Rupert Neve 5060 Mixer - A Chocolate Teapot?
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- čas přidán 13. 09. 2024
- Here's my first look at the 5060 "Centrepiece" from Rupert Neve, is it a mixer, is it a summer, is it a controller? I guess the lesson is to properly research stuff before you buy it!
Here's more info on the little #rupertneve monster: rupertneve.com... and here's that film about the live show I did: • Scoring A Live TV Show...
For those of us who would research the bejeezus out of a purchase an order of magnitude less expensive than this, this prompts me to make my first negative comment on any Spitfire/CH video: I have to say, not having done such basic research on an 8 grand piece of kit comes across as sloppy if I'm being generous, and irresponsibly frivolous and profligate if I'm being less so. There will likely be people watching this for whom $8,000 would represent the most substantial purchase they may ever make outside of their home, so to make such purchases apparently with such abandon, leaves a sour taste, at least for this avid watcher and consumer of everything else you do. Rant over.
This is true, but I have to say that given the context in which it was purchased - excess for stability was perhaps not a bad choice.
RLeaguer2
Amen!
'There will likely be people watching this for whom $8,000 would represent the most substantial purchase they may ever make outside of their home, so to make such purchases apparently with such abandon, leaves a sour taste, at least for this avid watcher and consumer of everything else you do.' Jesus wept - how's the view from the top of that horse?
I do get serious gear envy and I am jelous that I can't afford to splash the cash like this at the drop of a hat BUT I bloody would if I was in a position to do so!
People were asking about this unit so I guess he's just answering that... I've bought gear in the past and made daft mistakes like this, albeit much less expensive ones! Then again, I'm also not a working media composer and owner of a very successful company.
RLeaguer2 a very good observation, in my defence it was bought to perform a very specific task some weeks ago and on the recommendation of my supplier who said it was perfect for the task it was required for. I bought it second hand for a good price and thought it suited the secondary job of building my “out of the box” rig. I researched it extensively (for me) and simply didn’t notice it didn’t have pan pots because that would be ridiculous right. Hence the somewhat comic re-enactment of this very embarrassing revelation. Now if I had then thrown it on a skip I would support the spirit of your comment but it is going to be the centrepiece of my set up and I will use 90% of its functions and will have to be a little bit tin pot about how I pan. I think the spirit of the video was to say “I’ve been a bit of an idiot. But don’t blame me for presuming a mixing desk would have panning functionality like my Tascam Porta One did!”.
I own a 5060 and absolutely love it. It’s a baby 5088. It has been a game changer for my sound and workflow. One of the best purchases I have made to date. Rupert Neve is The Godfather of recording.
5060 product page on RND web site shows three different use cases for this unit. If you use it for what it was designed for it’s great. I own one and love it. Best summing mixer on the market.
If you want to get an idea of what the 4 mono channels are all about, you have to imagine plugging in up to two of the "Rupert Neve 5059 Satellites>>. By this you should be able to mix 32 channels of mono paths in total, with separate Pan for each of them. Each 5059 Satellite consumes 2 Mono Channels on the 5060 Centerpiece then. So you get two times two Faders to sum the satellites, plus you get an additional of 8 stereo channels for your synths and other stuff. And all that for approximately around 15 thousand dollars, modularly customized to your needs, and in a desktop friendly box. Take some low latency Dante Audio Interfaces plus some Vintage Plugins from Universal Audio for example, and you fully brought your Vintage High End Studio into the digital world of the 21st century. Does that sound amazing? If not, compare it to the prices and form-factors of big consoles and ask yourself why you would need all the expensive and space consuming and heavy-weight EQs, Dynamics, channel strips in a modern DAW Setup, if you would use this in the end most of the time only for summing, monitoring, etc..
"you don't know what you got until it's gone" - pan pot
The "no pan" design is actually a feature. Panning is simply a sum of a mono signal sent to both A and B out puts. When you use stereo mic techniques, the stereo image includes things like room reflections, which will differ from side to side, and which any competent engineer/producer will want to preserve. This is done by keeping the lines and outputs discrete. Line 1, Output A, Line 2 Output B. These lines can be effectively "panned" by lowering the level of one in comparison to the other. This is not a "summed" pan. It is a discrete side A vs side B comparison, which keeps the stereo reflections intact.
I haven't got one of these wonderful Neves, but I use an old broadcast mixer that also has no pan pots. When you learn that what we know as panning is just a summed form of A v B, outputs you realize there is nothing wrong with the "no-pan" design. In many cases, it is a superior design, because it will prevent you from panning away the stereo room reflections that give a stereo image a sense of space.
