Minor Illusion Guide for D&D 5e
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- čas přidán 25. 02. 2019
- Let's discuss the Minor Illusion cantrip. How do you use it in combat? What levels is it good at? Let's do some scenarios on a battlemap to illustrate.
For a transcript of this video, follow this link (Thanks to Adurnis): docs.google.com/document/d/1I...
I would like to credit Helzod's excellent post on illusion for some ideas I used in this video. His post covers several illusion spells, including Minor Illusion. Here's a link: www.enworld.org/forum/showthre... - Krátké a kreslené filmy
Use Minor Illusion to create a topographical map, or a 3D rendering of the levels of a dungeon explored so far.
It's all fun & games until the DM uses the same trick against you.
@@Reoh0z Uhhh… In general that is a correct and valid response but in this case… Are you worried about the DM out cartography-ing you? No judgement just… interesting thing to worry about.
@@OverkillDM The DM's ethereal avatar being summoned and creating an incorrect map of the dungeon using Minor Illusion so they get lost. That's something I often worry about.
The map comes from your mind, so the map will look like how your character remembers it.
@@schwarzerritter5724 I can imagine in 3D. 😊
We use this primarily for RP and strategy purposes, "Here's a perfectly carved bust of our target." "Here's what the king sounds like." "Here's a 3D map with topography based on what I saw through my familiar's eyes, the enemies are Here, Here, aaaand Here" "This is what the creature we fought looked like." As a DM I'll sometimes run checks to see how accurate the caster can make it, but overall it's a handy tool and stays useful all the way through :)
Instead of a crate, I usually have my character make a rising up motion with their hands and make the illusion a 5 ft cube of whatever the ground is made of. Now it looks like I used something like Mold Earth or something to raise the ground up to create a wall.
Minor illusion is also a fun way to flair your caster. What kind of occluders do you use? Walls of bones? An impenetrable tangle of roses and thorns? Or, yes, a crate.
Instead of waxworks or maniquines Cast it to make a suit of full plate striking a dynamic pose.
How about just a broom with a wig on top
How about a scary looking taxidermied animal?
Better yet, just make it a corpse - if someone sees a skeleton with a sword, they'll assume it's an undead.
Minor Illusion also means your Bard with Perfomance checks is their own 2 piece band.
I do that. Also use it to play victory music after a fight(Final Fantasy is my go to)
DROP THE BASE
Add holograms and pyrotechnics to finish too. Performance didn't get the reaction you wanted? Boost the applause noise toward the back of the room or sides.
My bards often like a big band sound. No need to limit the effect to one "instrument" I think, at least by RAW. A band is a sound, as is an orchestra. Listen to the sound of a recorded orchestra emitted by a single speaker. It's all just sound waves. A CD or MP3 doesn't have tracks for separate instruments like a recording studio. A single speaker can only make one sound at a time. The minor illusion spell says:
"... or you can make discrete sounds at different times before the spell ends."
Sounds almost like the definition of music. Consider too, would you allow the sound of rats squeaking and scurrying? Bats flapping, people running, weapons clashing, an audience murmuring, or jingle bells on a horse. If any of those collective nouns are ok, then why not a band? The volume is limited to a lion's roar, but that's ok. YDMV - Your DM may vary.
You sort of hinted at one of my favorite combinations, Silent Image plus (auditory) Minor Illusion, on a Warlock.
Being able to cast Silent Image at-will is an under-appreciated feature, especially when buffed up by auditory illusions. Silent Image can move, is larger and isn't limited to objects. Without Minor Illusion though, it's not nearly as strong.
Misty Visions is a lot of fun. Probably the best low level "cast at will" invocation
@@TreantmonksTemple the issue I've had playing it is that both silent image and minor illusion take actions, so dm would not let me sync the image and sound convincingly. You ever encounter this?
@@I..cast..fireball The spell states that when you cast it as a voice "The sound continues unabated throughout the duration, or you can make discrete sounds at different times before the spell ends." I'd say that it works if you cast the cantrip first then on your next turn you cast the silent image, now you can use BOTH of them together since the minor illusion does NOT require concentration to keep the effect going after it being cast, and you can use the "you can make discrete sounds at different times before the spell ends" part to synchronize the sound with the silent image while you control the silent image with your action.
@@khruler I agree with you. It's just not all DMs do. Mine says the discrete sounds need to be the same sound that I specified when cast. So I could yell "help" over and over again, but can not hold a conversation.
Problem is there are a lot of competing invocations to take. Like mask of many faces, voice of the chain master, agonizing blast, repelling blast, tomb of Levistus, eldritch mind. All arguably more important than silent image at will, which uses your concentration, so therefore you can't debuff the enemy with hex or cause fear (or better spells at higher spell slots)
I recently used minor illusion for something I thought was pretty clever. I wanted to prevent a player from getting counterspelled (I was doing a combat test) so I had them create a spot of cover, hide behind it, and then cast their spell while obscured by the illusion. Since the other caster couldn't see them, they couldn't counterspell them.
