They work out in the garage alone. One athlete said she was getting annoyed by her coach trying to get her to do things so she quit using the coach and did what the coach tried to get her to do. I wonder if she sent that coach a thank you for giving her the advice that helped her have a great competition?
I saw an ad with Tia in it. She and Rogue wanted regular fitness enthusiasts to pay to do a workout alone so elite professional athletes could have more prize money. It's disturbing to say the least. I wonder how many people sign up to be used that way?
Ive said this for years. CrossFit is not supposed to be a professional sport. It's counterintuitive to the methodology. There is a microcosm around Madison but it's pretty much saturated. It's not going to grow beyond a certain reach because it doesnt have mass appeal.
It’s a sad day for myself. I couldn’t find issue with one statement made. Restructure to drive people to the affiliates to be a part of the opens. Select locations to host semi’s and pay them for it, us seminar staff to judge, and let HQ pay them, then run the games on CZcams and all media must be members or owners of an affiliate.
6:32 I was going to make this point but you beat me to it. Back in the olden days the regionals and Games level athletes were generally people who trained at an affiliate. Your local firebreather had a reasonable shot. Those days are gone. I’m sure part of it is evolution and it is what it is. But the connection we had with the athletes is gone
2012-2014 there were 12 Regionals for US/Canada. Each Region with 50 individual men/women invite, and 30 teams. So, that's 600 individual men and women qualifying and 300 teams to compete in person. Now we are getting 80 individuals and 60 teams I think (forget what the current team alotment is) for the same area. There used to be much more of a connection to the affiliate level, every few gyms had someone who could get into an in-person big competition. Now we've got of the 80 or so who qualify, probably half of them are sandwiched into these training camps/teams, leaving maybe 40 spots available fro the entire US and Canada for people that might come from actual affiliates. 2012 there were what, maybe 3,000 or so affiliates in North America, so a regional spot per every 5 gyms or so, now we have, lets just say double that in affiliates in North America, it's probably more, but say 6,000 affiliates with maybe 40 athletes who are going to make it not coming from a camp, so we went from say a 5:1 affiliate to athlete ratio heading to regionals, to 150:1 or more. Few people care at the affiliate level because the connection to the athlete is gone. It was cool for people to be able to train at the same gym, maybe even take class here and there with people who were competing at the upper ends of the sport. Now the upper end of the sport has drastically diminished from the number of spots available so the connection from the people in the affiliate is gone. @hillerfit
Exactly right. They came from affiliates rather than all joining training programs that purge money away from affiliates and coaches. Most of the athletes selling training programs don’t even have any coaching experience which I find WILD
As a spectator I loved knowing the games athletes were “normal” people but times change. Everything is elite which is also cool but not relatable 🤷🏽♀️
Man, I am a personal trainer right now that got my start doing Crossfit, I started in like 2012 when everything started really blowing up. Most of what I do is based around what I learned in the first 3 years and the people I learned from and is serving me EXTREMELY well, community, progress, and growth. I'm working at a box gym that got bought by a corporation and what you have been highlighting in the recent vids has been the EXACT issues that I have been having a moral dilemma with recently, leveraging the user interaction with the larger goal(making money). To those having deep thoughts about what's happening and what to do........ things are changing, embrace and prosper, or go find new pasture's. Thanks Andrew for talking about issues that trod through muddy water and please keep going, best wishes to you and all the people having the same issues.
Totally agree. The Games doesn’t represent the affiliate anymore. CrossFit should sell off the games (now the groupings are separated it should be easier to do) and leave the sport to the sportspeople. The affiliates don’t need the Games. It’s time to see if the Games needs the affiliates.
2020 Games were my favorite. (Not all the circumstances) but 5 athletes. Programming and time frame was much better. I don’t have a cable subscription. I watch smart tv apps and phone. And still on board with no Games. Let rogue, wodapalooza etc have competitions.
I’m a coach at an affiliate, and it’s easy to spot people obsessed over Games stuff. I used to be that way. But then I actually started to care more about the people.
@@hillerfit good question: I’d say I’ve personally seen it in myself, but in one of your videos you harped on this one, it’s the hyper fixation on yourself any conversation you have, you want to talk your squat clean PR, or your workout you did at open gym. It’s also the emphasis on your own personal goals and your own programming vs the programming and goals of the affiliate. And there are a lot of affiliates out there that put an emphasis on competitions and going to the games vs. the oldest member and how they’re killing the fat man.
@@hillerfit last thing I’ll say is this, in these days, CrossFit went from unbuyable to buyable. You see it with training camps instead of affiliates, Glassmans methodology, and emphasis on no carb no sugars, and pushing back big soda, that’s unbuyable
Rogue takes over the Games Championship, with one in the US and one in Europe (French Throwdown). Teams and individuals rotate every year. Loud and Live runs the Semifinals (Madrid, WZA west coast, Granite Games). Crossfit runs the Open and quarterfinals, with direct qualification also available from sanctioned events. (Dubai, WZA Miami, TFX, German Throwdown, ect).
I heard an idea on the Sevan podcast that I really liked - a portion of the Open registration fee goes toward the affiliates that they have signed up under. So the more athletes your affiliate signs up, the more money they make too.
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely loved watching the games with the exception of 2023. Love it. But I would be more excited for February/March if it meant something again. Then to see affiliates hosting elite competition..can you imagine the draw from that? Small towns where residents don't know there's even a box would show up to spectate. Military towns like where I am..Holy hell. It would be amazing. Also, when is the NOpen 2.0?
While I like the in person spectacle of the "Woodstock" of fitness, I think that the 2020 games with the top 5 Male and females competing at the ranch was the best games to watch.
