Sodium battery with higher energy density than Tesla cells charges in seconds
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- čas přidán 24. 04. 2024
- Sodium battery with higher energy density than Tesla cells charges in seconds
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#tesla #sodiumbattery #charging #evnews
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I was becoming concerned that Sam was slipping. Three days have gone by without any “miracle new battery” being announced.
Sam wasn't about to let you down 😅
Ultra fast charging is not real. They will need to upgrade their 800V battery at least to 60000V
@@rwyo83 it will mean more efficient regen when braking which will increase the efficiency. For big powerful trucks this is awesome.
Rapid charging the x boxes plug and play vibrator is not as good as a pull string 2 or 4 stroke .
Xbox is what my lesbian friend calls her x
Sodium is the cousin of Lithium, I'm not surprised. People said that battery tech wouldn't improve, but here we are with LFP, mass produced Li-Sulphur and now Sodium-Ion. This is a breakneck pace.
It all depends on the research budget : zero, millions or billions. It makes all the difference.
@@michaelnurse9089 Western Research is very thirsty , they can ''eat'' 500 milion euro with effect close to ZERO :)
lfp (LiFePO) has been around for ages, they were just more expensive due to limited production, mainly because they were too bulky for the portable tech industry
i don't think they've evolved the tech all that much for evs, industry was just slow to realise of it's potential in the market
LFP is cheaper than lead now what are you talking about. 100 amp hours 135 bucks. Buy a comparable lead acid battery for that.
@@user-gu6ps6ed6l yes because price has dropped due to economies of scale
please re-read my comment, i said it's been around for a long time, it was expensive because of scarcity/limited production
You should be using the term “watt hours” as the term for energy. Watts is a measure of power. Power multiplied by time gives energy. So energy density is correctly called Watt hours per kilogram.
Aparantly, Sam doesn't read comments. I have told him the same thing many times, yet he consistently makes the same mistakes.
Indeed. The difference between watts and watt hours is like the difference between speed and distance. They are definitely related, but they are far from identical.
4 to 5 years for mass production? That's USA years. In Australia it would be 10 years; in Korea 1 year; in China 4 to 5 months.
In Africa ,never.
Haven’t heard of any plans to manufacture batteries in Australia but it’s possible Australia has all of the raw materials
Is that why China is still working on a man moon landing 55 years after the US, by your math it would have been accomplished at the turn of the 20th century.
@@michaelclement1337 PM Abanese announced plans to give a much-needed boost to local manufacturing and it specifically included EV batteries. Many countries, not just Australia, are wary of being too reliant on China.
Don't be to drastic :(@@ItisOKtobewhite
There are _hundreds_ of labs labouring to advance the current state of battery tech. Denser storage, faster charging, cheaper materials - it's _all_ being attempted, pushed & prodded. But ultimately, all that matters to the EV world is: Who can get better batteries to market, in an economically attractive and high volume way? That's all I pay attention to now. The co. with the best track record of rapid practical progress is still CATL.
Only a matter of time and batteries will be better than anything else.
Yes, what a wonderful future awaits us. Hundreds of millions of expired 500 kg toxic batteries to cope with. Many of the original Prius batteries have already gone into landfill in Australia.
Ultra fast charging is not real. They will need to upgrade their 800V battery at least to 60000V
What does that mean? What is "anything else?"
Agreed. Both my EVs 2023 R1T and 2024 Ioniq 6 have the "old school" ternary batteries.
Sodium is not only more abundant than lithium (400-500x) but is easier to extract and purify. This should drive down the price of lithium, and the cost of both battery types..
Sodium is actually more abundant than lithium.
@@jamesagerholm2034 that’s what I said 😉
@@joejdl I apologize on his behalf. He's from India and he didn't understand what you meant. To him, . . . not only more abundant = not more abundant.
@@joejdlmy bad
@@rogerfaint499I’m not from India, I just miss read the comment.
You missed an important thing, that it's wonderful. Also as supercapacitors, it has a capability of massive cycle retention. It doesn't degrade significantly after 5000 cycles.
I don't think more than 10C to be important for EVs as they can't discharge or charge faster because engines or high voltage chargers respectively. But cycles... a battery that doesn't degrade it doesn't matter how to treat it? Supercharge everyday? High acceleration? Don't problem. The battery can do that and more, as it's upper limit is 100C. An order of magnitude more.
The technology in the lab is the technology in consumer products in the coming decades, in the meanwhile, I’ll keep enjoying the electric tech of here and now in my phone and EV.
These days it's not decades, years, but 5-10 years. Just think about where we were only 15 years ago, and how fast things are moving today. It's exciting, but yes, it's a while away.
