Kitfox vs RANS S-21 Outbound
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- čas přidán 28. 06. 2024
- UPDATE 1: The RV-15 is now a thing! Here is my initial take on it: • RV-15! What we know.
UPDATE 2: Spoiler alert, my kit arrived and I'm well on my way to completion. Check that out here: • RANS S-21 Build
I compare my two finalists in my research to buy a kit bushplane: the Kitfox Super Sport Series 7 and the RANS S-21 Outbound. See which one I choose!
Honorable mentions:
Carbon Cub
Glasair Sportsman
Zenith
Sling TSI
Just Highlander
From the age of 8 I wanted to build a Lancair. So see what changed my mind and led to my final decision. My deposit is in!
Intro 0:00
How Did We Get Here? 0:25
Honorable Mentions 1:38
The Finalists 2:24
Categories 3:00
Factory Support 3:10
Performance 4:13
Construction 5:37
Cost 7:56
The Big Reveal 8:10
Backcountry Training 8:41
Outro 8:57
Thanks to Bryan from the Experimental Aircraft Channel for some footage. Check out is channel here: / experimentalaircraftch...
Having built an S-21 (180hp Titan) with over 60 hrs on it now, I disagree with your comments about the Kitfox winning the aesthetics and controls category. With the dorsal fin I think the aesthetics of the S-21 is even better, particularly with it's clean wing and single strut. As to flight controls the S-21 is about perfect with very light and well harmonized controls. It flys very much like several RV models I have flown. The performance of the S--21 was the reason I went with it and especially the nearly 4:1 speed ratio, which is almost unheard of, not mention the weight carrying ability and the baggage room. It's fast enough to be a viable X-country plane and slow enough to go anywhere I want in the Idaho back country.
Thank you for the great comment. Now that I’m a lot more familiar with the RANS, you’re absolutely right. I’m glad we both made the right decision. I’m glad we’re in the same strong community. Can’t wait to fly.
Just subscribed. Looking forward to your build videos!
Thanks, Alan! Me too haha
Just found your channel....looking forward to seeing how your build progresses eventually and details on your engine choice. I'm with you on tried and true oil/air-cooled simplicity. Would love to eventually see a video like this on your engine choice...exciting times!
Welcome aboard! Thanks for the comment. I'm still planning an engine video, though full disclosure, I know a little less about engines than airplanes. I'll do my best! P.S. my engine is on backorder, but should arrive at the perfect time for mounting... Stay tuned! -Steve
Very cool, I’m a few years out from starting down the same path so I’m excited to see how your build goes and can’t wait to see what performance you get out of the outbound!
That's exciting! I'm learning a lot from a few other CZcamsrs documenting their builds. I haven't figured out how detailed I want to make my build videos...Leaning towards quick updates rather than "How To" since I'm a first time builder. Either way, happy to have you aboard and good luck on your way to your build.
Helped build 2 rans aircraft, phenomenal support. Recommend practicing riviting on scrap sheet aluminium. It is a unique skill.
Folding wings are nice if you need to trailer the bird. Having helped in building two kitfox 4 series. Fun time, bothe are great aircraft, but I agree in your choice. Add about 200 hours to factory build time. Avionics and wiring always take longer than expected. Join EAA, fun group lot of grat help when you need it.
I visited the RANS factory last year and met Randy & Michele and got a tour of the factory and a demo flight. Can't go wrong with the Outbound. She flies great and the RANS team are great people.
So great to hear! Thanks for the note.
Looking forward to watching your build, I think you made a good choice I am also 6’4 and I did the demo flight in the 21, it has plenty of room and comfort is awesome along with how it flew. It definitely on the my list after I get done building the S7 I have
Oh awesome, that's great to hear! Good luck on your S-7!
I will absolutely follow your channel. I really like the way you broke it down.
Thanks Franz!
Great choice! I'm building my second RANS now. The first one was the S-10, and I'm starting to cover my S-7S now. The RANS factory support is excellent and the builder community is also very helpful. Looking forward to hearing about your build progress.
A repeat customer! I love hearing that. I wonder if I'll have the energy to tackle a second at some point. I sure hope so. I'm enjoying the build so far. Thanks for the comment and enjoy your build!
Oooohhh I've been wanted someone to break this down for a long time!
Me too, ha! Thanks for the comment!
Nice video thanks for sharing costs nobody does that and I wish they would!!
I can’t wait to watch you build this plane while I sit on my couch thinking about how I should build one.
Ha! Glad I could help. Not sure how I’ll document the build, but I’m sure I’ll make it...informative? There are a lot of great folks document their builds, so I don’t have pressure. I plan to focus on the bigger picture process of things rather than the rivet pulling. We’ll see. Stay tuned and thanks for the comment, Tim!
Great choice. I'm looking forward to your build and taildragger certification flying. Fly safely and have blue skies!!
Thanks David! Me too ;)
looking forward to the unboxing and build videos.
I knew right out of the gate which one you would pick, based on your experience and history. Good choice, you will LOVE IT!
Nice work! I’ll hold you to it!!!
This is all really good information. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching and for the note!
Thanks for the informative match up. I was looking @ Kitfox, due to the folding wings feature. Now am looking @ the Rams S7 Aircraft.
Admitted armchair aviation buff here ... I do love anything aviation especially military aviation, firefighting aviation, and backcountry aviation. Thank you for your service! Looking forward to exploring your content and watching future content.
