You should patent those Coolant Proof Bandaids. I was at Standridge yesterday and they were talking about you. They love you there Sir Stan! Angles much better when you were done.
Sweet work Stan. The more of your videos I watch the More I want to learn about surface grinders and the better I feel about buying purchasing mine. Thanks for your time invested.
My B & S 2L has fixed graduations on the Y and Z hand wheels, not adjustable. I just need to write down the number I need to match, not quite as elegant, but it works...
1) Maybe I was trained wrong and have been doing it wrong for 44 years. We always dressed the wheel on start up and left the wheel running while setting the parts. And I've run surface grinders from 612 Taft Pierce & Harig up to Mattison with a 48 by 120. 2) When grinding for really close work in terms of parallelism (not to be confused with flatness) we always mounted the work on magnetic parallels (the transfer type, not the permenent magnetic ones) that were dusted off in situ. These would be left in place with the magnet on. The work would then be placed on top of them. I used to rebuild machine tool spindles in my old job and regularily ground bearing spacers to .00005" or less using these methods 3) When gringing the vees. Why not grind off of a known good vee block. The only time we used a 45° profile wheel was grinding the vees ways on machine bases or wheel head slides on grinders Otherwise it looks like you do nice work. Remember always more than one way to skin the cat
Your right as a toolmaker for many years i find this guys technique suspect .. angle grinding attatchment s are not a good way of doing precision work you won't get the accuracy or flatness a sine chuck is the best best way or as you say a master vee block.. also using coolant and air? Maybe for a lot of stock removal but grinding dry saves all the mess if the job gets warm cool it off and tickle the last few tenths of to size. If I had been doing that job I wouldn't have used any coolant at all an I suspect you'd be the same, I live in South Africa now but served my time with the LS Starrett Co in Scotland, started in 1961 and did 5 years keep well
@@dougiehogarth6652 One reason we always left the wheel running after dressing. Is the simple fact that on start up especially on small direct drive grinders. It is all to easy to have the wheel shift and you are back to square one. As to grinding off of a sacrificial surface. Anything I had to do that needed to be dead on was done this way. That's what happens when you're in a shop that saw work going on 24/7 for years. Plus most machine tools tend to have certain wear patterns. Lathes no matter how long the bed most jobs aren't very long. Mills, most wear takes place in the center of the table ways. The same thing happens with surface grinders. Most times the total travel used is 50% or less. When I was still working in the Tool Room of an automotive plant. I made a set of 5C collet blocks. I already had the standard square and hex. I made 5, 7, 8, 9 and 10 sided blocks. The center height of the blocks with a pin held in a precision Hardinge collet was around .0005"/.013mm. With parallelism .0001"/.002mm over 50mm on the pin. To index the blocks on the grinder (and mill) I made up specific angle blocks. At the time I was interested in scale radial engines. The spacing of features on a 7 cylinder can be tricky. The only set of odd sided collet blocks I've ever seen.
Thanks for the interesting series Stan. Interesting wheel dresser. A vibratory tumbler may be just the thing for knocking down the sharp edges and giving the blocks a fancy finish.
Thanks Stan, enjoyed your video. Question, how would you do a v-block where the v is wider than the wheel? I have a 4" set of v-blocks I would like to do but not sure how to get it done. I was wondering about using a magnetic sine plate to set the blocks at the 45° angle?
Yes, you would have to tilt the v block on a sine plate and traverse across the V groove, 1 side per time. That is another perfectly good method. Same rules apply, parallel, dressed fence, clean, clean, clean.
Hi Stan, I am curious about leaving the wheel on versus turning off between runs; have had some input that the wheel should remain turning between the dress and the cut, appreciate your comments on this thank you
Hi Stan, Nice pair...!!! Of V blocks... Like you say, precision within a tenth is A LOT OF WORK, mostly when it's got to be in ALL the dimensions on the SAME part... ;) Cheers, Pierre
Hi Stan/others. Question about grinding the 45's. You mentioned in another comment that in cases where the V is wider than your wheel, tilting the block to 45 degrees would be acceptable. As to which method is the "best", am I right to assume dressing the 45 on the wheel is the preferred, or most accurate method? Not to try and get into the weeds too much on the subject but i'm generally trying to learn what would make the dressing approach the best option. I'm thinking that it reduces the # of variables involved?? If I were, for example, to hold a V-Block at 45 degrees in my B&S magnetic V-Block so that I could flat grind the V's, and if the results were off by some amount, i'd potentially then have to chase down multiple sources that lead to the problem? Then again, I guess this goes back to your 'master' fixturing references. If the B&S is spot on, then it should work?? Am I even close with my train of thought?
Dressing your wheel at a 45 is subject to wheel deformation, sitting up on a sine plate with a mag would give better averaging as you traverse across the part.
@@ShadonHKW Interesting. I hadn't thought about that. So "It depends" may be the answer. Thanks for the insight Stan. Good stuff to add to the mental rolodex...
