@@incognitobread5369 the superheroes that doesnt kill the villain at least doesnt want to kill their friends. Batman probably kill more superheroes than any other supervillain will ever do
@@love6ic202 yeah but batman specifically has such and incredibly lineup of villains all ready to tell their own unique story. A story about strength and persistence? Go with Bane. A story about mystery and intrigue? Go with riddler. Writers have way more options when it comes to the world of batman than they do with most other superheroes. If brave and the bold is anything to prove, even a more light-hearted batman can work too.
@@love6ic202 I think it depends cause you kinda have to roll with how that character is already established like you can't make batman suddenly all as bright as superman
@@love6ic202 true, looks at the DCEU, they got every character’s personality wrong. The actors were fine but the writing was so bad except for Man of Steel
You’re absolutely right about the whole “Batman didn’t save Superman.” Batman didn’t think Superman could save the day and beat the World Forger, or that they could inevitably defeat Perpetua, but Batman set aside his own logic and reasoning and put all his chips in Supermans corner because he wanted his friend to prove him wrong… which he did, because Superman is the embodiment of hope.
@@slowner295 bad example. It'd be more like leaving me for dead in a ravine and assuming I'd never get out, versus climbing down there and killing me for certain.
@@sptflcrw8583 but bats wanted him to live, it's like putting him in the cave but having a misshapen ladder made of stone leading all the way up and hoping he can make the climb.
I think this applies to most of the old superheroes where they have a writer that completely doesn't understand the charcters and botches them. I'm still recovering from that batman and batgirl scene
And it seems they just want to make a power fantasy, about a perfect being that can never loose or even strugle. That keeps happening in marvel and dc stories.
@@luxaeterna365 now a day most of all there never wrong and everyone around them is The only character that should be like this in my opinion is superman cause I just love Superman always joyful and good person a a titan of justice that will never waver his morale unless with a character like Darkseid
Sometime between "Nolan Batman" and "Batman x Superman" make it people forget what make him so great. He isn't just an edgy super hero, he cares about his town, friends, family, and like superman try to do the right thing to a bright future. The only difference between him and Kal El is that Bruce can't keep a happy face and bring joy, so he push himself to fear, but he still cares and loves his people... Somewhere and somehow people just forget this, and then make the edgy trait be the only thing for a character that used to be so much heart inside
@@jakmakjak3197 Exactly. It's basically the perfectly condensed version of all that Batman is. The edgy parts, the sweet parts, sad parts, and even the goofy parts. It embraces all of it. There's a reason they keep bringing Conroy and Hamill back to voice Batman and Joker. They are just that good at portraying every aspect of the characters.
His edgy side makes his emotional scenes feel more impactful. In justice league/batman beyond when batman stays with Ace to her dying moments was the reason he became my favorite hero
@@amadddd0 lol tell me you’ve only seen the Batman movies without telling me 🤣🤦🏽♂️ he cares ALOT if he didn’t he wouldn’t be puttin his life on the line to protect gotham & the ones he loves
@@kxngragnorok7524 that was actually one of the points they trying to make in the comments, that he always carries kryptonite in his utility belt, but even so a small amount doesn't kill supes just weaken him so I really don't see how batman win.
@@Potato_Samathey are noob batman fan also carry kryptonite gas and kryptonite ring then he can just body superman like a baby cause no way in hell superman can win without power he won't last 2 min with batman
@@Obantusthe main problem with Batman is easily fixed with his Bat Family, that DC constantly refuses to use in the movies. Batman that believes in People and is Sexy is Nightwing Edgy, Dark, and Violent Batman is Red Hood Detective and Quick Thinking Batman is Red Robin, which should've been called Crow Batman that constantly struggles with his Morals that travels the World is Damian They can each take the Title of Batman for One Off Batman movies, and the fans will absolutely love. You can have Bruce as himself either play hostage, or recovering from a bigger fight, or finally having a family and the rest are just filling in for him. With all the Ladies in the Bat Family, they can do their own thing, as long as they don't make it Women+ and treat them like actual Supers
@@Grandsunonothing in fairy tail compares to batman dodging darkseids lasers, winning almost every fight through "prep time", and HIM MOVING THE FUCKING SUN
@@Grandsuno mfs in fairy tail have magic and will jump mfs for a less of an uphill battle, mf batman dodges OMEGA BEAMS with his batflip and ballerina twirls
@Grandsuno the fact that people genuinely believe that if Superman wanted to kill batman, batman would still beat him is proof of plot armor. Superman doesn't even have to be on the planet to kill batman.
But my guy, Worldforger asked him to move some suns, and Batman either did or didn't because he did or didn't agree with Worldforger, and that turned out okay
@@saadinhalf For you maybe. But I'm not that versed in this comic. I literally have no idea what he's talking about. Plus, it cut mid sentence, like there was more to it. I also have no idea how or why batman moved the sun's and tricked the WorldForger. Nothing about this is making sense. And if that is his point, fine. But a little more explanation would be nice.
Your dude also missed the part where world forger asked how he got tricked and also the next panel of Superman thanking batman for setting upp the path for him
@@johnnyjacksted6528 You're arguing against something that wasn't said. What he most likely meant was that writers making too edgy and too powerful was bad.
I think one of my favorite iterations of Batman would have to be from “The Batman” from the mid 2000s. There, Batman started out as a jaded jackass who always decides to do things his way and be an asshole about it, but as time moved on, and he met more people, like Robin, Batgirl and Yin, he became less jaded and more open to others for help. He even helped start the Justice League, and convinced Superman to join instead of the other way around.
It's funny because I actually love this story arc. Batman though that fighting Perpetua was completely impossible and was willing to do whatever it took to avoid that, so he put Superman in an unwinnable situation so that if he does survive, if he does something Bruce though was impossible, he could do the impossible again and save everyone. It's a tale of Batman's logic verse his hope and in the end hope won.
Batman is my fav DC character but not because he can beat everyone, He can't beat Most of the heroes and villains on his own. I like him because he knows his limits and knows how to work around them instead of just giving up. In a world with Heroes like Superman, Batman just seems to be one of the few always truly risking it all for the sake of everyone including Superman.
yeah exactly, if he cant win a fight he just retreats and finds another way to approach it. Its like people are pretending that batman fans think that batman can beat superman in hand to hand combat. Obviously not, even if some bad writers try to convince you he can, he usually needs something to level out the playing field first before he even attempts to fight him.
One of the most annoying parts of Batman’s fanbase is that they really believe he can’t beat most heroes and villains on his own as long as he gets “prep time” that shit just ruins the character for me even more
There are two main things that bring Batman down as a character: 1.bad writing that makes him an overpowered dickbag 2.the fan base with the argument that Batman solos fiction with prep time
I like Batman when he's Batman, cause recently they just make him act more and more like Ironman. I want him to win with strategy, outsmarting his enemies, not putting on a mechasuit and beating the shit out of them.
Then you're backwards imo? Because the difference is to me; Batman has often had amnesty and will prevail even though he absolutely in the wrong or shouldn't and nothin comes of it Often. Batman's personally struggles, but that's usually his own design some are others. Tony very often loses Tony often tries to have an answer and doesn't. Tony usually is beaten Or vilified far more than anywhere near batman for his mistakes or attempts to make a selfish act or effort to better himself or the world. He Is actually correct in his assessments of situations, ,sacrifices his well being,company,pubic image In addition to his shaky health and mental state some of his own design as well. Tony is way more grounded than batman And has more graspable situations and limitations. But that's not to say tony doesn't pull off bs with suits. But with Each side has had very memorable morale dilemmas from each side i definitely trust tony INFINITY more than bruce. Injustice,.Batman all star and nth metal put the most sour taste in my mouth and the community basically gave it a turbo shot.
the character isnt bad, the writers are. Batman is easily comparable to spiderman in how memorable he and his rogues gallery is. Batman and spiderman as two sides of the same coin, and theyre the peak of their genre under the right writer. I get hating a character thats poorly written but when its someone as utterly massive as batman and who branches off in so many different interpretations, you simply just have to choose which batman you hate and which one you love. To simply put, batman is too grand to hate because there is no one solid batman.
@@Fuckyoutubecensorship1 im guessing you have a whirlwind of examples cause last time i checked that doesnt really happen. What, are you upset he made contingency plans to take down his teammates incase they get possessed for the 500th time?
Tough pills to swallow: Bat-Man is a support character who works best in the back lines because he will get his ass destroyed by justice league level threats
WHAT I’M SAYING. He should be the Oracle of the Justice League. If he’s on the field for whatever reason, it should still be either support, to take care of the canon fodder, save people, or do sneaky shit for the winning play.
Batman is among my favourite heroes in comics, but the writers need to do him right in order for his character to be actually good. Batman is a complex character that is simple to write, but if you step too far outside that box, everything falls apart. I love him in almost every iteration of the animated shows and movies because they did him right, and in my eyes, there’s no comic character better than Arkham Batman. Those games are amazing start to finish, even the offshoot Origins was amazing because the characters were so good I could care less about performance issues, that game also houses my favourite Bane.
This ^. But unfortunately it seems like the writers are not letting Batman grow as a better person, since they have this stupid idea that he's "cursed," and would never be happy.