I enjoyed watching the delivery trucks drive by in the background and I half imagined them bringing more modular goodies.
me too!!
RLeaguer2 - Is that you Mrs Henson? 😍
You should look at Rupert Neve 5059 Satellite, which complements the 5060. It does what you look for.
Appreciate this type of honesty! We've all been there done that. At least you did it and your box still says "Neve" on it--Could be worse Thanks for being fearless (and rather funny) in admitting the learning curve mistakes most of us make in secret and putting it out in the public eye for others to learn from. Keep your modular journey content coming!
I know the video and channel is about audio/music, but WHAT A SHOT in the beginning. Beautiful location and image.
Hi Christian. Would you mind doing a follow up video on this please? I'm really interested in your feelings now that you've had it for a while. I am planning to include it in my workflow and would love to hear your latest on it. Thanks!
I've been trying to understand what this unit really is and it seems most obvious now that it is essentially NOT a mixer. It's more simply a summing mixer. It's not a desk. It's a way to monitor and do final balancing with pristine analog hardware.
Its basically a 24 track 5059 Satellite with HUI control and more zeros in the price tag.
Glad you made this video. When you said you bought this "Because I needed a way of muting one track and unmuting another" in your Inside no9 video I did laugh, although I understand you want something you can trust
SSL XL desk .a bit larger footprint but has pans and also 500 series slots
I'm really glad it has a off and on button that's pretty rare these days
I like Christian's honesty on this. That is why his channel is so good to watch. You will never make a good impression on other people until you stop thinking about what sort of impression you are making.
Being the nerd I am, neve just seems like the ultimate engineers brand. I’ve always wondered about this particular unit but I’m a bit underwhelmed. I would however love to get a neve preamp
His "elephant in the room" problem is a non-issue. As he said, if you want something panned a certain way then just bring it in as a stereo buss, panned from the DAW, or a 5059 and keep it in stereo mode. I only use the mono setting on channels I don't want panned left or right (hence mono), like kick, snare, bass, lead vocal. Otherwise, just use it for summing and adding inserts on stereo busses as it was intended. The mono option is just their as a useful bonus feature, but the 5059 is a great addition or substitute if you want inserts and panning for more channels.
I am reminded of an ancient string machine which I bought thirty five years ago. It looked the biz and had everything I needed in a string machine (it was the 80's... don't laugh). Then it nearly burned the house down. Only a barking dog saved the day. Moral of the tale: investigate fully before purchasing. And after.
Well... it's designed as a final summing mixer for your DAW outputs into a master recorder (back into the DAW, a tape machine, 1-bit DSD, whatever). In this context the mono tracks would be used for dry main vocal mix, bass guitar, kick drum etc where the engineer wants to be ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that they are dead centre. A lot of engineers would never bother using it this way but this is a top end piece of kit and some some superstar engineers can be completely anal about this sort of thing. It's quite a common facility on summing mixers. As a general purpose mixer for synths and modular etc. this would not have been my recommendation - awesome though it is.
This. I only know one other person with this piece of kit... and thats exactly how he uses it. Summing. Not to say you cant use it as Christian wants to... but If purchased, I would only use to sum and do any panning etc in the DAW.
Vincent Rice If you stem mix as I do it’s perfect. I send my drum bus to channels 1-2, bass, kick and snare to 3-4 in mono, guitars and keys to 5-6, and vocals to 7-8. Everything else including fx sends go to 9-24 rotary faders. I insert analog processing on the analog inputs of 1-8. Push the master section along with analog insert and back into ProTools. Add “silk” to taste and done. It loves to be pushed and it has headroom for days. It glues like a big console to my ears. Those that are lucky enough to work on a 5088 have said it sounds very close. It has a lot of the same guts as the 5088. The sound is incredible. Demo one, but be prepared to take out your wallet afterwords. It has sped up my workflow exponentially. Cheers!
Thanks Christian, I was looking into this one some time ago but decided no on the buy very much because of the reasons you mention. It's probably a beast but for the price they should have focused a bit more on the core use of a summing mixer. For me that would be 8 stereo channels on 8 faders, and I wouldn't mind the faders to be closer to keep the small foot print. Also wouldn't mind a Neve EQ but that would put it into a completely different price range.
Yes... I guess its really designed as a breakout summing box for a DAW so probably not the most perfect solution for an "Unboxed" set up... I don't mind hacking my workflow to embrace this beast though.
@@TheCrowHillCo Looking forward watching how it works out for you.
Pretty much all of my synth have PAN and automation/animation of it via LFO's on board... plus you would be standing at the synth not the mixer during a performance.. Its a summing mixer not mixer-mixer.
