ionizing rays. 🙂
I have declined an unpaid review for a device I couldn't think of any way to review it better then was already done by hundreds of people on CZcams before. That company was happy with my honesty. Just recently I got another request by another company. This time I am considering to do it. But only if there are no requirements such as a "review before this date" request or you can't say anything bad. So far the company says I can do whatever I want and whenever I have time for it. So thanks for this timely video.
@@deepskydetail I don't think so. But I just didn't feel like spending hours and hours on producing a video that basically already exists. I usually take about 5 to 8 hours per minute video (from planning to upload).
Excellent video. I've done a couple of unpaid reviews and the pace of requests that are coming in has increased a little bit. I've turned some down (some are not even related to astrophotography?!). I do feel like it's a minefield.. the last thing I want to do is compromise myself. Currently my way of thinking is If I get a product to review that turns out to be crap.. I'll let company know it and not post a review. Any reviews that I do post will include a close look at the data (both raw and processed). You've given me more food for thought on these, thanks!
Interesting thoughts and video, and I am really happy this video was suggested to me because you have some interesting content to watch later. Subscribed! In terms of reviews, I have done some unpaid reviews of products that were sent to me by a company-manufacturer. When offering me a product, they mentioned themselves I could say anything I wanted good or bad, so I agreed to film a review right away. I also agree with the idea that even if you buy something using your own money, your review can be possibly biased; however, when doing such reviews, it is also important to keep in mind whether you want this review to be beneficial for somebody or not.
Well thought out and presented, Mark! As a small (smaller than small) channel , there’s really no opportunities for sponsored videos paid or unpaid. I recently reached out to a distributor (not manufacturer) to see if they’d loan me an inexpensive product that I wanted to try out for the purposes of learning how to use it and then demo it in a video. No-go. Nowhere close to minimum subscribers. So I continue to work with what I have, paid for with my own money. I think it’s important to be aware of bias in this situation too, obviously who wants to give a bad review of something they spent their own money on. I think if we put our subscribers first and our own authentic selves up front we have a good chance of delivering valid and meaningful information. I like your approach, I would much sooner work with a distributor than a manufacturer for any sponsored videos. I think the chances of receiving a representative sample is better in that case.
Thank you, Doug! Those are good thoughts! I agree that there are pitfalls with paying for your own stuff too. Yes to this! --> "I think if we put our subscribers first and our own authentic selves up front we have a good chance of delivering valid and meaningful information."
This was a wonderful, well thought out, and researched video! I think this is one of the biggest challenges with navigating this age of new media. It makes it so that it is very difficult to know the truth about products, even from those who are seen as the "pillars" of the community. I think it can especially harm the younger/older generations who can be less aware of what is really going on behind the scenes. Thankfully in astronomy we still have places such as Cloudy Nights, which I have found to be much more accurate. I personally think very few people can do unpaid reviews honestly and your research just emphasizes that. I've tried to put myself in a CZcamsr's shoes and I think it would just be hard to know in one's own heart of hearts if I was still being objective after feeling honored by the company, spending lots of time with the product, and not wanting to damage a company's reputation. And to be honest, I'd guess most of the telescopes sent to reviewers are cherry-picked and checked for tilt/aberrations. I've bought scopes before that a reviewer was able to get a perfectly flat field out of the box, but mine could not even after adjusting backfocus and tilt in the smallest increments. Awesome video though. Subscribed!
Interesting video. I used to work in a manufacturing environment and sometimes management would be in a panic quality check something far more than before. I feel like if they send a product to a high profile channel for review they will send one that meets every specification as close as possible. Customer service will be on alert to treat this person extra special. I think companies that make premium products want them all to be perfect, but eventually, they have to sell them regardless.
I'd rather have these companies sponsor the videos and still give freedom in the review, at least the creator is getting paid E: yeah considering every review with supplied equipment as sponsored is the best way to go
I started astrophotography as a hobby some 4 years ago and watched numerous youtube videos on all sorts of aspects of the hobby. It's a very expensive hobby - well for me at least. So I fully understand that people giving (mostly) valuable info to others, like to see it compensated by some sort. So imho, up to the viewer to see thru the sponsored content. g.