I always think of there being two Batmans. The Detective Comics Bat that is a peak human crime fight keeping the streets safer and Justice League Bats that's a crazy prep God that stands toe-to-toe with universal threats. I prefer the former and it's best to keep them separate.
Well no their the same person it's just justice league Batman is more experienced and has been doing this work for years and learn new things their not seperate
Batman has devolved from a character to something for fans to project themselves onto. I still remember that black label book that depicted Batman with a small dick and his fan boys were FURIOUS!
Batman will do anything to achieve the surest and most secured victory; but he will always hope that the impossible better outcomes can still happen. He has faith in the other heroes of the universe, but he's also pragmatic and realistic enough to know that there are elements out there that can overcome them, possess them, or outright remove them at a moment's notice that he could not possibly fathom. That's the complexity of him. Batman is never wrong, but others are more correct.
The thing I'm starting to realise that become a thing for batman in TV, games and comics. Is the fact the man is a mary sue And his utility belt and batcave are complete deus ex machina. Like it was fun in brave and the bold because it was light hearted and campy.
Batman is far from a Mary Sue. The vast majority of Batman's encounters unfold in Batman meets usually a new villain he gets his ass beat by them he uses that experience and his prep time to think of a plan to defeat that person. If you actually look at most Batman TV shows he really defeats actual villains the very first time he meets them. And he usually has to think of a specific plan to stop that specific person. I would say his utility belt is only sometimes a deus ex machina but that's only in shows like Brave and the Bold. And other Batman shows his utility belt usually doesn't everything in it. And the reason I say it's only sometimes a deus ex machina is because in other shows that are not the braving about he has to literally create the thing that is hyper-specific to defeat that specific enemy after he already met them and was beaten. While in the Brave and the bold Batman just has hyper-specific crap in his utility belt for no reason but you already established that that show is supposed to be campy.
Becoming? He used to carry shark repellent and carousel reversing spray, the utility belt used to be a dues ex machina. It still is to an extent, but nowhere near what it was.
Batman can't be a gary stue by definition. Does everything go his way? No. Does he always have the answer? Not all the time? Does he have all the answers for the situation at hand. Most of the time he engages a threat he has at least some idea of what he's going into. He's not spider-man he doesn't swing directly into battle he has a standard set of gear and in his car he has a more equipment that specializes in things he might need.
Your close Coswalker, Batman is a Mary Sue, but that’s more of a result of him being an incel power fantasy, think about it, he’s always outsmarting everybody from people with literal four-digit I.Qs to omniscient beings with reality/world altering/destroying abilities, his utility belt has a gadget for e-very-thing, examples being the bat anti-shark spray (which everyone originally allowed at first cause it was campy, and never meant to be taken seriously at all, but at this point many may have to actually reconsider that), everybody across the toatality of existence not only knows but respects/fears him already, and every single solitary female that has ever heard of, or is anywhere near Batman you can bet money that, that gal is down bad for him, all the while Batman gets to stew in his edgeyness in his mansion, with his massive fortune, his personal butler, and no parental supervision (which while a tragedy for Batman himself cause of his origin story, is still something many of his fans would sell their left limb for), it is ridiculous how op the bat has been made over the years. Then again that’s the unfortunate side effect of what happens when corporations refuse to let a 50+ year old comic book franchise die
Y'all remember that one time Batman literally kept Dick in a cage in the Bat Cave and didn't feed him for months? Or made a Robin school, just so he can have replacement Robin's when the current one dies?
What I hate about Batman is this they keep getting people who hate Batman to write Batman just as they keep getting people who hate Superman to write Superman because Batman and Superman are supposed to be Paragons of good
Batman is not a paragon of good. Nor is he a superhero. At least not in the traditional sense. Keeping this short. Superman is designed to inspire people to be better. Batman is designed to instill fear in criminals. Batman does not save people from fires, etc. He is a crime fighter. There is a difference.
@@dkapow Batman is a superhero. Just because you don't think he is, doesn't remove that fact because he has to keep up with the Justice League, & if batman isn't a superhero then black panther isn't a superhero as well, nor is hawkeye, or Question. Here is in my book the best written batman in all of main line fiction Paul Dini version.
@volk551 *sigh* I wanted to keep this short. Let me rephrase. The difference between Superman and Batman is that Superman's 'goal' is to be a hero. He will do anything and everything that heroes do. Save people from natural disasters, fires, etc. Give speeches, charity events, and so on. In some versions, the s on his chest is a literal symbol for hope. Batman doesn't give af about being a hero. His goal is to fight crime. If he's fighting aliens/demons/anything other than fighting crime, it is because either it is a threat to his crimefighting or he is helping a friend (most often Superman). Batman does 'not' want to be admired. He wants to be feared. Hence, he is not a paragon of good (he specifically chooses not to be). Also, while other people might call him a superhero, that is not how he sees himself, nor is that his goal. He sees himself as a man on a mission. That's not my opinion. That is well documented, even by the great Tim Dini. Ignoring semantics, can you see where I am coming from?
@dkapow and yet batman would sit with a dying child holding her hand as she passes. He always tries to help the criminals that get put away and they get sent to Arkham Asylum, not black gate prison. The reason why we never see the good all Batman does is this that comic wouldn't sell who's gonna buy a comic where Bruce Wayne is openng a new children hospital, or a public out reach works?
@volk551 Just to save time. There is in universe and from the 4th wall. Are you saying that in universe, you believe that Batman is a paragon of goodness along the lines of Superman and Captain America? If you do, no amount of evidence will change your mind. From the 4th wall, it is debatable. Deadpool stopped a girl from committing suicide (same as Superman) but nobody is about to equate both as being paragon of good. As for being a superhero, in universe, Batman does not operate as a superhero and he is the first to say so. From the 4th wall, He is more than capable of superheroic feats, but it is debatable whether he is a superhero because he has many antihero qualities. Does that help?
I miss detective Batman. Not "I scanned this patch of ground, know the culprit, his family, the name of his first pet, and his credit card number," but actually searching for clues to see WHY someone is doing what they're doing, to see the big picture in every encounter.
If I had CashApp or PayPal, I would pay double for a full video of extra context and extra detail about this explanation. Mostly because most of this was more about talking about the details in one comic, and doesn't necessarily into full detail about his actual dislike for Batman (and ironically, he takes Batman's quotes from the comic out of context himself, as Bruce was saying he gave Clark the chance to prove him wrong, hoping he could). "As time goes on, they missed the point of Batman." Like 1, what's the point then? What do YOU think the point is? You didn't even go over that. 2, if that's the case, then the writers would've also lost the point to Superman. Or Wonder Woman. Or Captain America, Spider-Man, etc. Basically any comic book character (or hell, fictional character in general) who has a crazy/long history. Besides, a BURNING HATE for Batman? No way. Either D's capping for the sake of hate views, reading the wrong comics involving Batman, or not paying attention to context HIMSELF.
But he still moved the suns to his location. World Forger "reading Batman's feelings" isn't the same as mind reading. Batman wants to kill every criminals as much as Punisher does, but he doesn't, since it goes against everything that he fights for. He was planning on saving Superman, he was stalling for Superman to return by pretending to fight the League while talking to them, when in fact, he's actually communicating with Clark, as shown in Justice League #25 page 11-16. Sure he did try to kill Superman, but what was he supposed to do at the moment? World Forger has the power to overpower everyone, and it wasn't until he gave Batman the Final Batsuit, made of Element X, did Batman start planning on saving Superman.
The problem of modern writers Batman is that a lot of writers write him As a super dark brooding asshole who Who doesn’t trust anybody because that’s what people expect it’s a bit of a stereotype of us character honestly I would much prefer if Batman was written like he is in that fan comic you know the comedy one and with all the Wayne family members I want the idea of Batman just being a good dad instead of the heartless bastard and everyone assumes he is
What batman truly is. Is a troubled man, who is willing to risk his life for a child's smile. Who will sit down next to a dying child, hold her hand and assure her she isnt alone
@@DaGamingMagala They were able to write a good Batman in the Justice League animated series. In fact, Batman comforting a dying child came from that series.
Batman has a 'contingency plan' to take out/incapacitate his fellow heroes if they go rogue/ step out of line, yet still puts Joker in Arkham despite having a body count of hundreds/thousands
Context is a thing a lot of fans of a lot of characters forget about. My favorite example of this is Wolverine fans fully believing he can regenerate from a single drop of blood while fully ignoring the context of how that was able to happen.
The issue with Batman is his Writers and Fans. Another example of Fans and Writers ruining a character is Shadow the Hedgehog. Screw it, the entire Sonic franchise as a whole has been screwed over by fans and incompetent writers.
@@MugenEclipse Lancelot was good, I'll give you that. And honestly, I'm thankful the comics canonized multiple timelines existing [pretty much every Sonic comic book series has them] so I can take large amounts of copium to try and convince myself Shadow being more edge than character is an alternate tineline from the Shadow I spent hours dying as in Sonic Adventure 2. [I absolutely sucked at Sonic Adventure 2]
@@Kaylee-Bear Ngl I even liked some versions of him from "shadow the hedgehog" because he was only full edge when he was objectively evil. But shit like him being the reason infinite even exists is straight up stupid, he's not that much of an uncaring creature because depending on the game, the whole point is him being a lot more human/personable
@@MugenEclipse yeah! Shadow had some pretty awesome development in his own game. It's a shame the game was hard and wasn't executed well. [that Sonic race in one of the heroic pathways legit made me want to throw a controller. I couldn't beat it before my GameCube decided it die on me] And I agree, Shadow was supposed to be the more realistic character - the one that's been touched by tragedy and is motivated by his past but is still effected by it. He's someone Sonic could've easily turned into if he let bad circumstances get to him too much, but he's still not an irredeemable edgelord who doesn't care for others - there's still hope for him. I just wish the writers knew what they were doing.