I haven't tried this tactic yet, but I'm waiting to get the chance. Cast fog cloud (preferably at a higher level to make a truly massive cloud). Then use minor illusion to duplicate the sounds of my party members in combat. I might be able to misdirect enemies who can't see their way through the fog.
That works in the imagination but not by raw rules. Fog cloud doesn't mean enemies don't know where the opponents are. They have to take the hide action.
@@jrg305 Imagine if you had no fog cloud, but used major image for an illusory duplicate of yourself. The enemy can see you right there, but they can also see the illusion and might go for it first. In the blindness of a fog cloud, an audio illusion would be good enough to act as that duplicate.
@@jrg305 It means they know where the opponents were. They don't know where they are.
I absolutely believe you could use fog cloud and then misdirect them through the fog until they come out the other side and find nothing. It's literally the magicians smoke trick, and figuratively done on steroids (since you hear your targets on the other side of the fog and don't realize it's an illusion till you pass through the fog.
After the paladin dropped and the fighter drug her out of a room filled with baddies, my gnome warlock brought up the rear by retreating down a hallway and yelling “WALL OF POISON THORNS!” And used minor illusion to create a thorny bush. It not only granted cover but it served as an obstacle. Out of combat, he was constantly casting minor illusions to help illustrate his stories. I colored it as “paintings” he would create that hovered in the air, or small figurines on a board. The group called them my “PowerPoint” presentations :)
An illusion of a wall with a loophole in it to see out of and fire arrows "through" could work for a player to hide behind for cover. Visually this makes sense to give an enemy attacker a visual disadvantage on the attack, but it would actually do nothing physically. So if the -5 to hit from 3/4 cover makes an attacker miss, it seems completely wrong, as an arrow would just go straight through the illusion.
This is addressed in the DMG page 272
HITTING COVER
When a ranged attack misses a target that has cover you can use this optional rule (yes I know this is an optional rule, keep reading) to determine whether the cover was struck by the attack. First, determine whether the attack roll would have hit the protected target without cover. If the attack roll falls within a range low enough to miss the target but high enough to strike the target if there had been no cover, the object used for cover is struck.
With that said, if the object being struck is an illusion it would not be struck and it would just hit the person hiding behind illusionary cover. As a player I want so much to use Minor Illusion to allow my Gloomstalker Echo Knight to hide behind an illusionary bush will hit arrows all come out of his echo somewhere else. As a DM Minor Illusion will never give an AC bonus for cover, only a visual advantage or disadvantage.
Chris, I was wondering how do you feel about this? My thought was an enemy attacker would have disadvantage from visual obscurement , but the player behind the illusionary cover would not receive any bonus to AC because the cover is just an illusion. Once the enemy hits the player, they would see through the illusion and no longer have disadvantage.
Additionally, I don't think an Echo Knight who is concealed, using a bow but having the arrow come from it's Echo should have it's position reveled. I know this would be very overpowered being able to attack with advantage every turn, but logically there is no reason there position would be compromised.
I have to confess. My kenku illusionist is exactly 5ft tall so he can walk inside his minor illusions which have a max height of 5ft as well.
Now that's great! Hide inside it like a box and suddenly you have advantage.
I've recently started using minor Illusion to create a stylish and taller version of myself in a pose behind me during introductions.
You can only make objects but that’s funny, I’d allow it.
@kevinelston404 yeah, I told my DM it was a semi lifelike wax statue that resembles a Jojo's stand
Also theme music is a use for minor illusion (i.e. after battle music from FF7 after an encounter)
That’s pretty good
Also useful outside combat. Showing maps, people & monsters, recorded messages, marking traps for others (there's your help action!). Used in bardic performances to show still screens of the scenes your describing or singing about.
You should note that Intelligence is a monster dump stat, as is proficiency in investigation. Thus the chance for the foe to fail the check only gets better with your prof and Int. A CR 15 monster will likely have a 13 Int (+1) vs your DC 18.
The return of roll20 strategy! Love it.
Great guide! These subtle different ways you can use spells it abilities it's what I like in every system.
Great video! I play a Shadow Monk and have been using Minor Illusion mainly for playing pranks and giving other characters exact visuals of things I've seen, but I dramatically underestimated the combat potential of this spell!
If you're fighting an enemy with Counterspell, could you create an illusion of your own voice casting the verbal component of a high-level spell to try to trick them to waste their spell slots?
Thats fucking cruel
@@DAEDRICDUKE1 It's chaotic neutral :)
"Sure. Make a Deception/Performance check to lip-synch with your spell's sounds."
Counterspell specifies that you take the reaction when you see a creature casting a spell, so a strict raw reading means that they can't blow a counterspell since your minor illusion has already resolved
@@veras7927 Or when you HEAR it.