Welcome to Central Oregon! We live in Sisters and have a small ranch in Southern Oregon.
Of course ... thumbs up, commented, and subscribed!
The much deeper chord on the 21 wing compared to a Kitfox, does good things! The Highlander and the Kitfox are limited in that department, due to the folding wings and legal highway width requirement. Flaperons kinda suck too, discrete flaps are much better. You chose well!
Good insight! I wondered why the Kitfox has a longer wingspan...interesting. Thanks for the info!
Great post, I’m struggling with this debate too, awesome job laying it out. Geoff at Aerosport is a friend and after seeing what he’s done for the RV-10, I know his plans for the S-21 are awesome and their products are top notch
Hi Chris, thanks for the kind words. It's a fun debate. I've been following Geoff's work and I'm about to order everything he has for the RANS! I hope you go with the S-21 also. Let me know!
Good luck with your build!
Thanks, Mikael! Almost done…ish
You are in for SUCH AN ADVENTURE!!! Tail wheeling is an absolute blast! I fly a RANS S6S and really enjoy it. I have flown a fair number of other tailwheel aircraft ( not the KitFox yet) and have found the overall flight/handling/fun characteristics of the S6S to be carefree. It is easy to fly and easy in which to learn many of the skills/tricks/techniques of tailwheel flying. I have no doubt that the "Outbound" will be fun as well. I have a friend who owns a KitFox that I hope to get some time in soon so I reserve opinions on it till I have an opportunity to fly it. One thing I would say is that all of the pilots who have flown with me in the RANS are amazed at the "lightness" of the control input and response. They all have a tendency to over-control the plane at first until they get accustomed to "her" response. My suggestion to you would be to not pay so much attention to the "numbers" : power settings/airspeeds at first but fly her by "feel"; sight (how does the sight picture appear), sound; set the power by engine sound and adjust the power by how the sight picture appears/changes and, feel; are the controls crisp and responsive (higher speed) moderate, midspeed ie, approach speed, slightly mushy and sluggish ie short final/backside of the power curve. Glancing at the instruments occasionally to confirm your feelings is ok but the majority of your attention should be outside... Just like in an "oldstyle" dogfight, if you loose sight of your objective its hard to play the game... Have fun and if I can be a resource to you I am an instructor so please call me to chat and let me know how you are doing; Stoney Truett - 803-603-1140.
Excellent review. Thanks.
Thanks for the good feedback!
It's been a long time since I've accepted someone's invite to subscribe hahaha... This guy definitely deserves it! I'll be going on a similar adventure in the next few years so I'll be watching on!
Tricked ya! Welcome aboard!
S-21 is FAST for this segment of Kitplane! I am thinking of building an S-21 with the Viking 195 Hp 1.5L Honda Turbo. I would use this for light cross country/backcountry work.
I'm Former AH-1S Snake Driver (and Maint Officer) and then worked for 3 major airlines. Left the airlines for fulltime trading about 17 years ago...so now i have plenty of time for builds. I have had my A&P License since the late 80s so I can build and maintain about anything...looking forward to an S-21 build hopefully before the end of the year!
A viking engine!? Very interesting. I would love to see some future CZcams vids of that build and flying process. If I ever get to build, the viking would be a serious consideration for for the powerplant
I've been to the Rans facility, met Randy and most the others at one of their annual fly ins.. they defitnly got it going on.. same owner since its conception...Great planes..
You made the right choice between the two. Paul will be a good guy to train with at Stick and Rudder, or any of their instructors.
Good choice. Good luck with the building, and get as much help as you need. It's an adventure. RV9A builder.
I live two hours from Hays, KS, and am also a retired military aviator looking for a personal aircraft. Glad I found your channel. Looking forward to your build!
Welcome aboard!
You made a very good choice! Fabric and wood are exponentially harder to take care of, and as an A&P mechanic, a pilot, and someone with a high performance tail dragger endorsement, you won’t go wrong with the Rans. I had a Murphy Super Rebel until recently and it was pretty fantastic with a 350 h.p. Lycoming O-540 stuck up front. Unfortunately, like most men’s dreams, the evil bitch from the north ruined that one. Some things I learned about back country flying, you can never have enough horsepower, gas, or usable weight! Go with the biggest and best engine you can afford. I am not a fan of the Rotax, worked on them installed on MQ-1’s and they are technically a throw away engine. Glitzy avionics are fantastic, steam gauges do the same thing. Use top drawer tools and materials during your build, don’t be a doofus and go cheap! Cry once and smile forever. After an especially trying build evolution, have a knowledgeable person look over your work, don’t have an ego about something you might or might not have fucked up, a third dimension failure WILL kill you. CORROSION PROOF EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!! If you have any questions about methods and techniques for lifetime corrosion proofing aluminum do not hesitate to contact me, been there done that. If you have any riveting, dimpling, stretching or shrinking questions, ask, again, been there done that. DEBURR, DEBURR, DEBURR! Make any hole you are about to fill smoother than a prom queens thigh! Cracks start where there are burrs and acute transitions in metal! Don’t be that guy that thinks just because Rans made the hole that it doesn’t demand your attention.The Rans is pretty much a stand alone build with the kits being very well finished, pretty much click and paste with today’s manufacturing techniques, especially since you don’t have to be a maestro with a palm drill anymore! All the holes are laser cut and everything lines up perfectly! Congratulations, you made a great choice!
