Why I found Dune Part 2 DISAPPOINTING
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- čas přidán 2. 03. 2024
- I didn't like Dune Part 2 as much as I had hoped I would have and I explain why in this review of the movie.
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I also left the cinema quite disappointed with the changes made to the story.
hard to condensed 28 books into a movie, i think it was quite done considering the limitations, would be hard to portray most of the political side of the books effectively in the limited time
@@ambosdeadActually only the first 4 books matter. They tell one big story, that starts with Paul and ends with his son Leto. And both movies are made of one of these four books.
@@retropolak only on the first book so far with p2 tho regardless
@@ambosdead That's what I said
I loved the changes. Ngl I think they are actually in some cases better than the book.
They did too many cuts and jumped all over the place, everything felt shallow -- the movies should be called Done
couldn’t agree more, i felt the same way
Yes. "done to go on to amaze millions". Called one of the best movies ever made. Maybe it was not the movie that is shallow?
@@donny1960 doesn’t take much to impress people who have been watching shit fest of films for the past 10 years
@@potatomasherr It does though. There are many like you that just want to bitch and bitch and bitch. Nothing is good. All is mediocre. And all not knowing that they are the reason why. Why enjoy anything when you can look down on it? Is compensation for something. Again, no one is compelled to like anything. All things can be torn apart and disliked. Just for existing. You are proof of that. Sorry that the people you share the World with are so not up to par to your greatness. You must be miserable having to cope. It shows.
@@donny1960 Today we live inte the world of "consensus" and if you are deviating from the consensus you are a denier, much like the c-l-i-m-a-t-e agenda. The fact that I need to trick the YT algoritm to not get insta censored proves my point.
Just watched it with my lady in Taipei as well. I was equally underwhelmed. I felt like nothing happened for 3 hours.
Man there was so much I was expecting from this. Esecially from Alia which was my favorite character of the 2nd part of the book... NOT EVEN IN THE MOVIE!! WTF
Nothing happened? Sounds like you watched a different movie...
My big disapointment is you have a 2.30 movie where 2.15 prepare you for 10 minutes. I mean the most powerful force of the universe gets beaten by some dirty nomads in one blow. Its like your local amateur football team gets to play the best professional team in a cup game. You expect them to be pinned down 80minutes in their box, some heroics from the goalie and perhaps nick a goal with a rare counter attack. Here that small team just goes and completely dominate Barcelona with Messi and trounce them 5 nil.
The moment when I've seen Zendaya's Chani saying that "Lisan al Gaib needs to be one of us, one of the Fremen", I knew this is a good enough movie compared to what Hollywood put out for 8 years at least, but A BAD DUNE. These people that made this movie never read Dune. Lisan al Gaib means, literally, "The Voice of Outer World". For fucks sake! The change they made to Chani doesn't make the story better, it alters the original story and characters.
"Among its many smart changes is Dune 2's approach to Chani. Instead of limiting her role to being Paul's Fremen lover, she's an incredibly adept warrior who's rather skeptical of Paul's alleged destiny. The voice of a younger, less devout group, Chani sees through the Bene Gesserit's scheme; she knows they carefully plotted the seeds of a messiah story in order to control the Fremen"
For these people this is a good change of the story... Because she has a huha...
Also disappointed. It's been ages since I read the book (almost 20 years ago I think) so I can't remember a lot of the details, but I remember Chani being a lot more likeable. Another thing I remember was how impenetrable the prose was for Paul's acid trip when he drinks the water of life. When I was reading it, I got the impression that Frank Herbert was trying to describe something that is impossible to describe, but it did effectively convey just how wild the fever dream was.
I was excited for this moment because of Denis Villeneuve's penchant for visuals, this moment gave him absolutely free reign to be as imaginative as he wanted and make something truly memorable, but all he did was show Paul finding an ocean. It was the most safe, bland interpretation of that scene possible.
The pacing was awful too, with no effective conveyance of time. One clear example is when Paul goes off for the challenge to survive a long overnight walk in worm territory, warned about Djinni that can lead him astray as well as various other dangers besides the sandworms. The scene ends with the sun setting and Chani teaching him how to properly walk without rhythm, and then immediately it cuts to the attack on a harvester, and the previous scene is never brought up again. Did Paul encounter difficulty in this challenge? What did he overcome that made him more 'Fremen' in the eyes of the skeptics? Did he learn anything important besides walking without rhythm? We never find out, because the film is too eager to jump to the next scene, where he immediately is shown to be capable of expertly performing Fremen ambush tactics. Did he learn to do that on his night walk? Fuck if I know.
Also, Paul spends 2/3rds of the film resisting heading South and presenting himself as the Mahdi because he knows it will lead to the deaths of millions, if not billions. He is adamant about this until one Fremen base gets raided, and then he has a 30 second conversation with Chani about it, and then he's instantly all-in on the idea. There was no conveyance of this transformation in Paul, it was pretty much the same as when Denaerys suddenly decides to go full scorched earth in GoT season 8 out of nowhere because the plot demanded it.
Also I felt like there was no real chemistry between Zendaya and Timothee Chamolet. Their dialogue felt very basic which didn't help, but they just didn't seem comfortable around each-other.
Not a fan of how they heavily reduced the timespan from a few years to less than 9 months U get that superbabies are creepy, so is baby murder(and children murdering people) but those were pivotal to the story.
Not to mention the butchered ending leaving a pissed off Zendaya for the sequel(sorry, I know it's supposed to be chani, but doesn't feel like her, same with the emperor, biggest disappointment).
PS. Gurney trying to kill Jessica was one of my favourite moments of the book because of everything it implies (catching a bene Gesserit off guard is not an easy task, either Gurney was that good of a fighter or his loyalty was so strong Jessica wasn't really expecting it). Almost 3 hours and they had to leave that out?