Glassman always said that the games were not profitable. The games aren’t going to grow as everyone wishes they would. I wish they would have stayed like they were at the ranch. These athletes that solely rely on going to the games for making money need to start thinking about what they would do if the games went away tomorrow. I miss the days where the open mattered. And remember when the affiliate that the athlete trained at would all show up at the games for them. Now. None of these high level athletes train at an affiliate anymore. They should just stick with keeping the open. I could rant about this subject for days.
Bro! This is so next level. There was a growing and what now is a huge disconnect between the Games, the affiliates, and what is CrossFit. I loved the Games, but if all the high-level “CrossFit” athletes are just fitness specialist vs “constantly varied” like the rest of us, are the Games even a showcase for CrossFit?! Then again, I guess PRVN, HWPO, Etc can affiliate and do their own bastardized version of CrossFit. If I were an affiliate, I’d vote to push those affiliate fees toward media and marketing for the affiliate instead of the Games. Maybe use some of that money to send media teams to local events showcasing local CrossFit athletes and highlight the great work the affiliates are doing in the area.
The games have gotten to complex it used to be we could mimic the games but that’s not the case anymore. Also people like Briggs Fronning Jason where all about CrossFit you knew that even if there was no games they’d still push it like it was the games
Out of the hundreds and hundreds of members I had in my affiliate over a decade, 2 came in because they saw the CrossFit games somewhere. 2 I would say the Games deter more people from starting than bring them in, and competitive CF athletes don’t want to pay affiliates for memberships or do class. I was contacted by a games athlete years ago, she said she would tag the gym in posts and somehow that was as good as actually investing and joining the community. I said “pass”
The games are also what caught my eye, but it wasn't what brought me in. That was watching the BTS and all the other content that was being made early on. I thought, wow, this is cool and I'd like to try it. That got me to look for an affilate. So really it wasn't the games, it was Sevan, Heber, Marston and athletes like Sara and Sam.. they gave a shit.
The only way that The Crossfit games, or if we can call it " Competitive Sports of Crossfit," can be engaged with the community worldwide is to do worldwide events in different locations for different levels and modalities, just like what Hyrox and Dekafit are doing. The current structure is all about serving 40 athletes and giving them 99% of the attention, ignoring all that generates 100% of the guaranteed annual revenue for Crossfit.
For the good of the sport and for the good of the community, the Games should probably end with CrossFit still doing the Open and maybe, as AH suggests, a limited Games. Perhaps they do a limited 100 athlete field out of the top 100 worldwide from the Open, where they send highly qualified, paid judges to judge them with video. Then out of that, you take the top 5 or 10 who compete with one another for the "Games" event. In reality, the sport needs to move to a model similar to Golf or Tennis. CrossFit is an individual sport at its core. Most people tune into the Individuals and not teams. So, what we should have is 3-4 event yearly that the best athletes go to and compete like the Masters, US/British Open, and PGA Championship. Then, as an athlete, you can win a "Major" and have your greatness be defined by the amount of Majors you won. Athletes can be ranked. Can make money at smaller events with bigger prizes at larger events. The Rogue Invitational, Wodapalooza, The Games (updated version), Dubai or Australia come to mind. Then we have the Functional Fitness Tour (FFT) where athletes gets ranked based on performance and we really know who is the fittest. Let those events with their sponsors build it up. You think Nike might get on board at that point? The potential issue is that CrossFit is probably the most physically demanding sport than any other. It is hard to compete at multiple events competitively throughout the year and still make progress in training. In a 52 week calendar year, you might get 10 weeks of training per quarter (assuming 1 week tapers at either end). Maybe that's enough. Maybe it's not. Maybe you compete at some events. Maybe you don't. I think it would make the sport a hell of a lot more interesting and it would make HQ more profitable. The problem is can HQ share the spotlight?
Excellent video/thought. Would be a good follow-up video to share ideas for how you’d reinvest the money saved from eliminating the Games back into supporting the affiliates.
I LOVED the 2020 games because it felt like you took the top of the top and pinned them against each other and you knew the fittest won. You got to watch all 10 athletes the whole weekend and become extremely invested! Would love if that’s what the games became!
Solid points. I'd push back on youtube views equating to success. Real sports, even semi-pro like UFC don't rely on youtube for monitization. Are you suggesting that crossfit will never be a "real" sport and it's time to invest in the affiliates instead? What about paid content only like rogue attempted for the invitational?
Kind of random thought here, but I'd love to see an intermediate affiliate-driven competition (Let's call it the Affiliate Games) every year where qualifying athletes would come from outside the top % of athletes from the open BUT, they CANNOT qualify if they either 1: have qualified for the CrossFit games in the past (Unless the qualification was from the Affiliate Games) and 2: they don't have 15 written witness forms that they train consistently with their affiliate. Additionally, the winner of this competition will then qualify for the following year's CrossFit games, and cannot return to the affiliate games unless they fail to place above 25th in any event from the CrossFit games.
Could even be temporary…. Let’s say you build the affiliates back up and we add 10 million new CrossFitters and 5 thousand more affiliates like they have said they want to… that would allow you to grow the games back up to what it was/is. I will say though, The CF Games has brought in more than 1% of members, and people back in 2013/14 were seeing it on ESPN. In fact we recently had a 70 year old lady come in and start personal training and she said she somehow saw the CF games and that’s how she knew about what we do and it interested her. I know that’s far fetched but it’s true haha . Love the content, there are definitely some good points made here Hiller.
Making the gears turn with this one. If the games were "out" it would leave the rest of the year open to WZA, Invitational, Crash, Charlotte Classic, ETC to grow their comps and more options for fans to go to. Games are great but I do get what you're getting at here. Very interesting ideas gonna come from this 🤔
Also if this is going to happen you need them to make this change before another major sponsor is bought in like Nike how can push the sports sides profile and then the sport is bigger than the affiliates and bring more money in.