Mucka, oh man thanks for the great comment! Loved reading that. You and I would get along well. I wish I had your build experience but I appreciate the advice. It’s inline with what I’ve heard so far. I wasn’t planning on corrosion proofing the aluminum away from the steel since I live in the desert, but I’ll reconsider. Thanks again for the words!
@@CLEAREDDIRECT Where in the “desert” might I ask?
About you comment “I wasn’t planning on corrosion proofing,” yes you are...
Bend, OR
@@CLEAREDDIRECT I was a maintenance controller for Evergreen Intl Airlines for 5 years in McMinnville. Did you know Dell Smiths son Michael, as you were both F-15 jockeys?
Congratulations! I came to the exact same conclusions for exactly the same reasons. Looking forward to your updates. Thanks.
Nice, Trent! Have you ordered your kit or a factory-built yet? I just ordered my options today as RANS is starting to produce my kit. Time to study the instructions and build my shop! Oh and look for used Clecos...
I had put together an order about year ago, but had a health issue (now resolved) that made me back off, so just getting ready to step up to it again. Unlike you, I haven't settled on engine choices yet.
Welcome to Oregon and thank you for your service brother. 68D and John day river is a fun route over to Wallowa lake as well!
Right on, thank you!
As an older than you former Air Force guy myself, I applaud your choice in the Rans. If I had to choose, I would also go with the S21. This could be because my buddy is already building a Kitfox 7 STi or it could be that I can buy the S21 as an SLSA and not have to build a darn thing! Can't wait to see your plane finished. Congratulations on your decision (and retirement!)
Thanks for your service! I totally understand not wanting to build. It’s a huuuge undertaking. But this has been a lifelong dream. I’m sure it’s not my last build!
I went with the Coyote II trike with the 912 uls and have enjoyed every minute of flying her...I know you're going to love your plane as well.
I know I will too. I’m glad you’ve had such a great experience with your Coyote! Thanks for the note 👍🏼
New subscriber here. I’ve thought a lot about the same stuff. My decision is between the S-21 and the Zenith super duty. Still 2 years out, but I will watch the build👍👍
Thanks for the sub. You might have been my 1,000th! I think your decision will become clear over the next 2 years. I’m not trying to steer you one way or another...really look at your mission requirements. Your two choices of aircraft fit two pretty different mission sets. Let me know when you decide or if I can help
I enjoyed your video on the two planes their cool but have gone up in price in the last ten years, your a cool person thankyou for your service to our great country and good luck on all your adventures I think either one of these planes will get you where you want to go.
Thank you Clarence! Yes, these types of planes are in big demand right now. Hence building vs buying... Cheers!
Half way through, I said, he clearly picked the Rans, and I still haven't watched the end of the video yet! Just subbed as well!
Spoiler... you’re right! Clearly a lot of other people are coming to the same conclusion. I’m sure Kitfox isn’t hurting too bad. They have a very loyal following and a great group of airplanes!
Good call man. The Kitfox "support" and manual are not what they are all cracked up to be. Looking forward to seeing you build this.
Good to know, 7KF! Thanks for the comment
Great choice though I know little of either airplane. Your content and presentation are concise...comm brevity is not something many CZcamsrs understand. Good luck. I'll be watching.
Thanks, Curtis. Comm brevity is a trait I value airborne too. I appreciate the feedback.
Very good explanation.
Rudder build workshop “to get you off on the right foot”
In all seriousness I’m super excited for you and to learn about the Rans as you build it!
Ha! Didn't even catch that one... Thanks for the comment and I'm clearly excited too! I should get the kit in May...
More right rudder!!!
I came up with the idea for the D spar on my own. Cool to see it wasn't an original idea. I love the one liner "the bird would lose".
Great choice! I have flown in both planes. I personally like the Rans S-21, it flies just like reviewed, is stable and dependable. I am finishing a Glasair 1, that was never finished. If I were in the market for a back country plane, it would be the Rans S-21. Good luck!
Awesome! Starting my tailwheel adventures in a 1976 Citabria!
Oh nice! Enjoy! Where are you doing your training?
Just make darn sure the Wood spars in the Citabria are in great shape, and have no compression cracks!!!!!!
Rans S21 all the way, great choice.
Thanks, George! Love getting these comments...
I think you underestimate the impact of push/pull tubes vs. cables. Night and day flying fun difference, and you'll notice when you fly the Kitfox at Stick and Rudder. As a Kitfox owner, I learned a lot I didn't know about the Rans from your video, so thanks for that!
Brian, thanks for the comment! I’m super happy to have a Kitfox owner join in. You’re right, I don’t know enough yet to be super authoritative on that topic. I’m glad I’ll have the Kitfox experience to weigh against the Rans. I hope I don’t regret my choice, but both seem to be really great airplanes. Where are you based?
Man, you just saved me a bunch of work. That answered so many questions I had. I would’ve picked the Rans as well on for the exact same reason. I’ll call them Monday. Maybe get on the list. 155 mph I believe you said and the useful load are big deals for me even tho I wanna STOL plane so it’s like you’re getting both. A traveler and back country flyer. I’ll subscribe and watch as it goes. And, thank you sir for your service 🙏🏻
Great, Scott! Glad it helped you out and that you came to the same conclusion I did. It’s such a versatile airplane. My build is going great. I hope those videos help you out down the road. Welcome aboard!
@@CLEAREDDIRECT you got your kit? I think I replied in the wrong place 🤔 And, thx!
@@57eleven1 yep, in May. Lots of build episodes…check them out!