You must be aware of a spell being CAST.
Deception should suffice, but minor illusion will let you roll with advantage.
Another strange thing with RAW for minor illusion creating creatures. It technically can't create a creature but I can create a corpse of a creature, and say that corpse is of a creature that just freshly died of poison or something indistinguishable from the outside, now they look identical to a creature but technically aren't.
No need for wax or stone versions of creatures now.
I mostly use Minor Illusion to mimic fireballs in front of a Target's face or, when shopping, have an arrow point down toward my 2'7" forest gnome when the salesman can't see me over the counter.
That's amazing.
How would it mimic a fireball? It's a single static object, whereas a fireball is a moving, dynamic explosion...
@@LeMayJoseph It's a psych out to cause a panicked reaction. Nothing says it's static, it's just in a 5' cube, so a fireball appearing 5' in front of the target and ending in its face should be startling.
@@robinthrush9672 nothing says its static, but other illusion spells say that the illusion can move. Therefore, since minor illusion doesn't say it can move, it can't move
Also, fireball isn't an object. Minor illusion can only create objects
@@crownlexicon5225 Other illusion spells say that they can be moved "to another location", meaning outside the 5' cube Minor Illusion is stuck in. The only part that moderately supports you here is that "it can be altered to appear to move to that location naturally". Spells usually say what they "can't" do and things not specified are up to the DM at worst. Minor Illusion says an image can't create light, sound, smell, or be touched and other non-offensive illusions that can create sensory effect like heat or cold can't produce them strong enough to cause harm.
Fireball IS an object; it's just produced by magic. It can be seen and it can be touched, especially when it explodes. And I've seen people create real-life fireballs, which would be object regardless of some sort of "if it's magic, it's not an object" loop hole.
Great video. This is exactly what I was looking for, thanks.
Here's a three part combo I came up with, though it does require a 10th level wizard: Glyph of Warding (upcast to 5th level). Effect, Spell Glyph: Wall of Force (5th level spell) creating a hemispherical dome. part three, Minor Illusion of something the target wants.
Here's an example of this in action: A local Baron has overheard rumors that a group of adventurers are out for his head. He's worried but his court mage has an Idea (See setup above) The Illusion in this case would be the shape of someone lying in the Baron's bed. When the assassins approach the trap is sprung, sealing them inside the dome created by the Wall of Force. The Wizard drop the Illusion on the bed, to instead create the sound of an alarm bell.
Nice work. Good uses for a minor spell.
your point that minor illusion at higher levels loses its "scaling" or effectiveness doesn't seem to make sense. True it doesn't do more, and your enemies might be more clever or have alternate senses, but against lets say high level grog like characters, it should still do what it has always done.
That's true. I guess you could say it scales with the enemies it affects.
The point being that it affects less and less enemies,
Because of their better stats and abilities.
So in a way it does lose effectiveness.
I agree about scaling. It's arguably the most powerful cantrip. It's undeniably the most utilitarian and versatile from the standpoint of battlefield control. However, it's more about the caster's thoughtfulness and the DM's interpretation that can make it so good, especially at higher levels.
I think the idea behind it being less effective is more along the lines that you will simply generally have better options to choose from the higher level you get. The kind of granular advantages that it can give you at a low level are great when you can't deal much more than 5 or 6 damage, but when your spells are dealing significantly more damage, those granular advantages start to lose their luster. The spell still does what it's meant to do, but you're using an action you could instead be using to kill a bad guy. It definitely depends on the situation.
@@rageoftyrael totally agree with this. In combat, not your best move. I guess was thinking of getting the drop on enemies and preserving spell slots, especially when resting is dicey. As a cantrip, it's always in your back pocket. It still has so much utility, but I haven't used it at higher levels to give a fair review.
By the way great video for a GM. I have been struggling on how to handle illusion spells especially minor illusion for the GM side of the screen
I'd say for Shadow Monks, this video is awesome. Since they don't necessarily damage spike all the time, I like the idea of giving a companion advantage, or a "smoke bomb" to hide them xD
Or even just for the stealth applications, it ought to keep the same utility throughout levels
Minor Illusion is something that is quite good for a Rogue to nab, and it's worth it for a Magic Initiate choice even at higher levels. Letting the rogue book it and use illusions to disappear is a good way to survive long enough to heal up or set up an ambush even at higher levels. Getting advantage on someone when they aren't expecting it can be a nasty way to play some games there.
And I've found that a better option for a minor illusion to have a target pop up for someone is a suit of full plate armor or a floating weapon, animated objects are common enough that they can be a scary thing.
I have used it in RP to create a sign above and behind someone's head "He's lying" or silently to direct party using an arrow that they can see but opponents can't. Also used to create effectively psychic paper like in Doctor Who .. risks discovery.. but a scroll can be flourished (then cast cantrip to create correct words/ wax seal) and then put away before guard can study too intently.