Good analysis. Only piece missing is an acknowledgement the games are, by and large, poison for the affiliates. This circles back to why CF dispensed with the media team….
I first joined CrossFit in 2013 and I stayed in that gym for about a year and then quit because I was a broke college kid, I never heard a word about the CFG. I started back up again August 2020 because a good friend opened a gym so I rejoined CF. I didn't hear about the games until March 2021 when the games began so I would say the games only attracts a small percentage who like watching competitive sports. I thoroughly enjoy seeing the women compete because I love knowing what we're capable of, but I never bother watching the men compete simply put they're not relatable to me as an athlete. And tbh I'd be more than okay not having to watch 5 Heats of the same event.
I own affiliates in Florida & Wisconsin. My sister lives less than 3 minutes from the Madison venue. I went to the games twice, left after about 30 minutes each time. I spend hours daily in my gyms. I love working with the young, old, fit, non-fit, 10 year veterans and first week newbies. If the Games dies, I could care less.
You may be right, be id never jave joined a CrossFit gym 9 months ago if the games didn't exist, and it would be different now becuase id still be doing it if they went away, just wonder if CrossFit slowly dies without it, i think you need to exitment and spectecale to get young people involved who dont already have anything to do with CrossFit
As a 10 year+ owner, this is probably the best explanation I have seen on this subject. Thanks Andrew. You not only pointed out a problem but you gave a logical solution!
This is a fair representation except for the most important reason for the dramatic cuts in 2017: $. The Games were exceptionally popular but NOT profitable. CF was spending $1 to make $0.58. They had not figured out how to effectively monetize the Games which was, as a result, a financial drag on other revenue streams (affiliate fees and certifications).
Agree - time for The Games to go. Even Greg said - if not for The Games he could have picked up another $50-100M on the sale. New CrossFit management is taking the Dr. Kervorkian approach to CrossFit. Make The Games bigger and convert to the franchise model. It'll be a short term money grab while CrossFit dies quickly.
As a cross fitter for over 10 years the affiliates don't do anything either. What have they done? Coach? Sure, but you know all the movements and they still charge close to $200 bucks a month when you can just go to your local gym for $50 bucks and still perform 99% of all the workouts etc. it's a joke.
I pay $200 a month to go to a box with open gym (except I have to workout around the classes), and never go to any classes, because they are so annoying and a waste of time. Unfortunately, there are no gyms anywhere nearby where I can do CrossFit type workouts.
Lets be honest here, most Games athletes don't care about the affiliate or the members or the community. Some of these guys don't teach or train anyone besides themselves, they offer the affiliates zip in return, and they don't even buy into the whole methodology. There are very few athletes that are doing those things like Noah for example working with the Mayor of Miami to get CF into the local park. You have someone like Rebecca putting out training videos and content for the community to train on. What you won't see is the big names like Mat or Tia opening an affiliate or giving back to the community. So I feel not one bit of grief if the Games just went away.
Manager of an affiliate since Day 1. 6 year anniversary literally today. CrossFit Sage. I’ve been to a town hall where Greg Glassman literally said the CrossFit Games is the biggest mistake he’s ever made in CrossFit. The looks of every affiliate there that had people going to regionals jaws dropped.
i think i remember spealler and several others saying in 2014 that the training methodology is not comparable to competing in the games. if training for the games is so different than for the regular populace i can understand why top athletes would train at more specialized spaces. is that line of thought far off?
One thing you didnt touch on its the extreme amount of categories at each CF games which receive 100x times less views than Individual category and are basically even more or a money dump. I get the whole idea behind inclusivity and all, but I wouldn't mind if the first step they take is to reduce the scope to just individuals.
Couldn't they divide affiliates into geographic regions, for quarter finals, semi finals like other sports do? Affiliates North, Affiliates East, West, South. Regional Competitions held in an affiliate gym. Then North vs South or East vs West Semi Finals, and then Finals held with podium athletes from the Semi Finals or top only 10-12 athletes. All held within an Affiliate facility. Seems like this would support the affiliate gyms.
If Crossfit can invest or even crowdfund a decent documentary about the Crossfit methodology, it can bring way more benefit than the annual Games documentary that nobody watches
So you finally Jelles Marrble RACING which sustained sports through Covid. It’s more than just marble racing, as there’s betting in Europe on it and you really have to get into it. At first, it looks dumb, but it’s more watchable than the CrossFit games frankly.
@@hillerfit it really is a great study in producing contentcontent and gaining a massive amount of followers, using your followers to help. They had about 6000 followers before Covid started and blew up to where they are now. Team O’Rangers representing! 🍊
I agree 100 percent. Just do the open all the way. If you want to do a games pick an affiliate and run it at a gym. Or build your own gym that accommodates games stuff.
Unpopular opinion it seems in this thread. However, as someone who is not part of any affiliate and works out at her own home gym… lives in the country, closest affiliates still too far… I absolutely love watching all the elite CrossFit events including the Games. I look forward to it every year. I consider it my favorite “sport”. I enjoy watching it just as I would a basketball game or football game. I do not want the events to go away, but I feel that marketing and business could be done better. If it had to be, if money is coming out in the affiliate side, what about paying like a paperview fee for the games themselves but leaving others like whadapalooza, Rogue and Semis free.. just a thought…. They do it for other fringe sports.
I completely agree with everything you’ve said. However…the games was supposed to be a showcase of CrossFit and a festival of fitness. I believe it was accepted it would be a ‘loss leader’. That is, it was accepted it would cost money but would help bring people in to CrossFit in the long term. Now the fact CrossFit have not marketed/promoted or whatever properly isn’t the point of the games. Do we still need it to act as a loss leader is the question? On a final note, your argument doesn’t account for the emotional element of the games. Personally, I have never been to the games. However I desperately want to go (both as a spectator and aspirationally I’d love compete). The games used to be something which every crossfitter could aspire to because we all took part in the open and that was how you got there. I also (and probably on the minority) get excited every games season. It is the only sport I watch and love watching it still (even when the programming is rubbish).