Great comment! I started in the same way. I am really grateful for all the help I got on CZcams. I also think it led to an explosion in popularity for the hobby! Review videos are mostly useful, imo, and I wouldn't be in the hobby without some of them. I am worried that CZcamsrs are getting unnecessary pressure from companies to be their marketing arm though. Thanks!
Oh that was super sneaky, and I applaud it, ESPECIALLY in a video about manipulation.. The "You should 'join' your favourite youtube(s)" it's the best way to help *them* out. Brilliant, only wish I had beans to join your great channel.. I wish I had some social media to spread you about, you so deserve it.. Great video by the way.. They always are.
Fantastic video, have been thinking a lot about this as i am still fairly new to Astrophotography... lots of people i trust, but sometimes an underwhelming experience with the purchased product. Can i get you to review my comment, no restrictions, but you can keep my comment when you are done with it :)
Wow, what a long and convoluted way to say CZcams reviewers lie! I would always put more trust in a person buying the telescope with their own money. Astronomy CZcamsrs need to make it about the astronomy, not the products. I hate the ones that are changing their systems week after week and month after month because they get free equipment. It's not jellousy at all. The simple fact is that you need to get to know your equipment or system to get the most from it. Sticking with it for years but I guess that doesn't make great content, hence I don't have a CZcams channel.
It definitely does feel like new product reviews are flooding YT, which does sometimes annoy me. I do not think that CZcamsrs are lying though, which implies intent. I think the way companies are reaching out to them can sometimes influence their reviews. But, it depends on the specific situation and CZcamsr's personality. I'm afraid, for example, that I would be influenced by companies (just knowing my personality). So, I have decided for the time being to not do unpaid reviews. I can't speak for other CZcamsrs, but I'm sure that a lot of them are striving to provide quality reviews.
I'm sure that in the beginning, they believe they there were honest reviews. However, once you can associate them with a brand, it's over. It means the brand likes their review and is happy to push more products their way. Not naming names, but one CZcamsr even removed the stars from an image. I asked why, and of course, they were crapy, but they were sure that it was their fault!!! There was never any follow-up.,@@deepskydetail
Not sure if this is related to Sean Nielsen, and his comment about the restrictions he was offered to review our product from QHY. All the while making Cuiv look bad because he had just reviewed the same product. Implying he had an abide by the rules….
I was not even aware of this! When did this happen? I've just been thinking a ton lately about all the unpaid reviews on YT popping up, and I have mixed feelings! The video was my way of putting my thoughts down concretely, and hopefully helping the community out.
@@deepskydetail go to visible darks community posts. You’ll see it there. Pretty sure this was regarding the QHY auto focuser . At the same time Cuiv had his review on his channel. Cuiv chimed in saying he didnt see wrongdoing . Either way, I’m not sure what was Sean’s purpose outing the company. He could’ve kept it private and just say no. …
I think Shawn did the right thing, I don't think any honest person should profit on reviewing a product in which the manufacturer dictates the outcome of the review. I have seen stuff like this in other industries and it is illegal in some cases and I have seen people get sued or lose their job from doing similar things. Shawn was simply being truthful about why he didn't do the review and should not be blamed for any wrong doing. People don't make people look bad, wrongdoers do that to themselves. I can't speak for Cuiv nor ever would as I consider him a friend, I just hope that he didn't take money for doing that review and had QHY "signed off" on his video before putting the video out there, that would be messed up.
@@billblanshan3021 you’re one of my heroes in this hobby and I agree that he shouldn’tve done it; the review. Having g said that , he (and others )has benefited from optolong and QHY free stuff for some time.. While they do initially get them “on loan” most of not all of the time , they end up being allowed to keep them …. I also bought andnoptolong filter on his advice and did not care for the super halos
In my opinion the reviews are shady anyway. Suppose you get to review a ZWO product and you think it “sub-par”. What are the chances you’re going to be honest about that, knowing you’re chances are going to be slim you’ll get to review another ZWO product and your channel kind of depends on having those kind of high profile products?