One thing I have started using minor illusion for is what I nicknamed the MOM map it is me using a familiar to scout then projecting a minor illusion for a map to show a map or hallowgram. Another way I have used it is to cause a glow effect on me during an interrogation to intimidate
I feel like making illlusory terrain will almost always be useful to break LoS. A sorcerer can use Quicken to cast a levelled spell as well as make cover with Minor Illusion all the way to endgame
The caster only needs to move 5 feet up or down to have line of sight on the target unless they used the hide action. The image would provide cover against ranged attacks in that scenerio, which is +5 to ac. The Dmg covers this on the chapter 'running on a grid' .
Create a wall with 3 sides around the party member. Problem solved.
Very interesting video!
I think some GMs might see these tactics as exploitative, but this is really fun, and fits excellently with an arcane trickster type :)
As a DM, I would love my players to use Minor Illusion this way. Makes for an extremely fun game :)
Based on the fact that the Shadow Monk gets the Minor Illusion cantrip - I think these are just the expected tactics to use the cantrip for.
At 9th level, you get animate objects. Use minor illusion to give either the 10 coins obscurement, or if the blindsense of the objects sees through illusions, you can obscure the enemy. This will give advantage/disadvantage for all your animated objects. An obscured enemy may need a new cantrip each round BUT an obscured zone may need a hide roll (advantage) each round by each object.
Great video! I may forward this to my bard player. :)
Only one problem - you said they may have no choice but to attack with cover/disad. OR, one of the archers just shoots the crate, and ends the illusion... of course, as you note, this assumes they have an inkling that it’s illusory...
In regards to scaling with lvls, the minor illusion would still be great to block line of sight. At higher lvls, the opponents could assume it was a wall spell. As a DM i would allow/encourage continuous use of the minor illusion in higher lvls.
I cast a Minor Illusion of a 3 sided box put over me, an enemy is in front of me, I touch the inside back wall to reveal to myself that it's an illusion, I sit inside and cast spells to mess with the enemy's mind but don't visibly go through the box and they leave me alone because they think I'm trapped inside a box and they're just not having a good mental health day...Solid Snake Bard.
If they investigate and fail their save (very likely since my bard has a 17 in Charisma) and they walk away from me...boom, illusion fails, but I get an attack of opportunity with advantage due to element of surprise. Heck, if you needed to convince anyone to do nearly anything, incept them, inside their mind have a shopkeep's own voice suggest that he should give your party cheaper items. Quite literally be the devil or angel on his shoulder.
My favorite cantrip is Prestidigitation. It's not my most useful, mind. But it's the best atmospheric & RPing cantrip.
Plus if you go into icky sewers it's really handy.
Minor Illusion is arguably more useful plus is a great backup atmospheric & RPing cantrip.
Lol, yes, post sewer clean-up is a chore. I always say that prestidigitation is the cantrip I would want in real life.
As a DM. They make a wax figure behind them. They turn around and make a DC 10 Wisdom save. If they pass it's an illusion otherwise they might attack it or back away or do something else.
it's an investigation check against the PC spell save? just making up your own rules to punish creativity i see. sound like Mercer lol
Static image of an empty hallway in front of guards. They have no reason to check and the party can walk past
Too big
The furniture on the battle map are so huge, the table takes the same place as 3-4 beds moved next to each other
I'll be using on my arcane trickster to hide in the middle of a fight in the open field, using cunning action
Create wall, which blocks sight, hide, then move.
Or create a wall at range, which then blocks sight, and attack through the wall next turn with advantage for sneak attack.
Uses will be limited, but still could be situationally good for sure.
I also want to use in the markets, to make missing things less obvious.
Cast on an object I intend to steal, overlapping the real with the illusion.
Slight of hand to palm the object without notice.
Object still appears to be there, for a minute longer.
So guidance you have to touch the person too. So I say the power of lathander compels you... Every single time.
Nice Vid, nice to have some new tools to throw at my players and use when I'm one of them!
I use a bit of a homebrew 'familiarity with magic' system for enchantment and illusion. If the subject of the spell is unfamiliar, they are more likely to believe the illusion or not realize that they were charmed, but if they are a spellcaster (especially an illusionist), they are very likely (or certain) to recognize the magic if not the specific spell. It means that I can be more flexible with illusions and charms depending on the encounter.
I think a lot of minor illusion can be done by a pact of the chain imp. Since warlocks get so few cantrips, I unlearned minor illusion at level 4 for magic stone.
chill touch doesnt originate from your character and its an attack roll, so you might be able get advantage without revealing the illusion.
What are your opinions on prestidigitation vs minor illusion? Prestidigitation is usually my go-to cantrip whenever I play a caster, but I want to know why you think that minor illusion would be more practical.
legit took me a minute to understand that you were saying "melee" and not "mah lay" i was like "wth is a mah lay character?"