SPOT ON !!! And you did it with some great humor. Made me laugh at least 5 or 6 times. This is like stand up with Andrew Hiller. We need to get together for coffee sometime in downtown Hinsdale. Keep up the great work. Peace out
Your logic behind the math is correct - that is why the Regionals went away. Most of the Regionals lost money, which made the games an overall financial loser. While the Games are important as an advertisement, they need to make it profitable. I like your idea about the spectators being the cameramen, swarm the internet with volume!
Looking at the 2020 views is probably a mistake. Peak CoVID lockdowns worldwide. Everyone’s CZcams channels had spikes. There were a number of content creators that falsely thought that level of engagement would continue and quit their day jobs.
I wouldn't put too much stock into 2020. It was easily the most skewed year we have ever witnessed. A lot of commodities were being driven up or down that year due and I wouldn't bank on any of those numbers. Other than that fact, me likey on the idea.
You keep saying it doesn’t make sense - you need to add a cut snippet of Pete Holmes (comedian) 😂 he has a good skit about space and it not making sense but the way he says it.
One thing you forgot Andrew! Even the Affiliate cup thats meant for actual members is now infiltrated by super teams. Those people dont even go to those affiliates, its elite athletes who have minimal short @ the individual going over to bully affiliate teams.
LMAO! About 10k of the views on that marble race video had to come from me! We used to put that on for my son while we were trying to get him to eat! I personally LOVE the Games. I'd hate to see them go away. But man, have they been mismanaged for the last 7-8 years. I honestly think "LiStEnInG tO tHe AtHlEtEs" has caused a lot of issues. The athletes don't give AF about CrossFit or the Affiliates anymore. I miss the old days when athletes were affiliate owners and CrossFit media was a combo of them doing super human things and you're average guy/girl taking on a WOD. I don't think it's fair to compare viewership to 2020. Everyone was locked at home STARVING for some kind of live competition. Shit I even watched some Esport tournaments that year.
Meh. Nah dude. The games is one the coolest if not THE coolest parts of CrossFit. I don’t know how many people I’ve talked to at events as spectators and box members that got turned into CrossFit from the games streams or documentaries. That means more income for the affiliates. But I do agree they could get more efficient in spending
I want to see wild cards at the games from each division around the world. One card goes to some randomly selected person. The other card to a celebrity from each division. The games is just entertainment anyway.
The Games is already downsizing. Give it a few more years and this will probably be the end result. You can start preparing a "I predicted this 2 years ago" video now.
@@hillerfit Looks to me like *you* have worked out in your OWN gym/garage/owned box for a very long time. NO, as a regular affiliate MEMBER they are very uncool. Especially if you are experienced at weightlifting, sports, CrossFit and are not a dolt or sheep. Even worse if you are those things plus being a woman.
Haha Competitive CrossFit athletes don’t want to pay for a membership anyway.
This comment speaks for the entire video. Can’t believe I left that out
not only do they, often times, not want to pay. I've coached at gyms were they expected priority over the paying members for gym space/equipment.
They work out in the garage alone. One athlete said she was getting annoyed by her coach trying to get her to do things so she quit using the coach and did what the coach tried to get her to do. I wonder if she sent that coach a thank you for giving her the advice that helped her have a great competition?
I saw an ad with Tia in it. She and Rogue wanted regular fitness enthusiasts to pay to do a workout alone so elite professional athletes could have more prize money.
It's disturbing to say the least. I wonder how many people sign up to be used that way?
💯
Ive said this for years. CrossFit is not supposed to be a professional sport. It's counterintuitive to the methodology. There is a microcosm around Madison but it's pretty much saturated. It's not going to grow beyond a certain reach because it doesnt have mass appeal.
It’s a sad day for myself. I couldn’t find issue with one statement made. Restructure to drive people to the affiliates to be a part of the opens. Select locations to host semi’s and pay them for it, us seminar staff to judge, and let HQ pay them, then run the games on CZcams and all media must be members or owners of an affiliate.
Or use the money to help rebuild the media team and send some of them to the events?
6:32 I was going to make this point but you beat me to it. Back in the olden days the regionals and Games level athletes were generally people who trained at an affiliate. Your local firebreather had a reasonable shot. Those days are gone. I’m sure part of it is evolution and it is what it is. But the connection we had with the athletes is gone
2012-2014 there were 12 Regionals for US/Canada. Each Region with 50 individual men/women invite, and 30 teams. So, that's 600 individual men and women qualifying and 300 teams to compete in person. Now we are getting 80 individuals and 60 teams I think (forget what the current team alotment is) for the same area. There used to be much more of a connection to the affiliate level, every few gyms had someone who could get into an in-person big competition. Now we've got of the 80 or so who qualify, probably half of them are sandwiched into these training camps/teams, leaving maybe 40 spots available fro the entire US and Canada for people that might come from actual affiliates. 2012 there were what, maybe 3,000 or so affiliates in North America, so a regional spot per every 5 gyms or so, now we have, lets just say double that in affiliates in North America, it's probably more, but say 6,000 affiliates with maybe 40 athletes who are going to make it not coming from a camp, so we went from say a 5:1 affiliate to athlete ratio heading to regionals, to 150:1 or more. Few people care at the affiliate level because the connection to the athlete is gone. It was cool for people to be able to train at the same gym, maybe even take class here and there with people who were competing at the upper ends of the sport. Now the upper end of the sport has drastically diminished from the number of spots available so the connection from the people in the affiliate is gone. @hillerfit
Exactly right. They came from affiliates rather than all joining training programs that purge money away from affiliates and coaches. Most of the athletes selling training programs don’t even have any coaching experience which I find WILD
As a spectator I loved knowing the games athletes were “normal” people but times change. Everything is elite which is also cool but not relatable 🤷🏽♀️
Man, I am a personal trainer right now that got my start doing Crossfit, I started in like 2012 when everything started really blowing up. Most of what I do is based around what I learned in the first 3 years and the people I learned from and is serving me EXTREMELY well, community, progress, and growth. I'm working at a box gym that got bought by a corporation and what you have been highlighting in the recent vids has been the EXACT issues that I have been having a moral dilemma with recently, leveraging the user interaction with the larger goal(making money). To those having deep thoughts about what's happening and what to do........ things are changing, embrace and prosper, or go find new pasture's. Thanks Andrew for talking about issues that trod through muddy water and please keep going, best wishes to you and all the people having the same issues.
