I followed n watched shabir videos debate since 2007..he is still one of the best debater at speakers corner..respect n love from Indoyemen (Indonesian Yemeni)
I am the person with the eye patch. *Innate* means inborn and naturally occurring. Something being innate means that human infants are born with it. Human infants are born with only two innate fears: that of falling and of loud noises and EVERYTHING else is learned. A child could well lose this innate fear by age 1 year ( like your son for example ) BUT he was born with that innate fear in him. An infant will have developed much by 1 year of age from birth. They call it the *Palmar Grasp Reflex*. You are probably familiar with the incredible grip possessed by even tiny babies ? There is example of it in this video: czcams.com/video/jXJLaGguQiU/video.html It is relevant to this argument because Shabir was suggesting that human infants are born with an innate awareness of God. There is no reason to believe that.
@@digglyda - to say there is no reason means you have looked at all the studies carried out on the subject and found that none point to the idea of believing in God to be innate. This means you are either ignorant of the sources available or for your own bias, ignore those sources because therr are plenty of studies that had been carried out which give plenty of reasons why belief in God is innate. This means there are reasons to believe it, so that makes your claim redundant.
And [mention] when your Lord took from the children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants and made them testify of themselves, [saying to them], "Am I not your Lord?" They said, "Yes, we have testified." [This] - lest you should say on the day of Resurrection, "Indeed, we were of this unaware." Quran 7:172 So direct your face toward the religion, inclining to truth. [Adhere to] the fitrah of Allah upon which He has created [all] people. No change should there be in the creation of Allah. That is the correct religion, but most of the people do not know.Qur'an 30:30
The title is great....I never thought such word in Philosophy. Even the word "Origin, why we here?, what the purpose of life?,what is consciousness" is also default position to find an answer. A fundamental question.
38:20 I am sorry Mr. Mustafa, but sophisticated algorithms does not mean it can not be understood, you just have to look at how the machine made the decision. To what attribute higher preference was given. And the choice here is a selection from different possibilities with varying degrees of preferences in all possible variables. The machine generates a value system and finds a solution, although from such a design, anyone can see that the choice is not absolute in terms of value, but rather a relative value preference choice, may be that is why he is saying that it is non-understandable. Actually it shows a weakness in the design of the programming, that the program can not account for such a complex myriad. Indirectly it also shows how great the programming of Allah is that he has input into the human brain. Allah is Akbar, far, far above all being compared to him.
37:08 Br Shabir establishes why the definition of the nature of god must come from god himself because we with our limitedness can not establish his truth in the best form because of our limitedness, necessitating communication from the higher being to us, thus actually indirectly establishing the necessity and validation of revelations(Quran). Br. Shabir Genius. None of us could have come up with this idea. He also refers to whether if such a being exists, is it possible that he can be anything other than one; in order to be absolute, that being can not be anything other than one and unique. Maashallah, Br. Shabir, thank you.
G Hossain Yes, Revelation from Allah is a necessity. Why? Because humans crave communication and the One who created humans have built in this desire. Also the same movie (Cast Away) that Mustafa pointed out highlights this fact very clearly that a deserted human will desire for some communication with other people. Moreover, from an Islamic perspective we know that Adam AS became sad and lonely after a while (even in Paradise) because there were no other humans whom he could relate/communicate to.
Actually the main reason is that with our limited understanding and faculties, when we try to come up with a definition and limit of those definitions, we are going to form only speculative assessments. As Br Shabir was saying, let's make a definition of this supreme being, let's put into the hat of this definition which we think will be suitable, and then he points out that definitely it is only going to be speculative, and not absolutely true, because our knowledge and our experiences are only limited. So this ultimate being must define himself for us who he is, thus necessitating a communication from him to us, otherwise we would not be guided to the truth; one of the primary purpose of the quran is to guide us to the truth of reality(al haq) and that includes the reality of who Allah swt is. Thus if human beings had come up with a book trying to define reality, it would be formed from speculative knowledge and thus would be incomplete and thus by nature would have contradictions; that is another of the properties of the quran that authenticates its veracity: lack of any contradiction to any form of truth we may establish either through science, or pure logic and rationality; if there may seem like there is a contradiction it is because our knowledge on that matter is not yet complete: for example how the universe will meet its end; will it end or will it exist forever. Science says that it may become a very cold space with zero energy and zero entropy, but quran says that it will come to an end; since we do not yet have that knowledge, quran may look to be on shaky grounds, but it is only because our knowledge of the future is incomplete, not because of the quran and it's validity.