Would you also do a guide on fog cloud, or really control spells in general? I have some trouble imagining how would you use something like a fog cloud consistently to a great effect, since enemies can still run trough it and it blocks vision both ways, so it's not like you can get a free shot at them.
Yes, I won't do battlefield in general, it's too big a topic and the video would be too long. Fog Cloud I will definitely tackle, likely within the next month or two (it's on my short list already)
It's worth noting that these crates/walls can only be maximum 5 ft tall, so you have to demean yourself a bit by staying hunched over if you want to count as unseen behind one. If you're showing over the top, I don't know how I'd rule it. Maybe cover, except that cover reflects not only the difficulty in aiming at a small part of the target but also the effect of the physical object blocking the attack. Maybe a 50/50 to decide if they miss high (and miss) or miss low (and hit, if they'd hit your non-cover AC)? That's starting to be too cumbersome.
Somewhat connected: for your L-wall idea to give the fighter advantage for being unseen in front of the attacker, the fighter would have to find some way of interacting with it without the enemies seeing, or else the fighter can't see his target. Maybe a big red button on his side of the wall? If the fighter peeks over the 5-ft wall, he's not unseen any more, right? This starts to get into my issues with the ambiguity of when being "unseen" breaks.
This isn't an issue for dwarves, gnomes, halflings, and any other shorter races in the other books. 👍
Besides, even if it's just acting as cover instead of full concealment, that still has its own benefit that wasn't there before.
Cover and concealment are similar ideas, but are very distinct. Concealment is still more helpful that just being out in the open, even if it doesn't actually provide a physical wall of protection to the user.
The fighter can use a free action to interact with the object if history with this tactic isn't enough to understand that it's an illusion.
Minor illusion in combat can work as a poor man’s darkness spell as well, cast a black box on the enemy’s square and for a round the creature is effectively blinded, it can’t see other creatures outside the box if creatures react with the box they can see the creature inside and attack with advantage, the creature inside would have disadvantage vs effects it can’t see until it reacted with the box.
The creature is interacting with the box and can therefore see through it.
If the box was hollow and surrounded the square I would rule the blinded condition until the creature’s next turn when it can interact with the square
@@georgequilitz8530 you can make it for most things where they aren't directly touching it till they move which should last till their turn. of course if they are tall they can see a bit around their feet
If all of a sudden I couldn't see I'd either reach out to feel my surroundings which would dispel the effect and/or move 5'. I'd say a mook would be no different. Either way this wouldn't have the desired effect. At worst they'd use 5' of movement.
Okay, so a five-by-five-by-five-foot crate would create cover (3/4 cover, I'd say, the best you can get), but unless you're a halfling, gnome, or (possibly) dwarf illusionist, it's not going to block line of sight unless you choose to go prone ... which is not necessarily a bad idea since you can attack on later turns by using half your movement to spring up and (I would say, if I were the DM) half your movement to drop again after attacking. This is great even if the DM is thinking tactically and has both the enemy spellcaster and at least one of the two archers prepare actions to attack when you reappear, because you'll still have 3/4 cover ... though the archers might want to concentrate on the bard or the more immediately threatening paladin and cleric.
The only weakness in your thinking, I believe, is that this all falls apart if the spellcaster chooses to cast an attack cantrip like Fire Bolt at the illusory crate to destroy it, because then a *PHYSICALLY REAL* bolt of fire created by the spellcaster interacts with the illusory object.
I also love the idea of using minor illusion to hide an archery rogue for sneak attack. I just wonder ... RAW, does a member of the party interacting physically with the illusory object reveal to ENEMIES, too, that it's illusory? The text is unclear here, but I think it might ... which would mean that the "wall of ice" example you gave wouldn't work, because as soon as the paladin interacted with it to allow itself to attack through it, the enemy spellcaster would see through the illusion as well.
Also, as regards higher-level campaigns, you *DO* need to consider the possibility that, even if a "campaign" ends at level 5, the DM might want to continue with the same characters, in the same world, but with either home brew or *other adventures in the same setting.* Luckily, the latest addition to (general) D&D lore (Tasha's Cauldron) allow us to avoid that conundrum by switching out Minor Illusion if we ever consider it to have outlived its usefulness ...
As a cantrip Minor Illusion can still be useful at higher levels for when you have already cast a spell using a minor action during the current turn. For example, maybe you could cast the crate to block line of sight, then Misty Step to another location that is itself also out of sight. Now your enemies believe you are behind the crate, perhaps baiting out some powerful abilities or spells. As an illusionist you could potentially also make the sound of a powerful spell being cast from inside the box on a subsequent turn to further confuse your enemies.
One thing people often forget about dnd combat. 6 second rounds and opportunity attacks come from it.
When you are in melee you are continuously parrying/dodging/striking at enemies next to you.