Edit: I'll stick to the miniseries, crappy effects and B tier acting, but does in less than 5 hours more than Villeneuve in more than 6
Every thing you called out, I wished was there. However, this was such a great telling of the story that I'm having a hard time really being that upset about those omissions. I'm just grateful someone made a movie out of my favorite novel of all time and actually did it justice both visually and story-wise. It wasn't perfect, but I don't think any film adaptation of Dune will every live up to the complexities and layers of nuance you find in the novel.
I agree the ending was the weakest part of the movie. In many ways.
But if you want to make a good movie you have to do compromises to fit the story to the medium. You wouldn't' write a screenplay if you were to write a book from a movie either. Compressing the timeline was one of the good changes.
@braisfigueira5032 Well said, especially about Gurney suspecting Jessica. And for those saying you have to leave things or change things for an adaptation. Sure. But not those things. The original movie proved you can and should have Alia in it, killing the Baron. You should ensure Chani supports Paul all the way and accepts her fate. Those things should not be changed. They don't need to be.
@@VoltesWithElias The way I see it, in the novel(and in both lynch and scifi adaptations) it was irulan who had to accept the fate. Chani was always going to be the true wife of Paul and the mother of his 3 children. Irulan was only married by name, chani was married by love. Now it looks as if Paul ditched chani in a whim for a girl he didn't even know just to ensure a political position(what an a-hole). Then again, the shorter timespan changed the relationship into just a fling...
On a side note, I love the extended role irulan has in the miniseries
It's a good movie but it's hard to out everything in a movie, and it's normal to do changes to the story, because people are going to get mad anyway, if you don't make changes "boring movie, they just copy the story and I already knew what was happening" if they made changes "blasphemous changes, they cut all the important parts and only used the ones I don't care", so it's kinda impossible to please the producers, the audience and the marketing team lol
Totally agree about the guild navigators, they were totally ignored. It could've been amazing to see the 3rd stage guild navigator yelling at the emperor to take care of the spice shortage problem, and then you see the emperor flying to Dune! Or at least just a hint of them behind blurry glass, like in the Arrival, just to set the story for next films...missed opportunity.
I agree. It was a good movie with awesome set pieces, but not a great adaptation of the second half of the book. Part 1 was a great movie and great adaptation. In Part 2 they failed to retain integrity to so many of the characters, Chani being the worst offender to secure that ESG money.
Finally, I am not the only one who is disappointed. I'm angry mostly because of Chani's attitude.
So glad I streamed this instead of wasting money at the theatre. I don’t think I’ve ever been more underwhelmed by a movie
I found you while actively searching to understand how people actually LOVED the movie... it makes no sense to me. The visuals, sound, CGI, and acting were all absolutely phenomenal in my opinion, so for that, yes, I would give it a total 10/10. 100% rating. Wtv you wanna call it. Sure. As for story, plot, screenwriting... I felt like there was NONE. I did not read the books either and my understanding is that the books are completely mind blowing, so I'm not saying that... I'm saying the movie did not deliver the story at all. I have SO MANY QUESTIONS that were unanswered through both parts AND it did not successfully create any emotional investment for me towards any of the characters.
We don't learn anything about anybody, for example, seems like a key point to the plot of the movie... It's a movie about rebelling against the evil powers in control, specifically on this random spice planet. Okay... why should we care? The first part of the first movie made it very clear that this planet is only a tiny part of this major universe and no one worth freeing lives on... but let's pretend that it's only that planet and nothing else.
We're introduced to two of the houses, the Atreides and Harkonnens, and each lives on their own planet, and have the same technologies, and we're meant to hate the Harkonnens and root for the Atreides. Why? We know absolutely nothing about either of their cultures. We see the princes training in combat and the ruler of the Harkonnens seems to be a ruthless person, but that's abt it. We see nothing outside of that. We don't learn anything about the culture of Atreides or what makes them so noble and why they're better than any of the other houses. We're supposed to cheer for Paul to win the war against the Harkonnens because we witnessed his family getting massacred...? okay? Why do I give a damn about his family and how does that make him special in any way?
As for Paul himself. Why is he so special? He can see premonitions and all that and do the voice which he seemed to be bad at but improving... okay... They don't really explain why only he has those abilities. They do explain why he's the only man who does, but it seems like none of the women really do. Also, genuinely wondering why they invested so much of the first movie showing us his training in using the voice and how he's not great at it but has the magical ability if that ability SERVES NO PURPOSE!! He did not use it AT ALL besides yelling at the Bene Gesserit in black at the end... which added nothing to the story, did not help in any way, did not mean anything... I don't understand. Why would you give your main character an ability that has 0 value to the story?
The sister... what's the point of her in the movie AT ALL too? If drinking the magic water gives him and his mom the ability to see the entire past and the entire future and everything and all that... what's the point of the sister? Why did they need her to tell them stuff? What did she add to the story that her mom couldn't have done on her own, or him on his own? Was it JUST to show Anya Taylor Joy for 3 seconds? Was it just to set up for future movies? What's up with that? I learned of her importance in the books but she felt like she added nothing at all to the movie besides a bit of a creepy vibe. And her telling her prince brother that he must live up to his potential like how does that make sense? Why is that not instantly met by "shut up you unborn child, what gives you the right to tell me what I should do" and instead she's supposed to be the wisest in the family and all that? Maybe she is but that was never explained at any point.
As for the Fremen, we don't really learn anything about them as a community or culture, we get a bit of glimpses but not at all enough time to actually care about them as a community or culture or any of it. The only thing we get is that it is their planet, they're being oppressed, and they're supposedly the underdogs, even though in all the fights in this movie they were unstoppable and seemed like they could have won back their planet anytime they wanted to but they just were choosing not to try(???)! But yeah, we don't really get a dive into them as a community and their struggles enough to actually want them to win and be free or to cheer for their success or anything along those lines. Just couldn't care less whether they got their planet back or not, really.
