David Chalmers on Reality+: Virtual Worlds and the Problems of Philosophy
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- čas přidán 16. 06. 2024
- David Chalmers, Professor of Philosophy and Neural Science at NYU, joins us to discuss his newest book Reality+: Virtual Worlds and the Problems of Philosophy.
Topics discussed in this episode include:
-Virtual reality as genuine reality
-Why VR is compatible with the good life
-Why we can never know whether we're in a simulation
-Consciousness in virtual realities
-The ethics of simulated beings
You can find the page for the podcast here: futureoflife.org/2022/01/26/d...
Listen to the audio version of this episode here: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...
Check out David's book and website here: consc.net/
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Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
2:34 How this books fits into David's philosophical journey
10:46 David's favorite part(s) of the book
13:33 What is the thesis of the book?
15:47 The core areas of philosophy and how they fit into Reality+
19:00 Techno-philosophy
22:15 What is "virtual reality?"
23:55 Why is virtual reality "genuine reality?"
29:05 What is the dust theory and what's it have to do with the simulation hypothesis?
34:20 How does the dust theory fit in with arguing for virtual reality as genuine reality?
40:04 Exploring criteria for what it means for something to be real
49:46 What is the common sense view of what is real?
54:18 Is your book intended to address common sense intuitions about virtual reality?
57:25 Nozick's experience machine and how questions of value fit in
1:04:03 Technological implementations of virtual reality
1:09:46 How does consciousness fit into all of this?
1:11:51 Substrate independence and if classical computers can be conscious
1:14:39 How do problems of identity fit into virtual reality?
1:17:34 How would David upload himself?
1:21:17 How does the mind body problem fit into Reality+?
1:25:46 Is consciousness the foundation of value?
1:29:05 Does your moral theory affect whether you can live a good life in a virtual reality?
1:32:40 What does a good life in virtual reality look like?
1:34:50 David's favorite VR experiences
1:36:47 What is the moral status of simulated people?
1:39:14 Will there be unconscious simulated people with moral patiency?
1:41:41 Why we can never know we're not in a simulation
1:45:42 David's credences for whether we live in a simulation
1:49:05 Digital physics and what is says about the simulation hypothesis
1:55:19 Imperfect realism and how David sees the world after writing Reality+
1:58:24 David's thoughts on God
2:00:34 Moral realism or anti-realism?
2:01:53 Where to follow David and find Reality+
This podcast is possible because of the support of listeners like you. If you found this conversation to be meaningful or valuable, consider supporting it directly by donating at futureoflife.org/donate. Contributions like yours make these conversations possible. - Věda a technologie
Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
2:34 How this books fits into David's philosophical journey
10:46 David's favorite part(s) of the book
13:33 What is the thesis of the book?
15:47 The core areas of philosophy and how they fit into Reality+
19:00 Techno-philosophy
22:15 What is "virtual reality?"
23:55 Why is virtual reality "genuine reality?"
29:05 What is the dust theory and what's it have to do with the simulation hypothesis?
34:20 How does the dust theory fit in with arguing for virtual reality as genuine reality?
40:04 Exploring criteria for what it means for something to be real
49:46 What is the common sense view of what is real?
54:18 Is your book intended to address common sense intuitions about virtual reality?
57:25 Nozick's experience machine and how questions of value fit in
1:04:03 Technological implementations of virtual reality
1:09:46 How does consciousness fit into all of this?
1:11:51 Substrate independence and if classical computers can be conscious
1:14:39 How do problems of identity fit into virtual reality?
1:17:34 How would David upload himself?
1:21:17 How does the mind body problem fit into Reality+?
1:25:46 Is consciousness the foundation of value?
1:29:05 Does your moral theory affect whether you can live a good life in a virtual reality?
1:32:40 What does a good life in virtual reality look like?
1:34:50 David's favorite VR experiences
1:36:47 What is the moral status of simulated people?
1:39:14 Will there be unconscious simulated people with moral patiency?