@kennylunacy How is it awkward? "It's not clever" Self advertising to help u get ur point across? So u generate more views using past info to better make ur current point? "It's something anyone can do" I... don't remember saying they couldn't? I mean, if u got a good grade/did sumn good/won a gold medal, u would still want ur props, despite dozens coming b4 u that have done it too right?
There are 2 kinds of Batman fans: The ones that think he’s a god that can beat anyone if he has 0.37 battoseconds of prep time The ones that defend him on literally everything he does
Batman is supposed to be the Symbol of Hope. Not Vengeance. So it breaks my heart, when i see people describe him as Edgy "If the Batman you picture cannot comfort a crying child, then that's just the Punisher in a funny hat"
It’s times like these that make me glad I don’t read comics, with such a sheer amount of adaptations on a character like this a lot of peoples different views on Batman bleed into their writing for better and for worse. I like my animated Batman as it’s a bit more focused imo
Really you just need to avoid team up stories, in comic books that's when characters face major nerfs and buffs. Solo stories are your best bet to actually find good stories with compelling characters
@@jackcassidy9963 honestly that makes sense, I’ve never really enjoyed how a lot of comics seem to give characters grand feats not as a means of story telling but as a means of duck measuring.
@@jackcassidy9963 But the JL story in the video was actually a good story of Batman. He realized that He couldn't do anything and put all of his trust in Superman and Hoped Superman would save the day. The video maker just didn't understand the story.
This is the problem with Western Comics tbh. Something that's not the case in Japanese Mangas and Animes which makes Japanese Anime and Mangas better because they're consistent. It's literally just one person who makes their own story. That's it. 😂 When it comes to consistency through one writer with an idea, Japan has it in the bag.
What confuses me about this is that I'm pretty sure that most(?) of batman's stories should take place in a Gotham that would more likely than not have a death penalty
@@BIackViper They probably do (I know Blackgate prison did have a gas chamber in Arkham Origins) electric chair too. The issue with Gotham is that it's heavily corrupt. In the animated series that was probably the biggest issue with Gotham, almost every business had some kind of mob behind it and politicians and police were bribed a lot. Some people say that Batman created super villains like the Joker because he took out the corrupt element in Gotham. In my opinion that might be half true at best.
1 year late and that is a common thing people hate batman for, not the fucking gotham law system where they refuse to put any of these mfs to death after they tried to nuke/chemical gas gotham for the 5th time
As a diehard Batman fan, Im also not delusional to the amount of BS that comes with the character. One of the things that frustrates me most about Batman is his own self righteousness and how he cant see past his own selfish desires and thoughts. In the new story arc of Gotham Wars, Catwoman is running the criminal underground and crime is almost nonexistent, yet Batman wants to put a stop to her because he doesnt believe her methodology is how things should be done. This, despite the fact that the rest of his entire Bat Family agrees and sides with Catwoman. Its not even like shes killing anyone. So Batman is willing to fight his entire family, and stop Catwoman, even though the citizens of Gothams lives are finally safe and crime rates are extremely low, just because he doenst like how shes doing it. Even though he leavess nearly everyone he encounters either comatose, or with an exceedingly high hospital bill that damn near forces them back into crime just to pay it off. As much as I like Batman, he is his own worst enemy, and at this point only keeps crime alive so that he can stay Batman because otherwise he would just be Bruce Wayne, and he doesnt want that. In the same comic he literally says that some crime shouldnt be allowed while others are still illegal under Catwomans reign because he thinks all crime should be illegal with no exceptions. Meanwhile this man freely lets criminals go all the time either to be his informants or because hes sleeping with them, aka Catwoman.
Finally got a chance to watch Batman The Brave and the Bold and hands down it’s probably my favorite Batman series. The Animated series is awesome, don’t get me wrong, but I just loved Brave and the Bold. Getting to see comic book characters you’d probably never get a chance to see make it to TV to fight crime with Batman. Sad it never got the love it deserves.
Speaking as a Batman fan, you're absolutely right. He has so much plot armor now that I don't find his newer stories all that interesting. I like a more raw, realistic take on the character, not a demigod that can survive a fall from space through the power of comic bullshit.
Honestly fair enough. And that’s coming from someone who’s favourite super hero is Batman. But the thing is I love Batman when he’s done right. When he’s a down to earth crime fighter he’s usually much better. When he’s punching superman to a pulp with little to no effort or ravaging across apocalypse beating everything up, that’s not Batman anymore and it’s not in his true character
It's what batman haters do. They take things out of context amd then procceed to ignore all the good stories but only talk about the bad stories. It's like the Iron Man haters who hate Tony bit only mention Cival War and Post Cival War stories.
I think a lot has come down to them not sticking to what the core of each superhero represents. superman is hope and an idealized being. someone godlike that just wants to be humans. it's the choice he makes. batman, is vengeance but more so it's discipline. he has raised himself to near super human levels. he's supposed to be the pinnacle of man but man is flawed. superman and batman are kind of ideas of what people wouldn't do with the power if they had it. it's why we see so many "evil superman" clones because everyone is so jaded they can't imagine someone having that power and not being scum. because that's what they believe they would be like. batman, is a human, he is angry, and everyone would be happy to beat up bad guys but know they would probably rather just kill them. so now all the jaded batman writers are making batman into something else entirely.
I'd argue that this story proves that while yes Bruce can be arrogant and not always the greatest, he knows this and he looks to the others to rein him in. Like the story said, he wanted supes to prove him wrong, and he did.
I love batman... but these "fans" and their "prep time excuse" kinda made batman a Mary Sue of the DC in my opinion, these so called fans always make up the most random scenarios that batman can use because of his "preptime".... its like when 2 kids are having a battle where they make stuff up just to void the first scenario Kid 1: I have the power to stop time Kid 2: but I have a device that can neglect you time powers Kid 1: but I also have powers that can deactivate any device Kid 2: but my device is made out of dark magic that doesn't allow that to happen... These made up reasonings is what I dont like about these so called batman fans, especially when they pin batman to another hero/villain... Flash can blitz through anything... except for batman of course Dr Manhattan can destroy anything... except batman of course... Superman can one punch anyone... Except batman... And they make the most random made up shite on why batman can't get hurt by these people... Don't get me wrong, I love batman, but I prefer batman that gets challenged and improves himself to beat the bad guy... not the batman that has prep time and is always prepared for some reason...
You sound like you're talking about actual children because 90% of the people I've heard defend Batman in any way have actually used Feats from Comics or movies that he's done to back up their claims. Also you don't know what a Mary Sue is. One simple thing this proves that, a Mary Sue wouldn't need prep time to defeat someone. They would win regardless of prep time Batman has been shown in a multiple iterations that he usually loses his first fight against villains he has never met before. That's like saying Iron Man is also a Mary Sue because Iron Man can make armor that has literally body to gods. Your literally claiming strategic planning with knowledge of your enemy makes you a Mary Sue. The reason people use the prep time argument is because that is basically how Batman wins his fights he uses prep time to exploit someone's weakness to defeat them usually on the second encounter. And then after that point if that villain is like a common person that they fight a lot he will usually keep something in his utility belt that will allow him to fight that person easier in the future. This is why Batman struggles so much against villains the first time he fights them but not later on. If Batman fought superman, flash or Martian Manhunter for the first time he would lose and if it was a fight to the death he would die. But those fights are never really framed in that way. People usually take the current iteration of the two characters and think about what would happen if they fought and the issue is the current iteration of Batman and most superheroes or villains is that he met them before and he knows their power set and weaknesses. Mary Sue's are characters who don't struggle at all they don't need prep time because they're good at everything the first time every time.
@@Grimjr7 I see your argument but it has some flaws in it. First, no one knows what Mary Sue means. Not really. Originally, it only applied to characters written in fan fiction. A canonical character like Batman couldn’t have been a Mary Sue when the term first showed up. Now, it means a vaguely perfect character. Batman is vaguely perfect. Second, he doesn’t keep a simple way to beat common opponents on hand though. Take Bane. First meeting, Bane broke his back. Second meeting, Batman destroys Bane with the literal powers of Superman. Every meeting after that, Batman is just good enough to beat Bane with no new gear or tricks. Third, and last, Batman’s prep time is explicitly factored into his ability to win fights. It, along with being rich, are his main “superpowers” at this point. Most people that argue this would make taking prep time from him the same as taking Flash’s super speed. It makes no real sense but that is how they do it.
@@Grimjr7 i agree with you about some fans are children.... just talking out of their mouth... but what surprises me is how many these children are... especially the ones that say batman is "always" ready... And i even saw a poll here on youtube about who would win... Batman or the entire DC universe? Guess who won with a landslide victory of more than 80%.... Yup, Batman...
