Setting expectations for red dots
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- čas přidán 22. 06. 2024
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"Usually the big time nerds have ACROs" I heard that, looked at my 2 ACROs, and then looked at my computer science degree. Yeah you rarely miss Ben.
I want to know what the Chads are using.
I feel your like the John Meadows (R.I.P) of shooting lol. Always cranking out a tone of informative content and providing an inane amount of knowledge for free with none of the typical click-bait filler. As a new gun owner late to the party (35 y.o.) it's been super helpful. Just snagged the 5 pack of your books from the pro shop, a few thousand rounds of 9mm, 5.56, and 12ga, and a range membership within 5 minutes of my work. Stoked to get after it and make up for lost time!
Dude welcome to the community! Enjoy the journey and as Ben told me in a class last year “just don’t shoot like a pu$$y”
Never made that connection meadows, but you’re totally right. Miss that man
That's an excellent comparison! John had so much knowledge about fitness but still was able to learn and understand other ideas!
Alright. Mountain Dog was the man
John Meadows was one of the best IMO. A humble encyclopedia of practical knowledge.
The Holosun EPS red dot is the best pistol mounted dot out now IMO
No one asked
LOL Holosun
I can only afford to shoot around 4-5k rds of 9mm a year.
About the same for .223/5.56
I have two Holoson red dots. I put C&H Precision mounting plates. So far so good.
This year I've seen 4 reddots fly off guns at matches. 3 SRO's and a RMR from 2 M&Ps, a Glock and a CZ. Heh.
Torque to spec and blue loc tite does the trick!
Once you can train enough to “find the dot” suddenly it’s amazing!
Huge thanks for the consistent content brother. Whether it’s education or entertainment, you always provide. I watch them all and watch every day. You have genuinely gotten me interested in competition shooting and I appreciate the information.
I shoot around 1k rds a month. I haven’t had a dot fail yet but I also change dots every so many years. I’m now into the enclosed emitter stage running a Steiner mps. It has been pretty solid so far.
I have an EPS and EPS Carry. EPS has been good for the 6 months or so I've owned it, Carry needs to go back again. First time, the zero jumped a huge amount and the buttons stopped working. This time, the buttons won't work again.
I don't think the cover for the buttons is quite waterproof on this one. Daily IWB carry in 100 degree heat is a hell of a stress test!
Only other red dot I've had and would call trash is the Romeo Zero. The plastic lens scratches WAY too easily. They saved money on the wrong part.
I was really hoping the C-More rts2 was going to “just work” like you described for most red dots these days. Unfortunately I’ve gotten a unit with many problems. I’ve got a 507comp now… In my opinion irons are more challenging and I like prod but unfortunately 0 people shoot it in my area. The red dots are here and I think they’re here to stay.
I have my Holosun 509t on my deer shotgun and it held up to 200 rounds of 3 inch magnum slugs. It's on my Glock now and it's still held up to 3k rounds on that.
Congratulations
Ben, you're the man. Love the content and info.. #Salute
Simp
My SRO died during a Dryfire session. Dot had about 1500 rounds through it and never abused. Pulled the trigger while dry firing and the dot disappeared and never came back despite changing batteries. Sent it in to Trijicon and they were unable to repair but sent me a new one. I chalk it up a freak incident and my new one has been perfect but I do have a little hesitation sometimes considering it’s my carry gun.
Ive only had one dot "fail." My 509T without about 10-12k on it had the mount screw sheer off and fly off the gun. I got a new screw from Holosun and its back on the gun. Its a gen 1 509T. My SRO and RMRs always work as well
🇺🇸
As an older guy , low hyperope , strongly binocular , bought a dot . For me revolutionary in a great way. Better situational awareness. No getting head tilt to get front sight focus right in the progressive bifocal helps teach me to improve trigger pull. As the old add goes , try it you’ll like it. A cheat code for better groups.
Dots have hit a point where they’re just kinda great at every reasonable price point.
I’m a bullseye guy. High volume .45 shooter. Used to be two players on match .45s: UltraDot and Aimpoint.
UDs are an ancient design and have been struggling with OEM issues recently (I’ve killed 3 newer units). Aimpoints are expensive, and it’s hard to find Micros in stock.
You know what works? Holosun, Primary Arms, and Sig T1 footprint microtube sights. They hold zero, good glass, great battery life, clean dots, accurate adjustments… all at the $120-220 price point. Unreal. Cheaper than a couple matches’ worth of match .45 loads.
I’m a bullseye guy? What the hell does that mean
@@HWG-wm8ld it means he shoots bullseye competitions lol
That’s his master status? Geezus
@@HWG-wm8ld no it’s just what he shoots
@@HWG-wm8ld Bullseye is a sport. I shoot Precision Pistol (f/k/a Conventional Pistol) as well as international pistol sports (10m air pistol and 50m pistol).