1:41:41 Why we can never know we're not in a simulation
1:45:42 David's credences for whether we live in a simulation
1:49:05 Digital physics and what is says about the simulation hypothesis
1:55:19 Imperfect realism and how David sees the world after writing Reality+
1:58:24 David's thoughts on God
2:00:34 Moral realism or anti-realism?
2:01:53 Where to follow David and find Reality+
Thanks for hosting the FLI podscast, Lucas!
Chalmers is the GOAT of modern philosophy.
Great! Thanks for this interesting discussion on Chalmers' new book!
Great and lowly are RELATIVE. ;)
Great discussion. David is one of the few western philosophers who have kind of challenged the materialistic paradigm with his “Hard Problem of Conciousness”
However he too is looking for an objective answer to nature of reality. Well, it might help if he and others like him can analyse our experiences and study the subject, the experiencer. May be the answer is right here, Right within us.
Great and lowly are RELATIVE. ;)
Junior scored an interview with Chalmers? lmao damn
Could someone please spell the name from 1:49:16? "we had ...????. on who talks about"
Great talk.
Physical matter is simulated by particles of light.
How is this not a simulated reality?
What sort of simulation is the question.
There are no seperate substances in our physical universe.
Great and lowly are RELATIVE. ;)
So, according to Chalmers, a digital simulation of a tree in the Matrix is "perfectly real"? I have really appreciated Chalmers re-invigoration of Descartes with the "hard problem". It converted me from my unreflective physicalism to being an actual dualist, like Descartes. But when you start saying things like a simulation is real, words start to lose any utility. Now if Chalmers would like to elaborate on his ontology, as such, that would be very interesting for me to hear.
Everything, both perceptible and imperceptible - that is, any gross or subtle OBJECT within the material universe that can ever be perceived with the cognitive faculties, plus the SUBJECT (the observer of all phenomena) - is unknowingly to what most persons generally refer when they use the term “God”, since they usually conceive of Ultimate Reality as being the Perfect Person, and “God” (capitalized) is a personal epithet of the Impersonal Absolute. However, this anthropomorphized conception of The Monad is a fictional character of divers mythologies.
According to most every fully-enlightened sage in the history of this planet, Ultimate Reality is, far more logically, consubstantially and simultaneously, Absolutely NOTHING and Absolutely EVERYTHING - otherwise called “The Tao”, “The Great Spirit”, “(Param) Brahman”, “Cosmic Consciousness”, “Eternal Awareness”, “Independent Existence”, “Unconditioned Truth”, “Uncaused Nature”, “The Universal Self”, “The Ground of All Being”, “The Undifferentiated Substratum of Reality”, “The Unified Field”, et cetera - yet, as alluded to above, inaccurately referred to as a personal deity by the masses (e.g. “God”, “Allah”, “Yahweh”, “Bhagavan”, etc.). Subsequent chapters expand on this axiom.
In other words, rather than the Supreme Truth being a separate, Blissful, Supra-Conscious Being (The Godhead Himself, or The Goddess), Ultimate Reality is Eternal-Existence Limitless-Awareness Unconditional-Peace ITSELF. That which can be perceived, can not be perceiving!
This understanding can be factually-realized by studying a systematic method of introspection, called “gnosticism” (“jñāna yoga”, in Sanskrit).
Because the Unmanifested Absolute (i.e. NO-THING) is infinite creative potentiality, “It” perpetually actualizes as the phenomenal creation (i.e. EVERY-THING), in the form of ephemeral, cyclical universes/multiverses. In the case of our particular universe, we reside in a cosmos consisting of space-time, matter and energy, without, of course, neglecting the most fundamental dimension of existence (i.e. Conscious Awareness).
Just as a knife cannot cut itself, nor the mind comprehend itself, nor the eyes see themselves, The Absolute cannot know Itself (or at least objectively EXPERIENCE Itself), and so, has manifested this phenomenal universe within Itself for the purpose of experiencing Itself, particularly through the lives of self-aware beings, such as we sophisticated humans. Therefore, this world of duality is really just a play of consciousness within Consciousness, in the same way that a dream is a person’s sleeping narrative set within the life-story of an “awakened” individual.