Thanks for the comment! It is hard to know, isn't it? I think most youtubers are doing their best to do unbiased reviews. But the pressure to provide a biased review is definitely there. I think a lot of youtubers provide good reviews in general. As for myself, I don't think I can do unpaid reviews well though. I've just got that kind of personality. It just feels like a conflict of interest to be doing an astro educational channel while receiving equipment from companies to review.
Or Maybe you bought your telescope, and there's a worldwide kurfuffle going on and it takes almost 3 @#$% years for it to actually arrive at your doorstep... True Story
If I'm being honest with myself, I probably would have made similar decisions. CZcams is a weird place, I think. If your channel is big enough, you'll soon get flooded with offers to do reviews, sponsor a product etc. The algorithm (whatever that is!) tends to push out reviews of products/new products etc. because people watch them. That's a lot of pressure on someone to make deals and other things. It's something I don't think gets talked about enough. IMHO, the system is as much to blame as anything/anyone else. I still enjoy his content, and I learned a lot as a beginner from his channel. Also, love your pictures taken with your 80mm. I have the equivalent scope btw!
There was one significant CZcamsr who "designed" a telescope and called it new when it was just a rebadged scope with different colours and livery then the company charged a fortune for it due to his endorsement. This company is now out of business.
Yes. I heard about that. I still very much enjoy that CZcamsr's content. I feel that there's a lot of pressure out there by companies to market their products, and that social pressure is hard to recognize. Especially how it affects CZcamsrs who do this full time. Even unpaid reviews aren't immune to that pressure!
@@deepskydetail definitely agree with you. I highly respect him but he did make a big mistake there love his and your content
I feel like we should call out these people, giving them the benefit of anonimity is too much when they scammed people of their money
@@fenice319 no one was scammed and it wasn't criminal what happened but it was just something he did which he should have thought f better
Is this that cheesey Candian CZcamsr that focuses on all those great product placement shots that the German guy burnt to the ground? I can still feel the burn video like a bight blue 'O' type star just crisping him up with its ionizing rays. 🙂
I have declined an unpaid review for a device I couldn't think of any way to review it better then was already done by hundreds of people on CZcams before. That company was happy with my honesty. Just recently I got another request by another company. This time I am considering to do it. But only if there are no requirements such as a "review before this date" request or you can't say anything bad. So far the company says I can do whatever I want and whenever I have time for it.
So thanks for this timely video.
Thanks for sharing! Just curious, for the first offer, we're there any restrictions?
@@deepskydetail I don't think so. But I just didn't feel like spending hours and hours on producing a video that basically already exists. I usually take about 5 to 8 hours per minute video (from planning to upload).
Excellent video. I've done a couple of unpaid reviews and the pace of requests that are coming in has increased a little bit. I've turned some down (some are not even related to astrophotography?!). I do feel like it's a minefield.. the last thing I want to do is compromise myself. Currently my way of thinking is If I get a product to review that turns out to be crap.. I'll let company know it and not post a review. Any reviews that I do post will include a close look at the data (both raw and processed). You've given me more food for thought on these, thanks!
Thank you! I think you're approach is the correct one! Appreciate your thoughts and videos ;)
Interesting thoughts and video, and I am really happy this video was suggested to me because you have some interesting content to watch later. Subscribed!
In terms of reviews, I have done some unpaid reviews of products that were sent to me by a company-manufacturer. When offering me a product, they mentioned themselves I could say anything I wanted good or bad, so I agreed to film a review right away. I also agree with the idea that even if you buy something using your own money, your review can be possibly biased; however, when doing such reviews, it is also important to keep in mind whether you want this review to be beneficial for somebody or not.
Good thoughts! Thanks for sharing! I'm glad to hear that the company didn't have any restrictions :) I think most companies are like that, thankfully!
Well thought out and presented, Mark! As a small (smaller than small) channel , there’s really no opportunities for sponsored videos paid or unpaid. I recently reached out to a distributor (not manufacturer) to see if they’d loan me an inexpensive product that I wanted to try out for the purposes of learning how to use it and then demo it in a video. No-go. Nowhere close to minimum subscribers. So I continue to work with what I have, paid for with my own money. I think it’s important to be aware of bias in this situation too, obviously who wants to give a bad review of something they spent their own money on. I think if we put our subscribers first and our own authentic selves up front we have a good chance of delivering valid and meaningful information.