I also hated that there was no sense of time in the movie... like the Bene Gesserit move from the Emperor's planet to the Harkonnen's in a 1 second cut scene, as if they teleported. So many things happened that felt instant or that suggest they took time but didn't convey that feeling in the movie... PLUS ALL of the almost six hours of the 2 movies, and all that action including growing up, learning, maturing, gaining confidence, learning the ways of the dessert, blowing up all those spice machines, learning to ride the worms, traveling from north to south and back a few times, including moving the entire population of the fremen south, the romance with Chani and falling in love, the strategizing, the wars, the battles, drinking the magic juice, getting in a coma, being saved by Chani, and getting accepted by the Fremens as one of them first, then as their Messiah and leader, etc... all happened in the less than 9 months his mom was pregnant and didn't give birth yet?
There are so many more points points. All about the storyline. Even the story line that did exist in the movie, the critical plot advancement scenes, they were mainly hinted or passed over. Like Lady Jessica's manipulation of the Fremen to turn them all into believers of Paul... really, a nearly 3 hour movie with almost a full hour of screentime of extra long scenes that were super cinematic, and you sum up such a critical plot development and advancement point with 2 lines. One of her telling her omniscient telepathic creepy fetus that they need to turn the Fremens into believers, starting with the weaker ones, and a few scenes later the other line of Paul saying to her that he knows someone has been spreading lies... with a clear suggestion he knows it was her the whole time. How about show us how she did it? Show us the whispers, and using the voice, and wtv way she convinced people. Seems really really important! And the same applies to SO MUCH. Using one liners to convey to us a whole plot point.
Oh another easy example... instead of forcing the loveless making out of Zendaya and Timmy, after we've already clearly established they're in love with each other, and spending smthn like 10 minutes on that scene, then the Bene Gesserit getting impregnated by Feyd-Rautha takes a 3 second scene... would have been at the very least a lot more entertaining to watch how she seduced that creep or to show some suggestions of the sex happening and how she secured the pregnancy or wtv that was, because, again, as a person who did not read the books, have no idea how she ensured she got pregnant by one bedding. Did they do it a lot more than once? Is once all it takes? I admit that may have been explained in the first movie but I may have missed it... it just seemed way more interesting to explore and waste some time since we have about 6 damn hours for the whole movie... Again, just a few of the very many problems I have with the storytelling in the movie.
Just here to add to rant I guess, because I'm glad there's at least one video on youtube where Dune is not extremely hyped and blown out of proportion as the best movie ever out there... The worst part of it for me, and why I am so triggered by it and have so much to say, is that this movie, with that budget, with how every single aspect of the movie besides the shallow exploration of the universe building and the rushed through under-explained plot and character building scenes that make a person fall in love with the story and contemplate its meanings, I genuinely believe this movie could have been the best movie EVER, yet as it is at the moment... disappointing. Not saying it is not a great movie. I would still give it a 7/10 rating and would recommend anyone to watch it, but it really could have been one of the very few movies in the history of cinema that are undeniably and unarguable 10/10.
I hate Anna Taylor Joy
The whole movie is disgrace to the books. It has nothing of essence of the books. It is huge dump on Herbert's work.
The new Dune movies don't compare to the original Star Wars trilogy.
Thats an interesting way to look at it 🤔 Dune definitely deserves a series to that quality, but I wonder would it have been more likely if it was a trilogy? Rather than a set up movie and then an endless plot movie. It does feel like its too inconsistent to even see it as a part 1 and 2.
Good review on the movie and pointing out the things that was left out. I came out of the movie feeling that there were a bunch more scenes filmed but left out of the final cut. Like how Count Fenring was fully left out despite being casted.
The Dune 2000 mini series to this day is the closest you'll get to the source material. The special effects are wanting but the story and the characters are on point (well, the Irulan mystery solving plot wasn't in the book but felt right). The international version was even better (less censorship more character building). If you can look past the TV budget effects and the lack of high definition it's a fantastic watch.
can't look past the terrible costumes and hilarious dialogue by Spacing Guildsmen, but YES, the portrayol of Barron is much closer to the books. And the 1st episode of Children of Dune which covers the entirety of Dune Messiah is increeedddible, so emotional and hits all the points in the book. Seriously doubt Villeneuves version is gonna top it.
100% agree with you. I was so pissed the last shot of the movie was of an angry Chani and not Paul. One of the scenes that also made me dislike this movie was when they had the elaborate fight scene when the Fremen popped out of the sand to take out a spice harvester. They had a huge hand to hand combat scene and Paul and Chani took out the flying ship, but then from the distance they just shot all of the machines with giant blue lasers. Why wouldn't they just shoot everything with the blue laser in the first place? Glad I'm not the only one who was very disappointed with this movie.
Thankyou for putting it into words! I went in to the theatre with no fear that it would not be incredible but left feeling disappointed and depressed. Such a let-down character wise.
We live in a world where dumbing down is order of the day
Villeneuve claims to be a massive fan of Dune, since he was 14 years old... and honestly part 2 very much proves that because it felt like I was watching a 14 years old interpretation of Dune. Child like and over simplified to the point I even doubt he read the book... I read the book after part 1 because I couldn't wait 4 years to know what happens next, and holy shit do I understand book fans disappointment with part 1 now.... I like part 1 more because Chani is still somewhat Chani, and you have Thufir and Kynes. In Part 2 Villeneuve completely abandoned them, and has made up so many excuses for simply caving/cowering to Warner Bros demands to simplifying and making the story reflect our current culture today, "North and South Fremen" give me a fucking break......