What is your view on free will? According to Sam Harris it's just an illusion because of cause and effect, all our decisions are based on prior events, how does Islam understand free will?
What moustafa is saying at 38:00 is wrong. Machine learning algorithms cannot produce novel ideas or data. Machine learning algorithms simply take in already existing data and run it through the algorithm to produce predictions.
What brother shabir is trying to say is this: in order to study any subject there must be a starting point, ie, a default position (thesis) and establish parameters/criterion thereon to prove/disprove the thesis! Again, moustafa failed to understand shabir! If there is a CREATOR (which TRANSCEND SPACE AND TIME), HOW to establish (what KIND of evidence should we be looking for) that there is a creator? And, WHY would the CREATOR communicate with us? Only the CREATOR can give the answers to both questions! So, what kind of evidence should we be looking for?! Physical evidence?! Science are limited to materialistic world and only explain the mechanism of the natural world not meta-physic! Alternatively, we can consider testimonies contain in holy scriptures of every religions (especially abrahamic beliefs)! If testimonies contradicts itself then you can dismiss that religion altogether! ^^
Is there difference between truth and falsehood? Do humans have the ability to differentiate between truth and falsehood? Is truth independent of what humans wish to believe or is truth a human concept that they created and shape as they wish? Does human judgement achieve the full potential of judgement? Hence no further judgment is necessary? Is truth fully achieved and decided upon through such judgement? What else is there? Isnt it more beneficial for humans themselves that a higher judgement is made which achieves the full potential of truth? Perhaps by the source which defined truth and falsehood for humans. If no higher judgment exists, are humans limited to their own judgement. Should humans accept human judgement as a valid and final one even if falsehood was elevated and truth depressed? Is human judgement all there is? Does it achieve the full potential?
Asalamu Alaykum, I think that the only common standard to began the proposition would be to asses the evidence by temporarily accepting each premise and examine if it may or may not satisfy the claim. I don’t see any other way?
Unfortunately there are more than one party talking, so you can’t hear the person who is engaged with brother shabeer, I know it’s difficult, but I hope we keep that in mind to narrow the discussion to one party, jazak allah Alf Khair.
Great to see the Egyptian Jeff Goldblum (Mustapha) in speakers corner. A mind which applies to logic and reason. Great to watch a respectable two way discussion rather than the normal shouting contests in speakers corner
42:07 a non serious philosophy to these important questions. That the transcendent and imminent are the same. Absolute bs. What is his evidence to support this contention. None. Because it is counterintuitive.
The 2009 Ryan Report found that thousands of children were savagely raped or molested in these homes, while thousands more were beaten and starved and forced to work. Boys described nights of terror, lying in bed waiting for priests to come and molest them. "In some schools a high level of ritualized beating was routine," the report said. A new scandal has rocked the church, with the recent discovery that up to 4,000 infants and children - many malnourished and poorly treated - had been buried in unmarked graves at homes for unwed mothers run by Catholic nuns. While xtians roleplay about invisible zombie Jews and magic, their priests keep molesting children. Religion is disgusting and dangerous. Don't let them say they come in peace, they only want power over you.
How could the transcendental being and mankind be unified in excistence if the human can’t utilise The characteristics of the transcendent being. The conversation was going somewhere until it was disrupted by this philosophical ignorance.
it was not an axiom, it was a hypothesis that there is a creator, and then the evidence will support or refute this hypothesis: thats what br shabir was getting at.
G Hossain Actually brother I think belief in Allah is an axiom/1st principle from which people form a world view. And there is nothing wrong with it because many Atheists/Agnostics also ascribe to an axiom/1st principle which is Philosophical Naturalism.