I like your approach, I would much sooner work with a distributor than a manufacturer for any sponsored videos. I think the chances of receiving a representative sample is better in that case.
Thank you, Doug! Those are good thoughts! I agree that there are pitfalls with paying for your own stuff too.
Yes to this! --> "I think if we put our subscribers first and our own authentic selves up front we have a good chance of delivering valid and meaningful information."
This was a wonderful, well thought out, and researched video! I think this is one of the biggest challenges with navigating this age of new media. It makes it so that it is very difficult to know the truth about products, even from those who are seen as the "pillars" of the community. I think it can especially harm the younger/older generations who can be less aware of what is really going on behind the scenes. Thankfully in astronomy we still have places such as Cloudy Nights, which I have found to be much more accurate.
I personally think very few people can do unpaid reviews honestly and your research just emphasizes that. I've tried to put myself in a CZcamsr's shoes and I think it would just be hard to know in one's own heart of hearts if I was still being objective after feeling honored by the company, spending lots of time with the product, and not wanting to damage a company's reputation. And to be honest, I'd guess most of the telescopes sent to reviewers are cherry-picked and checked for tilt/aberrations. I've bought scopes before that a reviewer was able to get a perfectly flat field out of the box, but mine could not even after adjusting backfocus and tilt in the smallest increments.
Awesome video though. Subscribed!
Thank you so much! I appreciate your thoughts, and agree with them. Thanks for subscribing :)
Interesting video. I used to work in a manufacturing environment and sometimes management would be in a panic quality check something far more than before. I feel like if they send a product to a high profile channel for review they will send one that meets every specification as close as possible. Customer service will be on alert to treat this person extra special. I think companies that make premium products want them all to be perfect, but eventually, they have to sell them regardless.
That's really interesting! Thanks for sharing!
I'd rather have these companies sponsor the videos and still give freedom in the review, at least the creator is getting paid
E: yeah considering every review with supplied equipment as sponsored is the best way to go
I started astrophotography as a hobby some 4 years ago and watched numerous youtube videos on all sorts of aspects of the hobby. It's a very expensive hobby - well for me at least. So I fully understand that people giving (mostly) valuable info to others, like to see it compensated by some sort.
So imho, up to the viewer to see thru the sponsored content.
g.
Great comment! I started in the same way. I am really grateful for all the help I got on CZcams. I also think it led to an explosion in popularity for the hobby! Review videos are mostly useful, imo, and I wouldn't be in the hobby without some of them. I am worried that CZcamsrs are getting unnecessary pressure from companies to be their marketing arm though.
Thanks!
Oh that was super sneaky, and I applaud it, ESPECIALLY in a video about manipulation.. The "You should 'join' your favourite youtube(s)" it's the best way to help *them* out. Brilliant, only wish I had beans to join your great channel.. I wish I had some social media to spread you about, you so deserve it.. Great video by the way.. They always are.
Thank you! I appreciate it :)
Well, that is a different kind of astronomy video! Thanks for lifting the veil on these reviews
Thanks, James!
Fantastic video, have been thinking a lot about this as i am still fairly new to Astrophotography... lots of people i trust, but sometimes an underwhelming experience with the purchased product.
Can i get you to review my comment, no restrictions, but you can keep my comment when you are done with it :)
Thank you! Of course I'll review your comment, but I'll have to refer people to this video before I do ;)
10/10
@@deepskydetail I will have to withdraw my offer then, too many restrictions...
This video is great and would do well even if it weren’t Astro-focused
Thank you!!
Wow, what a long and convoluted way to say CZcams reviewers lie! I would always put more trust in a person buying the telescope with their own money. Astronomy CZcamsrs need to make it about the astronomy, not the products. I hate the ones that are changing their systems week after week and month after month because they get free equipment. It's not jellousy at all. The simple fact is that you need to get to know your equipment or system to get the most from it. Sticking with it for years but I guess that doesn't make great content, hence I don't have a CZcams channel.