I’m glad someone with half a brain is talking sense around here.
Some men have their cars, Christian Henson has his Modular Mondays
Nahos that’s me! Polishing my modular out front in the drive on a Sunday morning!
If you’re not using the controller... why are you using this?
The manual mentions 1-8 "channels can be either stereo or center-panned mono" not left biased. Or you can buy an add on that gives pan control . . . . more big dosh!
The whole outboard thing really isn't for me but MM is never anything less than a fascinating watch so I'll always be tuning in
I have the 5060 in my recording studio. I am not using the mono feature but considered it a way of saving some I/O channels for use on bass, kick/snare, vocals which are pretty much straight up the middle in most music. Maybe in composition you vary that more. For recall and automation anyway I want all volume and pan in the box. This may be confirmation bias but wow does it sound great! I will say though that you have to mix into it so I am not expecting any stunning revelations in the shootout with the Neve summing box.
At last, a mixer for my 8 Juno-6s!!
Thanks Christian, I can't tell you how many times I've looked at this and thought, only 4 channels? Really handy revue. Now if they could just make it 5.1 with 8 stereo faders and under 5k....
Sorry, I am slow to the take. So channels 1 to 8 are summed on the faders. 9 to 24 operate via knobs at the top, same function but cheaper and uses less space. Other than that the 4 faders and the knobs serve the same purpose? I thought they were pan knobs till I looked the labels heh. I thought you must activate a switch to use the faders for the other channels, and the top would be panning. I'd prefer that.
not sure, but I think you suppose to drive those stereo channels with your DAW stereo subgroups outs, that is why it has that usb there, and midi input is for connecting your midi controller (keyboard) so it is a sound card and sum mixer. no need for panoramas.
Thanks Christian for sharing this, I guess all of us has these purchases when we have a very clear idea in our head about how the new toy will fit into the great picture and there is the occasional "7:20" moment captured here very authentically :-) You're an inspiration, as always, I don't know how many of my musician friends have been reduced to "modular tinkerers", being totally consumed by the idea of making music with just their modular setup and I have always thought I will not fall into that trap, but maybe I will give it a try.
I had a quick look at this when you first showed it on the live show clip but the price tag made me jump up and run for cover.
Considering the DAW controls I guess they expect this to be used post-DAW and the stereo config is there to retain a stereo input signal where panning is already applied?
Local Technique You are correct. Panning stays consistent from DAW settings. No need for pans on the 5060. Hasn’t slowed my workflow one bit. It sounds incredible.
Can’t you set your pans in the DAW?
You can, but that would mean you are mixing stems in your DAW which kind of defeats the purpose of the unit. You lose the magic of individual things hitting the high end summing bus hard.
Of course you can pan in your DAW, I would think you're buying this unit for the purposes of it's sound and connectivity flexibilities. Not worrying about whether you can pan a mono channel.
A nice review. Thank you so much
Yep! .... we have all been there... or will go there :D It still should sound amazing :D
Hi Christian, great video. How does it compare to the other neve summing mixer?
I think this unit was really made for summing stereo tracks from a DAW where you would do all your panning. That being said, why would there be mono capable inputs (switch on the back) with no way to pan them (unless I misunderstood that) ?
Yes, this is what did my head in, and made me realise "fuck this has no pan pots!".
Its funny Christian, I was looking into this box a while back for my small setup but changed course. Its an interesting box for sure but its not designed to be anything but a summing box. I ended up with an Apollo 8p. If I ever need more i/o, its expandable.
I think the eight channels are supposed to represent the group stage before summing. So why would they include a mono switch? Maybe people use it for other purposes like applying outboard to channels and rerecording to the daw. But yes, pan pots would have been a brilliant addition. I have seen a few illustrations where they encourage the use of two 5059 satellites before the 5060, which do have pan pots and individual inserts. But, there's another $10K for two 5059 satellites.
i can plug in all 3 of my VCR's??
In my composing studio I've got the Tascam model 24 mixer. May I use the Neve 5059 summing mixer, Portico II Master with Shadow Hills compressor along side my Tascam 24 "out of the box" rig?
They need to update with (at least) 8 faders, pans and better I/O, not just DSUBs.
They can lose the transport control section. Maybe even a send or two.
Can price it like the API Box.
I've been wondering about the 5060 so I'll be looking forward to seeing more videos in the future.
I bought a BMW 325i wagon and didn't realize it doesn't have a spare tire, making it a rather poor car for my usage. Fortunately I bought it from a used dealer who offered a 3 day trial period so I could take it back and get something more suitable.
It just never occurred to me that I might need to check to see if a car had a spare tire. It's not just that there wasn't a spare tire -- there is no place to put one! So I understand your frustration.
run flats?