Now take the ending of Part 2... book readers know this shit significantly changes the events of Dune: Messiah so much 50% is going to be completely made up bullshit by the screenwriters. Gonna love watching Villeneuve and the screenwriters try to worm themselves out of this one Lmao..... just keep adding more action scenes and loud noises and music Denis!! it's gonna be great and not age badly at all!!
Agreed on a fair amount of your points. I also enjoyed the first movie more than the second. I actually was not really convinced of Timothees acting in bringing Paul from child to Warrior/Leader. I don't really like him in the role personally.
Its already been mentioned by others but I don't think Zendaya was cast well either, aside from the addition that her character is very different. With so much focus on the two of them, it really took away from the movie when I felt their acting was sub-par.
Supporting acting was incredible though. Lots of credit to many of the actors/actresses around them.
Obviously the visuals and audio were absolutely superb. They really carried the film to something that I would consider enjoyable still.
I also felt that the timeline was extremely spotty. Not only did they not progress the actual timeline well (even with more time in the movie), it still felt disjointed and almost rushed in some scenes when jumping in progression of what was trying to be character development and movement across the planet, but then strangely the pregnancy moved at what seemed a different pace.
Overall still a "good" movie. Not as good as the first. I hope they lessen the screen time of Paul and Zendaya in the third, but the way they have built up the love-stung Zendaya ending makes it seem like there will be a lot more focus there unfortunately.
Thanks for taking your time to review!
I have read the first four books in the Dune series and possess an in-depth knowledge of the rest of the saga by Herbert's son. Moreover, I have watched the Lynch version several times and the Sci-Fi channel's versions, have listened to them on audio and Audible, and watched the documentary on Jodorowsky's Dune. Although I may not claim to be an expert in the saga, I am well-educated and have read extensively about it.
I firmly agree with you.
However, it seems that the majority rules perception
I agree with everything laid out here. One point though. if i remember correctly. Navigators aren't described in the first book , Its not till "Messiah" we get a proper description of the navigator Edric .
I was also underwhelmed, its good, not great. I agree with most of your points. Its cold and umengaging Film with lots of long scenes which should be shortened (Arena fight) and lots that should be longer( the attack on the emperors army)
Thank goodness I am not the only one that found this film so disappointing, Jessica was pregnant for almost six years FFS. Missing the birth and death of Leto II. OH dear my teeth itched all the way through the film.
Making a 6 years story with complex plot lines and characters into a movie is... Well You are never directing a movie for any studio again lol
@@StoneCoolds Watch television Dune 2000. They did it in shorter screentime than DV, because 25 years ago, there were writers who were able to make a story. You can argue with the "fifth-elemental" costumes or the smaller budget, but they were able to adapt the book perfectly. No plot line was missing, spectator was caring for characters. Chani was real strong female character, not this spoiled child Zendaya etc. etc.
Greatly disappointed in this watered down adaptation. No CHOAM, no Spacing Guild, no mentats (Paul is a mentat), no mention of the Butlerian Jihad and why there is no thinking machines. The ending scene makes no sense and creates and contradictions. The Spacing Guild has a monopoly on space travel and were the ones who brought the Landsraad to Dune at the end. In the book it was the Spacing Guild who forced the Landsraad to accept Paul as Emperor to maintain peace and the flow of spice. They changed it in the movie with the Landsraad rejecting Paul as Emperor. Paul responds with telling the Freman to bring Jihad to the planets of the Landsraad. How are Fremen going to leave the orbit of Dune? The Landsraad would have only rejected Paul with the backing of the Spacing Guild; with no support from the Spacing Guild the Fremen are stuck in their star system.
I still can’t understand they were literally given all the material they needed to make it a good movie! WTF and the changed some of the best parts and made it a shit show
yeah i agree with the character development lacking, like it doesnt have to be long expositions or anything like that but its the little things, I like to look at that scene with chani where she asks about pauls home world, such a small thing but it actually builds a bit of character, at that moment they arent just archetypes for the story but in a way the conversation connects them to the world, to each other, helps to connect us with them too it grounds them, makes them feel human rather than protag 1 and protag 2 etc. etc. and i feel it was lacking in those types of scenes, not just with chani but other notable fremen as well. How it is now it basically in one scene paul is an outsider and made fun of then battle scene occurs then suddenly everyone's ride or die for him without actually showing him getting personally close with them, I feel such jumps were really all over the place in this movie and that stuff, i feel disconnects us from the movie, its like the movie is going through it like bullet points. i feel like that would have been fixed with just a few of those small but character and world building scenes that I first mentioned above, in between those bullet points, it just frustrating cus you could feel it right there all the potential but imo as much as i enjoyed it more than part it doesnt really reach what it could have reached.
Agreed. In fact, I contend they should have labeled Dune 2 "Dune Heresy". A prime example: Chani, as portrayed in the movie, is an absurdity when juxtaposed with her in the book. Chani was never a Fedaykin; far from it! Yet, there she is in the movie portrayed as a Fedaykin Fighter and kicking Sardaukar ass. Ridiculous (and entirely unbelievable) on every level.
Also, Chani never openly expressed derision towards her elders or Paul in the book; yet in the movie she is depicted as showing open disdain for Paul, Stilgar, the "fundamentalist Fremen" (weren't they all fundamentalist in the books?). Even the part wherein her tears mixed with the water of life were what revived Paul was untrue. That was meant to create the impression that somehow she was special, too. She wasn't and isn't.
Chani in Dune Heresy was a caraciture meant to "empower her" to appeal to rabid feminists and their male simp counterparts. Sacrilege! I was appalled.
Marketing my friend, pure pushing her as an “actress” cuss like 3 other films are coming out with her. 😆 so the director wanted as well to make teen angst , romance, and a snippet of the book when Paul takes irulan as a wife. This made her to a concubine , just like lady jessica 🤷🏻♂️but oh well. I’ll stay with 84 chani 😊
And in the end, it made her look like a complete idiot.