1. there are no HPC stations available to the currents in the lab 2. the amount of lithium in li-ion-cell is actually quite low, just replacing it does not make batteries cheaper 3. a higher energy density however does but that's not true if a you make a compromise with hybrid cell 4. where only part of the cell can actually charged fast - bottom linere: not sudden revolution around but it is good to see progress
It sounds like you're not just replacing lithium, you're replacing all the exotic metals in the battery with things like iron, sulfur, oxygen, nitrogen, carbon, and sodium. They all sound easier to source than things like cobalt.
I see the ,not to far off, day when solar power collection such as solar collecting paint + battery tech will reduce power station dependence by 80%. Only commercial accounts will exist. That will be a revolution.
The 60Ahr126S1P lithium iron phosphate blade battery in my Atto3 contains about 18Kg of elemental Li.
Telsa purchased Maxwell Technologies in 2019, a supercapacitor company. However, it sold it just two years later (now called UCAP, which also has licenses to Korean technology), presumably because they could not successfully integrate it into its production. The idea at the time was to use capacitors to capture and release energy from braking and acceleration (as well as fast charging) in order to reduce the heat and wear on the battery cells. It is interesting to see how, just a few years later it could return to cars, in a solid state sodium ion battery.
i thought they bought maxwell for the dry cell tech that they are using in their own batteries and that the super capacitor tech would be sold off .
We're looking at spending about $5k on a 48v 25kwh sodium battery for an off grid site. Just a year ago we got a lithium 3.6kwh for about $2k. Sodium-ion is literally the way to go from here on out. Also, we've had one of the manufacturing companies give us some projected numbers based on our current setup, and in about 14-18min on our solar array, vs the lithium at about 4-6 hours depending.
It sounds more like a capacitor than a battery.
This tech for cars, a cheaper even tech (lower density needed) for stationary storage, and a similar tech but with Lithium to get extreme density for aircraft. Best of all worlds.
Wow, it sounds like Lithium titanate except with a much higher energy density. I really hope this technology progresses.
Fantastic, another ground breaking battery technology! I've probably missed many of them since last month... :D
Eventually, one of these might get real.
To charge a 60kWh battery in 60 seconds would require a charger capable of delivering 3.6MW of power.
And this type of battery could deliver that...
@@DarylOsterWe might finally get a M3 Performance with 3.6MW of power, that's 2600 hp.
- Charges in seconds - Yes, small cells perhaps, not in seconds when charging 400V/800V 100kWh EVs battery even in theory. Everyone could calculate how much power is needed to charge 100 kWh battery pack from 10% to 90% in few seconds.
If even the charging power is not an issue, then put in your mind 10 cars in line and charge all of these at the same time, how much power is needed then to get these "few seconds" situation?
Few seconds? No, It is impossible in real world..
@@iSot80 At each charging location, there could be one or two Superquickchargers, which have those types of batteries in them. They could then charge one car in a few seconds from their own batteries, without needing that much power from the grid. Once the car is charged, they could recharge themselves from the grid within 5 minutes, preparing for the next car to arrive.
Of course, to deliver that much power to a car, massively redesigned cables, plugs and ports would be needed. But, in theory...
@@valuemastery In theory, but it is far away from the reality. In my opinion, Much more convenient is just swap the battery to full in 3-5 minutes. There is also created already technology where car will swap the battery itselfs and owner could leave the car to parking place (toilet, shopping, eating etc) and this technology is already here for this there is no need for ultra high sci-fi systems and cables or Evs which support this very high massive power.
The sheer amount of research being conducted globally is really pushing battery tech further than many people have imagined possible and is really exciting. Commercialosing the tech is always the difficult & most expensive part the pace of progress is really positive.
The battery may only charge in a few seconds, but I have a hard time believing we'll see megawatt chargers any time soon.
As prices drop the charging statuons could use these batteries as well, making stress on the grid less of a problem by recharging slowly or when solar and/or wind power is abundant.
4-5years for mass production Solid State batteries with energy density 370Wh/kg , 10years for future batteries with energy density above 500Wh/kg . I got a hope that any EV SUV in 2028 will have small battery 120kWh and LR battery 170kWh as a standard .
My understanding is that the Key benefits to look for is that the sodium battery can operate in colder temperature and less likely to catch fire due to not needing rare earth minerals.
As far as charging time and density, hopefully that will develop on its own.
The final solution might be a hybrid or combo of sodium and lithium batteries.
Great, yet again another miracle battery that changes the world! I won't hold my breath.....