Yes. Unique-to-the-car run flats. I travel a lot of long distances on nights and weekends for work. If you get a flat on a Friday night you might be stuck until Monday or Tuesday.
It might not be the best episode of modular mondays, but that skit at 6:48 is the funniest one though. :P
The "Silk" is a Neve design harmonic saturation. It comes in 2 flavors, blue and red for bottom or top end enhancement, I'm sure your manual will tell you exactly. Fussing about pan pots for this mixer is like getting upset because your Lambo doesn't have a trailer hitch. This was designed to be a summing mixer for DAW output, I assume the idea is that you can pan in the box. A true analog mono for bass is much better than mono ITB in my opinion. Most importantly HOW DOES IT SOUND??? It is a NEVE!!!
A clever person reverse engineered the RND 511 preamp: koo.corpus.cam.ac.uk/rnd-portico-schematic/
In it, the silk changes the way the output transformer is driven. (As an aside, the 511 seems very very very different than the classic 1073 & related topologies!)
Would love a comparison between this and the behringer Xenyx 1002B. Thanks!
dude...if you want a fully featured mixer, get one. the point of this thing is to have analog summing with easy recall. the more continuous controls you have in the path the more impossible recall becomes.
You're (clearly) tossing your pearls before a very broad spectrum of potential users, including musical artists who like to track, mix & master their work in order to offer tracks, and CDs, to their regional followers. Thus, if you make a graph line spanning the extremes from 'pure artist' at one end, to 'pure audio engineer' at the other, a good number of us fall in the middle, or leaning a bit more to the artist end of the spectrum. Those of us of an age, have worked with (or are at least familiar with) Rupert Neve's amazing toys, but have our ludite twinges, nathelees. At present, I'm planning a new home/project facility, during which I stumbled upon the 5060 online, and eventually, this page. That was, incidentally, a great (if brief) topological view of simple out board routing. The 'panning' issue not withstanding (and I'm not complaining here...), after viewing your vid, I'm temporarily left with more questions than those with which I arrived. Regardless, thanks for what you did provide! We await further observations of the yeas and nays you uncover w/ this wee Nevian beast... Cheers, Lachlan
Hi Christian,
Any chance you could try this out on your ITB mixes? I would love to know if this gave any advantage to the Spitfire sounds that you use?
Isn't going to be a pain to use all that outboard when you have re-writes and recalls and if you need to travel? Just asking? I love it though!
What are 'panpots'?
Nearest I’ve got to that is buying “stereo” effects processors that are stereo pass through but summed mono processing - which just sounds weird to my ears (like the effect has been dolloped on top of the original sound rather than becoming part of it). Most annoying and very “d’oh !”, but not as expensive in cash terms...! (Probably just as bad in terms of time cost though, which is in some ways worse)
Maybe the idea is that you feed the output from the computer system to one stereo channel, and that leaves you with three channels for three hardware workstations; or a deck into one channel; and a load of outboard inserts. And maybe all the mono stuff is just there if you want to something with this product that actually is not what it was created for, if you see what I mean.
In that case, it is far too expansive; could there not be a separate unit just for adding colour to a live mix?
Christian, what camera and lens are you using?
Hi Christian, what do you make of the new Mac Mini release?
Looks beautifully made, but to me, it looks like a huge work flow speed bump compared to the system you currently have with the Apogee Symphony. Recall is something that’s very hard to live without in 2018, because clients expect you to quickly make tweaks on work in progress. You can’t do that with non-programmable gear. Also, what’s the deal with the fan in that thing? Why would you want a fan making noise so close to your mix position? Looks like you’ve got lots of delivery trucks in the neighborhood. Pack it up and get it on one of those. ;)
love to hear a song done on this teapot.... do u have any songs u did :)
Agreed, thus my comment..
Do your paning in the modular then send it to the mixer that is what i do. Also more fun and alive to have lfo ect doing that
toketronic yes... it embraces the spirit of this!
This is a great review. Can you do one for Neve 8816 + 8804? Thanks :)
This is how I know what day of the week it is... LOL!
As others have said - i think it would have been very difficult to make this basic error about the purpose of the 5060 if you actually looked at their own "example setup" charts
They make very clear that, if you want analog submixing capability prior to summing, it should be paired w/ the 8059 (or some similar box)
rupertneve.com/static/media/2015/01/5059s-into-5060-config.jpg
The "Lone 8060" setup expects users to pairing directly w/ DAW, rather than hardware.
rupertneve.com/static/media/2015/01/5060-configuration-lone-5060.jpg
ceounicom yeah I clearly missed those (idiot) but I’m enjoying it... beautiful sound.