No an axiom is a given truth, however we know what might be axiom in one part of the universe may not be so in another part of the universe, so even these axioms are not absolute in nature. Existence of god is no axiomatic, it must be derived at. And you will not have absolute evidence for existence of god, because the current reality can be explained through natural mechanisms and phenomenons. So belief in god is actually a rational position rather than an absolute certainty position (although because of certain reasons, the proof of god is so strong, that it will be counterintuitive and contrary to sound intelligence and logic to actually not accept the existence of Allah)
G Hossain Actually the belief in Allah is a self evident truth because humans start with it. When humans start to grow and are confronted with conflicting ideologies then I think it becomes a rational position.
40:40 Yes, Allah is full of knowledge, high in wisdom. Do we know or does he know better. If he has communicated with us, who are we to say, we are so lowly, how likely is it that such greatness would communicate. The answer lies in what is being communicated, unless you investigate it, how can you reject whether such a communication even took place or not. Inshallah, the holy quran, then gives you the answers.
Green Homestead Atheist have selective bias. They ignore information that doesn’t confirm to their desires, and only accept twisted “reason” and “evidence” that confirm their ideology.
our rationality and awareness is a dependent facility, we don't possess it forever, and we do not possess it as part of our essence or nature, but rather depend on physical means, in this case our brain, to become cognizant and form ideas. So even our intelligence is nothing more than merely a blessing from god. We are slaves in the literal sense of the world to Allah.
god does not exist based on whether children innately or adults believe in the existence of god. He exists because of all that we can see around ourselves and within ourselves.
+sham va _"I think islamo phobic atheist Rob"_ Really? Islam-O-Phobia, where Islam is a political ideology and a phobia is a brain malfunction and you claim Islam is a brain malfunction?
People tend to believe in God because Evolution tuned our brain to see agency everywhere! So you made an accurate observation ...the explanation you inferring is wrong!
Socrates Son So if evolution tuned our brain to see agency, then it must have a benefit in survival and reproduction. Don't you agree? If you agree, then in that case Atheists/Agnostics shouldn't oppose the idea of a Creator and ridicule it because it helps in survival and reproduction. Also if your theory is correct then why Atheists/Agnostics exist?
The way Evolution tuned our brain to see agency everywhere was not directed to the survival value in believing in God. Rather to avoid predators. I will give you an example although that instinct was innate to us long before we even evolve to humans! (All animals got this) The individuals that where hearing something move in the woods and thought it was the wind but in reality was a tiger those individuals died out! You can test the truth of what i say your self now! If something moves near your feet ...what is the first idea comes instantly in your mind? That it is a snake or a spider ...It is never the wind! Although in reality is always the wind! ------- Atheist and agnostic exist because our intelligence overcame our primitive intuitions!
Socrates Son The way Evolution tuned our brain to see agency everywhere was not directed to the survival value in believing in God. Rather to avoid predators. *There is a contradiction in your above statement. You said it was not directed to survival and then in the next sentence you said it was to avoid predators. Avoiding predators is itself survival.* *I didn't understand what you were trying to convey by giving the example of wind. Elaborate further.* Atheist and agnostic exist because our intelligence overcame our primitive intuitions! *According to evolution, natural selection caters for survival and reproduction. So is it primitive for natural selection to tune human minds to believe in God?* *But is that intelligence of Atheists/Agnostics helping them to survive and reproduce better?*
+hamza zulfi _"if evolution tuned our brain to see agency, then it must have a benefit in survival and reproduction"_ I guess you are a Muslim because you ahve no clue what evolution is and what the processes are. No, evolution is not goal driven. Why can't people like you grasp that? _"in that case Atheists/Agnostics shouldn't oppose the idea of a Creator"_ Why don't you ask, instead of embarrassing yourself? No! No! Never! A person who does not have a god-belief is not driven by evolution. There is no good reason to believe gods or goddesses exist - so I don't.
It was not directed to the survival value in believing in God rather the survival value of avoiding predators! Believing in God is a side effect! ---- What is the first idea that comes in your mind when something moves near your foot? agency ...or not agency?
No evidence for the claim - but demanding evidence for the rejection of the claim. Pathetic. I have shown in several videos that kids do NOT have a god belief and that there is at least one study which definitely and decisively shows exactly this. So why lie about this again and again? Kids look for connections, purpose and function. All that adults do is apply a shape and call this thing "god". I thought this was silly as a kid and never jumped into this god thing.