This is why you only do damage once in 6 seconds, get more at higher level, and more if somebody turns to run.
If you summon a wax statue creature behind somebody. They immediately notice it's not moving, parrying, striking. They also immediately interact with said object and notice it's an illusion.
This is the RAW. Enemies will not turn to cast or attack a statue. They immediately notice without having to spend an action or anything.
Depends on their intelligence, many creatures would react to something suddendly appearing behind them, many will not.
Great video and great job describing my favourite cantrip!! There is just one thing our DM and me are always discussing.. imagine a combat as an arcane trickster rogue, I created a crate next to the enemy boss. At the beginning of my turn I am behind the crate, so that the boss cant see me. Now in my turn I move around the crate to the boss and hit him from the side as my action.. would I have adventage here or not? Since Im hidden behind the crate it is kind of an suprise, isnt it? that would be a great way to get sneak attack every turn, of course combined with the mobile feat or cunning action to disengage and move back to the crate. Thanks in Advance!
Most optomized use is Minor Illusion a chair and squat on it to build leg strength.
Protip: Cast it before entering the room in order to give you 9 rounds of sound distractions.
- Can also be used by a druid who has this spell to be able to "speak" while in beast form if needed (using their illusionary voice) or as distraction, intimidation, etc.
- If you are sneaking can be used to make a subtle noise distraction up to 30 feet away to throw people off your true location.
- Similarly if you are a "darklock" in a darkness bubble you can have your voice or other sounds emanate from up to 30' away.
- Can be used in a similar way to make someone think someone is sneaking up on them. (Though the 30' range makes this difficult.)
Treantmonk ... treantmonk.. wait, I remember reading your posts. Oh hell yeah. Thank you, algorithm!
I love this video! Thank you for the guide. Here's something I've been experimenting with: minor illusion can't make an object move, but what if you cast the illusion to be in mid air? If the DM rules that gravity affects it, then you have a much scarier fake creature, like a wax panther jumping on an enemy while the barbarian is attacking, giving advantage.
Minor illusion blocks line of sight, but it blocks it both ways, so it's like combat in complete darkness, advantage and disadvantage cancel out
Does the interaction with the illusion have to be physical touch? Couldn't the enemy spellcaster just cast a simple spell like magic missile or a simple damage cantrip against the suspected illusion? If the magic missile or firebolt just goes through the create isn't that a confirmation that it's an illusion? Yes it's wasting a turn doing so but it confirms the illusion thereby negating the effects.
One thing I allow for Minor Illusion is to allow it to sometimes be used as a help action in combat. Yes, you can't create a creature, but you sure can create the sound of one. An intelligent creature, like a goblin or guard that hears "BACKSTAB!" from just behind them is sure to flinch and maybe take their focus off the enemy in front of them. I tend to allow this with a Deception roll so as to not make it too easy, and the same enemy is unlikely to fall for it twice. Can it be used to give your Rogue or Paladin ally advantage for an important attack once in a combat encounter? Absolutely.
Seems like I could give the gronk disadvantage vs my BSF every round by continuing to recast minor illusion as a wall between them whenever the gronk interacts with the last one. One attack per round at disadvantage vs my BSF feels pretty good at any level.
I once cast minor illusion on top of a halfling rogue and he managed to get several sneak attacks while disguised as a barrel in a cart
Take the feat magic initiate and the cantrips Minor Illusion and Prestidigitation
Thanks for the info
Minor Illusion + sleight of hand in a tavern is money. Agree with the comments that the most excellent uses for Minor Illusion have nothing to do with combat.
Why not use it to enhance shadows in the room to make them think that creatures are moving up on them? Or a blade trap/ bear trap to keep them at range?
Another use would be to project the voice of their leader (if you've heard it) outside calling for a retreat. Or, a five foot square smack dab in the middle of the enemies of creepy, distracting whispers.
Maybe a kind DM would give them disadvantage on attacks or whatever. 👍
Question: BY RAW. Could a small PC/creature that knows of the minor illusion of a (5x5 cubed rock) be able to attack with ADV from behind the illusion ? For 1 attack right ? Provided that the target is unaware of the small attacker (therefore the PC is treated as an unseen attacker). Is that right ?
I see no reason why not.
I mean, as a Wizard you can use your familiar to do that anyway by giving that small PC the help action.
The only thing about obscure is that minor illusion creates at most a 5' x 5' x 5' cube. Meaning, it's only 5 feet tall. Most PCs are taller. A DM could rule that you only have 3/4th cover, or force you to duck down (and on the next turn, half of your movement to stand, and possibly be the target of a held action).
I think that because the spell is only a cantrip, and people have a tendency to overly abuse it, DMs may find ways of overcoming these situations, or applying a situational drawback to it's use.
Also interacting with an object (or use object) is an action, not a free action. So, if your own party members interact with your illusion, they are doing this at the cost of an attack.