I think that something people miss in main DC timelines is that Batman has a weird trust in Superman. Every time something goes wrong that Batman can't handle, he generally has a thought of now Superman will find away. Superman, in turn, has the same level of trust in Batman, knowing that when he can't or won't handle something, Batman will. Fans and some writers lose this in the hunt for edgier more modern content. I think that one of the few comics that realy spell out this trust in very stark terms is "Batman: The Devastator." Batman says I trusted you. You gave me and everyone hope that your way was the better way. It's really the truth we all want Superman yo be right but like Batman we live in a real world that's not perfect but always want it to be.
The other Batmans just don’t hit like BTAS, JLU, and the version from the Arkham series of video games. Other than 1 or 2 animated movies, I haven’t been a fan of the modern takes of Batman.
They'll push batman so far that the things he does isn't even human. The best part of him is that he's human but when you make him survive an orbital drop because he had prep time I just feel like it's just dumb at that point.
For me it just depends on the story. Batman usually works really well in grounded solo stories. When they put him in these big events they just turn the BS levels up to a thousand.
Batman’s prep time is like saying that 2 + 2 = 4, it’s an infinite scapegoat, his “prep time” can only go so far until it gets boring as hell, Superman will kill Batman before he even has time to process a thought on how to kill him, Kryptonite isn’t even a “solution” because it weakens but doesn’t incapacitate him at all.
@@morganmiller41 but that's exactly the problem though it's the writing and the different versions so why does he hate a character in totality because of a version of the character he doesn't like. That's like saying I hate all versions of Superman because of Injustice when all versions of Superman have nothing to do with Injustice Superman. The question was why does he have such a hate for Batman not why does he have such a hate for that specific version of Batman. But it seems like his hate comes from a specific version of him but he applies it to all of them.
@@Grimjr7 he never said he hates all batman he literally says he likes brave and the bold and beyond Ps. I hate all superman cuz of what did to Shazam in injustice stepped straight into homelander territory
jar jar binks dw cailou chris thorndyke amber sisu namari jubilee crash and eddie Brooke sid the sloth pretty much every character on family guy anais nicole Watterson steven universe richard Watterson rose tico princess elise princess bubblegum the teen titans of teen titans go tweety bird the ewonks morty smith Mary jane watson in the sam rami trilogy c3po the list goes on
Basically batman has had the most successful dc movies so the toxicity in his fan base feels worse than others-though every hero is problematic as hell, by design, as wonderful escapism. I love it. Let them fight.
Did Superman save himself? Yes & No. Did Batman move the Suns? Yes he did. Did Batman admit that he believed that Alpheus was right? Yes. But there’s something you looked over Classic Man D, Batman used the Final Batsuit to call out to Superman to push forward to prove him wrong and reach the suns. So although Clark did saved himself, it’s just that Batman did actually help a bit to bring him home, it’s just that Superman did most of the heavy lifting, as shown in Justice League (2018) Issue 25. Who do you think sent Clark those thoughts of his father, son and the other members of the Justice League with the lanterns? Plus he knew that Clark when given the opportunity, would push himself to save the day. Why? Because Batman knows that Superman is a symbol of Hope, which he has stated he knows already, as shown in Batman (2016) Issue 36. It was similar to when Ultra Humanite in Justice League “Injustice Gang” played as a double agent to warn the Justice League about the bomb that was put inside the Watchtower, before it exploded. If you want a version of Batman to hate, trust me, I got options for you. Batman from “All Star Batman and Robin” and the “Spawn/Batman” crossover comic created by Frank Miller. Batman from the “New Batman Adventures”, “Justice League”, “Justice League Unlimited” and “Batman Beyond” series; read Broken Bird (Batman Beyond 2.0). Trust me these are Batmen you can truly hate.
Counter point batman could have litteraly just removed the suns from superman. Instead Batman tested Supermans resolve to do the right thing. Finally the point of batman is to analyze the situation and come up with solutions. Batman is solely focused on his mission to stop crime that if his "friends" show any sign of turning evil he will stop them. It's litteraly been like that since the beginning.
My main complain about Batman is: The huge amount of plot armor he gets with "prep time" and he missed the point of being the only human without powers that need to update himself with intelligence and gear to basically a omniscient being who can defeat anyone
Wait but aren't you ignoring the fact that batman did betray world forger? Wouldn't that mean batman did help in the situation. If superman saved himself then why is world forger blaming batman?
I only like batman because he beats up criminals refuses to kill them but doesn't care about giving them permanent brain damage , gets hella bitches because he's a millionaire, he classic and he makes no sense as a hero but he's just there like whts good.
Tbh I feel like he's lacking a bit of that cool, mysterious,omnipresent creature of the night vibes in favor of brooding, angsty edginess in recent times.
Joker wishes he was as obsessed with batman as some of his fans are
Joker got Batman to forgive joe chill, just so Joker could be Batmans worse enemy.
Joker is: he would actually take the time to read the comics
@Note yup
I mean all of us as a collective are more obsessed with him than the joker
@@thenexus7343 Joe Chill being his parents' killers, correct?
Batman sees psychopath murderer: 👊😕
Batman sees nice friendly alien: 🔫😡
Wdym superman is like a brother to batman
@@pizzatime4204 bruh. He tried to kill superman more than anyone of his villains. Lmao. Batman sheep.
@@pizzatime4204 yeah in the same way how Bruce was a brother to owl man
@@TinglyCauliflower not a lot of heroes kill their villains why are you acting like only batman does that
@@incognitobread5369 the superheroes that doesnt kill the villain at least doesnt want to kill their friends. Batman probably kill more superheroes than any other supervillain will ever do
Batman can be great with the right writers basically
I mean isn’t that majority of heroes? It all depends on the writers.. he has a lot of amazing comic runs out there & a lot of meh/trash ones too
@@love6ic202 I think he means writers that can actually give batman limits because he's a HUMAN
@@love6ic202 yeah but batman specifically has such and incredibly lineup of villains all ready to tell their own unique story. A story about strength and persistence? Go with Bane. A story about mystery and intrigue? Go with riddler. Writers have way more options when it comes to the world of batman than they do with most other superheroes. If brave and the bold is anything to prove, even a more light-hearted batman can work too.
@@love6ic202 I think it depends cause you kinda have to roll with how that character is already established like you can't make batman suddenly all as bright as superman
@@love6ic202 true, looks at the DCEU, they got every character’s personality wrong. The actors were fine but the writing was so bad except for Man of Steel
You’re absolutely right about the whole “Batman didn’t save Superman.”
Batman didn’t think Superman could save the day and beat the World Forger, or that they could inevitably defeat Perpetua, but Batman set aside his own logic and reasoning and put all his chips in Supermans corner because he wanted his friend to prove him wrong… which he did, because Superman is the embodiment of hope.
Thats what I was thinking, for batman to go against his better judgement. I dont have the full context tho
So why does he hate him?
@@slowner295 bad example. It'd be more like leaving me for dead in a ravine and assuming I'd never get out, versus climbing down there and killing me for certain.
@@sptflcrw8583 but bats wanted him to live, it's like putting him in the cave but having a misshapen ladder made of stone leading all the way up and hoping he can make the climb.
@@Suraimukyatto No he didn't, he explicitly said he was hoping he didn't.
I think this applies to most of the old superheroes where they have a writer that completely doesn't understand the charcters and botches them. I'm still recovering from that batman and batgirl scene
And it seems they just want to make a power fantasy, about a perfect being that can never loose or even strugle. That keeps happening in marvel and dc stories.
Ahhh so you mean Zach Snyder batman.
So pretty much the entirety of the comic industry today
@@luxaeterna365 now a day most of all there never wrong and everyone around them is
The only character that should be like this in my opinion is superman cause I just love Superman always joyful and good person a a titan of justice that will never waver his morale unless with a character like Darkseid
@@painvillegaming4119 not necessarily lol
You need to be a voice actor for the way you delivered that
This needs more like 💯.gov
Delivered a whiny little bitch rant?
See it's not that easy, man. That must be one of the most overused sentences in any comments section
@@MorbidFayde did forget. "{Blank} deserves an Oscar/Emmy"?
@@Noone24484 not at all, that one's more forgivable though cause it sounds like a joke when you say it
Sometime between "Nolan Batman" and "Batman x Superman" make it people forget what make him so great. He isn't just an edgy super hero, he cares about his town, friends, family, and like superman try to do the right thing to a bright future. The only difference between him and Kal El is that Bruce can't keep a happy face and bring joy, so he push himself to fear, but he still cares and loves his people... Somewhere and somehow people just forget this, and then make the edgy trait be the only thing for a character that used to be so much heart inside
People need to watch batman: the animated series
@@jakmakjak3197 Exactly. It's basically the perfectly condensed version of all that Batman is. The edgy parts, the sweet parts, sad parts, and even the goofy parts. It embraces all of it. There's a reason they keep bringing Conroy and Hamill back to voice Batman and Joker. They are just that good at portraying every aspect of the characters.
Idk Batman beats up shit, and is an expert at it. He deals with trauma of what he lost and throws hands. I really dont see him caring about much else
His edgy side makes his emotional scenes feel more impactful. In justice league/batman beyond when batman stays with Ace to her dying moments was the reason he became my favorite hero
@@amadddd0 lol tell me you’ve only seen the Batman movies without telling me 🤣🤦🏽♂️ he cares ALOT if he didn’t he wouldn’t be puttin his life on the line to protect gotham & the ones he loves
I understand what you mean the other day I saw poll with Batman vs Superman (no prep time) and people still chose Batman 💀they're out of control
Batman would win
Batman alway prepared for superman
@@kxngragnorok7524 that was actually one of the points they trying to make in the comments, that he always carries kryptonite in his utility belt, but even so a small amount doesn't kill supes just weaken him so I really don't see how batman win.