An interesting, complex book, full of contradictions, shades of grey and difficult decisions was turned into the relatively simple "path to the dark side of The Force" in the movie. I accuse Villeneuve of turning a unique story into a bog-standard story about power and revenge, as we have seen elsewhere, regardless of the great and different packaging.
Part 2 should have been 2 movies. this would have been a satisfying trilogy had they taken their time like the first movie. I got whiplash from all time skips and location jumps without clear scene transitions a few times.
The battle scene in the end was a huge letdown. Lord of the Rings Two Towers refused to let us go without an epic battle scene, even after so much character building throughout. Why couldn't Dune Part Two do the same thing?
They Game of Thrones Golden Armied the Sarduakar. Those were the Emperor's Best and a tribe of less healthy, less rested and less ready Freemen took them out like they were nothing.
Ridiculous b.s
For one experimented fighter ridding a worm was very hard, for a group of people with no experience it was easy.
How the worm stops to let the people get out of his back?!?
Good review on the missing pieces in the movie
Whew, I thought I was the only one whom was disappointed. Frank Herbert wrote a semimal piece that is amongst the best scifi ever written. Seeing it butchered so that it can be crammed it into a post woke narrative is just so sad. It missed the best parts of the story. In fact it missed the whole point.
I agree with your review 100%. Watch the 4 hour David Lynch version, as it is much better.
I agree with this. This is a miss for Denis. Hopefully he brings it back together for Messiah.
I was OK with Alia not being born.
I disliked Stilgar becoming goofy and playing for laughs.
I was ok with the concept of a skeptic Fremen-fraction, but I think it was poorly realized and only used so Chani could spell out the anti-hero theme in VERY Capital letters.
A major flaw with the skeptic-thing is the attempt to diminish the effect of Spice (Water of life is just “worm piss”). It wasn’t needed and it makes no sense in the Dune universe.
The Harkonnen planet was one of the best characterisation of a fantasy/scifi material ever in my mind. The decors, the architecture, the scope and the color pallete itself worked to a great effect. It transmitted very well the kind of power and the despotic and sadistic way the Harkonnens made use of it. It was enough already to make me uncomfortable. Glad they left some out.
I understand you about Alya but the movie was long enough and I don't think that she affected the story in a irreplaceable way.
Another of your points, Chani and Irulan, for me, having read the books, it didn't miss much, I kind implied all of it also because Paul mentions that will evetually understand it all. I didn't get that the film ended with her storming off, because, well, I walked out just in those moments, nothing was wrong but after over 2 and a half hours, other things became more important. And I didn't think I'd miss much, as, apart from your impression, mine was that they followed the written material pretty closely, at least in the most important aspects and there were really not many suprises.
I agree on the navigators and the Space Guild. That was a great miss. It's possible that a lot of material had not made the (this, hopefully) final cut.
I think the movie succeded in building the world of Dune and displayed it for out physical eyes, while touching the key aspects of the mythos, like the shields and fighting, Bene Gesserit and all the politics, the spice and scale and the hidden (for now) complexity of the sand worms' lifecycle.
The changes to the Chani character robbed audiences of the true magic of the romance between Paul and Chani. It should have been the love of all loves. The change to Chani was a huge mistake. As was the absence of Alia. She is supposed to kill the Baron, that's important. Where is the guild? The navigators? Hawat? Geurney's suspicion of Jessica. The loss of Paul's son? And the stuff with the Baron should have also been implied in some way. Much more formidable and sadistic in the book.
These things are all crucial but the biggest mistake has to be Chani and Alia. I cannot agree that the movie followed the book in a respectful way. I think it was a debacle and huge disappointment, but not surprising considering how movies are made today.
@@VoltesWithEliasChani and Paul was a great love but also tormented, by suspicion in the beginning, by the scope of Paul's mission, through the entire way of life of the fremens. And in the end by the fact the Paul distanced himself from himself by adopting the foreseen but cruel path. Yes, Chani remained his refuge against all this but it wasn't in no way easy for Chani. Maybe the biggest change would be that Chani is in the movie represented as a non-believer in Paul's mission but the reticence was also present in the book. Personally, I understood it as Paul had abandoned the path of the heart, what he started in the beginning by loving Chani but adopting a path of the mind through the decision that he took after drinking the water of life and foreseeing the future. So, it makes sense that she is kind of enstranged to his image as a god but at the same time she stayed beside him.
For me, it's not so important that Alya killed the baron as it didn't have much of any consequence later in the stories. Of course, it would have been a very interesting character but that's it.
I agree that the Navigators and Guild are a great miss.
But I couldn't care less about all the minutue politics written in the book, it's the scale of the worlds and of the whole story, the mythos of the fremens and of the sand worms this is what I kept from the books after 20 years since I read them.
100% agree. No navigators, no Spacing Guild.
As a Fremen, Chani was raised from birth with the mindset of "for the betterment of the tribe". Paul marrying Irulan was for the betterment of the tribe. There is no reason to be a spoiled brat! It goes against everything she has been taught since birth.
I didn't like all the changes made to the story, but I knew something like that was bound to happen.
Its the same criticisms I have for Denis Vill's other sci fi movies .... his movies seems emotionally hollow because the emotions just feels artificial and coming out of nowhere ... he overdo the "serious thoughtful looking" character thing, they feel 1 dimensional because there is a lack of naturalness about their interactions ....
Its more like a movie showing off spaceship designs, I do not like the giant worms as they seems like low intelligence animals when they are suppose to give a sense of intelligence , the first Dune's worms gives off a better vibe of emotional temperament.
Its definitely visually grand but it lacks the emotional aspect ....