That first “oh well” edit sent me!! 😂
Totally agree. The Games doesn’t represent the affiliate anymore. CrossFit should sell off the games (now the groupings are separated it should be easier to do) and leave the sport to the sportspeople. The affiliates don’t need the Games. It’s time to see if the Games needs the affiliates.
Dude. We don't need to see. The games WILL NOT survive without the affiliates
30 seconds in, and I’m on board already. Let’s see how this goes
2020 Games were my favorite. (Not all the circumstances) but 5 athletes. Programming and time frame was much better. I don’t have a cable subscription. I watch smart tv apps and phone.
And still on board with no Games. Let rogue, wodapalooza etc have competitions.
I’m a coach at an affiliate, and it’s easy to spot people obsessed over Games stuff. I used to be that way. But then I actually started to care more about the people.
What do you notice in them and you?
@@hillerfit good question:
I’d say I’ve personally seen it in myself, but in one of your videos you harped on this one, it’s the hyper fixation on yourself any conversation you have, you want to talk your squat clean PR, or your workout you did at open gym.
It’s also the emphasis on your own personal goals and your own programming vs the programming and goals of the affiliate. And there are a lot of affiliates out there that put an emphasis on competitions and going to the games vs. the oldest member and how they’re killing the fat man.
@@hillerfit hopefully this makes sense. I can expound a little more
@@hillerfit last thing I’ll say is this, in these days, CrossFit went from unbuyable to buyable. You see it with training camps instead of affiliates, Glassmans methodology, and emphasis on no carb no sugars, and pushing back big soda, that’s unbuyable
Rogue takes over the Games Championship, with one in the US and one in Europe (French Throwdown). Teams and individuals rotate every year. Loud and Live runs the Semifinals (Madrid, WZA west coast, Granite Games). Crossfit runs the Open and quarterfinals, with direct qualification also available from sanctioned events. (Dubai, WZA Miami, TFX, German Throwdown, ect).
this won't even last a year. Sponsors support the Games for access to the affiliate community, not the Games community.
Empathizes. Not emphasizes.
Your the best thing about CrossFit these days. Love your content!
Damn, even sounds like Chase commentating on that Marbles Games video... Now I gotta go watch it, lol
I heard an idea on the Sevan podcast that I really liked - a portion of the Open registration fee goes toward the affiliates that they have signed up under. So the more athletes your affiliate signs up, the more money they make too.
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely loved watching the games with the exception of 2023. Love it. But I would be more excited for February/March if it meant something again. Then to see affiliates hosting elite competition..can you imagine the draw from that? Small towns where residents don't know there's even a box would show up to spectate. Military towns like where I am..Holy hell. It would be amazing. Also, when is the NOpen 2.0?
Brb…gonna start a marble racing media site.
While I like the in person spectacle of the "Woodstock" of fitness, I think that the 2020 games with the top 5 Male and females competing at the ranch was the best games to watch.
Probably can count on one hand how many athletes pay for a monthly affiliate membership
I'd bet you're right
Glassman always said that the games were not profitable. The games aren’t going to grow as everyone wishes they would. I wish they would have stayed like they were at the ranch. These athletes that solely rely on going to the games for making money need to start thinking about what they would do if the games went away tomorrow. I miss the days where the open mattered. And remember when the affiliate that the athlete trained at would all show up at the games for them. Now. None of these high level athletes train at an affiliate anymore. They should just stick with keeping the open. I could rant about this subject for days.
There's gonna be this outroar from the athletes! The PFAA will not stand for this! . . . Who cares?" Lol. Fantastic.
I agree with your take completely ! Now you will have athletes prioritizing the open and not stating that it does not matter.
Just make it matter more than ever.. again
Bro! This is so next level. There was a growing and what now is a huge disconnect between the Games, the affiliates, and what is CrossFit. I loved the Games, but if all the high-level “CrossFit” athletes are just fitness specialist vs “constantly varied” like the rest of us, are the Games even a showcase for CrossFit?! Then again, I guess PRVN, HWPO, Etc can affiliate and do their own bastardized version of CrossFit. If I were an affiliate, I’d vote to push those affiliate fees toward media and marketing for the affiliate instead of the Games. Maybe use some of that money to send media teams to local events showcasing local CrossFit athletes and highlight the great work the affiliates are doing in the area.
The games have gotten to complex it used to be we could mimic the games but that’s not the case anymore. Also people like Briggs Fronning Jason where all about CrossFit you knew that even if there was no games they’d still push it like it was the games
Now the athletes are "bigger than CrossFit"
@@hillerfitlove this comment 😂
Out of the hundreds and hundreds of members I had in my affiliate over a decade, 2 came in because they saw the CrossFit games somewhere. 2 I would say the Games deter more people from starting than bring them in, and competitive CF athletes don’t want to pay affiliates for memberships or do class. I was contacted by a games athlete years ago, she said she would tag the gym in posts and somehow that was as good as actually investing and joining the community. I said “pass”
You're a good dude. Disagree with you here though. The Crossfit games is what caught my eye and then got me into an affiliate.