@@CLEAREDDIRECT I’ll check them out now! I was thinking that it’d be a year but I guess this video is about a year old. My bad 🙄 lol
Well, I had typed a response and was almost done and closed the comment box by mistake trying to get the link to my builders log. Let’s see if I can get it completed this time.
My decision process has parallels to yours. I have waited for years for Vans to make a high-wing design as I like their philosophy and factory support level, but I am just not a low-wing pilot.
I finally gave up and was leaning towards a Kitfox, but really wanted all aluminum. I decided to attend the SportAir Van’s RV Assembly workshop and then decide on fabric high-wing or all aluminum low-wing (-12 or -14). During a break at the workshop, I mentioned to the instructor that I really wished Van’s had made a high-wing design. He asked if I had looked at the RANS S-21. I had barely heard of RANS and was not aware of the S-21. I took a look and was nearly hooked. However, I wanted to visit the factory as I did not want to buy a kit that might soon be an orphan.
It was another 15 months before I was able to get to the factory. After seeing the facility and talking with Randy and Michelle, I was confident it was a solid design and solid organization. So, I placed my deposit in July 2019 and picked up my kit in July of this year. The build is going well, but slowly as I typically get only 10-12 hours a week on it due to a number of issues, a bad back and broken leg being two of them. I am also priming all internal structure which is probably doubling my airframe build times. I have no doubt the factory can build one in 550 hours, but I think a first-time builder will take at least 800. I expect with the priming time added, I will be over 1,000 hours. Although, as a retired EE and former mechanic, I may be a little faster on the electrical and avionics and FWF than some. Hopefully, this will offset some of my slowness on the airframe and painting.
I am keeping a fairly detailed builder’s log using the EAA online application. I think this link will take you there if you want to check it out.
eaabuilderslog.org?s=N977MW
Sorry you had type your comment twice, but I sure appreciate you sticking with it. What a great comment. Thanks so much for sharing your link and posting on the EAA Builders Log. That is so incredibly helpful. Though it's tough waiting for my kit, it allows me time to study up and learn as much as I can from other builders. I'm following for sure. I'm really glad it sounds like we made the right decision on the Rans. Good luck and keep posting!
@@CLEAREDDIRECT I don’t think either would have been a wrong choice. I think both are good airplanes, but for me the RANS was a better fit.
Awesome choice! I haven’t put the deposit down yet on the kit but doing the rudder workshop in September 2021! Hopefully I can put my deposit down by then to get in line for the kit👍. I will definitely be following to see how your build goes, thanks for the video.
Hi Greg... I grew up with an Aaron Philpott in SoCal, any relation? Yes, get in the growing line and figure out the money later ;) I'll put out a video from my rudder build in March. Good to have ya onboard!
@@CLEAREDDIRECT No relation that I know of, we are all in TN & TX
Did you ever fly with Col. Mike Starr, good friend of mine that grew up together, flew 15's, 16's, & 22's - recently retired out of Vance AFB - with DoD?
Just subscribed, looking forward to your vids!
Thanks, Ryan! Some random stuff coming before my build...
Great video; I appreciate your assessment. You're three years ahead of me with this decision. I'm heading to the USA (from Australia) in your 2024 summer and will visit the Rans and Kitfox factories. I'm most keen on these two makes but have not decided which is for me. Keep up the good work with your channel.
Oh wow! Super exciting times. Are you settling down in the states or just coming for a visit? You should do some Idaho flying with us this (northern) summer
@@CLEAREDDIRECT Yes we're very excited. We'll be on a ten week holiday with our then-seven month old son, road tripping around your many amazing national parks in the western states. RANS in Kansas will be as far east as we go. Super keen to check them out because the Australian market pales in comparison to USA's. Happy flying :)
I already know that you have chosen the rans, so, all I have to say is , "VERY NICE CHOICE". With the float option it would be a better choice for me here in Alaska.🙏
I have flown 180 different types. I only mention this because pilots are very opinionated even about airplanes they haven’t flown. You made the right choice by far.
Ha! You got me there ;)
Great video, you've got a new subscriber. I am a home builder in waiting. (one more kid to get though college) I like the Rans S-20 Raven, but with the 141 wing from the S-21. Increases useful load & range of the S-20 and saves more than $7K. Fuselage construction is tube & fabric rather than aluminum, but I like that. I also like the traditional flaps/aileron set up on on both Rans, rather then flaperons. Also like the Bearhawk 'Companion', a pared down 2 seat version of their 4-place, similar speed to the 21 with even greater useful load, but $5K more.
Thanks for the comment. I just checked out the Bearhawk, I had forgotten about them. Interesting stuff out of Austin. I like their new 6 place! Lots of great choices right now, looks like your timing is impeccable.
Great video I’ve been debating the highlander vs rans hope to pull the trigger on one of them after the first of the year.
Let me know which one you choose! Would love to hear your rationale.
Apparently my reward for hitting "Do Not Recommend" on videos of bikini-clad Eastern European women shooting semiautomatic rifles for three straight days is, CZcams finally recommending me a video about building an airplane. About damned time, CZcams. I finally feel seen.
Uh huh..... blame the algorithm ;) Thanks for stopping by!
Awesome video. It was deja vu for me. I ordered rans in early March after struggling with decision. I couldn’t get past the performance and specifically the wide range of performance. Also loved the all aluminum and couldn’t see myself building with wood, cloth and chemicals. Now I am doing like you and waiting. I had not heard of aerosport products so thank you for the reference!