It definitely does feel like new product reviews are flooding YT, which does sometimes annoy me. I do not think that CZcamsrs are lying though, which implies intent. I think the way companies are reaching out to them can sometimes influence their reviews. But, it depends on the specific situation and CZcamsr's personality. I'm afraid, for example, that I would be influenced by companies (just knowing my personality). So, I have decided for the time being to not do unpaid reviews. I can't speak for other CZcamsrs, but I'm sure that a lot of them are striving to provide quality reviews.
I'm sure that in the beginning, they believe they there were honest reviews. However, once you can associate them with a brand, it's over. It means the brand likes their review and is happy to push more products their way. Not naming names, but one CZcamsr even removed the stars from an image. I asked why, and of course, they were crapy, but they were sure that it was their fault!!! There was never any follow-up.,@@deepskydetail
Not sure if this is related to Sean Nielsen, and his comment about the restrictions he was offered to review our product from QHY.
All the while making Cuiv look bad because he had just reviewed the same product. Implying he had an abide by the rules….
I was not even aware of this! When did this happen? I've just been thinking a ton lately about all the unpaid reviews on YT popping up, and I have mixed feelings! The video was my way of putting my thoughts down concretely, and hopefully helping the community out.
@@deepskydetail go to visible darks community posts. You’ll see it there.
Pretty sure this was regarding the QHY auto focuser .
At the same time Cuiv had his review on his channel.
Cuiv chimed in saying he didnt see wrongdoing .
Either way, I’m not sure what was Sean’s purpose outing the company.
He could’ve kept it private and just say no. …
@@Rafastro outing the company is being honest
I think Shawn did the right thing, I don't think any honest person should profit on reviewing a product in which the manufacturer dictates the outcome of the review. I have seen stuff like this in other industries and it is illegal in some cases and I have seen people get sued or lose their job from doing similar things. Shawn was simply being truthful about why he didn't do the review and should not be blamed for any wrong doing. People don't make people look bad, wrongdoers do that to themselves. I can't speak for Cuiv nor ever would as I consider him a friend, I just hope that he didn't take money for doing that review and had QHY "signed off" on his video before putting the video out there, that would be messed up.
@@billblanshan3021 you’re one of my heroes in this hobby and I agree that he shouldn’tve done it; the review.
Having g said that , he (and others )has benefited from optolong and QHY free stuff for some time..
While they do initially get them “on loan” most of not all of the time , they end up being allowed to keep them ….
I also bought andnoptolong filter on his advice and did not care for the super halos
In my opinion the reviews are shady anyway. Suppose you get to review a ZWO product and you think it “sub-par”. What are the chances you’re going to be honest about that, knowing you’re chances are going to be slim you’ll get to review another ZWO product and your channel kind of depends on having those kind of high profile products?
Thanks for the comment! It is hard to know, isn't it? I think most youtubers are doing their best to do unbiased reviews. But the pressure to provide a biased review is definitely there. I think a lot of youtubers provide good reviews in general.
As for myself, I don't think I can do unpaid reviews well though. I've just got that kind of personality. It just feels like a conflict of interest to be doing an astro educational channel while receiving equipment from companies to review.
@deepskydetail I forgot to thank you for this excellent video! Thanks!
👏👏👏👏👏
Or Maybe you bought your telescope, and there's a worldwide kurfuffle going on and it takes almost 3 @#$% years for it to actually arrive at your doorstep... True Story
Oh man! I thought it was bad when I had to wait 6 months! 3 years is crazy!
biggest corporate liar in this beautiful hobby imo is Trevor..
If I'm being honest with myself, I probably would have made similar decisions. CZcams is a weird place, I think. If your channel is big enough, you'll soon get flooded with offers to do reviews, sponsor a product etc. The algorithm (whatever that is!) tends to push out reviews of products/new products etc. because people watch them. That's a lot of pressure on someone to make deals and other things. It's something I don't think gets talked about enough. IMHO, the system is as much to blame as anything/anyone else. I still enjoy his content, and I learned a lot as a beginner from his channel. Also, love your pictures taken with your 80mm. I have the equivalent scope btw!