@@Potato_Samathey are noob batman fan also carry kryptonite gas and kryptonite ring then he can just body superman like a baby cause no way in hell superman can win without power he won't last 2 min with batman
Don’t argue with these Batman fanboys, they hardly ever think with their brains
The thing is the writers need to remember that batman and super man aren't enemies they work so well together. Look at worlds finest
That slapped
Well tbh I don't really like this series. Serious batman is so good. Comedic batman just feels wrong
In the DCAU they were best friends and it was awesome.
@@Obantusthe main problem with Batman is easily fixed with his Bat Family, that DC constantly refuses to use in the movies.
Batman that believes in People and is Sexy is Nightwing
Edgy, Dark, and Violent Batman is Red Hood
Detective and Quick Thinking Batman is Red Robin, which should've been called Crow
Batman that constantly struggles with his Morals that travels the World is Damian
They can each take the Title of Batman for One Off Batman movies, and the fans will absolutely love. You can have Bruce as himself either play hostage, or recovering from a bigger fight, or finally having a family and the rest are just filling in for him.
With all the Ladies in the Bat Family, they can do their own thing, as long as they don't make it Women+ and treat them like actual Supers
Batman is debatably the most plot armored fictional character in existence.
Have you ever read Fairy Tail?
@@Grandsunothey at least have powers
@@Grandsunonothing in fairy tail compares to batman dodging darkseids lasers, winning almost every fight through "prep time", and HIM MOVING THE FUCKING SUN
@@Grandsuno mfs in fairy tail have magic and will jump mfs for a less of an uphill battle, mf batman dodges OMEGA BEAMS with his batflip and ballerina twirls
@Grandsuno the fact that people genuinely believe that if Superman wanted to kill batman, batman would still beat him is proof of plot armor. Superman doesn't even have to be on the planet to kill batman.
I know yiu mostly do shorts, but I feel this deserves a full video to thoroughly explain. I got very little from this short.
But my guy, Worldforger asked him to move some suns, and Batman either did or didn't because he did or didn't agree with Worldforger, and that turned out okay
He literally knocked down one of the pillar arguments for Batman’s essentially being a god- there’s very little to not understand
@@saadinhalf For you maybe. But I'm not that versed in this comic. I literally have no idea what he's talking about. Plus, it cut mid sentence, like there was more to it. I also have no idea how or why batman moved the sun's and tricked the WorldForger. Nothing about this is making sense. And if that is his point, fine. But a little more explanation would be nice.
@@ibannash that’s fair I didn’t consider that
Same boat. Need to read the comic. Its a good push to engage the audience tho
Batman chose hope over his own logic because Batman knew Superman his best friend would do the impossible.
Batman literally moved the suns for Superman
@@jessicapinkman-hd4bw Because he had no choice. He was blackmailed too. So he tried it but hoped Superman would prevail.
So you don't hate Batman himself. You just hate how he's been interpreted as of late.
All Batman did was put his faith in his friend against all odds, even though he didn’t personally think he could win
My dude, he literally just showed how Batman helped him by moving the suns away.
Your dude also missed the part where world forger asked how he got tricked and also the next panel of Superman thanking batman for setting upp the path for him
@@carlosrod100there also batman using his final batsuit to help
Bat man was perfectly summed up by Damien in injustice 2.
"You rather fight your friends than your own problems"
"They miss the point of Batman" 👍
I think this is just a case of the writers not understanding the character
Understand what? That he’s supposed to be perfect according to you guys?
@@johnnyjacksted6528 You're arguing against something that wasn't said. What he most likely meant was that writers making too edgy and too powerful was bad.
I think one of my favorite iterations of Batman would have to be from “The Batman” from the mid 2000s. There, Batman started out as a jaded jackass who always decides to do things his way and be an asshole about it, but as time moved on, and he met more people, like Robin, Batgirl and Yin, he became less jaded and more open to others for help. He even helped start the Justice League, and convinced Superman to join instead of the other way around.
thats my top 3 favourite batman
Another thing is that other villains could actually put paws on him and not get no diffed like the animated series
It's funny because I actually love this story arc. Batman though that fighting Perpetua was completely impossible and was willing to do whatever it took to avoid that, so he put Superman in an unwinnable situation so that if he does survive, if he does something Bruce though was impossible, he could do the impossible again and save everyone. It's a tale of Batman's logic verse his hope and in the end hope won.
Batman is my fav DC character but not because he can beat everyone, He can't beat Most of the heroes and villains on his own. I like him because he knows his limits and knows how to work around them instead of just giving up. In a world with Heroes like Superman, Batman just seems to be one of the few always truly risking it all for the sake of everyone including Superman.
yeah exactly, if he cant win a fight he just retreats and finds another way to approach it. Its like people are pretending that batman fans think that batman can beat superman in hand to hand combat. Obviously not, even if some bad writers try to convince you he can, he usually needs something to level out the playing field first before he even attempts to fight him.
One of the most annoying parts of Batman’s fanbase is that they really believe he can’t beat most heroes and villains on his own as long as he gets “prep time” that shit just ruins the character for me even more
There are two main things that bring Batman down as a character: 1.bad writing that makes him an overpowered dickbag 2.the fan base with the argument that Batman solos fiction with prep time
@@vivaraulitosame
@@Mr.bottle_episodethe only time it works if it’s Thomas Wayne batmt
I like Batman when he's Batman, cause recently they just make him act more and more like Ironman.
I want him to win with strategy, outsmarting his enemies, not putting on a mechasuit and beating the shit out of them.
How do you feel about the Batsuit that he wore in Arkham Knight video game?
Then you're backwards imo?
Because the difference is to me;
Batman has often had amnesty and will prevail even though he absolutely in the wrong or shouldn't and nothin comes of it Often.
Batman's personally struggles, but that's usually his own design some are others.
Tony very often loses
Tony often tries to have an answer and doesn't.
Tony usually is beaten Or vilified far more than anywhere near batman for his mistakes or attempts to make a selfish act or effort to better himself or the world.
He
Is actually correct in his assessments of situations, ,sacrifices his well being,company,pubic image In addition to his shaky health and mental state some of his own design as well.
Tony is way more grounded than batman
And has more graspable situations and limitations.
But that's not to say tony doesn't pull off bs with suits.
But with Each side has had very memorable morale dilemmas from each side i definitely trust tony INFINITY more than bruce.
Injustice,.Batman all star and nth metal put the most sour taste in my mouth and the community basically gave it a turbo shot.
@@tsnoob4669 1 yr late but wasnt he legit fighting a whole damn army in Arkham Knight. he needed it
@@frfrongod7402it was also a pretty normal suit and not Iron Man level like the original comment was talking about.
the character isnt bad, the writers are. Batman is easily comparable to spiderman in how memorable he and his rogues gallery is. Batman and spiderman as two sides of the same coin, and theyre the peak of their genre under the right writer. I get hating a character thats poorly written but when its someone as utterly massive as batman and who branches off in so many different interpretations, you simply just have to choose which batman you hate and which one you love. To simply put, batman is too grand to hate because there is no one solid batman.
Lol there both my favorites in the hero department in there respective universe
The difference is Spider-Man doesn't betray his friends like Batman does on a daily basis.
@@Fuckyoutubecensorship1 im guessing you have a whirlwind of examples cause last time i checked that doesnt really happen. What, are you upset he made contingency plans to take down his teammates incase they get possessed for the 500th time?
"Let's go back and read it together" PMSL That is why you're the 🐐😂😂😂😂
Tough pills to swallow:
Bat-Man is a support character who works best in the back lines because he will get his ass destroyed by justice league level threats
WHAT I’M SAYING. He should be the Oracle of the Justice League.
If he’s on the field for whatever reason, it should still be either support, to take care of the canon fodder, save people, or do sneaky shit for the winning play.
Batman is among my favourite heroes in comics, but the writers need to do him right in order for his character to be actually good. Batman is a complex character that is simple to write, but if you step too far outside that box, everything falls apart.
I love him in almost every iteration of the animated shows and movies because they did him right, and in my eyes, there’s no comic character better than Arkham Batman. Those games are amazing start to finish, even the offshoot Origins was amazing because the characters were so good I could care less about performance issues, that game also houses my favourite Bane.
This ^. But unfortunately it seems like the writers are not letting Batman grow as a better person, since they have this stupid idea that he's "cursed," and would never be happy.
Suicide Squad Kill the Justice League:
I always think of there being two Batmans. The Detective Comics Bat that is a peak human crime fight keeping the streets safer and Justice League Bats that's a crazy prep God that stands toe-to-toe with universal threats. I prefer the former and it's best to keep them separate.