I hope you can get the electrics sorted in your house as painlessly as possible
I believe the people on the interwebs refer to what I'm doing now as "necroposting..." but I am wondering if you've made peace with your RND 5060? Is it serving you well, even if it didn't quite do what you were expecting?
And I’m necro-replying, it is controlling the level of my iPhone into my telly at work? Does that answer your question?
@@TheCrowHillCo HAH! :)
Dude, you buy all the exact same stuff I want. Are we twins separated at birth by 10 years?
I think the shifty character in the park outside may have stolen your pan pots when you weren't looking :)
Interesting stuff! - I hope you're being compensated by the council (I presume) for the studio downtime! Also - do you know CaVa studios in Glasgow? I'm going to be M&M'ing a score of mine with then early next year and would love to know if you've had any dealings with them or stories to tell. I know they're up there with Gorbal & their track record of clients is rather incredible.
Why would he be compensated by the Council for the rewiring of his privately owned house?!
With it being an old building, the council could be responsible for re-wiring as it may have been in unnaceptable condition from the date he purchased the house - (especailly if purchased directly off the council). If you build a house new yourself, the wiring is your responsibility, but depending who he bought this off and its condition at the time, he may be able to claim compensation - empowered by the fact it is also his workplace. I have no idea the details, I just know that it is a possibility if the facts line up correctly. If the house is condemmed, its likely that other similar houses in the area, and the mainframe also requiring updating which the council would have a job forcing local homeowners to foot the bill of.
You seriously think that Christian lives in a Council house (or ex-Council house)?! Councils otherwise have nothing to do with private house sales... that's why people have to pay surveyors (building/structural survey) before purchase to see if the property will likely fall down etc. and why non-traditional constructs mortgage issues. In the case of electrics, a qualified electrician can do an electrical installation assessment although electrics aren't often checked buy buyers. I suppose if he had had gotten the property checked by a qualified electrician when he purchased he could sue the electrician... but the Council/compensation comment just seemed and still seems bizarre to me.
You realise council's own castles right?! Christians house is a very large victorian (likely listed) house. Who do you think owned it after the victorians moved out and council's owned masses of land? The term Council House is extremely broad, and doesn't just refer to the dog kennels in city suburbs. Depending on how large scale the problem is, the council may compensate the cost in some way - electrics don't just stop at the house boundary - I'm also saying its possible the council won't pay a penny - as per my last comment - as without the facts, its entirely possible that the greater spotted fluorescent-pink moth-eating rhino could be paying for it all. Tired of this debate now so we can just agree to disagree.
" Who do you think owned it after the victorians moved out?" Umm... Edwardians! Christian actually states that it is a Georgian house in the video; but hey sure, let's agree to disagree on a strange statement that I simply questioned LOL.
What device are you using to record and playback? The Mixpre?
At the moment. It is not going to give me the power to record monitor and mix so it will be a hack with this device at first before I make my final decision on seriously building up this secondary "out of the box" facility.
It's mad how a lot of gear just doesn't do quite what we want it to do. I was recently frustrated when I found that I can't assign the pitch wheel on the native instruments s61 keyboard to control expression. It begs the question. Is there a PERFECT piece of gear? or are we doomed to have to keep buying more gear to do what our other gear doesn't do? Thanks for all the videos too. I stay at the back of Crow Hill so it's cool surprise to see this content filmed up there!
Tell me about it, I starred in a film when I was seven, I was paid a big fee but my parents didn't let me spend it until my 16th Birthday. So I bought a sampler (K250xp) off one of my Dad's mates (the composer Paul Ferris), it cost me every cent of this film fee + interest, and it wasn't until about 1 week into earning it that I realised you couldn't save the samples you had made on it without forking out for a massively expensive Apple Mac... Seemed to set me on a path to disappointment all the way back in 1988.
Normally the Modwheel does the expression I believe? That said, I have the s61 as well and I've been looking at assigning the pitch bend to do something else (volume or vibrato) seeing as it is just a touch pad but I am running into the same wall you are...
@@westhave Yeh. I wanted to use one wheel for dynamics and the other (pitch wheel) for expression. I even contacted NI about it and they told me that you can't assign the pitch wheel for anything else. Here is the email I got "Unfortunately the pitch wheel is only affected to pitch bend. I didn't make this clear, sorry about that. In the MIDI protocol the pitch bend is not assigned to a CC number. Modulation wheel is CC1. I hope you'll find another way to make the sounds you like. I assume you already tried with the touch strip." It's a shame that I don't like the touch strip! I hope you find something that will do the job. I still never got anything. Maybe one of those Behringer things that Christian used will do?