I haven't seen part 2 yet, but I wasn't impressed with part 1... They gender swapped Liet Kynes... I know he is a minor character, but he is Chani's father... he does have a small but not unimportant part and they changed him to a woman, who as far as I can tell wasn't even supposed to be Chani's mother. THEY GENDER SWAPPED A FUCKING CHARACTER FOR NO GOODDAM REASON... Did it ruin the film... no, Liet Kynes is a minor character, but it showed me that Denis Villeneuve was going to make changes FOR NO FUCKING REASON and to me that is the best indication of a bad adaptation. Oh and BTW where was the guild Navigator, where was that whole scene, it is the guild Navigator who enters into the conspiracy with the Emperor to assassinate PAUL, not the Duke Leto, PAUL, it might seem like a minor thing, but Villeneuve is cutting out the political machinations which are at the very heart of the story... I don't know why everyone thinks this is such an awesome adaptation... Dune is not a superhero story it's a political story, and its why I loved the books, did you get any of that watching this adaptation...
No… there seems to be more real life politics than Dune politics.
I feel that with film adaptions, and sequels these days, every writer believes they can do better than the original story. I also wondered if they would stretch out the second film, to save more for a third or fourth film.
Wish there was more Action scenes though. And the desert people were depicted as a more advance civilisation
Once small point, guild navigators are not genetically modified. As a result of taking huge quantities of the spice, their bodies begin to change
But isn't it modifying their genes?
i never read the book, but saw the old movie, so i guess i gonna rewatch it again XD from what i get here^^
The book is superb.
I liked it.
Seemed like they made years go by very quickly. Pauls sister not being born for example. Not sure if thats cause they were in the desert for a short time. Or if something kept Pauls sister from being born. Not sure if thats how it was in the books.
Good movie overall. Can't be perfect. Changed more than I was hoping but, got a lot of new people into the story.
u have obviously never heard of the much superior sci fi channel dune mini series the definitive dune experiecne withthe only thing left out was the thopter excape and some effects looking like an old sci fi pc game, and its available here on you tube with it superior sequel children of dune for free
FYI He said things would work out with her and he seen it in the vision. Don't judge until part 3 comes out. I was worried she was a marry sue character but that is still yet to be seen.
It's possible to use the 3rd movie for more world building,. I think Dennis skipped the Alliah plotline and the 2 year jump forward for pacing reasons. I actually don't have a problem with the plot points that were changed, however I wish it was truer to the book. Still an amazing movie and one of the best I have seen in a long time.
the first one was utter trash as well
Disappointing. Sadly. But It was Flawed.
i disagree on the too much action and not enough world building. I've seen the movie 3 times now and there's so much visual storytelling and -worldbuilding. And ironically enough the first two major action scenes have some of the most world building in the movie. But that's just my opinion.
The film is visually stunning, but has little to do with the story told in Dune, save the names of the characters. Pretty to look at, but you can only look at pretty pictures so long. Maybe if one kept the video and score, and just deleted all the dialogue...
Maybe listening in Mandarin had a lot lost to translation.
Both Dune Remake 1 and 2 are massive piles of trash. Cast is atrocious, the story, the look, is bland and sterile. Still has that boring woke nonsense added. Dune 1984 is the only classic. Nobody cares about movies anymore because they are woke checklist trash and these films are no exception. The casting was weak, the related characters don't even look like family lol. And there are alot of shills, bots and slime influencers out in full force like a marketing firm or bots looking to prop it up.
Amen, brother. You said it right.
Is Thufir Hawat in the film, even?
no
@@Erad_Prime WTF!!!!
they completely eliminated Mentats... No mention of the Butlerian Jihad, CHOAM, Navigators...
@@Virakotxa sheeesh
@@Jamie-666 Nor Ix.
If you didn't watch it in English you will be missing much of the sound affects that made the movie. Don't forget there will be part 3.
Hollywood please don't make movie's like this anymore. what an awful boring movie. and i love sci-fi
Why on the strongest point of your video, where you go over Chain’s portrayal do you have blaring background music that makes it very difficult to hear why her portrayal sealed your overall dissatisfaction with Part 2.
Other than that, good video I understand your criticism. I enjoyed Part 2 and have read the book. I agree it is not the coveted perfect Dune adaptation that we hoped it would be but just from Part 1 alone, they’ve cut a lot material in order to create this simpler Dune. However you are right, they should have kept Alia book accurate and they should’ve included Thufir’s final scene at least.
Overall, I feel these movies serve as a perfect entry level medium to introduce this generation to the books, something I feel the David Lynch and SyFy series’ adaptations failed to do in regards to their respective generations.
P.S: Think of Berserk 1997, it missed a lot of nuances that made the manga great but it was a good anime series first and a competent adaptation second. Because of that it created a lot of fans of the manga who’ve kept up with the chapters to this day, patiently waiting for the manga’s ending.
One of the worst movies i have ever watched, both parts. David Lynch's 1984 cut is a masterpiece compared with this love story crap.
For me, that's the most disappointing movie of 2024 (so far, at least) and even Villeneuve's visual style is lacking.
Excellent review. Also, no explanation as to what happened to Hawat. Or Guerney suspecting Jessica as the traitor. But Alia's absence and Chani being completely changed was a debacle.
Fights scenes in power rangers were better 😂😂😂😂
I liked Part 1 and I feel the same aboput Part 2 even though I do not even know the books. Some decisions seemed very random and hard to understand.
Men mad Chani was a strong woman who had her own mind and loved and fought for her people maybe more than a man. When people talk about toxic masculinity there it is. Men crying about an old like it is something sacred is very sad.
Granted these movies feel and look more epic with the ton of money dumped in them but as far as story and characters go, the scifi channel mini series IMO is still way better than this. Was also not a big fan of the changes and so much left out of what should have been a far more epic "war paul" and battle.. But at the same time I get it. You cant and dont want to remake a remake the same LOL and i get the whole different vision bit but I think this creative vision worked against the movie in the long run. I did however like Lady Jessica's portrayal in this movie more than anyone elses by far. They really dropped the ball on Paul with is transformation to badass Paul.. And in the same breath wonder why they changed Chani so much, almost to an unlikeable character. Leaving out the The Weirding Way and its importance minus someone using the voice a couple of times was a disservice as well.. I guess coming up on the Lynch version and the scifi channels series, this movie was almost blasphemous in comparison LOL but still good enough and entertaining if you take it as it is on its own.