My gripe with Batman was how could the same man struggle with the crime of ONE city but can solve multiple reality ending threats. It always irked me
Well no their the same person it's just justice league Batman is more experienced and has been doing this work for years and learn new things their not seperate
@@redninja3056 no, he does them simultaneously
@@SenpaiSketch-a-Lot why crime isn’t simple like that stopping one super villain isn’t gonna stop Gotham from being awful
Yeah like ones Sherlock Holmes the other might as well have lights saying male power fantasy here
Insert Peacemaker Batman rant:
The Red Hood movie dropped my love for Batman below sea level 😤
Batman has devolved from a character to something for fans to project themselves onto. I still remember that black label book that depicted Batman with a small dick and his fan boys were FURIOUS!
Batman will do anything to achieve the surest and most secured victory; but he will always hope that the impossible better outcomes can still happen. He has faith in the other heroes of the universe, but he's also pragmatic and realistic enough to know that there are elements out there that can overcome them, possess them, or outright remove them at a moment's notice that he could not possibly fathom. That's the complexity of him.
Batman is never wrong, but others are more correct.
The thing I'm starting to realise that become a thing for batman in TV, games and comics. Is the fact the man is a mary sue And his utility belt and batcave are complete deus ex machina. Like it was fun in brave and the bold because it was light hearted and campy.
Batman is far from a Mary Sue. The vast majority of Batman's encounters unfold in Batman meets usually a new villain he gets his ass beat by them he uses that experience and his prep time to think of a plan to defeat that person. If you actually look at most Batman TV shows he really defeats actual villains the very first time he meets them. And he usually has to think of a specific plan to stop that specific person. I would say his utility belt is only sometimes a deus ex machina but that's only in shows like Brave and the Bold. And other Batman shows his utility belt usually doesn't everything in it. And the reason I say it's only sometimes a deus ex machina is because in other shows that are not the braving about he has to literally create the thing that is hyper-specific to defeat that specific enemy after he already met them and was beaten. While in the Brave and the bold Batman just has hyper-specific crap in his utility belt for no reason but you already established that that show is supposed to be campy.
Becoming? He used to carry shark repellent and carousel reversing spray, the utility belt used to be a dues ex machina. It still is to an extent, but nowhere near what it was.
Batman can't be a gary stue by definition. Does everything go his way? No. Does he always have the answer? Not all the time? Does he have all the answers for the situation at hand. Most of the time he engages a threat he has at least some idea of what he's going into. He's not spider-man he doesn't swing directly into battle he has a standard set of gear and in his car he has a more equipment that specializes in things he might need.
Your close Coswalker, Batman is a Mary Sue, but that’s more of a result of him being an incel power fantasy, think about it, he’s always outsmarting everybody from people with literal four-digit I.Qs to omniscient beings with reality/world altering/destroying abilities, his utility belt has a gadget for e-very-thing, examples being the bat anti-shark spray (which everyone originally allowed at first cause it was campy, and never meant to be taken seriously at all, but at this point many may have to actually reconsider that), everybody across the toatality of existence not only knows but respects/fears him already, and every single solitary female that has ever heard of, or is anywhere near Batman you can bet money that, that gal is down bad for him, all the while Batman gets to stew in his edgeyness in his mansion, with his massive fortune, his personal butler, and no parental supervision (which while a tragedy for Batman himself cause of his origin story, is still something many of his fans would sell their left limb for), it is ridiculous how op the bat has been made over the years. Then again that’s the unfortunate side effect of what happens when corporations refuse to let a 50+ year old comic book franchise die
When poorly written
Y'all remember that one time Batman literally kept Dick in a cage in the Bat Cave and didn't feed him for months? Or made a Robin school, just so he can have replacement Robin's when the current one dies?
Wasn't the cage thing from the Dark knight returns universe not the main one?
That was from Frank Miller's awful and edgy take on Batman. That man was peak one hit wonder after Batman Returns
That sounds like some Rick and Morty shit
Pay no attention to the Robin in the cage...
That's literally non canon.
What I hate about Batman is this they keep getting people who hate Batman to write Batman just as they keep getting people who hate Superman to write Superman because Batman and Superman are supposed to be Paragons of good
Batman is not a paragon of good. Nor is he a superhero. At least not in the traditional sense. Keeping this short. Superman is designed to inspire people to be better. Batman is designed to instill fear in criminals. Batman does not save people from fires, etc. He is a crime fighter. There is a difference.
@@dkapow Batman is a superhero. Just because you don't think he is, doesn't remove that fact because he has to keep up with the Justice League, & if batman isn't a superhero then black panther isn't a superhero as well, nor is hawkeye, or Question. Here is in my book the best written batman in all of main line fiction Paul Dini version.
@volk551 *sigh* I wanted to keep this short. Let me rephrase. The difference between Superman and Batman is that Superman's 'goal' is to be a hero. He will do anything and everything that heroes do. Save people from natural disasters, fires, etc. Give speeches, charity events, and so on. In some versions, the s on his chest is a literal symbol for hope. Batman doesn't give af about being a hero. His goal is to fight crime. If he's fighting aliens/demons/anything other than fighting crime, it is because either it is a threat to his crimefighting or he is helping a friend (most often Superman). Batman does 'not' want to be admired. He wants to be feared. Hence, he is not a paragon of good (he specifically chooses not to be). Also, while other people might call him a superhero, that is not how he sees himself, nor is that his goal. He sees himself as a man on a mission. That's not my opinion. That is well documented, even by the great Tim Dini. Ignoring semantics, can you see where I am coming from?
@dkapow and yet batman would sit with a dying child holding her hand as she passes. He always tries to help the criminals that get put away and they get sent to Arkham Asylum, not black gate prison. The reason why we never see the good all Batman does is this that comic wouldn't sell who's gonna buy a comic where Bruce Wayne is openng a new children hospital, or a public out reach works?
@volk551 Just to save time. There is in universe and from the 4th wall. Are you saying that in universe, you believe that Batman is a paragon of goodness along the lines of Superman and Captain America? If you do, no amount of evidence will change your mind. From the 4th wall, it is debatable. Deadpool stopped a girl from committing suicide (same as Superman) but nobody is about to equate both as being paragon of good. As for being a superhero, in universe, Batman does not operate as a superhero and he is the first to say so. From the 4th wall, He is more than capable of superheroic feats, but it is debatable whether he is a superhero because he has many antihero qualities. Does that help?
I miss detective Batman. Not "I scanned this patch of ground, know the culprit, his family, the name of his first pet, and his credit card number," but actually searching for clues to see WHY someone is doing what they're doing, to see the big picture in every encounter.
this seems like a writers issue
Agreed, but when writers constantly fuck up a certain character it's possible for people to become apathetic or even hostile towards a character.
If I had CashApp or PayPal, I would pay double for a full video of extra context and extra detail about this explanation. Mostly because most of this was more about talking about the details in one comic, and doesn't necessarily into full detail about his actual dislike for Batman (and ironically, he takes Batman's quotes from the comic out of context himself, as Bruce was saying he gave Clark the chance to prove him wrong, hoping he could).
"As time goes on, they missed the point of Batman." Like 1, what's the point then? What do YOU think the point is? You didn't even go over that. 2, if that's the case, then the writers would've also lost the point to Superman. Or Wonder Woman. Or Captain America, Spider-Man, etc. Basically any comic book character (or hell, fictional character in general) who has a crazy/long history.
Besides, a BURNING HATE for Batman? No way. Either D's capping for the sake of hate views, reading the wrong comics involving Batman, or not paying attention to context HIMSELF.
But he still moved the suns to his location. World Forger "reading Batman's feelings" isn't the same as mind reading. Batman wants to kill every criminals as much as Punisher does, but he doesn't, since it goes against everything that he fights for.
He was planning on saving Superman, he was stalling for Superman to return by pretending to fight the League while talking to them, when in fact, he's actually communicating with Clark, as shown in Justice League #25 page 11-16.
Sure he did try to kill Superman, but what was he supposed to do at the moment? World Forger has the power to overpower everyone, and it wasn't until he gave Batman the Final Batsuit, made of Element X, did Batman start planning on saving Superman.
The problem of modern writers Batman is that a lot of writers write him As a super dark brooding asshole who Who doesn’t trust anybody because that’s what people expect it’s a bit of a stereotype of us character honestly I would much prefer if Batman was written like he is in that fan comic you know the comedy one and with all the Wayne family members I want the idea of Batman just being a good dad instead of the heartless bastard and everyone assumes he is
The one-time Batman is justified in wanting to take down superman (injustice) is the one time he refuses to kill him.
What batman truly is. Is a troubled man, who is willing to risk his life for a child's smile. Who will sit down next to a dying child, hold her hand and assure her she isnt alone
In reality its the justice league batman that is bad
@@DaGamingMagala yes
@@DaGamingMagala They were able to write a good Batman in the Justice League animated series. In fact, Batman comforting a dying child came from that series.
Batman has a 'contingency plan' to take out/incapacitate his fellow heroes if they go rogue/ step out of line, yet still puts Joker in Arkham despite having a body count of hundreds/thousands
Constantly, putting the Joker in Arkham only really happens in the Arkham games. In the comics, the Joker usually just escapes.
Batman works best in Gotham. He does not work as well as a world-saver.
Batman’s smart enough to know Clark can handle himself
Well one of my favorite things about Batman is that he is a rich asshole but yes the worst thing about Batman is his fandom it’s just💀
Same goes for Superman, they're much better in the comics and cartoons than they are in the movies.
Dude batman beyond was so good.