Thanks Brandon! Congrats on taking the plunge. Is this your first build? I have a lot to learn...first to set up my garage, er shop! Keep in touch
Yes this is first project. Quite nervous about it to be honest but darn excited. Spending my time getting shop ready which is project in itself. Thanks again for the video - I feel fortunate to have found another person who is embarking on s21 build!
@@bfryar22 Same here. There's an S21 builders group on Facebook for more camaraderie...facebook.com/groups/588641295227813/
I knew you were picking the Rans, quite early... Or at least I knew which one id choose... Lol
Thanks for the video, I never realized how awesome the Rans is!
Yeah, big surprise, right?! Haha thanks for the comment…
I thought you would choose the Rans, well done!
Thanks, Brian!
I’m a big kitfox fan the folding wings is what makes it so cool. This Rans I’ve never heard of sounds like a beast.
Folding wings is a great option if you need them but you give up quite a lot...fuel capacity, max G-loading, cord length, and wheelbase (to fit on a trailer). This RANS is positioned perfectly between the Kitfox and the new RV-15 in a lot of ways! Thanks for the comment 🙌
I looked at both the Kitfox and Rans, and your checklist basically mirrored mine. I love the Rans, and really considered it. However, my strip is short and my son just started flight school, so I went with a Zenith. Maybe in 5 years or so we will transition to the Rans. I can't wait to watch your build and first flight!
Good choice! That’s super exciting for you and your son, congrats. Thanks for following along!
I am in the market for a taildragger do you think the zenair 701 is more or less forgiving than kitfox?
@@vracan the 701 is tricycle gear, not a taildragger.
@@AnonyMous-jf4lc you're right! I could have swore Ive seen them in taildragger config
You are right on with your choice! The Rans is a bigger, faster plane and worthy of your consideration. Nice going!
Thank you! It’s been a fun build so far. About 40% done…
U made a great choice, I used to fly a rans S-6 and I can say they make solid planes.
Excellent! Love hearing that.
Congrats on your selection. I have been flying for 35 years and just got my tail wheel endorsement a couple days ago. Long time coming. It was fun to fly again as opposed to flight management. Building a Sling TSI now with a couple buddies. Looking forward to flying that. Willie 91-05.
I’ve been watching MojoGrip’s Sling build. Looks like a great kit and support. Looking forward to that tail wheel endorsement this spring in Idaho. Hope I don’t embarrass myself too badly! Sheppard 01-05
It was humbling at first due to 30 knot winds, but once you see the picture it gets easier but never easy!
I met Mike in Torrence at the factory. Nice young man.
One you should have looked at is the Bearhawk Companion if you want side by side. I got a new 4-place last year and absolutely love it. It can be built from a kit or from scratch. Fuselage is fabric and steel tube so strong and light. Wing is aluminum so the airfoil holds its shape - very important for performance.
Good choice!
Thanks, Tom!
Good choice.
I bought and built a Rans S-7 Courier 37 years ago. Never looked back. They had excellent build manuals and even better factory support during the the build time. It had push pull actuators for aileron, flap and elevator control with cable linkage for the elevator trim.
Flew it for 20 years without incident.
All aluminum with no wood other than the floorboard and a shorter build time was instrumental in the choice over Kitfox.
Randy Schlitter took me for a flight at Oshkosh in a mid wing Sakota. I was sold.
Yes and both companies have a grumpy old man as a boss.
I may or may not have heard the same thing, ha!
Great video. Not sure you could wrong with either of those options. Its July 2022 today... Van's just unveiled their RV15 high wing taildragger. Be interesting to hear more of your thoughts on that as it develops
Following intently as a fellow Central Oregonian Private Pilot. .👍😎
Nice!!! Welcome aboard and see you in the pattern!
Great video! Super excited for your build. I chose the Just Aircraft Highlander. Hope to see you in Utah...
Absolutely, can't wait! Looking forward to checking out your channel too...
Check out the Zlin Norden for the future of STOL flying. This bird would be perfect in Utah! At 4:00. czcams.com/video/5Olmfj7O4Ec/video.html
@@andrewmorris3479 Or....keep your money stateside, just saying.
@@portnuefflyer Do you feel that way about the cars you purchase? The Norden makes a lot of the American made STOL aircraft look really bad especially at its price point. Why should it matter if it’s built in Napajedla or Boise? We’re all part of the human race and the love for STOL aviation can and should be found everywhere.
@@andrewmorris3479 It matters to some more then you apparently. Sending my money to Kansas, which I've done twice in the last 20+ years, for sure feels better to me. Homedale would also feel better.
Buy a Norden and show us all what a great plane it is, ( FOR REAL, see you at Mile Hi, and you can show me) not just in staged videos made by the company. It better land slow, loaded down with all the bells and whistles it has, "more stuff" seems to be their design motto, that and ripping off the Rans company way back when.......I'll never cut them any slack over that.
Thx for cool video. I think you made the right choice, the Rans seems to be a lot more of an "airplane". I remember when Kitfox (Avid Flyer) was just an infant, 2 cycle Rotec up front. It is amazing what people have in them now in terms of built hours and the overall cost. Good luck with your adventure.
Pawel, oh man, I didn’t realize the connection between the Avid and Kitfox, nice! Thanks for the comment, agreed!
