law school rankings are dumb
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- čas přidán 22. 07. 2024
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Like most other recovering prestige addicts, I evaluated where to go to law school primarily based on one thing and one thing only: the U.S. News and World Report (USNWR) law school rankings. The USNWR law school rankings has had legal education in a chokehold for over thirty years now, so it was a shock to everyone when law schools--including Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Berkeley, and Georgetown--began ceremoniously announcing that they were leaving the rankings (whatever that even means). In this episode, I wonder why a for-profit magazine's rankings has had such power and influence in legal education, dive into the methodology used by the USNWR, and contemplate whether these explosive mic drops from (let's admit it, the top-ranked) law schools will have a lasting impact on the legal industry at all.
[timestamps]
0:00 - intro
1:52 - how we're conditioned to love rankings
12:05 - USNWR history & methodology
17:53 - but will it even matter?
[references]
law.yale.edu/yls-today/news/d...
www.law.com/2022/11/22/with-d...
www.usnews.com/education/best...
www.usnews.com/news/top-news/...
www.nytimes.com/2022/11/18/us...
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❓ F A Q s ❓
how old are you? 31 ('91 baby)
which schools did you go to? yale (undergrad) and harvard (law school)
what did you major in? economics
what was your gpa and lsat score? 3.86/176
what sign/MBTI/enneagram are you? aries, ENFJ, 3w4
are you sure you're not a virgo? no part of my star chart is virgo or an earth sign, i swear
As a current applicant who spends too much time on LSD and Reddit.. this is video is SUCH a treat 😅
i was totally there, too, haha
Genuinely thought you mean LSD as in acid for a second 💀
I love that you speak fast!
That's what drives me crazy with other podcasts, etc. Because even though you can speed up the podcast on the viewer/listener end: it's not the perfect solution.
dangit, okay, looks like i'll be going back to my usual pace next time. thanks for bearing with me as i experiment! 😅
Love everything on this channel. You, topics being discussed, the vibe, your knowledge and interesting /deep perspective. You are talking perfectly so no need to adjust to a slower speed. Would love to see more contents as Asian females in corporate America. Your perspective on the invisibility and breaking the stereotypes, how to survive and thrive, etc. Followed you since your tiktoks. Came for the law prep content initially and stayed for the wisdom ❤
thank you! i’m doing a full re-evaluation of my content come january and will definitely put that topic area into consideration. thank you again for watching!
yo i Love how fast you talk it's one of my fav parts of consuming your content haha
Love these episodes! Very informative! And i honestly prefer the fast speaking
thank you! and oh gosh, i guess now i'm gonna have to make an executive decision myself on how quickly to speak... eep!
Agree
Hi Cece, would you consider making an informative video for 1L’s on what to expect for their first year ?
I took a break studying from the LSAT and watched this. As always, so informative and articulate Cece! at the end, I am shooting for a t-14, because as you mentioned, the metric used to hire is simply that: ranking. My favorite line of all of this though was that "prestige is like a self replicating virus; you can try to escape it but its sheer virailty is the problem." We must face reality as it is; that doesn't mean we cannot strive to enhance it. But like you said, like capitalism, we can't just "escape" it--no matter how hippie we get about it lol
totally-the key is to do what you have to do but never forget what you wish you could have done ❤️
@@CeceXie listen I’m a musician, but that doesn’t pay the bills unfortunately 😔 but I just scored 23/24 on a practice LR section. So I guess that is one step closer to big law slavery 😂
Don't know if it's my ADHD but I like that you talk really fast, I can understand everything clearly.
same, I’m watching this on 1.25x 😅
Lol, definitely feel the obsessiveness. My knee-jerk reaction is to hop on the status page to check whether it shows 'street' or 'st' after hearing about this. Rankings are definitely useful. My biggest problems with the law school game right now is that the value system is so one-dimensional and exclusionary. Business schools have 5 rankings as I recall. There's not much problem with rankings and hierarchy per use. Still, without diverse value and competing ways of ranking schools, the game just become toxic. Oh and just fyi, I read a reddit comment by an alleged ASU Law admission officer that USNews send review sheets to lawyers and judges chosen by each law schools among their alumni. So it probably wouldn't be that much better than reviews by academics.
5:59 the number of posts on TLS has decreased and the number of reddit posts has increased in recent years is what I’ve noticed browsing both forums (a little too much)
first, loved this podcast ep. 👏🏽 you got me wondering what's next. i do agree that the law school withdrawals don't seem to mean much at the moment. however, my answer to the question of what choice do law schools have except to go with the current ranking system is to consider disruption. it would be impressive if those prestigious institutions that withdrew became early adopters of a new ranking system. others could follow, if they share the same frustrations. seen it happen in other fields. so interested to see how law will respond or if it truly won't matter.
THAT IS A FANTASTIC IDEA!! gosh, now i want to make a video about it
@@CeceXie thanks! looking forward to your future episodes!
Loved the video! Made my commute to school more enjoyable.
i'm so glad! :)
Love this video, it has been incredible helpful. Since you mentioned how to dress for classes, have you went over this in detail yet?
I have read various accounts online and some contradict each other. What is your experience with style expectations in L1 through graduation?
idk if i ever uploaded this onto youtube but i made a tiktok about the categories of outfits for law school! www.tiktok.com/t/ZTR4UewSD/
@@CeceXie thank you for this link! Your channel has been a blessing for people just getting into the field. Appreciate what you do!
it's more like being prom queen than valedictorian
I love your talking speed.
I have no association with the legal field whatsoever but I love your podcasts and videos! Can’t wait to read your upcoming book ! 😊
thank you!! that means the world to me
Do you think the law schools that are leaving the USNWR will by 2025 make the LSAT optional as well, and if so how do you think law school admissions will evaluate applications without the LSAT score.
i think it’s really up in the air-i’ve heard that some of the deans are talking about a new requirement to replace the LSAT. really too early to tell
Why is it about rankings and not about alumni base? Isnt that more important than anything??? Especially after graduation.
It’s not where you go it’s where you end up
Come on Harvard PR/ marketing! L o L. I'm so glad you're making these videos!
You talk pace is just fine IMO
paused this video to refresh my status checkers
Nice, thank you!! New sub.
your speed is totally fine haha idk who said talk slower
Law school rankings insofar as they reflect employment outcomes.
but it's BECAUSE employers like to rely on rankings as a proxy for competence. there's a feedback loop that's occurring that entrenches all parties
@@CeceXie many low ranked law schools are located in podunk location with few jobs. Also, demand for legal services as part of the economy has been dropping since the 70s. Some are better in employment outcomes than others. It’s not impossible to find one, but need to work harder.
If you love rules, you’d find university admissions in my country great.
There’s literally a mathematical equation for, that’s publicly availible.
The queen has spoken
Thank you for talking more slowly
Good Video
haha "recovering" prestige addict haha. Not trying to hate on you, but there is a difference between being post-prestige and completely changing your calculation of prestige. As someone who went to a number 1 ranked school, I can tell you there's no escaping it. You'll be competing against your peers on who can get into the most prestigious retirement home.
Me watching this video on 2x speed😅😅 (I do this with all videos)
relatable but i’m a 1.75x haha
Love your fast speech, no pauses, no “like, I mean,” etc.
i really enjoy your videos and learn from you but please talk slower
Glad to know we’re all a little crazy checking status checker every 7 minutes