The new in research LiFE doped batteries are at 770w/kg. much much higher than these sodium batteries, but can not charge as fast, but still faster than anything today. Maybe many different chemistries for different driving needs.
There's no such element as E.
@@yggdrasil9039 Elephantine?
Or a hybrid EV with both types on board - fast charging batteries for adding 75 miles in a minute and the slower batteries for the very rare times more than 75 miles are needed in any given day - assuming the fast charging sodium batteries have less density. If they have the same density and cost (or lower) than they will rule the scene.
A workable version of this battery would indeed be a game changer, however the amount to electrical current needed to do the fast charging cycle would be staggering, equaling about 10 times current KW charge rate.
Sounds like the battery Robert Murray Smith came up with around 5-6 years ago on his channel, he called it a blade battery but was developing it from an initial video he did as an experiment.
You need some 1980s infomercial style graphics for your videos, "GAME CHANGER!" "CHANGE THE GAME" "promising technology"
Short leather jackets, Z90 sound effects, vector graphics, big hair styles. Yup that's perfect.
We are going to need charging cables that will nhandle all these Amps and charging speeds! I see cables the size of fire hoses, and battery storage the size of a warehouse like Costco stores.
JUST IMAGINE WHERE BATTERY TECH WILL BE IN TEN YEARS . HOPEFULLY A SMALL BATTERY WITH LOTS OF POWER FO AN EV .
Sodium ion is best for Stationary storage.
Yep
Cycle life is the key information missing, I hope they can work that out to be very long life.
There are so many laboratory improvements / breakthroughs; kind of like the proverbial 'dog biting the man'. What we need is the 'man biting the dog' where one of these breakthroughs achieves large scale commercialization. That would be real news.
Great News!!!
Home chargers would not likely exceed 6000 watts so about 10 hours would be needed because of the home wiring limits no matter what the battery could accept. If a roadside charger could deliver 100,000 watts at least 1/2 hour would be needed.
All good sounding, it is just frustrating hearing of possibilities as they take years, ages, to come through to easily purchasable items. Meanwhile the idea there may be much better coming soon puts people off buying what is here and now so as to avoid a mistake and have an outdated pile of junk.
It's a VERY interesting and promising technology, especially for small devices (if it proves cheap, reliable, durable, and stable). However, it's a non-starter for car batteries, as the necessary power draw would simply blow out your home fuse box if you tried to fast-charge such a car at home, or melt the connection to a public charging station if you had a couple of cars trying to fast charge at the same time. Some solution to these issues MIGHT be possible in future, but it will require a radical rethink - and probably a LOT more copper cabling for power connectors.
Capaceters are used for many thing . Ussually for startup for hi draw motors using higher voltages through the capacitor . So they are fast to charge and discharge . They have been around a long time . A common place you may see them us in your airconditioner .
If you could employ them into battery technolugy that you get the benifit of fast charge but eliminate the fast discharge you maybe onto sonething . Maybe they can be used to provide higher voltages to a ev motor when first engaged to lessen the amount used by the batteries . Now high voltage capacitors are dangerouse woth higher voltages .
Interesting.
There are lots of technologies out there. Some promising lab work with Lithium Sulfur and silicon batteries doped with other materials to minimize expansion.
Never read about breakthroughs in sodium ion. I always thought it was just a low cost option.
It is amazing just how fast battery tech in moving. This may or may not be the big find, but it will come, and sooner than most might think. I believe the infrastructure to get the power into the batteries will be the bottle neck though.
It’s little bit heavier just by how eletricviking describe it. But with super capacitors and its conductivity I think it’s going to be suitable for those big wind turbines, if there’s ever a need for continuous spin of the turbine to keep maintenance down, or at a constant speed with EV regen breaking type of technology
Great! We might have this kind of battery in about 20 years 🙂
Some said . . . .200 years . . . .
Apparently, firefighters are attending one Lithium fire per day in Victoria. The sooner they ban these cheap sub standard Lithium batteries the better. As I said before, Lithium is all but finished and is on borrowed time. Thanks Goodness.
And how many started with the humble candle, children playing with lighters,, mosquito coils, short circuits, nicotine addicts?
fats charging in seconds would be incredibly hard to do unless the voltages are very high. to load 80 kwhrs in 10 seconds at 800 volts you need 28800 kw / 800 = 36000 amps . in 100 seconds it's 3600 amps still huge in 3 minutes it's 1200 amps so getting possible in 5 minutes it's 720 amps. that's doable if the battery can accept the full charge current for the full 5 minutes.
Have you looked into Hyliions Karno Generator? Was technology GE first developed but sold to hyllion.