@@CLEAREDDIRECT I did some more digging around, bit of a dream "virtual" built as I now live and fly in Indonesia. You should take a look at the Titan engine as well. Sure looks like Continental bought out Titan which is a clone of Lycoming 0-320/360. I saw some Continental guy proudly talk about the engine, how it steel trust washer and relocated oil filter........while I am looking at a Lycoming clone. I found it all sad in the end to tell you the truth. Some 15 years ago I was flying this crazy Russian built amphibian airplane Be 103. I was the first pilot in USA and the world really to fly it, production number 1. It was a certified airplane with mix of Russian and USA components. The engines were Continentals IO 360.....Well we had issues with the engines /props MT. I would loose control of props with oil in the yellow, too much bypass on the crank transfer bearing...Anyways their research facility was in delapitated ww2 hangar, junk all around. They had a Cessna 377 set up with some experimental engine, nothing became of that. Just a side story. I would also suggest that you built it light and simple. I have 16 000 flying hours, all weird stuff gliders, tow planes, cubs and the rest, most Cessnas.. spent 5 years flying ww2 T6 doing (sorry) simulated dog fights and aerobatic rides, flew piston DC3 in Puerto Rico and even got to fly P51 for an hour. Now for the past 10 years I have been flying Twin Otter on floats. I flew lots of Cessna 180/185. Some airline pilot's monsters with fire breathing motors....The best one was old 180 from Alaska, it was ugly, it was powered by old 0-470 and it had basic panel......I was a joy to fly. Ok rambling on now, but you are bit guilty as well. Now before falling asleep I am building S21 in my brain. It would be simple, light, decent used or overhauled 0 360 (can't get passed the "fake" Continental issue), nice composite prop, airspeed and oil pressure on the panel (ok going bit extreme here). I think waiting for the kit is also a benefit as by the time you get it rans will address some of the small issues and there are plenty of vids now of actual builds. Ok done, once again good luck with your project. Happy landings from Indonesia
I would have picked the rans too, the only tail dragger I’ve flown is the good old piper cub. Anyway great comparison and contrast. Liked
Thanks for the like and comment! My only TD experience was decades ago in an ol Stearman. Can't wait to 'scoot my butt' again haha
First I've heard of Rans giving a military discount. Good to know. Thanks.
I chose AirCam (though I did not build it, I’m a Flyer not a builder). Based on your criteria, you want to go fast, the AirCam is not for you as its really a 75 mph aircraft. But, it’s backcountry performance can’t be beat (with the big tires), and that second engine is amazing. You’ll land 15 minutes before me, but I never sweat water, canyons, cities and even night. Best of luck, see you out west.
Absolutely! Which engine do you have in your AirCam?
Great video! I’m gonna go S21 as well, love the all al construction, much shorter build time, bigger useful and mo speed! Im military as well, so good to know about the discount!
Im probably 5 years away from being able to start. 😟
Thank you for your service! Rans gives 3%. Not sure about Kitfox. Man, the wait so hard. Fingers crossed it's 6 months for me. Good luck to ya...
Thank for your service Brian. Same with me on wait time, need to pay off my Gyrocopter and, convince my wife that airplane is more important lol
Great video/comparison. Good choice as well. There is no information on your Channel on how to get in touch with you.
Hey Bryan! Thanks again for the content and good point. I should list my email. For now it’s steve@ClearedDirectResources.com
You made the right choice. I have a S-21 here in OZ about to start building. All the V7 kitfoxes I have seen are quite heavy in comparison. for all rag and tube. I flew more than 13000 km from Australia to Hays just to fly the only S-21 that was in existance at that time and it is the best flying aircraft I have flown. You should have gone for a fly at Rans the handling and performance was so good we put the deposit there and then. It took a year to get the kit but I am so happy with my choice. The parts and fittings quality they supply in the kit are extremely good. I am sure you wont be dissapointed at all. I looked at the Kitfox back in 2018 also the Highlander and by the time you get them here the dollars are very high with exchange rate and shipping and all of them would have ended up not too far in cost of each other. The cruncher for me was flying the S-21...do yourself a favor and go there and organise a demo flight even after putting a deposit on one. That will make you even surer about your decision. Welcome to the club :)
Oh man, that's some dedication! I'll definitely beg Randy for a flight in March when I'm out in Hays for the rudder build. Sounds like I made the right decision then... I hope you post your progress, mate. G'day
Hi Mark, I'm Adelaide-based and am interested to touch base with Australian S-21 owners prior to purchase. Did you find a cost-effective shipping option?
@@knottymatt Send me a email to kylecom3@gmail.com
I was attracted to the RANS factory tour video you reference in your video and I bumped into your channel. I am actually just a airplane dreamer that never flew anything but model airplanes (someday hopefully). I would choose the RANS also because I was very impressed with the CEO at RANS. A man whose engineering and manufacturing IQ seem to be at the top of the scale for my tastes. A healthy combination of high quality raw materials, expert machine shop fabrication, sleek design and more horse sense than love of the slide ruler. I also like the headroom offered by the 180 hp Titan engine. I don't know if the term "headroom" is used in aviation but in live sound reinforcement and guitar amplifier lingo, relates to having more power than needed so that the engine is less stressed to fly for extended period of time at a nice cruise speed. And last but not least I am a midwestern boy from Iowa and have to go with a Kansas product.
Thanks for your thoughtful comment! Dreamers are welcome here too...that's where we all started. Agreed on Randy. He's wicked smaaaaht. Unfortunately the Titan IO-340 will lose power as it climbs as opposed to the turbocharged Rotax 915iS. But I'm sticking with the Titan. Maybe I'll upgrade to an adjustable pitch prop down the road. Anyway, welcome aboard!