You know what this movie has to be clean enough for movie audience and it was already much darker than the first and their was no way you would fit the whole second book into one movie even as long as this. No need to show the scenes of children being violated it was dark enough as it is. This is why we don't get deep big budget sci-fi anymore. Because people like you are never satisfied and can't get enough gore and obscene content with it. It was great.
I wasn't disappointed. I was shocked and stunned how this piece of trash got such high praise.
The whole movie is a disgrace to the books, it is disgrace to all Herbert's work, it is spit in the face.
Changes Villneueve made are terrible, history is perverted, everything adapted to "modern audiences".
I despise this movie and anyone who read the books, but still thinks Dune: Part 2 is something more that a pile of shit.
Visuals and music are great, but everything else is hollow and empty.
To be honest I thought some of the changes fit pretty well given the constraints of working in the film medium.
I kinda disagree with the Chani running away being “modern audience treatment”. Without the time skip, chani and Paul have spent a lot less time with eachother, did not have a child together, etc… so chani feel less obligation to stay with Paul, in the context of the movie it doesn’t make sense for her to automatically understand that what Paul is doing is purely a political decision. Plus in the movie, paul wins her over by reassuring the fremen that he’s not power hungry. Chani who is initially suspicious of him is led to believe that he’s not just using the fremen for his own ends. During the scene where Paul makes a big speech at the war council, it becomes obvious to her that he starts wielding his “myth” as the Lisan Al Gaib to make power plays and she becomes distant with him. By the time he takes the princess’s hand in marriage, it fully confirms her initial suspicions about Paul using the fremen for his own ends and she flees in anger, which makes sense for her character in the movie IMO. Given what was cut out in the movie it would make a lot less sense if she had just accepted what Paul was doing without question.
That being said I do agree that they should have explored the space guild more, they only really show up once in the first movie and they only have a single line of dialogue dedicated to them. Without demonstrating the value of spice in the first place, it does kinda make the impetus for the entire plot much weaker. Even a few scenes delving into the space guild or just showing how spice is used would make the overall plot a lot stronger IMO. Overall I quite enjoyed the movies. I don’t think they’re the most faithful adaptation but I do think they do a good job translating the “spirit” of the novels to film. I got a lot of the same feelings of “uneasiness” about Paul’s role in the world as I did in the novels. Although I do wish they just went the R rated route so they could have depicted the more depraved aspects of the story such as the harkonnens etc and the bloodless fight scenes felt a bit weak given how serious the plot feels in the movie.
6:26 - I absolutely hate that visual
I was expecting some wokeness and I'm happy there wasn't more. I just hope that they don't turn Chani into some kind of unbeatable girl boss in Dune Messiah.
The end is very woke IMO and makes Chani look like a complete idiot.
Awesome movie. Maybe the best sci-fi action film ever. Overall an amazing accomplishment , even if just for successfully getting the basic story to screen, but yeah, still a disappointing adaptation for a lot of reasons. The books are incredibly dense with world-building and political intrigue, so it's disappointing but also understandable why a lot of that was cut, but the way they rushed through Paul's transformation and barely addressed his prescience was really frustrating to see.
As fans of the books, we can all nitpick specific things we think should be in the ovie, but the one aspect that really doesn't line up with the source material at all is the films' explicit interpretation of the themes that the book left intentionally ambiguous. Herbert intended to critique the relationship between charismatic leaders and those who elevate them to power by telling what could be seen as a cautionary tale, but could arguably be seen as a triumphant and heroic ascension. The film basically trades this grey area for a black and white worldview, which just feels so... stupid.
All that said, I would recommend giving it time, then revisiting without any preconceptions. It's an absolutely incredible action movie.
What did you think about the radical changes to make Chani antagonistic towards Paul becoming a leader? I found it largely nonsensical in the context of DV's stated intentions to use her to make it clear that Paul is an antihero.
For a start, the film didn't show me any compelling reason IIRC to take Chani's side over Paul's. It's not like she has a compelling reason for having greater foresight than Paul (especially as he grows more prescient) or the other Fremen. Her rationale for distrusting Paul seems to essentially boil down to xenophobia and a distrust for the Lisan al Gaib as a potential savior rather than enslaver of her people.
Besides that, Paul already expresses distrust of his own leadership multiple times in the film even with his limited visions, long before he transforms to become increasingly prescient. So having Chani doubtful about his leadership seems more redundant than supplemental. Most of all, I just found it tonally odd that his ultimate lover is also the last Fremen to ever support him as a leader after he has rallied all the rest. Even trying to completely forget about the books, it's a very strange storytelling choice to make the ultimate lover of a protag who sleeps with him and comforts him be the voice that tells the audience that we're not supposed to be rooting for him.
You are never gonna get a 1 to 1 copy of the original books, get over it, specially in such complex, long story with lots of characters and character building
If you want a 1 on 1 just read the books again, yes rhe movie is rushed, you can see they cut time off it, yes they change the story, thats what movies do, they are based on, not copy on, and studios will for ever demand shorter times
Yeah, there needs to be more vids to make aware that the director mashed it to his liking. took the challenge to use the book for the film but skewed it big time. It’s like saying he would be making a true to book film but ended up with Barbie 😅 (ken is not Paul, Barbie is lol) 😂. Made a Swiss cheese film, left out and compressed the film just like part 1.