I just went red dot 1st week of May no going back (in general). Holosun 507c
For the record I had sig Romeo pro break after a super high round count ( and a few hard drops onto concrete ) and sig replaced it for free… we will
See how long this one lasts
It’s always older gentleman that tell me red dots are a gimmick. They also carry on the hip and refuse to spend the money on an aiwb holster or training.
The only pistol red dot I've ever had fail is an original RMR that was designed before anyone ever envisioned mounting a red dot to the slide of a pistol. I sent it in to trijicon where they did their battery contacts update and I tried the plate with the bump that pushes the battery up but it still didn't work and I decided it wasn't worth pursuing further.
Can you do a video on stock placement in shoulder with a plate carrier, I know matt talks about using the same spot for both
I have two acros and i am all the way into the nerd category. Correct sir!
My issues with dots all but went away once I started using a proper torque wrench (Wheeler fat wrench) and Vibra-tite VC3 threadlocker. Proper mounting seems to be the key for me. Interested to hear the experience of others.
Hi there Ben!
I saw you showed an occluded RDS on a Glock.
I hag an adverse experience shooting with the sun 60 degrees high me facing in sun’s general direction. - Holosun EPS Carry 6 MOA green.
Saw about 3 dots 😁 and green smear.
I colluded the sight to mitigate the effect of the sun but failed miserably (was impacting 15” left at about 12 Yds.
I am right handed and right eye dominant.
I presented pistol and sight before my right eye.
I am still wondering what is happening
Should I present the gun before my non dominant eye 🙃
I would very much appreciate your opinion and recommendation.
Thank you.
Eduardo
Santiago, Chile
There was a study done, the average gun owner has a single digit round count over the time span they own the gun. As you said, they are a gun owner - not a shooter.
I don't get the dot stuff, they've been around forever, they aren't some 'new' thing...they've been around forever. They seem expensive, but compared to buying ammunition, magazines, magazine basepads/followers/springs, and all the other costs associated with shooting - the dot is one of the cheaper things.
I had to get my deltapoint pro repaired after about 10k rounds on my p10c. My firing pin broke before that.
Great information. You mentioned the plates failing more than the dots. What plate do you use for your Glocks? Or do you mill the slide for the holosun optics? Thanks!
Legit
i have an acro due to my fanboyism, the looks, my emotional connection to aimpoint, oh and looks.
yeah i know, not afraid to admit it lol
i don't regret it one but however ahaha
Will you go to PCSL 2-gun match or NVG match in the future?
Will be interesting to see
Wanted to see Ben become PCSL GM and wreck everyone
@Ben Stoeger
What do you think a rds should weigh? Some are barely 30 g, some enclosed ones almost 70 g with manufacturers listing it without batteries (mostly just relevant making weight). Aluminum plates also add weight. At what weight or on what pistols does it feel weird or change the impulse negatively? It seems the customers are mostly happy or at least the high shelf ones would feature more Titanium or Magnesium.
Except delta points, sig pistol dots and vortex vipers/razor pistol dots.
Red / Green dot optics is the future and the future is now 👍🏻🇺🇸
Always add about $500+ for an optic when purchasing a new firearm. That’s what sucks.
If you shoot +P ammo mount the optic with Battlewerx screws. Better yet use Battlewerx screws period.
I try to get to the range at least once a month; sometimes, more others less. Since I've been tracking my round count nine years ago, my average is 5.3K/year over all platforms, though primarily handgun, with my highest 8.6K for a year. I know to some that's nothing, but for me, I don't think I'll shoot enough to kill a red dot.
By the end of the class Saturday, my DPP screws had backed out. Site was loose 😂 have to order new screws. Will witness mark this time
I always do the trick of putting a bright paint line overlapping part of the housing and the screw to see if it’s backing out before it’s a problem. Nothing nobody else is doing but it has always helped me know if I torqued the screws correctly when I get to the range.
No thread locker?
@@zaiquiri1799
You described witness marks.
@@immikeurnot they were. And torqued properly.
That was the heaviest firing schedule the guns seen.
@@onpsxmember Thanks for the free education haha
Burris Fastfire 2 on my competition GSSF Unlimited gun. Not sure how many thousands through it - but I'd be pissed if it didn't last 20k. It cost me almost 200 bucks.
To what distance do you recommend zeroing a dot?
I dropped my slide with optic on it 1x by accident while taking it apart. Picked it up and SRO Lens was shattered. Got charged 100$ to replace the glass by trijicon.
RDS are enhancements. Duty guns have irons as well. If a RDS fails, well, you're back to the irons. Chiefy is afraid of progress and he's either not aware or has forgotten the number of iron sight failures. ( especially stock glock front sights.)
Embrace progress. Keep up with maintenance. I've broken one RMR, most likely because they didn't used to come with torque spec, so it was guess work.