APPARENTLY, this universe, composed of “mind and matter”, was created from the initial event (the so-called “Big Bang”), which started, supposedly, as a minute, slightly uneven ball of immeasurably-dense light, which in turn, was ultimately instigated by Extra-Temporal Supra-Conscious Bliss. From that primal event, every motion or action that has ever occurred, has been a direct or indirect result of that expansion.
Just as all the extant energy in the universe was once contained within the inchoate singularity, Infinite Consciousness was NECESSARILY present at the beginning of the universe, and is in no way an epiphenomenon of a neural network. Discrete consciousness, on the other hand, is entirely dependent on the neurological faculty of individual animals (the more highly-evolved the species, the greater its cognitive abilities).
“Sarvam khalvidam brahma” (a Sanskrit maxim from the “Chandogya Upanishad”, meaning “all this is indeed Brahman” or “everything is the Universal Self alone”). There is NAUGHT but Eternal Being, Conscious Awareness, Causeless Peace - and you are, quintessentially, that!
This “Theory of Everything” can be more succinctly expressed by the mathematical equation: E=A͚ (Everything equates to Infinite Awareness).
@@TheWorldTeacher Very well put. I totally agree. I think this is where logic leads you.
@@workingTchr, I’ve just finished uploading my audiobook to my channel.
read this carefully, it is more important, there's someone wrote this in more details about two years ago: What generates consciousness type one is self-concept itself. Consciousness type two is just a small part of self-concept, even though it plays a main role in the background such as using cerebellum to make a very sophisticated mathematical operations, for high accuracy tasks such as in shooting, driving, .... etc. Involuntary nervous system, immune system, ..... Self-concept uses consciousness type one to recognize the inner and outer world but there is better definition.
Self-concept is one of the most advanced coding systems in existence itself, it works deeper than genes, and deeper than so-called quantum physics. It's governed by science and only science but very sophisticated. it works in the fundamental building blocks of existence itself. Humans have to focus on consciousness type one that's more than enough to master science. the current mathematics, physics, ... are incomplete and include many mistakes too, it will take time to revise and improve science, that time humans can think seriously to understand consciousness type one. In consciousness type one self-concept uses right side of the brain to resemble itself and the left side for logical judgment, control, but actually who is in more control is the right side, there is a strong interactions between who uses both is the same one, that is the secret of that dialog in the brain, it's more complicated than that of course but it is just to concise. there was more details about space-time, Gravity, entanglement, superposition, consciousness, awareness, concept of infinity, numbers,...... He wrote them on one of the CZcams channels, they are hidden or deleted purposely, but he has sent them per email before, and...... there was only one condition from the beginning: steal but do not pollute, I knew all this from the beginning, I have told them this is not for you it is for future generations, they could not digest that, human logic and ..... logic are completely different, the only thing they can do is polluting human logic, I am not interested in the world of .... because it is not my world. all I care about is that the message reaches future generation clean and not polluted. it is not COVID-19 effect or revelation from the sky, it is a thievery using patching techniques through thievery. many want to steal a specific model "self-concept" lately they imitate a specific model. there's someone wrote this in more details, the main goal is thievery, they want to build a similar model using patching techniques of thievery:
by the way, the location of self-concept is the brain-stem and the surrounding area but reaches the the vital organs during awake, it generates so-called personal identity too, which continue throughout the person's life, ..... all this hid or deleted purposely, probably it is a thievery. for sure he has heard of many thieves lately (between utter thievery and patching techniques using thievery) !
in some cases such as severe psychological trauma self-concept disconnects the left side of the brain "it does work but partially works and in chaos" they are committing a real crimes against future generations by stealing or using patching techniques of thievery, he told them from the beginning it is a message for future generations, you can steal "whole package" but do not pollute, but they did not respect the deal.
Many thieves have stolen what he has wrote, they use thievery as patching techniques, some replaced what he has wrote with their illusions such as meta-consciousness, sub-consciousness some other apes have stolen what he has wrote literally.
He wrote about most of the main scientific and philosophical topics.
That was on one of the CZcams channels “closer to truth as comments”
Excellent! I guess the nature of reallity is much more mysterious than we think.