I get the criticism but if you were to have all the piece left out the movie would be 4-5 hours long. At the end of the day - its a movie and not a book, it needs to be changed to adapt to the screen and to that end I think they did a great job. The amount of stuff the LOTR trilogy changed and or left out was substantial but it remains some of the best movies of all time and the source material is larger than that of Dune.
it wouldn’t have been 4-5 hours if Villeneuve didn’t invent entirely new ideas, relationships, character dynamics, etc for the film. He only had to adapt 300 pages. Besides, the changes in Dune 2 took away from the core themes of the novel. Dune 2 feels so pale in comparison to the book.
so much wrong with the movies skipping from the books like the mentat's the first part skipping all the Piter de Vries dialog with the Baron some of the best lines in the book and with part 2 Thufir Howard having been tricked into serving harkonnens it doesn't even talk about how Paul himself was secretly trained as a mentat really disappointing i could look past the first part because i still felt it was great with the knowledge of the books it still kinda worked but 2nd part yeah its complete trash
I have to say, I watched the first one and didn't care for that either. I wanted to like it because I enjoyed the game. Oh well.
I think your wife is correct more story 🎉and character building would have been good, particularly for those like my wife who hasn’t read the books. There is a lot left out but there will be three movies and that is a lot of books to pack in. I try to watch movies based on books for their own performance and I enjoyed the entertainment provided by both movies.
The game? Bro read the book
@@DeathmetalPersian I might take you up on that one day. Thanks.
@Xaveth a lot of people are intimidated by how long it is. I highly recommend the audio book on audible. Its got sound effects, music, great voice acting. It's a really good theater of the mind experience and what's great is you don't have to find the time to sit and read you can listen to it 1 chapter a time while you drive or sit at a desk. Its genuinely one of the best books ever written and actually I think it's free on audible rn if you have a subscription.
@@DeathmetalPersian Thank you. That's great advice as I've actually been looking for a new audio book. Thank you!
For someone who didn't read the book, movie is still great. If you can watch with focus and understanding, everything is explained. Main emotional moments are insanely enhanced with amazing inspiring music.
As someone who is not familiar with the source material and a cinephile, this movie was incredibly well done and truthfully might be one of the greatest sci-fi films ever made.
People who read the books "I don't like the movie because it isn't 5 hours long" dont get me wrong i would of loved more of the movie, but i think Denis did the best with the time given to him. The thing i missed the most though was the Spacing guild, but apart from that the other things you brought up were not necessary to tell the story of Dune.
Great action movie. This is not a compliment.
But quite a lot of people have enjoyed it very, very, very much- that's nice.
I liked it
nah, bad takes. read the book if you want every detail. they have to fit DUNE into two sub three hour movies, its an impossible task but they were pretty successful. most of their changes were necessary to keep the story coherent and the movie digestible.
No Navigators, No High liner understood, it just wasn't Dune. Just a Visual spinoff of eye candy.
Like a brief abridged version.
So many shallow reviews from shabby minds.
Disagree completely. It's very difficult to adapt Dune into the big screen and they did an amazing job. You can't cram everything into the movie and expect people to understand everything, heck even if they did you'd be disappointed for another reason for example not giving everything enough time. The movie is already 3 hours long dude. Nice bait tho
Just because you disagree doesn’t make it right, not to mention you didn’t even make any counterpoints 😂😂😂😂😂 how sad. Go glaze this horrible film
It's simply not as good as Lynch's version. The barron... un threatening, mild mannered, comes across as an office manager. The emperor is like a drunk grampa, no opulance or decedence... zero world building, bland set design its flat boring very bland dreary and dull. sure good cinema and cgi as youd expect from money being thrown at it. No spacing guild or Ix. As a huge Dune fan i have no immediate urge to ever watch it again. villeneuve is a great director, but he missed the mark on this adaptation.
Crazy that so many people strongly disagree with you.
100% agree with you on the emperor bit. They built him up so much in the first movie but by the 2nd movie he never seems to be cunning or interesting in any way. I don’t think walken fit the role either, in the books the emperor is supposed to look youthful due to spice abuse and here he just seems a bit old and pathetic esp the scene where he is forced to kiss the ring. The ring kissing scene would have worked so much better as a payoff if they had actually made him seem more involved or threatening.
Sounds like you never read the book and now you're upset the actual author doesn't fit within the narrative of your nostalgic favoritism for a bad movie
Lynch's version has a ton of problems, especially the original release. They are just different problems. Lynch movie feels more like a complementary material to the book. This one can stand on it's own and drive many of the central points of the book by itself. I do somewhat like Lynch's movie too though.
sounds like your salty due to someone not liking something you like thrasherkid@@DeathmetalPersian
your not going find a better movie , so i got say this review is a little odd, Hollywood hasnt put anything out this good in at least 15 years and likely take that long to put another out of this quality considering how much garbage they have been putting out
There were people who gave bad reviews to movies like the godfather and the LOTR adaptations too. Nothing is ever going to be perfect enough for a contrarion looking for attention.
Go read the book then we’ll talk. Better be a contrarian than a simpleton.
@@Erad_Prime they are the same thing.
@@DeathmetalPersian that's not what the dictionary says, confirming that you are not a person who opens books. You should start with the first Dune.
@@Erad_Prime damn, you're an ass 😂 no wonder why you can't enjoy things
Excellent movie. Lynch was horrible and had no understanding of the lore.
No he did and he's said in interviews that he wasnt satisfied with it and didn't have final cut control and that it was a jumbled mess. He says he completely regrets taking the movie on. It's not that he didn't understand it it's that production was a mess and he didn't have final cut in his contract.
What lore?!
The same lore where Harkonnens know about worm riding from beginning?
Where Paul kills Baron all out of sudden?
Where Guild is non-existent?
Where Chani is complete moron?
What lore?! Dune: Part 2 literally r*ped the lore. It used it as toilet paper and then dismissed.