Perhaps we could have a battery-supercapacitor combination controlled by a BMS algorithm that diverts current from the supercapacitor after the charge level of the battery reaches 80%. The supercapacitor would store the equivalent of 20% of the battery. While the battery is taking on its charge the supercapacitor would also be accepting charge. When the battery reaches 80% SOC the BMS would stop the charge. The supercapacitor would already be at full charge. The vehicle could then be removed from the charger and either driven away or parked nearby while the supercapacitor slowly tops off the battery. It wouldn't matter how slow the final 20% charge rate is on most EV's. This could be pretty much invisible to the EV owner.
sodium batteries have the problem of expansion and don't last the same amount of cycles that li-ion do yet. so they have a couple of huge hurdles to get over still.
Looks promising
The amount of lithium, or sodium, in batteries, is very tiny. The main minerals are: aluminum, copper and nickel, so replacing sodium with lithium, doesn’t change the price much at all.
When its available I will believe it, great being in a lab, but unless it meets mass production then it's worthless and i will just wait for catl to sell there's as a home battery
If this can be commercialized, then you would be able to charge your car in less time than it takes to fill a gas tank.
The best battery tech would be a cell that can function like the current LFP, but have 100% recyclable chemistry and are cheap to do it. Personally I believe LR EV'S have enough range for 95% of drivers in the world. Infrastructure is the problem.
Need to get real.
The average EV uses about 15KWhr per 100km. Typical daily use of a private motor vehicle is less than this (60km), but lets assume 100km and 15KWhr.
15KWhr can be delivered to the vehicle in ten hours at the 1.5KW rate.
In Australia a standard GPO is rated at 240V 10A so is readily able to deliver 1.5KW.
Consequently if you plug your EV into a standard GPO at 9PM your vehicle will have received sufficient energy for the following day's motoring by 7am.
Most EV manufacturers as recommend fully charging once a week. This can be achieved by giving the vehicle a long charge on weekends, or the occasional fast charge at a commercial DC fast charger.
In practice I have found DC fast charging only necessary about once every two or three months. The rate the DC charger delivers is pretty much immaterial as far as I am concerned, as long as it can do 50KW I am happy. I can usually get to 85% in about 15 minutes, take the car home and do the final top up to 100% on AC.
Whenever I hear an announcement of battery technologies that charge very quickly, it always seems to me to be addressing half of the problem. If a battery could receive, say, 50KwH in 2 seconds, what could deliver such energy so quickly? That would be an interesting power grid. Maybe store energy in local batteries that could discharge 50KwH in 2 seconds? And what of the cables etc. Mind you, a great solution to half the problem would be better than no solution to any of it.
Lithiun battery: Safe..
Charging time - 2 or 8 hours
Low/high temperature - may stop working
I can imagine with this quick charging,, that the battery size could be half, and thus half the weight, what ever the density is, and with what I call a charging plate on the bottom of car, one could simply pull up to and in this case, directly over a charging station panel, and never even have to get out of the car to hook up charging cables.
The ceiling limit is the grid capacity to deliver such rapid charging, even more so as the EV market grows along with increase is capacity, when you are looking at single car charging at 500kw to be able to charge quickly multiplied be the EV, that like to big a number to even happen in any large charging allotment
I think onsite batteries that can help with peak loads will become more and more common. They can be charged at a consistent sustainable rate, while the car charging is way more up and down.
This tech should belong to America.
Sodium battery: Safest..
Charging time - 15 minutes
Low/high temperature - fine
Isnt this place that made false claims of a room temp superconductor?
It will be commercially available... in 15 years ?
Another game changing EV technology. Yippee!
Game changer
GAME CHANGER
The game is DIFFERENT
CHANGE!
The Electric Viking, You're the best! I just had to subscribe!
Game changer
Morning mate
Science continues to surprise mankind
About time soduim shows it's true skills😊
lol. Mmmmm, salt. Sadly, these batteries are made of Sodium metal.
@@dianewallace6064 bummer. End of life for soduim batteries would have gone very well with 🍟. If what u stated wasn't true.
@@natenut1694 Mmmm, yummy fries🍟. Hold the Lithium please on my fries.
@@dianewallace6064 haha😂
Ever heard of the Prieto battery? Also charges in 2 or 3 minutes..
Definitely be buying a car with sodium, so much better for environment
I'm going to need a acronym for that..
Sodium is a highly reactive metal. Will this battery be a fire hazard?
Just put the best, new batteries into cars & transport, then when their cycles are done for that purpose, use them in home batteries for cheap, or grid aplications in bulk. Then the flow-through to environmentally friendly will happen, just give it time to mass produce and be cost effective.