Ditto
How when and where???
@@hillerfit honestly I think the games need more money and better sponsorship. Nobull was an awful choice as the main sponsor.
The games are also what caught my eye, but it wasn't what brought me in. That was watching the BTS and all the other content that was being made early on. I thought, wow, this is cool and I'd like to try it. That got me to look for an affilate. So really it wasn't the games, it was Sevan, Heber, Marston and athletes like Sara and Sam.. they gave a shit.
@@timothysutton1251 They over promised and underdelivered
Thank you! Since 3 hours I am looking Marbles racing.
The only way that The Crossfit games, or if we can call it " Competitive Sports of Crossfit," can be engaged with the community worldwide is to do worldwide events in different locations for different levels and modalities, just like what Hyrox and Dekafit are doing. The current structure is all about serving 40 athletes and giving them 99% of the attention, ignoring all that generates 100% of the guaranteed annual revenue for Crossfit.
The semifinals/quarterfinals or whatever in affiliates is actually a really good idea
For the good of the sport and for the good of the community, the Games should probably end with CrossFit still doing the Open and maybe, as AH suggests, a limited Games. Perhaps they do a limited 100 athlete field out of the top 100 worldwide from the Open, where they send highly qualified, paid judges to judge them with video. Then out of that, you take the top 5 or 10 who compete with one another for the "Games" event. In reality, the sport needs to move to a model similar to Golf or Tennis. CrossFit is an individual sport at its core. Most people tune into the Individuals and not teams. So, what we should have is 3-4 event yearly that the best athletes go to and compete like the Masters, US/British Open, and PGA Championship. Then, as an athlete, you can win a "Major" and have your greatness be defined by the amount of Majors you won. Athletes can be ranked. Can make money at smaller events with bigger prizes at larger events. The Rogue Invitational, Wodapalooza, The Games (updated version), Dubai or Australia come to mind. Then we have the Functional Fitness Tour (FFT) where athletes gets ranked based on performance and we really know who is the fittest. Let those events with their sponsors build it up. You think Nike might get on board at that point? The potential issue is that CrossFit is probably the most physically demanding sport than any other. It is hard to compete at multiple events competitively throughout the year and still make progress in training. In a 52 week calendar year, you might get 10 weeks of training per quarter (assuming 1 week tapers at either end). Maybe that's enough. Maybe it's not. Maybe you compete at some events. Maybe you don't. I think it would make the sport a hell of a lot more interesting and it would make HQ more profitable. The problem is can HQ share the spotlight?
Excellent video/thought. Would be a good follow-up video to share ideas for how you’d reinvest the money saved from eliminating the Games back into supporting the affiliates.
Also, there are enough big events now (Rouge, WZA, etc.), CrossFit Inc. doesn’t have to prioritize the fitness competition anymore.
“Subsidize what you want more of, tax what you want less of”
If there ever was a video to use the phrase “How do you like them marbles?” 😂
I LOVED the 2020 games because it felt like you took the top of the top and pinned them against each other and you knew the fittest won. You got to watch all 10 athletes the whole weekend and become extremely invested! Would love if that’s what the games became!
Solid points. I'd push back on youtube views equating to success. Real sports, even semi-pro like UFC don't rely on youtube for monitization. Are you suggesting that crossfit will never be a "real" sport and it's time to invest in the affiliates instead? What about paid content only like rogue attempted for the invitational?
Kind of random thought here, but I'd love to see an intermediate affiliate-driven competition (Let's call it the Affiliate Games) every year where qualifying athletes would come from outside the top % of athletes from the open BUT, they CANNOT qualify if they either 1: have qualified for the CrossFit games in the past (Unless the qualification was from the Affiliate Games) and 2: they don't have 15 written witness forms that they train consistently with their affiliate. Additionally, the winner of this competition will then qualify for the following year's CrossFit games, and cannot return to the affiliate games unless they fail to place above 25th in any event from the CrossFit games.
Could even be temporary…. Let’s say you build the affiliates back up and we add 10 million new CrossFitters and 5 thousand more affiliates like they have said they want to… that would allow you to grow the games back up to what it was/is. I will say though, The CF Games has brought in more than 1% of members, and people back in 2013/14 were seeing it on ESPN. In fact we recently had a 70 year old lady come in and start personal training and she said she somehow saw the CF games and that’s how she knew about what we do and it interested her. I know that’s far fetched but it’s true haha . Love the content, there are definitely some good points made here Hiller.
@hillerfit thanks for the mention in the video really appreciate that thanks so much! 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Making the gears turn with this one. If the games were "out" it would leave the rest of the year open to WZA, Invitational, Crash, Charlotte Classic, ETC to grow their comps and more options for fans to go to. Games are great but I do get what you're getting at here. Very interesting ideas gonna come from this 🤔
Sorry don’t agree I’m in the uk and most people find out about CrossFit from the games and I’d say it’s the same for most areas out side the USA.
Also if this is going to happen you need them to make this change before another major sponsor is bought in like Nike how can push the sports sides profile and then the sport is bigger than the affiliates and bring more money in.
Good analysis. Only piece missing is an acknowledgement the games are, by and large, poison for the affiliates. This circles back to why CF dispensed with the media team….
I first joined CrossFit in 2013 and I stayed in that gym for about a year and then quit because I was a broke college kid, I never heard a word about the CFG. I started back up again August 2020 because a good friend opened a gym so I rejoined CF. I didn't hear about the games until March 2021 when the games began so I would say the games only attracts a small percentage who like watching competitive sports. I thoroughly enjoy seeing the women compete because I love knowing what we're capable of, but I never bother watching the men compete simply put they're not relatable to me as an athlete. And tbh I'd be more than okay not having to watch 5 Heats of the same event.