...WHY do the fences get ground a lot? Once it has been trued up, what makes it go off? I can't picture the small sideways forces pushing the fence around, even if you are sidewheeling towards it. Since the parts are stationary on the table I don't see much abrasion potential. What am I missing here?
How is your compressed air/coolant system setup to turn on and off with the grinder? Do you have a Red Hat valve on the compressed air line tied into the grinder's on/off switch?
Hlo sir my problem laith machine upar slide how to repair tepar and i add just slide but one side smooth and other side very tite slide who to solve tell my please thank you
That's interesting, Tom Lipton always calls it paralism, but it's actually parallelism, as odd as it sounds, I figured paralism was correct as it sounds and is so much easier to say lol...great video! Side note: I did actually go look it up to see. I'm a nerd like that.
Stan, please explain why you get sparks for several passes when the in feed is not changed. It would seem to me that after one slow pass there would be no material left to grind off. What am I missing? Great video! Jon
Pretty much that, the wheel simply can't grind everything in a quick pass, those passes are in the order of mostly less than a tenth, it doesn't many atoms to make a visible spark... ;)
i belive that on a microscopic level the wheel being x#of grit leaves voids in the wheel face, hence the pass leaves''hi spots''' that additional passes catch and spark out. could also be fairies
There will still be material removed for a lot of passes, mostly because of deflection due to pressure. This deflection can occur in everthing related to the operation. So: - Parts that you work on - Cutter/grinder - Frame/body of the surfacegrinder - Axle of the grinder, bearings and so on. to get more accurate dimensions you do the same with milling, a finishing pass (or a couple) to get to the final dimensions. In milling you will see this even more (especially with small endmills that will bend a bit while cutting)
Awesome technique and explanation !
excellent... thoroughly enjoyed!
You should patent those Coolant Proof Bandaids. I was at Standridge yesterday and they were talking about you. They love you there Sir Stan! Angles much better when you were done.
Nice work Stan.
Great video Stan
Sweet work Stan. The more of your videos I watch the More I want to learn about surface grinders and the better I feel about buying purchasing mine. Thanks for your time invested.
GREAT VIDEO !!!
Nice job Stan.
Nice work on the blocks. I need to look at the hand wheels on mine and see how they are locked down so I can zero them out.
My B & S 2L has fixed graduations on the Y and Z hand wheels, not adjustable. I just need to write down the number I need to match, not quite as elegant, but it works...
Sharpie works fine for fixed wheels :)
Very good
1) Maybe I was trained wrong and have been doing it wrong for 44 years. We always dressed the wheel on start up and left the wheel running while setting the parts. And I've run surface grinders from 612 Taft Pierce & Harig up to Mattison with a 48 by 120.
2) When grinding for really close work in terms of parallelism (not to be confused with flatness) we always mounted the work on magnetic parallels (the transfer type, not the permenent magnetic ones) that were dusted off in situ. These would be left in place with the magnet on. The work would then be placed on top of them. I used to rebuild machine tool spindles in my old job and regularily ground bearing spacers to .00005" or less using these methods
3) When gringing the vees. Why not grind off of a known good vee block. The only time we used a 45° profile wheel was grinding the vees ways on machine bases or wheel head slides on grinders
Otherwise it looks like you do nice work. Remember always more than one way to skin the cat
Your right as a toolmaker for many years i find this guys technique suspect .. angle grinding attatchment s are not a good way of doing precision work you won't get the accuracy or flatness a sine chuck is the best best way or as you say a master vee block.. also using coolant and air? Maybe for a lot of stock removal but grinding dry saves all the mess if the job gets warm cool it off and tickle the last few tenths of to size. If I had been doing that job I wouldn't have used any coolant at all an I suspect you'd be the same, I live in South Africa now but served my time with the LS Starrett Co in Scotland, started in 1961 and did 5 years keep well
@@dougiehogarth6652
One reason we always left the wheel running after dressing. Is the simple fact that on start up especially on small direct drive grinders. It is all to easy to have the wheel shift and you are back to square one. As to grinding off of a sacrificial surface. Anything I had to do that needed to be dead on was done this way. That's what happens when you're in a shop that saw work going on 24/7 for years. Plus most machine tools tend to have certain wear patterns. Lathes no matter how long the bed most jobs aren't very long. Mills, most wear takes place in the center of the table ways. The same thing happens with surface grinders. Most times the total travel used is 50% or less.
When I was still working in the Tool Room of an automotive plant. I made a set of 5C collet blocks. I already had the standard square and hex. I made 5, 7, 8, 9 and 10 sided blocks. The center height of the blocks with a pin held in a precision Hardinge collet was around .0005"/.013mm. With parallelism .0001"/.002mm over 50mm on the pin. To index the blocks on the grinder (and mill) I made up specific angle blocks. At the time I was interested in scale radial engines. The spacing of features on a 7 cylinder can be tricky. The only set of odd sided collet blocks I've ever seen.
Thanks for the interesting series Stan. Interesting wheel dresser. A vibratory tumbler may be just the thing for knocking down the sharp edges and giving the blocks a fancy finish.