@@TheCrowHillCo Ah, that's a shame. You could have bought loads of Lego instead at that age. What film was it?
@@TheCrowHillCo I remember the first time I played a K250. It was the first time I thought, "whoa, this actually sounds like a piano." Of course, we did come home with that one, but my dad did buy a Korg DSS-1, and I could save my samples to floppy disks. ;)
But, wow was that floppy SLOOOOOOOOOW... So I wound up not actually saving samples very often. Or for that matter, loading. I'd try to get as much out of one sound bank as I could.
I, fucking, love, the scenery in your videos. It's perfect.
was the second video released?
And why not getting an API The Box 2 instead of Rupert Neve 5060 Mixer?
The API is literally double the price.
Strangely, I'm starting to understand the need for DAW-less composing less and less. I mean, just based on the amount of equipment you seem to need, it appears so convoluted at times. Cumbersome. Wouldn't composing in this way end up really slowing you down? Or is that part of the reason for doing it in the first place? (A slower process means you make choices differently) Though if that really is the primary driving force behind going DAW-less, it seems an awefully expensive way to change habits when discipline gives you direct access to the brain that created those habits in the first place.
I started the move to hardware a couple of years ago but still use a DAW to record and occasionally add effects. I could replace the computer with a mixer and multitrack recorder (or a unit that does both) but for any detailed editing I'd still need to go back to the computer. So it just made more sense to me to stay there.
I guess there is an allure to having a hardware recorder where you can just power it on and press record. No fuss, no updates, no notifications (Apple, I don't want Mojave. Stop nagging).
For me it is not about the kit it is about how it changes the way we work. If everyone is using the same materials, the same tools and the same method of working, then the same fixtures, fittings and paints, everything starts to start to become a bit samey. I am challenging myself to think different and hopefully will make different music as a consequence.
I have this one thing I do to prevent samey-ness: I don't use a keyboard as input device. I manually draw my notes with a mouse. This makes my work more polyphonic, easier to write counterpoint, easier to write in styles you wouldn't be able to play on any instrument, trains fewer motoric habits. The list of benefits goes on. It's a fairly cheap way of freeing my mind. Though I still do sit behind the same screen every day. And I can certainly see the benefit of moving between different machines and turning different nobs and switches all over the room.
I'd agree whole-heartedly with that comment. Up until last year I'd never owned a sample library. I bought NI Komplete Ultimate 11 and their Symphony Series. I was seriously contemplating buying 'Spitfire Everything'...I think it was about £13K, but I was worried that if I did, I'd end up using all those lovely sounds and not stretch myself |(both musically -harmony /melody /rhythm and technically -producing /sampling /recording /editing etc). It's funny though when I think back to my student days and experimentation with musique concrete with three or four 1/4" tape machines. We now have the ability to mangle /warp / flip / tune audio in so many ways how in the hell did we end up with most music these days being so insipid (think generic 'Lord Of The Rings' type orchestral film-music or the '4-chord' song in pop music?)
@@attabut1963 I think we largely ended up with that because directors are asking for that, and only that.
You went through everything: a website or specifications sheet would give me, but the one thing you did not review is the sound! That's all we care about in any reviews. Since you have the hardware before we do and before we buy, we want to hear it, every other effort to review is just noise to blah... You underestimate your viewers. The vitality of a review is in its utility and in audio, that's its sound. Everything else falls away. Sweetwater was the only site that did that, but it was way too short. I am thankful, but your effort fell short of a vital attribute.
Does seem bizarre not to have a pan, even the first basic 4 track tape machines I recorded on 25 years ago had them. I understand why you missed it because I'd assume any mixer would have them. Unless it was built for another specific purpose that doesn't require them?
it also cost £8,000!!!
Jim Sanger didn’t cost ME that! But I’m keeping it because I’m happy with work around and it is a monster!
Is this also an audio interface? or just a controller?
No, it isn't an audio interface which should have been included for the price...
07:30 - when all else fails, RTFM...
I think you're kind of, sort of, supposed to think of this as a summing insert. You simply want to route your sound through this device so as to lay on that Neve color. I repeat: "That Neve Color". And all those pre-amps and other electronic thing-a-ma-bobs inside that constitute that Neve sound, imo, is worth $8000... well, new anyway, I guess.. and you got it for less? Score!! Use it for awhile and then return to your previous method (without the device) and I think you'll be lofting your head with a bit of a "Ahh Ha!!", and the thought: "I'm so glad I didn't sell it off.." I do speak with a shade of experience with that device. Not as an operator, but as an observer of how it was used on one of my mixes. And, since I don't have one here at home, I now think all my new work without that device sounds thin... oh dear... what's a boy to do?