I own affiliates in Florida & Wisconsin. My sister lives less than 3 minutes from the Madison venue. I went to the games twice, left after about 30 minutes each time. I spend hours daily in my gyms. I love working with the young, old, fit, non-fit, 10 year veterans and first week newbies. If the Games dies, I could care less.
You may be right, be id never jave joined a CrossFit gym 9 months ago if the games didn't exist, and it would be different now becuase id still be doing it if they went away, just wonder if CrossFit slowly dies without it, i think you need to exitment and spectecale to get young people involved who dont already have anything to do with CrossFit
As a 10 year+ owner, this is probably the best explanation I have seen on this subject. Thanks Andrew. You not only pointed out a problem but you gave a logical solution!
This is a fair representation except for the most important reason for the dramatic cuts in 2017: $. The Games were exceptionally popular but NOT profitable. CF was spending $1 to make $0.58. They had not figured out how to effectively monetize the Games which was, as a result, a financial drag on other revenue streams (affiliate fees and certifications).
Problem is…. I went off to watch the marble video. It was awesome 😂
DUDE RIGHT
This might be your best video, keep it up bro.
Thank you
Marble Olympics was peak covid entertainment 😂
Agree - time for The Games to go.
Even Greg said - if not for The Games he could have picked up another $50-100M on the sale.
New CrossFit management is taking the Dr. Kervorkian approach to CrossFit. Make The Games bigger and convert to the franchise model. It'll be a short term money grab while CrossFit dies quickly.
Wait, how does Dr. Kervorkian apply?
Mercy killing @@hillerfit
As a cross fitter for over 10 years the affiliates don't do anything either. What have they done? Coach? Sure, but you know all the movements and they still charge close to $200 bucks a month when you can just go to your local gym for $50 bucks and still perform 99% of all the workouts etc. it's a joke.
I pay $200 a month to go to a box with open gym (except I have to workout around the classes), and never go to any classes, because they are so annoying and a waste of time. Unfortunately, there are no gyms anywhere nearby where I can do CrossFit type workouts.
Got my HSTL sweatshirt. Love it, great suggestion and I like Craig and Jas.
14:23 “wrong way” 😂 great video. Completely agree.
Lets be honest here, most Games athletes don't care about the affiliate or the members or the community. Some of these guys don't teach or train anyone besides themselves, they offer the affiliates zip in return, and they don't even buy into the whole methodology. There are very few athletes that are doing those things like Noah for example working with the Mayor of Miami to get CF into the local park. You have someone like Rebecca putting out training videos and content for the community to train on. What you won't see is the big names like Mat or Tia opening an affiliate or giving back to the community. So I feel not one bit of grief if the Games just went away.
Thank you for voicing my opinion for years.
Affiliate owner?
Manager of an affiliate since Day 1. 6 year anniversary literally today. CrossFit Sage.
I’ve been to a town hall where Greg Glassman literally said the CrossFit Games is the biggest mistake he’s ever made in CrossFit. The looks of every affiliate there that had people going to regionals jaws dropped.
i think i remember spealler and several others saying in 2014 that the training methodology is not comparable to competing in the games. if training for the games is so different than for the regular populace i can understand why top athletes would train at more specialized spaces. is that line of thought far off?
Accurate
how much money do they make from ticket sales and from vendors at the games
I think I accounted for that in the 5-6 million where I didn't know lol
@@hillerfitthank you sir
Great video. I would love to see CrossFit methodology and affiliate pump up like the games.
Duuude the marblelympics mention was sick
One thing you didnt touch on its the extreme amount of categories at each CF games which receive 100x times less views than Individual category and are basically even more or a money dump. I get the whole idea behind inclusivity and all, but I wouldn't mind if the first step they take is to reduce the scope to just individuals.
Affiliate here. Love the funnel idea. Great videos! Keep it up.
Couldn't they divide affiliates into geographic regions, for quarter finals, semi finals like other sports do? Affiliates North, Affiliates East, West, South. Regional Competitions held in an affiliate gym. Then North vs South or East vs West Semi Finals, and then Finals held with podium athletes from the Semi Finals or top only 10-12 athletes. All held within an Affiliate facility. Seems like this would support the affiliate gyms.
If Crossfit can invest or even crowdfund a decent documentary about the Crossfit methodology, it can bring way more benefit than the annual Games documentary that nobody watches
So what I’m getting from all of this is, in Eric Roza’s reign of terror in 2020 he ran the most successful game’s season 😂
Well to be fair it is off the back of Greg's decisions. But yes lol
So you finally Jelles Marrble RACING which sustained sports through Covid. It’s more than just marble racing, as there’s betting in Europe on it and you really have to get into it. At first, it looks dumb, but it’s more watchable than the CrossFit games frankly.
I really enjoyed it. I had no idea it was a thing lol
@@hillerfit it really is a great study in producing contentcontent and gaining a massive amount of followers, using your followers to help. They had about 6000 followers before Covid started and blew up to where they are now. Team O’Rangers representing! 🍊
It’s amazing! 3D botmaker hot wheels is a fun watch as well.
I agree 100 percent. Just do the open all the way. If you want to do a games pick an affiliate and run it at a gym. Or build your own gym that accommodates games stuff.
I don’t give a shit about CrossFit, but you introduced me to marble races on CZcams, and for that the video gets a like
First person 🐠👀, Hiller are you Stockhome syndrome for Hstl made stuff? Please do video on their F1 trip?