Stop Spamming You’re a special kind of ignoramus, aren’t you? Did you even hear what they said? You’re ironically spamming Muslim pages for years, yet you still think that any Muslim will fall for your disgusting trap? Learn philosophy of science. Learn first principles. Learn self-evident truth. You don’t even know the basics of science, yet you act like an expert. You live a sad life. You want a more detailed answer? Go back to Hamza Tzortzis’ argument, if you’re sincere.
Im so greatful im muslim Alhamdulillah
Im become so better person since i fo fast and praying
Alhamdulillah Ya Allah
Allah Akber
WHY CANT EVERY CONVO AT SPEAKERS CORNER BE LIKE THIS! CALM AND PROFESSIONAL!
Just watch Mr Shabir, every video I've seen of him has been absolutely civil, edifying, and we'll worth it.
I followed n watched shabir videos debate since 2007..he is still one of the best debater at speakers corner..respect n love from Indoyemen (Indonesian Yemeni)
'innate fear of falling'
tell that to my 1 year old. He's fearless.
Danke Alamien haha my 9 month old too :D
I am the person with the eye patch.
*Innate* means inborn and naturally occurring. Something being innate means that human infants are born with it.
Human infants are born with only two innate fears: that of falling and of loud noises and EVERYTHING else is learned.
A child could well lose this innate fear by age 1 year ( like your son for example ) BUT he was born with that innate fear in him. An infant will have developed much by 1 year of age from birth.
They call it the *Palmar Grasp Reflex*. You are probably familiar with the incredible grip possessed by even tiny babies ?
There is example of it in this video: czcams.com/video/jXJLaGguQiU/video.html
It is relevant to this argument because Shabir was suggesting that human infants are born with an innate awareness of God. There is no reason to believe that.
@@digglyda - to say there is no reason means you have looked at all the studies carried out on the subject and found that none point to the idea of believing in God to be innate. This means you are either ignorant of the sources available or for your own bias, ignore those sources because therr are plenty of studies that had been carried out which give plenty of reasons why belief in God is innate. This means there are reasons to believe it, so that makes your claim redundant.
@@digglyda actually they don't have any fear until 1+ year old
Thank you for sharing. Allah give you rewards for that.
Allah guide us all
Ameen
LONG LIVE BROTHER SHABIR!
Salaam brother enjoy listening to you and your ✋ work 💯🌹❤️💖❤️🌹
And [mention] when your Lord took from the children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants and made them testify of themselves, [saying to them], "Am I not your Lord?" They said, "Yes, we have testified." [This] - lest you should say on the day of Resurrection, "Indeed, we were of this unaware." Quran 7:172
So direct your face toward the religion, inclining to truth. [Adhere to] the fitrah of Allah upon which He has created [all] people. No change should there be in the creation of Allah. That is the correct religion, but most of the people do not know.Qur'an 30:30
God bless you shabir yusuf
The title is great....I never thought such word in Philosophy.
Even the word "Origin, why we here?, what the purpose of life?,what is consciousness" is also default position to find an answer.
A fundamental question.
38:20 I am sorry Mr. Mustafa, but sophisticated algorithms does not mean it can not be understood, you just have to look at how the machine made the decision. To what attribute higher preference was given. And the choice here is a selection from different possibilities with varying degrees of preferences in all possible variables. The machine generates a value system and finds a solution, although from such a design, anyone can see that the choice is not absolute in terms of value, but rather a relative value preference choice, may be that is why he is saying that it is non-understandable. Actually it shows a weakness in the design of the programming, that the program can not account for such a complex myriad. Indirectly it also shows how great the programming of Allah is that he has input into the human brain. Allah is Akbar, far, far above all being compared to him.
37:08 Br Shabir establishes why the definition of the nature of god must come from god himself because we with our limitedness can not establish his truth in the best form because of our limitedness, necessitating communication from the higher being to us, thus actually indirectly establishing the necessity and validation of revelations(Quran). Br. Shabir Genius. None of us could have come up with this idea. He also refers to whether if such a being exists, is it possible that he can be anything other than one; in order to be absolute, that being can not be anything other than one and unique. Maashallah, Br. Shabir, thank you.