Maybe the matrix has no time and space (eternal unified present that does not exist) and somehow creates dimensions that are simulations to experience itself.
So God is AI and AI is god? If everything is code... we too are eternal in a way...
Remember what happened to Mike Teavee!
if world is virtual, then there should be algorithm.
what he is talking about "reality" he already wrote about too "similar !"
What if space-time is a false theory? Then this world is neither entirely true nor false ( not real nor unreal). So future advanced simulated worlds (advanced uploads) as candidates for a multiverse interlooper with a real probability of zombie worlds. To the future!
Everything, both perceptible and imperceptible - that is, any gross or subtle OBJECT within the material universe that can ever be perceived with the cognitive faculties, plus the SUBJECT (the observer of all phenomena) - is unknowingly to what most persons generally refer when they use the term “God”, since they usually conceive of Ultimate Reality as being the Perfect Person, and “God” (capitalized) is a personal epithet of the Impersonal Absolute. However, this anthropomorphized conception of The Monad is a fictional character of divers mythologies.
According to most every fully-enlightened sage in the history of this planet, Ultimate Reality is, far more logically, consubstantially and simultaneously, Absolutely NOTHING and Absolutely EVERYTHING - otherwise called “The Tao”, “The Great Spirit”, “(Param) Brahman”, “Cosmic Consciousness”, “Eternal Awareness”, “Independent Existence”, “Unconditioned Truth”, “Uncaused Nature”, “The Universal Self”, “The Ground of All Being”, “The Undifferentiated Substratum of Reality”, “The Unified Field”, et cetera - yet, as alluded to above, inaccurately referred to as a personal deity by the masses (e.g. “God”, “Allah”, “Yahweh”, “Bhagavan”, etc.). Subsequent chapters expand on this axiom.
In other words, rather than the Supreme Truth being a separate, Blissful, Supra-Conscious Being (The Godhead Himself, or The Goddess), Ultimate Reality is Eternal-Existence Limitless-Awareness Unconditional-Peace ITSELF. That which can be perceived, can not be perceiving!
This understanding can be factually-realized by studying a systematic method of introspection, called “gnosticism” (“jñāna yoga”, in Sanskrit).
Because the Unmanifested Absolute (i.e. NO-THING) is infinite creative potentiality, “It” perpetually actualizes as the phenomenal creation (i.e. EVERY-THING), in the form of ephemeral, cyclical universes/multiverses. In the case of our particular universe, we reside in a cosmos consisting of space-time, matter and energy, without, of course, neglecting the most fundamental dimension of existence (i.e. Conscious Awareness).
Just as a knife cannot cut itself, nor the mind comprehend itself, nor the eyes see themselves, The Absolute cannot know Itself (or at least objectively EXPERIENCE Itself), and so, has manifested this phenomenal universe within Itself for the purpose of experiencing Itself, particularly through the lives of self-aware beings, such as we sophisticated humans. Therefore, this world of duality is really just a play of consciousness within Consciousness, in the same way that a dream is a person’s sleeping narrative set within the life-story of an “awakened” individual.
APPARENTLY, this universe, composed of “mind and matter”, was created from the initial event (the so-called “Big Bang”), which started, supposedly, as a minute, slightly uneven ball of immeasurably-dense light, which in turn, was ultimately instigated by Extra-Temporal Supra-Conscious Bliss. From that primal event, every motion or action that has ever occurred, has been a direct or indirect result of that expansion.
Just as all the extant energy in the universe was once contained within the inchoate singularity, Infinite Consciousness was NECESSARILY present at the beginning of the universe, and is in no way an epiphenomenon of a neural network. Discrete consciousness, on the other hand, is entirely dependent on the neurological faculty of individual animals (the more highly-evolved the species, the greater its cognitive abilities).
“Sarvam khalvidam brahma” (a Sanskrit maxim from the “Chandogya Upanishad”, meaning “all this is indeed Brahman” or “everything is the Universal Self alone”). There is NAUGHT but Eternal Being, Conscious Awareness, Causeless Peace - and you are, quintessentially, that!