The way its worded makes me think he absolutely could have set it up to just kill him but didn't.
I hate it when everyone gets dumber whenever he's on screen so he can look cool
Context is a thing a lot of fans of a lot of characters forget about. My favorite example of this is Wolverine fans fully believing he can regenerate from a single drop of blood while fully ignoring the context of how that was able to happen.
I mean the man did bring a nigga back to life with his blood
Pretty much this, it’s not like anime where you can mention one thing and it makes sense with comics there are way too many variables to consider
The issue with Batman is his Writers and Fans. Another example of Fans and Writers ruining a character is Shadow the Hedgehog. Screw it, the entire Sonic franchise as a whole has been screwed over by fans and incompetent writers.
Shadow went from defensive amnesiac trying to live out his only friends dying wish to hyper emo who cares about nothing. Lancelot was good though.
@@MugenEclipse Lancelot was good, I'll give you that.
And honestly, I'm thankful the comics canonized multiple timelines existing [pretty much every Sonic comic book series has them] so I can take large amounts of copium to try and convince myself Shadow being more edge than character is an alternate tineline from the Shadow I spent hours dying as in Sonic Adventure 2. [I absolutely sucked at Sonic Adventure 2]
@@Kaylee-Bear Ngl I even liked some versions of him from "shadow the hedgehog" because he was only full edge when he was objectively evil. But shit like him being the reason infinite even exists is straight up stupid, he's not that much of an uncaring creature because depending on the game, the whole point is him being a lot more human/personable
@@MugenEclipse yeah! Shadow had some pretty awesome development in his own game. It's a shame the game was hard and wasn't executed well. [that Sonic race in one of the heroic pathways legit made me want to throw a controller. I couldn't beat it before my GameCube decided it die on me]
And I agree, Shadow was supposed to be the more realistic character - the one that's been touched by tragedy and is motivated by his past but is still effected by it. He's someone Sonic could've easily turned into if he let bad circumstances get to him too much, but he's still not an irredeemable edgelord who doesn't care for others - there's still hope for him. I just wish the writers knew what they were doing.
One of my favourite episodes the Music mister Death trap. With Black Canary
I like the part where he actually answered the question
I think its clever how u managedd to connect your previous vid to ur current vid.
That's mind of an awkward thing to say. It's not clever, it's something anyone can do...
@kennylunacy
How is it awkward?
"It's not clever"
Self advertising to help u get ur point across? So u generate more views using past info to better make ur current point?
"It's something anyone can do"
I... don't remember saying they couldn't?
I mean, if u got a good grade/did sumn good/won a gold medal, u would still want ur props, despite dozens coming b4 u that have done it too right?
There are 2 kinds of Batman fans:
The ones that think he’s a god that can beat anyone if he has 0.37 battoseconds of prep time
The ones that defend him on literally everything he does
I just like arkham batman.
where does that put me
Batman is supposed to be the Symbol of Hope. Not Vengeance. So it breaks my heart, when i see people describe him as Edgy "If the Batman you picture cannot comfort a crying child, then that's just the Punisher in a funny hat"
I usually don't respect Batman doing out of world stuff but classic Frank Miller's Batman pure street level has to be the best version of himself
Batman fans hate that Batman cuz he kills I believe. 😂
As a Batman fanboy
Yes
Yes he can fail
No he doesn’t beat everyone
But I will never give in to Batman failing
Bro said this like a man can't have doubts when the multiverse is in danger.
It’s times like these that make me glad I don’t read comics, with such a sheer amount of adaptations on a character like this a lot of peoples different views on Batman bleed into their writing for better and for worse.
I like my animated Batman as it’s a bit more focused imo
Really you just need to avoid team up stories, in comic books that's when characters face major nerfs and buffs. Solo stories are your best bet to actually find good stories with compelling characters
@@jackcassidy9963 honestly that makes sense, I’ve never really enjoyed how a lot of comics seem to give characters grand feats not as a means of story telling but as a means of duck measuring.
@@jackcassidy9963 But the JL story in the video was actually a good story of Batman. He realized that He couldn't do anything and put all of his trust in Superman and Hoped Superman would save the day. The video maker just didn't understand the story.
This is the problem with Western Comics tbh. Something that's not the case in Japanese Mangas and Animes which makes Japanese Anime and Mangas better because they're consistent. It's literally just one person who makes their own story. That's it. 😂 When it comes to consistency through one writer with an idea, Japan has it in the bag.
Tbh I was not expecting that response. I thought you hated him because he letting villains live like the Joker cost lives or something like that.
What confuses me about this is that I'm pretty sure that most(?) of batman's stories should take place in a Gotham that would more likely than not have a death penalty
@@BIackViper They probably do (I know Blackgate prison did have a gas chamber in Arkham Origins) electric chair too.
The issue with Gotham is that it's heavily corrupt. In the animated series that was probably the biggest issue with Gotham, almost every business had some kind of mob behind it and politicians and police were bribed a lot. Some people say that Batman created super villains like the Joker because he took out the corrupt element in Gotham. In my opinion that might be half true at best.
1 year late and that is a common thing people hate batman for, not the fucking gotham law system where they refuse to put any of these mfs to death after they tried to nuke/chemical gas gotham for the 5th time
As a diehard Batman fan, Im also not delusional to the amount of BS that comes with the character.
One of the things that frustrates me most about Batman is his own self righteousness and how he cant see past his own selfish desires and thoughts.
In the new story arc of Gotham Wars, Catwoman is running the criminal underground and crime is almost nonexistent, yet Batman wants to put a stop to her because he doesnt believe her methodology is how things should be done. This, despite the fact that the rest of his entire Bat Family agrees and sides with Catwoman. Its not even like shes killing anyone. So Batman is willing to fight his entire family, and stop Catwoman, even though the citizens of Gothams lives are finally safe and crime rates are extremely low, just because he doenst like how shes doing it. Even though he leavess nearly everyone he encounters either comatose, or with an exceedingly high hospital bill that damn near forces them back into crime just to pay it off.
As much as I like Batman, he is his own worst enemy, and at this point only keeps crime alive so that he can stay Batman because otherwise he would just be Bruce Wayne, and he doesnt want that. In the same comic he literally says that some crime shouldnt be allowed while others are still illegal under Catwomans reign because he thinks all crime should be illegal with no exceptions. Meanwhile this man freely lets criminals go all the time either to be his informants or because hes sleeping with them, aka Catwoman.
I blame a lot of this stuff in writers that don’t understand his character and inconsistencies between writers.
Finally got a chance to watch Batman The Brave and the Bold and hands down it’s probably my favorite Batman series. The Animated series is awesome, don’t get me wrong, but I just loved Brave and the Bold.
Getting to see comic book characters you’d probably never get a chance to see make it to TV to fight crime with Batman. Sad it never got the love it deserves.
Speaking as a Batman fan, you're absolutely right. He has so much plot armor now that I don't find his newer stories all that interesting. I like a more raw, realistic take on the character, not a demigod that can survive a fall from space through the power of comic bullshit.
Honestly fair enough. And that’s coming from someone who’s favourite super hero is Batman. But the thing is I love Batman when he’s done right. When he’s a down to earth crime fighter he’s usually much better. When he’s punching superman to a pulp with little to no effort or ravaging across apocalypse beating everything up, that’s not Batman anymore and it’s not in his true character
“They refuse to look at context”
*overlooks Superman thanking and agreeing with Batman on the next panel*
*proceeds to ignore what batman would continue on to say*
Ikr it irritates me he completely ignored the rest of the panel
Donate and debunk him if you can😂
Lol
I'm confused what was batman going to say.
It's what batman haters do. They take things out of context amd then procceed to ignore all the good stories but only talk about the bad stories.
It's like the Iron Man haters who hate Tony bit only mention Cival War and Post Cival War stories.
I get what you're saying but he's still my favourite DC hero.
I think a lot has come down to them not sticking to what the core of each superhero represents. superman is hope and an idealized being. someone godlike that just wants to be humans. it's the choice he makes. batman, is vengeance but more so it's discipline. he has raised himself to near super human levels. he's supposed to be the pinnacle of man but man is flawed. superman and batman are kind of ideas of what people wouldn't do with the power if they had it. it's why we see so many "evil superman" clones because everyone is so jaded they can't imagine someone having that power and not being scum. because that's what they believe they would be like. batman, is a human, he is angry, and everyone would be happy to beat up bad guys but know they would probably rather just kill them. so now all the jaded batman writers are making batman into something else entirely.
Batman used to be hope, hell even dark knight returns which has a out of character edgelord Batman portrays him as such
Marvel and DC just have to stop using these characters tbh. Make new stories with new characters. Batman and Superman have gotten tiresome.
I like the version of Batman in the Batman: Wayne Family Adventures comic. Very wholesome.
I'd argue that this story proves that while yes Bruce can be arrogant and not always the greatest, he knows this and he looks to the others to rein him in. Like the story said, he wanted supes to prove him wrong, and he did.
I’ve really been vibing with Superman lately. He’s so inspirational.
I love batman... but these "fans" and their "prep time excuse" kinda made batman a Mary Sue of the DC in my opinion, these so called fans always make up the most random scenarios that batman can use because of his "preptime".... its like when 2 kids are having a battle where they make stuff up just to void the first scenario
Kid 1: I have the power to stop time
Kid 2: but I have a device that can neglect you time powers
Kid 1: but I also have powers that can deactivate any device
Kid 2: but my device is made out of dark magic that doesn't allow that to happen...