"Use an object" requires an action, "Interact with an object" is done in tandem with an action and movement as per PHB. Personally, I'm 6'2", and I am very confident I can hide behind a 5x5x5 object without falling prone. I could see maybe if your character is a Firbolg or a bugbear or something...
The player doesn't need to go entirely prone imo, they can simply crouch, duck, slouch or what have you
If you play a forest gnome, you'll get to use this no matter what class you play. 👍 Fun times.
the crate / ice wall are GREAT ideas...except one major issue...the crate/wall is only 5 feet tall..so UNLESS you shorter than 5 feet OR you go prone, you will not be fully obscured. SMALL RACES FTW! (RAW, since there is no option to crouch down and walk)
can I use minor illusion to make a chamber pot around an enemies head to block vision Skyrim style?
You laid out the benefits of minor illusion very well. At the end you said it got less useful. I am confused by that. Why wouldn't those benefits persist at every level?
If I have any comrades who focus on ranged attacks, then wouldn't building them something to hide behind always be useful? What are some examples of the ability being less useful at higher levels? (Mechanically, I want to know ways this ability becomes less useful)
I don't think it mechanically gets less useful, just that the other options are more powerful. Like sure you could cast minor illusion to give your ranged ally advantage on one attack, or you could cast psychic lance or transmute rock and knock out one more enemies turns.
My DM said I cannot use it like you suggested because I’m taller than 5ft.
I’m playing a gnome in this game, so, it should work.
Minor illusion maps that the dm shares for a minute (or however long)
A question on creating obstacles to the LOS to your character. If you minor illusioned a crate, or boulder in front of your character, wouldn't everyone who was looking at you know it was an illusion since it just appeared in front of you? What's the point of it then?
Suspecting it to be an illusion and confirming it is an illusion through an investigation roll or interact with an object are not the same thing.
Also consider the enemies might already be distracted with direct combat and not notice.
If you're at the edge of a forest, for example, and minor illusion a big old stump in front of you, it's more likely to not stand out as it's just part of another tree. 👍
For the house example in the video, I might've gone with something like a piece of furniture instead that blends in with the surroundings.
Or even a partial wall that matches the rest of the interior. Like it's always been there. Better yet, a borderless 'mirror' that projects an image of your space if you weren't there, making it look like YOU disappeared instead with invisibility. 😄
Summoning objects isn't unheard of. . . unless your hiding just make gregarious motions with your hands as you cast to make them believe your doing something significant and have the obstruction appear.
Serious question. Around 15:40 you talk about creating an illusion of something for the enemies to target or be intimidated by. This led me to come up with the simple (but possibly effective) idea of casting to create a tiger behind one of the enemies, and yelling out (as my free action) "Watch out, there's a tiger behind the kobolds!" Obviously the kobolds (enemies) would turn to face the new threat. However, lets say for one reason or another that the kobolds don't face the target, or poorly roll and are not able to interact with the target. Unless there was prior agreement from the party, would they not also assume the illusion was real? What would prevent the paladin as example from focusing his attacks on the illusion ghost that spawns next to him and a kobold. Are party members simply immune from the party's illusion? Would this also apply to enemies (enemy spellcaster casts illusion, and his party members are immune, even if it was not agreed to prior to combat)?
I think you give players in the party the benefit of the doubt that they know their Wizards tricks and knows this tactic has worked in the past
I'm not sure if I agree with your interpretation of what it means to "see through" an illusion. My take on that would be that you see the illusion for what it is, not that it becomes transparent.
Also great use, have a spellcaster keep creating threatening 'creatures' behind an enemy, allowing the rogue to sneak in when the target stops paying attention to them.
The spell description says: If a creature discerns the illusion for what it is, the illusion becomes faint to the creature. That seems to indicate that it becomes see-through.
How about making a rock or bush appear in your own space when nobody is looking. As long as you don't interact with it. A good way for a scout to find cover.
Even better yet: A crate that moves with you crouching inside.
"Aqua Mamba..."
Unfotunately, the illusion can't move.
@@CallenExile Technically, it can, if your character was to just spam the cantrip; creating a new image just a little further away every time.
Not an option in combat, of course.
It wouldn't look like it was moving though, you'd be completely visible between castings. Play a warlock and take misty visions if you want to do this legit.
@@CallenExile If you are spotted moving from place to place, especially with a box around you, you're not playing Metal G- I mean Rogue right anyway.
Minor illusion is ok it has some good uses but, Silent image is better because minor illusion limits you especially visually by only allowing an object where silent image gives you way more leeway with creating more useful visuals.
That said, minor illusion comes into its own by combining this with silent image. So let's say our halfling thief is being chased by a constable. So we have the wizard first create a minor illusion of the sound of a crackling fire in the fireplace. Then he creates an illusionary copy of the wall and a visual representation of a roaring fire in said fireplace.While we could also have done the same but just depicting an empty fire place however, a guard might actually check up the flu thereby breaking the illusion but, Noone would suspect something if there's a fire going. So I like it's use but I think silent image is they way to go for creating the visual image aspect of your illusion and use minor illusion for auditory ambiance.