G Hossain
Yes, Revelation from Allah is a necessity. Why? Because humans crave communication and the One who created humans have built in this desire.
Also the same movie (Cast Away) that Mustafa pointed out highlights this fact very clearly that a deserted human will desire for some communication with other people.
Moreover, from an Islamic perspective we know that Adam AS became sad and lonely after a while (even in Paradise) because there were no other humans whom he could relate/communicate to.
Actually the main reason is that with our limited understanding and faculties, when we try to come up with a definition and limit of those definitions, we are going to form only speculative assessments. As Br Shabir was saying, let's make a definition of this supreme being, let's put into the hat of this definition which we think will be suitable, and then he points out that definitely it is only going to be speculative, and not absolutely true, because our knowledge and our experiences are only limited. So this ultimate being must define himself for us who he is, thus necessitating a communication from him to us, otherwise we would not be guided to the truth; one of the primary purpose of the quran is to guide us to the truth of reality(al haq) and that includes the reality of who Allah swt is. Thus if human beings had come up with a book trying to define reality, it would be formed from speculative knowledge and thus would be incomplete and thus by nature would have contradictions; that is another of the properties of the quran that authenticates its veracity: lack of any contradiction to any form of truth we may establish either through science, or pure logic and rationality; if there may seem like there is a contradiction it is because our knowledge on that matter is not yet complete: for example how the universe will meet its end; will it end or will it exist forever. Science says that it may become a very cold space with zero energy and zero entropy, but quran says that it will come to an end; since we do not yet have that knowledge, quran may look to be on shaky grounds, but it is only because our knowledge of the future is incomplete, not because of the quran and it's validity.
G Hossain
Thanx for the reply but I didn't disagree with Shabir.
What is your view on free will? According to Sam Harris it's just an illusion because of cause and effect, all our decisions are based on prior events, how does Islam understand free will?
Brother Shabbir. When are u in speakers corner next. I would like to meet you someday. ☺
In Sha Allah we are planning to go back on the 29th of July, just watch out for the video, we normally upload to let every one know.
Sunday 2nd September inshallah he is coming
Khalid Hakimi ...thanks guys... Much appreciated
Allah razi olsun ❤
What moustafa is saying at 38:00 is wrong. Machine learning algorithms cannot produce novel ideas or data. Machine learning algorithms simply take in already existing data and run it through the algorithm to produce predictions.
Masha allah
What brother shabir is trying to say is this: in order to study any subject there must be a starting point, ie, a default position (thesis) and establish parameters/criterion thereon to prove/disprove the thesis!
Again, moustafa failed to understand shabir! If there is a CREATOR (which TRANSCEND SPACE AND TIME), HOW to establish (what KIND of evidence should we be looking for) that there is a creator? And, WHY would the CREATOR communicate with us? Only the CREATOR can give the answers to both questions!
So, what kind of evidence should we be looking for?! Physical evidence?! Science are limited to materialistic world and only explain the mechanism of the natural world not meta-physic! Alternatively, we can consider testimonies contain in holy scriptures of every religions (especially abrahamic beliefs)! If testimonies contradicts itself then you can dismiss that religion altogether!
^^
Is there difference between truth and falsehood?
Do humans have the ability to differentiate between truth and falsehood?
Is truth independent of what humans wish to believe or is truth a human concept that they created and shape as they wish?
Does human judgement achieve the full potential of judgement? Hence no further judgment is necessary?
Is truth fully achieved and decided upon through such judgement?
What else is there?
Isnt it more beneficial for humans themselves that a higher judgement is made which achieves the full potential of truth?
Perhaps by the source which defined truth and falsehood for humans.
If no higher judgment exists, are humans limited to their own judgement.
Should humans accept human judgement as a valid and final one even if falsehood was elevated and truth depressed?
Is human judgement all there is?
Does it achieve the full potential?
Asalamu Alaykum,
I think that the only common standard to began the proposition would be to asses the evidence by temporarily accepting each premise and examine if it may or may not satisfy the claim. I don’t see any other way?