These made up reasonings is what I dont like about these so called batman fans, especially when they pin batman to another hero/villain...
Flash can blitz through anything... except for batman of course
Dr Manhattan can destroy anything... except batman of course...
Superman can one punch anyone...
Except batman...
And they make the most random made up shite on why batman can't get hurt by these people...
Don't get me wrong, I love batman, but I prefer batman that gets challenged and improves himself to beat the bad guy... not the batman that has prep time and is always prepared for some reason...
You sound like you're talking about actual children because 90% of the people I've heard defend Batman in any way have actually used Feats from Comics or movies that he's done to back up their claims. Also you don't know what a Mary Sue is. One simple thing this proves that, a Mary Sue wouldn't need prep time to defeat someone. They would win regardless of prep time Batman has been shown in a multiple iterations that he usually loses his first fight against villains he has never met before. That's like saying Iron Man is also a Mary Sue because Iron Man can make armor that has literally body to gods. Your literally claiming strategic planning with knowledge of your enemy makes you a Mary Sue. The reason people use the prep time argument is because that is basically how Batman wins his fights he uses prep time to exploit someone's weakness to defeat them usually on the second encounter. And then after that point if that villain is like a common person that they fight a lot he will usually keep something in his utility belt that will allow him to fight that person easier in the future. This is why Batman struggles so much against villains the first time he fights them but not later on.
If Batman fought superman, flash or Martian Manhunter for the first time he would lose and if it was a fight to the death he would die. But those fights are never really framed in that way. People usually take the current iteration of the two characters and think about what would happen if they fought and the issue is the current iteration of Batman and most superheroes or villains is that he met them before and he knows their power set and weaknesses. Mary Sue's are characters who don't struggle at all they don't need prep time because they're good at everything the first time every time.
@@Grimjr7 I see your argument but it has some flaws in it. First, no one knows what Mary Sue means. Not really. Originally, it only applied to characters written in fan fiction. A canonical character like Batman couldn’t have been a Mary Sue when the term first showed up. Now, it means a vaguely perfect character. Batman is vaguely perfect. Second, he doesn’t keep a simple way to beat common opponents on hand though. Take Bane. First meeting, Bane broke his back. Second meeting, Batman destroys Bane with the literal powers of Superman. Every meeting after that, Batman is just good enough to beat Bane with no new gear or tricks. Third, and last, Batman’s prep time is explicitly factored into his ability to win fights. It, along with being rich, are his main “superpowers” at this point. Most people that argue this would make taking prep time from him the same as taking Flash’s super speed. It makes no real sense but that is how they do it.
@@Grimjr7 i agree with you about some fans are children.... just talking out of their mouth... but what surprises me is how many these children are... especially the ones that say batman is "always" ready...
And i even saw a poll here on youtube about who would win... Batman or the entire DC universe?
Guess who won with a landslide victory of more than 80%....
Yup, Batman...
I think that something people miss in main DC timelines is that Batman has a weird trust in Superman. Every time something goes wrong that Batman can't handle, he generally has a thought of now Superman will find away. Superman, in turn, has the same level of trust in Batman, knowing that when he can't or won't handle something, Batman will.
Fans and some writers lose this in the hunt for edgier more modern content. I think that one of the few comics that realy spell out this trust in very stark terms is "Batman: The Devastator." Batman says I trusted you. You gave me and everyone hope that your way was the better way. It's really the truth we all want Superman yo be right but like Batman we live in a real world that's not perfect but always want it to be.
Batman: I know to tried to kill but you are gonna be cool with this cuz my one rule is not to kill people.
"Batman always wins" & "prep time" nuff said.
Batman is a peak character unfortunately one comic issue won’t change that he also has many versions and incarnations
Ah, I thought you hated Batman, not the oversaturation of Batman. Gotcha...
Makes sense
The other Batmans just don’t hit like BTAS, JLU, and the version from the Arkham series of video games. Other than 1 or 2 animated movies, I haven’t been a fan of the modern takes of Batman.
"Batman is ruined by the writers."
Not even. It's JUST the insufferable fans, good writing or not.
Living proof on why Batman stories becames about a overly edgelord and the fans just roll with it? well:
Batman Who Laughs
They'll push batman so far that the things he does isn't even human. The best part of him is that he's human but when you make him survive an orbital drop because he had prep time I just feel like it's just dumb at that point.
Wait, so is it Batman, or is it the writer and fans?
Either he is a man with with human limitations and failings or he's a God with prep time he can't be both
I'm sorry but how is that supposed to be the reason you hate batman? 💀
You perfectly summed up my issue w Batman, he works best as a street-tier vigilante and detective not a godslayer…
For me it just depends on the story. Batman usually works really well in grounded solo stories. When they put him in these big events they just turn the BS levels up to a thousand.
But in this story, Batman was grounded. He couldn't do anything so he put his trust in Superman and hoped that Superman would save the day.
Batman’s prep time is like saying that 2 + 2 = 4, it’s an infinite scapegoat, his “prep time” can only go so far until it gets boring as hell, Superman will kill Batman before he even has time to process a thought on how to kill him, Kryptonite isn’t even a “solution” because it weakens but doesn’t incapacitate him at all.
It’s honestly weird to have this much hate towards a fictional character
the issue is more of the overall writing of batman since there are so many different versions
Nah people do that with everything fictional or not
@@morganmiller41 but that's exactly the problem though it's the writing and the different versions so why does he hate a character in totality because of a version of the character he doesn't like. That's like saying I hate all versions of Superman because of Injustice when all versions of Superman have nothing to do with Injustice Superman.
The question was why does he have such a hate for Batman not why does he have such a hate for that specific version of Batman. But it seems like his hate comes from a specific version of him but he applies it to all of them.
@@Grimjr7 he never said he hates all batman he literally says he likes brave and the bold and beyond
Ps. I hate all superman cuz of what did to Shazam in injustice stepped straight into homelander territory
I don't think it weird. It only weird if it consume your life lol.
Sadly both spider-man and Batman seem to having writers that don’t understand character
There is no such thing as a bad character, only a bad writer.
jar jar binks dw cailou chris thorndyke amber sisu namari jubilee crash and eddie Brooke sid the sloth pretty much every character on family guy anais nicole Watterson steven universe richard Watterson rose tico princess elise princess bubblegum the teen titans of teen titans go tweety bird the ewonks morty smith Mary jane watson in the sam rami trilogy c3po the list goes on
Basically batman has had the most successful dc movies so the toxicity in his fan base feels worse than others-though every hero is problematic as hell, by design, as wonderful escapism. I love it. Let them fight.
Did Superman save himself? Yes & No.
Did Batman move the Suns? Yes he did.
Did Batman admit that he believed that Alpheus was right? Yes.
But there’s something you looked over Classic Man D, Batman used the Final Batsuit to call out to Superman to push forward to prove him wrong and reach the suns. So although Clark did saved himself, it’s just that Batman did actually help a bit to bring him home, it’s just that Superman did most of the heavy lifting, as shown in Justice League (2018) Issue 25. Who do you think sent Clark those thoughts of his father, son and the other members of the Justice League with the lanterns? Plus he knew that Clark when given the opportunity, would push himself to save the day. Why? Because Batman knows that Superman is a symbol of Hope, which he has stated he knows already, as shown in Batman (2016) Issue 36. It was similar to when Ultra Humanite in Justice League “Injustice Gang” played as a double agent to warn the Justice League about the bomb that was put inside the Watchtower, before it exploded. If you want a version of Batman to hate, trust me, I got options for you. Batman from “All Star Batman and Robin” and the “Spawn/Batman” crossover comic created by Frank Miller. Batman from the “New Batman Adventures”, “Justice League”, “Justice League Unlimited” and “Batman Beyond” series; read Broken Bird (Batman Beyond 2.0). Trust me these are Batmen you can truly hate.
If you can't see your version of Batman comforting a crying child, it's the Punisher wearing a funny costume.
- Overly Sarcastic Productions.
Counter point batman could have litteraly just removed the suns from superman. Instead Batman tested Supermans resolve to do the right thing. Finally the point of batman is to analyze the situation and come up with solutions. Batman is solely focused on his mission to stop crime that if his "friends" show any sign of turning evil he will stop them. It's litteraly been like that since the beginning.
My main complain about Batman is: The huge amount of plot armor he gets with "prep time" and he missed the point of being the only human without powers that need to update himself with intelligence and gear to basically a omniscient being who can defeat anyone
Wait but aren't you ignoring the fact that batman did betray world forger? Wouldn't that mean batman did help in the situation. If superman saved himself then why is world forger blaming batman?
Batman no longer feels human which kinda feels like it misses the point. Batman is great because he's moral not in spite of it.
I only like batman because he beats up criminals refuses to kill them but doesn't care about giving them permanent brain damage , gets hella bitches because he's a millionaire, he classic and he makes no sense as a hero but he's just there like whts good.
Tbh I feel like he's lacking a bit of that cool, mysterious,omnipresent creature of the night vibes in favor of brooding, angsty edginess in recent times.
Billionaire*, millionaire was so last year
-Bruce Wayne in arkham city or something