Wow, I knew in the 1st 15 seconds that you chose the Rans S21 Courier? Hmmm- how many people actually had to watch the video to know? And, it's the very first video of 'cleared direct' I've ever watched? Speed, build & cargo- duh! Congrats though! I didn't see you being strictly a sand bar lander- with a wife, kids, etc... Sure, fly fishing is great, but- once a year is not enough to buy a 36 year old design that's been refreshed over the decades...Besides, most FBO's have transportation so you can drive to that fly fishing river (pronounced: Reeve). Can't wait to see the build!
That’s what my Bonanza’s for! Glad you called the RANS! You’re right, the Outbound was a no brainer when I broke it down.
My neighbor just built one. It is his 6th airplane. Took 7 months. His other aircraft is a full acrobatic RV8. He picked the Rams for the useful load and cruise speed. Long flight from Dallas to Idaho.
Did your neighbor work on the S-21 full-time? I'm guessing no for an experienced builder to take 7 months, sounds part-time...?
Great video
Thank you Joe
Great choice, I'm about to put down a deposit on the S-21, though I want to put a 915iS in it, primarily for mountain flying capabilities.
Yeah I was tempted given the lighter weight and turbo perf up high, but 1) $10K more, 2) 40hp less (down low), and 3) Randy’s having a hard time keeping temps low (I’ve heard). Thanks for the comment and congrats on your deposit!
Yeah now that I've read the other comments the Titan is starting to look more appealing. What did they say your lead time would be for receiving the kit?
I would still consider the 915is. The latest Rotax Operating Manual just increased the Manifold Temperature limit to 80 °C (176 °F), I think it was 50°C (122 °F).
Good choice! Randy and Michelle are good folks, my dad ordered an S-21 kit last year (we’re looking at a July-ish delivery date) and we attended the rudder build class when he placed the order. The useful load and cruise speed were also the deciding factors for Dad as he plans to travel the US via plane with Mom when he retires.
Now I’m also considering a kit purchase in the next year or two and will likely go with the S21 with the trike gear (the yellow 215RD in the video was converted to Trike with a big tire kit when we visited the factory) unless Randy is finished designing and testing the 4 seat plans that he may or may not be working on.
Oooooo a 4-seater?!?! Color me interested. Something to compete with the RV-10 would be amazing. I'd love to build my family-hauler. Good luck to your Dad in his build and yours eventually. Please stop by central Oregon and say hi!
@@CLEAREDDIRECT Randy only mentioned it in passing while we were at lunch but I think we all know that there’s a market for a 4 place version of the S21. Thank you! If we’re up that way we’ll be sure to send a message.
@@Jake-ug2mf I’ll be at the rudder workshop March 19th!
@@CLEAREDDIRECT Sweet! You’ll really enjoy it! Randy and Michelle are great people and Eddie is a great teacher for the class, I really enjoyed doing the rudder workshop and I’m sure you will as well.
I thought you were going to to go with the Kitfox, but I totally think that you made the right choice :)
Nice to be at the start of your future build video. I am also looking to build an airplane. I am struggling to build a bush type plane and a single seat speedster type plane. I live near Kansas so Rans would be closer to me compared to the Kit Fox. The Kit Fox has been around for a while but has changed ownership hands many times. I saw the Kit Fox series 4 when they were a much smaller plane more of a heavy ultralight. I personally like the folding wing because I can store it in my garage and eliminate the hanger fees. That one feature is why I like Kit Fox and Highlander. I am leaning more toward the Highlander for build quality and it appears to be a better design, in my opinion. The Rans S21 is more like a Cessna being all metal and its higher speed. I can understand your selection as it looks to be an all around aircraft but not a true bush plane in my opinion. The Highlander is sporting a new engine in the Apex snowmobile engine similar to a Rotax with 150HP stock. It is also less expensive than traditional aircraft engines. The Apex reliability looks to be there like the Rotax which came from a snowmobile too. Look up Steve Henry who has perfected the design. I think the right decision is the one that is right for you. Don't let anyone talk you out of your decision especially since you just purchased. If you post build videos of the S21 I'll watch. Check out "Project Kit Fox" for a Series 7 build with the Apex engine.
Hi James, all great points! Thanks for the good comments. Yeah I went down the Apex rabbit hole on CZcams the other day. I love that these guys are putting a little pressure on Continental and Lycoming. That’s exciting that a Highlander build might be in your future. Thanks for watching and I’ll start the kit plane series in the next month or so. Cheers!
Unless you enjoy tinkering with engines the only source for a complete aircraft Yamaha is from Epex isn't exactly cheap although I would say you do get turbo performance cheaper then Rotax 915 at $40k+. Yamaha is talking about getting into aviation although no details on that If I were to guess the prices will be like Rotax. I like tinkering with engines and fuel injection have some experience with this I would say it probably acceptable in Stol type plane with low stall speeds take little more risk on the engine. Also looked at the AeroMomentum they are using Suzuki new engines they will build your engine mount if it's a new aircraft I saw owner in a video saying for free not sure if that is true still.
I had the opportunity to show a former F-22 demo pilot (Patrick W.) what a ski equipped Rans S-7S could do last year, I considered it a honor! At least he, and his 17,000 hour back country flying father didn't laugh out loud when I taxied up. They were a tough damn crowd, but they were impressed, and they also fly a Super Cub. Good choice on your part.