I cast the Minor Illusion of a banshee's scream next to the Spellcaster's ear, then cast Enlarge on the Paladin
So you can create a crate, go inside it during the combat and the guards will be "huh? where did he go?". Ergo, you just made the Solid Snake caster.
Wanted your opinion on the use of this spell and similar ones.
How do you feel about having the illusion cast over top an allied target to obsurce them...but it should immediately be obvious to them its an illusion because they interact with it as it's cast?
If I was the DM I would allow that.
Thanks for the input. Great video. Been waiting for more illusion stuff from you. You got me playing a god wizard illusionist. I like your viewpoints. ^.^
I use it to play accompaniment music for my bard's performances
Always find the people who say "no" to any interesting use of minor illusion are the same DM's who will go "All of a sudden a box appears in front of the wizard. Ranger's turn next...he shoots an arrow at the newly appearing box and it goes right through and straight at you. Does 18 hit? No, no disadvantage."
Question if the illusory object can be no larger than a 5 ft cube thus being only 5 ft tall. Wouldn’t that only give partial cover to any creature taller than 5ft?
Generally, it is assumed a medium creature can fit in a 5' square. Personally, I'm 6'2", and I can fit in a 5' square quite easily, and would not need to fall prone to hide behind a 5' barrier.
What is he using in the background to move characters and objects around? Seems like a good way to create maps and track character movement.
roll20 [dot] net
Thank you.
Could you do the same for prestadigitation?
Would a flare cause blindness to dark vision.
Why don't you cast illusion of big shield (5x5 ft) with tiny firing-hole inside. You can shoot through the hole for whole minute, enemies woun't see you, so you have advantage and if they try to attack you, they will have disadvantage - but who sane would try to shoot small hole, when there are more valid targets.
5 foot is about 1,5M so unless the caster its a halfling or dwarf or gnome, the enemys should be able to draw LoS (Unless they go prone, wich creates other advantages/disadvanteges by itself... rigth?)
TLDR: I think one could just crouch a bit to block LoS, but people that are too tall might have troubles.
I don't know about your DM, but People over 5ft can crouch a bit to obscure themselves. One doesn't have to go fully prone to effectively hide behind something as tall as a wood fence.
I'd rule it as blacking LoS as long as the character can reasonably be behind it completely. Most creatures are taller than wide, so I doubt the width of the minor illusion will be a deciding factor. Now if a person is 10ft tall? that might prove more difficult since they have to crouch till they are half their height.
For the illusion walls, you're assuming the paladin is below 5ft on height. That's is not full cover/obscurement. but at most 3/4tss cover assuming is a 6ft tall regular guy.
Crouch, and your problems are solved.
Question... wouldn't a smart caster just target the crate with a cantrip like firebolt? And then what happens to the fire bolt? Does it pass through and hit towards you?
I tend to think you would wreck the illusion but give a really easy Dexterity save to the protected character or a massive AC bonus. I like to think that Rule of Cool applies here more than RAW.
I agree with the Rule of Cool - personally, I would have that have a chance of working if a PC did it, but not against a PC. When I bend the rules, it's usually not against the PC's
@@TreantmonksTemple
That's a good way to play it especially at low levels I think.
Btw, the guide was exceptional. My wife and I just watched it, and she got super excited for her new bard or wizard (not sure which she is playing yet) and these kind of creative tactics.
When I hear about couples watching the videos together, it is humbling. Thank you.
I can’t imagine an enemy spellcaster seeing a crate suddenly appear not immediately recognize it for the illusion that it is. Rather than cast through it, though, I’d have the spellcaster just target someone else since the PC would be still be obstructed.
A question: what if I cast the spell on a moving cart? does the illusion moves with the cart?
Good question. I talk about that a bit in my Wizard Subclasses vid. My answer is if I'm the DM, yes, but officially, I dunno.
@@TreantmonksTemple Many thanx, with your answer I'm gonna talk to my master.
@@TreantmonksTemple and what if your campaign has planets revolving around a sun does magic that target an area move at thousands of miles per hour
I mean, it scales inasmuch as the save DC goes up with Proficiency Bonus.
don't you need a line of sight to make the wax halfling appear behind the enemy wizard? aren't all the people in melee blocking the view?
As a bonus to the already great "big crate" method, you give yourself full cover. That means you can't be targeted by attack rolls at all from those creatures.
regarding hiding behind or inside the minor illusion box. It's only a 5 foot cube. It only hides them if they are kneeling inside/behind them. Most characters are taller than 5 foot, and unless the player communicates the plan ahead of time for the party to be kneeling at every turn, this strategy isn't working.