Scott McDavid I’m putting it to work this weekend!
@@TheCrowHillCo Cool! Lets us know what you think!
Dear Sir, you are buying an equipment with 4 faders, and you become upset, when you can 't find pan pots... So if the company would put the pan pots, you would have only 4... The engineers who produced this big sounding summing mixer, I think they had the philosophy of being well prepared before sending the tracks to this unit and the user could set specialy the dynamic and sound quality of Neve, tocuhing 4 faders.
Why would you spend 8k on something that just isn't quite it... If you go, go all the way IMO
See my answer above, I researched extensively but simply presumed a mixing desk would have pan pots right?! It is an embarrassing admission hence the "quite accurate" re-enactment of this howling revelation.
@@TheCrowHillCo Haha could have been me, I'm going to be even more careful with presuming from now on: "Surely the car comes with wheels, right?" Actually I've been in a similar situation, but after finding out the particular disappointment I decided to send it back. Are you not able to do so, or is it acceptable to you to get an "almost it" product with such a pricetag?
Btw love the channel, been watching since the very first, keep it up mr.Henson!
@@BerendSalverda I'm not sure, but has Neve ever put out anything that wasn't "quite it"?
Berend Salverda I know! Cars ARE like that, my wife bought a new car recently and it cost 10k more than advertised because we wanted extras like... a steering wheel and column.
It’s got no fucking pan pots! Lol I’ll buy the 5059
"only" $8k! Calls it "rudimentary", Only 1 headphone jack. This review hardly seems positive to my naive mind...
I bought two of these babies. It is a stunning sound within the reach of homestudio owners.
My 11-years old boy, doesn't like the sound of his.- Strange thing.
Henrik H since he doesn’t like it, would you consider selling it?
You bought your 11 year old boy one of these? Who are you daddy warbucks?
"its got no fucking pan pots" i think the engineers got lazy
£???
channel strip plugin for panning . . . .
Does it matter? On Christian's last vid about the move to Spitfire 3.0 HQ, he asked Paul 'How many full-timer's do we now have?' Paul answered 'around 55-60'. I did the maths based on a meagre salary of £2000 per month per employee (a pittance to survive in London these days). It worked out at an annual salary bill I think of £1.2M....take rent and other business overheads....you must be talking at least of £2M, I can only think turnover this year must be heading towards £15-25M (find out from Companies House if you can be arsed). I can only think they're really tapping into educational budgets around the world as there can't be that many budding film composers able to stump up £10K a year on samples.....can there?
I take my hat off to both of them on the rise of Spitfire.......no doubt a fair modicum of talent, vision and the balls to do it.
This purchase? Mere pennies that can be written off in four years anyhow.
That said........I'm not sure these days how important 'quality' (as in sonics) is. I think gear that offers creativity through its tactile nature / ergonomics, whether it be hardware of software is much more important to me personally than 'quality' . It has to be of sufficient quality 'no hum, low noise etc) but most of that is easily achieved these days.......and even digital sounds good these days. Anybody want to buy a Fostex G24S with brand new heads?
I forgot to add...just had a friend's daughter staying with us for the weekend. She's over here from New Zealand studying music and drama in London. She's never heard of 'Inside Number NIne' so we binge watched 5 or 6 episodes including my favourites ('12 Days of Christine', 'To have and to hold', 'Bernie Clifton's Dressing Room', 'Once removed') and the live show. I think the spotting in these episodes is top drawer as is the music.You must be immensely proud to have them on your show-reel.
Just so you know you wouldn’t get very far on 2k pcm in London do our wage bill is MUCH bigger than that!!!
My point exactly......@@TheCrowHillCo
@@attabut1963 Rent to own is the solution for Spitfire Audio sample libraries, I bought some, but I wouldn't anymore. My music gear budget is not endless, and they are good and cheaper sample librairies out there nowadays. I wrote to Spitfire Audio, seems like they just don't care. So I will pass from now.
@@stephanehoreczko Spitfire has been repackaging some of their older samples in their new bespoke plug-in format at quite reasonable prices. If you haven't checked them out in a while, they're worth giving another shot.
As I watched this I was thinking of another video I had viewed a few months back about an engineer who made the same purchasing oversight. I’m not sure he was as calm about it if memory serves. I checked in YT recommendations after watching and sure enough, there is Brad Wood’s video right near the top. I find it incredible a company like Neve can put something out into the market with such an obviously glaring omission in it’s signal chain. I guess pigs must really be able to fly after all.