Yeah just like Fusion Power is right around the corner. Problem is that corner will be turned in the year 2167.
Instead of developing new batteries.. I agree they should work in super capacitors.. only down side is range but they will be able to charge up in 1 second 😎😎😎😎😎😎👍👍👍👍
A car with supercapacitors will have a range of 10 miles..
This flies in the face of every other source of info on sodium ion batteries, that shows sodium ion are inferior to lithium in every way except cost
If Na is better than Li, even a high schooler can predict K (potassium) is next. Love being a spectator of this lab science 🧪
Is there any video of how totaled EVs are recycled?
4:54 Watt per kg is not Energy Density (should be Watt-hour per kg)
If they can charge in seconds we’re gonna need high tension 11,000 volt cables to every home. 😂
Only if they need to be charged in seconds. But they don't need to, they only can.
You’re probably right… current EV batteries are degraded by fast (45 minute) charging. Glad that engineering challenge is behind us.
I like it. However to charge a car at that rate the charging station power lines would need to be more hefty than a 300 kW charging station. The only way I can see this working is if the charging station also had capacitors like right next to the vehicle while charging.
I suggest you do a video on Generation IV nuclear power plants, using molten salts and Thorium.
FFS that's a can of worms. US should have invested in that after 1968 when the oak ridge experiment was successful.
If it makes it to production, with few seconds charging, there won't be a need for a big battery. Even a 200mi/300km range would be enough.
👍👍
AI is being used in labs now to create virtual batteries and chemistry that will lead to rapid increases in battery density and charging speed. The EV adoption speed is about to hit its second leg up rapidly.
I take this all with a grain of salt.
Hopefully this makes it from lab to fab
I don't understand it ether but if it work great
To charge a 100kWHr battery in one hour the charge rate needs to be 100kW, but to charge a 100kWHr battery in one minute would require a charge rate of 6MW. To charge the battery in, say, 10 seconds would require a charge rate of 36MW -- where is that going to come from? Imagine a refilling station with, say, 16 charging ports each charging at 36MW, the amount of power required would be 576MW, which is a substantial fraction of what a large power plant can produce.
Great for stabilizing the grid!
Ultra fast charging is not real. They will need to upgrade their 800V battery at least to 60000V
sam where are the articles on Fraunhofer paste why has the company stalled where is the info on the best candidate for a clean future
Actually 3 min is good enough considering how special chargers you must have.
I read or hear "hybrid" - I swipe left.
Rapid charging is utterly meaningless if you can't deliver the charge to a car rapidly. Just look at the size of a 350kw charging cable and this should be obvious. The reason it is so thick and enormous is that amount of current has to be insulated and actively cooled because the amount of heat given off. And in your car, to receive that charge there would have to be similar precautions to regulate the flow to what your vehicle can safely receive due to heat and existing state of charge. So it's all well and good to say "oh we can charge a battery in 10seconds", but it doesn't mean it will happen in practice, at least for private passenger vehicles. Maybe there are some niches were super rapid charging is desirable and worth paying through the nose for it but I doubt it will be cars any time in the forseeable future unless swappable batteries become a thing.
Only supercapacitor can charge to 100% within seconds but its energy is low. How can you charge a battery having 60 kWh of energy in few seconds ?
love the crazy news let's hope it's true
Good luck getting the Wankpanzer fixed. The insurer will probably go bust.
CATL has just literally said that a solid state battery is not possible in the overseeable future.
That is correct. These are semi-solid state, they still have liquid on the one side.
Don't forget that the claims by both Viking and CATL are situational. For example. They could charge superfast, and be fully solid state, but end up only being used for stationary storage for years to come. If I remember correctly. CATL was referring more to EV batteries in these next few years than all solid state battery use for the next decade.
They literally didn't. That was an article sculpted to seem that way but what CATL said was that the western companies boasting of having them almost ready are probably lying because he knows how hard they have and are working to make one.
The difficult bit is getting the product from the lab to the factory
@@michaelclement1337 Yup. This is mostly important so we know that we have cheap and convenient solutions to look forward to in the coming decade, for those of us who don't have short commutes, or need EVs and home storage to be more affordable than they are right now.
I have a feeling in 10-20 years most people won't own cares, automated taxies will be plrentiful.
Charging in seconds will require extremely heavy power cables, or a huge battery voltage. I don't know what the happy medium will be🤔
Probably neither. Most current Proof of Concept research leads to incremental improvements in existing technologies, so the fluff is just how they draw investment.