Nice vid Stan, as always this one fits into" how do they do that" for me. Thanks and cheers!
Very nice job on the blocks, great insight on the grinding.
I don't need a surface grinder but every time I see your videos I want one. Nice job.
stan nice work.
Thanks Stan, enjoyed your video. Question, how would you do a v-block where the v is wider than the wheel? I have a 4" set of v-blocks I would like to do but not sure how to get it done. I was wondering about using a magnetic sine plate to set the blocks at the 45° angle?
Yes, you would have to tilt the v block on a sine plate and traverse across the V groove, 1 side per time. That is another perfectly good method. Same rules apply, parallel, dressed fence, clean, clean, clean.
Hi Stan, I am curious about leaving the wheel on versus turning off between runs; have had some input that the wheel should remain turning between the dress and the cut, appreciate your comments on this thank you
I have tried both methods, a lot of people swear up and down to NEVER turn the wheel off after dressing, I just cant find any (measurable) difference.
Hi Stan,
Nice pair...!!! Of V blocks...
Like you say, precision within a tenth is A LOT OF WORK, mostly when it's got to be in ALL the dimensions on the SAME part... ;)
Cheers, Pierre
Thanks for the instruction video.
Is it possible to grind the V blocks using a sine plate?
New subscriber here.
Take a peek at this method czcams.com/video/LtX5E4ttIiw/video.html
Hi Stan/others. Question about grinding the 45's. You mentioned in another comment that in cases where the V is wider than your wheel, tilting the block to 45 degrees would be acceptable. As to which method is the "best", am I right to assume dressing the 45 on the wheel is the preferred, or most accurate method? Not to try and get into the weeds too much on the subject but i'm generally trying to learn what would make the dressing approach the best option. I'm thinking that it reduces the # of variables involved?? If I were, for example, to hold a V-Block at 45 degrees in my B&S magnetic V-Block so that I could flat grind the V's, and if the results were off by some amount, i'd potentially then have to chase down multiple sources that lead to the problem? Then again, I guess this goes back to your 'master' fixturing references. If the B&S is spot on, then it should work?? Am I even close with my train of thought?
Dressing your wheel at a 45 is subject to wheel deformation, sitting up on a sine plate with a mag would give better averaging as you traverse across the part.
@@ShadonHKW Interesting. I hadn't thought about that. So "It depends" may be the answer. Thanks for the insight Stan. Good stuff to add to the mental rolodex...
A very parallelistic result.
...WHY do the fences get ground a lot? Once it has been trued up, what makes it go off?
I can't picture the small sideways forces pushing the fence around, even if you are sidewheeling towards it. Since the parts are stationary on the table I don't see much abrasion potential. What am I missing here?
Fences get removed and reinstalled very often, they never go on exactly the same twice.
Fantastic work ace presentation Stan, 👍
Really enjoyed the grinding insight.
-- Cheers, Gary
Thanks Stan! Nicely done video. Just enough commentary with good views of what you are doing.
Nice series Stan, I enjoyed it and learned some too. I see you get your band aids from the same place I get mine. Keep up the good work.
How is your compressed air/coolant system setup to turn on and off with the grinder? Do you have a Red Hat valve on the compressed air line tied into the grinder's on/off switch?
Small ASCO valve tied into the VFD switching circuit.
Hlo sir my problem laith machine upar slide how to repair tepar and i add just slide but one side smooth and other side very tite slide who to solve tell my please thank you
As always, i learned a lot. thanks Stan
Any value in setting up a switch to turn your coolant on and off as the workpiece goes past the nozzle?
Currently have a 3 position drum switch / 1- spindle, no coolant / 2- off / 3- spindle + coolant, I'm pretty happy with that.
We can sure tell who is an electrician from the black tape bandages. :)
That's interesting, Tom Lipton always calls it paralism, but it's actually parallelism, as odd as it sounds, I figured paralism was correct as it sounds and is so much easier to say lol...great video!
Side note: I did actually go look it up to see. I'm a nerd like that.
Stan, please explain why you get sparks for several passes when the in feed is not changed. It would seem to me that after one slow pass there would be no material left to grind off. What am I missing? Great video! Jon
Yan Wo Hi John, I attribute spark out to machine and wheel deflection, but its just my personal theory.
Pretty much that, the wheel simply can't grind everything in a quick pass, those passes are in the order of mostly less than a tenth, it doesn't many atoms to make a visible spark... ;)
i belive that on a microscopic level the wheel being x#of grit leaves voids in the wheel face, hence the pass leaves''hi spots''' that additional passes catch and spark out. could also be fairies
There will still be material removed for a lot of passes, mostly because of deflection due to pressure. This deflection can occur in everthing related to the operation. So:
- Parts that you work on
- Cutter/grinder
- Frame/body of the surfacegrinder
- Axle of the grinder, bearings and so on.
to get more accurate dimensions you do the same with milling, a finishing pass (or a couple) to get to the final dimensions. In milling you will see this even more (especially with small endmills that will bend a bit while cutting)
Stef's Engineering heat is the biggest offender in grinding. when deal in with .0001