Unfortunately there are more than one party talking, so you can’t hear the person who is engaged with brother shabeer, I know it’s difficult, but I hope we keep that in mind to narrow the discussion to one party, jazak allah Alf Khair.
Great to see the Egyptian Jeff Goldblum (Mustapha) in speakers corner. A mind which applies to logic and reason. Great to watch a respectable two way discussion rather than the normal shouting contests in speakers corner
It's like yesterday woow time is fast
I thought that was Abur Rahman Green for a second ha.
🤣🤣🤣
42:07 a non serious philosophy to these important questions. That the transcendent and imminent are the same. Absolute bs. What is his evidence to support this contention. None. Because it is counterintuitive.
The 2009 Ryan Report found that thousands of children were savagely raped or molested in these homes, while thousands more were beaten and starved and forced to work. Boys described nights of terror, lying in bed waiting for priests to come and molest them. "In some schools a high level of ritualized beating was routine," the report said. A new scandal has rocked the church, with the recent discovery that up to 4,000 infants and children - many malnourished and poorly treated - had been buried in unmarked graves at homes for unwed mothers run by Catholic nuns.
While xtians roleplay about invisible zombie Jews and magic, their priests keep molesting children.
Religion is disgusting and dangerous. Don't let them say they come in peace, they only want power over you.
How could the transcendental being and mankind be unified in excistence if the human can’t utilise The characteristics of the transcendent being. The conversation was going somewhere until it was disrupted by this philosophical ignorance.
it was not an axiom, it was a hypothesis that there is a creator, and then the evidence will support or refute this hypothesis: thats what br shabir was getting at.
G Hossain
Actually brother I think belief in Allah is an axiom/1st principle from which people form a world view. And there is nothing wrong with it because many Atheists/Agnostics also ascribe to an axiom/1st principle which is Philosophical Naturalism.
No an axiom is a given truth, however we know what might be axiom in one part of the universe may not be so in another part of the universe, so even these axioms are not absolute in nature. Existence of god is no axiomatic, it must be derived at. And you will not have absolute evidence for existence of god, because the current reality can be explained through natural mechanisms and phenomenons. So belief in god is actually a rational position rather than an absolute certainty position (although because of certain reasons, the proof of god is so strong, that it will be counterintuitive and contrary to sound intelligence and logic to actually not accept the existence of Allah)
axiom is not 1st principle, axiom is something that is automatically true. Like 2+2 will always equal 4.
G Hossain
I think The word axiom is used in mathematics while in Philosophy it is 1st principle.
G Hossain
Actually the belief in Allah is a self evident truth because humans start with it. When humans start to grow and are confronted with conflicting ideologies then I think it becomes a rational position.
40:40 Yes, Allah is full of knowledge, high in wisdom. Do we know or does he know better. If he has communicated with us, who are we to say, we are so lowly, how likely is it that such greatness would communicate. The answer lies in what is being communicated, unless you investigate it, how can you reject whether such a communication even took place or not. Inshallah, the holy quran, then gives you the answers.
46:35 brother shuboor gave him nightmares😂
Lol is the brother in the blue shirt didnt know shabir ? I think he need to watch speakers corner video first before going there and giving dawah.
It’s okay not to know Shabir, humble yourselves with the Muslims, that’s what Allah a SWT asks us to do
Isn't innate belief in a Creator also proven by the oxford study? Why are these atheists not agreeing with the scientific/intellectual world?
Green Homestead Atheist have selective bias. They ignore information that doesn’t confirm to their desires, and only accept twisted “reason” and “evidence” that confirm their ideology.
Where the piret come from ? 😄
Lol that pirate...
default position is there is a creators.
our rationality and awareness is a dependent facility, we don't possess it forever, and we do not possess it as part of our essence or nature, but rather depend on physical means, in this case our brain, to become cognizant and form ideas. So even our intelligence is nothing more than merely a blessing from god. We are slaves in the literal sense of the world to Allah.
god does not exist based on whether children innately or adults believe in the existence of god. He exists because of all that we can see around ourselves and within ourselves.
42:45 br shabir just destroyed the bogus contention.