Agree with this, I've been lucky and had no dots fail across 3 heavier use pistols that each see 6-7k/year. I have had all the front sights fall off or come loose within 2 years. Not a high failure rate but surely worse than the Dots.
Totally unrelated, but do you happen to know why it's so hard to find a Gen 5 Glock 34? I haven't been able to find one at any of my local FFLs.
That police chief should be mad that his policemen don’t inspect their gear and change batteries instead of just thinking “muh irons don’t need no batteries so they’re better.”
I've been shooting for a little over a year and I'm actually really good at shooting from a standing position. the dot makes a massive difference of anything beyond 20 feet. I bought one of your plates for the shadow too and I really want to thank you for offering decent prices on your website. I will tag you in a video proving my proficiency.
1000 rounds a year definitely is not high for me, I've already put over 1000 into my shadow two compact that I've had for less than a month. I don't compete, but I'm also single and live right next to a range.
TMI
@@HWG-wm8ld it’s the internet bro. Get outta my vibes
Pistol red dot electronics are not the same as watch electronics. The forces impacted on pistol electronics are far greater than what a watch can endure and is likely to experience. Manufacturers design around this, but issues in manufacturing will manifest with batteries exploding and circuit boards falling apart.
Is a 1 MOA dot okay for a carry gun?
No. 15 moa or nothing
@@HWG-wm8ld buddy is trolling
Buddy ain’t ignorant though
It's all personal preference. Just train with it.
Test the Olight osight
No need, it’s shit
Whats Olight? Never heard of him.
Sig romeo x pro doesnt fit all dpp footprints amd plates even tho the instruction manual says it fits all footprints and plates for the dpp. What a wast of 400$
Ben, it's really not an age thing, because I have 7 Red Dots, you are younger than my kid's. It's more because Red Dots are a new thing. Scopes had the same problems 60 years ago, and now look at them.
If they arent stuck in the past, they are at least out of date.
Oi!
I still like 40. Once you get mastery of recoil it's ova.
9 feels like a 22 after enough work with the 40.
So manly
You do realize this is an argument for 9mm being better to use over .40 cal, right?
I lose 2-3 per year name brand....
Most "gun owners" maybe get a few hundred rounds a year. People who actually practice with any regularity should be way over that thousand number. Using myself as the example of someone who tries to train but has a very hard time making time for it -- After my first kid was born start of last year, I do one range practice a week, shot about 10k rounds between 9mm and 12ga in the past year. No CCW, no work, I'm a computer guy in a liberal city.
You want a cookie?
@@HWG-wm8ld i swear I had edited that post. Updated now.
1000rds a year is wild honestly. I was going through 500rds a month at my old job, and 1000 would have been completely possible if I allowed myself to just go ham.
If you are going to call out Paul Howe, at least present his whole argument. He recommends training at about 3000-5000 rounds before carrying it as your duty/carry weapon. How is that unreasonable?
That would presume the person was already skilled with iron sights, in which case they would know for themselves when they have enough experience to switch over to red dot imo
@@user-ml5ry7kg1w It requires a level of proficiency with irons, and then 3-5 thousand rounds on the red dot prior to carrying in public.
@@gator7082you could have never fired a round through irons and be a GM in carry optics, makes no sense.
@@user-ml5ry7kg1w Don't know how to make it any more simple for you.
@@user-ml5ry7kg1w Oh now I see what you are saying. Grand Master, that must be a competition thing. You see Paul Howe was a Delta Operator. Competition and combat shooting are two different disciplines and not remotely the same thing, which is why Howe requires a certain level of proficiency in Irons before switching to Red Dots. Ben invoked Howe's name which made it fair game to give some push back. If you are going to question a methodology, then at least present the entire methodology.
Ben brings a Matt Walsh vibes to the gun community that I just adore
Why insult Ben in such a way?
That dude that’s obsessed with shit that doesn’t matter? I wouldn’t suggest that of Ben
Dido the replies. Matt Walsh is a pos who is all about free speech until his coworker got fired for exercising her free speech. Then he had nothing to say. Don’t ever compare Ben to the slaves at Daily Wire
He from triple canopy?
Ill never put a red dot on my carry gun. Its just unnecessary. I have had batteries fail too many times to trust my life with one. Tritium irons are always on my carry pistols. Ben, i feel like you rely too heavily on red dots. Not going to lie.
couldn’t disagree more. In a real world situation you likely wont be using your sights (dot or irons) as you will be point shooting. the dot is better in every measurable way
@@andrewschulte3024 So why do you need it?
@@BullseyeBallistics-kf1jw easier to use in general imo
@andrewschulte3024 But I thought you didn't need it in a defensive scenario 🤔 you just point and shoot? So, no sights? Lol. Then nothing can break or lose power 😂
@@BullseyeBallistics-kf1jw you don’t shoot your guns for fun? red dot is better for that too