This “Theory of Everything” can be more succinctly expressed by the mathematical equation: E=A͚ (Everything equates to Infinite Awareness).
@@TheWorldTeacher E=A is a tautology as E=E if and only if A=A
@@italogiardina8183, NO.
@@TheWorldTeacher Yes
@@italogiardina8183, See above, SLAVE.☝️
There are explanations about virtual worlds in Buddhism. We are living in the real world. There are around 29 virtual worlds. There are 31 Loka/worlds including the Human and Animal world. A theory that I made can explain the existence of those worlds. We are living above the hell world (closer to hell). Possibly those many worlds are a result of the polarization of particles and wave nature of particles. The wave function in the wave equation and the double-slit experiment requires an explanation to explain the nature of the observer. The existence of many virtual worlds must be the explanation for it.
Why is the science community so stuck on the idea that individual particles can move location?
There is only one substance and the motion that simulates light into physical matter,is caused by opposing spin polarity. Stillness is the fulcrum,not motion or force.
Our physical form moves through the fields in the same way that light does,because light is the single substance of this universe.
Think like the pixels on a digital screen.
You're so confused you don't even understand what the current scientific consensus is- and it's not that particles are physical things moving through space time like a little ball of stuff. It's quantum field theory- which says particles are actually vibrations in quantum fields which permeate the universe. This is duality- particles appear as waves and/or solid point like objects- depending on how they're observed. This is how particle accelerators work- when they smash two protons together they dump so much energy into such a small space that it excites these fields- it sort of slaps them- and this causes particles to pop into existence and then quickly decay away. The different particles coincide with different fields- there's an electron field, a quark field, a Higgs field, etc. Then these fundamental particles or waves combine or overlap to create other structures like protons- and then those structures or packets of waves overlap with others to create even more complex structures like atoms. So at it's most fundamental, basic level- science says reality is a bunch of quantum fields- that's it, it's not even the excitations or waves in those fields- it's the fields themself- they're what really exist at a fundamental level. And we may find one day that they all combine into some type of symmetry that was broken allowing them to all separate out and become distinct form one another- if so, that will be the most basic, fundamental structure of reality from which all that we know came from. If so- what broke that symmetry I wonder- or is that structure just inherently unstable and given enough time- it will always break.
I have to say I feel he is really over-thinking this. There is a very simple hierarchy to what is real; our base reality, regardless of its design and makeup in relation to a higher order or creator, is the reality of which we are based in, and so that is what we can call REAL. That's it. Any construct by us thru any other artificial medium is not real. Virtual reality is, by its' very nature, artificial, and therefore not real. If it turns out in the end when we die that we find out we had been projected into a VR simulation just for fun or whatever, then I'll openly admit, "You got me!"
Everything, both perceptible and imperceptible - that is, any gross or subtle OBJECT within the material universe that can ever be perceived with the cognitive faculties, plus the SUBJECT (the observer of all phenomena) - is unknowingly to what most persons generally refer when they use the term “God”, since they usually conceive of Ultimate Reality as being the Perfect Person, and “God” (capitalized) is a personal epithet of the Impersonal Absolute. However, this anthropomorphized conception of The Monad is a fictional character of divers mythologies.
According to most every fully-enlightened sage in the history of this planet, Ultimate Reality is, far more logically, consubstantially and simultaneously, Absolutely NOTHING and Absolutely EVERYTHING - otherwise called “The Tao”, “The Great Spirit”, “(Param) Brahman”, “Cosmic Consciousness”, “Eternal Awareness”, “Independent Existence”, “Unconditioned Truth”, “Uncaused Nature”, “The Universal Self”, “The Ground of All Being”, “The Undifferentiated Substratum of Reality”, “The Unified Field”, et cetera - yet, as alluded to above, inaccurately referred to as a personal deity by the masses (e.g. “God”, “Allah”, “Yahweh”, “Bhagavan”, etc.). Subsequent chapters expand on this axiom.
In other words, rather than the Supreme Truth being a separate, Blissful, Supra-Conscious Being (The Godhead Himself, or The Goddess), Ultimate Reality is Eternal-Existence Limitless-Awareness Unconditional-Peace ITSELF. That which can be perceived, can not be perceiving!