I know ManBear well! Great guy. He’d never laugh at anybody’s rig :)
@@CLEAREDDIRECT He's my new neighbor's brother, and anytime I get a new neighbor, I hope they like or at least tolerate airplanes and I won't get any complaints about my farm strip. How lucky is that?! He and the old man were visiting one day, and stopped by my place, we had a great time BS'ing, but it made me a bit nervous knowing those two were judging my landing earlier! But I nailed it and really did show them what the 7 could do, short and slow wise, on skis, uphill.
Good call. Check out West Desert Air Park in Utah ...
Wilco!
Agreed.
The rans just looks good. Maybe it’s the spring gear or the front body work. It’s just looks right.
C model escort gang!! 👍🏼
I’m leaning toward the Rams as well. One thing I like is the all metal so it doesn’t have to be hangered. I know a lot of people that leave fabric planes outside and have covers made though.
It’s been a great build so far. I’m really happy with my decision. Yes, the all-aluminum exterior is quite corrosion-resistant. Thanks for the comment!
Awsome vid as someone who is totally ignorant to planes (been on a plane twice in my life was super fun 2 prop float to a remote fishing hole) been looking into buying a plane for Mountain adventures seen some bush pilots do some cool crazy shit an i want in of course the only logical thing to do is buy a plane and go from there 😀 love all these reviews
Thanks Bill! Why not jump in with both feet, eh?
Good Choice. I would pick RANS too.
No regrets half-way through my build. Thanks for the comment!
Congratulations on a great choice! No way would I ever attempt a build...I tend to lose parts and pieces. So I ordered a factory S-21 with the Titan. Looking forward to seeing your build videos!
When I was 8 my neighbor started building a Lancair and I've wanted to build a plane ever since! Hopefully I haven't bitten off more than I can chew, but it appears that Rans has put together a pretty great product, manual, and support. Congratulations on your RTF S-21! When will it be ready and what color scheme did you choose? I'm loving that copper, silver, and black.
@@CLEAREDDIRECT it’s going to be September to October of next year. I’m getting the Encore paint scheme in blue, white black and silver. Being a retired cop, I’m going to maybe get a stylized Blue Lives Matter flag on the tail or rudder.
@@eddieberry8450 very cool and thank you for your service!
"Oh i know nothing about back Country flying right now" says the fighter pilot. Nice one mate, you way ahead of the pack. Let me say that again, Fighter Pilot!!!!!!!!!
I sure appreciate your enthusiasm, Jacques! But I have a feeling it’s quite a different skill set... I’m ready to be humbled just like my first BFM/dogfighting training 20 years ago. Regardless, my tailwheel training will make for some fun videos!
@@CLEAREDDIRECT Love the humility mate and loved the video. I have been looking at kits as well and useful load is well, useful! Great Choice. Your shortlist and mine are the same. Looking forward to following your journey from down under Australia!
A good pilot knows what he can and cannot do. Flying an F-15 does not translate into landing on sand bars, or dealing with schizophrenic mountain winds in what amounts to a powered kite. It's a completely other think entirely. Respect to an F-15 pilot who recognizes that he's basically a fledgling again.
I don't think you'd find very many experienced bush pilots who would claim that their experience would translate to an F-15.
@@mqbitsko25 Amen! Thanks for the good words
@@mqbitsko25 you are totally correct! You missed the context of what I was trying to convey though.
please record your experience from this video forward. there a hundreds maybe thousands of pilots that are listening to you. for example, I am at the exact some point in this process as you....except for the downpayment. thanks
I’ll do my best! Thanks for the kind words, Mark
Congratulations, you won't regret this.
Did you see the new off runway landing gear Randy is testing for the S-21, also look at Edge Performance before you go with a Titan, I think they make some solid and beautiful engines. Turbo efi Rotax and Epex for power up to 300+ hp. 😉
I'm tossed up between the S21 and S20. I want to make a bit more of a Stol plane so am leaning towards the S20 for weight.
Psssst. These are tried and true planes. The S20 and S21 are some of the best part from 2 of Rans most successful planes. S6 and S7 with a few tweeks.
No way! I did not see the new landing gear... where did you see that, FB? I will def check out Edge. Thanks for the tip. It’s hard to pick, ain’t it... thanks for the comment
You made a great choice. I toured the Rans factory a year and a half ago and the s21 is amazing. He width of the cabin, the extra fuel, and extra payload are worth the premium for sure. Check Project 2 Aero on CZcams. He is building an s21 and just revealed that he is using a Yamaha phaser engine.
czcams.com/users/Project2Aero
Yeah, I'm a big fan of Josh. Thanks for the comment!
Highlander/Kitfox cannot compete if useful load is a top priority not to mention cruise speed. Useful load is a massive consideration in bush flying. Which may be a big reason you’ll want to reconsider the Titan for a Rotax or even the Edge Performance Epex. By the time you’ll have your kit and are ready to purchase the engine, Epex will either have a really successful resume or... won’t. Not sure if Rans supports the fwf for that but I thought I heard they would. True flaps and ailerons definitely win out over flaperons + the build time difference really is substantial. :) good luck and keep the vids coming.
Thanks, Forrest! I'll keep my eye out for Epex. I'd love a turbo for some power on hot/high days...
You picked a great plane. 1400 hrs on a RANS S-7. P. S. Kitfox went chapter 11 several times and builders lost their engine payment!