Unpopular opinion it seems in this thread. However, as someone who is not part of any affiliate and works out at her own home gym… lives in the country, closest affiliates still too far…
I absolutely love watching all the elite CrossFit events including the Games. I look forward to it every year. I consider it my favorite “sport”. I enjoy watching it just as I would a basketball game or football game. I do not want the events to go away, but I feel that marketing and business could be done better. If it had to be, if money is coming out in the affiliate side, what about paying like a paperview fee for the games themselves but leaving others like whadapalooza, Rogue and Semis free.. just a thought…. They do it for other fringe sports.
I have to say the one exception to your content creator comments at the start is Bethany Shadburne Flores.
Dude, I get it that a CrossFit chick once broke your heart, and now you want revenge against all of CrossFit. But this isn’t the way.
I completely agree with everything you’ve said. However…the games was supposed to be a showcase of CrossFit and a festival of fitness. I believe it was accepted it would be a ‘loss leader’. That is, it was accepted it would cost money but would help bring people in to CrossFit in the long term. Now the fact CrossFit have not marketed/promoted or whatever properly isn’t the point of the games. Do we still need it to act as a loss leader is the question?
On a final note, your argument doesn’t account for the emotional element of the games. Personally, I have never been to the games. However I desperately want to go (both as a spectator and aspirationally I’d love compete). The games used to be something which every crossfitter could aspire to because we all took part in the open and that was how you got there. I also (and probably on the minority) get excited every games season. It is the only sport I watch and love watching it still (even when the programming is rubbish).
You left out the fact that it contributes to keeping some members interested (in continuing to be members).👋
This makes complete sense, leave the open and get rid of the games
SPOT ON !!! And you did it with some great humor. Made me laugh at least 5 or 6 times. This is like stand up with Andrew Hiller. We need to get together for coffee sometime in downtown Hinsdale. Keep up the great work. Peace out
You called it man
They definitely need to bring back the affiliate cup… but they have to reside and CrossFit at said affiliate.
Your logic behind the math is correct - that is why the Regionals went away. Most of the Regionals lost money, which made the games an overall financial loser. While the Games are important as an advertisement, they need to make it profitable. I like your idea about the spectators being the cameramen, swarm the internet with volume!
Sony A7IV!!!! Hell yea!!!!
Things Glassman figured out in 2016. 😂
But got wrong in 2011.
Greg said it multiple times the cfg was losing money every year
Why do you think Castro got slapped down by Greg? The year he flew all 80 athletes to the ranch was a massive loser.
Looking at the 2020 views is probably a mistake. Peak CoVID lockdowns worldwide. Everyone’s CZcams channels had spikes. There were a number of content creators that falsely thought that level of engagement would continue and quit their day jobs.
So, non-affiliate athletes are competing in the Cross-Fit Games?
Yes
Do you think the ESPN broadcast hurt the CZcams viewership this year?
Not at all. Because ESPN didn’t even broadcast it properly
I wouldn't put too much stock into 2020. It was easily the most skewed year we have ever witnessed. A lot of commodities were being driven up or down that year due and I wouldn't bank on any of those numbers. Other than that fact, me likey on the idea.
You keep saying it doesn’t make sense - you need to add a cut snippet of Pete Holmes (comedian) 😂 he has a good skit about space and it not making sense but the way he says it.
One thing you forgot Andrew! Even the Affiliate cup thats meant for actual members is now infiltrated by super teams. Those people dont even go to those affiliates, its elite athletes who have minimal short @ the individual going over to bully affiliate teams.
LMAO! About 10k of the views on that marble race video had to come from me! We used to put that on for my son while we were trying to get him to eat!
I personally LOVE the Games. I'd hate to see them go away. But man, have they been mismanaged for the last 7-8 years. I honestly think "LiStEnInG tO tHe AtHlEtEs" has caused a lot of issues. The athletes don't give AF about CrossFit or the Affiliates anymore. I miss the old days when athletes were affiliate owners and CrossFit media was a combo of them doing super human things and you're average guy/girl taking on a WOD.
I don't think it's fair to compare viewership to 2020. Everyone was locked at home STARVING for some kind of live competition. Shit I even watched some Esport tournaments that year.
I workout in my Garage, I enjoy the Games, but I'd get over it pretty quick if it wasn't there. Rogue is just fine.
Way too much of this video made sense, that must hurt Crossfit HQ that surely watched this
Meh. Nah dude. The games is one the coolest if not THE coolest parts of CrossFit. I don’t know how many people I’ve talked to at events as spectators and box members that got turned into CrossFit from the games streams or documentaries. That means more income for the affiliates. But I do agree they could get more efficient in spending
You should create a marble track. You would get views for sure!
Playing background video via Green screen not sure works. Very distracting.
Hilarious 😂😂😂
But true 👍
Oh yeah and love the hat
NoBull is responsible for the prize purse, not CrossFit. But regardless, the economics of CrossFit are a major issue.
I love this. I love it all
I want to see wild cards at the games from each division around the world. One card goes to some randomly selected person. The other card to a celebrity from each division. The games is just entertainment anyway.
the entire "state" of Madison.
Yeah I fucked that up big time lol
Is this why I got an email today saying that even though I let my L1 expire in '21, I can now jump into the L2!?
The Games is already downsizing. Give it a few more years and this will probably be the end result.
You can start preparing a "I predicted this 2 years ago" video now.
at 6:09 mark in the video, theres a guy that comes out of now where behind you and it scared the shit out of me. I thought you were a gonner
the games the only cool thing left, please dont kill this too
CrossFit gyms aren’t cool???
@@hillerfit Looks to me like *you* have worked out in your OWN gym/garage/owned box for a very long time. NO, as a regular affiliate MEMBER they are very uncool. Especially if you are experienced at weightlifting, sports, CrossFit and are not a dolt or sheep. Even worse if you are those things plus being a woman.