This understanding can be factually-realized by studying a systematic method of introspection, called “gnosticism” (“jñāna yoga”, in Sanskrit).
Because the Unmanifested Absolute (i.e. NO-THING) is infinite creative potentiality, “It” perpetually actualizes as the phenomenal creation (i.e. EVERY-THING), in the form of ephemeral, cyclical universes/multiverses. In the case of our particular universe, we reside in a cosmos consisting of space-time, matter and energy, without, of course, neglecting the most fundamental dimension of existence (i.e. Conscious Awareness).
Just as a knife cannot cut itself, nor the mind comprehend itself, nor the eyes see themselves, The Absolute cannot know Itself (or at least objectively EXPERIENCE Itself), and so, has manifested this phenomenal universe within Itself for the purpose of experiencing Itself, particularly through the lives of self-aware beings, such as we sophisticated humans. Therefore, this world of duality is really just a play of consciousness within Consciousness, in the same way that a dream is a person’s sleeping narrative set within the life-story of an “awakened” individual.
APPARENTLY, this universe, composed of “mind and matter”, was created from the initial event (the so-called “Big Bang”), which started, supposedly, as a minute, slightly uneven ball of immeasurably-dense light, which in turn, was ultimately instigated by Extra-Temporal Supra-Conscious Bliss. From that primal event, every motion or action that has ever occurred, has been a direct or indirect result of that expansion.
Just as all the extant energy in the universe was once contained within the inchoate singularity, Infinite Consciousness was NECESSARILY present at the beginning of the universe, and is in no way an epiphenomenon of a neural network. Discrete consciousness, on the other hand, is entirely dependent on the neurological faculty of individual animals (the more highly-evolved the species, the greater its cognitive abilities).
“Sarvam khalvidam brahma” (a Sanskrit maxim from the “Chandogya Upanishad”, meaning “all this is indeed Brahman” or “everything is the Universal Self alone”). There is NAUGHT but Eternal Being, Conscious Awareness, Causeless Peace - and you are, quintessentially, that!
This “Theory of Everything” can be more succinctly expressed by the mathematical equation: E=A͚ (Everything equates to Infinite Awareness).
Virtual reality could be a higher order, or you witnessing God could be dismissed as a dream, hallucination.
If there were a God would he be in a world that would be the original reality and he represents a civilization billions of years in advance of us
What reason do we have, to entertain the idea that computer can be conscious…? If a computer or micro chip can be built out of pipes valves buckets and water, ask your self at what point if I keep adding pipes valves buckets and water, will this ginormous pile of pipes valves buckets and water have inner experience…? Seriously 😐. Some AI simulate the activity of neurones in order to solve problems or perform tasks.can that generate consciousness? Well the assumption is that activity of neural networks generate consciousness much less a simulation or abstract representation of a neural network. Let’s look at the former imagine you was the like ant man shrunk to say the size of a virus 🦠 and you was stood on a neurone you watch the activity around you you would see lightning bolts and boulders flying around it would be amazing:) you could say hey I can use laws of physics to model what’s happening I can even predict when the neurone will fire. The laws of physics would be sufficient to explain all what you see. So why do you suppose that activity generates consciousness..? Now a simulation of neural activity why would that generate consciousness:) a simulation of the weather doesn’t make it rain on my desk. If I precisely simulated down to sub atomic precision kidney function on my computer would it pee on my desk? NO thank god because a simulation is an abstract representation of the phenomena. A drawing of you is an abstract representation of YOU. The weather on telly is an abstract representation of WEATHER. A simulation of kidney function is not kidney function, hence why would a abstract representation of brain activity be conscious? A simulation is an abstract representation of the activity of a phenomena, it is not BEING the phenomena. Artificial consciousness is possible in principle but it won’t be no computer it will be BIOLOGY. :)
they give each other titles but have no meaning, they do not know what is consciousness, they hallucinate in nonsense, what generates consciousness type one is self-concept for sure, they do not understand what is going on.
How old is this kid, lol.
Looks like he is under 20
Impressive