9:09
Sorry dude. Couldn't make it past 0:48.
Billy Valentine did you need a pee?
For 8k you would get 4 stereo channels of this: www.zaehl.com/products/am1-mixing-console. No summing, but pan, insert, send, superb eq and fully expandable...
Faders aside, you can accomplish the same thing with quality gear for a couple grand. I can think of so much better gear purchases for $8k too.
What gear can you accomplish the same sound for a couple grand as the neve center piece?
@@barneyrubble8255 AMS Neve makes a summing mixer with faders for $4,500
@@badmonkeymusicproductions3569 Found this one here. I'll have to have a listen if there's any demos on youtube. AMS Neve 8816 Summing Mixer. But people are saying the Neve Centerpiece sounds better than the satellite which is around the same price as the AMS NEVE. So likely for that price the centre piece does sound better. Or of course why would anyone pay that much for a summing mixer, if it doesn't sound better than ones half the price tag.
@@barneyrubble8255 So... if you after faders, and that fits your hybrid workflow. I couldn't find a reason for it in mine, and I wasn't willing to make an investment on faders if there wasn't a preamp involved. With that said, I will throw out this idea: look into the Fat Bustard by Thermoinic, CAPI summing mixer (with iron on every input), or just cheap out with good results with a Rolls Music Folcrom and pick your "flavor" of preamp to sum into. My thought is that if you are summing you want there to be a difference in sound, and those 3 options are highly regarded to give your mix personality, and some attitude.
@@barneyrubble8255 Also, the Burl Vancouver summing mixer is good, so I've heard
One word - Bloodrush
I do not understand. your discomfort ....? did you understand anything about the summing mixer? I use shadow hills equinox and there is no PAN !! it's not a sound console! it's a summing mixer. you have 8 mono input for ... kick bass, vocal ... and the rest of the input in stereo 90% of summing mixer is like that? I think he's doing your duty gentleman .... You have not understood anything about the product. go see 2bus dangerous music one of the best summing without PAN ....
Raphael Bernatchez i think as I may not have made clear here, that I already own the Neve 8816 summing mixer which DOES have pan so this combined with every mixer I’ve ever worked on from my Tascam Porta One to my O2R to an Allen and Heath, Cadacs, Neves, SSLs and all the other crap I’ve owned over the years has had pan as a very basic function of mixing. So when looking at the functionality of the centre piece, I didn’t notice its absence, I also had it recommended to me by my supplier so all of these factors contributed to a rather awkward moment where I went “hang on” as recreated here.
@@TheCrowHillCo excuse me I did not want to disrespect you. My English is not very good and my words can be interpreted as a lack of respect. I think the Neve is a really complete desk when watching the competitors. My equinox shadow hills do not arrive at that, for $ 5000.00 US.
@@TheCrowHillCo and also I like yours youtube channel and your company
Raphael Bernatchez I didn’t see your comment as disrespect at all, I just wanted to explain my mistake better because it was a stupid mistake!
Interesting piece of kit, but pricey. For the money you will get neve sound and neve quality (many, many, many years of service), but still overpriced.
Essentially its a mixer, daw controller, interface , monitor controller. All might be separate pieces, each costing less, but require setup, fiddling , your time basically.
My list is:
1. Mixer - spirit folio sx. I find that sound of spirit's preamps and eqs barks nicely. Good for agreasive dance music or rock, where sound on/off sounds dominate. Not that good for ppp strings (noise floor).
2. Interface. Pick whatever you like, or better the best you can afford. Good pieces will last you a lifetime, but cost accordingly. Apollo or UAD for lifetime. Scarlett or behringer for lowenders and upgrade in couple years.
3. Daw controller.
Toxic topic. Bcf2000 or bcr 2000 as cheapest motorized faders/rotaries.
I suggest using ableton push/2. I know its limited to ableton, but I really think its worth it. The only piece of hw/sw integration era that left me wanting to get back to it and fiddle some more.
4. Monitor controller.
Mackie big knob is a classic. Behringer control2 is cheaper knockoff. Presonus monitor station is alternative.
Again, if all the elements are up to standart, you buy mogami cabling, you buy furniture/racks to house everything you're easily 5-6k in.
In the end it might make sense to use neve 5060 if it fits your studio and you use like 95% of features. If you're working everyday, buying lowend stuff is reality, but you keep repairing stuff over and over and over... low end is not robust for pro use, unfortunately.
Soo it no a sound card
hahahahaha)
The F word...really?
The F word...really?
You apparently have never watched Christian's blog before...
Omg, so funny, £8k and no f**ing pan pots. Genius. I would honestly have assumed they had them too, don't beat yourself up about it.