I think islamo phobic atheist Rob recording the conversation. Did brother Shabir lose his weight?.
+sham va
_"I think islamo phobic atheist Rob"_
Really? Islam-O-Phobia, where Islam is a political ideology and a phobia is a brain malfunction and you claim Islam is a brain malfunction?
Stop Spamming
And what does the letter "O" represent in Islam-o-phobia?
Shabir whats the evidence 4 ur argument.
People tend to believe in God because Evolution tuned our brain to see agency everywhere! So you made an accurate observation ...the explanation you inferring is wrong!
Socrates Son
So if evolution tuned our brain to see agency, then it must have a benefit in survival and reproduction. Don't you agree?
If you agree, then in that case Atheists/Agnostics shouldn't oppose the idea of a Creator and ridicule it because it helps in survival and reproduction.
Also if your theory is correct then why Atheists/Agnostics exist?
The way Evolution tuned our brain to see agency everywhere was not directed to the survival value in believing in God.
Rather to avoid predators.
I will give you an example although that instinct was innate to us long before we even evolve to humans! (All animals got this)
The individuals that where hearing something move in the woods and thought it was the wind but in reality was a tiger those individuals died out!
You can test the truth of what i say your self now!
If something moves near your feet ...what is the first idea comes instantly in your mind?
That it is a snake or a spider ...It is never the wind!
Although in reality is always the wind!
-------
Atheist and agnostic exist because our intelligence overcame our primitive intuitions!
Socrates Son
The way Evolution tuned our brain to see agency everywhere was not directed to the survival value in believing in God. Rather to avoid predators.
*There is a contradiction in your above statement. You said it was not directed to survival and then in the next sentence you said it was to avoid predators. Avoiding predators is itself survival.*
*I didn't understand what you were trying to convey by giving the example of wind. Elaborate further.*
Atheist and agnostic exist because our intelligence overcame our primitive intuitions!
*According to evolution, natural selection caters for survival and reproduction. So is it primitive for natural selection to tune human minds to believe in God?*
*But is that intelligence of Atheists/Agnostics helping them to survive and reproduce better?*
+hamza zulfi
_"if evolution tuned our brain to see agency, then it must have a benefit in survival and reproduction"_
I guess you are a Muslim because you ahve no clue what evolution is and what the processes are. No, evolution is not goal driven. Why can't people like you grasp that?
_"in that case Atheists/Agnostics shouldn't oppose the idea of a Creator"_
Why don't you ask, instead of embarrassing yourself? No! No! Never! A person who does not have a god-belief is not driven by evolution.
There is no good reason to believe gods or goddesses exist - so I don't.
It was not directed to the survival value in believing in God rather the survival value of avoiding predators!
Believing in God is a side effect!
----
What is the first idea that comes in your mind when something moves near your foot?
agency ...or not agency?
The guy needs 2 patches so u cant see him roll hes eyes
I'm the guy with the eye patch.
I'm sorry, what do you mean ?
.
Lol Shabir entertain too much people here stick with the red shirt brother please he is so close to mutual understanding rather than this new Ash guy.
That's not true if U put a baby on the bed it tries to get off and has no fear.
Ive never neliebed god i remembee when i was 1 and didnt wanna go park i was a lil down that day my fave show wasnt on
Prove 2 me whwt a bab6 thinks
Take contact of musthapa bhai
talk too much nonsence....😇
No evidence for the claim - but demanding evidence for the rejection of the claim. Pathetic.
I have shown in several videos that kids do NOT have a god belief and that there is at least one study which definitely and decisively shows exactly this. So why lie about this again and again?
Kids look for connections, purpose and function. All that adults do is apply a shape and call this thing "god". I thought this was silly as a kid and never jumped into this god thing.
Stop Spamming You’re a special kind of ignoramus, aren’t you? Did you even hear what they said? You’re ironically spamming Muslim pages for years, yet you still think that any Muslim will fall for your disgusting trap? Learn philosophy of science. Learn first principles. Learn self-evident truth. You don’t even know the basics of science, yet you act like an expert. You live a sad life. You want a more detailed answer? Go back to Hamza Tzortzis’ argument, if you’re sincere.